Help!Point Defenses not firing

[Juergen]

Help!

I dont know if Im making something wrong or if it is a bug.

My TF (Long Range)is attacking a planet protected by a missile base.
The TF is loaded with Long Range and Point Defense Ships and Scouts.
But the ships just dont fire at the missiles,they just stand there and get blasted away. :(
The weapon mounts and weapon types should be okay,and the PD ships are in the escort ring and properly designated as PD ships (mission type).
I have enough scouts so I can see the missiles from their launch to the impact.

Did I forget something?
Is anyone else having the same problem?

I have been working on this problem since yesterday...:sour: and Im still trying to find the problem.

The only thing that I have noticed:
If my TF contains missile ships that still have some volleys left the ships do fire at incoming missiles.
But otherwise they do nothing.

[Xentax]

Yeah, this issue has been documented and is being worked on. It can REALLY suck to have such a volley decimate your ships when you KNOW they could be shooting the birds down before impact.

It has something to do with the way the TF is attacking a target, but the details haven't trickled down to my ears yet.

It can help if your TFs are *not* currently following an order to attack something, but it still doesn't work 100%. So, try having your TF follow a move or patrol order when there's inbound missiles or fighters, and see if that helps. I generally move my TFs by giving them move or patrol orders to the vicinity of their targets, and only giving attack orders when I actually want them to fire on a specific target (one in close range, or to ensure their missiles head for a particularly high-priority target, etc.).

Let me know if that helps, and especially if it doesn't.

[Anunikoba]

Boy, how did this gem of a bug manage to make it past all that regression testing?

[Juergen]

I just tried it...

A big Long Range TF filled with LR and PD ships and scouts.
Dont ask how expensive it was you dont want to know...
The TF didnt contain any missile ships by the way.

I set it on patrol in front of the planet with the missile base.

The did not fire a single shot to defend themselves and got blown to hell! :mad:

Oh man I wish I could post that screenshot,that was truly a sight!
It sure looked nice but still it made me sad :(

This IS a major showstopper.

[Cephalopod]

Originally posted by Anunikoba
Boy, how did this gem of a bug manage to make it past all that regression testing?

I'd guess it's rare enough not to be a problem. I haven't seen it yet...

[Juergen]

Rare?

It happens ALL the time to me!
The game is unplayable this way.

The only way to make the TF fire at the missiles at least once in while is to put some missile ships in them.
Somehow this seems to help...
But still this is only a workaround.

I hope that this problem will be fixed in a patch very soon,I have been waiting for Moo3 long enough.

[Cephalopod]

Put this problem up on the Bugs/Suggestions board. It could be that there is a fix for it and someone there will see it and let you know how.

Just a thought.

And, yes, rare. I haven't seen it. I haven't seen other posts that complain about it. That doesn't mean it isn't important to fix. Personally, I don't want to see it.

[Paradigm]

Its far from rare ceph. Everytime i engage missile ships i experience the exact same problem. I have no problem blowing fighters to hades though. I guess we could look on the bright side, we dont have to research the missile armor and such considering you cant shoot at them anyway lol

[zangler]

i dont know how to tell you guys this, but my missles fire just fine....

[Cephalopod]

Originally posted by Paradigm
Its far from rare ceph. Everytime i engage missile ships i experience the exact same problem. I have no problem blowing fighters to hades though. I guess we could look on the bright side, we dont have to research the missile armor and such considering you cant shoot at them anyway lol

I hear ya. None the less it isn't all that common.

Don't misunderstand, it is a big deal and it would make life difficult. I'm not arguing that. But someone asked "How does it slip by?". If the problem is so rare that the devs can't replicate it, they probably weren't able to fix it. Now that they know it actually is a problem, they may be able to replicate it if you post your system specs and so forth in the Bug report thread dedicated to this.

I know when I debug code if I can't replicate the problem I have the damndest time tracking it down... I can only imagine it is a whole lot worse for a game as complex as MoO3.

[Cephalopod]

Originally posted by zangler
i dont know how to tell you guys this, but my missles fire just fine....

It isn't that the missiles don't fire. The problem they have is that the point defense weaponry doesn't fire to stop incoming missiles.

[zangler]

sorry...thats what i meant. i was stopping incoming missles from enemy ships...have not tried against planets yet.

[Juergen]

Well,if Xentax says that this problem has been documented before there may be hope left for me :)

But if there would be no way of fixing this problem...the only alternative left to me would be to buy a brand new machine :bulb:

Because with this bug Moo3 would be dead for me.
And with Moo3 gone gaming would be dead for me.

[Cephalopod]

Originally posted by Juergen
Well,if Xentax says that this problem has been documented before there may be hope left for me :)

But if there would be no way of fixing this problem...the only alternative left to me would be to buy a brand new machine :bulb:

Because with this bug Moo3 would be dead for me.
And with Moo3 gone gaming would be dead for me.

Yeah, if Xentax said they're working on it, I'd bet they will have it fixed for you soon. I posted a possible, though unlikely fix in the bug reports thread about this.

Have you tried starting over and playing a new map? It may just be a one time deal...

[Alexfrog]

This is wierd....I have had ships shoot down incoming missiles with their PD...


I wonder what conditions are necessary to see this bug?

[Cephalopod]

Originally posted by Alexfrog
This is wierd....I have had ships shoot down incoming missiles with their PD...


I wonder what conditions are necessary to see this bug?

Considering the complexity of the game, mechanics, I don't know if it will be possible for a player to tell... short of memory dumps. :)

[kalbear]

I've had the same problem as well. I don't know what it is, exactly. All the LR ships I build get equipped with PD, and they all die horribe deaths.

Only IF ships seem to use their PD escort at all.

My suspicion is that when you put a LR ship in a LR TF, it will use _all_ it's weaponry for the role defined by it unless it can't. This is why IF ships work fine - because they don't do DF weapons, so no worries.

This is backed up a little bit by having LR ships in an IF actually shoot things down.

I'll have to write about it more, but I've seen this several times. I've also seen attacking a planet with a LR and watching it close until the PD weapons could attack the planet. Boy, was I pissed about that one...

[warden]

Originally posted by kalbear
My suspicion is that when you put a LR ship in a LR TF, it will use _all_ it's weaponry for the role defined by it unless it can't. This is why IF ships work fine - because they don't do DF weapons, so no worries.

That makes sense. That was one of the wrinkles in MOO2 that took me a while to learn - clicking on the PD weapons of ships to make them red so that they would be held back for true point defense rather than making futile attempts to damage the targets that the main batteries were firing at.

If only MOO3 had built on the firm foundations of MOO2 rather than dismissing it and starting again from scratch. *sigh*

[digicrab]

Originally posted by warden
That makes sense. That was one of the wrinkles in MOO2 that took me a while to learn - clicking on the PD weapons of ships to make them red so that they would be held back for true point defense rather than making futile attempts to damage the targets that the main batteries were firing at.

If only MOO3 had built on the firm foundations of MOO2 rather than dismissing it and starting again from scratch. *sigh*


Whoa! Do you know what you're talking about there? What part of MOO2 do you want to reuse exacly?

[Avatar_Squadron]

you know what would be funny though... is if the inverse happened and you startedf getting missiles ships and LR vessels using they're main batteries to down missiles... fire a full volley of missiles and they go and seek out incoming missiles... LOL

[kalbear]

You actually do - if they're escorts, they'll shoot at fighters and missiles with spinal mounts.

They nail 'em from quite a ways away. It's quite nice, actually.

[Juergen]

I just tried it with an Indirect Fire TF with some PD ships as escorts...
That didnt help either :(

Nothing is done to stop the missiles!

This way the game is unplayable for me! :mad:
3 long years and I still cant play the game :mad:

[Evil_Fear]

I haven't encountered the problem yet, however I did see my IF TF use it's missiles to kill the incomming missiles, but I don't know if they were pd missiles or the regular ones.

What is the advantage of Pd mount btw, as I can only see a slight increase in recharge rate(rate of fireing??) and a huge drop in damage, while the same size as a light mount, that does allot more damage then a Pd mount gun.

[Juergen]

Send a TF without any missiles.Then you might encounter the bug.

Remaining missile volleys seem to help a little...

[QuantumPion]

I've been getting around this bug by making all of my picket ships use PD rockets :cool: (i mean in moo2 anti missle rockets were always more effective then PD beams, unless you had a **** load of them :p )

The problem is that they only get a few shots so I still get heavy losses, although it does help somewhat...

[Sammual]

*Bump*
I have not had this problem yet but I want people to see this and post if they found a solution.

Did anyone post this to the bugs/suggestion board?

Sammual

[Eidalac]

A psuedo fix for this, and other combat troubles, seems to be to cede control of the battle.

So far, for me, the AI will do far better alone vs heavy missle fire than if I'm only watching.

Example would be me attacking a homeworld with 5 IF orbitals. Just watching, 1 carrier out of 47 ships survived. Reloading and cedeing control a few times only caused me to lose 10-20 ships each time.

*shrugs*

[Juergen]

And let the computer have all the fun?

No way ! :D

[DarkHawke]

Same problem here. Up to about turn 200 or 250, PD weapons worked fine. After that, all ships absolutely refuse to shoot down incoming missiles, even in computer-controlled situations. I've used IF, LR, and SR, both with and without PD weapons, and with and without PD escorts. In no case will a single PD weapon fire at an incoming missile.

They're still hell on fighters, but it sucks losing fleets of superdreadnaughts to planets with only a missile base.

[Malkuth74]

Originally posted by Anunikoba
Boy, how did this gem of a bug manage to make it past all that regression testing?

That is what we like to know. My fleet was decimated last night by this bug. And missles on the smaller ships like Cruisers and stuff are DEADLY bad.

Kinda wonder if they put the wrong version on these cds. Between this bug, and the Not so smart AI wonder if they spent more time playing and living with the game then actually looking for bugs.

But we have no idea what went on during Beta, Beta guys are not speaking.

But this Game WILL BE THE BEST GAME when they fix it with a patch.

Just we going to have to live with it for now. Im sure the Devs will work on it.

Good luck guys. :D

[XenoArch]

Did you ever alt-tab? I get a whole slew of bugs after I alt-tab.. I haven't seen this particular bug, however i do play the klackons alot (still learnoing game) and I never get point defence.. i have to trade or steal it.. so i don't get PD much. But my light wepons on missle ships fire at missles and fighters. (I don't alt tab no more after all the bugs i found if i alt-tabed)

[Malkuth74]

Originally posted by XenoArch
Did you ever alt-tab? I get a whole slew of bugs after I alt-tab.. I haven't seen this particular bug, however i do play the klackons alot (still learnoing game) and I never get point defence.. i have to trade or steal it.. so i don't get PD much. But my light wepons on missle ships fire at missles and fighters. (I don't alt tab no more after all the bugs i found if i alt-tabed)

Go to the Bugs board. This bug has been reported. And the only fix right now is not to Alt Tab.

Good luck.

[BoydofZINJ]

In a single player mission... I noticed this: You do not *always* shoot down incomming missiles and fighters. This *does* make sense. If you *always* shot down every fighter and missile then your fleet would be very untouchable (except by direct fire weapons - which would make missiles and fighters useless as a whole).

I have noticed if you have "escort" ships with PD weapons and you have a ratio of 3 to 1 to mission ships... your escort vessels will shoot down most fighters and missiles before they can do damage. I have noticed on large fighter waves and large missile waves... some do get thru for a few moments.

I been playing around with mission designs. It seems carrier groups are the best way to go for the most part. I have noticed long range attack ships will rarely (if ever) fire PD weapons. Almost makes sense... they are long range weapon ships. I had the same problem with indirect fire ships. However, I did notice that if I labeled my main capital ships as "carriers" and gave it atleast 1 fighter... it worked the way I wanted so far. I have always seen carrier groups firing short range weapons (PD) and will, on occassions (when I get close enough) fire long range spinal weapons. This *does* make sense.

Carrier groups tend to be the jack-of-all-trade fleet groups in real life. Carriers have to launch fighters; they can also direct fire enemy ships; they can also launch missiles effectively; and they have to defend against enemy ships and fighters and missiles. Thus, I suspect MOO3 gave carrier groups a broader list of "possible" actions. I also suspect if you have a mission ship which is labeled as a "long range" mission ship... the short range (ie PD) are not as effective. I have noticed this as a whole. The reverse is also true. My vessels I label as "short range" missions tend not to do as well at long range... even if they have mostly long range weapons. Makes sense... why give a long range ship... short range weapons?

Yes, I have had problems with certain weapons (ie PD not firing). However, once I played around with mission types... my carrier groups seem to almost always work in any role. Just make sure you put a fighter in each main capital ship. Which can be both a blessing and a curse.

In multiplayer games (i have not played many so my experience is lower) I have noticed similar effects. As for the ALT-TAB issue... ALT-TAB will ruin the game it seems. So never ALT-TAB (in either mp or single).

[sUcKaGe]

There seems to be a solution for the alt+tab bug!
Found it in another thread, tried it and it really works.
Just hit Alt+tab+esc ! Problem solved :D

[Alarmer]

Iam a victim of Point Defense guns not firing at incoming missiles too :(

I mean i was quite shattered when my uber battleship fleet containing 6 battleships loaded to teeth with all kinda weapons plus escorting many PD ships. What happened.?

One puny missile base and couple lame stations just banged my fleet to pieces with missiles. As I counted I had well over 100 PD guns in my fleet, did they fire.. No :(

Its really weird bug since next time I did the same thing over again , naturally upgrading my battleships --> Dreaghnauts :D and insterted different kinda beam weapon mounts in em , then they shot the incoming missiles, not one got thru.

Definetly needs checking out, it aint funny when it happens to your fleet ;)

[DarkHawke]

BoydofZINJ, it's not that simple. Before the bug reared its head, I had task forces that were shooting down incoming missiles fine. If missiles were to hit while the PD weapons recycled, I'd not complain - missiles are supposed to have a faster fire rate than PD weapons (1 sec vs 1.87 sec).

However, if you had ever had this bug you'd notice the following:

Your fleets suddenly refuse to fire a single shot at incoming missiles. Ever. Period. Like the missiles are invisible. They WILL shoot at the fighters coming in before, at the same time, or after them, though. It doesn't matter if your ships have already fired or not, if they're holding position, moving, patrolling, or on attack orders. They ignore missiles entirely until they hit, and when you're talking missile salvos doing 40k+ damage, that's one vaporized TF. It only takes one missile to bust a ship.

For those of us who actually have seen the bug, I did notice one interesting thing: if you have several salvos fired at you (lucky me got 4 salvos shot at me at once a bit ago), then as soon as they destroy their primary target, your PD weapons will suddenly acquire them and blow them out of space. That 4 salvo shot took out one task force, and didn't get more than 5 pixels farther before my hundreds of Lightning Field Generators aquired and blew them to hell. Guess having those leftover BB-PD designs floating around as targets suddenly paid off.

Yes, before the bug, I'd set up TF in groups of 2 - one mission ship with a few PD, and another ship dedicated to PD to guard it. Now, of course, it's pointless, as I just lose 2 ships at a time instead of 1.

Anyway, it almost seems that this bug is based on some tech you acquire - I always reach a certain point, around 200 turns or so, then suddenly my PD weapons just stop working. Until then, they defend me against missiles just fine.

[stesergio]

Hmm, I can't wait to try this out. It took me forever to realize that a carrier would easily take out a planet with a beam base. Full of confidence I moved on to the next planet only to find out this one had a missle base and kicked my butt. I am now frantically building indirect fire and point defense ships. It is good to see that they really did make every type of ship necessary to have a truly effective fleet.

Of course if the point defense doesn't work that really does make the game unplayable. If the planet has a missle base you are stuck.

Well, I hope someone smarter than me figures this out.

[DarkHawke]

I just make sure to hit the planet with a few battleships that have huge numbers of one-shot missile racks and a few PD weapons for fighters. 10 TF's firing swarms of bugged missiles = 10 dead targets. With each in a different task force, that means I only lose 1 battleship per planet I hit.

[Tyrac]

Hi

Long thread on this in the bug forum

http://www.ina-community.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=269561

[richieelias]

Just posted a possible solution to this
and it may not be a bug, just a little more complexity to the combat engine
(and its ctrl+alt+esc refreshes the screen or something similar)

http://www.ina-community.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=270788

[DarkHawke]

I just posted what I thought might be the cause in the bug forum. Here's what I said:

What if the problem really is caused by calculation time? I know it LOOKS like results are applied about a half second before weapons hit, but that might not be the case.

What the bug MIGHT be is this:

Missiles are launched at target. At LAUNCH, hit% and damage are determined and stored in a buffer until applied. This is to take into account ships being destroyed by beam weapons while the IF are enroute. Now, if the missiles are launched from outside PD range, then the PD are IGNORED by the calculations, and the missiles are going to impact. If they're launched from inside range, PD engages.

This follows some observations I've had - fighters seem to follow a move-to command, followed by an attack command when they're in weapons range, which is why PD weapons can hit them. (That and the fact that they're treated as miniature ships.) Missiles, however, tend to launch from out of range.

Also, the buffer idea, comes from this: when a target is destroyed, missiles re-aquire. We've all seen it. At this point, the buffer is cleared, and combat is re-rolled for the missiles. Since by now the missiles are almost CERTAINLY inside PD range, the PD guns open up and cut them to shreds. I know that every time I've faced a multiple salvo, as soon as the first group of missiles destroyed their target, my PD weapons would open up. Yet a group of missiles launched later from a base out of weapon range would again get through unopposed.

Basically, if my theory is right, the problem is that missile damage is being determined at launch, and PD weapons were being left out of the equation due to the range between the launch system and the target. Simple logic error, but it might not be that easy to fix.

Then again, I could be WAY off-base.

Also, if anyone wants it, I can email them my own saved game with inoperative PD weapons.

* * *

Thoughts?

[BoydofZINJ]

Originally posted by DarkHawke


Then again, I could be WAY off-base.

Also, if anyone wants it, I can email them my own saved game with inoperative PD weapons.

* * *

Thoughts?


I suspect your on the right path and you might be right. Perhaps what is happening is weapons are being autocalculated at the time they are fired. I have seen this on many games. Even though the graphics have yet to reach the target... the target is already "damaged" or "destroyed."

However, I have seen my PD weapons fire from out of range. Now I have yet to encounter this bug. I am hoping I face some nasty missiles comming soon. I always build "Point Defense" escort ships. It is always nice to have atleast one+ scout on flotilla size groups or larger.

I suspect it might also be a bizzare bug which happens in a particular manner.

Perhaps people who experienced this problem explain what ships are in the task for and what missions they had?

I was also thinking... were these task force previosuly damaged or lost ships? Perhaps in previous battles they lost their "escort" damage. Perhaps in previous battles the ships were damaged where their PD weapons were destroyed?

Do ships take partial damage like in MOO2 and take time to repair as in MOO3? I do not remember "damage" on MOO3 ships. Perhaps there is... and we do not know it is slowly being repaired?

[DarkHawke]

I used to make PD escorts for every mission ship I fielded...right until I ran into this bug. I don't see much point in losing two ships at a time instead of one, however.

I think the problem starts for me when scanning tech begins allowing ships and planets to spot each other from outside weapon range. I'll watch for it next game - every game starts out with PD weapons working fine.

[DarkHawke]

Originally posted by BoydofZINJ
I suspect your on the right path and you might be right. Perhaps what is happening is weapons are being autocalculated at the time they are fired. I have seen this on many games. Even though the graphics have yet to reach the target... the target is already "damaged" or "destroyed."

However, I have seen my PD weapons fire from out of range. Now I have yet to encounter this bug. I am hoping I face some nasty missiles comming soon. I always build "Point Defense" escort ships. It is always nice to have atleast one+ scout on flotilla size groups or larger.

I suspect it might also be a bizzare bug which happens in a particular manner.

Perhaps people who experienced this problem explain what ships are in the task for and what missions they had?

I was also thinking... were these task force previosuly damaged or lost ships? Perhaps in previous battles they lost their "escort" damage. Perhaps in previous battles the ships were damaged where their PD weapons were destroyed?

Do ships take partial damage like in MOO2 and take time to repair as in MOO3? I do not remember "damage" on MOO3 ships. Perhaps there is... and we do not know it is slowly being repaired?

To continue...I was losing fresh task forces. No lost ships, as I initially encountered the bug with LR forces consisting of one LR battleship guarded by one PD battleship assigned to the escort ring. Brand-spanking new - they had never even fought before.

I have used, in no particular order, and in all combinations:

IF, SR, and LR task forces, single and multiple mission ships, brand new and experienced, with and without onboard PD, with and without PD escort, with and without a dedicated SR TF nearby to provide PD capability as well, and with and without recon ships. My PD of choice is the Lightning Field Generator, as missiles take very little damage to put down but can come in swarms; however, I have used practically every weapon up to LFG as point defense. I've not used anything more advanced, mainly because the weapons past LFG are too bulky to act as missile defense. They might do more damage, but I'd rather have 12 shots at 12 than 3 shots at 80 when a missile swarm is coming at me. Even armored/shielded missiles don't seem to have more than 20 hull points, so all that extra damage is wasted.

[BoydofZINJ]

What is your ratio of escort vessels to mission vessels?

I find a good ratio of 2 to 1 or 3 to 1 (2.5 to 1 to be exact) against alrge swarms of fighters and missiles. As a result, I always have escorts as 1 or 2 classes lower than my main ships. Plus they have to be fast.

With a DN carrier group I would have 1 DN and 2 cruider PD ships, for instance.

[Breschau]

This seems to be a *very* inconsistent bug.

Last night I had a fairly big battle where my armada(s) of missile and carrier ships assaulted a planet with a few small missile task forces, about 6 orbitals and a planet with all the bases.

I had it on Watch (I think), but given their mission types they all just sat still and fired all their missiles and fighters. Possibly I had it on Control and didn't give any orders since they launch automatically. I forget which it was. Either way, none of my task forces actually moved during the fight, they just sat there launching their ordinance.

The enemy fired a bunch of missile volleys at me. One volley (quite substantial in size) went to one carrier armada. A second volley of similar size went to another.

The first armada shot almost all the missiles down in a blaze of point defense fire (my armadas contained 6 carriers & 2 LR in the core and 8 point defense ships in the escort ring along with a couple EW recon ships in the picket).

At the same time, the second armada didn't fire a single point defense gun and got ripped up by the missiles.

:weird:

[Sky Keeper]

Maybe I'vge found a fix:

Edit file MissileInfo.txt and replace the Missile Min Dst of 39999 with 399999 and Missile MAx Dst of 40000 with 400000 - save changes and try your "PD broken" save - this change helped my pure LR TF to use spinals on incoming missiles (IF TF not visible)(no other mounts). Tested 5 times.

Please report the results!!!!

[Darkchampion]

OMG ITS SO BEAUTIFUL!

MY LIGHTNING FIELD GENERATORS WORK!!!!!!
THANK YOU!

[Juergen]

Im not sure I understand correctly.

You do mean the the MissileInfo text in the "spreadsheets.mob" right?

But I cant find the values that you mentioned in there.
At least not by that name.

[Schneeflocke]

What Jürgen said. There are two entries with the values you mentioned.

Also, I'd like to know what these entries do and why PD works if you change them. It sounds like these entries determine the detection and/or firing range and I am not sure I like to change them without knowing exactly, so please explain.

[Juergen]

Id really like to test the Fix now...but I really like to know what their names are in the text.
I just can find "MaxRange"or "MinRange".

And this text file IS in the "spreadsheet.mob"?
I can find a "missile.txt" in there but the file doesnt contain the names that where mentioned.

[Sky Keeper]

Sorry, didn't look at the names and these are the only fields with such numbers.

spreadsheets.mob - MissileInfo.txt

table: warheads

values: DmgDisSt, DmgDisEn, AccDisSt, AccDisEn

These values are used by beam weapons to scale damage and accurancy from the maximum at close range and minimum at long range. They define that Max and Min range(weapons can fire at targets that are closer, but all calculations are made as if at Min range). And since missiles always do the same damage and have the same accuracy regardless of range they are set to 39999-40000. Making these values larger seems to correct target aqusition bug and won't modify other properties of warheds (since they actually have unlimited range and require only a target lock to fire).

BTW: you can emulate Moo2:Plasma torpedo if you wish - damage can be reduced by range the same way as for beam weapons.

[rdrunner]

*tagging this thread for home use...*

[XenoArch]

Originally posted by Malkuth74
Go to the Bugs board. This bug has been reported. And the only fix right now is not to Alt Tab.



I know not to alt tab.. cause its not supported.. I'm saying because other bugs occure when you alt tab.. maybe the misfireing or non fireing of point defense only occurs after an atl-tab.. (infact i never alt tabed, as i read the readme when it was released on the net the day before it came out, i accidently hit the "window logo" button.)

[Juergen]

Alright I tested it...

Now it seems that the TFs fire their PD weapons 20% of the time instead of 0% :bulb:
Short Range TF seem to be most succesfull when it comes to shooting at missiles.
And if have seen a Long Range TF fire at the missiles for the first but so far only time.

This is not enough to be able to play the game properly :(

The combat system seems to be poorly coded :mad:

This game has been delayed so often and it still comes with showstopping bugs like this!

[Weaselteats]

Please keep the whining in the Whining...I mean General Discussions forum.

[Tyrac]

Well if you got it to improve by 20% from 0 that is a good sign. Possibly adding yet another digit to each number will fix it?

[Xentropy]

Originally posted by Weaselteats
Please keep the whining in the Whining...I mean General Discussions forum.

Actually, this a bug, and a very serious one. It is not "whining", and does not belong in GD. It doesn't belong in strategy either, however, and there are already two threads about this bug in the proper forum (bug reports).

[Juergen]

I already tried that,it seems to stay at "once in while".

Missiles are so deadly that a single volley can destroy a fleet so the PD has to work as good as possible.

[Dracil Cegon]

Have you guys tried the 20 Nuclear missiles work-around? Apparently if you have missiles on your ship, the PD will work, but if it runs out of missiles, your PD will no longer work.

Which leads me to believe that they messed up a variable somewhere, something like the following.

instead of:
if (detectEnemyMissile) firePDWeapons;
they have:
if (detectPlayerMissile) firePDWeapons;

Which would explain why if you have missiles, your PD weapons would fire, but once you run out, they stop firing.

I tried it last night, and with only 2 LR dreadnaughts and I think 1 or 2 Cruisers with the nuclear missiles + the other 30 ships that used to get eaten alive by missiles, I was able to shoot down almost every missile volley and fighter wave, unless I my TFs were too close to begin with (then it can still take out like 50-80% of the missiles)

[Artuk]

Could it be that your PD is not accuarate enough to hit the missiles, so the AI seeks other targets?

Just a guess.

Regards,

Artuk

[Telastyn]

I've seen PD ships without missiles work properly.

[oleg78]

What can I use to open a .mob file? I'm trying to edit this MissilesInfo.txt file.. but not sure where it is.javascript:smilie(':rolleyes:')
Roll Eyes (sarcastic)

thanks

[kalbear]

Here's what I think it is. This is a wacky thing, but it might be correct:

The first volley fired always hits. Then after it's all about what PD you have. I've seen this happen where I'll fire a volley from my IF, take out the beam base on a planet without a hitch (at least the bug is symmetrical...) and then shoot down the return volley of missiles.

The other idea is that it's the fighter/missile tradeoff. Namely, when fighters and missiles target the same TF, that TF goes into an engage mode and picks one to shoot over the other. It picks fighters first. Which is a shame, because missile salvoes can wipe out an entire behemoth armada in one shot, even if half of 'em are PD specific.

I've also had more success shooting down things when I attack-move - attack a space, not a unit in specific.

ETA: mob files are zip files. Just use winzip or your favorite decompression utility. And no, not the thing you get in to cure bends.

[DarkHawke]

What is your ratio of escort vessels to mission vessels?

I find a good ratio of 2 to 1 or 3 to 1 (2.5 to 1 to be exact) against alrge swarms of fighters and missiles. As a result, I always have escorts as 1 or 2 classes lower than my main ships. Plus they have to be fast.

With a DN carrier group I would have 1 DN and 2 cruider PD ships, for instance.

__________________
***************
-BoydofZINJ

Been there, did that. That was my standard formation, actually, until the bug kicked in.

Originally posted by Dracil Cegon
Have you guys tried the 20 Nuclear missiles work-around? Apparently if you have missiles on your ship, the PD will work, but if it runs out of missiles, your PD will no longer work.

Which leads me to believe that they messed up a variable somewhere, something like the following.

instead of:
if (detectEnemyMissile) firePDWeapons;
they have:
if (detectPlayerMissile) firePDWeapons;

Which would explain why if you have missiles, your PD weapons would fire, but once you run out, they stop firing.

I tried it last night, and with only 2 LR dreadnaughts and I think 1 or 2 Cruisers with the nuclear missiles + the other 30 ships that used to get eaten alive by missiles, I was able to shoot down almost every missile volley and fighter wave, unless I my TFs were too close to begin with (then it can still take out like 50-80% of the missiles)

All of my missile ships come equipped with point defense systems that refuse to engage.

[Dracil Cegon]

Hmm, are those missile ships using PD Nuclear missile racks of 20 1-shot racks? If you don't have any missile volleys left, your PD weapons will stop working again. Also, perhaps this only works with LR ships, or maybe only with Spinal Mounts (which have the range to shoot the missiles from afar)

[BoydofZINJ]

The other thing I was thinking of is ECM vs ECM

Could it be that the enemy is using ECM and yoru not using enough ECCM?

ECM is suppose to make weapons missfire (ie miss more) ... could it be that your fleet does not have enough ECM vs ECCM?

Infact, if fleet A has 9 ECM and fleet B has 8 ECCM would fleet A be able to make fleet B's weapon misfire more? I believe missiles may have some natural ECM -or- they have a penality to hit. (the last part is purely just thought's of a madman) So if missiles have a slight penality to hit them and they are covered with great ECM... that would make them very hard to hit?

[kalbear]

And I swear, I've seen it against IF armadas. They don't fire either. They just sit there and take it. And it sucks a lot.

I really don't think it's missiles on board, because, well, they do fire some of the time. If it were that, they'd never fire ever if they didn't have missiles, and we know that's not true. They do fire. Just not in that first all-important volley of doom.

[Trystan_UZI]

Originally posted by digicrab
Whoa! Do you know what you're talking about there? What part of MOO2 do you want to reuse exacly?

I would say they used maybe a little less than half of MOO2. Looks at the screens and compare them to the screens in MOO2. You'll begin to see how similiar the 2 games are. I think from MOO1 to MOO2 the change was alot more.

[Dracil Cegon]

IF armadas don't generally have LR Spinal mounts do they? That might be why.

I could send my savegame (if I had somewhere to put it) so you can look at the design and just how effectively they worked.

[DarkHawke]

The IF ships have 4 volleys remaining when they get blown to hell. Lack of missiles is NOT the problem.

When missiles are only fired from inside the engagement range of weapons, even exhausted IF ships engage their PD systems. The problem only seems to occur when the missiles are launched from extreme range.

And I assume Ultimate Sensors and ECCM V not letting missiles fire would be good enough? The problem only occurs on extreme range launches, which is part of what led to my theory (posted earlier) about what causes the bug.

[Dracil Cegon]

What PD systems are your IF ships using, and are any of your missiles PD sized?

How extreme is considered an extreme range? And how would you explain the fact that just adding 4 ships with the design I said made the difference between losing 5 ships with beam weapons shooting down missiles and fighters long before they are in range vs. losing 40-50 ships to missiles with occasional lightning field generators engaging?

It's possible the 20 PD Nuclear Missile fix only works with LR TFs too.

[DarkHawke]

Because your design blows the hell out of the planet before it gets off a second salvo. I only lose one ship per planet assult now, since I make SURE to send enough missile ships that the planet only shoots once.

In fleet battles, missiles launched from inside about spinal range for your PD weapons get targeted, as do missiles that reaquire inside that range. (Watch sometime when you have multiple salvos incoming. The first destroys a TF, the rest reaquire, and suddenly the PD systems come online. Another salvo launched from the planet, however, or from any ship out of normal engagement range, will again get through unopposed.)

[Dracil Cegon]

No, my ships didn't engage the planets for several minutes. It survived SEVERAL salvos, most of which did 0 damage to my ships. It was busy engaging their armada of 19 system ships.

EVERY missile salvo was fired at by my beam weapons, whether from IF system ships or from the planet or orbitals. The only ones that got through were the ones that were fired too close for the PD weapons to shoot them all done before they impacted.

Edit: I just tested it again, lost 9 ships total with only a fleet of 27 ships. And only *Four* ships having the nukes, with most of the armament being Spinal Ion Cannons. As long as it didn't just fire its weapons, it would *always* engage the missile salvos, even from planets, even the first salvo.

Also, is 15 grids diagonally considered extreme range enough for you? I tried adding another LR TF that did not have the nukes to compare, and this TF was hit by the missiles. However, the original LR TF from above with the nukes fired at all missiles and fighters coming at them.

Because you or someone was saying PD wouldn't work at extreme range, and it most certainly worked at this range, which meant 2 different salvos of missiles and fighters were shot down by this TF.

Again, give me a place to put the save and I'll let you test it out yourself.

[Vallis]

Just to update everyone in this thread, there was another thread on this topic called "Point Defense is BROKEN!". The people in that thread have figured out an interested feature, and temporary solution to the point defense bug (though I must confess that I haven't yet tried it myself).

Apparently, as long as EVERY ship in EVERY task force in an battle has missiles loaded on it, all your point defense ships should fire at incoming missiles. If any one of your ships runs out of missiles, your fleet's missile defense could disappear!

In other words, make sure that each of your ships (even your recon ships) has about 20 volleys of your smallest, cheapest missiles in 1 rack. That should last through the battle, and keep your point defense ships alert!

I'm going to try this myself, soon, but post here if the solution works. QuickSilver has stated that they are working on the problem, and the sooner they get this additional info, the more likely they will quickly find the problem, and fix it.

I hope this helps.
I hope this works.

[Dracil Cegon]

That's what I've been trying to tell DarkHawke for the last 3 or 4 posts. :haha:

I don't think all the ships need to have the missiles though, as I only had 4 ships out of an armada with the missiles and it still worked. Granted, these 4 ships had massive firepower to take down the missiles and fighters (2 were dreadnaught sized, and 2 were somewhere between light cruiser and battleship sized)

[Vallis]

Just to clearify, your point defense BEAM WEAPONS will not reliably fire at enemy missiles unless YOUR ships are loaded with ANY KIND of missiles. These missiles need not be point defense missiles. They have nothing to do with the combat, and don't even need to fire. They just need to be there, or the point defense BEAM WEAPONS probably won't fire at enemy missiles. Run out of these missiles, and point defense BEAM WEAPONS will stop protecting your ships.

This is NOT common sense. It makes NO sense. It is clearly a bug that needs to be fixed.

[Dracil Cegon]

Oh, it most certainly is a bug and should be fixed. I mean, I am wasting a lot of space on those missiles which could be better served with real weapons.

While ships you want Beam weapons to fire need the missiles, not all ships in your Armada need the missiles, that's what I was trying to say earlier.

[BoydofZINJ]

I tested this PD bug and I have noticed a few things.

Missile damage seems to be calculated when they are launched. I had a small group of three task force at extreme range of a planet. The enemy planet fired its missiles and I noticed my "health" bar decreased BEFORE the missiles graphics hit my ships.

Playing around. I noticed that some of my tasks forces were not firing either! Then I inspected the fleet (from a previous save). They were my older fleets with old weapons... I would presume that if a single PD will not destroy a missile... it does not bother firing at it? (I rarely scrap fleets... even ships I created back on turn 100 and it is turn 500-ish) :)

Mind you, I have not seen extremes of this bug yet. I decided not to try missiles and see if I can win engagements on hard against the computer missile planets... will let you know.

[jatdrago]

Don't know if this matters, but while blockading a planet that sometimes launched a colony ship, I would notice the colony ship's health bar go down before any weapon graphics hit it. I had missiles and beams.

[Saratoga]

Yes, the game graphics and damage calculations lag for all weapons its seems. Youll see the damage bar go down, then the number will pop up and your missile or beam will hit.

[BoydofZINJ]

After some testing...

I found out why my carrier CV groups were so effecitive... MISSILES and FIGHTERS are similar...

If you have a pure "beam" ship... sometimes PD will NOT work (if the missiles are fired out of range).

However, just with the missile solution... another solution can be found as well... you can also launch fighters from extreme range and thus when your fighters are OUT... your task group's PD weapons work perfectly. As a result, carriers are a good way to kill planets, other ships, and use your PD weapons effectively. Plus you do not have to use mods that "cheat"... most fighters are very useful... Placing 1+ interceptor on a cruiser PD ship or larger PD ship is another effective means to making sure you have enough fighters to stay in for the long run.

[Insipid]

I agree with BoydofZINJ's tactic of using Carriers to work around the PD problem, but for a different reason.

I used to have major problems like the rest of you, losing task forces to planetary missile bases as a result of PD not firing, then I started using carriers with tons of fighters.

The thing is, if you launch your fighters against the planetary missile bases from extreme range, the planetary missile bases(and enemy IF task forces) seem to always launch their missiles against these fighters! Since the missiles don't even target your TFs, you don't need to worry that your PD doesn't fire vs the missiles. Using this strategy, nowadays I don't even lose any TFs when taking planets.

Well, don't know if it'll work for everyone, but hope it helps.

[BoydofZINJ]

Originally posted by Insipid
I agree with BoydofZINJ's tactic of using Carriers to work around the PD problem, but for a different reason.

I used to have major problems like the rest of you, losing task forces to planetary missile bases as a result of PD not firing, then I started using carriers with tons of fighters.

The thing is, if you launch your fighters against the planetary missile bases from extreme range, the planetary missile bases(and enemy IF task forces) seem to always launch their missiles against these fighters! Since the missiles don't even target your TFs, you don't need to worry that your PD doesn't fire vs the missiles. Using this strategy, nowadays I don't even lose any TFs when taking planets.

Well, don't know if it'll work for everyone, but hope it helps.


Oddly it seems that the enemy rarely targets my fighters... sometimes they do.. most of the time they do not

[Telastyn]

Originally posted by Xentax
Yeah, this issue has been documented and is being worked on. It can REALLY suck to have such a volley decimate your ships when you KNOW they could be shooting the birds down before impact.

It has something to do with the way the TF is attacking a target, but the details haven't trickled down to my ears yet.

It can help if your TFs are *not* currently following an order to attack something, but it still doesn't work 100%. So, try having your TF follow a move or patrol order when there's inbound missiles or fighters, and see if that helps. I generally move my TFs by giving them move or patrol orders to the vicinity of their targets, and only giving attack orders when I actually want them to fire on a specific target (one in close range, or to ensure their missiles head for a particularly high-priority target, etc.).

Let me know if that helps, and especially if it doesn't.

*bump*

[Soapyfrog]

Didn't work for me... but then nothing has, really.

The problem seems to occur for me only when attacking missile base-defended planets.

[BoydofZINJ]

Originally posted by Soapyfrog
Didn't work for me... but then nothing has, really.

The problem seems to occur for me only when attacking missile base-defended planets.

Are you using heavy carriers? best thing to do... is on cruiser PD ships or larger to put 1 or 2 interceptors on each ship and (even PD ships) and 10+ fighters on carriers and carriers and their PD escorts normally kill missiles outright.

[boinshar]

Carriers' fighter/intercepters do not fire on incomming missles if you have already launched them at a target.

They also do not fire UNLESS you launch them at a specific target.

The only time I've seen fighters/intercepters firing at missles is when 1) the computer auto-launchs them during Watch mode 2) they've destroyed their primary target, and any targets of the same type, then they home in on the closest target.

Launching fighters at extreme range at a planetary base that you can see *seems* to activate all weapons as the carrier TF retreats--but may whatever god you believe in help you when the only thing you see on the screen is a volley of missles capable of taking out two of your TFs before you even see the enemy.

[BoydofZINJ]

Originally posted by boinshar


Launching fighters at extreme range at a planetary base that you can see *seems* to activate all weapons as the carrier TF retreats--but may whatever god you believe in help you when the only thing you see on the screen is a volley of missles capable of taking out two of your TFs before you even see the enemy.

That is why having great ECM and cloak (phased cloak) is so great... also... why having great ECCM is pretty much a must have as well !!!

Every ship I have ... has atleast ECM or ECCM or both... depending... the huge capital ships (DN or better .. i have both).

[F.O.H.]

I too have seen this behavior in my space battles. However I have seen my pd's take out incoming missiles also, so I have seen both. Works against fighters everytime, but against missiles it is hit or miss. :confused:

The times I have seen point defense work is under these conditions:
1) The task force that was about to be impacted was on the move to engage the enemy. In other words they were not meandering around like bunch carrier cattle grazing in space.

2) The point defense usually kicks in when incoming missiles can be shot down from the vessel's point defense forward arc.

Otherwise your task force is toast! :eek:

I was thinking about using a vessel that carried missile point defense. I see that someone had mentioned this in an earlier post but I have yet to implement it in a task force to see if it is an effective work around.

[[SDO]Guardian]

Placing a missile PD with a high rack number fixes this problem. Beam PD will fire if the missile pd exists with ammo. New Orion is impossible to do without PD unless your war machine can provide for huge armada losses.

Still don't know what ECM/ECCM do or how they work. Or the Sensors. Or how to control fighters the way the AI can (vector to intercept Threat PD targets, etc...)

[Khendraja'aro]

Nope. Adding a missile rack with 20 missiles in it won't solve the problem.

In my case this meant that the first enemy missile volley was engaged - while the second one tore right through my defenses (first one did 100 damage, second 2000 and blew up all my PD ships, two recons and one escort)

[DarkHawke]

Originally posted by Khendraja'aro
Nope. Adding a missile rack with 20 missiles in it won't solve the problem.

In my case this meant that the first enemy missile volley was engaged - while the second one tore right through my defenses (first one did 100 damage, second 2000 and blew up all my PD ships, two recons and one escort)

You must be lucky, then. For everyone else, one 20-shot PD missile rack has solved the bug.

Are you sure you didn't get caught in the PD weapons' 1.87 second recharge time? If you face two salvos a second apart, your PD will still be recharging when the second salvo hits.

[oreo_kookie]

There is another way to fix the problem...at least for me.

Build all your taskforce as recon taskforce (put any ship you want in it, as long as you have enough recons to make it a legit taskforce), and they will shoot at anything and everything, including missiles.

[Khendraja'aro]

Originally posted by DarkHawke
Are you sure you didn't get caught in the PD weapons' 1.87 second recharge time? If you face two salvos a second apart, your PD will still be recharging when the second salvo hits. I'm sure that it was not the recharge-time that hindered the PD from firing. I even had time to press "stop" for my TF when I saw the incoming missiles to see if my ships engaged the missiles. At that time the planets missile base was the only enemy left.

As for "everyone": There are other people stating that this did not solve the problem completely.

[boinshar]

In order for the PD missle work-around to be effective, a few things must be true.

1) Your TF is not currently targetting anything in particular.

2) You issued the Halt, Move, Attack-Move (with no targets in sight), or Patrol command to your TFs.

3) You have to have at least 1 full rack of PD missles currently on board, and they must be loaded (reload timer done).

The only other time your PD guns will fire at missles is when there are more than 1 volley comming at you, the first volley lands, then any recharged PD guns that are still functioning will fire on the 2nd volley + however many volleys you see on the screen.

20 missles in 1 rack simply activates your guns on the 1st volley of missles if the above criteria are met. If all missles on your screen are destroyed, or dissapears, the 1st volley from the 2nd wave of launches will land while your PD guns are silent, and the cycle continues.

20 racks of 1 missle each works better, since you have a chance to shoot down 20 volleys of missles... but you still have to meet the above criteria.

[Sorceresse]

Thanks, Boinshar : that's the best explanation I've seen thus far. I have copied it in a WordPad file to study it later.

[Chinova]

The way I understand the problem is it appears not straight away but after some time spent playing the game. The BT presumably did not see this problem or they would have brought it to QS attention. The bug occurs to a percentage of gamers, how large or small is impossible to tell since only those who get it will complain and then only some of those, not all.

It could be something like memory management, perhaps buffer overflow that has caused security problems with software from Microsoft. Only speculation on my behalf, but QS will hopefully fix more than just the AI in their first patch.

[[SDO]Guardian]

I build small 6-8 rack PD mounts in my early ships, since they're small (lc/ca/bc usually). When I go to BBs and above, I put 20"missiles per rack" nuclear missile point defense mount, on all ships (mission, escort, pd).

Beam ships, especially LR with 12-15GM+ range, will fire even heavy and ultraheavy mount beam weapons in PD mode on missiles and fighters out to full range. It acts as you think it should, if you get around the bug. Enough LR firepower can cover an entire fleet in PD mode during combat.

My last game used multiple LR Titan and Bememoth armadas with minor integral Missile and Fighter salvos to attack and hold the orbitals over Orion for ten turns while I waved armor armies in to secure a planetary beachhead. Heavy and UHeavy mount phasers and plasma cannons, with some megabolt and disruptor models too. PD mount phasers on the escort/picket ring ships. Worked perfectly. (whisper-fix bug-whisper)

[BoydofZINJ]

Originally posted by oreo_kookie
There is another way to fix the problem...at least for me.

Build all your taskforce as recon taskforce (put any ship you want in it, as long as you have enough recons to make it a legit taskforce), and they will shoot at anything and everything, including missiles.

I never tested this one... I will have to run a pure no fighter and no missile task force to see if this works. I would suspect it would not work... but hey if it does... it would mean recon task force are as powerful... or more so than carrier and IF task forces.

As for the missiles... yes... I tend to not fire my PDs if my missiles are out of ammo. This is one of the reasons I use fighters... they have an unlimited ammo... and assuming you have atleast a healthly amount they will survive until the next volley spits out
- meaning your PD weapons will be working normally.

However, 2 things...

1. IF I remember correctly, a PD weapon will only fire at a missile once... so if a single PD will not destroy a single missile... then you are wasting space.

2. PD weapons do have a recharge time... as a result, if they just fired... they will have to cool down for a few seconds before they fire again.

[Morris13]

Maybe I'm just missing something obvious, but why would you ever NEED to use a PD-specific ship at all? What I've been doing is building Recon ships with heavy PD weaponry, and I haven't had any trouble with them not firing at inbound missiles or fighters, and I can use them in the Picket ring, which I don't think you can do with PD ships. This seems to have completely bypassed the PD bug for me.

[[SDO]Guardian]

I build my Recon as armed picket as well (and usually full sized hulls too). I also am putting ecm/eccm in recon and have been experimenting with doubling and tripling that and the sensors (anyone know what it does to have x(>1)? But for Orion assault fleets (or I guess vs MP) 2-3 dedicated full sized hull PD ships in escort give that mega umph to shield vs missiles.

Still carting 12 mission ships with heavy broadsides.

[Telastyn]

Originally posted by Chinova
The way I understand the problem is it appears not straight away but after some time spent playing the game. The BT presumably did not see this problem or they would have brought it to QS attention. The bug occurs to a percentage of gamers, how large or small is impossible to tell since only those who get it will complain and then only some of those, not all.

It could be something like memory management, perhaps buffer overflow that has caused security problems with software from Microsoft. Only speculation on my behalf, but QS will hopefully fix more than just the AI in their first patch.

If you look earlier in this thread, it's been stated that it was noticed by a BT before release, and QS was made aware of it.

Given the quirky nature of the bug it could well be something caused by a completely unrelated piece of code.


@morris: recon ships cannot be 'escorts', and thus some of the larger TF's that require escorts are suddenly unavailable. (easily circumvented by LR mission ships with much PD. Personally I put pd on everything)

[Swift_Death]

What did you use to defeat orion system defence ships?

I used 8 Behemoths 4 LR with 10+ megabolt cannons, and several ionic rocket chassis missles. 4 that had 10+ super space fighter chassis with disruptor weapons. and numurous pd and recon ships for defence


i blockaded Orion to draw the defence ships out and committed...


my weapons didnt even scratch the ships. my swarms of fighters died faster then a klackon being sprayed with a massive can of raid!!! my megabolts took 8 firings to knock down the shields and the ionic missles were doing over 2k damage but not denting the ships!!!

Please help!!!

[BoydofZINJ]

Originally posted by Swift_Death
What did you use to defeat orion system defence ships?

I used 8 Behemoths 4 LR with 10+ megabolt cannons, and several ionic rocket chassis missles. 4 that had 10+ super space fighter chassis with disruptor weapons. and numurous pd and recon ships for defence


i blockaded Orion to draw the defence ships out and committed...


my weapons didnt even scratch the ships. my swarms of fighters died faster then a klackon being sprayed with a massive can of raid!!! my megabolts took 8 firings to knock down the shields and the ionic missles were doing over 2k damage but not denting the ships!!!

Please help!!!

You used less than 20 ships? well... I suspect then you just got swarmed to death... try having 5+ armadas ... might as well go for 9 "war" armadas and 1 transport armada

[[SDO]Guardian]

vs high TL armor and shields, you must use weapons with punch to inflict actual damage. Also be aware of how to work around PD bug.

[MadJackMcJack]

Originally posted by Morris13
Maybe I'm just missing something obvious, but why would you ever NEED to use a PD-specific ship at all? What I've been doing is building Recon ships with heavy PD weaponry, and I haven't had any trouble with them not firing at inbound missiles or fighters, and I can use them in the Picket ring, which I don't think you can do with PD ships. This seems to have completely bypassed the PD bug for me.

That's what I did. Designated a ship as a recon, then put in whatever the hell I wanted. Worked a charm, as the bug happens to me, but only if there are other, non-PD weapons on board.

[Swift_Death]

You used less than 20 ships? well... I suspect then you just got swarmed to death... try having 5+ armadas ... might as well go for 9 "war" armadas and 1 transport armada



I attacked with 476 ships..... i got past the initial 18 system defence ships only losing 25/98 ships... (why cant i use all of them?)

then i blockaded again and their task forces attacked me, 1 LR Wave with 12 ships, a carrier Armada with 18 ships, and a SR Wave with 12 ships. I can destroy the LR before all 98 ships get destroyed... its those *$#^#@ fighters. What is the best weapon for fighter killing? im currently using pd lightning fields and pd desintigration beams.


P.S. did you use 5 armadas that had only leviathins as core?

[BoydofZINJ]

Originally posted by Swift_Death

P.S. did you use 5 armadas that had only leviathins as core?

Diversity is the way to win...

Lightning field generator beam PD.... ahhh that is why you are loosing... not enough damage per shot... You need a few stronger PD weapons... to kill a fighter outright... also design a super heavy missile PD boat with many reloads and many racks... and place it on escort duty. I also have a few leviathin escort PD ships with mauler PDs... a mauler PD will outright kill a fighter... the "trick" with PDs... is having some of everything... you need a good healthly amount of lightning PDs as well as some heavy and hard hitting PDs... It is best to get a decent amount of both... and a few fighters...

right now... every ship (mid to late game) gets atleast 1 or 2 fighters... and some ships are very missile intensive... to last 6+ shots... if you run out of missiles during the fighter stage... your toast!

[BoydofZINJ]

Just remember... 1+ fighter per ship and/or 1 nuclear missile + 15 reloads seem to work wonders...

since I hate missiles... I use the 1+ fighter per ship and I rarely get this "PD bug"

[Hecatæus]

I have not been playing much and there hasn't been much combat in my games, so I have not really noticed the PD bug much...this will change.

Given all this wifty advice, and the new patch...
It sounds that since PD missiles fire very fast now, the only way to really keep PD Direct Fire wepons strong is to include 1+ fighter in every ship as a good overall policy.


What is the best overall thing to do now?

[robertr4836]

Originally posted by Cephalopod
I'd guess it's rare enough not to be a problem. I haven't seen it yet...
You won't notice it in the early game but once the enemy has enough missiles to take out an Armada sized TF in one wave you won't be so complacent.

[visage]

Originally posted by Hecatæus
I have not been playing much and there hasn't been much combat in my games, so I have not really noticed the PD bug much...this will change.

Given all this wifty advice, and the new patch...
It sounds that since PD missiles fire very fast now, the only way to really keep PD Direct Fire wepons strong is to include 1+ fighter in every ship as a good overall policy.


What is the best overall thing to do now?

If fighters work, use those, definitely. I've never tested it. Otherwise, use the largest non-torpedo missile chassis you've got.

[BoydofZINJ]

hmmmm

[Beamup]

And the point of resurrecting a three-month-old thread that has no applicability post-patch to say "hmmm" was what, exactly? FYI, while I'm not going to report this one, that sort of thing gets you warning levels for spamming.