Footsteps in a Twisted Desert: A ballad of Tarmon Gai'don

[Aneirin]

Footsteps in a twisted desert
Voices in the clinging gloom
Armies march to face the coming
Of the Darkness and their doom

In their midst a man is riding
Man of granite? Harder still
Shaped to grimly face the grinding
Of the Wheel that weaves his will

Rand al’Thor, the reborn Dragon
Prince of Morning, Lord of Light
Leads his forces into battle,
Into Shadow, into Night

In the distance, torches burning
Numberless, a fiery lake
Reddish yellow flames conspiring
Mockery of dawn to make

Voices raised, a savage howling
Sounding ‘midst the garish flame
Pow’r of Shayol Ghul approaching
Bearing forth the Dark Ones name

As they come the Dragon watches
Eyes surveying all around
Armies on the field deploying
This the chosen battleground

Aiel Spears and Seanchan Armour
White cloaked Children, Dragonsworn
Men from every land and nation
Come to face the Shadowspawn

Wolf and Eagle banners flying,
Shen an Calher’s flag unfurled
Over all, a Dragon riding
Symbol of a changing world

Multitude of Trollocs nearing
Myrddraal in their thousands ride
Sulphur smell of Darkhounds pacing
Draghkar on the vapours glide

Wielders of the Power stirring,
Substance drawing from the void
Power shaped by thought responding
Weave and counter-weave employed

Arrows pierce the air in thousands
Trollocs charging shake the ground
Man and beast embraced by chaos
Fury’s visage, rage’s sound

At the clash of armies meeting
In the rear appears a Gate
One is seen to leave the battle:
Dragon leaves his friends to fate

Unafraid of duty’s burden
To the Pit of Doom alone
Come to face the Dark One’s power
Come to for the past atone

Three young mothers safe from battle
Feel the shift in Dragon’s mind
Know that he is not returning
Know they will be left behind

Entering the Dark One’s presence
Penetrating Shai’tan’s lair
Warding off the probing tendrils
Of the Presence dwelling there

Lightning raining down in torrents
Rolling rings of earth and fire
Any ground where shield has fallen
Swift becomes a funeral pyre

Now the Dark One shows his power
Greater than the Dragon, he
Voice inside of skull resounding
COME, MY ANCIENT ENEMY

Wolf directs his packs in hunting
Gambler plays his games of chance
Generals on a hilltop watching
Jak among the shadows dance

Masterful, the sire of falsehood
Wraps his mind in dolorous chains
Fate of world and Wheel are nothing
Yet, one thing untouched remains

Overwhelmed by press of Trollocs
Here retreating, there they hold
Still, they teach the beasts to fear them
As was done in days of old

Not for any unborn stranger
Shai’tan’s will he dares defy
Duty turned to bitter ashes
For his love he dares to die

Aviendha joins the battle
Queen Elayne stirs Lion’s pride
Min with daggers both defending;
Desperate hope to turn the tide

Power pulsing, slowly building
From afar he starts to feel
Now the Dragon plays his gambit:
Now he breaks the final seal

Far away from battle’s tumult
Asha’man, Aes Sedai weave
Saidin, Saidar, mixed and mingled
Shai’tan from the world to cleave

Reaching out to guide the weaving
Hurling pow’r into the Bore
Sees it swept aside in triumph
By the Dark One, caged no more

Though for every soldier fallen
Seems a score of Trollocs lie
Still, they strive to win no longer,
Just to kill, until they die

Being of chaotic malice
Entity of utter pow’r
Loosing all against the Dragon
Would his very soul devour

Seanchan armour beaten, broken
Cloaks of white are dyed in blood
Aiel dance, but footsteps falter
Spears are washed away in flood

Shai’tan’s weight bears down upon him
Pain to all his being grind
Witlessly the Dragon fleeing
Through the caverns of his mind

Mirroring the bleeding desert
Colour stains the morning skies
Final Hunt for Wolf is over
Gambler rolls the Dark Ones eyes

Shai’tan tearing through the layers,
Tattered remnants soaked in pain
Through it all Lews Therin rages
Only madness keeps him sane

Aiel courage, final flaring
Lioness’ final roar
Daggers broken, wills defeated
Three young hearts in pain no more

Utter grief of broken bondings
This he grasps, a slender cord
Seeing for a moment clearly
Bares his mind, and Sheathes the Sword

Rand al’Thor the Dark One seizes
From the flesh his spirit rives
All his pow'r to this exerted
Yet, a Dragon still survives

Saidin fills Lews Therin wholly
Wielded as a sword, to slice
Through the pow'r exposed, extended;
Shai’tan’s fury pays its price

At the shock of pain, recoiling
Still by Dragon’s strength assailed
Even as his might he gathers
Knows he yet again has failed

Though the Dragon’s pow'r retreating
Still, too much was Shai’tan slowed
While that distant pow'r, directed
In to heal his prison, flowed

Of Lews Therin, wreathed in power,
Naught remains but fire and will
Even while the fire consumes him
No relent, he struggles still

Blood from under skin is squeezing
Red on black it paints the scene
Red, the faintest touch of dawning
Where the darkness long has been

Final play, the Shadow’s essence
Reaching out to Saidin’s source
Yet the interwoven powers
Dam the sickly river’s course

Now the cage complete, unbroken
Sealing in the Dark One there
Dragon hears a final echo,
Shai’tan’s cry of rage, despair

Solid light bears down upon him
Such as closed another Age
“Ilyena” whispered softly
No more grieving, no more rage

In its wake a mountain forming,
Tombstone for the Dragon’s grave
Monument to this the one who
Broke himself the world to save

Thus the Final Battle over
Still, the world not done with war
Times of turmoil yet approaching
Threatening the world once more

Heroes of the nations, fallen
Flower of an Age is gone
Who remains to shape the future?
Still the Pattern weaveth on.

[Nae'Blis Sedai]

:up: :up: Amazing!:up: :up:

[AshaGal Min]

wow...

*wipes eyes*

[Aginor the Creator]

Swallows a lump

That was...incredible.
:eek: :eek:

So sad...:(

[Yayner]

Excellent.

[TheFirstDragon]

::bruises his hands from clapping so hard::

BRAVO!! BRAVO!! ENCORE ENCORE!!

[masterofblades]

that was tight

[Draghkar Noir]

That was outstanding.
I hope RJ's version of the last battle lives up to that!

[Zaiyac Drayon]

Originally posted by Draghkar Noir
That was outstanding.
I hope RJ's version of the last battle lives up to that!

My thoughts exactly at the end; I almost can't see RJ besting that...

[Croi Makin]

I thoroughly enjoyed reading this.

[Aan`allein]

Impressive. :up:

[HeartoftheDark]

*whistles, stamps his feet, and hollers*

Bravo!!:up: :up:

Now, that's AWESOME!

Very well crafted, Aneirin.

[Noal Charin]

That was amazing, especially liked your idea on how they defeat the Dark One.

[Dreamwalker]

Like, wow. That was very very very cool :up: Kudos to Aneirin!

I do believe we have quiet a bard here, folks.

[Ouroborus]

Aneirin, you are a gifted poet and storyteller! Thank you for sharing that with us.

Frankly, now, is there any reason for us to read the rest of the books?

... well, maybe, but only to see if Moiraine comes back, and if there's any more hints about the identity of Asmodean's killer... lol...

[Aneirin]

Wow, such responses! Thank you all very much :).

I'll make the point that I don't really think this is anything like how RJ plans to end it. For one thing, there are several bits of prophecy I simply ignored. For another, he couldn't really get away with it. I can because they're not my characters, so there's no finality to what I write. Though the scenario is one that I wanted to present, a story that I thought worth telling, if RJ were to end the books in such a manner my voice would most assuredly be among those howling in protest :).


Frankly, now, is there any reason for us to read the rest of the books?

... well, maybe, but only to see if Moiraine comes back, and if there's any more hints about the identity of Asmodean's killer... lol...
She will, and it was Graendal. ;)
Now you can go and read Steven Erikson's Malazan books instead ;).

[Aginor the Creator]

You know, that ballad oddly seems to fit perfectly when sung to the tune of "Joyful, Joyful"

;) :D

Though that seems kinda upbeat for that particular ballad.

[Dreamwalker]

LOL. It appears you are right, Agi. On both counts...


DW, who sang it very softly so that the visitors couldn't hear

[Nae'Blis Sedai]

i love the way you used direct prophecies in the verse... it really made it seem less of a fan-fic-ballad and more of the real thing... :up:

But.... I could see RJ finishing the books with a ballad Thom wrote... after he saw the Last Battle... or simply skipping over it and letting a Fourth-Age gleeman sing of what happened....

[Lebanese Dragon]

I must say that that poem actually insighted my interest... Very well done.. It was an exceptional poem....

:up:

[aejisomega]

rhyming 'unfurled' with 'world' ... cooool!

TOP NOTCH

[[2dp][Spike]]

Simply amazing

[Lebanese Dragon]

Originally posted by [2dp][Spike]
Simply amazing

Wow! You must be really impressed since you posted twice on how great Aneirin's ballad is...

I must commend you twice aswell aneirin for this is work ranked in a class of it own...

But.... I doubt it will be anthing like the ending, which Jordan has in store for us...

[[2dp][Spike]]

Originally posted by Lebanese Dragon
Wow! You must be really impressed since you posted twice on how great Aneirin's ballad is...

I must commend you twice aswell aneirin for this is work ranked in a class of it own...

But.... I doubt it will be anthing like the ending, which Jordan has in store for us...

what the hell are you talkign about....i am so lost i only posted once.....

[Lebanese Dragon]

Ha ha ha... Now you posted twice... This is what happened... I was briefly skimming the replies, to this thread, and was noting avatars, and i seem to have gotten your mixed up with... erm... (when you click on post reply... I forgot that all of the avatars dissapear...) Anyway I seem to have gotten yours mixed up with someone elses. Take into consideration... I was just glancing at avatars, and i thought yours was displayed twice; however, now that i look back on the avatars shown, i see they weren't both yours... So, I'm sorry,. but it would have been nice to applaud Aneirin twice, since he deserves such an enthusiastic response, from us, for such an inspirational ballad.

And sorry again, for the confusion I caused, for it seems i myself was unknowlingly confused.

Edit: Ah! It was HoTD's Avatar, which i so readily believed was yours... Edit:

[Zaiyac Drayon]

Originally posted by aejisomega
rhyming 'unfurled' with 'world' ... cooool!



Just like Pinky and the Brain...

[gruselag]

In the words of everyone else:

Wow, that was amazing.

[[2dp][Spike]]

it is alright but now i ill make my third post and say once again i am reading it and still awe struck by it....read it with some really dark classical music in the back round it makes it 394874957324987 times better

[Ultima_Legend]

Awsome work there, mate.:up:

[Weylin]

First I'd like to say that yes I'm digging up an old thread here, but I was just so impressed that I simply HAD to reply.

Not only will I agree with all the above posts, but I'd also like to add that you've reminded me of some of the epic poetry Tolkien wrote, and the rements we have of the ancient Bards of Prydan, Gwyenedd, Britian, Wales, Scotland, and Ireland. The Druids of the Celts too. You most througherly have my respect and admiration. Not to mention that you have very much impressed me.

You are a true Bard, Aneirin, and it is an honor to have read your poetry.

Fare you well in all your endevors
Weylin.

[Nae'Blis Sedai]

Were you going to set it to music?

Or send it to RJ?

[Aneirin]

Apologies for the bump, but I want to save this from the next round of thread deletions.

While I'm here though, since I notice there's a few more replies, I'd like to thank you all again :).

Spike, if you read this again, what sort of 'dark classical' do you listen to? Sounds like something I'd enjoy.

Weylin, I thank you, but you flatter me. Although I myself used the title in jest for a time, it goes without saying that any comparison to the 'true bards' could only be to my detriment, and of little honour to them. I'm just happy you enjoyed the poem :).

Nae'Blis Sedai, no and no :). I haven't any ability with music, so the thought never occurred to me. Nor did sending it to RJ - even if I knew how to get it to him, I wouldn't assume that it's something he'd wish to read. From what I recall, he's not terribly fond of people using his characters in fan fiction anyway, so it's probably for the best.

[Manetheren'Shar]

:eek: :eek: :eek: :up:

I'm simply stunned, that was so breathtakingly beautiful that I am lost for words! at one point it even gave me goosebumps (of course I was also listening to some music while reading so...)

But still, Aneirin you have a standing ovation on my account.. beautifully written!:up:


Truly amazing...:)

[Strng1dah]

Im glad this thread was brought back from the dead so I could read it. AWESOME

[Tinker]

......... I just don't know how to praise it enough.......:up:

To find things like this makes it worth going through all the crappy threads

[Heronblade]

Awesome, I also got goosebumps:eek::eek::eek::eek:
To find things like this makes it worth going through all the crappy threads
too true

[Heron]

WOW, this is an old post but the only thing that my fingers are typing is WOW, WOW, WOW, WOW, WOW, WOW, my fingers are
epileptic or something, spasming wows out. WOW!

[ajeric]

Simply fantastic... I could never create poetry like that. Astounding! Color me impressed!!!

[kkgabba]

:goosbumps on my back: WOW impressive, truly amazing.

[masterofblades]

yeah i know this has been brought back about a million times, but holy lord i just read it again andit is wonderful, and anierin i hope you don't mind but i am copying this to my computer just so that i will have it if i want to read it or something, should i just put "-Aneirin, Wheel of Time Book Forum" on it or do you want me to put your real name on it or what, or not copy it at all if that is your wish?

[BlackSilence]

Quite remarkable :)

Astounding work, I can honestly say I haven't read better or seen anything more accessible and so well constructed.

So :up: for that, you certainly have a Talent for this! :D

[Talor Karos]

Astounding! :up:

Incredible! :up:

Marverlous! :up:

That was good, man. You're very talented, dude! I could never make one like that. My poetic skills extend only to about a stanza or two (or three).

[Aneirin]

Heh, masterofblades, you can do whatever you like with it :). I appreciate your consideration in asking, but it doesn't really matter to me. The only thing that might possibly bother me is if someone were to deliberately take credit for it themselves. Short of that though, anything's fine.


And again, many thanks to you all. :)

[TheFirstDragon]

Wow. I've read this around 10 times, and each time I still get chills. And just to reiterate, Bravo!

[Trayek]

I don't have the words for it...simply fantastic!

[Darian Maliken]

*just now read the ballad* Wow....

just...I cna't find words to describe this.

You say you don't mind people using it so long as propper credit is given(or at least not claimed to be their own work)? If I could think of a rythm to go with I'd have the perfict person who could sing this in bardic style.

[Stu Al'Thor]

I have to dissagree with most people. It's not Awesome or incredible or any other word thats been used so far.
The greatness of this ballad goes so far that words can no longer express how great it truly is.
BRAVO.
*Claps, Cheers, Throws roses at Aneirin, Cries, etc,etc,*
WHOA

[Aneirin]

Hey, haven't seen up here this for a while! Although I feel a little repetitive doing this, let me once again offer my thanks :).

Darian, yes, you're free to do as you like with it. As I said before, as long as no one were to pass it off as their own, I can't see any harm. After all, if I used Jordan's books to make a poem, how could I object to someone using the poem to make a song? ;) Not that the analogy quite holds, but you get the idea. Heh, I imagine it would be rather flattering actually. Not to take a passing thought for something as good as done, but if you (or anyone) ever should fancy attempting it, and manage to pull it off (I do have some doubts as to how well parts of it would work, spoken), I'd love to hear the result.

[Sanctume_at_wor]

/oggle and /goosed

That's great as Two Rivers Tabbac!

Very nicely done.

Where are the dead heroes coming to answer the horn for the last battle? :)

[Aneirin]

You know, I didn't even think of that. If I had though, I probably would have concluded it would be too hard to include them. I could have given them at most a verse, which couldn't really do justice. Any way of killing them off so briefly would have seemed too cheap... and then there's the fact that I don't really know how they *can* be defeated. They were a bit of a deus ex machina in TGH, with the Seanchan not being able even to harm them. So, uh... let's just forget the Heroes... or pretend that Mat did ;).

[Darian Maliken]

Or that the Shadow has posession of the horn and has only to kill our favorite gambling pimp of Randland to designate a hornblower favorable to their cause.

[BlacKnight127]

Wow

That is amazing!:) :)

[Sanctume_at_wor]

Or the White Tower got nuked like in Shadar Logoth and the horn disappeared with it, along with Egwene.

And Bela needs her own verse!

Bela! Bela! Bela! Bela!

Bela says, "gg." (scene shows Bela and the DO playing Foxes and Snakes, the pieces are the characters in Randland.) Outcast playing in the background.

[Darian Maliken]

Ok, just out of curiosity how come just about everyone here(and lots other places) think Bela is the Creator incarnate/avitarized?

though it would be fun to see that match, and yes with Outkast playing in the background...even though I normally frown on rap I have a slight weakness for their music.

[Aneirin]

Originally posted by Sanctume_at_wor
And Bela needs her own verse!

Bela! Bela! Bela! Bela!

Bela says, "gg." (scene shows Bela and the DO playing Foxes and Snakes, the pieces are the characters in Randland.) Outcast playing in the background.
Ah, but if Bela had been involved, it would probably have been much shorter. It might, in fact, have been something more like this:

Hoof prints in a twisted desert
Light that doth dispel the gloom
Bela trots to face the coming
Of the Dark, to bring its doom

Multitude of Trollocs standing
Myrddraal too, and Hounds of course
All arrayed to face an army
Made of but a single Horse

Trollocs shift their feet, uneasy
Myrddraal know their first of fear
Darkhounds whine and tails start drooping
As She canters slowly near

Knowing there will be no quarter
Seeing there is no retreat
Forward they surge in desperation
To this mighty mare defeat

At her kick, a legion crumples
At her bite, a host is felled
Then a tail whip, scourging thousands
Equine fury here beheld

Hear Her valiant neigh of vict’ry
As her foes are overthrown
See her now arrayed in triumph
Standing on the field, alone

Pausing but for several hours
To enjoy a well earned graze
Now she turns upon the Dark One
All the power of her gaze

Reaching out towards his prison
Finds it is already sealed!
Shai’tan has himself remade it
Hoping it her wrath to shield

Of that flimsy cage disdainful
At her neigh it flies apart
Shai’tan feels her Hoof of Smiting
Then She doth his doom impart

NO MORE YOUR ILL-GOTTEN POWERS
NO MORE MEG’LOMANIC PLANS
BE AGAIN WHAT ONCE YOU WERE -
A LESSER ENEMY OF MAN’S

Shai’tan slinks through broken rubble
Pounces on a passing rat
Forced to face the world one more as
Nothing but a tabby cat


:)

[Darian Maliken]

I reiterate my last question.

Originally posted by Darian Maliken
Ok, just out of curiosity how come just about everyone here(and lots other places) think Bela is the Creator incarnate/avitarized?

[masterofblades]

Search for a really old thread about the almight comma, that might explain it, as much as it can be explained anyway. There is a newer thread on it which I believe has a link to the old one. But I only read it till my head started to hurt, then I had to quit.

[Nae'Blis Sedai]

I won't be back long but...

check the WoTBF FAQ. Its in my sig and on the main page of the Forum. Small link though.

How long did it take you to write that? (that being both your original and the Bela version). I must say I am impressed as always with your work. (Although that last stanza of the Bela version is a little... sketchy...:p)

What about the Almighty Comma?

Also, if Mat dies during the battle, do the Heroes retreat into the Horn? (that would be one method of inclusion yet without confusion). Although I like your original as it is...:up:

[Aneirin]

Hmm, I can't really remember now how long the original took. I know there would have been at least a month, and possibly several, between my writing down the verse that first started the idea (the last verse of the poem, as it happens), and completing it all. But it was mostly written in fits and starts - I might spend hours on it one day, and then nothing for a week. Sometimes I might just write down single lines that came to me and that I thought would work well, and then later have to spend the time trying to fit them together into verses, and fit the verses together into a story. The ones that I think of as the best verses were usually the easiest. It was the more mediocre 'filler' ones that could seem to take forever. And in all, it did take quite a lot of time.

The Bela one... an hour maybe? Less than ninety minutes, anyway. And it was fun :). I didnt' really have any idea where I was going with it, so I didn't have to worry about fitting things together to get there. I let it be guided by the rhyme to a greater extent than I'd normally like to, which makes things easier. And as for the last verse, well, cats are evil ;).

[Heron]

Brought back from the dead

[Zaiyac Drayon]

Even more amazing the 50th time over :)

This time I swear I was shaking from the second verse until the end. Brilliant, brilliant work.

[TheFirstDragon]

::shivers:: I get the chills every time I read that. Bravo sir, bravo.

[420Sedai]

superb, simply superb. I am a little late to jump on this wagon but I loved it.

[awheelgirl]

wow, is it that good?! congratulations! great job! okay i haven't read it yet. i skipped to the comments to see how it went. as your work may rival rj's, i am going to reserve a special honor for it. i am not going to read it until the series is complete (we should be up to 3,000,000,000,000+/- on the waiting thread). at such time i will read your ballad, it will be interesting to compare the two separate endings. i hope you do not mind if i do so.

[Tinker]

Must say it's even greater then I remember.
When I at first didn't find it I became terrified it was lost for ever...

[The Adversary]

I like the prose.... Nice execution, metre and rhyme...

It's just that the Last Battle will not be fought with the One Power!
The Dragon is not the Dragon because he can channel, he can channel becuase he is the Dragon. If his destined enemies could not channel, likely he would not be able to either. It is not necessary to his task, as it is not he who will remake the Dark One's prison...it is his sacrifice which compels the Creator to remake it. Or if you prefer, the DO's prison is remade with the soul of the Dragon, freely given.
Battles there will be, but not like the one described.
Not the Last Battle.

As a gleeman or bard, this ballad would stand well as a romanticized version of actual events; one that is fictionalized and glorified for the benefit of the listener and in praise of the participants....however in the bardic tradition one should also include the lineage of those named, and subsequently name as many people as possible who were there, and their lineages as well.
Boring, but necessary to establish bona fides.
It is like Rueters fact-checking a story.
Think Homer and the Illiad...everybody had a name and a skill and an aspect and parents with associations of their own.

Aphylodonis thrust his spear cruelly into his enemy, that haughty crown prince and master of horses, with the gods smiling upon his manly brow, his body as well-formed as was his father, Acherontus, of whom the lions of ceradon are well advised to fear.

I guess the idea was, who really cares who gets killed in a battle, if they have no back story? It is kind of odd, since in any of our modern stories, there are always main characters, recurring characters, and cannon fodder; nameless faces that die in order to move the storyline along and make the action seem believable. Yet in the Homeric tradition, everyone is a main character at the time of their death... in the end, everyone has a story, only sometimes it is simply untold.

I like the scene where the Moshaine Shaido die.This demonstrates this admirably. It was genius way to write that encounter.
For a few moments, their last moments, they are the main characters...as is everyone, in truth...the main character of their own lives.
Jordan gives the Moshaine dignity in their last minutes of life and lets you see them as people with their own lives and stories, hopes and loves; all to emphasize that they are not simply extensions of some evil person's evil will, but individuals in the own rights. It makes their death a tragedy, instead of a minor encounter whose outcome the reader might otherwise applaud. They were not evil people, but people caught by duty, honor, and fate into following a path that lead to their own ends. A waste.

What I would like to see more of is the foot-soldier's view. The guy who knows that he not central to the conflict, not crucial, but nevertheless has a part to play in keeping the elemental characters alive and perhaps victorious.
How many times do we ever see that? Where the little characters acknowledge that they are bit players, but nevertheless have reasons for doing what they do, and reasons to risk their lives? How often does it ring true? How many times do we see them asking themselves how the hell they ended up on this path, walking into a battle that they had no intention of fighting? A conflict that was not in their life-plans. Their only immediate goal to live through it and get back to their own storyline rather than being a minor actor in someone else's?

[The Car'a'carn]

Interesting thoughts here, and I must concur. Clearly all hope of defeating the Dark One will be riding on the Creator. The descent into chaos, the increasing entropy of the system, these are problems that require an outside intervention - only the Creator would have the necessary puissance and perspective to be able to return the world to a stable state.

It's understandable for the Dragon to assume that he holds the reins of fate, but as readers we have to question the manner in which many of us have let ourselves become saddled with the same assumption, and how tightly it really holds. I know that many people have a rather blinkered view of the Dragon and his significance, but it behooves us all to consider with due equinimity the possibility of misdirection by Jordan. Some may say this would cheapen the sacrifice of Rand, and Lews Therin before him, but hey, it's no small thing to be the one who ultimately spurs the Creator into taking action. Indeed, this must be the Dark One's greatest - nay, only true nightmare. And frankly, with all the other prophecies and such Rand has to fulfill he is going to be pretty knackered by that point anyway!

While I suppose for some a few doubts might still nag, unless Jordan says anything to the contrary - and it really would have to come straight from the horses mouth, so to speak - I think we have to assume that the main point of this tale, the bit that really matters, is that to win he has to accept humanity's inherent limitations. That nothing done by mere bipedal hominids is more than chaff in the face of the greater powers.

I do wonder just how Jordan'll do it though, what with revealing the Creator an' all that. Will the Creator be a Person, or just a Force? Or something else? At one time I thought, would be funny if the Creator turned out to be a character we'd already seen, who’d reveal that they’d been guiding Rand all along. But would be lame an' that, eh?



As to the rest of the poem, I too was disappointed by the lack of genealogies. Not only is it a fine poetic tradition, it is a prophetic one was well. What would Matthew be without the classic opening:Abraham was the father of Isaac, Isaac the father of Jacob, and Jacob the father of Judah and his brothers ... Asa was the father of Jehoshaphat, Jehoshaphat the father of Joram, and Joram the father of Uzziah ... Eliud was the father of Eleazor, Eleazor the father of Matthan, and Matthan the father of Jacob. Jacob was the father of Joseph the husband of Mary, by whom Jesus was born, who is called the Messiah.I left out a lot of the good bits, but you see what I mean. How can a character come across as convincingly messianic without even a halfway decent genealogy? Jordan has devoted almost as many pages to giving us the family history of Rand, as he has to the ubiquitously lacy fashions of Randland (something also glaringly absent), so there's really no excuse for not including it in a poem involving him.


Frankly, it’s little wonder this Aneirin person hasn’t shown his face around here in a while. I’d be ashamed too, if I were him :bored:.

[The Adversary]

Jordan has told us of this, certainly....but we must consider Jordan's story as in situ and as reality. But any poetic retelling must be seen, not as a derivative of the original story, but as a stand-alone saga. As such it must encompass all the details in itself. What if this were the only version you had ever heard? What would you know about the protaganist?

[The Car'a'carn]

Oh yes, don't get me wrong. While my last post may have been arguing the same thing from a different direction, I comprehend the full import of what you are saying here. I know if I'd come here and read this poem without knowing anything about this 'wheel of time' thing, except perhaps to figure it as a rather obtuse way of saying clock, the lack of information as to the protagonist's ancestry would have been very off putting. Not only that, but as a fan I find the very notion of allowing this to happen, that any person's image of his work might so be tarnished, a grave insult to the craftsmanship of Jordan.

It's all well and good (if still stylistically lacking) for those of us who know that Modrellein begat Tigraine, and Tigraine begat Rand upon the slopes of mighty Dragonmount, but as you rightly point out that's being rather narrow-minded. What about the other people? We're just one part of the larger Atari community here, a fact I think many of us overlook too often. To take what might seem an extreme case, but one that in reality I'm sure is happening all the time, what about the members of the DBZ forums that might come wandering through here? I think all of us could put our hands up to say that at one time or another we haven't properly considered the DBZ audience when posting. There's really no excuse though. So on behalf of the wider community I would like to take this opportunity to say 'Sorry' to those of you (you know who you are) who may have suffered as the result of the thoughtlessness displayed in this and other threads.

Saying sorry isn't really enough though. There's a problem here, and I think we need to fix it. While there's nothing we can do about the poem as it stands, I propose we create a new thread wherein we post an appropriately revised version. Then at least the uninitiated will be able to see a more coherent, a 'truer' version, rather than stumbling all unknowing onto this one.

I'm sure no one would take it awry if I said I found a number of the original verses rather lacking, even apart from their absence of proper history and lore. The second verse for instance is particularly weak. Now, while I wouldn't claim to be any more poetically inclined than the author of the original, I think the following replacement for the second verse at least gives a stronger sense of the rich history that lies behind some the characters:

In their midst a man is riding
Son of Tigs and Janduin
Tigs the get of saucy Modrell
Of the proud Maneater line

Sure, it could maybe use a little more work still, but it gives an idea of where we could go with this. I'm sure with your Homeric experience you could do an even better job of turning this into something truly worthy of Jordan's magnum opus.

[Aan`allein]

I think all of us could put our hands up to say that at one time or another we haven't properly considered the DBZ audience when posting.I for one can not help but to feel the need to vigorously show my support here by putting up my hand. *proceeds to do so*

Btw, C'a'C - both email addresses of yours which I had are bouncing, and you're not accepting private messages either... :/

[Relayquin]

Aren't you being a tad overly dramatic, C'a'C? Suffering? This is a book series we're talking about, isn't it? And one that hasn't exactly set the world ablaze either. Are you afraid that upon reading Aneirin's obviously amateuristic (in the best sense of the word) efforts, our DBZ brethren will become emotionally scarred, or be put off from ever picking up a WoT book - and thus suffer having to go through life without having that life enriched by Jordan's works (which is dubious to say the least) - or, horror of horrors, take the words of Aneirin as gospel? Could you qualify why exactly they and others are due an apology from us for our supposed thoughtlessness? Or maybe ask over a couple of the DBZ frequenters and ask them.

Oh, and I think you'd better start that new thread you write of to "fix the problem", and start cracking. Until then this remains the definitive Lay of the Last Battle and you no more than an overly pretentious critic. :)

[The Car'a'carn]

Aren't you being a tad overly dramatic, C'a'C?
Relayquin, Reqlayquin, not at all, I assure you! I am in fact being a tad underly dramatic, if anything.

Are you afraid that upon reading Aneirin's obviously amateur... efforts, our DBZ brethren will become emotionally scarred, or be put off from ever picking up a WoT book - and thus suffer having to go through life without having that life enriched by Jordan's works
Yes, this is precisely what I'm afraid of. Perhaps not quite that they'll be 'emotionally scarred', no, that would be taking it a little too far. But becoming intellectually scarred from reading this thread? Yes, I think that's a very real danger, and one that's too often been realized throughout the history of these forums. Pity them Relayquin, pity them.

Could you qualify why exactly they and others are due an apology from us for our supposed thoughtlessness? Or maybe ask over a couple of the DBZ frequenters and ask them.
Ah, well, I don't actually associate with those sorts you know, but I do feel keenly for their welfare, never doubt it! As for thoughtlessness, the opening 'poem' is of course a prime example, as Adversary so rightly pointed out. I mean, it mentions some desert without explaining the origin and history of the Blight. A 'reborn' Dragon, without explaining who the original Dragon was, or what 'Dragon' even means. Aiel, without listing the tribes, or properly explaining what makes tribes such as the True Bloods etc important. Then there's trollocs, dragkhar, saidin, saidar, the list goes on. How is any poor DBZ'er who pops his or her little head into our forums supposed to understand any of this? And there's threads doing just the same all over the forum.

Oh, and I think you'd better start that new thread you write of to "fix the problem", and start cracking. Until then this remains the definitive Lay of the Last Battle and you no more than an overly pretentious critic. :)
Pretentious? Pretentious? *Splutters* Look, just because I've read (several times) the classic "Understanding Poetry", by Dr. J. Evans Pritchard Ph.D, it doesn't mean I'm saying my opinion is necessarily right (though I'm sure you'd agree by now it clearly is).

As for the revised version I proposed, well, I had more of a collaborative vision for it. I've made a good start to it as you can see, but I was really hoping Adversary and any other concerned posters could lend their expertise to it as well.

Finally - and I'm not wanting to belabour the point here, or beat a dead horse - there's still the matter of the erroneous portrayal of a Last Battle involving the One Power instead of the Creator. While I don't know that my 'Creator as a character we've already seen' idea would really work, an equally plausible, and more fittingly greek-epic ending would involve say the sudden discovery of a Ter'angreal that in fact turns out to be some sort of physical extension of the Creator. Then the Creator (in the Ter'angreal) could untangle everything and set it all to rights. I think I could even speak for Aneirin in saying that this would make a much more interesting conclusion.



I for one can not help but to feel the need to vigorously show my support here by putting up my hand. *proceeds to do so*
Thankyou Aan, thankyou. I knew I could count on you to see our foally for what it is.

Btw, C'a'C - both email addresses of yours which I had are bouncing, and you're not accepting private messages either... :/
Oops, mustn't have re-enabled that after my lurk time. Thought I had, but maybe that was something else. Or maybe it was disabled by default when we switched software and I never turned it on in the first place? *Shrugs* Anyway, fixed now. Email, yeah, changed ISPs a while back, just using gmail for email now. cduff1. Really though, truly I was actually going to drop in at juima in a couple of days or so. I just finished Forty Signs of Rain the other day, and am currently well into Antarctica (just past the hovercraft adventure on the way to Shackleton). Made me realise it was high time for a visit, but was just going to finish the book first :).

[Relayquin]

Yes, this is precisely what I'm afraid of. Perhaps not quite that they'll be 'emotionally scarred', no, that would be taking it a little too far. But becoming intellectually scarred from reading this thread? Yes, I think that's a very real danger, and one that's too often been realized throughout the history of these forums. Pity them Relayquin, pity them.

Oh, I do. I pity them for never having experienced the brilliance of Jordan. I pity them for having to plough through eleven books of improbable women comparing different types of lace - which could very well leave one intelectually scarred - if they ever do decide to pick up the books. Other than that, I don't think they need our pity, certainly not for the ravings of a few oldtimers on a forum that's seen better days.


Ah, well, I don't actually associate with those sorts you know,
Ah, so you're not only pretentious, but you're also an elitist!

As for thoughtlessness, the opening 'poem' is of course a prime example, as Adversary so rightly pointed out. (...) How is any poor DBZ'er who pops his or her little head into our forums supposed to understand any of this? And there's threads doing just the same all over the forum.
I don't expect them to understand anything of it, at all. Maybe we should put up a sign saying "Visitor beware! Prior reading of books 1 - 11 is strongly advised. Studying summaries of the aforementioned will do the job as well, but this shows a distinct lack of respect for the literary value of the books themselves". But then, this is implied: we don't post spoiler warnings here.

Pretentious? Pretentious? *Splutters* Look, just because I've read (several times) the classic "Understanding Poetry", by Dr. J. Evans Pritchard Ph.D, it doesn't mean I'm saying my opinion is necessarily right (though I'm sure you'd agree by now it clearly is).

"Excrement. That's what I think of Mr. J. Evans Pritchard."

In any case, I have no informed opinion of the poem itself (I'm not a great fan of the form), so I'm sure you must be right. Rather, I'm challenging your methods of delivering critique, which in my opinion are a bit over the top.

As for the revised version I proposed, well, I had more of a collaborative vision for it. I've made a good start to it as you can see, but I was really hoping Adversary and any other concerned posters could lend their expertise to it as well.


Well, good luck with that!

[The Car'a'carn]

Oh, I do. I pity them for never having experienced the brilliance of Jordan.Well, personally I think 'brilliance' might be taking it a little far you know. I understand your enthusiasm (I was once like that myself) but we don't want to be entirely un-critical. Nor should we be turning the discussion of a very real crisis faced by this forum into a flagrant attempt at Jordan-propagandising. Shame on you Relayquin, shame.

Ah, so you're not only pretentious, but you're also an elitist!
Damn right I'm the 1337est! (translating for the DBZers)

Studying summaries of the aforementioned will do the job as well, but this shows a distinct lack of respect for the literary value of the books themselves
Now Relayquin, If you want to describe Jordan as brilliant that's one thing, but you're getting a little carried away here with the 'literary value' argument. It's not as if we're talking about one of the heavyweights like John Marco.

"Excrement. That's what I think of Mr. J. Evans Pritchard."
Ah, quoting from his cover blurb I see!

In any case, I have no informed opinion of the poem itself (I'm not a great fan of the form), so I'm sure you must be right.Well, it turns out you're more familiar with Mr Pritchard than I realised, so I wouldn't dismiss your opinion entirely. Your concluding that I was right goes to show that you in fact have an excellent grasp of the situation. You sir, have the makings of a fine scholar! If The Adversary doesn't object, I might even be able to offer you an invitation to join us in our aforementioned poetical endeavour.

Rather, I'm challenging your methods of delivering critique, which in my opinion are a bit over the top.
Not at all, I assure you! They are in fact a bit under the top, if anything.

[Relayquin]

Well, personally I think 'brilliance' might be taking it a little far you know. I understand your enthusiasm (I was once like that myself) but we don't want to be entirely un-critical. Nor should we be turning the discussion of a very real crisis faced by this forum into a flagrant attempt at Jordan-propagandising. Shame on you Relayquin, shame.

Heaven forbid we should be attempting Jordan-propagandising on this, the hallowed halls of Jordan fandom, the Wheel of Time Book Forum - which, interestingly, never gets mentioned in official communiques from the WoT camp; our existence is being ignored, that is, until we reveal ourselves and take over the world. With poetry of the epic variety. Bad or slightly less bad.

Now Relayquin, If you want to describe Jordan as brilliant that's one thing, but you're getting a little carried away here with the 'literary value' argument. It's not as if we're talking about one of the heavyweights like John Marco.
You're right! Again. Marco's First (capital intentional) still sits like a heavy weight on my stomach. It's literary value has sunk into my left big toe by now.

If The Adversary doesn't object, I might even be able to offer you an invitation to join us in our aforementioned poetical endeavour.
You do that! I'll file it with the invitation to my redheaded step-brother's wedding (she was hot, though), my third wife's divorce settlement papers (she wasn't, after all), and my subpoena for ignoring the previous.


Not at all, I assure you! They are in fact a bit under the top, if anything.
Under the belt, you mean!

[The Car'a'carn]

Heaven forbid we should be attempting Jordan-propagandising on this, the hallowed halls of Jordan fandom, the Wheel of Time Book Forum - which, interestingly, never gets mentioned in official communiques from the WoT camp; our existence is being ignored, that is, until we reveal ourselves and take over the world. With poetry of the epic variety. Bad or slightly less bad.
Only slightly less bad? No no, with Ad and I at the helm it would be very slightly less bad!

You're right! Again. Marco's First (capital intentional) still sits like a heavy weight on my stomach. It's literary value has sunk into my left big toe by now.
You might want to get that amputated.

Under the belt, you mean!
Well, that depends on the size of the man, does it not? What goes over one person's head may very well turn out to be below another's belt :).

You do that! I'll file it with the invitation to my redheaded step-brother's wedding (she was hot, though), my third wife's divorce settlement papers (she wasn't, after all), and my subpoena for ignoring the previous.
I....
Well...
Er....

*Contemplates*

Aw, bugger, I think you win the thread Relayquin - I'm afraid I just can't top that :).

[Senshario]

As always, I'm rather horrid at starting things, and especially posts, but here goes.
I must say the ballad was one of the most wonderful things that I've read in quite some time. I'm finding that I can't quite put into words just how good it was, so I'll just..try anyway.
It's like the moment of clarity, when in full darkness comes light.

After reading it, the replies and the Bella version (I must say it gave me a good laugh :)) I noticed that the person who bumped the thread, so that I could find it on this day, was actually someone who criticized it. My first thought was to make a post to object to this, as it's unjust for a few reasons. However, in spirit of those reasons, in spirit of author and ballad, I find it more important to thank you for bumping the thread so that it could enlighten me. So, thank you very much for bumping it, so that those who still dwell in here can enjoy (again) the wonderful read. :)

[Tinker]

After reading it, the replies and the Bella version (I must say it gave me a good laugh :)) I noticed that the person who bumped the thread, so that I could find it on this day, was actually someone who criticized it.

And here I thought I was clear in expressing my appreciation for this fine work of art. I'll try to be less foggy in my statements from now on...

:up:

I find it more important to thank you for bumping the thread so that it could enlighten me. So, thank you very much for bumping it, so that those who still dwell in here can enjoy (again) the wonderful read. :)

Of course I accept such gracious offered thanks!

:D

[Krerr]

I'll add myself as well, though very late O_O

Wow!

nice work :D

[Nemene Sedai]

Wow.
Absolutely amazing.Totally blew me away(both the bela one and the actual one)

[The Adversary]

Wow.
That was so good ,my right ******** now thinks it thinks it's a vagina.
And while my lefty is skeptical, it is nevetheless hopeful that this could be true.

[masterofblades]

Been away a long time, but this deserves a
*bump*

[Milkman]

Makes me want to put my story of the fall of Manetheran on the forum.

[Dato'vs]

Ill start with the bad points and then go onto the good...
The Reddish yellow flames conspiring
and Pow’r of Shayol Ghul approaching
were two lines that ruined the flow for me. They didnt add much substance and disfigured the stanzas they were in.

And i have to say, i didnt like:
Now the Dark One shows his power
Greater than the Dragon, he
Voice inside of skull resounding
COME, MY ANCIENT ENEMY

and

Reaching out to guide the weaving
Hurling pow’r into the Bore
Sees it swept aside in triumph
By the Dark One, caged no more

These two stanzas didnt seem to have much of a rythm. I personally didnt like them but they were needed so i wont say you shoud delete them, rather, adjust.
But onto the good notes (which by this time, half the readers are typing crazy to counter everything i said and say i'm heartless and have no idea what i am talking about), the alliteration, rhyme and rhythm are exceptional. There were stanzas that made me want to cry. seriously.
If i didnt know better, you are either a student of english, or a poet. I was awestruck and am still feeling the aftermath of that ballad. I hope you post another sometime soon. Thanks so much for posting this. I thoroughly enjoyed it.

ps. What made you want to write this?

[Milkman]

*shakes head* Pushed back to page 4...shame on you all!;)

BUMP!

[Krerr]

Why not go ahead and sticky it already?
This seems to be one of the best threads around.
With good discussions as well.

Also, The Gathering Storm ruined some of the poem:p

I hope I still remember how spoiler tags work, lets see
Lews Therin and Rand are seperate no more! Zomgzors

Anyhow, reread the poem today, while listening to Doomsday, the doctor who song of all things :p It was still as awesome.