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Shuma
03-04-2003, 11:26 PM
I can't vouch 100% for all the information here. It's based on the spreadsheets and my gameplay observations, so take it all with a grain of salt.

Shuma's Government Guide, or How to Pick the Right Government For You

Picking the right government for your empire is very important. It affects pretty much every area of your civilization. Unfortunately, there isn't much documentation out there, and so making an educated decision is pretty much impossible. My first few games I basically stuck with the default. Hopefully I can shed some light on this currently obscured topic.

First off, with the exception of the Ithkul, all races have the same oppresometer tolerance. The ability to oppress more or less comes from your government. Ithkul recieve a +1 tolerance under all governments, and can work their FLUs to the bone.

Also, as it stands, it behooves a player to switch governments every so often. You get a Heavy Foot reduction each time you do it. You can switch back to your main form after you've gotten your HFoG down. As long as you can keep your unrest under control, it's well worth the trouble. HFoG becomes a huge strain later in the game. Hopefully, this aspect of the game will change, because it seems like an exploit to me. The AIs never take advantage of it, and so will have huge HFoG's later in the game.

I put the information in two formats: a numerical percentage, and a relative rating. I included a rating because the numbers can be deceptive. For example, an Oligarchy doesn't actually decrease your industrial production. However, relative to the other governments, you will be lagging behind, so Oligarchy is given a poor rating for Industry.

Anyhow, on with the show.

The Absolutist Series

The Absolutist series isn't bad, and its main benefit is that it is the default for most races. You don't have to use any points to gain what benefits these governments have to offer. Most of these government types are specialized and usually have significant drawbacks. However, if you can neutralize the problems associated with your government of choice, they can be pretty darn good.

Despotism

Despotism can be a solid government under certain conditions, but is usually not a good choice.

Bioharvesting: 80% (Very Poor)
Mining: 100% (Poor)
Industry: 120% (Good)
Research: 95% (Poor)
Military: 130% (Good)
Recreation: 95% (Below Avg)
Spaceport: 100% (Average)

Heavy Foot of Government: 104% (Poor)
Oppressometer Cost: 93% (Good)

Oppressometer Range: 5 to 9
Forced Labor Range: 3 to 7

Government DEA Unrest Modifier: 50%
Military DEA Unrest Modifier: 150%

Most civilizations don't have much of a need for what Despotism has to offer. It doesn't shine in any economic areas, though the Industry bonus is solid. You take a big hit in bioharvesting, and your research will suffer. However, if you're a militant sort of civilization, or if you are looking to track down those pesky spies, this is the pick for you. Despotism shines in its ability to weed out spies via the oppressometer. Your military DEAs will enjoy a huge boost in effectiveness as well. You can crank up the taxes and really milk your people for all they're worth if you have enough military DEAs to keep the populace contained. You can also cruelly oppress your FLUs and squeeze more production from them than any other government.

Harvesters are the perfect fit for this type of government. They are pretty much invulnerable to spies, and you can max out the oppressometer to put the kibosh on enemy agents if some should miraculously get through. It also fits perfectly with their brutal heritage.

Other races should pick Despotism (or switch to it temporarliy) if they feel they are too weak against spies.

Monarchy

Monarchy is a default for many civilizations. Most would benefit from an early change to Constitutional Monarchy.

Bioharvesting: 80% (Very Poor)
Mining: 100% (Poor)
Industry: 130% (Superior)
Research: 90% (Very Poor)
Military: 110% (Average)
Recreation: 95% (Below Avg)
Spaceport: 105% (Good)

Heavy Foot of Government: 105% (Poor)
Oppressometer Cost: 94% (Good)

Oppressometer Range: 3 to 7
Forced Labor Range: 2 to 6

Government DEA Unrest Modifier: 50%
Military DEA Unrest Modifier: 150%

Monarchies are the most common of the absolutist series. In some ways, they don't have much going for them. Your bioharvesting and research are dead last and the other categories are nothing to shout about. However, your Industry will thrive like no other. Only Parliamentary has such a big Industry bonus. Monarchies are also pretty solid against spies, since you can boost the oppressometer up to 7 if need be. Like Despotism, your government DEAs will not be very effective in controlling the populace, but your military ones will excel.

I'd say the Silicoids could benefit from a Monarchy the most. It's arguable, definitely. The research hit is not something they can really afford, but Monarchy's bioharvesting problems are eliminated. Meklars and Cynoids also do well under a Monarchy. Their massive industrial bonuses are increased even further, and again, the bioharvesting hit isn't bad at all.

Any empire that likes Industry will get along well with a Monarchy.

Oligarchy

Oligarchies can be summed up in one word: research.

Bioharvesting: 90% (Poor)
Mining: 90% (Very Poor)
Industry: 100% (Poor)
Research: 120% (Superior)
Military: 100% (Poor)
Recreation: 100% (Average)
Spaceport: 105% (Good)

Heavy Foot of Government: 99% (Average)
Oppressometer Cost: 101% (Below Avg)

Oppressometer Range: 2 to 6
Forced Labor Range: 2 to 6

Oligarchies exist to promote research, plain and simple. In most other economic categories they are below average. They aren't really a good choice for most empires. You can't really go too crazy with the oppressometer, so spies will be able to take a crack at you. However, don't be afraid to pump it up temporarily to take care of spies if they are running rampant against you.

Any research race will be able to speed up development even more with this government. Imagine Psilons or Nommo powered up with an extra 20% research. As long as you can bring your tech advantage to bear, the hits in the other areas won't matter.

Constitutional Monarchy

Constitutional Monarchies are average performers, suitable for any empire that doesn't want to weaken itself in any one area.

Bioharvesting: 100% (Average)
Mining: 100% (Poor)
Industry: 100% (Poor)
Research: 100% (Below Average)
Military: 100% (Poor)
Recreation: 120% (Superior)
Spaceport: 100% (Average)

Heavy Foot of Government: 101% (Below Avg)
Oppressometer Cost: 100% (Average)

Oppressometer Range: 2 to 6
Forced Labor Range: 0 to 4

C. Monarchies are nothing special, and so I would recommend them to an empire trying to balance its skills in all areas. You're not going to shore up any weaknesses here, nor will you stand out in any one area. There isn't much to say about C. Monarchies because they are pretty generic. If you're not sure what to go with, the C. Monarchy is always a solid choice.

The other government series will follow if you guys find this information useful.

Monjardin
03-04-2003, 11:36 PM
Great info, thanks! A lot more specific than the strat guide...

Calacorm
03-04-2003, 11:41 PM
This is a great post and I hope to see more info on governments.
It is allot better then the manuals generic terms!

Personally I would of made the post look nicer though; bold and underline headings and that sort of thing.

There could be a sticky in the future for this one :up:

RobNelson
03-04-2003, 11:42 PM
Thanks, Shuma! :up:

Most helpful, indeed! :D

kalbear
03-04-2003, 11:56 PM
Shuma - are you sure that the oppresometer stuff is correct - i.e., have you tested it in game? If so, explain to me why trilarians have 7 as an average and are higher than Ithkul. Or why Humanoids are so low, even without a representative government.

I need to test it to make sure, but I suspect that those values are not actually valid anymore - it's data that is not in use one way or another.

Shuma
03-05-2003, 12:47 AM
Sigh. I was just going to double check this info and now I can't get the game to run anymore. Every time I run it I get the DirectX surface bug.

grumblegrumble

AegonTheMAd
03-05-2003, 02:08 AM
This should really go into the Encyclopedia!

kalbear
03-05-2003, 02:25 AM
Good gods, you're absolutely right. Utterly and completely.

I tested this by doing both human and trilarian custom races. Only government was heavily modded. According to lore weaver's guide the oppresometer should be something like 3 or 4 for humans and high for the trilarians.

There was no change in any of the government types. None at all. For the record, here's what they were:

Hive: 3-7
Uni: 2-6
monarchy: 3-7
despotism: 5-9
olig: 2-6
con. mon: 2-6
parliament: 1-5
corporate: 2-6
republic: 1-5
democracy: 0-4

No wonder the humans get nailed so bad. Representative is painfully bad for spying purposes. I wonder why Lore Weaver said what he did in his strat guide about the trilariians.

There's another option, of course - that the screen itself is lying. But I'm shocked that this is true at all. Kinda a bummer, really, though it does make the collective governments that much better.

Shuma
03-05-2003, 03:59 AM
Yep, those are the numbers. Ithkul get +1 to all of those ranges, and their Forced Labor meter always ranges from 5 to 9.

I agree though. I hope there's some race bonus stuff going on behind the scenes, cause as is, some races are plainly better than others.

Breetai Tul
03-05-2003, 06:05 AM
Very helpful information! :) Thanks, and I hope you write the other ones, too.

Now, if somebody would already bother to write the essay about the details of development plans... <g>

richar44
03-05-2003, 06:29 AM
Wonderful information! Thank's a lot. Can't wait for the follow-up!

Chantage
03-05-2003, 07:35 AM
Shuma: to get rid of the DirectX surface bug, try to delete some save games. For some reason it crashes if you have lots of save games

elmo3
03-05-2003, 09:30 AM
Mods - Can we get a sticky on this one and Shuma's upcoming guides please?

elmo3
03-05-2003, 01:08 PM
Bump. Any mods still here to sticky this?

elmo3
03-05-2003, 01:46 PM
Shuma

You didn't list the Gov or Military DEA Unrest modifiers for Oligarchy or C. Monarchy. Are they the same as the others? Thanks.

elmo3

Dorgal7
03-05-2003, 01:58 PM
Oligarchy and C. Monarchy both have a 100% Unrest modifier for Government and Military.

I assume Shuma didn't list them as 100% would mean nothing is modified.

@Shuma: Great job! I had manage to take a look at the numbers, even wrote them down, but you put some meaning behind those numbers that that lets me make a decision!

PirateRob
03-05-2003, 03:46 PM
Doesnt your Citizenship rating effect the oppressometer as well? Im not too clear on that.

On another note, I have been using a modified human race where I picked Absolutism for governemnt and Duty for citizenship. Had to lower my economic rating one level also. I have been using Despotism as my government and it works fine. besides, it makes for a nice "Empire" type race... Now if I could just get Darth Vader in as a leader :)

Rob

kalbear
03-05-2003, 03:53 PM
So, what's interesting is that cunning appears to modify oppression values, though it clearly doesn't do so in the empire screen. I need to investigate further, but that's what it appears.

Alexfrog
03-05-2003, 04:02 PM
To remove the DirectX bug that happens when you load game, you must delete some saved games...

IMO despotism is the best gov for the early game, as it gives a bonus to Industry (good for expansion) and Military, which helps make more COLONY SHIPS since they count as military.

Oligarchy is probably best later on to avoid the food minus, and to get the research bonus. (i.e. switch to it once you dont need the industry/military boost)

Also: I think oppressometer is effected by race type.

Also: I eagerly await the installments for the other 2 gov types ;) Good threads!

kalbear
03-05-2003, 04:11 PM
The oppresometer is not affected by race type, Alex. We verified this in this very thread. I thought the same as well, thanks to LW's guides, but those are either wrong or are based on information hard-coded in the game elsewhere that is not racial modifiers.

Trilarians have no better oppresion than humans for any given racial type. Only one that does is Ithkul.

Patton1942
03-05-2003, 04:20 PM
The Mods are generally in the Chaos that has become the General Discussion Forum/Folder... Its nuts in there, stay away if possible.

Anyway, If you ever think something is sticky-worthy, just PM a mod and they'll see what they can do. Sencho and Xentax are really good about at least getting back to people if they don't sticky something. :D

<EDIT: @Alexfrog: Quick question about the DirectX Surface thing. It just happened to me last night. It was not when trying to load tho. I tried to Alt-Tab out of the game, but it didn't work (I just got Alt+Tab'ed right back in, I'm using Win2K: NT) so i used that funny windows button on my keyboad. the one that shoots you to windows and pops up the start menu.
Anyway, when I tried to get back into MoO3, I got the error. Any ideas?

Alexfrog
03-05-2003, 04:23 PM
Originally posted by kalbear
The oppresometer is not affected by race type, Alex. We verified this in this very thread.

hmmmm.....the readme gives an oppressometer tolerance for each race. Are you saying that thats just BS?

Alexfrog
03-05-2003, 04:25 PM
Originally posted by Patton1942

<EDIT: @Alexfrog: Quick question about the DirectX Surface thing. It just happened to me last night. It was not when trying to load tho. I tried to Alt-Tab out of the game, but it didn't work (I just got Alt+Tab'ed right back in, I'm using Win2K: NT) so i used that funny windows button on my keyboad. the one that shoots you to windows and pops up the start menu.
Anyway, when I tried to get back into MoO3, I got the error. Any ideas?

Yeah that happens if you Alt-Tab. SOmetimes you can get back in by going to task manager and doing "switch to". If that doesnt work you must restart and load autosave.

Moral of the story: dont Alt-Tab in moo3

kalbear
03-05-2003, 04:26 PM
Either it's BS, or it's not indicated by the oppresometer scale used in the game.

So either the readme is lying, or the oppresometer is lying. Take your pick. Regardless, all races have the same values for 'em.

I suppose there's a third option - that races have an oppresometer scale that is indepentent from the government one. I.e., they like ones or don't like them and the government type doesn't matter. It only matters for the cost of the oppression.

If so, that's both highly confusing and deeply stupid.

Patton1942
03-05-2003, 04:27 PM
Hey thanks, I was assuming it was this. I believe someone, once said that Alt+Tab wasn't supported. I figured I'd try anyway.
*shrug*

Back on topic, wasn't the readme done in early Jan? Could things have changed maybe and they didn't redo the readme?

Slordak
03-07-2003, 11:32 AM
Re: The DirectX Surface Unavailable issue.

If you ever get the "DirectX Surface Unavailable" screen when you return to the game via ALT-TAB, all is not lost. You do not necessarily have to kill the game and restart. If, when you see this screen, you press CTRL-ALT-ESC, you can actually cause the game to get its DirectX surface back, essentially fixing the error correction and the game can resume.

(Note that this is only applicable to cases where the DirectX error has been caused by using ALT-TAB in the first place, not for some of the other DirectX issues people are having).

Patton1942
03-07-2003, 01:15 PM
Originally posted by Slordak
Re: The DirectX Surface Unavailable issue.

If you ever get the "DirectX Surface Unavailable" screen when you return to the game via ALT-TAB, all is not lost. You do not necessarily have to kill the game and restart. If, when you see this screen, you press CTRL-ALT-ESC, you can actually cause the game to get its DirectX surface back, essentially fixing the error correction and the game can resume.

(Note that this is only applicable to cases where the DirectX error has been caused by using ALT-TAB in the first place, not for some of the other DirectX issues people are having).

Hey, thanks! I was trying to collect some screenies for a friend and foolishly Alt-Tab'ed out to paste 'em...

@Kalbear: Maybe if we ask nice a Dev will pop through and shead some light onto this issue :D

RobNelson
03-07-2003, 01:48 PM
I've noticed the directx surface unavailable only after PC-cillin decides to pop up a window when I'm playing. :weird:
The odd thing is, Alt-Tab fixes it.

BluOystrCultist
03-07-2003, 03:30 PM
Great thread, Shuma, glad to see it stickied. This helped me understand things much better, I'm eagerly looking forward to your next installment, hopefully on the Representative forms. I also hope the devs are looking at this, if the community can come up with all these great doc. fixes, there should be no reason we can't expect to see this level of info in the upcoming manual patch.

Thank you very much.

Patton1942
03-07-2003, 03:38 PM
<Edit: Tee he. Scratch that both of the other threads are already stickied.>

booklegger
03-07-2003, 03:41 PM
I noticed that the Readme says that races have mods, and that some of the Antaran X's give mods to the op meter, too. I suspect that the modify the value after you set it. For instance, if you have a +1 to the Op. meter Antaran X, and have your Op. Meter set at "7" the game acts as though it's set at "8".

Just my guess, of course.

kalbear
03-07-2003, 04:06 PM
Well, booklegger, that'd be great if true.

And you have NO IDEA if it were the case, because the game doesn't give you any feedback on it. None at all. That's weak. So I have no clue what the truth of the matter is. I do believe that some races like lower ones than others, and you can bump this value up based on techs and Xs, but what that value is and how to find it, and how it relates to government? not a friggin clue.

Archangel_Brian
03-08-2003, 06:42 PM
YOINK!!!


*Runs off*


This is what I post in threads where I am taking something to use in my Encyclopedia Mod, and it is to give a heads up to the thread's creator that I'm gonna be using their info. IT IS NOT SPAM.

Evangeline Blue
03-31-2003, 08:21 AM
Just a thought here...but, given that the oppressometer settings should really be a LOT different based on government type and racial preference (although, Humans should be fairly adaptable in terms of this), is it possible that the oppressometer doesn't work right due to something that was a key feature that was gutted prior to the release of the game?

It seems to me that the programmers sort of voluntarily shot about half the decent things about the game. Guess they are living and working in a Stalinist type of absoulutism. God, it would suck to be a member of the CO-de race! :D

Thanks Shuma for making this info available.

DavidByron
04-30-2003, 10:34 PM
Initial article should be edited to add:

Const. Monarchy allows 5% higher taxes for the same unrest factor. Monarchy allows 2% higher taxes.

Per "Total Tax Percent" in the table "GovtTaxPercents".

imsaeis-Freak
09-19-2003, 03:41 PM
Call me completely stupid, but i,m a new player of the game, and I didn't play MOO1 or 2 either so i dont even know what heavy foot of government is9i didn't find anything in the manual either)
Is this number supposed to be high or low?
If anybody would help me with this i would be very grateful.
Also I would like to know if some races have born enemies, and if that is why i can't seem to be able to get in an alliance with those races.

gamesneal
09-22-2003, 04:06 AM
Low Hfog is good. Hfog X base production equals cost. If Hfog is 2.0 than things cost double. Yes, there are natural enemies. You can check from the diplomacy screen by clicking on the aliens and whether your people like them and vice versa can be found. Check diplomacy threads.

Longspur
11-13-2003, 12:03 PM
Now if we just had the other two government guides. Sigh. -- Longspur

Unknown Lurker
11-13-2003, 05:13 PM
Originally posted by Longspur
Now if we just had the other two government guides. Sigh. -- Longspur

I could have sworn they were in the Encyclopedia Mod...
Aren't they?

Longspur
02-18-2004, 05:45 AM
All three of these guides are now in the thread, "Shuma's Government Guides Revised," but touch anyway.

Archonon
08-29-2004, 06:11 PM
touch

Tarhalindur
12-06-2005, 10:07 PM
Touch to prevent deletion.