Newbs: Ask gameplay questions, get answers [Archive] - Page 3

eastwind

07-14-2004, 03:53 AM

Thanks for previous answers! I'm still finding more things to ask about, though.

1. If I see an enemy planet, and the description says its 84% Evon or whatever, how do I tell what the other 16% is? Like to make sure its not Ithkul. I don't wanna get infected, I'm still expanding a good bit and have lots of partly-empty worlds. The Ithkul border this guy I'm going to swat next.

2. When I invade a system that has several enemy-owned planets the game doesn't appear to give me a choice about which one to attack first. It seems to do them in order. Is that just the way it works or have I missed a pulldown somewhere. This is with respect to the planet listed both in phase 2 and phase 3 of combat.

3. So I conquored this big fat enemy planet, complete with 20k peeps. I started to build a military DEA first thing, and there were already a couple government DEAs, but they went into full revolt before I could stop it. The reason was "Nommo", and its a 100% Nommo planet that I took. I went to planet->military->ground force creation and formed an army out of half the surviving troops, but I can't tell where that army went or whether its helping or not. There's one region in full revolt, with 2 industries built in it. Do I
knock down an industry and try to build a rec center there or what?
I also took my fleet away a little too soon and now there's piracy as well pissing them off. The place is all built up, and not really suitable for my other races, I don't want to waste the place. What to do?

4. The #1 most annoying thing about the GUI is when I'm creating a task force. I always always forget to get the pulldowns set right before I type the name in, and when I change the pulldowns it overwrites the name I typed with its generated one. Sometimes I do this twice in a row as I type the name, change the mission pulldown, retype the name, change the taskforce size pulldown, then retype the name for the last time. ARGH. I mainly just wanted to vent, but I also had some faint hope someone had a mod to nop this feature. I can't tell you how many times I've done this... Yes, I am half asleep when I play.

Lennier

07-14-2004, 10:40 AM

Originally posted by eastwind
Thanks for previous answers! I'm still finding more things to ask about, though.

1. If I see an enemy planet, and the description says its 84% Evon or whatever, how do I tell what the other 16% is? Like to make sure its not Ithkul. I don't wanna get infected, I'm still expanding a good bit and have lots of partly-empty worlds. The Ithkul border this guy I'm going to swat next.You can't. You have a couple of options:[list=1]
You could bomb it until it's 100% non-Ithkul or until it is glass it just to make sure you don't have any Ithkul in your empire.
You could conquer it and check the demographics box (or regions); if there are any Ithkul on the planet, set the planetary taxes to 45% (the max), wait for the planet to revolt (usually the next turn), and then glass it.
Learn to live with Ithkul in your empire. It's really not that bad (check out the last few of my AARs in my sig).
[/list=1]
2. When I invade a system that has several enemy-owned planets the game doesn't appear to give me a choice about which one to attack first. It seems to do them in order. Is that just the way it works or have I missed a pulldown somewhere. This is with respect to the planet listed both in phase 2 and phase 3 of combat.There is a tab at the bottom of the space combat schedulelar (says something like "view system.") It is grayed out unless you are assaulting a planet. If you choose to assault a planet, and you click on the tab, you will be able to select which planet you want to attack.

3. So I conquored this big fat enemy planet, complete with 20k peeps. I started to build a military DEA first thing, and there were already a couple government DEAs, but they went into full revolt before I could stop it. The reason was "Nommo", and its a 100% Nommo planet that I took. I went to planet->military->ground force creation and formed an army out of half the surviving troops, but I can't tell where that army went or whether its helping or not. There's one region in full revolt, with 2 industries built in it. Do I knock down an industry and try to build a rec center there or what? I also took my fleet away a little too soon and now there's piracy as well pissing them off. The place is all built up, and not really suitable for my other races, I don't want to waste the place. What to do?The "Nommo" reason for unrest is because of the "liberty" citizenship pick for Nommo; they're naturally unruly. Conquered planets naturally have a lot of unrest as the inhabitants get used to living in a new empire. To keep the unrest on a downward trend to "content," you want to make sure taxes aren't to high and that piracy is not a problem. When I want to move my main fleet out of a just-conquered system, I usually create a small TF out of obsolete ships and move them to the system until there are enough system ships built in the system to take care of piracy.

Unrest-reducing DEAs affect whole planets, not just regions. Keep taxes below the unrest-producing value and keep some ships in system to take care of piracy, and the revolting region will calm down on its own.

Ground forces don't go to any specific place on a planet. The consensus is that ground forces do not reduce unrest; they may prevent a revolting planet from breaking away from your empire and may reduce the chances of revolting citizens from destroying buildings.

4. The #1 most annoying thing about the GUI is when I'm creating a task force. I always always forget to get the pulldowns set right before I type the name in, and when I change the pulldowns it overwrites the name I typed with its generated one. Sometimes I do this twice in a row as I type the name, change the mission pulldown, retype the name, change the taskforce size pulldown, then retype the name for the last time. ARGH. I mainly just wanted to vent, but I also had some faint hope someone had a mod to nop this feature. I can't tell you how many times I've done this... Yes, I am half asleep when I play. Yes, quite annoying. I just got into the habbit of making the last thing I do with TF creation is renaming.

pedxing

07-14-2004, 08:07 PM

yeah, i just don't bother renaming TFs much anymore.

i set taxes to 0% on newly taken worlds. after unrest dies down, the viceroy will bring it back up to normal levels.

if i'm tweaking a planet to rush ship production, if it doesn't result in the projected completion time going under 5 turns, i give up and go work on a different planet.

did we ever figure out if fighter (and other) bases and planetary shields help with piracy? i know planetary shields were broken in 1.0, but didn't 1.25 fix that?

anyway, i always queue up a figheter base, planetary shield, and missile base or system frigate first thing when i settle or take a world. that's just good defense policy.

i like to customize my own race to Liberty, so that we are more politically cranky than anybody we take over. so if my empire wide policies can keep my own people happy, they'll keep everybody else happy too!

eastwind

07-17-2004, 03:26 AM

What sort of weapons are best for pounding defenseless planets?
There's a planet here that's got 500 Nommo on it and I'd just as soon blow them away and resettle the place from scratch since they haven't even built anything yet. They don't appear to be starving very fast due to my blockade... Do I want massive damage SR direct fire weapons? Or missles? Will "unload all weapons" really unload everything including PD or SR stuff?

I'm thinking to build a special planet scraper ship with just weapons, no shields, armor, ecm, eccm, detectors, cloaking, none of that stuff, just weapons that do damage to planets. Low system engine speed....

I'm about to run into 20 planets worth of Ithkul, so I have a lot of planet glassing in my future. My tech level is the high teens, so no stellar converters, I'm basically looking for help on category/mount.

Thanks again!!

silentrogue30

07-17-2004, 09:41 AM

May I suggest designing a missle ship with nothing but single shot missles. That should do th trick nicely;)

ThunderHammer

07-17-2004, 12:41 PM

I concur with silentrogue, missiles are probably the best weapon at any given tech level as they do much more damage than any df weapon of equivelent level. Cost, however, could be a factor with the type of ship he described. Especially if you lower the system speed considerably. I usually use direct fire ships exclusively, barring unexpected circumstances that make IF/CV ships especially attractive, so I will lay of these builds for you. At tech level ~10 Spinal-mounted rail guns on light cruisers do a decent job both in combat and for planetary bombardment. I suppose that fusion cannons could also do a decent job if they,re mounted spinally. At tech level ~22 plasma cannons become available. They easily do the most damage of any weapon before tech level 30-35. Gauss cannons become available at level ~26. I like the projectile weapon series because of the lack of damage fall-off and I usually switch to these for combat reasons.

I'm thinking to build a special planet scraper ship with just weapons, no shields, armor, ecm, eccm, detectors, cloaking, none of that stuff, just weapons that do damage to planets. Low system engine speed....

While this may sound cool in theory, but in practice if you come up against serious restistance, this type of a ship would simply be cannon fodder. Having no shields/armour and no system speed practically makes them a sitting duck. When I build IF or CV type ships, they usually get max speed/armour/shields to increase their survivability. Of course there are people that feel differently; there was a pretty good debate on this a while back in the strat forum. I guess it boild down to DOYPS(Depends On Your Play Style).

Just consider this(and this is the most common arguement for full system speed): If you signifigantly lower system speed, and put just sinlge shot missiles on your ship, once the first volley is away your glorious missile ships are about as useful as a colony ships. And you have to hope that your volley targets enemy fleets and not any incoming missiles/fighters.

Just my 2au.

silentrogue30

07-17-2004, 01:56 PM

The design I stated above is only good for 2 things.

1. Planet destroyer missions

2. Hit and run warfare. Why engage the enemy in a slugfest when you can pick him off a little at a time. It is a classic strategy proven through out time in warfare.

ThunderHammer the way to get around the cost issue is to use no armor or shields. This way it kind of balances the field a little. If I am able to use the hit and run it has huge benefits for me. If on the other hand I can't do it my ships get destroyed. Of course I do put 1 beam weapon on in case of enemy fighters.:D

ThunderHammer

07-17-2004, 02:43 PM

Ya, like I said; DOYPS. I acutally *like* huge multi-fleet slugfests.

As for the hit-and-run warfare, I detest it. It requires having a *lot* of ships in the reserves or else waiting until you can re-deploy your ships back to the system, which will take a *minimum* of two 2 turns(usually more like 3-6 until very late in the game when you have the top-of-the-line warp drives). In those turns, you could have an equal amount of planets conquered which greatly speeds up a sole-survivor game. :up: ;)

Of course I do put 1 beam weapon on in case of enemy fighters.
LOL!

silentrogue30

07-17-2004, 03:00 PM

Yes I do have huge reserves of ships to use. I also use the destoyer size hull to build them on. Just imagine what then enemy thinks when his a fleet of titan class ships get destroyed by a destroer class ship:D

eastwind

07-17-2004, 06:43 PM

Thanks for the response. Let me clarify and ask a followup.

My standard strategy (from MOo2) is to send in a fleet to take over a system. I wipe out the resistance, including planetary defenses, and then I will decide whether to invade it or glass it. For taking it over, I *then* send in transports (no sense risking them during the takeover phase). I have to let my TF sit a few turns while the transports arrive, they usually mop up a counterattack or two while they're waiting.

So in case I want to glass it instead, I want a special planet-glasser build that will never engage in any serious combat, like a transport. So what I need is a sitting duck loaded for bear (picture that)!

Missles sound reasonable, but I'm not sure about the one-shot. If "unload all ordinance" really unloads everything, it will shoot all the missles a ship has, whether its 1 per rack or 5 per rack. Since the multiples-per-rack are more space efficient, shouldn't I go for the maximum number of missles per rack? If "unload everything" only takes one round of shots, how is it different from "bombard"?

Second question is whether PD weapons are used when bombarding a planet, because I could use either PD missles or regular missles....

A battleship full of nothing but PD missles will be very very expensive, but its worth it because it will free my main TF up that many turns sooner to move on. (I need to keep them on station while I do the bombardment in case of more counter attacks). I'm only going to be building one of these ships, maybe two at most, so cost is mostly no object. Obviously I don't want armored missles.

edit: I checked the damage/space ratios for the varieties of missles I have (Nuclear, Anionic, Neutronium) and the mounts (PD, rocket, light missle). I found the best ratio for 1-shot racks was the light mount, neutronium, so I dont need to worry about whether the PD's would fire or not. I have two possible builds: a battleship with no shields or armor, an M09 Sublight drive, an E13 Impluse Engine with the speed cranked down to 240, and one Neutronium (light missle mount) missle with 60 missles. If all missles are fired they will do 242 each, 14520 overall. If only one is fired it will do only 242 :-P The second build is the same only with 30 Neutronium light missle mount racks of one shot each. That does 7260 damage all at once. The cost of the two builds is 3437 AU for the first one and 2417 AU for the second one. Damage per cost is better for the first build, again assuming it uses all the missles.

silentrogue30

07-17-2004, 07:39 PM

I am pretty sure I seen something on here for figureing planetary damage. I think said something along the lines that it figured the damage done to be equall to all the weapons fireing once. Which is why I went with the single shot missle approach.

ThunderHammer

07-17-2004, 08:43 PM

My standard strategy (from MOo2) is to send in a fleet to take over a system. I wipe out the resistance, including planetary defenses, and then I will decide whether to invade it or glass it. For taking it over, I *then* send in transports (no sense risking them during the takeover phase). I have to let my TF sit a few turns while the transports arrive, they usually mop up a counterattack or two while they're waiting.

eastwind, I understand where you're coming from. There are 2 basic strategies when invading; the one you outlined, and this one: Send troops at the same time as your main force.

I personally send 8 armadas and 2 troopship detachments late game. (You can fit ten troop pods on a battleship with Ion Drives and Impulse Engines).

I want a special planet-glasser build that will never engage in any serious combat, like a transport.

It's impossible to say that it would *never* engage in combat. You can plan all you want, but eventually the enemy *will* enter combat against one. I still suggest that you design the ship so that it can hold it's own in combat.

I have two possible builds: a battleship with no shields or armor, an M09 Sublight drive, an E13 Impluse Engine

With this kind of tech, the subject becomes moot. Even if you loaded up the battleship with simple lasers, it'd pack enough punch to knock down a colony in a timely fashion. As a rule of thumb, once you have battleships(if you haven't run up the Physical Sciences tree) any new weapon that you've researched will do enough damage for quick glassing.

Here are some buildups that demonstrate my point:

1)Battleship.
Impulse engine(lev ~14 energy) and Fusion Drives(lev ~14 math)
17 Spinal mount Neutron Blasters(no mods)- 1122 damage.
Total Damage: 1122
Cost: 2748

2)Battleship.
Impulse engine, Fusion Drives, medium duramium armour, class 2 shields, normal shield generator
15 Spinal Mount Neutron Blasters- 990 damage
Total damage: 990
Cost:2747

3)Battleship.
Impulse engine, Fusion Drives
9 Autofire Spinal mount Rail Guns- 1620 damage(540*3 from autofire)
1 Spinal mount Rail Gun- 60 damage
Total damage: 1620+60=1680
Cost:2139(no shields or armour)

4)Battleship.
Impulse engine, Fusion Drives, medium duramium armour, class 2 shields, normal shield generator
8 Autofire Spinal mount Rail Guns- 1440 damage(480*3 from autofire)
1 Spinal mount Rail Gun- 60 damage
Total damage: 1440+60=1500
Cost:2222

5)Battleship.
Impulse engine(system speed 1), Fusion Drives
21 Light Neutronium Missiles(1 shot)- 5082
Total damage: 4840
Cost:2153

6)Battleship.
Impulse engine, Fusion Drives
1 Neutronuim Missile(62 shots)- 242*62=15004 damage
Total damage: 15004
Cost:3547

7)Battleship.
Impulse engine, Fusion Drives
13 Spinal Hellfire Cannons- 1742 damage
Total damage: 1742
Cost:3487

8)Battleship.
Impulse engine, Fusion Drives, medium duramium armour, class 2 shields, normal shield generator
12 Spinal Hellfire Cannons- 1608 damage
Total damage: 1608
Cost:3482

Now some notes: Obviously, for the DF weapons builds rail guns are the way to go if you get autofire. You get 100 less damage than Hellfire Cannons, but the cost is 1200au's less.

The missile boats definately do more damage, but are far less useful in actual combat IMO. The 21 rack boat has only one shot, so it better count. The 62-shot boat has more shots(no kidding!), but enemy tf's will be able to knock down the individaul missles easily.

So once again, IMO, the DF equipped ships are the better choice. And ponder this; if you just set your main planets to build these, then you can use them in your normal armada build-up without worry. In fact, in the game I came up with the builds from, these particular designs(#4) lasted me well into the mid-20 tech levels until I researched gauss cannons. So all I'm trying to say is: If you can get away with building just 1 type of ship for multiple roles(combat and bombardment in this case), then you will save yourself many hassles. The micromanagement of setting military build queues, the hassle of making sure you have the right amount of ships for a TF, etc.

All you need with #4 is PD and Recon ships. If you were to build one of the missile boats, you also need to build them, PD and recons for them, combat ships, PD and recon combat ships. :eek:

To me, IMHO, it's more hassle than it's worth. Your other option, and it's an idea I'm warming up to, is to build multi-purpose ships with DF, IF and/or CV and PD all rolled into one hull. I've began experimenting with them in my current game, and they seem to work well in large numbers.

Anyway, that's my 2au and I'll let you make up your mind on your own.

elizibar

07-17-2004, 09:00 PM

Originally posted by ThunderHammer
To me, IMHO, it's more hassle than it's worth. Your other option, and it's an idea I'm warming up to, is to build multi-purpose ships with DF, IF and/or CV and PD all rolled into one hull. I've began experimenting with them in my current game, and they seem to work well in large numbers.

My typical warship is a multi-purpose vessel. It combines a one or two shot missile capability with a wing of fighters and fair direct fire capability. Build this ship as Long Range, Point Defense, and Recon (or whatever your installed mods need you to use to fill out a task force) and the sheer numbers of them compensate for any individual weaknesses. 10 Armadas of these routinely flatten equal numbers of AI-built ships, even when on a slight technology disadvantage (A great disadvantage is something else).

Sometimes I've used ships designed on turn 40 up until turn 100-something simply because in their massed formations they are still up to the job of smashing my enemies.

eastwind

07-18-2004, 07:14 PM

Yet another question (this game is so complicated)!

I'm not sure to what extent Visage's guide is updated for 1.25.
Do PD weapons now (1.25) get the MultiFire *= 2 they are supposed to or is that still broken?
I've seen all sorts of discussion on whether the Armor Penetrating mod works or not, is there a consensus on that?

It looks to me like if all the weapons mods work the way they're supposed to, that all are worth the space, at least if you don't count the money/time to build. Is that a good newb-level conclusion?

ThunderHammer

07-18-2004, 09:14 PM

I think the consensus is that PD mounts do not give the multi-fire bonus. People are often saying that light mount seems to work the best for PD.

As for AP, the general consensus is that it does work. However, it is not worth the extra space until after tech level ~20 or once you research better armour. I usually get away with just autofire rail guns until level 25ish. If you were to use a weapon with lower damage(eg. hard beams), then AP is probably worth it.

I'd suggest you check out the "tips and suggestions" thread is this forum. In my second post, there are multiple links to weapon-related threads, all of which are excellent. Also, I belive that Visage has recently updated his thread for 1.2.5 so it should also be a *very* good source of information, even though it is quite long.

It looks to me like if all the weapons mods work the way they're supposed to, that all are worth the space, at least if you don't count the money/time to build. Is that a good newb-level conclusion?

I use pretty much everything except enveloping or shield penetrating, but I tend to gravitate towards to projectile-series weapons that do not have thos particular mods. As such I haven't had much opportunity to experiment with them.

Yet another question (this game is so complicated)!

Don't feel bad, most everyone was at least a *little* confuzzled in their first few games. And even the vets are still learing new tricks.

All I can say is this: Experiment! Find what works for you and constantly try to improve on it.

eastwind

07-19-2004, 01:19 AM

Thanks, I've read through some of the stickied threads, including Visage's. Whenever there is a link to another thread, though, I can't follow it, it says its been removed. I assumed I was basically too late to the forum and Atari had pruned things down to the bone.

I've built several experimental ships just now:
the no armor, no shields one missle with 60 shots battleship,
a LR spinal rail gun battleship,
some cutters that have two one-shot missles (I call them cutnrun),

and I'm still trying all these things out. Part of my problem with visage's thread is that the tables sort of presume you have every tech possible at a given level, and I don't. I had to steal hard beams, and I don't have all the mods for it.

Thanks for the info on PD and AP; that will help. Because I didn't know for sure it would work I've been sticking to light mounts anyway. But I have built a few AP weapons based on the threads where people wrote they thought it seemed to work for them. Too bad the game didn't get one more patch to clean all this stuff up.

Its a shame really, its such a big game and extends MOO2 in lots of ways that could have made it as successful a follow on as CIV 3. But the bad reviews really killed it. At my local Frys Electronics, they're selling MOO3 for $10, and they still have new copies of MOO2 on sale for $13!

eastwind

07-21-2004, 05:28 AM

The one missle-rack-with-60-reloads battleship sucks at planet glassing. I attacked a planet with only 500 people and it took off about 4% of the population (20 people). A hand grenade would do better.

Meanwhile I got totally jumped by a neighbor that had been on really good terms with me. He cancelled a trade agreement that had stood for 50 turns, next turn he declared war, turn after that he showed up with 4 armadas and made my 5 BB's take a hike. This on turn 135.

Lennier

07-21-2004, 10:07 AM

There's a bug in the calculation of damage during planetary bombardment that only counts the racks of missiles (i.e., missiles are fired once during planetary bombardment, not emptying thier racks.)

The general consensus is that dircet fire weapons are more efficient at glassing planets than missiles or fighters. And you need to get up to at least hard beams with armadas to take out planets in one turn.

silentrogue30

07-21-2004, 06:53 PM

Of course, that is where the single shot missile rack comes in handy.:D

eastwind

07-27-2004, 04:19 AM

'nother question:

I tried to glass this planet, and in one or two turns (i forget) got it way down, to a population of about 90. Unfortunately, after that, it went to a lowercase planet name and wont let me attack it anymore. What to do? I want to clean it so I can resettle with a race of my choosing, but I can't starve it. The population is now up to 116 and growing about 5 a turn. Its Ajadar on the planet, and the planets list viewed by Ajadar shows it as an R2-Toxic for them, but they're growing! The planet still shows owned by the Silicoids, but it was 100% Ajadar, it must have been a migration case. I can't figure why the Ajadar would pick that pile of rock if its R2-T for them, or what they're eating down there.

Seems like a really long way around to send in troops and then try to get them to revolt. I've never had a revolt last long enough for the planet to break away anyhow, since I'm playing on easy.

The Wagster

07-27-2004, 04:38 AM

When you're glassing a planet you need to keep bombing the same planet until the job's done.

As you're no doubt aware a colony is a planet with more than 1000 pop, any less than that is an outpost. Colonies you can bombard or invade but outposts you can't. If you bomb a colony down to below 1000 the game starts to think of it as an outpost and then you can't attack it anymore:sour: Unless, that is, you keep bombing the same planet turn after turn from a population above 1000 all the way down to 0, if you keep attacking the same planet each turn it won't be considered an outpost.

To solve your particular predicament you have a few options.

[list=1]
Wait for the planet to starve, as you have noticed this may not happen.
Wait for the outpost to turn into a colony, then glass it good:) Unfortunately this may not happen either. This means an outpost may never starve (pop drop to 0) or become a colony (pop rise to 1000):(
Land a colony ship on it and live with the ajadar minority.
Land a colony ship, give the planet back to the silicoids and glass it good:D
[/list=1]

There may be other options but I can't think of any at the moment.

eastwind

07-28-2004, 05:18 AM

I do not understand the deal with piracy. Earlier in the game 4 system ships would stamp it out. Now in one system I have eleven ships and unrest level 3 due to piracy. In this one system I have 4 cutters (with warp drives), 2 system frigates and 5 system lancers. Are these tiny ships not capable of running down a pirate or something? Does the ship mission matter? The frigates are IF, the others are LR, basically one beam weapon apiece. Just how much dogmeat do I need?

Deejax

07-28-2004, 06:03 AM

Originally posted by eastwind
I do not understand the deal with piracy. Earlier in the game 4 system ships would stamp it out. Now in one system I have eleven ships and unrest level 3 due to piracy. In this one system I have 4 cutters (with warp drives), 2 system frigates and 5 system lancers. Are these tiny ships not capable of running down a pirate or something? Does the ship mission matter? The frigates are IF, the others are LR, basically one beam weapon apiece. Just how much dogmeat do I need? The amount of piracy depends on the population of the planets in the system. Piracy control depends on the number of 'hull points' (e.g. a frigate equals 4 hull points) you've got patroling the system.
I don't remember the exact relation, but a system with many large planets will require quite a fleet to suppress pirate activity.

ThunderHammer

07-28-2004, 08:44 AM

What I usally do when piracy becomes a problem is I design a system frigate with no armour/shields and a single beam weapon designated as LRA. Then I ga through my systems and queue up these ships according to how longer each will take to build and by how many planets are in a system. If a planet has only a small amount of industry, then I'll queue up single builds. But if there a a couple of big planets in the system, in the third space on the queue I'll queue up a 5x or 10x build. This is mainly to get a couple of ships out quick and then to remove the problem completely. Here are a couple of examples of what I mean.

Solar System Alpha; 2 size5, 1 size10, 1 size4. The size ten planet will probably be beuild my warships, so it's queue will already be filled. There isn't a *lot* of population in this system(I seem to recall 1 hull point per ten pop points to quell unrest) So one the three small planets, I'll queue up 1x,1x,5x builds. This will give me 7 ships per planet or 21 ships total *5(frigate is the fifth hull design I believe) for 108 hull points.

Solar System Hydrae; 1 size4, 1 size5, 1size6 3size7, 2 size11. The size 11's will definatlely be building my warships and as you can see, There is(or will be) a lot of pop in the system. So one my size 5, 6and 7 planets I'll queue up a 5x,5x,10x build. one my size4 I'll queue up a 1x,1x and 5x build.

Once every system is done, I go obsolete the ship. Make sure you do this or else you'll quickly have 200 useless system ships in a system. Hope this helps you.

Bard of Prey

07-28-2004, 03:06 PM

Originally posted by Deejax
I don't remember the exact relation, but a system with many large planets will require quite a fleet to suppress pirate activity.

Specifically, each occupied region in a system (totalled from all occupied planets) generates a 'point' of piracy. Every ship (or orbital?) in the system counters a number of points of piracy equal to its hull size (so, 1 for Lancers, 2 for Cutters, etc.).

Personally, what I used to do was build 2 Cutter-sized and 2 Frigate-sized System ships (in that order) at every new planet. Those ships will cancel out the piracy for a full, size-12 world, and they can be built in a reasonable amount of time on a developing planet, though you may want to leave your invasion fleet (or a mobile defense fleet) in orbit until the system fleet starts coming on-line.

Note that these aren't 'empty hulls', or obsolete ships... I build strong system ships, and keep them up to date as much as possible (though I won't usually bother to update system fleets in backwater systems... they're there mostly for pirate control). This way, your system fleet also serves as a useful defense against small incursions, or a back-up to your main fleet in an emergency.

eastwind

07-29-2004, 01:15 AM

Well that explains why I get rid of the pirates and they come back, because the systems are growing. Its a little unreasonable from a storyline point of view, piracy should be proportional to the number of unoccupied regions in a system, since they need somewhere to hide and preying on shipping when you can never get out of site of all the witnesses is a little impractical.

Bard of Prey

07-29-2004, 01:30 AM

Originally posted by eastwind
Well that explains why I get rid of the pirates and they come back, because the systems are growing. Its a little unreasonable from a storyline point of view, piracy should be proportional to the number of unoccupied regions in a system, since they need somewhere to hide and preying on shipping when you can never get out of site of all the witnesses is a little impractical.

Fair enough, but I think it's supposed to represent the idea that piracy is proportional to how settled the system is, as a reflection of how much trade was going on (not much to steal when there's only 1 size 2 planet around).

A better system, IMHO, would have piracy proportional to the actual amount of trade going in and out of the system... but that's just me... ;)

Dark Duke

07-29-2004, 06:38 AM

Hello Everybody,

thanks for offering this question and answers service first of all.

The gret advice collected in all the strategy threads answered all my difficult questions (DevPlans, Zoning, Ship Design), but for the small things I will need you:

1) How do I terraform a planet (where to click to set it literally) and is it worth to do it or shoudl I wait until I have enmys conquered or magnates to fill it with ?

2) Can you rename a Planet (seems like according to some posts) and how do you do that. Do I need a mod for that ?

I am one hell of a beginner at this game, but we once all were, so have some pity on a stranded MOO1 veteran.

Thanks in Advance

Duke out...

ThunderHammer

07-29-2004, 08:39 AM

Hi Duke, and welcome to the game!

1) How do I terraform a planet (where to click to set it literally) and is it worth to do it or shoudl I wait until I have enmys conquered or magnates to fill it with ?

First you need to research a terraforming tech. IIRC, it's aroung level 10 in ohysical sciences. Once you have researched a tech, the Viceroys will pretty much do yoiur terraforming for you. As for waiting to colonize, that is very much a DOYPS(Depends On Your Play Style) issue. Generally a good rule of thumb is to colonize all the planets that are green for your race in the area of space you designate as "yours". Then it is very much a matter of looking at your galactic position.

- Are you weaker or stronger than your neighbours?
- Do you have any magnates in your space?

If you are much weaker and don't have any magnates my advice would be to colonize away! In the long term you may save some AU's by colonizing the planet with a race more suited to it, but if you have to wait for a race to colonize with, then you are stunting your own growth, which could very much be your downfall. If you colonize immediately with a race that is less suited, you may may more for terraforming and use more colony ships to colonize the planet, but you will have the planet that much quicker and it can start growing into one of your industry or research worlds.

2) Can you rename a Planet (seems like according to some posts) and how do you do that. Do I need a mod for that ?

All you need is the official 1.2.5 patch. To re-name a planet, you must first own(have a full colony on it) it. Then all you have to do is go into the planetary screen. In the center of the screen you will see a box with the details of your planet in it. at the bottom of the box is a "rename" button. Click on it, type the new name of the planet in the field and hit enter or click the checkmark. To rename a sun, you must have a colonized planet in the system. Go into the system view and click on the sun. There will be a rename button that appears in the info panel. Follow the steps above to rename it.

Lennier

07-29-2004, 10:22 AM

Originally posted by eastwind
Well that explains why I get rid of the pirates and they come back, because the systems are growing. Its a little unreasonable from a storyline point of view, piracy should be proportional to the number of unoccupied regions in a system, since they need somewhere to hide and preying on shipping when you can never get out of site of all the witnesses is a little impractical. I actually treat (in my mind) the term "piracy" as a generic term for lawlessness/criminality going on in the system (smuggling, banditry, organized crime, etc., in addition to space piracy.) A fleet presence can help the police quash such lawlessness; but the more people in the system, the more "evil-dooers" there will be, and the more police/fleet needed to keep them under control. In addition, space is a big place; pirates are going to be able to find a place to hide somewhere in the system.

The Wagster

07-29-2004, 11:36 AM

Originally posted by Dark Duke
1) How do I terraform a planet (where to click to set it literally) and is it worth to do it or shoudl I wait until I have enmys conquered or magnates to fill it with ?

Appologies if I'm wrong but it sounds like you think you can terraform planets to your liking before you colonise it, therefore picking to terraform it to best suit your main race or a magnate. Unfortunately it doesn't work like that. When you have researched terraform techs your viceroy will automatically build them (they go in the Planetary Build Que just below the Military Que). The techs will move the planet either one hab ring (red/yellow/green/sweetspot etc.) or one gravity level closer to the ideal for the dominant race on that planet. So if you have a planet that's 60% Humans and 40% Mrrshan terraforming will move the planet nearer to ideal for the Humans, even if the planet is already a closer match for Mrrshans.

Lennier

07-29-2004, 03:05 PM

Originally posted by Wag2003
When you have researched terraform techs your viceroy will automatically build them (they go in the Planetary Build Que just below the Military Que). The techs will move the planet either one hab ring (red/yellow/green/sweetspot etc.)Not quite right. Once you have a terraforming tech, you do terraforming on the terraforming slider, between the "economic development" and "research" sliders. Each terraforming tech will enable you to move the planet one more ring from its starting postion (yellow2 to yellow1, is one ring for these purposes) up to sweet spot; the last terraforming trech will allow you t terraform sweet spots up to paradise.or one gravity level closer to the ideal for the dominant race on that planet.The gravity-"enhancing" items are built in the PBQ; they will make the planet one step closer to "green" for any citizen on the planet, not just the dominant.So if you have a planet that's 60% Humans and 40% Mrrshan terraforming will move the planet nearer to ideal for the Humans, even if the planet is already a closer match for Mrrshans. This is correct. However, if you had a low-gravity planet with 40% cynoid (who prefer low-gravity worlds) and 60% Eoladi (who prefer extreme-gravity worlds) and you build the gravity-items on the planet, it will still be green for the Cynoids, but will become less red for the Eoladi.

eastwind

07-29-2004, 10:55 PM

Originally posted by Dark Duke
[
1) How do I terraform a planet (where to click to set it literally) and is it worth to do it or shoudl I wait until I have enmys conquered or magnates to fill it with ?
]

I'm usually asking questions here, but I think your question implies you want to terraform a planet before you colonize it, to make it easier to colonize. Lennier's answer doesn't explicitly say you can't do this; but that's the implication. You have to colonize it, get to 1000 pop, and then it can be terraformed. What I've been doing in my very first game here is to try to colonize a green planet in the system first, then send system colony ships to the red ones when the first one is going well enough to build them. I'm using a spreadsheet to keep track of all the habitability levels of all the planets for all of my races (including magnates and AI opponents which I've stolen a planet from). I'm up to a dozen races and still some planets are red2-toxic for everyone. If anyone has a better way I'm up for it because this micromanagement of colonization is a PITA.

ThunderHammer

07-30-2004, 01:14 AM

I have heard reports that using "Auto-colonization" will colonize using the race most suited for the planet in question. The problem is, the AI will only send enough colony ships to establish a colony; it won't "mass colonize"(landing multiple colony ships on a single planet). I have tried this once or twice, but I found the AI's choice somewhat... odd... most of the time.

Lennier

07-30-2004, 10:44 AM

Originally posted by eastwind
I'm usually asking questions here, but I think your question implies you want to terraform a planet before you colonize it, to make it easier to colonize. Lennier's answer doesn't explicitly say you can't do this; but that's the implication. You have to colonize it, get to 1000 pop, and then it can be terraformed. What I've been doing in my very first game here is to try to colonize a green planet in the system first, then send system colony ships to the red ones when the first one is going well enough to build them. I'm using a spreadsheet to keep track of all the habitability levels of all the planets for all of my races (including magnates and AI opponents which I've stolen a planet from). I'm up to a dozen races and still some planets are red2-toxic for everyone. If anyone has a better way I'm up for it because this micromanagement of colonization is a PITA. I don't know if my way of micromanagement is better, but it doesn't involve keeping a spreadsheet.

When I have a colony ship ready (as seen from the SITREP), I'll open up the planets tab, check the "uncontrolled" box, primary sort terraform ring, secondary sort gravity, and select the species of the colony ship. The first planet on the list is the best uncontrolled planet for that species (that I know about). I'll click the location tab to see where it is, because often (especiall by midgame) the planet is inconvienently inside another empire's borders. I'll keep going down till I find a suitable planet inside, or reasonably close to, my borders. I'll double-click on the planet (which, if you're in the location view of the planets tab, will bring up the galaxy screen centered on the system with the planet), find the nearest Mob Center, and send a colony ship.

eastwind

07-31-2004, 07:19 PM

I did that for a while, but somehow my micromanagement insticts took over. I think it had to do with deciding which planets to colonize first, and that involved keeping a list of habitability/richness/gravity/bioharvest, which I doscovered is different for the different races... and the monster sort of evolved.

I have a new question/problem/bug:

I'm conquoring two systems, rather slowly since they were both 7 planets fully built up by the races involved (they were their home systems). So lots of population, terraforming done, etc, and I want to occupy them more-or-less intact, so no glassing. And so I've been taking them one at a time as I had transports & troops available. Eventually I got to a point where the first planet I took had built a mobilization center while I still had other planets to take.

This seems to cause a bug. I can no longer invade those other planets. On the screen where it gives me a choice of manually controlling space-planet combat it doesn't show any troops, and when I get to the actual manual fight the land troops button is gray, all in spite of the fact I have 3 army's in orbit. By now all bugs must be known, is there a workaround for this or do I have to glass from here?

silentrogue30

07-31-2004, 07:25 PM

If you have more then 10 TF's in the system it radomly picks the ones that do battle. The way aroud it is to send some TF's away to have only 10 in the system. That should work so you can invade.

eastwind

07-31-2004, 07:35 PM

Ohhhh, that explains a couple things. Thanks for the quick answer!
I got bit by that when I was attacked too; I launched a huge wave of fighters, and while I was watching them eat up the enemy my ships ran away. The fighters wiped the enemy out, and next turn I not only had ships running in all directions, I had some others sitting at the system. I was wondering where those others came from. Now I understand the point in forming armadas....

So I guess its not a bug, its a design choice to force you to build the armadas, which in turn forces you to build the required escort ships.
I'm going to have to reorganize my fleet....

silentrogue30

07-31-2004, 07:42 PM

Hey no problem. Do you know about bhuric's patcher? It is a must have along with the 1.2.5patch but you know about that one right? Bhuric's patcher fixes some of the problems in the game. Gets the AI to invade planets fixes the bankrupcy bug plus it also increases the number of AI empires to 30 to name a few.

eastwind

07-31-2004, 08:28 PM

Yes, thanks, in my very first game I'm running with
Bhuric's pather, patch pak 0706,
diplomod v2,
encyclopedia mod v4.3,
Improved tech descriptions v4
Mithyls flag pak
Orion senate laws mod 1-4
starnames v1
uzi font pack 1.0

One of the mods causes some font problems, the name for command center takes up two lines in the list box for creating armies and overwrites the line below it. But no big deal. I suppose its either the font pack or the tech descriptions mod making the string too long for one line of the list box. No biggie anyway.

I did a bit of reading here before I started :D
But there's just so many minutiae

So I have a follow up question, how do I build a transport flotilla with more than one army? Until now I just build one army per one transport TF and send two or three of them together, but now I want them all in one TF.

Thanks again.

silentrogue30

07-31-2004, 08:34 PM

Now that as far as I know is not possible:( . To the best of my knowledge it is 1 army per task force.

eastwind

07-31-2004, 08:47 PM

Bummer.

The AI keeps sending transport armadas my way, I guess it can do it. I'd hate to think those transports I've been blowing to smithereens half a dozen at a time were all empty.

silentrogue30

07-31-2004, 09:00 PM

one thing I have noticed is all those AI transport armadas have only 1 ship in them :weird:

Bhruic

07-31-2004, 09:05 PM

There's nothing stopping you from adding other ships to a transport fleet. You just can't add other armies (which makes adding transports kinda pointless). If you want to throw an armed escort, you can. Just keep in mind that all ships in the TF get disbanded when you land the army.

Bh

silentrogue30

07-31-2004, 09:19 PM

What is wierd is that those so called armadas have only 1 ship in them. I can't understand how they have 1 ship and still be an armada.

Also I would like to thank you for your patcher Bhruic, Now if the AI will actually send some support with his transports he might actually take some of my planets:eek:

eastwind

07-31-2004, 09:28 PM

I've been seeing AI transport armadas with multiple ships, but some ships are escorts because they're bigger. But they all get blown up by my first missle wave before I can zoom in and really get a good look at them :egrin:

Bhruic

07-31-2004, 09:42 PM

Originally posted by silentrogue30
What is wierd is that those so called armadas have only 1 ship in them. I can't understand how they have 1 ship and still be an armada.

Every transport fleet the AI makes seems to be called 'Armada'. Just one more, uh, unique feature of the game, I guess. :) I have seen them with more than 1 ship before tho'.

Also I would like to thank you for your patcher Bhruic, Now if the AI will actually send some support with his transports he might actually take some of my planets:eek:

That's why I'm trying to get the autobuild routine improved. Better ships should result in the AI losing less, and having more to take on the player with - making the transports actually have a job to do.

But the autobuild 'fix' is taking even more effort than I imagined (always multiply by x10, dammit!).

Bh

silentrogue30

07-31-2004, 09:49 PM

You truely are amazeing Bhruic. They should have had you on the project from the begining.

eastwind

08-08-2004, 09:55 PM

So let me make sure I'm doing this right....

I'm trying to fix my piracy epidemic. So for a system with all planets colonized, I add up the total number of regions on each planet, and that's the number of hull points I need in system? And hull points are figured as:

1 Lancer
2 Cutter
3 Corvette
4 Frigate
5 Destroyer
6 Light Cruiser
7 Cruiser
8 Battle Cruiser
9 Battleship
10 Dreadnaught

Or should I be looking at total population and ship capacity (as in, "A Dreadnaught has about twice the base capacity as a Battle Cruiser")

And do orbitals count? And on the same scale?

And if I'm going to build, say, an orbital per planet to help with piracy, is there any point in stuffing them with research labs? Or do the research labs only help with discovering antaran X's, and not with research?

Right now I'm cranking out destroyers because they seem to have a good price/performance point. I gave up on my strategy of filling the systems with swarms of lancers as being unnecessarily expensive.

Bard of Prey

08-09-2004, 01:08 AM

Originally posted by eastwind
So let me make sure I'm doing this right....

I'm trying to fix my piracy epidemic. So for a system with all planets colonized, I add up the total number of regions on each planet, and that's the number of hull points I need in system?

Yep. Your list of hull values is right too.

And do orbitals count? And on the same scale?

Also yes. The trouble with orbitals though, is that they can't intercept enemy fleets (which system ships can). I believe they do count for the whole system though, although I could be wrong, and they only affect the planet they orbit.

And if I'm going to build, say, an orbital per planet to help with piracy, is there any point in stuffing them with research labs? Or do the research labs only help with discovering antaran X's, and not with research?

No point at all. Research labs just increase your chances of finding Xs in an expedition.

Right now I'm cranking out destroyers because they seem to have a good price/performance point. I gave up on my strategy of filling the systems with swarms of lancers as being unnecessarily expensive.

Lancers are (IMHO) completely pointless. Personally, I find that a mix of Cutters, Frigates and the occasional Light Cruiser will do just fine for most system defense fleets.

eastwind

08-14-2004, 11:36 PM

Well I seem to have an infinite number of questions, I'm glad people keep answering! Thanks!!

About those numbers across the top of the star-map screen... The ones that show your BioHarvest production/consumption, Mining production/consumption, Industry points, Production points and Research points....

I read on some thread a while back that I can't find again somebody had a development plan or strategy that basicaly tried to make sure the BioHarvest Production was not too much greater than the BioHarvest consumption, and the same for Mining. His point was that extra is waste. But then I read that there are some techs (?) that cause your food requirement to go up dramatically (because they start turning it directly into production IIRC). So I decided I'd better just let the Viceroy do his thing and worry about it later. Well, now its later :D

I'm at turn 245, I have 385 planets (3-arm spiral galaxy), average tech 31, and am well ahead of all the other races in all categories. I can win via the senate any time I vote for myself, and soon I'll eliminate Orions and be the only one left in the senate (which might end my game even though I want to play to last-man-standing).
There are still 6 races left that are all at war with me constantly.

So my "numbers" are:
Bio 53.3/14.9
Mn 241.9/74.7
Ind 527.6
Pro 287.9
Rsrch 693.6(763.8)

Is it worth going through some of my developed planets and replacing some less-optimal Bio and Mining DEAs with Industry or Research DEAs? My hesitation is that most of the DEAS have about 6 enhancements, and it seems like a pretty expensive proposition.
I found today in the Econ 101 thread a claim that the excess Bio and Mining gets turned into cash, although its not clear who I could possibly be selling it to with them all at war with me.

The other worry is the lousy industry efficiency, 287.9/527.6 is only about 55%, which seems awful. Any hints on what to look for if that's an exceptionally bad number?

I forget who's development plan I used, might have been DaBlades, but I haven't tweaked it since I switched over from expanding to infilling. The infilling is pretty much done, and now its total war all the time.

Well thanks for reading!

Chaos Effect

08-15-2004, 12:15 AM

My advice to you would be to keep the game FUN. If you're the class of the galaxy, there's not much point spending at least an hour(probably more like two hours if you haven't been trimming your planets regulary) putting your planets on the bio/mineral diet. It's more work than it's worth. Besides, you do get cash more the excess, so it's not a total waste. ;)

As for your Production, the only thing I can think of is to check your Military-Political Economy. If it's set to Peace and Prosperity, you'll be dumping a lot more funds into research than industry. Try bumping it up to limited or total war. If that doesn't cure it, then your planets are probably running extremely inefficiently and you'll have to go through and re-zone them. My advice for this is the same as above though. If you're building enough ships to win your wars, then there's no point in doing all that work. I simply shudder at the thought of going through nearly 400 planets that you haven't touched yet. :p

Chaos

eastwind

08-15-2004, 03:15 AM

Thanks for the point about keeping it fun, sometimes I do feel like I've done a lot of work after playing the game :bulb: With this many planets I don't do anything completely, in any of these micromanagement maneuvers I just go after the heavy hitters and mess with them and ignore the bottom half or 3/4 of the planets completely.

For this I was figuring to sort the list by 1. Fertility and 2. Bio production and find the "step" points in the list and go after the planets that were the largest bio producers for their fertility class. Given that its sort of a first-time experiment I'd rezone 50 regions and see what happens in a few turns. If anybody thinks its a good idea (apart from the effort).

Right now I"m at Total War, and as the balance tipped in my favor a few turns back I'm down to 40% overall military spending. I seldom mess with the military/planetary/research sliders for individual planets, I just sort by production and queue ships at the top producers and let the bottom 3/4 be idle on military production, unless they're producing anti-piracy ships. Even for that I just pick the planet in the system with the highest production and queue ships there, leaving the others idle. I was wondering if that's why the efficiency is so low: because so few planets actually have anything to build (every planet's build queue gets locked immediately). All the planetary economies are Roy-managed apart from the build queue. And I haven't zoned DEAs at all except sometimes I put in 1 govt and maybe 1 mil dea when I first get a planet. The development policies have worked pretty well at initially building up the planets.

There are things I dont understand about the planetary economy sliders; I read that the color of the bar indicates its efficiency; but since I'm letting Roy set the bars I haven't worried if they were red. I don't know what the orange exclamation points I sometimes see mean, either.

Another one that really beats me is why Roy keeps setting the planetary taxes higher than I want: I've got system at 5% and empire at 10% but he sets individual planetary tax rates as high as 21% sometimes. The people complain, I come in and lower it 4 or 5% and everybody thinks I'm a great emperor. Go figure.

And how do you "coddle" Nommo?

Chaos Effect

08-15-2004, 12:40 PM

Your industry and production points should be about even. Even with locked military queues, your planets are still building DEA upgrades and planetary improvements. But like I said before, I wouldn't worry too much about it if you're keeping up with your ship building.

in any of these micromanagement maneuvers I just go after the heavy hitters and mess with them and ignore the bottom half or 3/4 of the planets completely

I do the same thing, nut I sort by population. If you haven't done so allready, I suggest that your read Strifeguards DevPlan Theory. His ideas work really well for me.

Your tax rates seem about right too. IIRC, it shoud add up to about 35%.

I don't know what the orange exclamation points I sometimes see mean, either.

I don't worry about the colour of the bar either. Your still building faster, so what's the problem right? The "!" means that your spending enough to build all of the item in the given queue in one turn. What I do when I seee this is to back the slider down until the "!" goes away, then increase it by 1% so you'll still build it in one turn. I'm pretty sure it's not nescessary, but it's a habit I have :noob: .

And how do you "coddle" Nommo?

A couple of military DEA's does the trick. :p If your talking about diplomacy, then I can't really answer; I don't play the diplo game too much. Other the trade 'n research treaties of course. I feel that since they'll declare war on your anyways, there isn't much point putting any effort into it. I start "inviting" empires into my own as soon as I have the ships available. :cool:

Chaos

eastwind

08-16-2004, 03:06 AM

re coddling nomo, I was talking about managing the occupied worlds. I read some thread somebody said that was a part of unrest management -- but didn't elaborate. I guess extra military DEAs is the answer.

I'm totally confused about taxes. I had system/empire set on 5/10, and Roy kept setting the planetary taxes as high as 20%, at which point I'd get unrest, investigate, find it due to "HighTax" (why did the developers think they had to say the unrest was due to High taxes? -- but if that were the only thing wrong....), and bump it down a few notches.

I got tired of doing that, and decided to lower empire wide taxes, so I set them to 5/7. Now Roy is setting planetary taxes all the way to 23%!!!! :cry: What a PITA. Its only a few planets a turn, but who needs the hassle? I need a button to fire the current viceroy and replace him with a different one. :angry: Off with his head! :down: If the tax rates are supposed to total 12% and he's collecting 23%, somebody's getting rich and it ain't the government. Is the answer more govt DEAs or something to cut down on viceroy corruption? Can I send in my government spies to check up on my viceroys? Wiretaps anyone? Propose a RICO act in the senate? I guess I'm asking for too much.

Well thanks for reading, I feel better now. :p

Chaos Effect

08-16-2004, 08:24 AM

A couple of military DEA's per system will do the trick. Seriously. Due to their outreach effect, they'll quell unrest due to your taxes being a bit to high. Take 2 or 3 of the biggest planets in each system and put 1 on each of em.

I need a button to fire the current viceroy
There is; the Econ AI checkbox. Uncheck it and Roy will never mess with your taxes, queues or spending sliders again. And your DEA's and DEA upgrades will still be built. It requires a carefull watch over your planet's spending though, so they don't bankrupt themselves.

Caboose

08-16-2004, 10:02 PM

Is there any way to controll which ships get sent on antaran expeditions? I have specially designed research ships but the AI sends all my Recon ships

Strifeguard

08-16-2004, 10:51 PM

The AI will, unfortunately, select a "Recon" force to go on Antaran expeditions. As a result, if you want to specially design Antaran-mission ships, you should make then Recon.

The AI will select Recon ships with research labs, if they're available, otherwise it will simply tend to select recon ships in general.

Note: The AI does do some kind of TF-forming, such that it will select different classes of ships, not just strictly Recon. However, it doesn't seem to follow the ordinary TF-forming rules. (i.e. you can form an armada-sized expedition without any picket or escort vessels)

Dark Duke

08-19-2004, 01:49 AM

To Eastwind:

I have experienced the problem with finding my planets producing way too much Food/Minerals later in the game as well in my earlier games.

I would like to share what I do to avoid (well reduce) this :

(Disclaimer: The advice given here is based on the hunches of a complete NOOB, so try it at your own risk.)

1) read the strategy forum's thread about regional Zoning - boy did this one help me understand devplans. A lot of the Roy's picking too many food/mining deas seems to be caused by him thinking he needs more of the resources early on. unfortunately he cannot replace for Industry/Research later. One fully upgraded food dea will suffice, but Roy does not get it when he does not know the upgrade is being researched and builds another one, hence the problem....

2) (Warning Micro required. Skip this paragraph if you hate micro.)

When I get a new planet, I just decide what I want from them: Large One-Industry, Rich-mining, Fertile-Food, Useless-Research,etc...
Then I place the DEA's myself, all of them, plan the planet through, including Government, military and recreation where you want'em. Set dev plans to decide what gets upgraded (not built !) first, then leave the thing alone. I find, that I only have to revisit them to manage the build ques, the rest works perfectly. I have very good experience doing this. Since I adopted this strategy, my planets are much better and need less attention.

try it if you are the person to do this.

Hope this helps.....

Now my question - just to show what a NOOB I am :D - in all my games, 12 or so, I never figured out how to lock a Build Qeue. Can anyone please tell me how to do that ? (It would mean a lot less revisiting stupid industry planets cranking out the wrong things)

Thanks in advance to anyone taking the mercy to reply....

eastwind

08-19-2004, 06:06 AM

i used a dev plan that worked well in the early game, and at some point I hit a clear inflection point. I dont remember the turn number, but all of a sudden I got some resource-multiplying techs and my worries about red numbers were over. At that point I adjusted the dev plan, as recommended in the thread where I read about it, (Da Blade's I think), to deemphasize mining and farming. But I let that second plan sit for far too long, and should have updated it long ago, so now I have too much mining and farming. Oh well. I've taken the advice above and decided to just play this game out without trying to spend hours rezoning. Next time I'll know to cut back the mining and farming a second time. I was leery of doing that in this game because I had read in some thread that there were later-game techs that caused demand for bio and minerals to spike up, and I wanted to be ready. But I've not seen them, although I'm at tech level 35. Of course it could be beyond that somewhere, another reason to just ride the surplus.

To lock a build queue you have to open the build queue and click on the lock icon to the left of "current build order". To unlock click again. Locked build queues are displayed in the all-planets list with blue text when the right column is showing build queue. Its the thing being built that's in the blue text, not anything else.

Be advised that locked queues automatically loop. That is, if you lock it and queue a destroyer and a frigate you will get destroyers and frigates built in alternation forever. Its hard to get it stopped, I usually have to queue one of the build-once things so the overrun doesn't start another ship beyond the one I wanted. But it does keep the AI from building things you dont need. The other technique for getting it to stop is to obsolete what's being built; then it doesn't requeue the ship when its built, the queue just empties out.

Chaos Effect

08-19-2004, 09:13 AM

The other technique for getting it to stop is to obsolete what's being built

There's 2 more. There a "Clear Queued" button in the shipyard screen in the Obsolete tab. The button is way over on the upper right of the screen about 4/5ths of the way up. If you click this button, all ships of the selected design that ARE NOT UNDER PRODUCTION will be removed from every queue. If you hold shift+click, ALL ships of the selected design will be removed from the queues. This is very helpful for thos times when you design a starship and accidently make it an orbital, or design a PD ship as an IF... We'll just pretend that that doesn't happen.... :confused: :sour:

I usually have to queue one of the build-once things so the overrun doesn't start another ship beyond the one I wanted.

I used to do tis too, but now I just delete em. Way I figure is, if I've got a brand-spanking-new design that'll whoop the snot out of my old design, why do I want to wait to start building em? It won't hurt to throw some new designs in an armada with some old. Actually, it may increase the the survivability of the TF.

Chaos

Dark Duke

08-19-2004, 10:27 PM

Another jigsaw piece added to the Puzzle that is MOO3, thanks to you guys.

I guess I will have to revisit my plantes one by one again ( I always do that anyways occasionally and yes - it does make that turn a long one...) and force some of the best industry worlds to crank out my prefered big guns exclusively.

The great thing now is, that I can force planets to build x5 and x10 items even without revisiting. I have Roy flogged regularly, so he now really builds the ships and guns (really, no joke), but Battleoids x10 function was not in his planet ruling manual -sigh-

Now I can lock Titan x5, Battleoid x10 and never look again until redesign - cower in fear, my enemies

Thanks again this will help ! (and hurt the others, Muahahahaa)

eastwind

08-22-2004, 03:32 AM

Q: In the tech matrix, some of the researched techs have red test-tube symbols in the corner. What does that mean?

Thanks again and again.

Edit: and another one while I'm asking questions....

How many Gm's on a side are the squares in the space combat grid?
(I'm trying to figure whether PD LFG's will reach enemy fighters harrasing adjacent TF's)

Chaos Effect

08-22-2004, 01:15 PM

Techs with the red testtubes mean that they have a second prerequisite. Take Battlecruiser. You need to research both Physical Sciences and Math(I think) to a certain level before you can begin researching the tech.

The squares are 3400 GM.

Chaos

eastwind

08-24-2004, 01:16 AM

Thanks, Chaos, I searched all over and couldn't find that answer. Too many hits on test-tubes and on red that weren't talking about red test-tubes.

I've got another question, this one about tax rates. I was confused for a long time because I thought the system taxes plus the empire taxes were all the taxes, and should add up to be equal to the taxes listed on the planetary page. But last night I finally realized System Taxes weren't the same as Planetary taxes and its the sum of all three that is the total. I think. And supposedly since I'm in a Monarchy my peeps will tolerate up to 37% total taxes. Well after adjusting the sliders twice, everyone is complaining.

I was at 7% System and 5% empire, and I dropped it to 5% each. Then the next turn or so I changed it to 5% System and 7% Empire. I've got a bunch of planets complaining about taxes, even ones with Planetary taxes at 24%. My math says 25% should be ok, and here they're complaining about not only 25% but 24% also. What gives? Is there some automatic but transitory unrest injected into the system whenever you raise taxes, even if its below your maximum? Or is it perhaps 35% for me in spite of being a Monarchy? Its not all my planets complaining, just a couple dozen, so I guess I just have to bump the complaining ones down to 20% or so and let Roy raise it back after a few turns to what he knows is ok.

But am I understanding all this right? Thanks for reading!

Edit: This game is soooo involved, I have a never-ending stream of questions: Does the multifire that you get with PD stack with the multifire you get with LFG? And is there any point in it since the light mount lfg is probably overwhelming the missles without the *=3 from PD?

Chaos Effect

08-24-2004, 08:39 AM

The PD mount is borken. Still. :weird: My advice is to just use light mounts for your PD porposes.

Are you absolutely postitive that your planets are in unrest because of taxes? While your system+empire taxes are high compared to what I usually use, your totals should still work allright. You could try knocking down your empire tax by a percent or two. But I still stand by my military DEA's. A couple per system is usually enough to quell unrest, unless you have three or four large(size 9+) planets. In which case, you probably want about 4 mil DEA's. For my own games, tax-wise, I usually have my system tax set at 3% and my empire tax set at 2%.

My observations during the game from turn ~200 on is that empire rersearch grants do not really help out my research at all. And I rarely have problems with unrest, so I don't spend much there either. And from that point on, I don't usually have too many new colonies(newly colonized) so grants to planets is not a big demand either. I usually spend nearly all my empire tax on military grants.

And make sure that the planet with the system seat is your best industry or research planets for the system, to make full use of your system tax.

Chaos

eastwind

08-24-2004, 11:34 PM

Originally posted by Chaos Effect
The PD mount is borken. Still. :weird: My advice is to just use light mounts for your PD porposes.

Oh nuts. I first read it was broken, so up to turn 250 or so I never used it, then I thought I read it was fixed, so all of my titan class ships are using PD Hard Beams, that is until I finally stole LFG's.

Are you absolutely postitive that your planets are in unrest because of taxes?

Yes, it said "HighTax", so in the couple of turns I've played since that post I went through and lowered the planetary rate on the complaining planets to 20% and they mostly went content the very next turn. The one's that still weren't content were listing "0.0 unrest over X regions" with unrest level 1, and those went content the following turn. Latest turn only 11 of 514 planets have any unrest at all, and 10 of them are in the "0.0 unrest over X regions" with nothing specific listed state.

I have a fair amount of military DEAs, but I haven't micro managed the DEA placement so I can't say how many. I have hand placed a number of mil DEAs, but its been hit or miss. I've run nearly the whole game on oppressometer 7, so I need them. None of my dev plans lines have Military in them.

And make sure that the planet with the system seat is your best industry or research planets for the system, to make full use of your system tax.

Well, since I haven't done this and don't really want to go through 100+ systems blowing up marble-columned buildings I think I'll just lower the system tax percentage. Are there diseconomies built into the system that make imperial taxation & spending less efficient than system or planetary taxation? If I were building a game I'd put a tax on the tax... 60% of revenues at the imperial level would go to fraud waste and abuse and only 40 to imperial progroms, modified by governement type. But I have no idea if they did this in MOO3.

Well thanks for the info, its been very helpful.

Bhruic

08-24-2004, 11:53 PM

Calling the PD mount 'broken' isn't strictly correct. Everything about it is perfectly functional. Most people consider it not to be as effective as the Light mount. I actually do use it on my PD ships (although I use Light mount as well) to give different firing ranges.

Bh

Chaos Effect

08-25-2004, 08:24 AM

IIRC, there is a small loss of funds due to "govenrmental waste" or somesuch for system/empire tax. If you keep tax on the planet it is generated, there is no loss.

Calling the PD mount 'broken' isn't strictly correct. Everything about it is perfectly functional. Most people consider it not to be as effective as the Light mount.

Hunh? I could swear reading that PD mounts were still broken in 1.2.5, however it is possible that people were having problem with them not firing, rather than the multifire not working. My bad, sorry.

Chaos

Bard of Prey

08-26-2004, 06:09 PM

About taxes: Your chosen government gives 3 separate thresholds for how high your tax rates can be... Total Tax Percent, Empire Percent and System Percent. They're all listed for each government in GovernModifiers.txt.

Essentially, going above any of these thresholds will generate unrest... so, for an unmodded Monarchy, you would have to keep your Empire Tax below 31%, your System tax below 16%, AND the total of these two, plus the Planetary Tax, below 37%, to avoid unrest. I don't recall off-hand whether you take unrest at or above these thresholds though...

Of course, the numbers you gave should still have been ok, so it's possible that there's something else at work here. The most likely possibility IMHO is that some other unrest factor is being incorrectly reported as 'High Tax'. Another possibility is that you're using a mod that changes GovernModifiers.txt, but doesn't update the info in the encyclopedia...

About the PD mount: Another reason some people consider it 'broken' is that Multifire doesn't work the most people think it should (i.e., all shots strike the same target, not multiple targets). This makes the PD mount of considerably less use than it would first appear.

[Edit: I forgot to mention, there is a 5% loss to inefficiency on Imperial taxes at least. I can't recall if it's applied when the money is taxed, when it's spent, or both. I'm also not 100% sure if it applies to system taxes, but I don't think so.

Personally, I never use system taxes, as they're not reported properly, and they can't be set per-system, which means systems without a System Seat, or where the other planets need the money more than the System Seat does, lose out in a pretty big way.

I also find it rare that I want to specifically penalize developing worlds in favour of developed worlds... it seems contrary to the purpose of the grant system, and therefore counter-productive. OTOH, an interesting approach for mid- or late-game might be to eliminate Empire taxes altogether in favour of System taxes... as this would shift the balance away from planet development, and into full-scale ship-production.]

eastwind

08-26-2004, 11:52 PM

Thanks Bard of Prey!

I am playing with a couple mods, so I checked my GameDataSets\Classic_01\GameData\Common\Spreadsheets folder and there was no GovernModifiers.txt there. I extracted the one inside GameDataSets\Classic_01\GameData\Common\Spreadsheets.mob and checked it and it shows 37/31/16, so I guess those should be the percentages that I'm playing with. I haven't changed anything related to mods since I started the game, and I don't think any of them should have affected this, but I decided to check anyway. I think perhaps its a >= test, and/or perhaps some rounding errors between the way Roy calculates it and the way the game applies the unrest, since I seem to get just a few planets a turn now, and when I bump their tax percent down they stop complaining.

I think before (when I got 100 planets complaining on one turn) what I did was bump the empire taxes down for a turn, then back up. In the meantime all the planet Roy's adjusted their planetary percentages up to take advantage of the imperial reduction, and then got caught on the following turn when I raised it again. Memo to emperor: if it aint broke, don't futz with it.

I was aware that multifire shots were always directed at the same target, I accept that as WAD (working as designed), not broken. My latest ship designs use 1/3 PD Hard Beams with all the trimmings, 1/3 standard LFGs and 1/3 light mount LFGs. (Thats in order of decreasing range). The PD Hard Beams have enough range for the leftmost or rightmost TF to support the middle TF when I attack with 10 TFs (I watch and the AI sets up in 2 rows of 5 TFs), so I like having them even if they are not as good in the damage/size department as the LFGs. My general space battle strategy is sit back and watch the missles and fighters destroy everything, so the TFs stay together and I dont need longer range anti-incoming fire or anti-ship short-range weapons. If the AI ever puts together a pile of LR armadas and charges me I'm going to get toasted, but so far he prefers to run or die without causing any casualties on my side :egrin:

eastwind

09-05-2004, 06:21 AM

Does anyone know the workaround to the stuck tech problem? I've been trying setting research on econ to 100%, making sure my empire is running a surplus, and setting the addtional spending on research to zero (and combinations of the above), and I still can't seem to break the logjam. I've been writing down the turns remaining for the current research items for 8 turns now, here's what I'm seeing:

turns remaining as time goes by ->
E40 Tachyon Beam 1 3 2 1 1 1 1 1
P40/M37 Behemouth 7 6 9 8 7 6 7 6
E39 Cont. Megabolt 5 4 3 2 7 6 4 3
E39 Env. Megabolt 2 1
E39 Fighter Disruptor 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1
E40 Trilithium Crystals 3 2
P38 Imp. Gauss C. 10 9 8 7 6 5 3 11
P40 Adamantum 10 9 8 7 6 5 3 11
P39/M36 Helio Reg. 3 2 4 3 4 3 4 3
P40 Space Dock 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1
E38 Imp. Phaser 1 4 3 2 1 1 1 1
E39 AF Disruptor 9 8 7 8 7 8 6 8
E39 AP Disruptor 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1
P40 Concussion RS 4 5
P39 Ultra Heavy Mt. 2 1 1 1 1 0
P39 Ultra Spinal Mt. 2 1
P39 Xintium 8 7 6 8 7 6 7 6

In these 8 turns the only tech I got was Ultra Hvy Mt (on the turn with the 0 for it). I wasn't at 100% on econ the whole time, for a couple turns I researched energy & physics because I thought maybe getting those up another level would free the stuck techs. Those were the only techs that advanced in these 8 turns iirc.
My techs are at levels:
econ 41
math 38
energy 40
bio 41
phys 40
soc 40

Can someone tell from the above which tech is the "stuck" tech? Seems like a bunch are stuck to me. I've not gotten any event messages about research setbacks, murdered researchers or any such stuff, the techs just silently go backwards.

:(

Chaos Effect

09-05-2004, 11:07 AM

We at the UOM are currently testing a data fix that works in conjunction with Bhruic's Patcher. If you can hold out for about 2 weeks, it should be available for release and will completely removed stuck techs from the game. Bhruic's patch for the stuck tech bug is currently available, but you stilll MAY experience stuck tech at level 50. Get his patcher here: http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=383367

I reccomend that you d/l all of his patches and then you can pick and choose which ones you want to install through the Patcher.

Chaos

eastwind

09-05-2004, 06:29 PM

Oh!

I have had the patcher, and had downloaded the latest fixes before I started this game ... back on July 6. I see Bhuric's produced two stuck-tech relevant patches since then! I applied them and tried my saved game and while the previous overflows have caused the turns-remaining to get wrapped, I guess from here on they wont wrap any more and I'll eventually get all those techs.

But it looks like I'm going to have to wait a loooong time for some of them -- a couple are due in 110 turns. Still, I'm sure that's because the saved game was already screwed up by the lack of the patch, and that if I rolled my game back to before I got tech level 38 I could avoid the problem entirely. I sure wish I'd been monitoring Bhuric's patcher thread....

Thanks very much Bhuric and Chaos!

Aeaea

09-09-2004, 06:30 PM

Hello everyone!

I just finished reading this entire thread and what a wealth of information it is! Thanks to all for the patience you've given us noobs. I had been reading many of the other stickied threads and decided to work through this one before I really started to play in earnest. Now I'm ready.

I have one topic that I haven't seen discussed very thoroughly -- which means there is either nothing to discuss or I haven't seen/found the definitive thread yet.

Population.... how can I maximize growth?

Example, I find a sweet-spot world early in the game and want to make that population grow like wildfire. What suggestions do you have? Alternatively, I'm in a relatively empty region of the galaxy and can colonize like mad without fear of conflict... so how to I maximize the population growth on my worlds?

Bard of Prey

09-09-2004, 06:48 PM

Originally posted by Aeaea
Population.... how can I maximize growth?

Possibly the reason you haven't seen this discussed too much is that there's not really much you can do, as a player, to influence population growth.

There are a few obvious things... choose a race with a natural bonus (Insectoids generally being the best for this); colonize larger planets (which grow faster naturally); colonize better planets (by hab rating); make sure your people are well-fed and happy; there may be certain government choices with bonuses or penalties to population growth (there are in my mod, I can't remember if there are in the unmodded game or not); keep people migrating from high-pop worlds to lower-pop worlds; likely a couple that I'm forgetting...

That may sound like a lot, but it doesn't really amount to a great deal of control on your part... just some general strategies to keep in mind. To enhance growth on a particular planet, the best thing is to set a migration target there.

From a modding point of view, there are any number of things you can do, depending on exactly the effect you would like...

Aeaea

09-10-2004, 05:35 PM

Thanks Bard...

So no luck with pleasure worlds (all Recreation DEAs and no taxes) or such things... too bad. [grin]

How about highly populated planets? Does population grow in percent like it says on the regional data views, so a planet with a large population will grow (in numbers) faster than a low population planet (assuming regional growth, unrest, and other such factors are the same)?

In the latest game I'm playing (and replaying and replaying and ...), I can colonize like mad with outposts and turn on migration to fill 'em up. The trouble is that this drains away excess population from my more populous worlds causing them to grow less quickly. For example, in my Klackon game I have 29 colonized worlds at turn 40 with the highest planet population (my homeworld) at only 13.

If instead I wait on migration or limit it to just a few worlds until those planets are at 20+ population, would I be in a better position to generate population quickly?

---
Another little question: Occasionally I get a congratulatory message or personal praise on the diplomacy screen from one of the races I'm in contact with. Is there a way I can do the same to one or more of them to help improve relations? If it's possible, I can't figure out how to do it.

Bard of Prey

09-10-2004, 06:01 PM

Originally posted by Aeaea
Thanks Bard...

So no luck with pleasure worlds (all Recreation DEAs and no taxes) or such things... too bad. [grin]

Low taxes will help to the extent that it will make people slightly less likely to migrate off that planet, but that's about it. Similarly, unrest reduction is only useful if you would otherwise have unrest... there's no effect from excess bonuses.

How about highly populated planets? Does population grow in percent like it says on the regional data views, so a planet with a large population will grow (in numbers) faster than a low population planet (assuming regional growth, unrest, and other such factors are the same)?

Well... there are a couple of things. For one thing, Max Population plays a large role... population will grow faster on larger planets than smaller ones.

In a similar vein, population growth slows down as the planet becomes 'full', which is why you actually will often get more total pop growth for your empire by shuttling people from more-populated worlds (percentage-wise) to less-populated worlds. There's more 'bang for the buck' on the underpopulated worlds.

If instead I wait on migration or limit it to just a few worlds until those planets are at 20+ population, would I be in a better position to generate population quickly?

It depends whether you're interested in the highest raw population growth for the entire empire (in which case what I said above should apply), or in gettting a particular planet to a certain level of productivity as soon as possible. In the latter case, you would want to be more selective, possibly setting migration targets at only one or two planets at a time.

Another little question: Occasionally I get a congratulatory message or personal praise on the diplomacy screen from one of the races I'm in contact with. Is there a way I can do the same to one or more of them to help improve relations? If it's possible, I can't figure out how to do it.

Not really. Those messages are more to indicate that relations have improved, not so much a cause of the improvement itself.

The closest you could come would be to offer a Gift... which, IIRC, would have to be something pretty substantial, like new tech or a planet (i.e., no cash bribes).

severian1268

09-11-2004, 01:57 AM

Ok... my head is going to explode... I just spent 8 hours reading information on mods, buiding, etc. etc. etc.

One question that I have at the moment -- mainly because it is driving me crazy in my current game -- how do you "lock" the build queues??? Bless all of you for the gracious manor in which you respond to some of what are some pretty simple questions -- but there are times when you blow by some of the basic stuf in your posts -- i.e. to stop the building of all those units... just lock the build queue....

Now, I purchased the game as a download from Gamespy and didn't receive the FM so I could RTFM... nor did I receive any of the music or anything with the download.... So Please... explain how you lock the build queue.

Not sure what version I have... I assume it is 1.25 since I tried to patch to 1.25 and it said my current version would not allow it.

Thanks in advance
ExTrEmEly FRusCerATED

Bard of Prey

09-11-2004, 02:09 AM

I may have some bad news for you. I've heard a few times recently that people who purchased the game via download haven't been able to install the version 1.2.5 patch... and it was this patch that added the ability to lock build queues, IIRC.

In case I'm wrong, you should look for a tiny symbol of a padlock... to the upper right of the slider, again... IIRC.

In case my first theory is correct, the only thing I can suggest is a polite but pointed e-mail to Atari technical support... but don't hold your breath... ;)

eastwind

09-11-2004, 02:28 AM

Actually, if you don't have the manual you're not missing much. Although its 140+ pages, most of it is not helpful (in my non-humble opinion). The manual is very long on the obvious and short on the significant. Here's an excerpt to make my point:

The Main Menu

The Main Menu allows you to begin new games, load saved games, start a multiplayer game, adjust game options, view credits and quit when you've had enough. To navigate your way around the Main Menu simply point the mouse pointer to the option you want (it will highlight) and left-click to select it.

New Game

Begins a new game and leads you through the Race Selection and Galactic Set-up screens.

Load Game
...

Seems like they paid the writers by the page. Some things are in the manual several times (in different places). But the really crucial stuff was left out (of course, so the strategy-guide people would get their chance to add something). For example, while the manual tells you that you can change government types during the game, and the race customization dialog indicates that the governments are grouped into categories, nowhere does it tell you that the category you start with is the category you'll be stuck in for the whole game -- if you start out in Despotism you'll never get to Unification. (Or, perhaps I'm wrong and there's some trick to get you to Unification, other than paying the race points, one that isn't documented and I haven't found out about).

EugeneStyles

09-11-2004, 10:14 AM

For example, while the manual tells you that you can change government types during the game, and the race customization dialog indicates that the governments are grouped into categories, nowhere does it tell you that the category you start with is the category you'll be stuck in for the whole game -- if you start out in Despotism you'll never get to Unification.

It also doesn't tell you that the race you start with is the the race you are stuck with (at least as your main race) for the whole game.

Chaos Effect

09-11-2004, 01:20 PM

Ok, here's how to solve your problems...

1. Open your window
2. Tear out the screening
3. Remove the MOO3 Manual from the bottom drawer of your desk
4. Wing it out the window screaming "Take THAT, POS sorry excuse for a manual!"

Problem solved! There is more backstory than info in that thing... On the plus side, the story is actually pretty good :haha:

Now read through the start forum here, any thread that sounds like something you're looking for info on is a good start... as well as the stickied threads. And if you still can't find the answer to your question(s), then keep doing what you're doing and post your questions here! We're more than happy to answer them, if we can.

Chaos

severian1268

09-11-2004, 06:03 PM

ok... I have gathered that the manual is a POS... several times, so I will just live it at that.

S&M question (veg)

Since I acquired the game as a download from Gamespot... (realizing that they had nothing to do with the problems)... I would like to know how to get music into my game. I have seen the posts of "just run a music player in the background"... but does anyone have any info on how to put music into the game and where the files should go in dir tree? I know that I will have to convert the files into .aif format (already have the program), but if you can stear me in the right direction for the process for MOO3... this may even be the wrong forum (if so just let me know which one it should be posted in)

Chaos Effect

09-11-2004, 07:00 PM

Go check out this thread: http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=393785

and this thread: http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=395700

Not sure if it'll help or not though, but they're the only ones around one around. That I know of, anyway. :)

Chaos

Omena

09-11-2004, 07:18 PM

Well adding music is quite easy. Here's a list of some stuff that you will probably find useful.

\GameDataSets\Classic_01\GameData\Common\spreadsheets.mob - open and extract Music.txt into the Spreadsheets folder. This file lets you define the music files you want to use.

\GameDataSets\Classic_01\GameAssets\Common\Music - location for the music folders. They are as follows:
\UI - background music (filenames as specified in the Music.txt)
\antarans - antaran sounds
\Cybernetic - well you get the picture..
\Etherean
\Geodic
\Harvesters
\Humanoid
\Ichthytosian
\Insectoid
\Saurian

Now then if you want to have all sounds such as the buildup and conflict sounds you should put them into the species directory. That is Saurian buildup sounds go to \Saurian etc.

Some sounds must have a certain filename to work , they are:
Buildup(species number)_(Sound number) - sound for the combat scheluder.
Conflict(species number)_(Sound number) - tactical combat background music.
Defeat(species number)_(Sound number) - music after losing a battle.
Victory(species number)_(Sound number) - music after winning a battle.
Diplomatic(species number)(race number)_(sound number) - music for diplomacy.

For sound number you can always just put 1. As for the two other number a have a table for you to use (species number and then race number).
00 = Human
01 = Evon
02 = Psilon
10 = Imsaeis
11 = Eoladi
20 = Silicoid
30 = Meklar
31 = Cynoid
40 = Trilarian
41 = Nommo
50 = Ithkul
60 = Klackon
61 = Tachidi
70 = Sakkra
71 = Raas
72 = Grendarl
190 = Antaran

Hope this helps.

severian1268

09-12-2004, 12:55 AM

That is very helpful (I think)... I will have to review it and work with it when I am not so tired and a little more sobre.

... but that is definitely more than what I have seen previously on this subject. I will work with it and see what I can do.

Thanks

DeckPrism

09-12-2004, 02:18 AM

Originally posted by eastwind
Actually, if you don't have the manual you're not missing much. Although its 140+ pages, most of it is not helpful (in my non-humble opinion). The manual is very long on the obvious and short on the significant. Here's an excerpt to make my point:

...

Seems like they paid the writers by the page. Some things are in the manual several times (in different places). But the really crucial stuff was left out (of course, so the strategy-guide people would get their chance to add something). For example, while the manual tells you that you can change government types during the game, and the race customization dialog indicates that the governments are grouped into categories, nowhere does it tell you that the category you start with is the category you'll be stuck in for the whole game -- if you start out in Despotism you'll never get to Unification. (Or, perhaps I'm wrong and there's some trick to get you to Unification, other than paying the race points, one that isn't documented and I haven't found out about).

THE problem with the manual was that it was finished before the game was. Part of that was that they kept extending the release date on the game, which came partly because of bugs BTs were finding and a few suggestion they made that did get coded. But even with all of the extras at the end, the manual and the strat guide were not "deep". Who could play a game to write the manual? I do mean how could a game even get played. I got the manual months before we were done testing the game. It had to be done early enough to ship with the game at one of the earlier release dates. The manual thus ened up being a goal that was designed to at one point and abandoned at other points. Unfortunately, to do things right you just have to allow plenty of testing after code is done, allow time for fixes and more testing, and allow even more time after that for writing the manual. You even need time for reflection and to go away and come back fresh to see with renewed eyes. But real life, particularly as messed up as MOO3's development was, does not allow you the luxury of doing what you ought to do. So it filled a slot, but not as well as anyone would like.

eastwind

09-12-2004, 02:41 AM

I'll say this to balance my earlier negative post:

Clearly someone put a lot of effort into the manual. They did not stint on the length, the cover or the binding. Its a real hardcopy manual, not just included on the CD as a pdf ala Encore's Patrician III release. When you shake the box at the store you can tell you're getting something more than a CD in a paper sleeve and 8 fluid ounces of air. And there's more backstory in it than I had the patience to read. The manual provides a nice intro to the information available here on the forum :-)

Bard of Prey

09-12-2004, 03:33 AM

Originally posted by eastwind
And there's more backstory in it than I had the patience to read.

Read it sometime. It's the only worthwhile excuse for the otherwise senseless killing of all those trees, IMO.

severian1268

09-12-2004, 01:07 PM

Originally posted by Chaos Effect
Go check out this thread: http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=393785

and this thread: http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=395700

I found that one... and I think your right about being the only one around... I searched and read for several hours the other day. The explanation I received from Omena was the first real explanation of "HOW TO". Thanks Omena -- I will be working on it today.

Aeaea

09-15-2004, 05:27 PM

As an industrious but imitative race of poorly researching & not very diplomatic Klackon, we've done our due diligence and achieved tech-level parity or superiority with the other races in our galaxy. Our empire is far larger that any other race's yet, lack of diplomatic talents aside, none of the fools are willing to trade techs with us no matter how outrageous our offers. Not only that, but they're insolent when they refuse....

Time to knock the chip off their shoulders (or whatever suffices for shoulders).

We're thinking of acquisition, i.e., no glassing, but just invasion and assimilation -- one empire at a time. This has worked well with the Rocks who attacked us because of some bizarre racial genetic predjudice, and who are now contented members of our benificent hive-mind.

Our question is what assimilation strategies seem to work best? We'd like to move quickly because our galaxy is running out of unclaimed real estate, and many races, we fear, may see our actions against one of them as a precursor to our future actions against the rest....

Our current plan is to darken the skies of a system's planets with our armadas and sweep them clean of defenses. Following this would come our troopships with armies to brush aside the hapless ground defenders and begin the indoctrination of their populations into our fold. Through these actions we may occasionally learn the secrets of new technologies which have escaped our scientists. As these gound invasions progress in one system, our assualt force would move on to prepare the next.

Does this work in practice? Can it move along quickly, or will it bog down? We suppose grabbing and defending choke points immediately and limiting activities within easily controllable regions would be instrumental in minimizing interference, but in practice (even with most targets that appear to be very poorly defended) are we being naive and would we likely be forced to spread our forces too thin? Is rapid assimilation better than slow and methodical? What do we need to do to minimize the chances that the rest of the galaxy unites against us?

We are sure there are many assimilation strateges and that much is dependent upon the star lanes and the relative strengths of our neighbors, yet we eagerly await any thoughts or hard-learned lessons you've gained in your own experiences.

Chaos Effect

09-15-2004, 06:51 PM

"Assimilation" really depends on how the game unfolds, at least for me. If I have a multi-system border(ie, a border with several different chokepoints) with a single empire, then I will mobilize fleets at each system on that border. I like to invade in the following fashion. I mobilize 2 fleets per system, each consisting of 8 armadas of warships. The lead fleet also gets 2 Transport TF's with armies of the best available units. I send the lead fleet(8 warship TF's + 2 transport TF's) to the enemy system, leaving 8 warship TF's to guard my system(I'm incredibly paranoid of having the AI skip past my advance fleet and begin glassing my planets). On the first planet I take, a mob center in immediatly put under cunstruction. Every turn, I send 2 more Transport TF's to the enemy system, taking one colony at a time. So, if I have a border with an empire with 4 jumplanes connecting us, I'll always have AT LEAST 8 fleets mobilized. This means that I'll have 64 armadas of warships on hand for this offensive(8 fleets @ 8 armadas each = 64 armadas). Obviously, this is later in the game when I have a huge surplus of ships.

Earlier in the game, when it's a challenge to field even 5 armadas I'll simply proceed down a chain of systems until I reach a system with multiple jumplanes, then I stop after that system is taken. Once I have enough ships to hold that system, I'll either continue on from there, or I'll start a new offensive somewhere else.

My advice to you is this:
1. If you want to begin a multi-front offensive, make sure that your planets are up to the task of continually replacing lost ships.
2. Make sure that you have planets producing enough troops to conquer several planets per turn. This could mean fielding 6-12 armies per turn mid/late game.(from turn 200 on)
3. Pick you victim(s) well/Don't bite off more than you can chew! Make sure you know your (future) enemies strength.
4. If you fing that you are loosing more ships than you can replace, don't be afraid to withdraw your ships to a strategic system you feel you can easily defend. Don't think of it as running away, think of it as a strategic withdrawl. :)
5. Expect to spend a LOT of time per turn. Figure at least an hour to an hour and a half with 5-10 fronts due to all the fighting.
6. Make sure you know what ships are where and which planet in each system you want to invade. Write them down if you have to. Taking out the enemies Mob Center or main Idustrial planet first in each system is a severe blow to them and increases your might that much more.

Not sure if I'm forgetting anything... I don't think so. If there are any paragraphs you can't decipher let me know. I may be able to conjure up a better written explanation. :) And don't be afraid to ask if you still have questions!

Chaos

Bard of Prey

09-15-2004, 06:57 PM

Originally posted by Aeaea
Does this work in practice? Can it move along quickly, or will it bog down?

Yes, it can... and yes, it can. ;)

Mostly it depends on how well-prepared you are going in (plenty of TFs of war ships, plenty of extra transports, plenty of troops, hopefully a mob centre close to the action, etc.). Naturally, it also depends on how tough the opposition is.

For what you describe to work best, you need to have pretty much overwhelming force, but the AI still isn't all that bright, and can't fight a mobile war, so really good planning can carry you through if you only have a moderate advantage. If your opponent is similar to (or stronger than) you, start small... take one system at a time and hold it until it can defend itself and your invasion force is at full strength again... then take another one. Wash, rinse and repeat.

We suppose grabbing and defending choke points immediately and limiting activities within easily controllable regions would be instrumental in minimizing interference, but in practice (even with most targets that appear to be very poorly defended) are we being naive and would we likely be forced to spread our forces too thin? Is rapid assimilation better than slow and methodical?

As I mentioned above, all of this really depends on the balance of power between you and your chosen victim. Some people like to pick on weak opponents, and use a massive assault to cripple or eliminate them immediately. Others prefer to strike at their strongest opposition first, which calls for a more careful, methodical approach.

Which route you take is largely a matter of personal style... unless you're concerned about an impending loss (Senate or X), in which case you aim for whoever's going to beat you, and go for the throat. :D

What do we need to do to minimize the chances that the rest of the galaxy unites against us?

Check your Foreign Matrix (or whatever they call it... ;) ), and monitor the alliances of your preferred victim. Avoid starting multiple-front wars if you can (by picking first on races with no friends). In some cases, you may want to specifically target races that one or more other races dislike... for diplomatic purposes. If you have few diplomatic abilities, you may not have much luck directly breaking up alliances, so such indirect methods can help.

Some people feel there's a natural tendency for AI players to dislike anybody too powerful... if so, there's really very little you can do in the long run...

Bhruic

09-15-2004, 08:36 PM

Originally posted by Bard of Prey
Some people feel there's a natural tendency for AI players to dislike anybody too powerful... if so, there's really very little you can do in the long run...

I think I'd like to go on record as disagreeing with that claim. I think the conclusion is valid, but the premises are not.

I wanted to test the Allied Victory patch, so I set up a small galaxy with me playing Evon, and one other computer player (plus NO). The idea was to ally with the other computer player, wipe out the NO, and make sure it gave me the victory. To facilitate this, I modified the baserelations table, and set it to 150 (both ways) for Humanoids.

So I'm autorunning the game. Gets to turn 300. Turns out that the computer player was the Silicoid. At turn 300, I have 2 systems (left). They've got 30+, the NO still have Orion, and there are a bunch of 'empties' locked behind Guardians. I figure something must have gone wrong, so I checked some of the nearby systems. Yup, plenty of planets with 100% Evon population controlled by the Silicoid. Evidently we'd had some wars.

Now, with my 2 systems, I certainly couldn't claim to be 'too powerful'. The CB with the Silicoid was good, 160+ for us, 130+ for them. However, the CR was -200. Well, I can't ally with them with a CR of -200, so I manually changed it to 100. I got a trade agreement going. And 5 turns later, the CR was down far into the negatives again. Ok, this time I jacked it up to 180. 7 turns later it's back to -200.

At that point I just gave up, as it wasn't going to be a viable testbed. However, it did seem instructive from a relations point of view. My theory is that the AI has a massive desire to expand. As long as it can do so, it's reasonably content with other empires. However, once it gets 'blocked', its relations go downhill fast. Now, if its allied with one player, and there is another player it can reasonably expand into, it'll go that way. However, if you are large and powerful, then you likely have a lot of territory. The AIs all want it. So your relations tank, because they want to expand.

In my case, the only places the AI could expand were me, the Guardians and the NO. They were at war with the NO, you can't have relationships with the Guardians, and they'd obviously been expanding into me.

Unfortunately, todate, I haven't found what table would deal with their expansion priorities vis-a-vis relationships. If that could be lowered, we'd likely see less of the relationship souring that occurs in mid-late game.

Bh

Bard of Prey

09-15-2004, 08:59 PM

Originally posted by Bhruic
I think I'd like to go on record as disagreeing with that claim. I think the conclusion is valid, but the premises are not.

I like your theory better anyway. I've never been able to disprove it myself, but I've never liked the idea of a hardcoded 'gang-up-on-the-leader' effect. If there were one, I'd campaign to have it removed...

DeckPrism

09-15-2004, 10:10 PM

Originally posted by Bhruic
My theory is that the AI has a massive desire to expand. As long as it can do so, it's reasonably content with other empires. However, once it gets 'blocked', its relations go downhill fast. Now, if its allied with one player, and there is another player it can reasonably expand into, it'll go that way. However, if you are large and powerful, then you likely have a lot of territory. The AIs all want it. So your relations tank, because they want to expand.

Unfortunately, todate, I haven't found what table would deal with their expansion priorities vis-a-vis relationships. If that could be lowered, we'd likely see less of the relationship souring that occurs in mid-late game.

At one time there was talk, by Holsinger (sp) IIRC, about sticking in a timmer on relations such that playing a game was in effect a race against the clock before relations went down, and IIRC AIs got more bonuses. But it was probably just talk.

eastwind

09-15-2004, 10:58 PM

As a beginner I have only minor points, but since no one else made them...

When I attack a new system with several occupied planets (assuming all the same race), I attack the weakest one first. I initially had trouble controlling the selection of which planet was to be attacked. Further back in this thread is where I asked how to do it and got an answer. There's a tab at the bottom of the first combat screen which you can click on if you've selected 'watch' or 'manual' mode for that battle, then click on each planet in turn and see how many bases and orbitals it has. Since you'll fight all the system (and interstellar) ships no matter which planet you attack first, choosing a weak one lets you wipe out the system ships separate from the battles where you take out the planets with significant planetary defenses. This keeps your attrition down.

I don't like losing troop ships in combat, so I clear away the planetary defenses then send a troop ship so that when it arrives there's an automatic-victory fight and no risk to the troop ship. This slows down the advance but not by a lot if I plan well.

I ended up building a mobilization center in every system. It crossed my mind that this might be wasteful, but my innate paranoia immediately squelched that thought.

In choosing my victims I sort of let the victims choose themselves by attacking me....

I hope the following isn't considered a spoiler:

Keep in mind that once you take a system from an AI, its going to keep sending ships at that system to try to take it back forever, or until you take another of its systems. It seems to focus mainly on the last system you took from it.

Chaos Effect

09-16-2004, 12:06 AM

but my innate paranoia immediately squelched that thought.

In choosing my victims I sort of let the victims choose themselves by attacking me....

Hehehe... we're birds of a feather I guess... :)

Dark Duke

09-16-2004, 12:33 AM

Whether it is the AI's desire to expand or a timered or hardcoded programming does not matter much to me and I doubt it ,too. The reason why there is something like a "gang up on the leader" effect is because the leader would have the most space to expand into. The AI does not know you lead - it just knows that growing in your direction will give it a lot of room !

It would matter to people capable of changing such things by modding and other trickery beyond my abilities, but to me it is just a fact. There is not special programm, it is the basic AI: If it cannot grow it will go to war - hey, we would do the same if our empire was locked in, no ?

- I will grow (Galaxy domination is the way to win this game after
all !)
- Therefore the AI, who also grows will meet me. If we have no
other room, we will have to grow through the other, which both
the AI and I will do - Bingo, Combat
- Relationships help until we reach the point where we can get in
the way of each other. Secretly every AI and me are playing
Sole Survivour all the time, all the games ! The own desire to
win is higher than CR 200

(If the AI was not playing Sole Survivour all the time, it would need a different routine for being allied. Somehow I doubt the programmers made that effort...)

- Evidently there is not a "get the biggest" code, but it is just
always around the point where most empires get reasonably
big, that the AI turns on us players more often than the other
comps.

I would concede another thing though:

My theory is that this part, choosing us rather than the comps, may be the only programmed behaviour here. I would have made a slight predilection to go after the human player in favour of the other comps for two reasons myself: (If I could design games, that is !)

1) Humans are supposed to play better than AIs, so they will be stronger, so get'em first before it is too late !

2) If the AI turned on other comps first, I would fortify and wait it out. The moment two AIs start duking it out I would backstab the convenient one. Since I could be sure some of his forces are tied up, I must win given equal strength. This would be a nice exploit !

I do not think Diplomacy was designed to last. Anyone ever tried playing a Senate victory as long as possible - abstaining, or voting for the NO with the majority on the own side constantly, to see how relations develop ? - I guarantee they will come after anyone after a while !
This effect is obviously a letdown for Diplomacy-Savvy players. Since there is no allied victory (what a shame, too) QS never intended the Galactic relations to be at all peaceful !

Edit: There now IS an allied victory patch - check out Bhruic's thread ! You can patch the game for a victory if only you and your allies remain, counting as if it was sole survivour !

Since I suck at diplomacy in this game (Big Time !) I just kill'em all. This is fine with me. As the two above me mentioned, just let the AIs volunteer for Membership in my empire - they will !

Keep'em coming.....

Aeaea

09-16-2004, 05:24 PM

Thanks folks, your tips on assimilation are great!

Another question. I pour a lot of excess Empire money into research. Oftentimes I notice slider bars on some worlds set to red for research (I never touch the planetary research bars because I'm not sure how it affects other things going on within the planetary economy -- so I let Roy do it).

Is "red" an indication that I'm wasting too much money on research?

Is it (normally) better to hand-build more Research DEAs and/or adjust dev plans -- and then pour my excess AUs into Planetary grants, rather than using those AUs to overdrive the Research DEAs I already have? I'm not in a desperate Research race, I just would like to have some idea what a good rule of thumb for buy vs. build on research.

DeckPrism

09-16-2004, 05:45 PM

Eieio, ... wait a minute.... Aeaea, ;)

Money that goes to the empire has waste associated with it, 5%. So, it is better to let planets keep their money. To do this some people lower empire tax to 1% and system tax to 3%, then let roy adjust the planetary taxes up.

Now, if you still find a planet spending too much on research, you can make it build ships, or build more research DEAs there.

Aeaea

09-17-2004, 05:26 PM

I hear you DeckPrism, though don't the empire slider bars encourage the Roys to augment their effors in:
- infrastructure/planetary builds (from planetary grants)
- military builds (from miliary grants)
- research (from research grants)?

5% isn't much overhead to pay if research money gets automatically distributed to the best (?) planets -- definitely worth it when the alternative is for me to comb though all the planets I have looking for worthy candidates!

So (unless I am in error), if I set the empire research slider about 1/3 of the way, and find most planets with planetary research spending >0 have red slider bars, does that mean I should shift that money somewhere else and hand build Research DEAs -- or will the red bars incent Roy to build the Reseach DEAs himself (empty space and possibly dev plans permitting)?

DeckPrism

09-17-2004, 06:14 PM

I use planetary grants because they help to get colonies up and started. But, I dont use the other two very much prefering instead for the planets that make the money to spend the money (avoiding the 5% surcharge).

Alot depends on what you mean by 'best' planets. If your research is driven into the red, then those are not the best planets. Since the AI is the one who is misallocating your imperial funds, take the decision away from him. Instead do the 2 other things I suggested: build more research DEAs where you are in the red (so that the funding gets split among more scientist), or set that planet to building ships instead (thus drawing funds away from research to something you are not overdriving (wasting) as much on.

Ultimately this gets to a combination of managing your spending, DEAs, dev plans, and flexibility. I like mines in rich+ mountains, farms where they go best (fertile plains), a gov dea on large worlds, and otherwise a 50/50 mix of research and industry DEAs. This give me flex, and I think a good return on the DEAs.

You may not simply have enough research DEAs for the spending you are throwing that way. You could also try focusing your research on geting research improving tech, maybe. To build more research DEAs and improvements already researched, make research a priority in your dev plan, but also hand place a few. Roy won't really respond to just red bars.

Lennier

09-17-2004, 06:21 PM

Grants to planets go to planets' treasuries; Roy will spend the grant as he/she sees fit. Planetary grants go to the approximately 10 planets with the lowest development (notches on the ring in system and planetary views.)

The Empire research spending does not show up on the planetary screen(s); it is distributed "efficiently" (where it will least overdrive planetary research)when you hit the turn button.

The split between military/planetary/economic development/research bars is determined by a number of factors, including your Military Political Economic setting, your dev plans, and how developed a planet is.

Especially at lower MPE, Roy has a tendancy to really overdrive the scientific research. Overdriving does not give Roy an incentive to build industry or research DEAs; your regional zone plan + development plans give Roy incentives/disincentives to build research DEAs.

I tend to hand place a planets DEAs shortly after the first industry DEA is built.

Quinch

09-18-2004, 12:46 PM

EDIT: Talk about timing.... original post below.

Does that mean that it's optimal to allocate zero funds in the planetary economy {yes, I'm a chronic micomanager} and let the research funding be done exclusively from the imperial budget?

Regards,

Quinch

Can anyone tell me how *exactly* is the imperial budget {research, military, unrest and grants} distributed? For example, how does the 40% of the 8,000,000 AU I earned this turn translate into research points?

TIA,

Quinch

Lennier

09-20-2004, 12:38 PM

Originally posted by Quinch
Does that mean that it's optimal to allocate zero funds in the planetary economy {yes, I'm a chronic micomanager} and let the research funding be done exclusively from the imperial budget?Rember, you loose 5% of your funds as they make their way from all your planets to your imperal treasury and back to a specific planet. I guess "the most efficient" research spending system for a micromanager would be to ensure all their planets are overdriving to the same extent. Of course, that might cause inefficiencies in other areas (new planets spending money on research that should go to planetary development; established planets overdriving industry in the dark red but only overdriving research in the orange, etc.)

Dark Duke

09-22-2004, 12:28 AM

If you like micromanaging.....

(such as I do - out of paranoia and distrust in my Roys)

try this:
From the beginning, handplace your DEAs when a new planet comes online.
- Remeber to place your DEAs in a way fitting the regional zoning scheme, e.g. very specialized planets for "specialized" zoning
- If you want easier late game microing, add I, R and M to your planets name in the rename box for Industry, Research and Mining worlds (Doh !) I personally find this easier to find them later.

You have decent control about adjusting spending and overdriving this way.

Just beware two things:

It is not always easy to classify a planet, I have MI and RI around as well (Rich, size 12 shouyld be both Industry and Mining, especially if found early in the game when too much specialization can be tough)

It will tunr out to be a lot of work to micro through 200 planets, even the best 50 only. If you prefer perfection over suffering long turns, try this one game.

I once tried this approach to see how it worked (playing one ame the normal way to turn 300 than reloading tunr 50 and doing this. The result was to my liking....

Aeaea

09-23-2004, 02:46 PM

Thanks for your help on Research... I guess the best thing for me to do is to sift through my planets and rip out low performing Bio & Mining DEAs and build more Research DEAs. Hopefully I'll eventually see the planetary research bars at least turn yellow. I wonder if that will also improve the discrepancy between the Galaxy Screen indicator of the number of Research points gained this turn vs. the projected (hah!) points next turn?

Three other simple questions:

1) How does one scrap ships? I'm sure there is a way to do this, but I haven't stumbled on it yet. I want to get rid of old designs sitting around so they don't autobuild in new task forces. I had thought that Antaran expeditions would cull out the useless hulks, but no... the expeditions take many of my prime ships!

2) I've read so much on the forums, that I get confused sometimes as to what is real, what was speculation, what had originally been planned by the designers, and what has changed... it seemed to me I read that there was a way to upgrade ships as well... is that possible?

3) Is there a way to remove troops after I've used them to successfully invade a planet? I believe they are helpful for putting down unrest (correct?) but after awhile, it would be nice to move them on to their next adventure. I thought I read somewhere that this was possible, but I can't figure out how.

Thanks!

Lennier

09-23-2004, 04:50 PM

Originally posted by Aeaea
1) How does one scrap ships? I'm sure there is a way to do this, but I haven't stumbled on it yet. I want to get rid of old designs sitting around so they don't autobuild in new task forces. I had thought that Antaran expeditions would cull out the useless hulks, but no... the expeditions take many of my prime ships!Go to the shipyards screen and choose the fleets tab (not design tab). Select the Reserves box (not delay or the box for any deployed TF) to scrap starships. Select the design you want to scrap, and hit "scrap one" to scrap one of the design or "scrap all" to scrap all of that design. If you make a mistake, "cancel one" and "cancel all" will cancel the scrapping of one or all ships of the selected design.

To scrap system ships, you can select the box for the system ships in the system and do the same thing, or select and scrap them from the military tab in the planets screen.

2) I've read so much on the forums, that I get confused sometimes as to what is real, what was speculation, what had originally been planned by the designers, and what has changed... it seemed to me I read that there was a way to upgrade ships as well... is that possible?Not in MoO 3.

3) Is there a way to remove troops after I've used them to successfully invade a planet? I believe they are helpful for putting down unrest (correct?) but after awhile, it would be nice to move them on to their next adventure. I thought I read somewhere that this was possible, but I can't figure out how.In the planets screen of the planet where you have the formation, click the military tab. If there are ground troops on the planet, it normally defaults to the ground forces subtab, but you might have to select it manually yourself. Select the formation and then click the "disband" button. Your troops will spend about 5 turns in the delay box and then be put in the reserves to await their next adventure. Where they can travel all over the galaxy, meet interesting aliens, and kill them. ;)

Thanks! You're welcome.

Aeaea

09-27-2004, 02:17 PM

Great, thanks.... I knew I missed those things. And it seems like my old memories of MOO II are now mixing with the memories of recent stuff I've read on the MOO III forums as well... Oh well.

One more mechanics question. How do I build task forces with more than one army? The Deploy Ground Invasion task force screens only seem to let me build one army (or smaller) per task force. I'm assimilating worlds through invasions, and the AI is getting smarter and loading their worlds up with lots of troops. So I need multiple armies to take them. In addition, I have to keep a hefty sized rearguard force in place per system to ensure the occasional large enemy retaliatory strikes won't wipe out my transports -- thus the 10 TF limit forces me to somehow build bigger TFs or find a way to fill up larger troop ships.

There must be a way to do this, but I haven't figured out how. Any suggestions?

[sidenote] This exercise is lots of fun. I'm taking over system after system of huge enemy gas giant worlds each with twice the population of any of my Klackon worlds. Within a few turns these babies become some of my best industrial powerhouses! My fear is that this may not last because the enemy is 3 levels ahead of me in tech (and somehow accelerating even though his population and worldcount are decreasing). I really hate to glass such industrial gems, so I have to move fast before his tech superiority can stop me. ;-)

Oh, and while I'm thinking about it, is there any way to discover which enemy world per system holds the system seat of government (i.e., the one with the mob center)? Likewise, is it possible to determine the world or system holding his imperial seat of government?

Lennier

09-27-2004, 02:26 PM

Originally posted by Aeaea
One more mechanics question. How do I build task forces with more than one army? The Deploy Ground Invasion task force screens only seem to let me build one army (or smaller) per task force. I'm assimilating worlds through invasions, and the AI is getting smarter and loading their worlds up with lots of troops. So I need multiple armies to take them. In addition, I have to keep a hefty sized rearguard force in place per system to ensure the occasional large enemy retaliatory strikes won't wipe out my transports -- thus the 10 TF limit forces me to somehow build bigger TFs or find a way to fill up larger troop ships.

There must be a way to do this, but I haven't figured out how. Any suggestions?The correct answer is that there is not a way to do this. :cry: You might try brining two transport TFs to battle, or just keep landing armies on the same planet until you conquer it. Or land one army per planet in the system before dropping your second--this will keep the enemy from making your fleet defend a planet from their shoot-and-scoot. (In my experience, the transport TFs are a lot more vulnerable when defending a planet then when assaulting an enemy planet.)

Oh, and while I'm thinking about it, is there any way to discover which enemy world per system holds the system seat of government (i.e., the one with the mob center)? Likewise, is it possible to determine the world or system holding his imperial seat of government? There is no way to tell which planet holds the system seat (or imperial seat) of government with certainty. :sour: You can tell which system has the ISG in the "boarders" view of the galaxy map (hit the "b" key). ISG systems have two diamonds in the triangle portion of the mob-center flag.

severian1268

09-28-2004, 09:43 AM

I am new to the game, but between what I have read and experimented with, this is what has worked for me.

Build Cruisers (CC) or Battle Cruisers (BC) with 2-4 troop pods. I currently have a CC with 4 pods. As an added kicker, I have also built them with Heavy armor (there is no additional space taken for that), and included a little surprise punch by adding on missile racks. They are small 2 missile racks (x10) of nuclear warheads (because they are small). I can pack 1 Army of 30 units into 2 of these ships. Sometimes I have to have an additional standard troop ship or two if I am hauling armor or mobile.

I have succeeded at taking control of nearly fully populated planets with 4-5 Armada Fleets (2 IF, 2 Carrier, 1 LR) "::keep in mind that these are tailored ships - not the standard game models::" and then bringing in 3-5 squadrons of troops. I don't generally add extra ships into the configuration since they will be disbanded and put into the delay box when the troops land -- I would rather keep them available immediately when the word spreads back to the homeworld that I just robbed them of one of their gem planets and systems. You could just put them into a couple huge Armadas, but I find that even for the large worlds I don't need any more than 5-6 Armys. (Experienced troops) Its just a waste of the extra ships needed to run such large groups. You can get by with Squadrons and have your 10TF packed with only TT's. You could run 2 Armys in a Wave and only have to spare the 2 picket ships. Basically as it works Sqd=1Army; Wave=2Army; Armad=3Army. You can bring all of your armies in at once... I have landed as many as 6 Armies onto a planet for the full on invasion. I haven't tried any more than that as of yet. I will keep extra armies a turn behind just in case I need them. If I don't, I will use them to take the smaller/less developed planets.

If you time your arrival in the system right, you can bring in the gun ships a turn or two ahead of the transports to clear out the system space and planet defenses before moving the transports in. It will generally take them a couple turns to bring in a retaliatory strike force. It is up to you whether you want bombard the planet prior to landing the troops. I find that I capture advances, etc. if I don't destroy all the buildings... especially when they are 2 or more techs ahead of me (could just be coincidence though) If you have a two turn start in the system, you can set up a blocakade of the system until your hordes arrive.

I generally find that the the most developed planet - and the one with the most defenses - tends to be the system seat and MOB center.

If any of this is innacurate, I am sure the vets will recitfy the statements.

Aeaea

09-28-2004, 01:43 PM

Thanks Lennier! Are you still on a Mac? I am. If so, are there any Mac-only special capabilities in MOO III that you've discovered?

---

Severian, I like your logic, but I've been using older ships to mop up and assimilate worlds once I break the back of an enemy's empire (so I need more of them to handle higher tech retaliations and planetary defenses). It takes a loooong time to assimilate a sytem of 5+ worlds since I have to invade one world at a time and shuttle in TFs of troopships each carrying one army every turn or so. Since I seem to be at war with everyone because I own about a third of the galaxy, which as Bhruic points out leads to envy among the other empires that want to expand, I need my best ships to manage the choke points.

Anyway, it seems like you found a way to pack more than one army per task force. How did you do this?

You could run 2 Armys in a Wave and only have to spare the 2 picket ships. Basically as it works Sqd=1Army; Wave=2Army; Armad=3Army.

Lennier

09-28-2004, 02:01 PM

Originally posted by Aeaea
Thanks Lennier! Are you still on a Mac? I am. If so, are there any Mac-only special capabilities in MOO III that you've discovered?Yes, I'm on a Mac. I've found one Mac-only special capability: If you hit option-w, the MOO III app will switch from full screen mode to a window mode, allowing you to work with other programs. I generally run MOO III in the window mode so I can switch between Microsoft Word and MOO III while writing my play-by-play AARs. I've had some peecee users on this forum state that they were jealous of this capability. :p

mpenni

09-28-2004, 02:35 PM

I have a question for the vets out there. This concerns the techs that are supposed to alleviate the gravity penalty that you suffer when your colony is on a world whose gravity is not "green" for your race.

I was under the impression that these techs were supposed to be built on planets that are either yellow or red gravity for the colonizing race, (I guess the dominant race if there is more than one). But I am finding that Roy builds them everywhere, even on planets that have the gravity listed as green. Why is he doing this?

I have read somewhere on these boards that the gravity penalty is a regional as opposed to a planetary thing. I thought maybe that this was happening because there was one region on the planet with a species that was suffering a gravity penalty on that planet. I left it at that and went on to try to figure out other aspects of this game that confuse me.

I have since settled on playing the Silicoids in most of my games and developed a rather zenophobic diplomatic policy. In short, I glass all planets that I encounter and recolonize them with my silicoids and I leave magnates alone, (I have read and am aware of the pros and cons of using magnates, but prefer playing racially homogenous empires, this helps me to playtest/learn other aspects of the game). This leaves me with an empire that is 100% silicoid and at the beginning of my games I usually only colonize those planets that are heavy, (green for rocks), gravity.

When I do eventually discover the gravity techs, I find that my planets with green gravity are still building these structures. I have no idea why the Roy keeps queuing them and I have no idea how to get him to stop, (no lock button on the planetary build queue). I have checked and these planets are populated 100% with silicoids, the planets are heavy gravity which is green for silicoids and as far as I can tell, the building of these structures causes no change in the production numbers. Why does Roy build these things seemingly haphazard and all over the place?

On a similar note, why does Roy build Hydroponic Farms and Subterranean Farms on planets populated completely by Silicoids? I have had a few games where I was able to keep 100% racial integrity well into turn 250, thus there is absolutely no need for bioharvest in the empire, yet there is Roy, building Hydroponic Farms everywhere.

Don't gravity structures and Hydroponic/Subterranean Farms have maintenance costs? Is it not counter productive to build things you do not need that will require you to pay maintenance? Even if you were to sell the bioharvest off as surplus, wouldn't the maintenance you are paying for the structure defeat the purpose? Why is Roy building these things? And most importantly, besides putting him up against the wall and having him shot, how can I get him to stop?

mpenni

09-28-2004, 02:46 PM

Originally posted by Lennier
Yes, I'm on a Mac. I've found one Mac-only special capability: If you hit option-w, the MOO III app will switch from full screen mode to a window mode, allowing you to work with other programs. I generally run MOO III in the window mode so I can switch between Microsoft Word and MOO III while writing my play-by-play AARs. I've had some peecee users on this forum state that they were jealous of this capability. :p

Hey Lennier, I am on a Mac here as well. On the subject of Mac-only special capabilities, have you been able to find a way to get mods like Bhuric's patcher to work on a Mac? Any suggestions as to how to deal with mods that are in exe format?

Bard of Prey

09-28-2004, 02:55 PM

The short answer... 'roy is stupid.

In case that failed to satisfy, here's the long answer... ;)

It is very important to remember in playing this game that the AI rarely, if ever in fact, evaluates the costs and benefits of doing anything. Instead, there are a set of fixed priorities, some hard-coded, some given in the spreadsheets, that allow the viceroy to decide what to build.

In the case of the examples you gave, the AI is instructed (through the AIPlanet.txt file) to place a very high priority on gravity improvement structures whenever they become available. It is also instructed to maintain certain minimum levels of things like minerals and food... and it doesn't care if you need them or not... just that the numbers are in line with its programmed priorities.

I used to have an incredibly hard time getting 'roy to actually build hydroponic farms (or bioharvest, or anything else appropriate) when my people were starving... and I've watched him queue up 3 Government DEAs in a row, on the same planet, while I'm producing less than 1/5 of the minerals required by my factories (and my Meklar were, once again, starving).

The other thing is that 'roy doesn't know (or doesn't care, depending on how you look at it) that buildings take time to build, and AUs to maintain... that's not his problem... he just builds what the spreadsheets tell him to build... and in that order.

As for what you can do about it, I've had the most success with modding... either via AIPlanets.txt or DevelopmentPlans.txt. If you're not at that point yet, then you could try using the standard dev plans (and/or a hefty dose of micromanagement) to bring him in line, but it's a lot like playing pool with a rope...

mpenni

09-28-2004, 03:13 PM

Originally posted by Bard of Prey
The short answer... 'roy is stupid.

In case that failed to satisfy, here's the long answer... ;)

As for what you can do about it, I've had the most success with modding... either via AIPlanets.txt or DevelopmentPlans.txt. If you're not at that point yet, then you could try using the standard dev plans (and/or a hefty dose of micromanagement) to bring him in line, but it's a lot like playing pool with a rope...

Thanks for the reply Bard of Prey. By the way, I am a big fan of your mods and use them in all my games. I especially like the work you have done on the race balance mod.

I must say that although I have tried my hand at tweaking the .txt files, (to say that I have modded would be overstating my abilities), much of them remain beyond my understanding. I would be curious to know what you have done to th AIPlanets.txt to solve this problem and what solutions are possible.

Is there some way to disable Roy's ability to build the gravity structures? Since the player cannot directly control the building of Hydroponic/Subterranean Farms, disabling Roy's ability to do so, would not be a ideal solution, (every silicoid empire needs some slaves right, and we have to find some what of feeding those slaves). I would love to get him to stop building gravity structures, microing that myself does not seem to be too much of a chore if it would means savings on maintenance costs.

Lennier

09-28-2004, 03:57 PM

BoP got most of your first post, except:
Originally posted by mpenni
On a similar note, why does Roy build Hydroponic Farms and Subterranean Farms on planets populated completely by Silicoids? I have had a few games where I was able to keep 100% racial integrity well into turn 250, thus there is absolutely no need for bioharvest in the empire, yet there is Roy, building Hydroponic Farms everywhere.Actually, there are some techs that make your industry DEAs use bioharvest, so you'll eventually need those Hydor & Sub Farms. And they generate some AUs when the bioharvest is excess to planet/empire needs. What's annoying is that when you get those Industry-DEAs-now-eat-food techs, Roy feeds the Industry DEAs before feeding the population. :bulb:

Hey Lennier, I am on a Mac here as well. On the subject of Mac-only special capabilities, have you been able to find a way to get mods like Bhuric's patcher to work on a Mac? Any suggestions as to how to deal with mods that are in exe format?Bh's patcher is peecee-specific. I'm awaiting someone with a high level of Mac programming skills to appear and port Bh's patcher over to the Mac. I'm also awaiting the arrival of cold front in Hades.

Bard of Prey

09-28-2004, 04:07 PM

Originally posted by mpenni
Thanks for the reply Bard of Prey. By the way, I am a big fan of your mods and use them in all my games. I especially like the work you have done on the race balance mod.

Thanks. :)

I actually have a new one I've been working on that I might release for beta testing soon... check the Fan Mods forum in a little bit... ;)

I must say that although I have tried my hand at tweaking the .txt files, (to say that I have modded would be overstating my abilities), much of them remain beyond my understanding. I would be curious to know what you have done to th AIPlanets.txt to solve this problem and what solutions are possible.

Well... it's tricky. :)

This file allows for some pretty powerful changes to AI behaviour, so it can be tough to balance things properly. For instance, in manipulating the figures for things like extra food and minerals to keep on hand, it's very easy to put the AI in the position of building farms and mines to the exclusion of all else... which isn't a good solution for anything...

To be honest with you, you might want to wait until you have more experience with modding before doing too much in this file... although feel free to experiment, if you're prepared to do a fair bit of 'hmm... that didn't work out very well... quit and tweak a bit more... start a new game... that's a bit better... repeat'.

The main thing to be careful of here is that you, as a human player, can compensate for the AI's stupidity to a large degree... AI empires are stuck with just what's in the files, for better or worse, so changes to the domestic AI can cripple them.

Is there some way to disable Roy's ability to build the gravity structures? Since the player cannot directly control the building of Hydroponic/Subterranean Farms, disabling Roy's ability to do so, would not be a ideal solution, (every silicoid empire needs some slaves right, and we have to find some what of feeding those slaves). I would love to get him to stop building gravity structures, microing that myself does not seem to be too much of a chore if it would means savings on maintenance costs.

The best way to do it, without hurting the AI empires (who sometimes need those buildings), is to do it via Development Plans. The simplest way would be to go into the DevelopmentPlans.txt file, and add the following to the 'Modifiers_Affected' column for every plan element... GravPen += -100.

I haven't tested this approach, but it should cause every planet with at least one dev plan operating on it (so always use at least an 'All Planets' plan) to ignore structures that reduce the gravity penalty. It won't affect AI empires.

Bard of Prey

09-28-2004, 04:16 PM

Originally posted by Lennier
BoP got most of your first post, except:
Actually, there are some techs that make your industry DEAs use bioharvest, so you'll eventually need those Hydor & Sub Farms.

That's true... you will want to have some bioharvest surplus for when you start getting bio-manufacturing techs... but the amount produced by the unmodded external farms is pretty minimal (though more significant probably for Silicoids... who don't want to waste space on any Bioharvest DEAs if they don't have to... than for anybody else, I suppose).

What's annoying is that when you get those Industry-DEAs-now-eat-food techs, Roy feeds the Industry DEAs before feeding the population. :bulb:

I discovered some interesting things in testing this recently. For one thing, it does the same with minerals (if you like to eat those). For another, it seems to work like this...

The AI will use whatever food and minerals are produced locally to feed the population first, then the industry. This is good. The trouble is, if your empire is in the red for either food or minerals, planets without a local source (like any new planet, for instance) are completely unable to import any, so they'll start to starve... and in the case of new colonies, the first thing they'll do is build an Industry DEA... which won't help.

Lennier

09-28-2004, 05:31 PM

Originally posted by Bard of Prey
I discovered some interesting things in testing this recently. For one thing, it does the same with minerals (if you like to eat those).Yes, quite true. And quite important for silicoids, meklar, and cynoids. (In my current game as cyniods, I had some stunting of growth during a mineral shortage phase.)

For another, it seems to work like this...

The AI will use whatever food and minerals are produced locally to feed the population first, then the industry. This is good. The trouble is, if your empire is in the red for either food or minerals, planets without a local source (like any new planet, for instance) are completely unable to import any, so they'll start to starve... and in the case of new colonies, the first thing they'll do is build an Industry DEA... which won't help. Yes, yes. More annoyances. Makes expansion hard. It would have been nice to allow the player to set a priority between industry & population for shortages. Like "feed all empire population first, then distribute to industry" or "feed all planets at 75%, then distribute to industry, then distribute to populations" etc. :sour:

Bard of Prey

09-28-2004, 06:21 PM

Originally posted by Lennier
Yes, yes. More annoyances. Makes expansion hard. It would have been nice to allow the player to set a priority between industry & population for shortages. Like "feed all empire population first, then distribute to industry" or "feed all planets at 75%, then distribute to industry, then distribute to populations" etc. :sour:

At the very least, they should have just had your food and minerals go first to your population, and whatever's left to the factories... and if there's still some left, sell it. For one thing, it seems strange to me that you can still get people to work while they're starving to death (notoriously hard to accomplish in RL... ;) ), especially if they eat minerals and work in a smelting plant!

More importantly though, starving populations are nearly impossible to deal with... they take multiple, cumulative hits:

1) they die from starvation... no big surprise;

2) the starvation itself acts as a 'push factor' for migration, so more pop lost, and no chance of getting people to move in to replace them;

3) starving also causes unrest, which then acts as an additional push factor for migration;

4) if you start a new colony with the minimum pop (which happens often with early colony ships, and always with migration), chances are you won't even get a chance to build a local mine/farm (even if you could get 'roy to do it before the Industry DEA) before the pop drops below the level for a full colony. At that point, you lose control of the colony, but they're still starving, and so the pop keeps falling, etc..

Quinch

10-02-2004, 10:08 AM

Originally posted by Dark Duke
If you like micromanaging.....

(such as I do - out of paranoia and distrust in my Roys)

try this:
From the beginning, handplace your DEAs when a new planet comes online.
- Remeber to place your DEAs in a way fitting the regional zoning scheme, e.g. very specialized planets for "specialized" zoning
- If you want easier late game microing, add I, R and M to your planets name in the rename box for Industry, Research and Mining worlds (Doh !) I personally find this easier to find them later.

Hehe, I've thought of this myself, altough I don't specialize planets so much as the zones - then, when I place all my DEAs, I take a look and decide what to classify the planet as. As for the actual managing, save for placing planetary improvements, I usually don't, simple as that. My approach is to allocate a certain portion of funds into each area {for example, fabs go with 50M/20P/20E/10T/0R, while mining and agro planets have 0M/40P/40E/20T/0R}, and leave them to develop by themselves. As the mining planets develop further, I end up running a VERY gift-driven economy, which may not be the most efficient of the lot, but even with the 5% fund drain, it beats keeping an eye on 200+ planets I end up with later in the game.

Aeaea

10-06-2004, 02:26 PM

I've read that one can reduce Heavy Foot of Government by switching governments on the Empire screen. Mine was at 3.4 while other empires were 2.1-2.4 -- so I switched from HIve to Unification (I'm playing Klackon), dropped my Empire tax by 2% (to keep unrest down), reduced my oppressmeter (getting killed by enemy spies now -- and have to bump it up occasionally well past the recommended max to get rid of them), and now.... 11 turns later (I think), HFoG is still rising, and at 3.5!

How long does it take for this number to go down? I had assumed it would drop almost immediately!

Lennier

10-06-2004, 02:38 PM

The "Reduce HFoG by Switching Governments" trick was cut with v1.2.5. Put your O-meter back to the max allowed by your government. A HFoG of 3.5 with your opponents at ~2 means your empire is bigger than theirs; you probably don't have anything to worry about.

Under 1.2.5, the only way (other than getting rid of large portions of your empire) to reduce HFoG is by acquiring certain techs.

Aeaea

10-12-2004, 01:43 PM

I've seen statements on these forums that say one needs to have a rack of missiles on each ship (or somewhere in each taskforce?) to ensure PD defenses will always operate against incoming missile/fighter attacks. Perhaps this is false or was fixed in the 1.2.5 patch... I can't tell.

I've noticed on a few occasions (I am currently playing "Watch"), my LR TFs won't defend against the first of these incoming assaults until it's too late. Is this just an anomaly or do I need to add a 1/20 rack of missiles to each PD ship in my TF?

[edit] Or is it possible that a TF which seems to not defend itself is calculated to be doomed and the combat engine just forgets to display the TF's futile attempts to save itself?

Dark Duke

10-13-2004, 12:46 AM

Before Version 1.2.5, only a rack of PD missiles would make PD fire. (Although a single Fighter also seemed to work and did not run out !)

In 1.2.5, the PD problem has improved, but sometimes a TF will not fire.

Another thing might help though:
Check if your PD heavy ships have a least one long-range weapon, as the maximum range affects visibility. If you only have PD weapons, you ship has shorter sight radius than with one spinal IPC or something similar. My PD ships appear to work better with enlarged sight radius.

(Also, I use Light, not PD mounts for PD and never assign a ship to be purely PD (mission type) make them LR or SR, they are more versatile and can be used in other jobs, e.g after a design switch to fill up old design TFs)

In my games in 1 out 0f 40 or so battles, the initial salvo does not get intercepted.It can be suffered. There may be a fix, but I would not know, as I am a bit of a Noob....:D

Aeaea

10-26-2004, 05:11 PM

Is there some way to force the game to choose different combat option defaults? For example, I typically would rather Watch than Cede Control (until late game), and I'd rather choose my own invade/bombard actions than cede control (since the AI always seems to go for the glass).

Every once in awhile, I accidentally hit the submit button before making one of these changes (and curse loudly) for I am rarely satisfied with just learning the outcome. If a battle outcome is obvious or I want a planet glassed, I do use cede control, but I want my "default" to be different.

Any way to do this short of a binary patch?

Lennier

10-26-2004, 05:30 PM

Originally posted by Aeaea
Any way to do this short of a binary patch? No. :sour: :alien:

Tony Donadio

01-09-2005, 11:13 AM

Here's one thing that I would find very helpful in coming to enjoy MOO3: a decent reference manual. The one that came with the game is next to useless: it is highly disorganized, with sections of backstory interspersed throughout it instead of collected in a separate section. I have the Prima Strategy guide as well, but neither of these seem to give me what I want: the ability to look up something during the game that I don't know or understand.

For example: What are the game effects of ECCM? Does it only aid the firing and targeting of the ship equipped with it, or does it have a general effect? If I equip my LR Armada's scouts with it, will that help my LR gunships or am I just wasting the ECCM if I do this? Another thing that would be helpful would be a concise and organized writeup on how to use development plans.

Does anyone know of a better reference work (or perhaps a website) on MOO3?

JosEPh

01-09-2005, 01:42 PM

Tony the manual is lacking greatly. Best suggestion would be to look over these forum and post questions.

There are 2 Good threads right here in the Strategy/Gameplay forum on Dev Plans. Da_Blade's and Strifeguard's, you'll have to do some reading but both contain some very insightful analysis of how and when to use Dev Plans and examples as well.

As for Eccm are you patched with the Official 1.2.5 patch? Eccm is supposed to decrease the effects of the enemies Ecm (jamming) of your detection range. There are many threads that have been devoted to this subject. From personal experience don't go overboard with their use. Sensors/Ecm/Eccm have some quirks in their coding.

www.moo3.at , www.mithyk.com/stationprime , and www.orionsector.com are 3 good sites as is these very forum.

Good Luck and hope to see you around.

Welcome to Moo3.

JosEPh

Tony Donadio

01-15-2005, 05:10 PM

Thanks for the welcome. Here are some questions, in no particular order:

1. What can one do to try to become a member of the Orion Senate if you don't start the game that way? I just finished an incredibly frustrating attempt at playing MOO3 (on the lowest level, no less, which I STILL have not beaten) in which I was clearly dominating the game, and then lost because someone else became president of the Orion senate. I had no opportunity whatosever during the game that I could see to do anything to try to become a member of the senate.

2. How is sending an "Antaran Expedition" supposed to work? Is the game supposed to build the expedition for you when you use the "victory" menu, or are you supposed to assemble it as you would any other task force? If the latter, how do you do that? If the former, how does the game decide what ships to put in it? I've tried several attempts at this and I variously saw no building whatsoever for many turns (a perpetual "18 ships remaining" message) or saw some of my reserves vanish without my input.

3. How are you supposed to find Antaran X's? I understand that one of them is on one of the Guardian protected planets, that you can research them, and that Antaran expeditions are supposed to find them (assuming that I can ever successfully build one). How else are you supposed to find them?

4. Is there ever any reason to visit the black holes or neutron stars off the starlanes? I've never found anything useful on one of them and their presence appears to be a waste.

5. How on earth do you keep the other races from attacking you all the time? My games always end up in "war/peace" cycles with EVERY race attacking me, making peace for the length of an armistice, and then attacking me again. Is this how the game is really supposed to work?

I'm running the latest "official" patch (1.25).

Thanks in advance for any help -- TD

eastwind

01-15-2005, 06:02 PM

1. Nothing you can do that I know of. You have to be nominated by an existing member of the senate, i.e. one of the computer races. I suppose it might help to make alliances with as many races as you can. I cheat: I don't want to pay the race-pick points for senate membership, I simply restart games until I get senate membership and a decent looking starting system.

2. Its pretty brainless. You need ships in your reserve, then you go to the victory screen's status tab, pull down the "send antaran expedition" to armada and click send. After that there's nothing to do except wait many turns and watch the status in the window beneath that. I wait until late in the game when I have plenty of ships to spare and fast ones. I deploy or scrap everything I don't want the AI to send on an expedition because I can't control what it picks. I build special expedition ships with research labs, tasked as recon, because that's what the AI picks (recon armadas). I have no idea whether there's any benefit to having more than one lab per taskforce, or more than one per ship in the taskforce. I have no idea whether it makes any difference if the ships you send are armed or not. I suppose not. You take losses, but I don't know why. Once the task force is listed in the window its been built, and is on the way. The ships have been deducted from your reserves.

3. Eventually each antaran expeditions finds a system, sometimes finds an X on that system, and then comes back. You can collect all 5 x's this way, you don't have to take on guardians. The 1 out of 5 thing you read is that there's a 20% chance when defeating a guardian that you'll find an X on the system, but I've had that happen twice in a game, although it only gave me the one X. Your expedition task forces take losses all the way there and back, so that's why you want armadas, becuase you don't want to lose it on the way back. The ships that make it back go back into your reserves. I suppose some people send one armada early, then try to recycle it by replacing the losses, but I just wait until I can crank out 180 research ships in less than 10 turns, build them all, and send them all at once. Then I wait for the X's to come back.

4. No.

5. It seems that once you grow big enough they all decide you're too much of a threat to tolerate and they all attack. Even if you had alliances, the alliances deteriorate and eventually they turn on you. I think the alternative is to give away planets and systems to your allied partners to keep the sizes more closely the same. But to win that way under the total domination of the universe criteria you need the "allied victory" patch from Bhuric's patch set. I haven't won that way yet.

6. Bhuric also wrote a "save game" editor, with which you can modify a game in progress to change the victory conditions (e.g. eliminate antaran x victory condition right before you get the 5th x so you can try to win by total domination). I've used that to turn off senate victory so I can play on for another victory condition.

pedxing

01-17-2005, 06:56 PM

(1) i pay the 10 points to be in the Senate, payed for with reduced ground combat stats. that's less like cheating, but not by much... ;)

(4) there's nothing at Black Hole and Neutron Stars, but they are not actually a waste of bytes.

what they actually do is what mountains or seas do in land based games: prevent or slow movement between otherwise nearby locations. this breaks the map up into well connected areas of medium size, less well connected to each other on a larger scale.

a good way to see this is to play a game out to where you know every starlane, then select a Black Hole, zoom all the way out, and rotate the galaxy around, keeping the hole in the center of your view.

imagine now the starlanes that would have connected the Black Hole to it's two or three nearest neighbors. they likely would have been enough to bridge the gap between two regions that are instead mostly out of touch.

(5) depends on what race you are playing. but in most cases, picking a side in the Fish/Lizard War (see FFLLHH below) early on can simplify diplomacy a bit. also getting your rivals and enemies kicked out of the Senate cuts down on backstabs from freinds. as does not getting too much more powerful than everybody else... at least not too quickly.

once you have well-defined freinds and enemies, and your friends are fighting your enemies for you, then go ahead and begin the rapid rise to power.

benzona

02-05-2005, 06:53 PM

can i upgrade one of my excicting ships after i built it to have batter weapons and equipment and etc.? and how if i can?

and another question, how do i make the AI upgrade the ships design automaticly when theres a new development?
or do i need to do it manully every time?
because to enter every fith turn to the shipyard is getting annoying

pedxing

02-05-2005, 07:58 PM

no, old ships cannot be upgraded, the way they could in MOO2.

there is also no way to get the AI to autodesign ships for you, the way Alpha Centauri does.

the best soultion, for me at least, has been: only obsolete and redesign the entire fleet when a new shield or star drive tech becomes available.

while you wait for new shields or star drives, you'll get new armor and weapons and system drives... no need to redesign for those.

when shields and stardrives come (hopefully, both at once) then just take whatever latest and greatest everything else you have.

benzona

02-06-2005, 06:04 PM

two questions
1) can i make a dea building or spaceport by miself (spaceports deep mining etc.) or is the only way to make it is to invest in the economic regular something?

2) i didnt got what the leaf and the word represent
what is for mining and what is for harvesting?

pedxing

02-07-2005, 12:51 AM

Originally posted by benzona
two questions
1) can i make a dea building or spaceport by miself (spaceports deep mining etc.) or is the only way to make it is to invest in the economic regular something?correct, you can't select when spaceports upgrades to the DEAs are built.

you can control how fast they are built by spending more of the planet's money on the economic watjahoosits, rather than military or terraform and such.

you can also (kind of) control what that spending gets spent on, using Development Plans.

for example, the more Farm you have in the two dev plans that apply to a planet:

(a) the more likely it is that Bioharvest DEAs will be zoned in likely regions (see below).
(b) the more likely it is that Improvements to existing Bioharvest DEAs will be made.

so even if you hand-zone all the DEAs on all your planets, Dev Plans can still be very useful for controlling the relative rate of improvement of those DEAs, relative to DEAs of other types.

2) i didnt got what the leaf and the word represent
what is for mining and what is for harvesting? mountains are for mining, plains are for harvesting, broken is ok but not great for either.

if you have the 1.2.5 patch installed, you should be able to click on a region and the little text box will display information like how good the mining and bioharvesting would be in that region.

how good an area is for Bioharvesting also depends on how fertile it is, that's the leaf and word. the greener the leaf, the better it is. it can be possible that a fertile mountain would be better at bioharvest than a barren plain on the same world.

the best thing to do is check the numbers when placing the DEAs. or have dev plans that you trust enough to mostly let the AI do it's thing... which is advisable anyway, becasue of (b) above.

edit:

also, there is a nice mod which adds a number to the leaf like +1 or -2 so that you don't have to try to guess what color it is. i think it also comes with replacements for the plains and mountains icons, but i like the originals better. figuring out how to get just the leaves without the new terrain icons was a good introduction to the basic skills needed for modding. :up:

edit edit:

thought i found it. not it. :(

edit edit edit:

ok, really found it, this time:AngleWyrm's NewLeaf mod (http://www.moo3.at/mods/index.php?action=displaycat&catid=16&page=2&orderlinks=&perpage=9)!

and now i remember... the modding lession from this one was actually how to get the icons where they needed to be without running the .exe that comes with them... :D

the one to figure out how to get just part of a mod was New Terrain and Fertility Icons by Richy (http://www.moo3.at/mods/index.php?action=displaycat&catid=16&page=3&orderlinks=&perpage=10)... but now i don't remember if i liked the fertility or terrain ones less...

either way, i like AngleWyrm's better.

benzona

02-08-2005, 08:34 AM

thnks for the help pedxing but i got another question
after i conquer a planet can i use the soldeirs i used to conquer it back to space and upload them into a trans ship?
and how?
and i'm on a system with an nme planet and theres no nme ships and still it dont give me a invade option altogh i got a trans ship in the system with sold in it
why and how i invade?

Zyphyr

02-09-2005, 02:22 AM

Originally posted by benzona
thnks for the help pedxing but i got another question
after i conquer a planet can i use the soldeirs i used to conquer it back to space and upload them into a trans ship?
and how?
and i'm on a system with an nme planet and theres no nme ships and still it dont give me a invade option altogh i got a trans ship in the system with sold in it
why and how i invade?

The only way to get those troops on another transport is to disband them on the planet screen, wait through the time it takes them to pass through the delay box and then form a new transport TF.

As for why you aren't able to invade - only taskforces that participated in the combat can participate in the bombardment/invasion phase. If the transports sit out the fight, invasion can't happen.

benzona

02-09-2005, 06:35 AM

there wasn't no fight the planet was unguerded
and another question can i choose not to invade a planet when the planet invasion screen is showen?

Alphard

02-09-2005, 06:52 AM

You can choose not to invade at the second screen where you can choose if you want to bombard or drop some troops. Once you have already dropped some troops on the enemy planet, they will have to fight that round, so- no you cannot cancel invading the planet from invasion screen.
A

The Wagster

02-09-2005, 07:01 AM

Is the planet a full colony or is it just an outpost. You can only invade Colony's, not outposts unfortunately. When an outpost reaches a population of 1000 it turns into a colony.

To tell whether it is a colony or outpost look at the name of the planet on the system screen; if the first letter of the name is a capital it is a colony and if it's in lower case the planet is a lowly outpost. Annoyingly you can't bombard outposts either:mad:

If it is an outpost you have four options open to you for further expansion...

1) Leave your ships in the system and hope to starve the remaining population off of the planet. Note: the population may never reach 0.

2) Take your ships out of the system hoping that the population will increase to 1000 and turn the planet into a colony that you could invade or bomb. Note: the population may never reach 1000.

3) Try to land a colony ship on the planet. When a planet is still an outpost it is possible for other empires to land colony ships on it. If you can increase the population of your subjects on the planet to 1000 it will become one of your colonies. Note: if the outpost used to be a colony that has fallen on hard times and turned into an outpost you may not be able to land a colony ship on it; colony ships need an empty region to land in.

4) Accept this piddling little outpost will remain in enemy hands and move to the next system. When you destroy the rest of their Colonies the outpost will fall.

I hope that planet is an outpost otherwise I've written all that for nothing:sour::p

And yes, it is possible to not invade a planet if you wish. On the screen where you can "unload troops" or "unload all troops" (or whatever those buttons say) you just click on "done" without unloading any troops or bombarding the planet.

Artagel

02-09-2005, 10:21 AM

To add to Wagster's advice.

If you choose the option (probably the best one) to send either a colony ship or outpost of your own there, you should also choose "Set Migration" once your colony/ outpost has landed. This will build your population more quickly and increase the chance that you will get control of the planet first.

benzona

02-09-2005, 12:31 PM

it's dosnt give my unload troops unload all or anything and it doesnt give my bombardment option also
what it do is just show my a invade screen (like before a battle) and asks me if i want the ai to manage it or i to manage it
and another question, how do i destroy my coloneis
and realy thenks for the help i hope i'm not bothering any 1

The Wagster

02-11-2005, 04:45 AM

I'm aware of only one way to destroy your own colonies and that's to build the "Genocide Complex". I think the Genocide Complex was added by a modder (S1. Genocide) in his Invader Mod but it may feature in other mods. I'm pretty sure it doesn't feature in unmodded MoO3.

You build the Genocide Complex in the "Planetary Build Queue" just below the military build queue where you build your ships. The Genocide Complex will remove all population from the planet in one turn leaving it available for re-colonisation later. The Genocide Complex will survive the process so you have to remember to destroy the Genocide Complex the turn you land your colony ships or else your new colonists will be killed as well.

pedxing

02-11-2005, 06:28 AM

Originally posted by benzona
it's dosnt give my unload troops unload all or anything and it doesnt give my bombardment option also
what it do is just show my a invade screen (like before a battle) and asks me if i want the ai to manage it or i to manage it maybe you are there with allies, and they controlled the bombardment phase?

mpenni

02-15-2005, 02:12 PM

Hello everyone out there. Long time lurker, infrequent poster, (mostly because I am still trying to figure this game out!)

I have a quick question concerning Infrastructre. What is it exactly? I see several techs that are supposed to increase the number of infrastructure points for a region, (Sanitation Infrastructure is the first that comes to mind), but what are these points? What effect do they have on gameplay?

Sorry if this has been asked somewhere before, but I have not been able to find any concise description or eplanation in the threads I have looked at. Thanks for any help the vets out there can provide....

redrick

02-15-2005, 03:42 PM

Hi,

If I have more than 10 TFs at a planet and there's a battle, only 10 will be used. How is it determined which 10 will be used?

pedxing

02-15-2005, 04:50 PM

Originally posted by redrick
If I have more than 10 TFs at a planet and there's a battle, only 10 will be used. How is it determined which 10 will be used? randomly, it seems. :(

Zyphyr

02-16-2005, 01:32 AM

Originally posted by mpenni
Hello everyone out there. Long time lurker, infrequent poster, (mostly because I am still trying to figure this game out!)

I have a quick question concerning Infrastructre. What is it exactly? I see several techs that are supposed to increase the number of infrastructure points for a region, (Sanitation Infrastructure is the first that comes to mind), but what are these points? What effect do they have on gameplay?

Short answer - Infrastructure is a multiplier on production. 1 full point of Infrastructure is a 100% increase in base production.

redrick

02-17-2005, 03:41 PM

What is the effect of the +25% relations bonus that humanoids have? How does it compare to good or superior trade and diplomacy.?

Also the +30% Research bonus that Psilons, Imsaeis and Eoladi get. How does it compare to picks in Research and Creativity?

redrick

02-19-2005, 10:18 AM

Originally posted by eastwind
1. Nothing you can do that I know of. You have to be nominated by an existing member of the senate, i.e. one of the computer races. I suppose it might help to make alliances with as many races as you can. I cheat: I don't want to pay the race-pick points for senate membership, I simply restart games until I get senate membership and a decent looking starting system.

I'm a newbie and I got into the senate around turn 250- I think it wasn't too obvious so be on the look out for any indication- check the senate tab in Foreign Office often and after any mention of Senate in SitRep. I think I got in just because I was big and powerful. Playing Nommo on easy/huge, at war with Raas (naturally), non-aggression pacts with Meklar and Imsaeis. Lots of TAs IA & RA with latter. All I knew was one day a message in SitRep "Senate Research going forward", or something like that. A few turns later, there was an election and I was one of the candidates for president! How far back I'd become a member I do not know, but certainly not at the beginning- I checked and also had little contact with other races for some time. I was probably nominated by the smarmy little Meklar pillock who acts as though he kisses the ground I walk on but won't trade me Research Labs for three planets (or techs) to save his mother's (do they have mother's?) life.

redrick

02-20-2005, 12:05 PM

If I capture a planet that's heavily populated by another race, will terraforming fix it up for them, or for my race? Or should I leave it alone for them?

Pragmatic

02-20-2005, 12:47 PM

Originally posted by redrick
If I capture a planet that's heavily populated by another race, will terraforming fix it up for them, or for my race? Or should I leave it alone for them?

I think I can answer this one. Terraforming applies to the majority population. So if you want it to apply to your race, set up a colonization flag on the planet, wait until (if ever) the planet becomes majority your race, THEN start terraforming.

Keep in mind, I believe it's possible for the population to fluctuate, resulting in terraforming being reversed and applying to another race. And also, a colonization flag makes it much more likely for any race in your empire to colonize the planet, even ones for whom the planet is marginal (and once they're there, it's almost impossible to get rid of them).

redrick

02-20-2005, 01:31 PM

Originally posted by Pragmatic
I think I can answer this one. Terraforming applies to the majority population.

Many thanks. I want it very comfortable for THEM so I can recruit lots of ground troops there. (My own race customized for maximum lameness it that area).

redrick

02-23-2005, 02:17 PM

Hi,
I'm at turn 301 of my first game. I fought a long war with the Raas (I'm Nommo) which was unaviodable with the hugh race hatred numbers. I have just about (they have 3 systems left) totally wiped them out. (Will I get in trouble in the senate for that or should I leave one planet?)

But I was looking forward to a period of piece to concentrate on research and consolidating my gains when my good friends the Imsaeis unexplicably declared war on me. We are still on amicable terms acording to the "Victory" tab, have maxed out trade and research agreements and a non-agression pact. And I should think if he wanted a fight he would have done so when I was still occupied with the Raas.

Anyhow, I have been at war so long I would have fun with peace for a bit so is there any way to get out of this? My empire are far more powerful, the other race (besides the New Orions) is an ally. I just don't want to spend 50+ turns right now taking him down.

So what would work best? He's already lost a fleet of 96 ships attacking 54 of mine I had on "defend plant"- my tech is better. Should I give him gifts, keep asking for a cease fire and armistice? Or should I get him condemned in the senate (I have the votes- I could have won a senate game by now but I'm playing "last man standing"), embargo him, and destroy a couple of his fleets and planets? Do these guys ever back down before you've genocided them? Or is there anyway to get them to back off from what was stupid of them in the first place?

pedxing

02-23-2005, 03:19 PM

finish off the Raas. there's no additional penalty for taking a player out of the game.

orbital genocide is frowned on in general, not just as a finishing move. invasion makes bystanders fear you much less than bombardment, it seems.

the only really good use for bombardment i've found is to take out mob centers, and that only takes a light dusting. unloading all is, so to speak, overkill.

for the Imsaeis, check to see who else they are allied with, and if any of those are at war with you (maybe the Raas?), then there's you answer. this is what i'd suspect, since they still have good relations with you.

another reason could be the Lone Superpower Effect, which would make sense since you are so much more powerful than everybody else... but i'd expect that your relations with them would have declined first, if this was the cause.

i've not found giving gifts to be that helpful, other than to bring up the power level of allies (and bring down my own) to the point where the Lone Superpower Effect is less likely to kick in. note that this requires giving up planets, not just tech.

as for what to do with them now, first check on the Victory tab to see if they are in a state of Holy War. if so, try not to blow up any of their stuff, it will just upset them... just defend your planets and offer them peace deals, before relations sour. if they aren't in Holy War, maybe blow up some (but not too much) of their stuff each turn, and offer them those same peace deals.

if you can stop the fighting, you can usually have them back as allies pretty quickly.

but do expect, if you continue to be hugely more powerful than everybody else, that everybody will turn on you before the end of the game...

oh, and what victory conditions are you playing?

Bhruic

02-23-2005, 03:29 PM

Originally posted by pedxing
another reason could be the Lone Superpower Effect

There is no "Lone Superpower" effect.

What there is is an "I want to expand" effect. All computer empires want to expand. Whoever is close to them, and in the way of their expansion will find it extremely difficult to keep up good relations. This is true for small and large empires. Large empires see it more often because (a) they are taking up more space, and (b) are generally "in the way" of more empires.

Bh

pedxing

02-23-2005, 03:34 PM

:eek:

once again my dearest beliefs are dashed and i thank you for it, Bh.

i suppose then that making other empires more powerful by giving them more planets helps to spread out the expansion envy, then? makes the player less of a target?

well, at least i can i still say that the little empires "hate my freedom". :D

redrick

02-23-2005, 03:49 PM

Originally posted by pedxing
but do expect, if you continue to be hugely more powerful than everybody else, that everybody will turn on you before the end of the game...

oh, and what victory conditions are you playing?

Thanks much for all your help. I'm playing sole-survivor, no senate victory or relicts victory.

They're in Holy War alright, so I'll try not to step on their toes.

pedxing

02-23-2005, 03:52 PM

oh, yeah, if all you have is sole-survivor, then get ready for continuous war from this point on...

and, by-the-by, have you used Bhruic's patcher?

redrick

02-23-2005, 04:33 PM

Originally posted by pedxing
oh, yeah, if all you have is sole-survivor, then get ready for continuous war from this point on...

and, by-the-by, have you used Bhruic's patcher?

Nope. Just straight 1.25. What's it do?

pedxing

02-23-2005, 04:44 PM

oh, the question is, what doesn't it do? ;)

fixes some stupid irritating bugs (like the bad sitrep link for completed invasions), adds a couple of nice features (like better visibility of colonly ship races), and keeps the AI players from disbanding all their troop transports one turn after they leave port.

yeah. the AI was that broken in official release/patch. :down:

something like, one turn after leaving port the ship captains would realize:

"uhoh! we're going into a combat zone, but we don't have any weapons! disband, disband!"

with Bhruic's patcher, AI players will actually get troop transports to destinations, and invade worlds with them...

doesn't keep them from glassing the planets before the transports arrive, but it is a huge improvement!

the other thing i think is huge is the addition of a new victory condition: Allied Victory.

more or less: if you can get an alliance with every remaining empire/kill off all empires that you don't have an alliance with, you win.

makes it so that you don't have to take over every last planet, and holds out the hope that you can:

a) win the game before your allies all try to stab you in the back.
b) play the game longer than with Senate Victory, but not so long as Sole Survivor.

some people (me included) are playing such games currently, trying to figure out how to get (a) to happen with a non-trivial number of empires... :alien:

redrick

02-24-2005, 12:09 AM

Originally posted by pedxing
oh, the question is, what doesn't it do? ;)

fixes some stupid irritating bugs (like the bad sitrep link for completed invasions), adds a couple of nice features (like better visibility of colonly ship races), and keeps the AI players from disbanding all their troop transports one turn after they leave port.

...
the other thing i think is huge is the addition of a new victory condition: Allied Victory.

more or less: if you can get an alliance with every remaining empire/kill off all empires that you don't have an alliance with, you win.

makes it so that you don't have to take over every last planet, and holds out the hope that you can:

a) win the game before your allies all try to stab you in the back.
b) play the game longer than with Senate Victory, but not so long as Sole Survivor.

some people (me included) are playing such games currently, trying to figure out how to get (a) to happen with a non-trivial number of empires... :alien:

Many thanks. One patch that doesn't have any negatives for me!

redrick

02-24-2005, 10:09 AM

Originally posted by pedxing
finish off the Raas. there's no additional penalty for taking a player out of the game.

orbital genocide is frowned on in general, not just as a finishing move. invasion makes bystanders fear you much less than bombardment, it seems.

I believe that, but in this game I can't imagine having enough troops to invade all those planets. Too bad an overpowering fleet can't just tell a system, "Surrender or die."

pedxing

02-24-2005, 01:04 PM

yes, lack of the "Surrender" option from MOO2, is one of my big remaining beefs with the game... or having the defeated empire swear loyalty in return for being spared, like in SMAC.

either option would be fine.

as for troops, just insert a x10 production orders for your best unit at the front of the queue of your biggest couple of planets.

suddenly, instant army!

redrick

02-24-2005, 04:23 PM

Originally posted by pedxing
yes, lack of the "Surrender" option from MOO2, is one of my big remaining beefs with the game... or having the defeated empire swear loyalty in return for being spared, like in SMAC...

Yeah. But just to clarify, do the AI players never try to back out (call for cease fire or armistice) once they see they're losing badly?

And if they do, what's it take to get them to do that?

redrick

02-24-2005, 04:25 PM

Hi,

Here's another newbie question: I keep seeing references to text files and spreadsheets. I haven't had any luck finding this stuff. Is there a place I can go to find them?

DeckPrism

02-24-2005, 04:54 PM

Originally posted by redrick
Hi,

Here's another newbie question: I keep seeing references to text files and spreadsheets. I haven't had any luck finding this stuff. Is there a place I can go to find them?

MOO3 uses mob files which are zipped spreadsheets. So people unzip them, keep the origninal mob file, and alter one of the spreadsheet files. This is known as modding. IIRC, a text file overrides the mob file, so that lets you keep the original values unmodified. Carefull, I haven't actualy done any modding.

pedxing

02-24-2005, 04:58 PM

yeah, once a comp player gets pushed against the wall, they rarely ever do the smart thing and give up... although sometimes they actually do.

it's been rare enough, in my experience, that i don't know what would help make it happen more often.

but it does happen, occasionally.

now, about spreadsheets and graphics and text files, those are in the .mob files, which are really just renamed .zip files.

the game looks in its directories for the files, and if it doesn't find an uncompressed copy of whatever it is looking for, it will use the version in the .mob file.

this lets us put modified version of files into the directories, and then those will be picked up by the game instead of the released .mob version.

it's a pretty cool design, since it means we don't have to change the contents of the .mobs to make mods, and can undo mods easily by just deleting the non-mob contents of the directories! :up:

edit: cross posted with DP. hi, DP!

also good to know: most mods are zip files, and the way you install them is to just unzip them in the MOO3 main directory, making sure that your unzipper will used the directory paths from the zip (usually a check box). the files will all find their ways to the right directories, then.

eastwind

02-24-2005, 09:00 PM

Once you've used your troops to take a planet you can disband the survivors and eventually they show back up in your reserves. I leave them on the planet they've conquered until I've eliminated unrest and built a piracy prevention system fleet. I think the troops gain experience while they're deployed.

You disband them an army (or detachment etc) at a time from the planet's military details screen, ground unit display tab.

I play with Bard of Prey's Race Mod, which changes the racial ground combat values, so I set up my x10 ground unit production on planet(s) that are dominated by a race with a high gndCombat value (typically one of the magnates). Because those planets aren't always the highest producing, I often have several planets pumping out ground troops of various specialties. I mix 10x production of batteloids (or whatever my best combat unit is) on each of the planets with 5x production of one of the other support troop types to keep the ratios balanced. This is yet another point in the game where I always wish for a longer production queue.

(edited for spelling)

redrick

02-24-2005, 09:30 PM

Originally posted by pedxing
yeah, once a comp player gets pushed against the wall, they rarely ever do the smart thing and give up... although sometimes they actually do.

Altogether it seems difficult to come up with a strategy for a game long enough to explore more of the tech tree. If you expand enough to be secure you get too big and they suicidally attack you.

It's my first game and I'm playing easy in a huge galaxy with only 3 computer opponents (+ the Orions). I guess using the race mod to pick only friendly types would help.

eastwind

02-24-2005, 09:43 PM

The stuck-tech bug shows up at about tech level 35. Be sure and apply Bhuric's fix for that (at least) before you hit it. IIRC, I was able to apply that fix to my first game after I hit the problem (once I found out about Bhuric's patcher & fix) and keep playing the same game. The stuck techs became unstuck but some already had ridiculously long times. Eventually I got them all, but better to prevent than recover.

In general, you can't apply patches or mods to games-in-progress without causing problems, but IIRC this one is strictly a game code change that doesn't affect the save game files, so its ok to do during a game.

edit for clairity: you have to save the game, quit, apply the patch & restart moo3, you can't modify the exe while its running of course.

Since you know that sooner or later the AI's will all attack you, keep your eye out for a few choke point systems that you can heavily fortify and garrison. Never neglect the topology of the universe :p

pedxing

02-24-2005, 09:54 PM

i'm hoping that my "strategically give away large chunks of empire to friends" strategy works out... it might keep the allies friendly all the way to the end of an Allied Victory game.

in a game with more players, like 8 or 12, it's easier to find friendly empires to form a bloc with, especially if you start in the Senate.

then you can marginalize the unfriendly empires, give their natural enemies (your friends) military bases on their doorstep, and provide space support to your friend's invasion.

the trick, i think, is to get ahead of the other players, but not too far ahead. and if you start getting too far ahead, give more planets away. win, yes, but win just barely!

it might even work. wish i had time to play and find out... :(

eastwind

02-24-2005, 10:14 PM

I think the allied victory is really challenging, regardless of game difficulty level. In my last game, playing cybernetics, I made an early ally of the Raas, a race I only knew through the senate (not a neighbor), and raised the level to alliance. That race was doing pretty well in the other half of the galaxy, and I thought between us we might achieve allied victory.

But the grendarls fouled me up. They were a crummy little 3-system race on my southern flank, and they were totally bottled up between me and the humans. I wasn't at war with them, and their expansion attempts into human territory were getting repeatedly repulsed. They wouldn't ally with me so I fried bigger fish while ignoring them. Mistake.

They allied with the Raas across the galaxy (I don't even know how they had contact) and then subsequently declared war on me. Instead of honoring the long-standing alliance with the more powerful race, the Raas went with the Grendarl and my chance at allied victory went down the tubes. A couple hundred turns later I won by total domination.

I think if you want allied victory you need to play a fish or lizard, and you need there to be other fish/lizard races for you to ally with. Other race combinations aren't strong enough to hold up. Maybe this only applies to BoP's race mod...

PedX, what race r u and your allies?

pedxing

02-25-2005, 01:24 AM

Originally posted by eastwind
PedX, what race r u and your allies? check out the Grey Godfathers link in my sig for all the gory details... :alien:

redrick

02-26-2005, 10:18 AM

Originally posted by pedxing
check out the Grey Godfathers link in my sig for all the gory details... :alien:

I did very interesting. I'm thinking of an all-out for science race that might be called "Grey Ghosts". Imsaeis have as high a racial science advantage as Psilons. + a manufacturing one. Superior & original research of course. Superior trade and Fantastic Traders AND Emphatic because in this forum I learned that tech trades are affected by this and not diplomacy at all. Dangerous spies so I can steal what I can't discover or swap for. Government oligharchy with another science bonus, which can possibly toggle with constitutional monarchy at the beginning to ease the early food & mine crunch.

Diplomacy, only average, is a weak point but the Emphatic should help that a bit. Have to spin the dice a bit to get senate and a decent home system. Think it'll fly?

I wonder what the Godfathers and Ghosts would think of each other?

redrick

02-26-2005, 10:25 AM

Originally posted by Ron_Lugge
It takes one turn after accept/refuse for the diplo screen to update. Also, remember to use the RIGHT emphasis for the right people.

Sakkra: Demand
Eoladi: Reason
Human: Reason
Grendarl: Reason
Trilarian: Reason
Tachidi: Declare
Imsaes: Declare
Evon: Beg
Klackon: Aruge
Cynoid: State
Silicoid: State
Raas: Reason

I think thats all the ones I know...

I saw another one of these- the Meklar are always left off. Anybody know if they're the same as the Cynoid? I must get Research Labs off of them somehow or other. Trying spies as well...

eastwind

02-26-2005, 10:29 AM

Yes, I read your whole thread too, pedxing. I think between your story and bhruic's recent work I've been inspired to play moo3 again. I guess I've never seen the value of giving away systems before, so I suppose I'm still in the noob hack and slash category, or whatever you called it. Well, I do play the cynoids so it should be a little bit understandable.

One question, that goes here rather than there due to its newbie nature: Instead of giving that one planet away to the grendarls 2 turns before the mob center was done, why didn't you wait for it to complete, holding up the production on the other planet's system seat if necessary? Is there some limitation that prevents one from giving away mob planets? Or does giving them away trash any already-built mobs? I'm trying to invent a rational here...

eastwind

02-26-2005, 10:57 AM

Originally posted by redrick
I saw another one of these- the Meklar are always left off. Anybody know if they're the same as the Cynoid? I must get Research Labs off of them somehow or other. Trying spies as well...

Psilon's not on there either, unless I'm :cool: blind.

redrick

02-26-2005, 11:10 AM

Hi,

Sorry to ask what's already posted but I cannot find it with this search engine. When your game gets stuck you're supposed to get out of it by hitting ctrl-alt-esc or ctrl-shift-esc. Which is it? Or do they both do something different?

eastwind

02-26-2005, 02:25 PM

This is, I think, basically a windows question, not specific to moo3. And I'm not sure exactly what you want, or what state you're in, so three answers:

You can hit Alt+Tab to switch between running programs. If moo3 was not the only thing running then that's one way to get back to the desktop.

Alt+Esc does something similar, but I'm not sure what it does when you're running a full-screen app like moo3.

You can hit Ctrl+Alt+Del. What this does depends on which version of windows you have, but, at least for XP, it should bring up the task manager, giving you the chance to terminate a program with extreme prejudice, or reboot.

Ctrl+Shift+Esc appears to bring up the task manager, also. Maybe there's some difference in the way it brings up the task manager, or how fast.

I've never used Ctrl+Alt+Esc, my hand won't do that.

redrick

02-26-2005, 03:23 PM

It's that from time to time my when playing moo3 I'll alt-tab away, then alt-tab back, and the galaxy screen is dark and you can't click on any planets. I've tried all sorts of things to get it back. The other screens work and you can save/quit or hit the turn button. But it's hugely frustrating when you're, say, redesigning your fleet and you alt-tab out to look something up here...

I know I saw something in one of these forums about a "directx exception" or something like that. And it was said that if you hit ctrl-alt-esc or something like that it would restore your moo3 screen without you're having to quit the game. I'd be interested if anybody knows what this is about.

redrick

02-26-2005, 05:01 PM

Hi,

Is there a way to tell which planet in a system has an enemy mob center on it?

eastwind

02-26-2005, 06:45 PM

Found this on page 5 of pedxing's Fish Friends thread:

Race ask respond
Sakkra demand insult
Eoladi reason polite
Human reason polite
Grendarl reason polite
Trilarian reason polite
Tachidi declare ?
Imsaies declare ?
Evon beg humble
Klackon argue cool
Cynoid state formal
Silicoid state formal
Raas reason polite
Meklar declare cold
Nommo ? ?
Psilon ? ?
Ithkul ? ? (does anyone ever TALK to these guys??)

So that answers the question about the meklars, but still leaves 3 races unknown. I wish one of the good players would pipe up with their best guesses for the other 3. I learn more about this game all the time... Its no wonder my diplomacy always sucks.

Oh, and I too would like to know how to tell which planets have mob centers -- that's been a question for me even when I've been playing slag the universe strategy.

ture

02-26-2005, 08:07 PM

Check this out:
http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=451193

My list there didn´t have any Eoladi on it...

pedxing

02-26-2005, 09:19 PM

Originally posted by eastwind
Instead of giving that one planet away to the grendarls 2 turns before the mob center was done, why didn't you wait for it to complete, holding up the production on the other planet's system seat if necessary?no good reason, other than i was in a rush, didn't want to delay productio, and didn't think the Grendarl would f it up so badly... :sour:

AI must clear out production queues on gift/exchange worlds as soon as they get them, or something.

now i know better.

eastwind

02-27-2005, 02:56 AM

Originally posted by ture
Check this out:
http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=451193

My list there didn´t have any Eoladi on it...

Thanks!I missed that thread (I think because my search had "diplomacy AND ..." in it). Your list filled in a couple question marks, and otherwise agreed perfectly with the other lists had (which is almost scary). So here's the union of lists so far:

// Format - RACE[species][race] // Race Ask Respond
RACE00 // Human Reason Polite
RACE01 // Evon Beg Humble
RACE02 // Psilon reason ?
RACE10 // Imsaeis Declare ?
RACE11 // Eoladi Reason Polite
RACE20 // Silicoid State Formal
RACE30 // Meklar Declare Cold
RACE31 // Cynoid State Formal
RACE40 // Trilarian Reason Polite
RACE41 // Nommo Reason ?
RACE50 // Ithkul ? ?
RACE60 // Klackon Argue Cool
RACE61 // Tachidi Declare ?
RACE70 // Sakkra Demand Insult
RACE71 // Raas Reason Polite
RACE72 // Grendarl Reason Polite

I'm storing my list as comments in my RaceConfig.ini file (used with Bhruic's Race Selection Patch)

redrick

02-27-2005, 09:56 AM

Originally posted by Da_Blade
When they are colonized, you do the same, but this time choose the conquered race and start building colony ships on the conquered colony's.

Will the auto-colonizing AI use these or do you have to do it and send to chosen targets manually?

And do you have to eliminate all your other colony ships for a while so you're sure the right ones are going to the right places, turning off auto-colony?

eastwind

02-27-2005, 10:41 AM

The least micromanaging way of doing it is to set auto-colonize on and make sure you have a stream or at least a trickle of colony ships being built by every race in your empire. This often results in planets with mixed populations, but although others have seen unrest due to this, I haven't, not when I've built sufficent anti-piracy hulls in each system.

Alternatively, you can make sure you have Bhuric's patch that shows the race being carried by a colony ship, turn off auto-colonization, and micromange the whole thing. I played a game where I had a spreadsheet with a row for each of my 500+ planets and a column for each of my empire's constituent races, with a double entry at each cell that I'd filled out to keep track of the planet's habitability and gravity with respect to that column's race. Then as colony ships were built I picked a destination, named the task force so I could keep track, updated my spreadsheet, and sent the ships off, also updating the spreadsheet when the ships got there, when the planets got to be a colony, etc. I don't think I'll do that again, the loss of efficiency just isn't large enough to be worth all the bookkeeping. But you might enjoy playing one game that way just to see, in a smaller universe.

redrick

02-27-2005, 01:02 PM

Originally posted by eastwind
But you might enjoy playing one game that way just to see, in a smaller universe.

Much smaller!

Thank you so much. I'm definately one to macromanage as much as possible, though at this stage (my first ever game, turn 322) learning to macromanage is almost as time consuming as microing would be.

redrick

02-28-2005, 12:04 PM

Originally posted by eastwind
The least micromanaging way of doing it is to set auto-colonize on and make sure you have a stream or at least a trickle of colony ships being built by every race in your empire.

It Work's! I can't do the Bhruic patches that require the .dll as they cause problems to my game-in-progress. (Next game for sure.) So I added race to the names of the colony ships being built, left auto-colonize on, &. sure enough the first two colony ships sent to Exreme planets had "Made by Imsaeis" stamped on their sterns. Thanks again.

Phantom_pain

03-02-2005, 01:43 PM

Here's some noob questions I want to ask (Which was kind of hard for me to find in the forum or from the encylopedia)

1- Why doesnt the construction in the Planetary Infrastructure begin constructing? All I see is eg -1 Turn or just black. I've waited a couple of turns but still, it wont proceed.

2- I've designed a Cruiser in the shipyard but why cant I see it in the military build list?

3- I've managed to build some Defence Base but after the production, why cant I see it in my system force? (BTW, what does it do anyway? The only why I can learn was Build and Try)

4- The problem of my unrest was commonly about 'starve'. Is there any way I can export and import to the starving planet?

5- I have seen Enemy spaceships which was annoyingly strong. I had more ships (I think)
Me- 40/40 against Annoying Invaders 8/8.
the outcome was 0/40 to 7/8.
Can someone please explain to me, what kind of ships were they using? If possible, how can I build those strong ships?shipyard?

I understand that my questions were lame to answer but please bear with me. I saved my game and currently waiting for these questions to be answered before I load. I dont wanna mess my game up.

eastwind

03-02-2005, 02:32 PM

Originally posted by Phantom_pain
Here's some noob questions I want to ask (Which was kind of hard for me to find in the forum or from the encylopedia)

1- Why doesnt the construction in the Planetary Infrastructure begin constructing? All I see is eg -1 Turn or just black. I've waited a couple of turns but still, it wont proceed.

2- I've designed a Cruiser in the shipyard but why cant I see it in the military build list?

3- I've managed to build some Defence Base but after the production, why cant I see it in my system force? (BTW, what does it do anyway? The only why I can learn was Build and Try)

4- The problem of my unrest was commonly about 'starve'. Is there any way I can export and import to the starving planet?

5- I have seen Enemy spaceships which was annoyingly strong. I had more ships (I think)
Me- 40/40 against Annoying Invaders 8/8.
the outcome was 0/40 to 7/8.
Can someone please explain to me, what kind of ships were they using? If possible, how can I build those strong ships?shipyard?

1. Not sure, do you have the planetary econ AI checked or unchecked? What % of resources is going to the planetary queue? (slider to the right of the queue)?

2. On a given planet you can only build those ships which the ship-building infrastructure facilities are capable of building, ships that are too big for the planet's infrastructure don't show up. Without building any ship-building infrastructure you can build only Frigates or below. To build a cruiser you will need to have constructed a Basic Systems Module, Space Environment Module, and a Matter Conversion Module on that planet.

3. If by defense base you mean a Beam Base, Missle Base or Space Super Fighter Base or Planetary Shield Generator, those are ground-based defenses. You can see them under the planet's Military Info Tab at the top right. If you mean orbitals, those show up on the same Miliary Info Tab both as a total count in the upper right and under the Space Forces sub-tab. Orbitals do not show up on the system display's list of forces.

4. Import/Export of food & minerals is automatic unless the planet is being blockaded by hostile forces. If your total empire is running a deficit of food there's nothing to import.

5. Not sure, unless the opposing force is the New Orions (abbreviated NO on the forums here, not to be confused with the Nommo). The NO will of course kick your tail early in the game. Its also possible that you have just fallen way behind in tech research. What turn are you on? Check the status tab on the victory screen, set the pulldown to Technology Level and see where you stand (or lie).

Tampa_Gamer

03-07-2005, 07:32 PM

Fantastic Thread!!

Couple of questions:

(1) Post patch 1.25 and Burhics patch is *visibility* of each ship still limited by the longest DF weapon?

(2) My view after reading this thread is that we still don't know whether PD works correct or not so most people hedge and put 50% PD 50% Light mounts?

(3) I turn off the ECO AI and set my own DEAs upon colonization. Is there anything that I am missing out on (i.e. I assume the Vicoroy still builds all of the regional buildings).

(4) My view after readin this thread, is that you cannot put more than 1 *army* into a TF, correct? So having a two "unit" division (unless for occupational force reasons) is a waste since even one troop pod carries 4 "units" correct?

Thanks
-TG

eastwind

03-07-2005, 07:59 PM

Originally posted by Tampa_Gamer
Fantastic Thread!!

Couple of questions:

(1) Post patch 1.25 and Burhics patch is *visibility* of each ship still limited by the longest DF weapon?

(2) My view after reading this thread is that we still don't know whether PD works correct or not so most people hedge and put 50% PD 50% Light mounts?

(3) I turn off the ECO AI and set my own DEAs upon colonization. Is there anything that I am missing out on (i.e. I assume the Vicoroy still builds all of the regional buildings).

(4) My view after readin this thread, is that you cannot put more than 1 *army* into a TF, correct? So having a two "unit" division (unless for occupational force reasons) is a waste since even one troop pod carries 4 "units" correct?

Thanks
-TG

1) AFIK the visibility was never limited by the longest direct fire weapon; that was an idea that was later discounted. I think. I still tend to go for a single long DF weapon in my PD ships anyhow. I no longer do it in CV or IF ships. LR ships of course, and I don't build SR ships. With my battle style I need the longest DF weapons in my LR ships anyway.

2) Again AFIK PD works correctly, but even so you sometimes get cold-cocked by IF salvos. Happens more to the AI, so I've adjusted my play style. I put very slow system engines on all ships and mostly deploy fighters and IF ships from a long way away, out of enemy visibility. So I don't get attacked by missles much. When I do, my PD nearly always takes them out. There's some point in layering PD anyhow, either using different weapons with different ranges or different mounts. It avoids having all your weapons fire at once and leave you naked while they cycle.

3) On at least some planets I set all my DEAs on colonization, and I leave the planetary econ AI on. AFIK he respects your planned DEAs and won't change what you laid out. If you're missing anything it's the planetary econ AI's adjustment of tax rates. I lock all my military build queues and leave the infrastructure queue for Roy to play with.

4) True, I never use anything other than armies of ground troops for invasion. I have deployed divisions on already occupied planets, but that's without using a transport. And I only do that if I take off the invading army too soon while the population is still adjusting to their new masters.

I'm not the biggest expert here, so others might correct me. I just have time to post these days.

Tampa_Gamer

03-14-2005, 09:15 AM

Thanks for the answers eastwind!

Couple of additional questions:

(1) As I said, I like to choose the DEAs on all new/acquired planets. Historically, I had thought it was bad to put two heavy population DEAs in the same region (i.e. Industry). However, I read several posts that indicate the population "travels" to work and region population does not mean anything except to effect the efficiency based on the race present. Is it OK to put two industry DEAs in the same region?

(2) In a couple of instances I have seen a 3rd Mining DEA popup in a region where there were already two. What causes this? Anyway to control the "3rd" DEA? Does it only happen where the region already has two identical DEAs?

(3) Since the race populating a particular region has such a significant effect on the efficiencies, etc. what are the strategies for getting a particular race to be dominant in that region. In one instance, I had a planet that was perfect for a magnate race, so I set the "migration policy" to that planet, assuming that humans would not go to it since it was Red 2 to them (vs. sweet for the magnate race). Went back to check it a few turns later and humans had migrated to every region…

(4) What is the best way to take-over a magnate race planet other than sending a colony/outpost, setting the migration policy and hoping for the best?

Thanks in advance,

TG

The Wagster

03-14-2005, 11:34 AM

Originally posted by Tampa_Gamer
Thanks for the answers eastwind!

Couple of additional questions:

(1) As I said, I like to choose the DEAs on all new/acquired planets. Historically, I had thought it was bad to put two heavy population DEAs in the same region (i.e. Industry). However, I read several posts that indicate the population "travels" to work and region population does not mean anything except to effect the efficiency based on the race present. Is it OK to put two industry DEAs in the same region?

I quite often put 2 industry DEAs in some regions. Quite often in plains, occasionly in the middle territory but never (or very rarely) in mountainous terrain. I've got no idea if that's an efficient way of doing it though:rolleyes::D

(2) In a couple of instances I have seen a 3rd Mining DEA popup in a region where there were already two. What causes this? Anyway to control the "3rd" DEA? Does it only happen where the region already has two identical DEAs?

Hmmm, sounds like a bug actually. I'm sure the game only allows two DEA per region.

(3) Since the race populating a particular region has such a significant effect on the efficiencies, etc. what are the strategies for getting a particular race to be dominant in that region. In one instance, I had a planet that was perfect for a magnate race, so I set the "migration policy" to that planet, assuming that humans would not go to it since it was Red 2 to them (vs. sweet for the magnate race). Went back to check it a few turns later and humans had migrated to every region…

The problem with forced migration (in these circumstances) is that it encourages all races to go to that planet even if it's red 2. If you have lots of planets with humans and one newly colonised magnate planet you will have a huge number of humans subjects per magnate subject so a much higher ratio of humans will migrate even though the planet is rubbish for them. In those sort of circumstances I don't put migration onto the world I want the magnates to be on but keep an eye on the planet to make sure the population increases from normal population growth and natural migration. Remember people will migrate without the migrate function turned on, just at a slower rate. If the planed you're trying to populate is green or better for the magnate then natural migration could be quite high anyway.

(4) What is the best way to take-over a magnate race planet other than sending a colony/outpost, setting the migration policy and hoping for the best?

The only way to take over a magnate planet is to get the population of your subjects (your race) up to 1000. This can either be done by landing an outpost ship and migrating, landing a 1 pod colony ship and migrating or landing a multiple pod colony ship that lands 1000 population in one go. When designing a colony ship you can add more than 1 colony pod. Each colony pod will land 1000 colonists on a green or better planet, 500 on a yellow planet and just 250 on a red planet. Therefore if the magnate planet is yellow then a two pod colony ship will give you immediate control of the planet, four pods for a red planet. Alternatively you could land two or four single pod colony ships on the magnate planet, this is easier to achieve early game before the large hull sizes are available but I find migration is the best method for magnate capturing.

eastwind

03-14-2005, 12:45 PM

Agree with everything wagster said. Just to add my US$0.02:

Originally posted by Tampa_Gamer
Thanks for the answers eastwind!

Couple of additional questions:

(1) As I said, I like to choose the DEAs on all new/acquired planets. Historically, I had thought it was bad to put two heavy population DEAs in the same region (i.e. Industry). However, I read several posts that indicate the population "travels" to work and region population does not mean anything except to effect the efficiency based on the race present. Is it OK to put two industry DEAs in the same region?

Rightly or wrongly, I have never worried about population when allocating deas. I always thought the region itself was more important. Plains give +1 to farming and -1 to mining; moutains give +1 to mining and -1 to farming. Broken gives 0 and 0. So I first look for great farming regions. I can never remember this table, so I have it written down:

Toxic 0
Hostile 0
Barren 0.5
Subsistence 1
Hard Scrabble 2
Arable 3
Fertile 5
Alluvial 8
Lush 12

The +1 from the geography is on the same scale as the fertility values, I believe, so farming in Subsistence mountains would be useless. I look for plains that are Arable or better. If there aren't any then I consider importing all the food, which is a risk if you get blockaded, but less so if the planet is deep in your interior and you're "backfilling" after having established a region of space as your own.

I don't put mining on planets that are VP or P, and I put little on planets that are Avg, preferring to specialize. Some people really try to make each planet self-sufficient, which is better if you're going to be blockaded a lot, but less efficient on an empire basis.

The regions that are left get industry. I do try to get a minimum amount of industry (2-3) on each planet, otherwise you can't build the upgrades to the farming or mining. I want exactly 1 government on every planet and one military and one rec dea per system. Those also go in the leftover spots. I prefer to have my government in the toxic plains regions with the hostile plants. :egrin: Obviously if there's anything that gives a bonus to rec's that's where that would go.

I guess I left out research. Funny that. In my current game I've customized the race for superior research and original creativity and I don't seem to need to plant very many research deas at all -- the research per pop that I get is keeping me ahead. On turn 103 I'm at avg tech level 20, the NO are at 23 and the best of the rest is at 17 and falling further behind. On many planets I have no research deas, on others just 2, both together in a region.

When it comes to population, my goal is to have heterogenous planets (all one race). So I don't use migration. I use the patch that Bhuric did that shows race inside a colony ship and micromanage the creation of colonies. More on this below.

(2) In a couple of instances I have seen a 3rd Mining DEA popup in a region where there were already two. What causes this? Anyway to control the "3rd" DEA? Does it only happen where the region already has two identical DEAs?

Never seen it, I suspect a bug. If it doesn't cause your game to just blow grits all over the place then my guess is its probably a GUI bug -- that is, its not really there as far as the code is concerned, just a display artifact.

(3) Since the race populating a particular region has such a significant effect on the efficiencies, etc. what are the strategies for getting a particular race to be dominant in that region. In one instance, I had a planet that was perfect for a magnate race, so I set the "migration policy" to that planet, assuming that humans would not go to it since it was Red 2 to them (vs. sweet for the magnate race). Went back to check it a few turns later and humans had migrated to every region…

Like I said, I have no idea what these effects are, other than at a planet level -- you want to put races on planets that are green for them. With migration there are a number of factors considered. If no planets have migration set on, then migration still may occur when a planet gets full up to bursting with people, especially magnates. They pick a planet that is SS or green for them and just go for it. That's all good, mostly those will be uni-racial, unless the planet is just good for everyone and you're bursting at all seams with people. With forced migration, where you mark the planet for migration, I think that redirects everyone who would normally migrate anywhere to go to that planet, so its going to depend on which planets are overpopulated, not the desireability of the destination. So I don't use it.

(4) What is the best way to take-over a magnate race planet other than sending a colony/outpost, setting the migration policy and hoping for the best?

Thanks in advance,

The best way is to colonize it with a colony ship built on another planet where that magnate race is a majority of the population. Then the new magnate planet is 100% and you suffer no unrest due to racial tensions. For the first planet of a particular race of magnates, you put down whichever of your peoples has the best habitability w.r.t. that planet.

The wagster correctly points out that you can build multi-pod colony ships, but that's not an option until you get up to the larger hulls. In the meantime, you can use multiple colony ships to get a planet to 1000 pop if you're impatient. A colony ship carries a certain number of people, more than 1000, maybe 1200, i forget. If you put it down on a yellow or red planet, some of them die immediately. The number that die depends on the habitability. If you want to send multiple colony ships to a planet and guarantee its over 1000 after the die off you need to send 2 pods to yellow planets and 3 to red. On a yellow 1 planet one pod will leave you with about 800 people, so those aren't too terrible to just let grow to 1000, doesn't seem worth another colony ship to me. An outpost followed by a colony ship has advantages too -- that would start you off at 850 people and give you a pre-built military dea on the planet, hopefully not in the one alluvial plain region. But this plant and wait approach works poorly for slow-reproducing races. And on red 2's if the race reproduces slowly enough it can actually die out rather than turn into a colony. You can also send 2 pods to a red 1 then wait for it to grow, or send 1 pod and then by the time you get the second one there it puts it over the top. Multi-pod colony ships are cheaper than multiple colony ships, but you need a battle cruiser for 2-pod and a battleship for 3-pods. Also very late in the game you can build a destroyer 1-pod colony ship. The better the drives the less space required, and you set the system speed to 1 to get the maximum space for pods.
TG

maybe that's a dime's worth.

eastwind

03-17-2005, 07:32 PM

Originally posted by eastwind

// Format - RACE[species][race] // Race Ask Respond
RACE00 // Human Reason Polite
RACE01 // Evon Beg Humble
RACE02 // Psilon reason ?
RACE10 // Imsaeis Declare ?
RACE11 // Eoladi Reason Polite
RACE20 // Silicoid State Formal
RACE30 // Meklar Declare Cold
RACE31 // Cynoid State Formal
RACE40 // Trilarian Reason Polite
RACE41 // Nommo Reason ?
RACE50 // Ithkul ? ?
RACE60 // Klackon Argue Cool
RACE61 // Tachidi Declare ?
RACE70 // Sakkra Demand Insult
RACE71 // Raas Reason Polite
RACE72 // Grendarl Reason Polite

I'm still chewing over this diplomacy emphasis stuff. I can't find anything in the .txt files that would confirm the above info. It does seem to work, more or less. I'm having trouble getting good CB with the Evon, perhaps because I'm always begging? In one of the old threads on this someone explained that speaking at the ends of the spectrum (beg, demand), increases your chance of success with that enounter but tends to lower relations over the long term. There is some stuff in the txt tables to make that look correct. So if you really do need to beg the Evon, that kind of creates a catch-22. Maybe the best policy is to ignore them until they come to you, but then you have to be humble, which probably doesn't help either in the long run.

I can't find any indication that giving away an LFG tech is any different from giving away a Class 1 shield tech, or that giving away 3 techs at once is any better than giving away one. Same for planets. Anyone have any theories on this? It seems like fun to give away techs the AIs will get eventually anyway. If you give battleship but not the corresponding shipbuilding tech it doesn't do the AI much good but still counts as a tech.

pedxing

03-17-2005, 07:50 PM

if it's hardcoded into the exe, it will matter for people who design their own races...

eastwind

03-17-2005, 09:46 PM

One question I have is of the two CB numbers, (top, bottom), which is which?

One is supposed to be my people's attitude toward them, the other is their people's attitude toward me, right? And these numbers are a better indication of whether a proposal will be accepted than the current relations, right?

pedxing

03-17-2005, 10:10 PM

the top one is how you view them (useless info),
the bottom is how they view you (very important).

a right-click will remind one, if one forgets. ;)

eastwind

03-17-2005, 10:22 PM

:o :up:

I looked all over for that, never thought to try right click on a pop-up...

eastwind

03-19-2005, 03:54 AM

Well I just can't figure out this Casus Belli stuff. The Sakkra have CB of (128, 24) with me, and its been pretty stable. Over the last 7 turns the second number has been 22, 25, 26*, 26, 25, 23, 24 and I got a "relations improving" message on the 26* turn. I thought CB was supposed to trend toward current relations? Or is it the other way around?? Current relations with these guys has been way up there for a long time, its currently 192.

So this turn the ambassador delivers this message:

"I would be honored if you would listen, Eoladi. It is time for our civilizations to join forces. We want you to know that your kind policies toward us have always been appreciated. In these coming cycles we see a need once again from our great friends, and so ask you to enter into a full military alliance between our civilizations if you find it worthy. Please know that we will reciprocate with the kindness that you show us." says the Sakkra ambassador, murmuring.

This from the Sakkra? :eek:

And with a CB of 24??

Quick, somebody push that lizard out into the sun!

Well, I accepted in the most insulting way, we'll see what happens. There aren't really any war issues that I see that would cause him to want this, I'm already at war with all his enemies. I haven't given him anything lately, so I just don't know where this comes from. Computer rolled a double-zero I guess.

On the other hand, my long-time ally the Raas have been getting progressively more annoyed with me, and nothing helps. Even though their CB to me is 40-ish, and current relations are 194, a few turns ago they refused an increased economic TA! I simply stopped talking to them, and after a few turns I got a +1 on the CB, its gone 45, 43, 41, 39, 38, 39 so maybe its bottomed out.

It does look like being too nice can have a backlash effect.

Should I find some CB thread to post this in?

edit: I started a thread on this here. (http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=457586)

Tampa_Gamer

03-21-2005, 09:38 AM

Thanks for the help Wagster and Eastwind.

Another couple of questions:

(1) Despite reusing several of my Rhea troops in a couple of different landings/planet battles, I have yet to see one become anything more than "experienced". Is the "Crack" and "Elite" status of troop levels gone? How does one get to be that high?

(2) I would like several frontier/border colonies to concentrate on one industry DEA first so that they can then build a missle defense system. However, despite countless tweaking with my dev plans and abstaining from plotting all the deas, they still start multiple DEAs at once so that the avg time for completion is 30+ turns (rather than getting an industry DEA in 12). Anyway to force them to concentrate on one DEA at a time?

(3) I just got the tech where gravity penalty is negated by one (mass synthesizer?) Anyway, it is added to the list of projects for all planets, rather than those with just high/low. I assume there is no benefit to building the project on planets which have homogenous pop. that finds the gravity "moderate", correct?

As always, thanks for your replies.
-TG

eastwind

03-21-2005, 03:20 PM

(1)

I've had veteran units, but never crack or elite. I think I read somewhere that leaving them on the planet for a while after invasion helps to increase their experience. I don't know what "a while" is. I never disband the invasion force until the planet has gotten over its newly-conquored unrest, and often a while after that because I think the system is not safe from re-invasion or because I forget until I run out of troops.

The type of troops might be a factor, with only certain units able to achieve the higher status. I poked around a little in the spreadsheets to see if I could find anything related to experience and didn't see anything. There are some tables with Crack and Elite still in them, but that proves nothing.

(2) dunno

(3)

Different races like different gravity, I hope that improvement isn't built on planets that already have the gravity preferred by the majority race. I got misled by the PlanetaryGravityModifier table in the habitability spreadsheet, then someone told me that table isn't used in 1.2.5 (I think its now hardcoded). What you have to look at is the color of the gravity word. The AI considers gravity as more important even than habitability when picking new planets to colonize.

Zyphyr

03-22-2005, 03:45 AM

Originally posted by Tampa_Gamer
Thanks for the help Wagster and Eastwind.

Another couple of questions:

(1) Despite reusing several of my Rhea troops in a couple of different landings/planet battles, I have yet to see one become anything more than "experienced". Is the "Crack" and "Elite" status of troop levels gone? How does one get to be that high?

(2) I would like several frontier/border colonies to concentrate on one industry DEA first so that they can then build a missle defense system. However, despite countless tweaking with my dev plans and abstaining from plotting all the deas, they still start multiple DEAs at once so that the avg time for completion is 30+ turns (rather than getting an industry DEA in 12). Anyway to force them to concentrate on one DEA at a time?

-TG

1)Each turn the unit is in combat it has a chance of its rating go up. A small chance. If you want to get high quality troops, you will (from a practical standpoint) need to have large numbers of multi-turn invasions. If you are winning each planet on the turn you land the troops, do not expect to have your troops gain levels.

As for eastwind's mention of leaving troops on the planet to gain levels, that only works under certain circumstances. The troops in a Garrison force slowly move towards the level of the unit that contains them. In other words, if you have a Veteran Army siting on a planet, the troops with that army will very slowly (10-20 turns to move up one level if I remember correctly - I don't really use that method so I don't remember exactly) move towards Crack status. Anyone under Veteran will move up, and any Crack/Elite troops will eventually drop down to Veteran (with a stop at Crack for the elites). The Drop in quality for troops that are to high is faster than the increase for ones that are too low, btw.

So, if you want to use the 'leave them on the planet' method, you have to first have enough higher quality troops to make a higher level unit that you can then pad out with lower regular units, and then you have to tie up those high quality troops for an extended time.

2)Despite multiple DEAs being listed, only 1 of them is actually being built. Any other DEA listed is just queued up. You are having long cnstruction times on the initial DEA because of a combination of :
A)Low population
b)Generally low funds
III)Possibly a high HFoG

Between those, getting any construction done on that industry is expensive and slow.

gaming_geek

03-30-2005, 01:45 AM

This is a different question altogether, i've been playing MOO3 for quite some time (about 1 year and a bit, which is because it was like $90 AUS and then i saw it going for only $20 AUS so i thought why not, as used to play MOO1 and MOO2 years before) anyhow i always have problems where all the other races always get elected and win at about turn 290, which is a pain in the ass, because i used to enjoy playing really long games in MOO2, where you would be able to advance in tech to like hyperadvanced level 2-3 and higher. But now i always find that no matter what, the other races always take the senate and leave me really pissed off, you see i play like this:

Human (standard) - Parlmentry gov.
Large cluster/spiral
Easy or average
star lanes- medium lots
speicals - average
6-15 Opponents
Space combat - Unlimited
etc.

I progress well throughout (i.e. colonize well suited planets usually about 30 (another prob.), build lots of defence and shipbuilding modules on all planets so they can build the largest class avaible, 30 system ships per system, Battlestation-class forts LR,IF and point def. for each planet, play "Honourably", redesign ships often (with ECM and ECCM), build lots of armadas of LR ships with strong point defense and recon with good sensors and ECM, ECCM, make strong diplomatic ties with all other speices (where possible), etc.

But its always the same :mad: I LOSE, because of the Senate elections even though i always vote New Orions!

Please help:cry: