Dice Cheat for Axis and Allies

[ButchOhare1]

Is there someone at Infogrames that deals with Axis and Allies cd-rom? There is a functioning dice cheat now available on the internet. The on-line clubs are looking for a way to disarm this cheat. If there is someone here that can help us please reply.

[Game_General]

Butch is correct. We represent two ladder clubs, and the significance of this is real. While we play for fun.. the rating system is now jeapordized, over 4 years of developing a fair and balanced ladder system, as well as our fairly tight-nit community itself; not to mention the thousands of dollars and hours donated towards web hosting, database design, etc..

the ladder clubs

http://www.spring1942.com
http://www.balance-of-power.com

This is a very grave development.

The following is the read me file provided from one of the leaders at BOP. We can put anyone at infogrames in touch with them if a concerned programmer would like to obtain a copy of the cheat. Of course we will only provide the cheat to people at infogrames, so if you just want the cheat, dont bother to contact us.

Please assist us with this matter.

Respectfully

Game_General
AAPL JCOS/SPring 1942.com

-------------
The Readme.txt file
--------------

The AA Dice Cheat

Yes, its real. Yes, you now have it. Does this make you a bad person? Probably.

The cheat works reliably only in battles in which both sides have 6 or less units.

It modifies your dice on defense and attack. It cannot modify your opponent's dice.

It cannot be detected by any means short of someone checking your harddrive. Anyone who claims to have a detector is lying.

It does not matter if you are the host or not, nor how many people are playing.

The keys that control the cheat are Scroll Lock, Caps Lock, and Num Lock, along with their indicator lights. When all 3 lights are off, the cheat is disabled. When 1 or more is on, some configuration of the cheat is active. Changing which lights are on or off controls the functioning of the cheat while you are playing the game.

Each configuration involves 3 variables of the form: Of the first X dice, insure that Y of them roll a Z or less.

By default, the control keys have these settings:

Scroll Lock Only: Of the first 2 dice, at least 1 must roll a 1 or less.
Caps Lock Only: Of the first 1 dice, at least 1 must roll a 2 or less.
Num Lock Only: Of the first 2 dice, at least 2 must roll a 1 or less.
Scroll Lock & Caps Lock: Of the first 2 dice, at least 2 must roll a 2 or less.
Scroll Lock & Num Lock: Of the first 4 dice, at least 4 must roll a 3 or less.
Caps Lock & Num Lock: Of the first 3 dice, at least 3 must roll a 2 or less.
Scroll Lock, Caps Lock, and Num Lock: Of the first 3 dice, at least 3 must roll a 1 or less.

"Of the first" above means the first dice rolled each round of combat. For instance, say you attack 5 men with 5 men with Scroll, Caps, and Num all on. The rolls could look something like this Bold numbers are the guaranteed ones, others are just random examples:

Attacker: 1,1,1,4,5
Defender: 1,2,3,4,5
Attacker: 1,1,1
Defender: 6,1

All the configurations may be modified by the user by editing the aa.ini file in the Windows directory with Notepad or any other text editor. This file contains a section for each key and set of keys like SCROLL LOCK. Simply modify the values under the heading for the key(s) you wish to change. Set Enabled=0 under a heading to disable the cheat for that key or set of keys if you want to be able to use that key without enabling the cheat.

Warning: Be careful when modifying these values in the aa.ini file. In general, the more unlikely a the rolls you're asking for there, the longer it will take to modify each roll--a value such as of the next 6 dice, make all 6 roll 1's may slow down the game enough to lock it up. If you experience game slowdowns after modifying this file, edit it again and change the settings to something less improbably. Also, if a particularly unlikely setting is used, the cheat will cut off its search for those dice after a certain point set by the MaxAttempts value under General to avoid locking up the game, leaving you with only random rolls.

When modifying values in the aa.ini file, test the cheat in single player mode first to make sure you haven't asked for something too improbable.

Caveats:

In single player mode, both the player and the computer will gain the benefits of the cheat.
Sometimes changing which control keys are on will not affect the cheat settings until after the next battle.
If the cheat is on, be aware your opponent's anti-aircraft guns actually use your dice. If you the cheat on to roll 1's when you fly over your opponent's aa, expect to see your planes falling like rain. Also, because of the caveat above, it is best to turn off the cheat at least 1 battle before facing enemy aa.
The corollary to the above is your own aa don't take advantage of the cheat, since they actually use your opponent's dice.
The cheat does not affect Tech rolls for either side. It does affect your strategic bombing rolls, however, so best to turn it off before a SB run.

How It Works

A psuedo random number generator such as the one employed by AA represents a function of the form:

r=fseed_value, n

where r is the random number generated, f is a function, seed_value is some arbitrary number usually pulled initially from a computer's clock, and n is an integer incremented by 1 each time the function is called.

Being a function, every time seed_value and n are the same, the same r is returned. Thus if you know the function f, the seed_value, and n, you can know what r will be every time.

An example might be:

r=f1024, 0=5
r=f1024, 1=3
r=f1024, 2=4
...

Now, most people think that what goes on with AA dice is that one computer generates the dice, then sends them to the other computers. This is wrong. What is sent is only the seed_value, which both computers then use to generate the exact same dice--since they are using the same seed value, the same function f, and the same value for n. It is therefore impossible to directly modify dice rolls, as this would result in one computer seeing different dice rolls than the other, leading quickly to a lock up of the game.

What can be modified is the seed_value itself. The process for a small battle looks like this:

Attacker's Computer Defender's Computer
Seed_Value=GetTickCount
Seed_Value is sent to Defender's computer---------------->
Both Computer's use the function f
with seed_value, and with n=0 for the
first dice, n=1 for the 2nd, and so on,
to determine the attacker's dice results.
Seed_Value=GetTickCount
<------------------------------------------------Seed_Value sent to Attacker's computer
Both Computer's use the function f
with seed_value, and with n=0 for the
first dice, n=1 for the 2nd, and so on,
to determine the attacker's dice results.
Back to the top.

Now, a clear vulnerability of this system is the GetTickCount call above, which is used to generate the seed values for your rolls. As long as the seed values follow the rule of any clock, that each new number be greater than the previous number i.e., clocks don't run backwards or stand still, modifications of it cannot be detected in any way by the other computers.

The clear method to cheat, then, is to trap AA's calls to GetTickCount, a Window's function that returns the number of milliseconds since the computer was last rebooted, and then return to AA only numbers which, when used as seed values, will generate the desired results. This requires of course knowing what that function f is, which is known.

The cheat, then, resides between AA and Windows, and traps calls from it to GetTickCount. When it sees such a call, it does something like this psuedo code:

Ticks=GetTickCount;
Limit=Ticks+MaxAttempts;
whileTicksLimit;Ticks++
if LikeTheseDiceTicks break;
ReturnTicks;

where LikeTheseDiceTicks looks something like:
dice1=fTicks, 0;
dice2=fTicks, 1;
if dice1<2 & dice2<2 returnTrue else returnFalse;

MaxAttempts insures the value returned is never too far off from the actual system clock, which is important because GetTickCount is also used for timing animations, etc., in AA.

Note your system clock itself is never changed, it is only misreported to AA

[Eta_Beta_Pi]

I am also a member of the clubs the gentleman below is talking about.

This cheat is ruining on-line play.

The cheat works on intercepting the system clock call for the seed value used in rolling dice, so it is undetectable to the other player.

Please help us by patching the dice roller.

Thanks

[RussianBB]

I too would like to lend my support to the request for infogames to develop some sort of fix for this dice cheat. This challenging, fun, and (somewhat unfortunately) addictive game is a big part of my (and many others) leisure time. The development of this undetectable dice cheat will slowly (or maybe not so slowly) end the play of competitive Axis and Allies using the CD. Any help you could give us would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you,

RussianBB

[LionOfIreland]

I would like to add my support to this project as well. I realize that Axis and Allies is a fairly small game from the designer's perspective, but many of those of us who play this game buy many other games as well. A show of faith on the part of Infogrames would be greatly appreciated. I know that I personally will take this as a litmus test to see how "customer friendly" Infogrames as a company is.

This game requires a great deal of strategy, but is susceptible to dice. Even the most talented on-line players lose 25% of their games, mostly because of "bad dice" in very key battles. The biggest problem with the dice cheat is that now, even people who are known for their integrity in our community will have to worry about being accused of cheating when the dice are heavily in their favor, as sometimes happens.

I appreciate anything you can do to help us out.

LionOfIreland

[Soon_U_Die]

Ditto on what the guys above have said.

We are a community. We have carved out our little piece of bliss in cyberspace to competitively play a game we enjoy. Like all communities, ours is based upon respect and trust. Now, a very few people have introduced a cancer. It will spread mistrust and our community will die. You have the power to aid us. If you cannot afford to release a patch to fix a game you no longer support...then at least release the source code to the community and we will fix it ourselves. Thanks for your understanding.

SUD

[bad_hombre]

I too am a member of the aforementioned clubs. I think the previous posts have described the problem pretty well. I as well would greatly appreciate any assistance you can provide in restoring the integrity of Axis & Allies play online. This is the greatest cd rom I've ever played and get much enjoyment from it. Please help!!!!

[DarkAprentice]

Same as above. Here a couple more Clubs that would be effected.

http://www.aamc.net/

http://www.axisandallies.net/

Help us out!

[Pitt_10]

I am also a member of the clubs listed above. Any assistance you can provide would be greatly appreciated. As unfortunate as it is that someone felt the need to develop such a cheat, we hope you can help us return fair game play back to our clubs.

Thank you for your assistance

[jjsave]

Please help us with a patch for Axis and Allies. There are thousands of folks like us who play this game with a passion. Since the intro of the CD version, it has made it easier and more accessable to play this great game. (although it has its 'bugs')

All the clubs would greatly appreciate your help!!

Jeffrey Jones
Spring1942

[kurt3892]

Please help us defeat this dice cheat and allow our clubs to continue to exist in their present forms.

And if you need playtesters for Axis and Allies II please don't hesitate to contact us. You would have a good product here if a non-buggy version was created, let us help you succeed. :D

http://www.spring1942.com

kurt3892

President Spring1942

president@spring1942.org

[BannSidhe]

the cheat will destroy our online communities probably quite rapidly. Fixing this with new code will instill a strong positive feeling for your company among a great many of us.

[artisticten]

The existence of this dice cheat will destroy the ladder system of play.

We are a dedicated community of players willing to do whatever is needed to counter this cheat.

You have heard from all the major cd clubs here.

If money is an obstacle, please let us know....we can request donations from our members to offset this cost if need be.

Hopefully this thread will at least garner a response.

Art-

[alansc1]

yes please help infogrames it is a must 4 this comunity to survive.i am a 4 to 5 year gamer at this game and have spent more hours than u could even imagine playing this game but i cant contine untill there is a fix. i would love to see a more bug free and new axis and allies 2 myself and we all would help as we need your help please . alansc1

[SargeantShultz]

I am also a concerned citizen of balance of power, and I also wish to have some sort of patch made to combat this dice cheat. I have run tournaments of axis and allies, and I know from issues arising that dice can be a very sensitive issue for most. As well, I will not be hosting another tournament until surrounding issues of dice cheats are worked out, because as soon as we have upsets, (which always happen), there will bound to be messy issues that call into question cheating, and the whole affair is not worth the effort as an organizer because these events often take 6 months to fully complete.

Issues surrounding dice and such have been a sore spot for a long time now, as the dice generator supplied in A&A is fishy at best. Since everyone has to live with the same quirks, it makes it bearable. I would hope that not only would you address this dice cheat issue, but also perhaps rebuild the dice generator to give more statistically accurate rolls.

An example may be to generate a number from 1 to 8 and discard results of 1 and 8 and assign the remaining 6 numbers to the standard die rolls. This would perhaps alleviate some of the statistical problems, and would go a long way in impressing upon several thousand enthuiastic software customers.

I believe the core people of these clubs represent the most hardcore gamers, and as such your best customers or target market. If you could see fit to invest some resources in this, it would go a long way in impressing upon these people as to your proactive policy. Needless to say, proactive policy is quickly becoming a very important issue in what gamers look for before they invest their money in new software.

As infogrames represents some very impressive software, and I am sure wishes to impress a good name upon it's users, this issue should be a minor one to deal with to the satisfaction of all parties concerned.

I am looking forward to a timely resolution to this issue, and I have every confidence that Infogrames can deliver on this issue.

Regards

J. Stuart Moir
a.k.a SargeantShultz

[Axis_Roll]

I also am a member of the online clubs Spring1942 and Balance-of-Power.

I am a programmer as well. If I understand the random number generator and how it functions, a unique seed gives a unique random returned value.

Presently, the system clock is called upon to provide a random seeding. This is the only method of generating the seed value. If there was at least one more method of creating a random seed value for the random number generator, then randomly selecting from the sources of the seed values will render any dice cheat almost worthless.

Perhaps a random list of numbers inside the program, with a random starting place into this list will give a random seed value.

All this is mere speculation on my part. I am merely trying to help solve our problem generated from the dice cheat.

PLEASE, I mercifully BEG you to fix this portion of the code and issue a new version.

Sincerely,
Bill Price

[sjz]

Many of us have played the CD game since it came out. We love this game. The clubs that have come here asking for help (myself included) have been created to allow fun, fair, and competitive gaming. The newly created dice cheat will lead to the destruction of those communities that have been created based upon this game. I am positive that we (the club members of every club)would even pay for a new release too, if that solved our problem.

We come asking for your help.

We need your help.

Please.

[Oso-Azul]

Hello,
I belong to the clubs mentioned above.
Please help us.
Oso-Azul

[caesar205]

I am also a member of a couple of these clubs asking if there is anything you can do to fix this problem. I have been using this CD game for almost 4 years now. It is too bad that some jerks see ruining things as a sense of accomplishment. Anything that can be done to fix this problem would be greatly appreciated.

[gn_blitzkrieg]

Axis and Allies is a game I've been playing since 1985. After college I couldn't find a game until the cd came out. Please help us!

Thanks for your time.

Gn_Blitzkrieg

[chucks_1]

Please add my name to the list, your help on this matter would be greatly appreciated.

[AirCav_1stof9th]

To whom it ma concern,
Hello and thank you for the time u are spending reading this thread.Youve read about the above mentioned dice chet.It works and without some immediate help from people with your expertise it could be death of multiple clubs and a whoel online community.

Ive been playing this game for roughly 18 years.14 years of it on the actual baord game and the last 4 years online.I would buy any new online axis and allies game manufactured . Many of us would. Over the last few years ive bought a few of the newer board games(pacific and Europe) i even bought Aixis and allies Iron Blitz which never had a patch released due to the sale of hasbros online games to your company.

WHile this isntthe only game i play online(ive bought 3 new games for comp and 9 for xbox in last 6 months) it is by far the game i love the most. The game has many random outcomes much like chess and risk .Id hate to lose the use of this game because of a dice cheat.


Please let us know if their is anything we can do from donating time for testing new games, a patch, or a scandisk program like is used in other games. Our future is in your hands!

Thanks again for your time,
AirCav_1stof9th

[louismyager]

I join in this petition. I suspect a fix could be accomplished with minimal effort by an Infogrames programmer. The effort could result in the salvation of a very devoted online community of A&A players and produce some great friends and allies for Infogrames.

[FearlessPanther]

I too am a member of these clubs. This cheat effects more than those that play ladder games though. Every night there is roughly 3-4 times the amount of people who play this game non rated and are not a member of any club.

[blue_eagle_27]

I am a member of these great clubs and would appreciate any help you can offer .

THANK YOU

[Bohemond]

This 'dice cheat' has been talked about for years, I am hoping that it is just a hoax, maybe even just to get us to register to this site. I have been playing A&A for ~12 years now, I used to play the board game (it was rare to have the opportunity to burn a whole day doing that). I then played via e-mail, painful, but still a labor of love. Most of the gamers would have many games going on at the same time. When the CD came out, it was the most amazing thing (yes, better than sliced bread). I have enjoyed many games vs. opponents from Australia, Europe, and even found out that one fellow was about 5 minutes from where I worked.

This dice cheat does have people spooked, I think I was accused of having it myself. I say 'I think' because I had no idea the guy was serious. After one battle that pretty much decided his fate he (Kreriov) said something to the effect of "why do you play if you are just gonna cheat" (I am paraphrasing), I dot wish to throw barbs at him, I thought he was kidding, but later I felt he was serious (I am a little slow....lol). We have all seen 'amazing' dice rolls, like any other game of chance, even the highly improbable does happen. Now gamers wonder if it was more than just "luck of the roll".

Anyway, this is a very longwinded way of saying that if someone could investigate this matter, it would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks for reading!

Bohemond of Tarentum

[PorcelainBus]

As a member of the Axis and Allies community, I too would appreciate any help can offer. This dice cheat will kill all online play :(

PorcelainBus

[Bilt_it]

I own a few of your other games as well as Axis & Allies. I am a huge Matrix fan and have been dying for the new Matrix movies and the “Enter The Matrix” game to come out.

As a current consumer of many of your products I am asking you to help us.

As a potential consumer of your future products I am asking you to help us.

I won’t buy one more product with “Infogrames ” name on it if you can’t help me/us when I/we need it.

Bilt_It

[PorcelainBus]

This is NOT a hoax.
The dice cheat exists. Many club members, including myself, have seen it in operation.
It WORKS and will KILL online play.

PorcelainBus

[LansDryman]

Being Secretary of Membership in Balance of Power, an online Axis and Allies gaming club, I am sure I speak for all the members of BOP by saying we need your help. I have been playing this game since 1984 with the board version and over 2 years online. I(we) urge you to help us in finding a solution to this dice cheat program problem. There is discussion of taking up a collection plate by many many players who love to play A&A.

Although we are not a big corporation such as yourselves, it is us, the people who buy and play your enjoyable games. Again we urge you to help us with this problem so that we may continue enjoying Axis and Allies.

Sincerely

[Bone_Roller]

I don't play in any ladder clubs. I have been playing this game online since Jan 99.

Please see if there is something you can do about solving this problem for A&A addicts all over the world.

Thanks

[elbowmaster]

ditto to all...

bummer how a few wreck it for the rest

[Unitlock]

It is hard enough getting people intersted in online play because of the DirectX problems, but this dice cheat will be the death of it all. If you can help, please do.

Unitlock

[Badactorian]

As you can see above there are plenty of motivated people that would like to see some action taken in regard to the dice cheat for axis & allies, including myself.

I am not a computer person but from what I understand Infogames is about the only entity that could provide a fix for the problem because the source code is now owned by your company.

I believe there are several hundred people that would pay for a patch of some sort. Or if any of the a&a club officials are reading this.. maybe paying Infogames an hourly programming fee for one of thier programmers to solve the problem would work. This would of course be something that would need to be discussed between any club officials and Infogames. I'm sure a massive drive to raise funds in all the clubs would raise a sufficient amount of cash.

I would personally donate $200 if a real plan were in place.

[Delta25Actual]

This game is a great game to play online. THis cheat will destroy it. Please do what you can to stop it. a patch, a detector, What ever.

TY

Delta25Actual

[wiranto2]

I am playing this game almost everyday now, and I have been encouraging my 11 & 13 year old sons to play too. Please come up with something to prolong the life of this fine game and save our little community.

[Gen_Patton1945]

I am a co-webmaster of 1 of these on-line clubs.
www.balance-of-power.net

This is a big problem and could end on-line play of this game.
I have the program in question and would be more then happy to send it to you so that you may look into it and see if a patch could be made to counter this.

Please feel free to contact me at
gen_patton1945@balance-of-power.net
also if you need testers for this new patch please feel free to contact anyone of the guys on this board.


Thank You
James

[Badfrog1]

I share the same concern with the many players that have posted already. Please if there is any way possible, help us to restore a fair playing field to this great game.

Not only will this dice cheat ruin online Axis and Allies play for everyone, it will also end many good online friendships. It might save many marriages, but darn it WE NEED OUR AXIS AND ALLIES!

Thank you for whatever you guys can do.

Badfrog1
Asst AAPL Adminisrator
Spring1942

[Mr_Yokozuna]

I to play axis and allies and I'm just as concerned as all these other guys.

If you can help save our community you would go a long way to developing a relationship with potential consumers that you might not ordinarily have.


Thanks in advance,

Yoko

[desertfox15]

I also play the game in spring1942. Please consider creating a patch to eliminate the possibility of a dice cheat.

Thanks,

Fox

[pinkfloyd214]

I am also a member of Balance of power and realivly new at online gaming w/ A&A even though i've played the game since 85. this is a game that is dear to the hearts of all the people who have posted and will post to this tread. we collectively ask (beg) if there is anything your company can do, please help. there have been several people who have said that they would quit if we can't keep the game fair. i would like to take the liberty to thank you for any help you can give us.

signed
Steve Van Allen
pinkfloyd214
Loyal member of the Knifes

[blitzkeg]

I don't need to reiterate any of the reasons why we need a fix. My esteemed colleagues have spelled it out quite eloquently.

So what it comes down to is: has infogrames written off Axis and Allies?

In it's current form, with the dice cheat, It's mostly worthless. The AI in it's current form is no challenge at all.
The only avenue to success for this game is online play.

We are a very impassioned, devoted group of players.

I realize that you're in the buisiness of Selling games and not just providing fixes to a game that most of us bought from Hasbro. The Problem is .....You now have the rights to it not Hasbro! From a buisiness standpoint, You could sell all of us a new cleaned up version of the game. I Know in this great big corporate world that $$ talks and pleas for help and compassion walk.

As an online community, we number in the thousands.

So the bottom line is: what's it worth to you as a company to fix a few bugs and a simple dice cheat in order to sell a few thousand copies of an old game and garner a loyal and potentially new customer base?

thx in advance for any assistance
blitzkeg

[GenBavel1]

I would also like to add my name to this list.

Please Help us.Otherwise we will lose a game and most important a COMMUNITY Called Axis & Allies.

GenBavel1
Louis Bavellas

[Starr2McGee]

Please add my name to the growing list of A & A players requesting a patch to fix the dice cheat.

If you ever want to know all of the 'undocumented features' :eek: of A & A that need repair, please visit any of the club sites. You will find that all of the research has been completed and well documented for you. Now we need your development in creating a patch to solve the greatest threat to a phenominal game! Even if you choose to ignore the other issues with the software, please consider saving it from being obsolete and patch the dice cheat flaw.

Thanks in advance for your consideration. And yes, I would be thrilled to pay for an upgrade that addressed the program flaws.

[Ace_Power_Putt]

I would like to reiterate the above comments.

I am a member of WAR Club :

http://www.axis-allies.com/

I would gladly send money to combat this. Many people would.

I hope you are willing to help with this matter.

Please respond.

Thanks,

Ace

[DaGaminFool]

It's funny how things work out.

I've been thinking about writing you and offering to patch the bugs in the Axis and Allies game "gratis" if that's what it took - and now this dice cheat issue has come along.

It looks like you've been offered cash, programmer support, and testing support - it seems to me like you're in a pretty good position for a software development company.

All you have to provide is controlled access to the code and a point-of-contact.

And this could even lead to an opportunity to rerelease the game and make more money. In the current "down" economy ... how cool is that?

Anyway ... I'd like to see the cheat shut down, too. What do we need to do to get past the "message on a bulletin board" phase?

[Sean Stephen]

A cheat detector is this case would be good, or otherwise a patch will do just fine too.

................................Sean Stephen.................................................

[warman1999]

we need to do something about this dice cheet if you can come up with a program to fix it I think a lot of A&A players will pay for it

[Axcomm]

To all concerned,

Our axis and allies community is in urgent need of your assistance. Please give some thought and direction to at least correcting this problem with the dice cheat. Our community has devised ways around dozens of bugs in the original and patched program but we need your help on this one.

Axis and allies is a great game that continues to garner devoted fans despite the buggy and out of production software. This is a great title that Hasbro blew off because they made a mess of the programming, not because it isn't a great game. The board games continue to sell, and a decent online product will sell too.

But Please, as a minimum, fix the dice cheat. A loyal, large, and devoted fan base depends on it.

best regards,

Axcomm

[Redice_mouse]

I also am a member of the online club Spring1942.
Please help us.

[two_head_eagle]

Hello,


I am a new member of the A&A community and I am really sorry that a cheat has spoiled such a good game.

Please, provide us with a version or a patch so we can keep on playing your amazing game.


A&A fun from Greece:cry:

[salange]

I really hope you guys are able to help us out by coming up with a patch for this problem. Ideally, you could even come up with a patch for some of the major gameplay problems for the disk. You have a built in audience of thousands of club players who would kill for a fully finctional game. Please help us!

[tab51]

I too am a loyal member of Axis & Allies ladder clubs, and there is nothing that I can add that others before me have not already said. This dice cheat programm will bring to a halt the current environment of online gaming as we know it today. Please see to it to at least investigate a possible patch that could at least detect it.


thank you,

[pmillard]

I am the Chairman of the Axis & Allies Member's Club. We are primarily a play by email club, however, we do play and support the CD version of Axis & Allies. The existence of this cheat can and will have a very detrimental affect on the play of the cd version of Axis & Allies!

We support the other online A&A clubs in their effort to find a solution to this new dice cheat. We would appreciate any and all help you can do to resolve this very serious issue!

Paul Millard (chairman@aamc.net)
Chairman, JCS
Axis & Allies Member's Club

[TopGunatA&A]

I am also a committed member of the Balance of Power and Spring1942. I would like to see a resolution to the dice cheat and a new patch to be made to combat those who are using it.

I would also buy any new version of Axis and Allies cd made and would offer to help test it.

[FlenserX]

This dice cheat renders the CD useless. Please create a patch fix. A new version would be even better. I'd purchase a revised Axis and Allies CD as soon as it was available.

[Captain_Chaos58]

Hopefully you can help us rid this menace from the A&A community.

Much appreciated

CC

[Mark1124]

I am a club official in Spring1942, one of the premier axis and allies online ladder clubs.

I, like many others, have been playing this game online for four years, others more. This game, strangly enough, has become a large part of my life that gets more attention than....well, just about anything.:(

As im sure you've read, there is now a functional dice cheat, and it will surely ruin our small, but very established community. If it is in any way possible to help, i urge you to do so. Any assistance will be gladly provided.

Please visit our site, and see what is in jeapordy.

www.Spring1942.org

A link to our message boards can be found there. You will see the most devoted online gaming community in history, one that should not be allowed to falter.

-Mark

[Commander_Chop]

Basically the dice cheat will make everyone suspicious when they play axis and allies and just happen to get good rolls. It's almost impossible to win vs an opponant who uses the dice cheat. In the end axis and allies, which is a superb game, will lose its grace, as you will suspect anyone of using the cheat.

It's too bad this has come to the axis and allies players, but I would like to see that a patch be made. Without it our clubs will probably lose lots of members and maybe even just fade away. What will be the fun in playing the game if such a thing is always in between players?

I hope you will look into this matter as our clubs and the best online game are on the line.

Commander Chop - member of warclub, bop, and spring.

[UKat51]

Stop the cheaters. Thay are ruining play for everyone.

[NickFuryWV]

I would like to add my voice to the others on this list. This game means quite alot to us and we need your help.
Thanks

NickFuryWV

[Mark1124]

Im simply adding another post to this thread. Im hoping that the larger it gets, the more inclined someone at infrogrames will be to respond.

I seriously hope you take the time to investigate our community, and see exactly what is on the line here.

We would not ask, if it were not needed.

-Mark1124
Attorney General
Spring1942

[TrannieMachine]

Help! I do not want to waste my time wasting my time. I do not care about the clubs as much as others but when I play someone I'd like it to be fair and real. Thx for your time. Trannie Machine

[Cygnusx1111]

Please help us! We all love this game. I also will donate money to pay for a patch/cheat fix.
While I understand there is not any profit for IG in this I am sure we can raise enough money to offset your costs. I am guessing(I program in C++) it would take one of your programmers 1-2 days to fix this issue.

[Merciful_Madman]

I would like to add my name to this list. I too am willing to donate $$$ toward a solution.

Someone please help us.

[Commander_Chop]

Played quite a few games on the internet until I met axis and allies. I love this game above all the others. It has strategy and luck, sort of risk combined with chess, only the luck factor is much less important than it seems. This is just my game, as I think it is for many others too.

Now the dice hack has come our way. This hack will ruin everything for all of us, as you can't say if your opponant is using it or not. The cheat has the possibility to turn on and off so you cannot really detect it by watching the rolls. Suspicion will hang above every game unless a patch will be made.

Please help us out, by making a patch or even let someone from one of the clubs who is good at programming have a shot at it. Many people depend on this to keep playing fun.

Thanks in advance.

Commander Chop
Member of warclub, bop and spring
Axis and allies addict

[Mark1124]

Your help is the help we need. I sincerely hope you find it in yourselves to take the time needed to provide this assistance.

-Mark

[Allied_Cmdr]

Please support this game and the players by fixing the dice cheat issue.

Oh, and while you're at it, how about some long awaited updates?

Allied_Cmdr

[laxdoc]

add me to the list. great game, hope you find the time to reward those who love this game.


lax

[johnjrambo420]

please fix!

[kisakson]

I too am a member of many of the clubs mentioned. An updated A&A CD which fixes this cheat would sell many thousands of copies to the many dedicated club players as well as thousands of casual players.

[beep440]

I hope whomever receives these request for support from the AA comunity will act on them swiftly. I have enjoyed playing the board game for almost 20 years, and love the fellowship and fast play of the online game. That someone has created a cheat is causing many headaces in our AA online family. A quick fix, if there is anything quick in the computer world, would be nice :) Thanks for your ear. Beep440 General Field Mershall of BOP SQD Play otherwise known as: Cheif Warrant Officer Five Ray Jackson Apache PIlot US ARMY:D

[Archimedes44]

To see these great clubs and communities die becuase of a few juveniles is truly sad.

Please, Infogrames, help us.

Archimedes44

[LionOfIreland]

The lack of an official reply is rather disturbing to me to this point... I'm hoping that it's an issue of this having occurred over a weekend and not a lack of support from Infogrames.

I see more posts on this thread right now than on almost any other post to this board. This is a MAJOR issue for many of us.

Please at least let us know someone "official" has looked at this thread. Even if you can't commit one way or another right now, it would give peace of mind to know we're being considered and not ignored.

LionOfIreland

[Solar813]

I have reviewed the Infogames list of software games. I own four of Infogames titles. I currently own over 200 PC games. I have in my life been payed to play video games, not much but as a play tester and as a screener of online play of 3D shooter games. I am a certified hardware tech, although i have no real programming knowlegde. Out of all the games i own i only play a handful regularly. However the only game i play on a weekly basis is Axis and allies. Crazy as this may sound i bought two copy's of the cd and one of iron blitz due to the inevitabilty of future unavailabilty. i spend anywhere from 20 to 60 hours a week on my computer, more that half of which is axis and allies. i know this for a fact because my wife has shown me our online service bill with over 80 hours a week logged on time. the point i am trying to make is that yes there is a serious problem with this dice cheat. I definately qualify as a repeat customer with a healty salary. I would be very grateful to a company that went out of its way to fix a game bug in a game i enjoy, and it goes without saying that i would buy and upgraded version of axis and allies, at least once.

Thanks for your time.
Solar813

[Hess]

Please add my name to the request to fix the cheat, or to release the source code so someone from one of the various clubs can fix it! I would also be willing to contribute to the cost of this.

BOP and Spring are the two main clubs playing on line with the CD, but there are several other clubs out there whose members often also use the CD. Members of my club, IAAPA (www.axisandallies.net), primarily use the club's services to play by e-mail, but a significant percentage of us get on line regularly in the Zone for CD play. There are over 200 active, dues-paying IAAPA members, most of whom are probably your customers with this or other games. Whether or not they find their way to this site or not to post, I am sure they would concur that the cheat should be fixed for the good of the entire A&A community.

Please do the needful. We would be most grateful.

Lee Hess

[Therion-NLD]

I also play A&A online, please head our call and save this community from possible destruction!

David Knight

[OpTorch]

This year I joined Spring to play in a laddercompetition with the AA cd. The tech cheat will destroy this competition (and of other clubs as well) within few months or even weeks. Distrust with this dice game will grow, while the playerpool will decrease.

I hope Infogrames will consider reaching a helping hand.

Thanks,
Alexander aka OpTorch

[SquishyBall]

I have played A&A since 1986, and the CD version for the last couple years... I would gladly buy an updated version if this CD dice cheat were fixed.

Trust in the dice simulator is a must for a game like A&A online to work, and I too, feel the online game will lose interest now that ppl just don't know if your opponent is cheating or not.

Pls address this issue... Doing so would be great for the A&A community as a whole. I'm really surprised to see SO many ppl out here, hoping to have a response from Infogrames. A&A is truly the ONLY game (well, okay, other than SimCity) that I have stuck with for so many years, and definitely the only game that has been so well adapted from board- to online play.

Pls fix this.
-Squish.

[s_malt]

As voiced by so many to date:

Please develop a patch to disable this vulnerability.

This game has been popular among a certain market segment for some time. While it may not seem to be a profitable issue to address, perhaps there is a simple solution that could be arrived at if you at Infogrames could at least review the situation.

Thank you in advance for your attention to this!

[Deathtale]

PLEASE HELP us to fix this mess. ty very much

[dgss1]

I too am an avid player of both clubs & would love something to be done if possible.

let us know, if you can help

dg

[captbismark]

I am also a long time member in both online clubs and a Microsoft zone member plus. The game is not officially supported by the zone, but it is where most play the game. If the game is not fixed it will make the game unplayable. Who would honestly play to pit your strategies against another if you can not say 100% they cannot cheat Please fix it. WE are willing to help in any way we can. Thanks for your consideration Mike Thomas (+captbismark)

[ssarmor]

As avid player of Axis & Allies for 20 years, I've enjoyed this game everytime I play win or lose. The online play has been the best. I do not belong to any clubs but I play online at least twice a week. I am with all others here in requesting your help to repair or somehow terminate this dice cheat. PLEASE HELP US...Thank you...SSARMOR

[gundbear]

As a long standing member of several AA clubs and internet sites, and a dedicated online player of axis and allies, i am saddened by the dawning of this dice cheat. It apalls me that some people need to resort to such behaviour(which coincidentally baffles me) when this game is played for fun. There is no honor in cheating - period! As a dedicated and loyal consumer, I am beseaching this company to assist in the development of a counter measure to return the integrety of the game to its' majority not its minority users. This thread represents a global movement as players, both male and female, from all races, creeds etc have come together as a voice. The question now is will this united voice be heard or .....does a cooportate business ignore its revenue source? Thanks in advance for your smart business move and a common sense no brainer answer.
sincerely,
gundbear
aka gummy

[swissblitzer_5]

Please assist the online gaming community by developing a patch for this cheat!

[shakinotstirred]

Add my name to the list.This game will be ruined for online play if something is not done about this dice cheat.Most of us here have played this game since the beggening and have not asked for much in return even though the game has alot of little bugs in it that could have been fixed a long time ago with a simple little patch.we arent asking you to fix the little bugs in this game we can play through them like we have for years.but the dice cheat is to much you cannot play the game with this.IT WILL BE RUINED IF U DONT FIX IT AND FAST.the only thing we ask is that u patch the dice cheat


SNS

[BigRob93]

Ditto on what the guys above have said.

We are a community. We have carved out our little piece of bliss in cyberspace to competitively play a game we enjoy. Like all communities, ours is based upon respect and trust. Now, a very few people have introduced a cancer. It will spread mistrust and our community will die. You have the power to aid us. If you cannot afford to release a patch to fix a game you no longer support...then at least release the source code to the community and we will fix it ourselves. Thanks for your understanding.

Thank You,
BigRob93

[mathawk1]

I would also like to add my support please find a patch to stop people being able to have a dice cheat program for axis and allies.
I have played this game for many years on-line, both club games and non club games. This game is excellent and deserves to continue to be properly played and respected. Please act!

[Bubbadust]

Please help stop the dice cheat! I have been an active member of Axis and Allies clubs for over 3 years and would hate to see CD games ruined by this!!!

Bubbadust

[nemo97]

:down:with cheaters and the cheating patch!

I've bought this game 3 times after kids lost my discs!

Did we forget DAAKhttp://www.daak.de (http://)?

I am a member of BOP, SPring, AAMC & DAAK. All have CD-rom players and all are probably just as concerned about the integrity of the game.

Please fix it for us.

John
nemo97

[Spanky_79]

Fix the game please....


Fix..
Fix
Fix..........


Cheating dice stink and ruin the quality of human life.

[IvanTTerrible]

We are very sad regarding this development. I am sure we as a playing community can financially support a patch/modification. There have been a few other bugs in the system that we have all learned to play around that many of our members could probably help fix (ie programming support).

Best Regards,
ITT

[Van_Trump]

I am at best a casual player, though technically a member of both BOP & Spring1942. Though I have played the axis and allies board game at many a gaming convention, the calibre of play in the gaming zone never fails to impress me.
This is one clear-cut example of the benefits of the internet: a game that would normally take an entire weekend against top competition only takes a few hours via the cd version of the game. Also spares me from trying to find a live opponent.
The pseudo random number generator included with the game was never particularly good, but at least it was fair, warts and all.

This internet community is one of the more polite and professional I have seen.
It seems a terrible shame to have all this brought to an end.
Hopefully the folks at Infogames will likewise be impressed by the maturity and thoughtfulness displayed by the axis and allies community in this time of crisis, and consider seriously this call for help.

Van Trump

[GoekaWar]

Hi,

Here a A&A-scream for help from the Netherlands,get a fix please.

Axisgreetings,GoekaWar

[katalex]

I'm an active member of both Spring1942 and Balance of Power online clubs.
It is a shame that the game is no longer supported.
Despite the bugs of the CD game, a strong community has grown and many efforts have been done to ensure a polite, fair, professional gaming for Axis and Allies.
It's due to this online community that the game's strategies have been so much improved making this a great, fun, competitive game.
The online community helps finding new players, and it would be such a shame should it end after the spreading of cheats and suspicions...
I think the online clubs have shown the best effort to try and find a solution that could preserve both the community and the obvious economic needs of the software company.
In my opinion, we are not spamming you without a serious reason, please respond, please help, please show us a professional feedback.
Thank you
Alessio Gigli aka katalex

[TechMonk]

Hi folks,

Tepic is on vacation this week, so, if you've missed his replies, that would be why. I'll try to fill in. :D Sorry for the delay.

The community you've built up around this game is really awesome. It's obvious from the sheer number of posts you must have a pretty tight-knit group built up. It's a shame that this dice cheat is causing so much grief.

Now I'm just representing Tech Support, so I unfortunately can't fix the problem for you. It falls outside our area of expertise. I would love to though if I could, believe me. I've made your concerns known and I'll continue to do so. Please realize the difficulty of the situation though. The game is old, the original publisher for it no longer exists in the same form, the development team is probably disbanded and on to other things, etc.

You're comments have been heard. The minute I hear anything new, if I hear anything new, I'll let you know.

Final Note: Please try to keep the AA dice cheat discussion to this thread alone. Thanks.

[Bohemond]

TechMonk,
Thank you for your reply. It is great to see any kind of response, even if it is not exactly what we want to hear.

You and your company need to know that this is a unique situation. For the last 6 years, I have been explaining to my customers why my company cannot support obsolete products that they want serviced. Changes in design, manufacturing, programming, etc can result in irreversible modifications to old product (I used to sell/service automated systems for the pharmaceutical industry, now liquid fuel pumping systems for power generation).

This situation is unique because we can do so much of the work for you. Obviously, we can do nothing without your support, but we can provide you with tireless support, all we need to do is agree on the course of action. Amongst the A&A geeks are programmers and engineers that could write/modify code, test the code to death, recommend improvements, whatever we are asked to do! And, dare I say that some of these guys have played the game more than the 'creator' of the game.

Nothing is free, all that I am asking for is an evaluation of what needs to be done, in the short term, and long term. You guys could do that in a 15 minute meeting (I am sure that you have discussed a new release for the game), then come back and ask us for help, ask us for a lot of help! To a man, we would give up hours upon hours of our time to give you what you need to help us.

We seek changes to the dice simulator, we would also love to go after bug fixes, corrections to the program (for example, submarines were supposed to have 'sneak attack' on the first round only), upgrades to the player-sync, and other gaming issues that are beyond my scope. These fixes could be done in months. And later, if you were to release a new CD-ROM 2, 3 or 4 years from now, we would be waiting in line!!!

Please discuss this, then let us know how much it will cost and what you need us to do.

Best Regards,

Michael DeDora

a.k.a - Bohemond

[robertdgibson]

I would like to add my name to this petition for help.

I am a member of Balance of Power and War Club Ladder Clubs.

I would be willing to pay money for an effective patch or detection program.

I am a Computer Systems Engineer, and as many people might oversimplify the ability to build such a dice hack or a detector, I would expect the company or individual who builds the effective remedy of this problem to receive compensation for the expertise, equipment and time.

- Rob

[RippingGutting]

As one of the most honorable members of the AA community can I ask why? why is it so difficult for you as a software company to cost a patch and say "guys its $xxx.xxx amount" then we can collectively fund (raise) this ? all we ask is a cost structure for a patch is this not what your business does? I work at a software company we do this all day long....


RippingGutting

[TechMonk]

Axis and Allies folks,

We (Infogrames) are not truely a software company (like a developer) but a software publisher. There is an important difference. I can't speak for the main facet of Infogrames busines (publishing) since I am a technical support representative, but I will tell you what I understand regarding the subject.

Meyer-Glass Interactive is the "software company" that created the Axis and Allies computer video game. Hasbro Interactive originally published it. The most basic explanation of how these types of businesses interact is that companies like Hasbro Interactive (a publisher) pay companies like Meyer-Glass Interactive (a software company) for the rights to sell their games, like Axis and Allies. It's just like book publishing.

Some time ago Infogrames purchased the rights to sell Hasbro's games. I'm sure the deal is more complex than that, but that's the important part of it for this discussion. That basically makes Infogrames the "publisher" of Axis and Allies. This does not make Infogrames the software company that made Axis and Allies though. Infogrames sells/sold the product "Axis and Allies" the computer game to retailers in exactly the state it was aquired. Luckily for the end user, Infogrames also supplies technical support for the products it sells.

The forums we are posting on are the Infogrames Technical Support Forums. What technical support does is provide help with Infogrames products, as they currently exist. This is an important thing to note. Technical support does not make patches. The closest we get to that is providing technical information to software companies that Infogrames publishes for who are in the business of making patches for products they are still working on or have contractual obligations or a personal interest to make patches for.

What does this all mean? This means these technical support forums may not be an effective resource for you folks to get what you're looking for. We can help you with Axis and Allies as it is now, we would love to: it's our job, but we cannot make a patch. We are not a software company.

If a patch is ever going to be made to address this dice cheat, it would have to be because of one of the following:

------

A) Meyer-Glass spontaneously decides to create and self-publish a patch. You're of course welcome to ask them to if you like:

http://www.mgigames.com/

B) Infogrames Publishing (not technical support) decides to pay Meyer-Glass or some other software company X amount of money to make a patch. Please keep in mind, to my knowledge, software publishers do not pay to have new patches made for old games which are no longer being produced. I do not believe Axis and Allies is still in print, it is only in stock.

Though I personally, speaking for myself, think it very unlikely; the Infogrames publishing division (the main part of the company) might very well decide to invest in having a patch made. If you in the Axis and Allies community would like to pursue that possibility, I suggest getting in touch with Infogrames through a different avenue than technical support. All of our contacts can be found here:

http://www.infogrames.com/

As I've personally taken interest in this topic, I'll see if I have some avenue of making your request known to Infogrames publishing as well.

C) Some talented coders in the Axis and Allies community could develop something to combat the dice cheat.

D) If the community is truely serious about spending the money to have a patch made for the game by professional software developers, I suggest contacting Meyer-Glass Interactive (or the developers of your choice) yourselves. If you would be providing the funding for such a project, as far as I know, Infogrames wouldn't really be involved outside of legal concerns. In other words, you could contact the software development team, and then they would contact Infogrames if necessary.

In effect, whoever provides the money for a patch would become the publisher of the patch, Infogrames wouldn't be involved (again, save for legal concerns that I'm not educated on).

Here is Meyer-Glass Interactive's web address again:

http://www.mgigames.com/

------

I hope that was informative. In summary, I want to make it clear that Infogrames Technical Support would love to make a patch for you if we could. Unfortunately, we only have exactly as much ability to produce a patch as you do.

Good luck with all of this, I hope it works out.

[Gen_Patton1945]

I would just like to thank you for your reply to this thred.
Also I understand what you are saying about where your company stands.

I am sure that you have looked at the clubs involved webpages and you see all the work that has been done for this Game. I think that your inside voice may carry some weight for us on the outside. Maybe if you were to show the clubs webpages to the uper brass and they see all the work and the intrest maybe they could propose to the developer to make a second edition to this game.

Kind of like what was done with Risk and RiskII.
There is a big following for this game and I feel that this is a market that your company could tap into.

Thanks Again
James aka +GEN_PATTON1945 MSN ZONE Plus Member. :up:

[ButchOhare1]

Thanks for all the information TechMonk. I am trying to contact Meyer-Glass Interactive. All your help is greatly appreciated.

[kurt3892]

Techmonk said:

"As I've personally taken interest in this topic, I'll see if I have some avenue of making your request known to Infogrames publishing as well."

Any news on the result of your request?

Thanks for trying,

KURT.

[kurt3892]

One more thing...seems like Meyer-Glass Interactive website has disappeared...do you have the url for their site?