Newbs: Ask gameplay questions, get answers

[pedxing]

yep. moon sizes.

[Zyphyr]

Originally posted by alablaster
i can't believe i've played so long and still haven't figured out how these numbers work.

the planet size field in the planet display screen shows a number with a slash, followed by 0-x numbers separated by commas. an example is one of my current planets Primodius III. it shows a size of 11/2,4,2,5,4. another one is Primodius IV, showing 8/3,1.

how do these numbers work?

Those extra numbers are the sizes of the moons, and as to what they do - they improve the maximum population but that is already factored into what is shown.

[Tarhalindur]

Moons also increase the number of orbitals you (or, more often, the AI) can and/or will stick around a planet.

A planet with no moons can support 3 orbitals.

A planet with 5 moons can support 18 orbitals.

AI planets with 18 orbitals get very annoying after a while.

[alablaster]

thanks for the info - this helps a bit. let me push the envelope and go for more detail.

if i have a planet with no moons, i will see something on the order of one of my current planets, with size numbers that read 5/4. the five indicates how many regions i can put deas into - in the example, i can fit 10 deas on it, 2 for each region. what does the 4 mean? and in all cases that i can find, if there are no commas in the number after the slash, the number after the slash is at least close to the number before the slash. so i think to myself that maybe this means the planet might have spawned with only 4 regions, but some behind-the-scenes factor bumped it up - possibly a lucky roll regarding fertility or orbit or some such. but this invented logic breaks down when i see planets like the one mentioned in my previous post, where the numbers read 8/3,1. my faulty logic tells me that if i add all the numbers after the slash up, i should get something at least close to the number before the slash.

i would almost think the number immediately following the slash is the number of regions on the planet, with all numbers following commas indicating the number of regions on each moon. but this doens't add up. unless all numbers after a slash pertain to moon sizes? that doesn't seem logical to me - since every planet size number has a slash, that would mean every planet has at least one moon. and if so, the 5/4 would indicate that the main planet holds one region, and the moon the other 4, adding up to 5. which leads me to believe that only numbers after commas pertain to moons. but then what do i make of the 8/3,1? i'm definitely missing something here.

in the 8/3,1 example:

8 = the total number of regions i can stuff deas into for the planet and all its moons
3 = ?
1 = ?

in the 5/4 example:

5 = the total number of regions i can stuff deas into for the planet and all its moons
4 = ?

[pedxing]

no, the numbers after the slash should be moon sizes.

they don't add DEA slots, but they should increase max population.

re-open your game, and go back and look at that 5/4 planet again, in the system view.

if it doesn't have a big moon (almost as big as the planet), something is wrong.

and if indeed there is no moon, do you have web space where you can put a save that we can check out?

[alablaster]

i see now. you're right, of course - not all of my planet sizes have slashes. i thought they did. i wasn't paying close enough attention. and the planet with the 5/4 does have a moon in its system view that is almost as large as the planet. what threw me was the fact that although those numbers pertain to moon size, they do not add any regions. so if i understand correctly, in the 8/3,1 example above

8 = the total number of regions i can stuff deas into for the planet
3 = size of moon 1; extra population, no additional regions or deas
1 = size of moon 2; extra population, no additional regions or deas

thank you for the info! but now i'm curious: what are the units of the numbers 3 and 1? millions of people?

[Tarhalindur]

They're the moon size, handled the same way as planet size.

BTW, moons also supposedly increase the bioharvesting and mining efficiency of the planet ("supposedly" because that info comes from a not-always-reliable source: the manual).

IMO, it would have been cool it the moon DEA's had been added to the planetary ones.

[redrick]

Hi,

I try to set up "choke points" with a sufficiently powerful fleet posted at systems past which other empires might enter my space and colonize planets in my systems. But sometimes they go right past me- I'll see another empire's recon or colony ship a turn past my "choke point" and on it's way to my next system. How can that happen without my having a chance to intercept? And how can I stop this from happening?

Many thanks, -Rick

[Specialist290]

The ship may have already left the "chokepoint" system and been in the starlane when you got there. I think you can only see ships in starlanes when you have a colony or a ship w/ scanners in the system, and you can't see if you're "passing" any ships in a starlane, either.

Or if neither of those is a problem, it might be a case of the AI going "offroad," though I'm not sure if the AI actually does that.

[elizibar]

Originally posted by Specialist290
Or if neither of those is a problem, it might be a case of the AI going "offroad," though I'm not sure if the AI actually does that.

Someone made a mod where travel via starlines was really, really slow compared to off-road and the AI never chose off-road, so I think it's pretty doubtful that they do that.

[redrick]

Hi,

Is it true that you only need ECCM and dectectors like the X-Ray Transponder on one (surviving) ship in your fleet to be effective in battle?

Also, related to my above posts re enemys getting past me, will either or both of these systems allow my ships parked at a planet to detect and intercept enemy ships passing by?

Thanks, -Rick

[JosEPh]

Originally posted by redrick
Hi,

I try to set up "choke points" with a sufficiently powerful fleet posted at systems past which other empires might enter my space and colonize planets in my systems. But sometimes they go right past me- I'll see another empire's recon or colony ship a turn past my "choke point" and on it's way to my next system. How can that happen without my having a chance to intercept? And how can I stop this from happening?

Many thanks, -Rick

Any AI that you have a Non Aggression Pact or greater with Will do as you have described. By agreeing to the pact you have given permission for their fleets to pass by/thru at will any time they wish.

If it is AI that you don't have a NAP or better with it generally occurs when the AI brings more ships than the default 180 ship TF limit. 180 stay to fight or not and the excess moves on. To stop this you must have TFs in 2 deep systems (chokepoint and any systems behind the choke linked by a Starlane.

JosEPh:)

[redrick]

I've taken out a Guardian and was about to colonize the planet but now I've heard you have to bombard the planet in order to get your 20% chance at an X. Is this so? If so, anything I can do now that the Guardian itself is history? I'm holding off colonizing 'til I hear from someone who knows.

Many thanks,

[pedxing]

Originally posted by redrick
I've taken out a Guardian and was about to colonize the planet but now I've heard you have to bombard the planet in order to get your 20% chance at an X. Is this so?nope.

there's nobody there for you to bombard, but the game lets you do it anyway, due to some quirk.

no relation to the Xs, as far as i know.

[redrick]

Hi,

How are enemy AI ships designed so far as shields and armor? Do they have a preferred choice between LF, IF, SR, & Carriers? Or do they use all the same choices your AI makes if you use Auto-build? Also do they build TFs the same way the player's Auto-build would?

And could someone answer the same questions re the NOs?

The Guardians I know about because I took advantage of info in the Strategy forum to take out the Guardians with just 3 TFs of BC carriers armed with interceptors with armor piercing mass drivers at an earlier level than I would have thought (17). Ergo the Guardians have good armor but no shields, fast system maneuverability that makes no difference against fighters, and good PD against missiles that can be overwhelmed by large numbers of the pesky little buggers coming from all directions. And the fighter mass driver must have just about the perfect amount of range and potency for this particular enemy in the smallest space. I think.

So you gotta know your enemy in choosing weapons, mods, ships and fleet composition. So any enlightenment much appreciated, especially re NOs.

[pedxing]

AI empires use the same Autobuild as the player.

no idea about the NOs. my guess would be that they Autobuild, just using the much better tech that they have available?

for Mission mix, there was some work done recently figuring out how many differently sized hulls the AI players design for each mission. after that, it's up to the viceroy on AI worlds to decide what to build.

best thing to do to find the AI's SR/LR/IF/CV mix might be to Autorun a game to like turn 300, then go to the Shipyards/Fleets screen and see what is there?

you could also save the game at that point, and use the Multiplayer trick (pretend the game is multiplayer, and join as a different empire) to see if all races end up with the same kind of mix.

[redrick]

Thanks, pedxing, for info & I'll try that testing.

BTW re the NOs- do you know if they just have tech at the level shown on the Victory tab or do they also have Antaran tech?

Thanks again,

[Specialist290]

I think they also have Antaran tech, but I don't know for sure. Not the Anataran X's, but they do get some special techs of their own. (I think one might be called "Dyno-Mutant Victuals" or something like that.)

EDIT: Just found a link to the Antaran techs here: http://www.mithyk.com/stationprime/tech_ant.htm

Presumably the NOs have them, but again, I'm not sure.

[pedxing]

the way i thought it works is that some techs are marked Antaran, they don't appear in anybody else's tree, and the NO's start at a higher tech level.

i dunnofersure, but that's how i woulda programmed it.

i don't know if there are any Antaran techs that they don't start with, and then gain when they hit a higher level?

somebody who does know will probably turn up eventually... :noob:

[redrick]

Hi,

Does an "Open Borders Trade Agreement" mean they can pass my systems even if we have no non-aggression pact or alliance?

[pedxing]

it sure does sound like it, doesn't it?

one thing you can do is check on the Victory Screen (yes, it's a stupid place for it) and select the empire in question.

there's a little dropdown in the lower right that shows what your border policy is with that empire... Quiet Front, Defensive Front, etc.

depending on what that's set to, it will determine if an item will come up in the combat scheduler when your ships are in the same system as ships of that empire.

i think Open Borders (and probably NAP & Alliances too) lower that setting to Quiet Front.

are you worried about your "friends" "stealing" "your" planets?

[redrick]

Cool. I set everybody to defensive front. Wonder if they'll get pissed.

Originally posted by pedxing
are you worried about your "friends" "stealing" "your" planets?

I give 'em leave to try. For some odd reason they seem to get annoyed when I "liberate" "their" built-up ones. I mean really! What are "friends" for?

[pedxing]

actually, if they really are your friends, you can get more trade revenue from having them in your systems, rather than being in the next system over. i like to offer trade techs in exchanges to increase this effect...

if you still want the worlds back, but don't want to upset them, you can settle some worlds in their systems, and then trade them for the ones they settled in yours. both you and your neighbor get some terraform-ring preference diversity that way.

[redrick]

Hi,

I thought I had these pretty well figured out, but recently have seen posts directly contradicting each other as well as me.

I'm a sort of moderate newbie that's spent more time studying the game than actually playing it (I'm pretty weird in that way) so hopefully voices of experience will set me straight.

Auto-fire seemed the simplest. Good for guns intended to be used against ships, but not for PD, where you’re main worry is more targets than guns to shoot ‘em down with. But I just saw a post recommending it for PD. I suppose the question here is does the auto-fire autofire at more than one target, or just aim at the same one twice. And checking the DF chart, I see all the guns have a starting multi-fire of 1, except the Lightning Field Generator, which has a multi-fire of 5. And the LFG is supposed to be a great, if short-ranged, PD. So... Strong opinions strongly appreciated.

Continuous seems a sure thing but I think that’s deceptive. Sure you get twice the improvement to accuracy as the increase in space required. But suppose you weapon is already 90% accurate at the range it typically is used at in your battles. Is a 50% accuracy increase really going to do much? Even if your weapon were only 50% accurate, 50% of 50% added to 50% is only 75%, only an added 25%- which is the added hull space required. And if your gun is that inaccurate you should probably get yourself a different gun. Please tell me if I’ve misunderstood, misfigured, or am simply over-ruled by experience.

Enveloping: No, unless you know your enemy has weak or no armor and strong shields.

Armor piercing: No, unless you know your enemy has weak or no shields and relies on strong armor. (See my glee over armor-piercing mass driver interceptors vs. the Guardians a number of posts up.)

Again, I’ve only figured this out in my head with little experience to back it up, so newbies like me reading it shouldn’t adopt it ‘til the real experts have had a day or two to chortle over it before rolling out their DFs to shoot it down!

[redrick]

Hi,

In the combat screen when you tell an armada (or group of them) to attack an enemy, it says this orders the group to move within attack range and attack.

I assume carriers and missiles launch immediately. But what if you've got a LR ship or two in the core ring with your 9-10 carriers or IFs? Will this be enough to make the whole armada (or group of them) approach closer to the enemy?

If you don't want this, would putting the LR boats in the escort ring fix it?

[Specialist290]

Nope. Done this before (not w/ Armadas, but... well, you get the idea). Generally I take the other route--putting my IF/CV ships in my LR TFs.

[pedxing]

nope, the ships in the TF should have no effect on the behavior... it's just the TF type that determines behavior.

if you want your IF/CV ships to charge into battle, include them into your LR/SR TFs.

if that's not enough for you, you can always include missles or fighter bays on your LR/SR/PD designs.

with the Fighter Interceptor patch, having fighters on PD ships might actually make some sense?

[Lennier]

Originally posted by pedxing
i think Open Borders (and probably NAP & Alliances too) lower that setting to Quiet Front. Nope, they don't do that. The only thing I've seen that consistently gets friends to switch to Quiet Front is to get a full alliance with them.

I think OB TAs increase income/research from TAs, have a positive impact on relations, and makes it easier for spies to cross your borders from that empire. I haven't done any imperical research on this issue though.

[Jilks131]

k i was looking through this thread and saw it is a good place to ask a newb question. I was playing through some of my first games and another empire settles right by me. I send a scout and all i do is bombard the colony I think. How do i make contact with the empire thats right beside me?

[pedxing]

you have to have a full colony within two jumps of one of their full colonies. outposts (with lower case names) don't count.

[Jilks131]

thanks that has helped

[ivanichi]

Question about the Ion-Pulse Cannon

In the tech description, it says the IPC disrupts the electronics but does not damage the hull... Does it mean that it only brings down the shield (blue damage numbers appear instead of red damage numbers), and does not destroy the ship?

It doesn't seem to be the case, because when my LR task force fires the IPC, the enemy ships take red damage (the IPC has great range btw :eek:) ...

Can anyone clarify this for me?

[Lennier]

Just fluf for the description. I don't think the IPC is naturally armor piercing, and they definately destroy ships.

[ivanichi]

Why is it that whenever the AI retreats from combat, it does not retreat to the nearest star? It stays in the star it was in! But it works fine for human players

Is this a bug?

I'm using Invader Mod 5.5 btw

[MisterPlow]

Half a bug. The ships are retreating, you just don't see the orders. You should get to see their destination but you don't until they're in the star lane, if they don't get disbanded immediately.

[ivanichi]

Half a bug. The ships are retreating, you just don't see the orders. You should get to see their destination but you don't until they're in the star lane, if they don't get disbanded immediately.

Hmm it doesn't seem that way in my game. If, like you said, the ships are retreating and I should see them when they are in the starlane, I shouldn't be getting combat the very next turn right?

It's baffling that the AI attacks one of my systems, I beat them off, they retreat, then the next turn they are back again :(

Does this happen to the rest of you guys as well?

[MisterPlow]

I don't know all the details. If the enemy is swarming you with massive fleets, then you may fight the same ones for a few turns until they're all burned off. If you're fighting small groups turn after turn that's another thing; the computer does tend to send out packets.

What turn is this happening?

[ivanichi]

I don't know all the details. If the enemy is swarming you with massive fleets, then you may fight the same ones for a few turns until they're all burned off. If you're fighting small groups turn after turn that's another thing; the computer does tend to send out packets.

What turn is this happening?

It happens whenever the computer sends like 20 over task forces to my one system.. The funny thing is, every time I battle 12armada Troop task forces, and they retreat, I should only see 8 task forces left in the system to fight. But it seems that those supposedly retreating forces are still in the system...

[Zyphyr]

It happens whenever the computer sends like 20 over task forces to my one system.. The funny thing is, every time I battle 12armada Troop task forces, and they retreat, I should only see 8 task forces left in the system to fight. But it seems that those supposedly retreating forces are still in the system...

They really are doing a retreat-disband.

To prove it to yourself, use the multi-player option to load up a few turns of saves as the AI empire and have a look at the system each turn and compare it to what you were seeing from your side.

[bbutrosghali]

For some reason, my game has stopped letting me manually colonize planets. What happens is my colony ship gets to a system, I select the planet I want and switch to the "My Forces" tab. However, when I select the colony ship, I still only get the option to "Send Colony" instead of the usual "Create Colony".

Is there a reason for this? The only thing I can think of is that I'm running a food deficit, but if it's something else I'd like to be able to address it.

BTW, I'm at about turn 80, and was able to manually colonize up until about turn 60 or so. I'm running 1.2.5 with the colt's Strawberry mod.

[pedxing]

weird. maybe try in a different order?

maybe try selecting the planet after going to the forces tab, or after selecting the colony ship? (rather than selecting the planet first)

also, did you try quitting out of the game and restarting from the autosave?

[Bolo Mark 33]

Did you forget to put a colony module on your colony ship? :)

[bbutrosghali]

Did you forget to put a colony module on your colony ship? :)

How very odd. I had auto-designed a new version to upgrade the propulsion, and instead of a colony module it put in weapons instead. :o

[pedxing]

:haha: :haha: :haha:

yes, that would explain it. maybe try a bigger hull size? Light Cruiser should do it.

are you using Bhruic's Autobuild? or the default 1.2.5 autobuild?

[bbutrosghali]

:haha: :haha: :haha:

yes, that would explain it. maybe try a bigger hull size? Light Cruiser should do it.

are you using Bhruic's Autobuild? or the default 1.2.5 autobuild?

I think I must be using Bhruic's Autobuild. What are the implications?

[pedxing]

I think I must be using Bhruic's Autobuild. What are the implications?well, if i remember correctly, the autobuild.txt for Bhruic's autobuilder specifies that unused space on Colony ships (after as many colony modules are put in as will fit) will be filled up with some defensive weapons, which is nice.

so probably there wasn't room to put any colony modules in, and then the remaining space went to weapons, which explains the design you ended up with.

a good check would be to autobuild a Colony ship on the same size hull, then pull all the weapons off, and see if there's room to put a colony module on.

also, see what the minimum hull size is you need to use to get a colony module to be included by the autobuild.

light cruiser should be the right size. if not, then something is actually wrong.

[bbutrosghali]

I haven't changed hull size from default, which means Light Cruiser. I autobuilt a new LC colony ship, and this time it had no weapons but did have a colony pod. But it's entirely possible that some space-saving improvement came through in the interim. I think what may have happened last time is I hit the stealth button and it included an ECM I, leaving insufficient space for a colony pod. Anyway, everything's cool now - thanks for your input. I'll certainly make sure to do a more careful once-over on the autobuild results from now on.

[Baa]

Edit: OK found some answers, but not to everything... yet.
with 1.2.5+Vanilla,

Do we still need to put at least 1 pd missile on all TF's to work around the pd bug? Will other missile chassis (eg light missile) work? Can we use interceptors instead?

Are the sensor range factors for cloaking devices typos? It seems that their factors are far, far higher than ecm devices of similar space and cost.

Thanks.

[tenaka23]

I've had the game for a while but when someone first gave it to me I looked at the manual and didn't have a clue what I was supposed to do so I didn't install/play it. Its like giving someone a spanish dictionary and then saying "go to mexico and talk to people". I also didn't play the first two. Now I have started and have been playing for about a week, fun but I'm probably doing most things "wrong". I keep starting a new game when I realize I've been all wrong about a concept so I haven't gone extremely deep in a game (not past 100 turns). I've got a few general questions, that I'd prefer more general answers to. Most of it is shipbuilding and combat related. I know most or all of this is covered in other threads but the answers go 438 levels farther into detail than I am looking for.

1. Is there anything different I should look for in attack ships VS defensive ships? Seems to me the point of both is to blow the other guy up before he blows me up. I don't need warp to defend a system but thats all I see. If something helps me blow ships up when I attack won't the same thing help me blow ships up when I defend?

2. Whats the point of all the ship clasifications? I can put anything I want on a ship and call it recon. I know I need certain types to make the different waves because thats how the system is set up but aside from that...

3. What are the advantages/disadvantages of the different weapon types? I can see how much they cost, space they take, power, range etc but what do I get by doing 50 every 2 seconds with a fighter vs 50 every 2 seconds with a quark cannon vs 50 every 2 seconds with a laser... I've just been going with the maximum power/space to maximize how hard a ship can hit.

4. Combat in general. What should I make sure to do? I've been just randomly choosing a few of my ships to randomly take attack another. Playing on easy so its all 10 against 1 or 2, haven't needed 'tactics' yet.

5. Troops. So i take 30 troops with a strength of 250 and invade a planet with 5 troops with a strength of 30. All of my troops die and none of theirs do. What am I doing wrong?

6. Bombardment. If I want to take over a planet with as much of its industry intact as I can, is the only use to get rid of the defensive systems (missle bases, etc)? Should I not bombard at all planets that do not have those?

7. What am I getting when I make a research trade pact? There aren't any messages saying I've received technologies or research points. If I am more advanced am I basically just giving my research away for free?

8. I've been specializing planets in the following way:
All have at least 1 industry and 1 research
1 govt per star system
Mineral rich planets are full of mines where appropriate, fill in farms in good farmig land and the rest research
Small Mineral poor planets do farming and research
Large mineral poor planets are loaded with industry (big planets can make big ships, small ones cant)
Good or not good? (why if not good)
How many military/recreation should I use? 1 per planet? 1 per system? More? less?

9. Any advice on which race(s) are good for going for which victory types (other than 47 pages of mathmatical comparasins of the different settings of each race)?

Thanks.

[Specialist290]

I've had the game for a while but when someone first gave it to me I looked at the manual and didn't have a clue what I was supposed to do so I didn't install/play it. Its like giving someone a spanish dictionary and then saying "go to mexico and talk to people". I also didn't play the first two. Now I have started and have been playing for about a week, fun but I'm probably doing most things "wrong". I keep starting a new game when I realize I've been all wrong about a concept so I haven't gone extremely deep in a game (not past 100 turns). I've got a few general questions, that I'd prefer more general answers to. Most of it is shipbuilding and combat related. I know most or all of this is covered in other threads but the answers go 438 levels farther into detail than I am looking for.

Ah, the manual. Tells you everything except what you actually need to know. I know that feeling.

1. Is there anything different I should look for in attack ships VS defensive ships? Seems to me the point of both is to blow the other guy up before he blows me up. I don't need warp to defend a system but thats all I see. If something helps me blow ships up when I attack won't the same thing help me blow ships up when I defend?

Not really. One key factor, though, is that system ships have a bit more extra room than starships, both from larger hulls and from space not being used for warp engines.

2. Whats the point of all the ship clasifications? I can put anything I want on a ship and call it recon. I know I need certain types to make the different waves because thats how the system is set up but aside from that...

Basically the type of ship you designate determines what sort of TF it will go into and where it goes in the TF. The type of TF determines how that TF operates in combat (LR and SR TFs will attempt to close w/ the enemy, while IF, CV, and Recon TFs will try to evade). You can put, say, IF and CV ships in an LR TF, and still be able to launch missiles and fighters from them. I just think of them as "support" ships for my LR vessels.

3. What are the advantages/disadvantages of the different weapon types? I can see how much they cost, space they take, power, range etc but what do I get by doing 50 every 2 seconds with a fighter vs 50 every 2 seconds with a quark cannon vs 50 every 2 seconds with a laser... I've just been going with the maximum power/space to maximize how hard a ship can hit.

Assuming you're talking about Direct Fire weapons, then from what I've heard or seemed to observe...

Beam-type weapons (Lasers, Hard Beams, etc.) are your middle-of-the-road weapons: fairly accurate, do a reasonable amount of damage, and, from what I've seen, take up the least amount of space per mount compared to the others. Fairly solid all-around.

Projectile-type weapons (Mass Drivers, Rail Guns) have fairly long ranges, and their damage doesn't reduce w/ distance (i.e. they always do their max. potential damage when they hit), but they only have a base 50% accuracy.

Plasma-type weapons (Fusion Cannon) are short-ranged, but do more damage than your Beam weapons. However, they have a fairly long interval between shots.

Particle-type weapons (Quark Cannon) are the opposite of Plasma-types: They have longer ranges but do less average damage per hit than Beam weapons.

4. Combat in general. What should I make sure to do? I've been just randomly choosing a few of my ships to randomly take attack another. Playing on easy so its all 10 against 1 or 2, haven't needed 'tactics' yet.

Always try to keep your fleets as technologically superior as possible (faster engines, better shields, superior weapons, etc.). You can continue to use "obsolete" ships agianst a foe who doesn't have that much tech.

Try not to divide your fleets at all. This is why I design almost all of my TFs as LR TFs and just use IF/CV designs to "fill in the gaps," as, like I mentioned before, IF/CV TFs tend to prefer to keep out of the enemy's firing range.

5. Troops. So i take 30 troops with a strength of 250 and invade a planet with 5 troops with a strength of 30. All of my troops die and none of theirs do. What am I doing wrong?

Could be a number of things. It might be that you're using the "wrong" species for your ground assaults (habitability and gravity has an effect on ground combat). You could have inferior weapons / armor. You might be fighting in the wrong environment (Underwater, Mountains, Atmosphere, etc.; seems to be mostly luck of the draw). You might even have used the "wrong" battle plan / intensity level (if you keep on reusing the same plans over and over, the AI does catch on).

6. Bombardment. If I want to take over a planet with as much of its industry intact as I can, is the only use to get rid of the defensive systems (missle bases, etc)? Should I not bombard at all planets that do not have those?

You eliminate the ground defenses in a regular Space Combat Phase; you don't need to bombard the planet in the Bombardment / Land Troops Phase to do that. Also, orbital bombardment seems to be fairly useless in eliminating ground troops (except Militia, who I think are determined by the population). Depending on your Collateral Damage settings, I think some buildings may be destroyed during ground combat, but it's easier to destroy them through orbital attack.

7. What am I getting when I make a research trade pact? There aren't any messages saying I've received technologies or research points. If I am more advanced am I basically just giving my research away for free?

I think a Research TA just decreases the "cost" of RP for both races. Not really sure myself.

8. I've been specializing planets in the following way:
All have at least 1 industry and 1 research
1 govt per star system
Mineral rich planets are full of mines where appropriate, fill in farms in good farmig land and the rest research
Small Mineral poor planets do farming and research
Large mineral poor planets are loaded with industry (big planets can make big ships, small ones cant)
Good or not good? (why if not good)
How many military/recreation should I use? 1 per planet? 1 per system? More? less?

Sounds fairly good, although I'm not really a good judge of DevPlans or zoning strategies. You may want to put one Gov DEA on your Large Mineral Poors, since they give a bonus to Industrial production.

9. Any advice on which race(s) are good for going for which victory types (other than 47 pages of mathmatical comparasins of the different settings of each race)?

Thanks.

In general, Humanoids seem to be good for Senate victory and Lizards for conquest. Any good science race would be good for an X Victory. Beyond that, I couldn't really tell you.

BTW, welcome to the forums :)

[JosEPh]

Hello tenaka23

Specialist290 has given you some well rounded answers. Basically though it will all boil down to How You like to play. We have an acronym for it; DOYPS (depends on your play style).

One of the best pieces of advice I can give you is to play a game to the finish no matter how many mistakes you *think* you may make. You will learn more that way than by constantly re-starting. My 1st 1.2.5 game lasted over 6 months, it was a Sole Survivor in a Huge 3-arm Galaxy with 5 AI opponents plus of course the New Orions(antarans). Some of my postings about that game have been collected and saved in a *Stickied* thread in the General Discussion forum. Caldaar gathered the postings because the questions and answers I recieved are representative of almost everyone who starts playing this game. I got into big trouble around turn 237 and for the next 300 turns had myriad questions. It was an Easy difficulty level game but it hooked me on Moo3. And many have gained insight into the game thru my fumblings. I did eventually win the game at turn 620 (2 years after I started it....don't let that scare you away, I'm just, "old and slow........watch out!"). Oh the GD thread is titled "Evon 1.2.5 from the ot thread condensed."

JosEPh :) ;)

[tenaka23]

Thanks you two. I know there is plenty more I can learn by doing (even doing wrong) but I wanted to at least get off to a good start.

[MisterPlow]

Bugs are great for Senate wins. You won't have much luck getting anyone to vote for you, but then you usually won't need their votes.

[pedxing]

Grendarl are good for Seante wins too, especially if they're customized to have better Diplomacy, Empathy, and Fantastic Trade.

the first few weeks i started playing, i played just enough of the start of each game to figure out what i was doing wrong, then restarted.

once i thought i had a good handle of development plans, though, i new it was time to play one through to the end... since it was a Senate game, it didn't drag on forever.

and right about the time that Senate games started feeling too short, along came the Allied Victory Condition patch! :up:

for planets, i don't specialize too much. by the mid-game, i like to make sure that every industrial planet has enough minerals to supply it's own needs, and enough food as well... with a little bit of surplus.

the extra food and minerals on those worlds produce AUs that can be used to drive industry and research. all-industry worlds lack that source of income.

of course, the industry deas generate income too, so i don't actually know which would generate more production: a mine-only world feeding an industry-only world, or two mixed mining and industy worlds that can each take care of themselves...

but i also like it that when my worlds get blockaded, they don't starve or suddenly not have the minerals they need to beef up defenses... not that that happens often, but when it does i'm thankfull that i don't specialize much!

[tenaka23]

the first few weeks i started playing, i played just enough of the start of each game to figure out what i was doing wrong, then restarted.

once i thought i had a good handle of development plans, though, i new it was time to play one through to the end... since it was a Senate game, it didn't drag on forever.

Thats what I did, now I'm going to play through with the game I started yesterday. I don't have a good handle on dev plans yet though so I'm micromanaging a lot while I figure it out.


for planets, i don't specialize too much. by the mid-game, i like to make sure that every industrial planet has enough minerals to supply it's own needs, and enough food as well... with a little bit of surplus.

the extra food and minerals on those worlds produce AUs that can be used to drive industry and research. all-industry worlds lack that source of income.

of course, the industry deas generate income too, so i don't actually know which would generate more production: a mine-only world feeding an industry-only world, or two mixed mining and industy worlds that can each take care of themselves...


So far my specialized production planets seem to be able to generate plenty to cover what they want to do. I can pump out plenty of ships through them while the rest contribute towards research, resources and troops. I don't know yet how that will work out for me in the long run but it seems like a good plan for now.

[tenaka23]

Ok my next question can probably be found in another thread but I haven't been able to find it yet so hopefully someone can point me in the right direction.

Understanding Dev plans.

Is there any thread that spells out what each one specificly does in all areas? Most of what I have read on them focuses on creating Dev Plans to get certain DEAs to be built and thats it. I'm looking for info on not only that, but on what emphasis they will cause the viceroy to put on each of the spending categories and what ones will make sure that all the latest buildings will be made. A few are fairly obvious, but many could go in several directions.

[Moridin00]

Just fluf for the description. I don't think the IPC is naturally armor piercing, and they definately destroy ships.
Nope, the IPC is AP by default.

[Da_Blade]

Ok my next question can probably be found in another thread but I haven't been able to find it yet so hopefully someone can point me in the right direction.

Understanding Dev plans.

Is there any thread that spells out what each one specificly does in all areas? Most of what I have read on them focuses on creating Dev Plans to get certain DEAs to be built and thats it. I'm looking for info on not only that, but on what emphasis they will cause the viceroy to put on each of the spending categories and what ones will make sure that all the latest buildings will be made. A few are fairly obvious, but many could go in several directions. Dev plans do not influence Roy's spending. His spending is controlled by the war/peace settings most of all.

Dev plans only influence Roy's descisions on what to build next on the planet in terms of improvement structures or DEAs. So if you put farming primary in your all planets, Roy will emphasize the building of bioharvest improving buildings and if nessecary bioharvest DEAs more then usual. It will not, however, make roy spend more on planetary improvement to build them faster.

[tenaka23]

Dev plans do not influence Roy's spending. His spending is controlled by the war/peace settings most of all.

Dev plans only influence Roy's descisions on what to build next on the planet in terms of improvement structures or DEAs. So if you put farming primary in your all planets, Roy will emphasize the building of bioharvest improving buildings and if nessecary bioharvest DEAs more then usual. It will not, however, make roy spend more on planetary improvement to build them faster.

Ahh thanks. By buildings does that include the military and planetery queues or just the Infrastructure panel?

[ac_snowman]

I've got a couple of questions that have been bugging me. Forgive me if they've been asked before, but I haven't seen an answer yet.
Playing 2.5 plus Strawberry.

1. Now that visibility is fixed, is it necessary for every ship to have ECCM specials or just at least one per task force? One on the field of battle period?
2. Same question for stealth specials. Does every ship need ECM/Cloaking or does one ship mask the whole TF?
3. Are Ion cannons and Ion fighters really all that great? Yeah the fighters are smaller, but they do so much less damage than neutrons or graviton fighters. They bypass armor but you still have to get through the shields which seems alot more difficult given the damage rating, the same would seem to be true for the ship mounted versions.

I'm playing my first game through to the end and it's actually the first time I've gotten far enough to have ion cannons.
Any help would be appreciated.

[pedxing]

as i recall:

ECM/Cloaks need to go on every ship.
ECCM/Sensors only need to be on one.

if you want to evade/hide, all ships must be so equiped.
if you want to target/find, only one ship needs equipment.

but that was before the Visibility fix... when Cloaks were the same as ECM, and only adjusted targeting range, not spotting range.

so targeting range appears to be per TF. (this seems weird to me, now that i think about it more... but hey, i'm sure somebody tested it at some point... right?)

but spotting... hmmm... i bet if only ship had a Sensor, it could spot enemy ships, which could then be targeted by other TFs. so maybe now you don't need to have at least one Sensor in every TF the way you need to have ECCM? just one on the map, and it would have to be close enough to the enemy TFs to spot them.

i doubt it would be worth the space advantage to try to get away with it, though.

edit: yes, ion fighters rock. enjoy! :up:

[ac_snowman]

Wow, thanks for the quick response.


but spotting... hmmm... i bet if only ship had a Sensor, it could spot enemy ships, which could then be targeted by other TFs. so maybe now you don't need to have at least one Sensor in every TF the way you need to have ECCM? just one on the map, and it would have to be close enough to the enemy TFs to spot them.

i doubt it would be worth the space advantage to try to get away with it, though.


By sensors, I assume you're talking about things like Focus Detection Array and the X-ray whatchamacallit. So those are what allow you to "see" the enemy TFs on the battle map? I thought those affected how far your ships could spot enemy ships on the galaxy map and ECM/ECCM affected "spotting" on the battle map. :noob:

So do ECM/ECCM only impact targeting and therefore % to hit?

Cloaking device provides a boost to ECM, so does it only affect targeting in a battle or spotting as well?

Thanks for the help! :)

[pedxing]

Wow, thanks for the quick response.
hey, it's been kinda quiet lately... it's nice to get some action around here. :D

By sensors, I assume you're talking about things like Focus Detection Array and the X-ray whatchamacallit.
yeah, those are the ship-mounted "Sensor" systems.

So those are what allow you to "see" the enemy TFs on the battle map? I thought those affected how far your ships could spot enemy ships on the galaxy map and ECM/ECCM affected "spotting" on the battle map. :noob:
nope. visibility on the galaxy map is improved with a different set of systems... ones that come from a different set of techs, and are built at Miltary DEAs, rather than on ships.

So do ECM/ECCM only impact targeting and therefore % to hit?
as i understand it, yep.

Cloaking device provides a boost to ECM, so does it only affect targeting in a battle or spotting as well?
i think what it does now is increase effective targeting range... just a sec... lemme check.

ok, here we go (TechTables.txt):

Cloaking Device... DefSptRg *= 2.0, Cloaking *= 1.5
Phased Cloaking Device... DefSptRg *= 3.5, Cloaking *= 1.8
Reactive Cloaking Device... DefSptRg *= 5.5, Cloaking *= 3
Ghost Device... DefSptRg *= 8.0, Cloaking *= 7.425

while:

ECM I... DefTgtRg *= 1.125
ECM II... DefTgtRg *= 1.25
ECM III... DefTgtRg *= 1.50
ECM IV... DefTgtRg *= 1.85
ECM V... DefTgtRg *= 2.5


cloaks make you harder to spot (DefSptRg), ECM makes you harder to targert once spotted (DefTgtRg).

it looks like cloaks also have another effect (Cloaking :rolleyes:), which i betcha makes ships less visible on the galaxy map?

[Da_Blade]

it looks like cloaks also have another effect (Cloaking :rolleyes:), which i betcha makes ships less visible on the galaxy map?Bingo.

[ac_snowman]

edit: yes, ion fighters rock. enjoy! :up:

Cool. A quick redesign and then it's goodnight robot boy!

:up:

[Da_Blade]

Ion fighters rock. With fighters and missiles it's one general rule: no mater how much damage they do individually, always pack more rather then stronger.:D

[tenaka23]

On that line of thought, just want to make sure I am choosing weapons smartly. I've been doing dirty math (getting an estimate in my head, not calculating the exact numbers) to maximize damage per hull space per second.

(((damage*modifiers)/hull space)/recharge time)*accuracy

And then throwing in some quick, cheap weapons to take care of incoming missiles.

[MisterPlow]

That's a good start, but it gets complicated because armor & shields block some fixed segment of the damage entirely, which obviously affects the smaller weapons more in percentage terms, and makes armor-piercing weapons more damaging.

Experience and trial & error will provide the rest.

[tenaka23]

Yea when I have similar numbers I go with the one that packs more overall punch.

[thory]

Hi.

I'm rather new to the whole Moo saga, but i love the Moo3 game.:). I'm playing with a friend over lan a campaign where we are at turn.. 150 i think, and i was wondering about the ground troops, i've already reasearched Phaser automated rifles i think, but it still says on the infantry and marine weapons that they still carry the first one.. why is that? I assume there is something i've missed but i can't figgure out what.

So, thanks in advance for any help:).

[The Wagster]

The types of troops you can have are Infantry, Marine, Mobile, Armor and Batteloids. You have to actively train (build) these units in order to use them (don't forget to build troop transport ships as well:rolleyes: )

The techs like phaser automated rifles and personal shields and the like are add on techs to these troop units and are automatically given to your troops after you have completed researching the techs. You don't have to do anything to get your troops using those weapons. Once research into Phaser automated rifles is complete all your troops will from then on use Phaser automated rifles.

[Tokyo Rose]

If he's not patched, then there's some bug (or possibly "feature") that sticks your troops with Plasma Projector forever once it's researched. Don't know precisely what stopped this from happening or whether it's relevant (Don't remember what tech level PP actually is, he might be stuck with something totally different), I just know this was my experience.

[The Wagster]

Hmmm, I'd never heard of that bug. But then again there were so many in version 1 that it's hard to keep track of them all!

[thory]

Ah, thanks for your replys guys, we did patch it up to version 1.25 last night before going to bed so hopefully it should be fixed now :).

[pedxing]

i think that the save games pre-1.2.5 patch aren't compatible with post-1.2.5 patch... so now that you're patched, you'll have to start a new game.

but it's worth it, to get the 1.2.5 fixes. if you do have to start over, you should take the opportunity to both install the Strawberry patch mod too!

[UnregisteredToo]

Well gang, new player here, on my 5th game (LOL - got whipped in first 4 games in about 3 weeks) and I am curious whether or not one can earn membership into the Orion Senate when they don't begin as a Senate member. In three of the four games thus far, I have had what I consider superb starting positions, with flanks protected by open space and multi-starlane planetary systems completely controlled by me. However, when I get to about 40 to 50 planets and am ranked anywhere from 3rd to 5th in overall power (and am about 250 - 350 turns into the game), I get the "You've Lost, Stupid" :eek: screen and discover an AI empire won a diplomatic victory.

Can anyone tell me what I am doing wrong? I macromanage my Empire and my Finance tabs, and i understand the basics, yet I am missing something, obviously! I play 1.2.5 which I patched before I ever played my first game. Thanks for the help! ;)

[loki220]

However, when I get to about 40 to 50 planets and am ranked anywhere from 3rd to 5th in overall power (and am about 250 - 350 turns into the game), I get the "You've Lost, Stupid" :eek: screen and discover an AI empire won a diplomatic victory.

Can anyone tell me what I am doing wrong?

When you start up a new game you can turn off the "Senate Victory". it stops that from happening




Loki
---long time lurker-----

[pedxing]

you can get invited into the Senate, but it is tricky.

one way is to be a NO tool... you need to have:

(1) a huge empire, like 1/4 of the total galaxy population,
(2) one friend in the Senate,
(3) and most everybody else in the Senate either hates you or doesn't care.

what happens is the NO will realize that they are about to start losing elections, and look around for an empire that would have more votes than the current non-NO front-runner, but also be less likely to win.

so they find somebody with a high population (condition 1), who is hated or ignored by most everybody (condition 3), and they propose membership for them.

yes, the NO will propose membership for you. :bulb:

then somebody will have to second it, and that's where condition 2 comes in.

once you get in, you'll go up against the NO in the next election (due to 1), but probably everybody else (other than your friend) will either vote against you or abstain (due to 3).

another way is to play both sides, meaning:

(1b) friends with the powerful Senate members,
(2b) your friends don't get along with each other.

in this case, your friends have enough votes to out-vote the NOs (that's 1b), but can't get themselves to vote for each other for President (due to 2b).

one of them will propose you for membership, another will second, all will come together to out-vote the NOs, and then in you come.

so it's tricky, but it can be done... or rather, it can happen.

you may also want to try Bhruic's 2/3 Senate Victory and/or the Allied Victory patch. the first make Senate games last longer, the second makes non-Senate games not take forever. :up:

or spend the 10 points to be in the Senate... it's where all the early-game action is, anyway... or at least all the action is between the races that know each other from the Senate... :D

[jp42655]

I played MOO3 for a very brief period almost 2 years ago. I got sidetracked with other games. Anyway, I have "refound" the game and have installed 1.25 patch and the strawberry mod. I tried my first game last night and have a couple questions.

I tried a Nommo (stock--I did not customize them) and in turn 2 some green dinosaur claimed he hated me, my mother, and anyone that looked like me. A turn or so later he declared war on me. I thought, "rough danged neighborhood here." He must have "known me" from my work in the senate (I am a member) because I never ran into him in my explorations. Anyway, thanks pedxing for the base relations table (I had to search here as I was confused why this bugger hated me so) for I now understand his dislike for me. I hope he understands mine when I finally track him down.

Anyway, question 1: I have explored two stars in each direction (space lane) from my home and have found almost all red's. There are a couple yellows in the third jump out but is this normal? Or, is my race not set up right? Or just bad luck? I had assumed I would not be colonizing reds and yellows until a bit later on as they take more resources to build up.

The second question is related to the first: Is there a better race to try for the first few games?

Yes, I play slowly as I read the encyclopedia quite a bit. :)

[pedxing]

the Nommo unfortunately are fairly picky about their planets, which may make them not so good for a learning race. at least the planets they like are usually pretty large, if i recall correctly, so where they do settle they will have plenty of room to grow.

you should stay off of the yellows and reds if you can, until you get some terraforming tech (rush the Physical Sciences school to find the first one)... although a mineral rich yellow might be worth settling early, if the gravity is green for your species.

habitat affects population start, growth, and maximum, but gravity affects productivity. having a low population mining colony isn't bad, as long as the workers can be productive! and then later, when terraforming techs come in, the population cap will go up... such worlds can become quite powerful, so it's good to stake them out early.

and yep, your Lizards are most likely in the Senate with you (as is everybody else you knew from the first turn). if enough other Senate members don't like the Lizards, you can probably get a Total War bill passed against them, which will get them kicked out.

some Sanctions and Embargo bills against them might be a good way to warm up the crowd. you may wish to try this before they do the same to you... ;)

the Insect and Cybernetik races are good for learning, especially the Tachidi and Cynoid.

if you continue on with the Nommo, go ahead and be picky about where you settle, and make Alliances with your neighbors. you'll end up with a thinly spread empire, intersettled with your friends. if you can keep them on your side, they'll help to keep you safe until you become stronger.

Nommo can be good diplomats, especially with Etherean and Humanoid partners, so hopefully you have some of those next door? make sure to put diplomacy to work for you... spam your potential friends with treaty offers, and propose new bills against your enemies as fast as you can.

the diplomatic and Senate work you do now will set the political landscape for the rest of the game. make sure you contol the process, instead of just letting it happen.

good luck, and let us know how it goes! :up:

[jp42655]

Thank you for your reply. Your base relations table really helped me to understand why the lizards hated me and me mudduh.... He may be the only Lizard in the senate too... I will have to check again.

I shall press on and see how I fare. I am sure I will have more questions. I have been reading (been a long time since I saw them) the DEA advice and other newbie hints. I am enjoying the game so far. I am very happy I did not give it away :)

EDIT: Took much of the advice above. Thought I'd share a little.....

The Lizards are out of the senate. :up: :up: That leaves the New Orions, the other fish, me, the meklar and the klackons. I have defensive alliances with the meklar and the klackons and a full alliance with the other fish.

I realized I have a fairly defensible front with some nice choke points, but, of course that goes both ways I guess.

I am having a lot of fun though. I have a spy named Spook--love those names :) Of course the filthy Laruthi (the lizards) killed three spies, but I have caught four of theirs :). Ooops, some died in custody. :cool: I am still looking for the Laruthi but they do not seem to border me.

I have lots to learn yet. I have been letting the planetary 'roys deal with the dea's for now. I want to take my time with the game and learn it.

[loki220]

I want to take my time with the game and learn it.


That's what I've done since I've dusted off the game and gave it another go, I've got about 3 dozen different games going, all started after I think I got another aspect of the game figured out.

[pedxing]

I am still looking for the Laruthi but they do not seem to border me.
if you still have contact with them after they have been kicked out of the Senate, they must be close... to have diplomatic contact, empires either need to both be in the Senate, or have colonies within two jumps of each other.

of course, the system between yours and theirs could be Orion or a Gaurdian... do any of your systems border such unfriendly neighbors?

anyway, one thing you can do is hit the 'b' button on the galaxy map. that'll toggle you between "stars" and "borders" mode. when in "borders" mode, you can see more easily who owns what systems, where they have mobilization centers, and where their capital is.

give it a try. the keys for galaxy rotation and zooming are the same as for space combat... practice how to tilt and pan and zoom with the keyboard exploring the 3d galaxy, and it will serve you well in combat!

[UnregisteredToo]

In my current game as Grendral (on easy with 1.2.5), I have begun raising the Empire Tax rate exactly 1% every 10 turns. I am curious as to whether or not the Viceroys will be able to counteract the effect of raising taxes by implementing more military, government, or recreation buildings. :confused:

I'll report when I reach the "breaking point" :mad: (when rioting cannot be contained) but am interested in whether the forum members here have attempted this previously.

Thanks in advance for your assistance!

[pedxing]

interesting exeriment... so, did you leave System Tax alone, or did you decrease it first?

i think what the Viceroy's will probably do first is reduce their Planetary Tax levels, so that the total tax rate stays about the same.

also, as has been suggested elsewhere, make sure to build plenty of System Ships, to keep Piracy down, so that it doesn't contaminate your results! drilling down into the Demographics tab of a planet will show you the causes of unrest, so that you can confirm that only Taxes are causing the upset...

[Lennier]

...drilling down into the Demographics tab of a planet will show you the causes of unrest, so that you can confirm that only Taxes are causing the upset...Well, it will show most causes of unrest; IIRC high taxes, piracy, leader effect, eaten by Ithkul, no Ithkul food, and poor citizenship (e.g. "Nommo") are the only causes stated. Unless you just loaded a game in which case none of them show up until the next turn. You will get the occaisional planet in urest with no explaination too...

[leggosboy]

Is there a way to get colony ships to add to populations? It says they can in the description, but I can not figure out how.

[pedxing]

the population that is on a colony ship is not taken from the planet where the ship is built... it is just free, new population.

so, send the population to another world, hopefully a green one, and there you go... if more than one ship arrives at the same planet at the same time, all will contribute population to the planet.

they cannot add to the population of existing colonies, unfortunately. they can only land on planets that are not full colonies yet.

[leggosboy]

Yes, I was making colony task forces around mid game to get bigger colonies, but the way the description on the ship read, I wasn't sure there was a way to do it post-colonization. Hopefully that will get patched in, as it is a common feature in this type of game.

Thank you for the answer though!

[Lennier]

I don't think Atari is panning any more patches for the game.

[UnregisteredToo]

interesting exeriment... so, did you leave System Tax alone, or did you decrease it first?

i think what the Viceroy's will probably do first is reduce their Planetary Tax levels, so that the total tax rate stays about the same.

also, as has been suggested elsewhere, make sure to build plenty of System Ships, to keep Piracy down, so that it doesn't contaminate your results! drilling down into the Demographics tab of a planet will show you the causes of unrest, so that you can confirm that only Taxes are causing the upset...


No, I didn't lower the System Tax at all, I just want to see if I can squeeze every last penny out of my economy without losing anyone to Revolt! So far, I have it cranked up to 18% and rebellion is not too bad an issue. At 19% it started to become unruly in my empire, but I had a concurrent enemy spying issue, so that may have skewed the results. I caught the spies but lowered the Empire Tax back to 18%.

[leggosboy]

I'm playing Psilon and having an issue that does not make sense to me.
I'm getting raped by spies, however they are not spies from empires I have contact with (I'm looking on the rare occasions I get "your empire killed a spy belonging to x" messages), so I have no idea how to counter attack.
Any advice?
Playing patched and vanilla mod.

[The Wagster]

Did you used to have contact with the empires but have lost it recently?

I have a similar problem in my game and put it down to spies managing to stay around for a while after I lost contact with their empire but, thinking about it, I lost contact with them about 100 turns ago now... Not even James Bond could stay around for that long undetected!

So, whilst this is the newbie help thread, this veteran needs some help as well:rolleyes::cry:

I'm playing with Strawberry mod.

[pedxing]

yeah, i think there might be a known bug about this, where any empire that has had contact with you can continue to spy, even after they lose contact?

so, anyway, did you get kicked out of the Senate or something?

[leggosboy]

Both have happened, the Silicoids got the boot from the senate, but 100 turns later, I still had their spies wandering in and the other empire I had never made any contact with whatsoever.
This also just occured on turn 4 of a new game, without being in the senate or having met any other civs.

[The Wagster]

I autoran to turn 100 but my empire got kicked out of the race on turn 85 or so:( It's a real bummer because there was about 13 races in the senate at the start of the game and now I only have contact with about 6, 3 of whom are at war with me:cry:

Was also ranked 17th (out of 16 races + NO:eek: ) at end of autorun!! Up to 13th now;)

Playing as Cynoid's but upped the diplomacy pick to 'good' in the hope I'd be able to make some friends. Apparently not:sour:

[Albaron]

I autoran to turn 100 but my empire got kicked out of the race on turn 85 or so:( It's a real bummer because there was about 13 races in the senate at the start of the game and now I only have contact with about 6, 3 of whom are at war with me:cry:

Was also ranked 17th (out of 16 races + NO:eek: ) at end of autorun!! Up to 13th now;)

Playing as Cynoid's but upped the diplomacy pick to 'good' in the hope I'd be able to make some friends. Apparently not:sour:

Fire you minister of foreign Affairs (or what ever the Cynoid's call it). :D

Anyway ... could the spy issue not also be related to another race (A) trying to blame a specific empire (B). It still wouldn't make so much sence to blame an empire you lost contact with (except if empire A was in war with empire B). Or is that 'blaming the other empire when discovered' not in the game?!? :confused:

Well my knowledge is slightly limited due to the fact that I started my first game in a long long time this past weekend ... and so far I enjoy it. :D

[Shroud]

Could anyone tell we why at around turn 100 the countdown starts? I made certain this time to choose unlimited turn length. Is there anyway to stop the countdown or will I have to start over again?

[Da_Blade]

countdown?


and do you happen to be Lascalle's shroud or some other shroud floating around in the galaxy?

[pedxing]

maybe Shroud is losing by a Senate vote, and has noticed that it always happens some time after turn 100? :weird:

[Shroud]

Sorry, what I mean is that there is a 10 minute time limit that I made certain not to choose this time, but it started up after I loaded a saved game (turn 104) it turned on. This has happened twice now and I am using the 1.2.5 patch and that's it.

I hate timed turns, it feels too much like work.

[pedxing]

oh, ok. i see...

the timer setting applies to a game, and follows that game through it's life.

if you start a game with the timer turned on, then any time you load a save of that game, the timer will still be on.

if you start a game with no timer, and then load a save of that game, the timer will be off.

you can't make the timer to go away by starting a new game without the timer, then loading a save of a game that you started with the timer on.

nope, doesn't work that way.

the timer setting of a game is part of the save file, and will always be there when you reload the save.

if you want to play without the timer, you need to abandon your current game that has the timer on, and start a new one, with the timer off.


edit: i haven't played timed turns in a while, but one thing that really taught me what to focus on and what to mostly ignore was playing Senate games with a 4 minute timer and a fast-breeding race (Grendarl or Tachidi... customized for diplo-trade, and in the Senate).

whoooooeeeeee! that was tough, but a valuable learning experience, and the games didn't take weeks to play! ;)

[superdeluxe]

Help.

It seems that the computer's AI is doing everything for me..while I appreciate it doing most...its building all these transports and troops..when I want battle cruisers :(

[pedxing]

are battle crusiers the biggest ships you can build? you may be setting your expectations too high...

try putting one at the front of one of your good planets' build queue... how long would it take to build, if you didn't fiddle with the sliders?

more than 3 turns? if so, that's your problem right there!

the AI is looking for ships that take 2-3 turns to build.

if you don't have any designs that a planet can build in that time-frame, it'll just build troops.

or, if troop ships are the only design you have that a planet can build in that time-frame, it'll build those troop ships.

so, for each mission, try designing multiple sizes of ship: one design that's a hull size or two below your maximum hull, and another that's two sizes smaller than that.

if you just do the smaller design, your better planets won't think the 1-turn ships are worth their time.

if you just do the larger design, your lesser planets won't build them, becasue the can't get them done in 3.

and if you only design ships that are the maxium hull size, then:

(a) not all planets will have enough shipyard capacity to build them.

(b) even if they have big enough shipyards, only your very best worlds would have any hope of getting them done in 3 turns... and even those best worlds might not be able to pull it off at first.

makes sense so far?

oh, and:

(1) when you redesign your ships, make sure to increase the hull size of Transports and Colony ships... this let's you fit multiple troop/colony pods onto them, and making them cost more also helps them not to be over-produced.

(2) make sure you have the 1.2.5 official patch installed, at the minimum. in the release version, the "troop and transport" syndrome was much worse!

[superdeluxe]

Yikes oh crap. I read the instruction manual, and I am still lost.

How do I change it so my planets are not looking at things that take 2-3 turns?

and is the patch on the atari website?

[The Wagster]

Ahh, sorry pal but the manual is rubbish and doesn't even relate to the released version of Moo let alone the highly (user made) patched game we have now. A lot changed between beta and the release and the manual was written for the beta:mad: And even more has changed since then with the work of the modders.

Try reading the Mootorial Project (http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=375787) thread and some of the other "stickied" threads (the ones at the top) in the strategy and general discussions forums instead. And feel free to ask questions of course.

Here's the Atari page for the official Moo patch - http://www.atari.com/us/support/newfaq/masteroforion3.php?browser=1&pageDisplay=DOWNLOADS

Your planets will always look to build ships that take about 2-3 turns to build, that's the way it is. If you follow Pedxing's advice that is a good way to get the plaetary viceroy (or 'roy' for short) to build what you need. Another way, if you really want you planets to build those large ships, is to manually place the ships into the build queue and then lock the queue so that when one ship is built the planet automatically begins building the same design again. I think you need the patch to be able to lock queues.

You can also set the troop and colony ships to obsolete if you find you have too many of them. It's done through the shipyards screen, find the design you want to obsolete in the list of current designs and click on the obsolete button. Once roy has finished building any of that ship already set to build he will stop building any more. There's no way to obsolete or otherwise force roy to stop building ground combat troops unfortunately:(

[The Wagster]

Could anyone tell we why at around turn 100 the countdown starts? I made certain this time to choose unlimited turn length. Is there anyway to stop the countdown or will I have to start over again?

I've never had the countdown start for me when I haven't selected it at the start of the game. Very weird. It's also not something I've heard of before... sorry.

Try posting it in the Bugs forum.

[pedxing]

i think we got the "countdown" thing sorted... Shroud was loading a save game that had the timer on.

@superdeluxe: the "Build the Big Boys" thread is really helpful, if you want to get some serious navy construction done:

http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=268703

and yeah, check out the Mootorial, linked above. maybe also read through the first Succession game thread over in Gerneral Discussion, to get a feel for how a lot of different players do things:

http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=510550

and if you want to understand why some aliens hate you as soon as they meet you, and some want to be your friends, read the first post in the FFLLHH thread linked in my sig.

and most importantly, and keep asking questions! that's how everybody learns this game! :D

edit: (and get the 1.2.5 patch... hopefully you bough the 2 CD version of the game?)

[superdeluxe]

Wow thanks everyone. I will try to absorb as much as I can.

I have the 2-cd verison. found it at half priced books for 6$, thought I would take a gamble on it.

OH

One more question. When the AI starts to send out colony ships to other galaxies..it tends to pick planets in galaxies that aare much farther away than me. DOes it already know its picking a good planet and/or there is nothing else better close to me?

I think I should stop the outer system colonization, until I can figure how to build warships. Can't really defend colonies with troop transports.

And why in the heck is the AI only sending out colony ships with no escorts!

[pedxing]

oh, good! anything other than the 2-CD version, and you wouldn't be able to patch it!

you should patch to 1.2.5 as soon as possible... it'll not be compatible with your old save game, but you'll be much happier with the results!

( expect to start a few games, realize what you're doing wrong, and start over, anyway ;) )

there are still bugs in 1.2.5, but thankfully most of those have been fixed by fan patches. the most essential of those have been collected into Colt's Vanilla UOP mod, which is pretty much the current minimum standard configuration that folks play with these days.

most players go a step further, to Strawberry UOP, which includes a nicer UI, and changes some details of play, in addition to fixing bugs. it's a really nice base to start from, once you are comfortable enough with the game to start tweaking it yourself.

and for the jaded, there's now Tropical UOP, which radically changes some parts of the game, but it isn't something we suggest for new players to fool with. heck, i haven't even tried it myself.

anyway, you should probably turn off Auto Colonization, until after all of the good planets you can get to are taken... it's best used for backfill, once you are busy with more imporant stuff.

as far as i can tell (and i may well be wrong), the Auto Colonizer picks the best planets you know about, without regard for distance, and goes for those first.

and yeah, it won't send escorts along, another reason it's best used for consolidating space you already control than it is for the initial wave of settlement into contested space.

[superdeluxe]

Hrmm after the game patched, it just started colonizing idiotic planets.

Is there a way I can check out planets in a distant system first? Before I send out colony ships?

The patch has helped ALOT though, It actually builds a good amount of warships..and not just troop carriers.

[pedxing]

did you turn off the Auto-Colonization, in in the Empire Policy tab?

if you do that, then only the planets you mark with Colony markers will get colony ships sent to them.

then if silly planets get settled, it's your fault. :p

[superdeluxe]

did you turn off the Auto-Colonization, in in the Empire Policy tab?

if you do that, then only the planets you mark with Colony markers will get colony ships sent to them.

then if silly planets get settled, it's your fault. :p

I think I am going to restart using strawberry :)

Is there a way to scout planets..and mark them for colonization..before I send out colony ships?

[superdeluxe]

I think I did something wrong :*(

I was on turns 160-170, I thought I had good ships with P8/Battle Cruisers. But I guess not.

I had 5-6 armada's of top of the battle cruisers more than 100 ships. Against New Orions 18 ships.

I got crushed. And the new orions dropped out of site. I lost almost all 100 ships.

I dont understand :(

[pedxing]

for sure, you did something wrong: you fought the New Orions! ;)

they had super-advanced technology back when your species was pounding rocks together... you're probably not equipped to fight them, even at 10-1 odds, until somewhere around turn 400.

all the other races, you'll probably do fine against them... but just stay out of the way of the NOs until you control most of the galaxy, and have no other serious enemies left!

[superdeluxe]

for sure, you did something wrong: you fought the New Orions! ;)

they had super-advanced technology back when your species was pounding rocks together... you're probably not equipped to fight them, even at 10-1 odds, until somewhere around turn 400.

all the other races, you'll probably do fine against them... but just stay out of the way of the NOs until you control most of the galaxy, and have no other serious enemies left!


My Allies all declared war on new orions..

Also I ran into the harvesters..and they also kicked my butt.

Is Battle Cruiser ships good size at turn 160-180?

[Tokyo Rose]

It's a fine size. Possibly a little big, depending on which race your playing. First time I took Orion 80% of my fleet were "Finalist"-class Battlecruiser.

Turns 0-75 or thereabouts I build (mostly) frigates. It tends to take about that long to get the technology to build warships I'm happy with anyway, and frigates are a decent, inexpensive platform for the get-you-by weapons.

I general skip destroyers for aesthetic reasons, and make my first decent fleet out of light cruisers.

There's only a few simple rules to remember with regard to ship size. Bigger ships give marginally better bang-for-buck. Smaller ships get built faster and don't require the shipyard upgrades. If it's numbers you need (usually, in the beginning) build small. If you need to concentrate as much power as possible into one area (usually, mid-to-late game) build big.

In general, the progressively greater size of ship weapons and sensors will force you to build larger and larger anyway.

The important thing about design is to keep in mind what you want the ship to have. If you're finding you can no longer get the combination of weapons and specials that you want for your latest design into the hull size you're using, you may have to build bigger. If you have space left over, you may like to make the hull smaller.

Remember that in combat, enemy fire will get spread across ships in a TF more-or-less randomly. This means more ships in a TF=More survivablity. An armada of light cruisers will beat a flotilla of battleships (probably!), although that same flotilla would eat the LCs alive if they were in 4-5 sqadrons. Thus, numbers are important.

[superdeluxe]

I know I am not suppose to use cheats..but I wanted to try the fleet size task force (100 ships), I saw this over at moo3.at.

Does it not work..?

[pedxing]

there are mods that change the number of ships in a TF.

it's not really a cheat, since the AI player will play by the same rules.

some people like bigger TFs.

it can get really graphically expensive, though... turning combat into a slideshow.

[Tokyo Rose]

Take note that Tropical roughly doubles the TF size, and that any of the three standard mode packages give you the option of resetting the maximum TFs per combat.

[pedxing]

i don't think i'm going to be able to play Tropical, until i stock up on enough rum, mangoes, and flowery clothing...

[Monkey Head]

trouble is althogh you can increase the number of ships, you can not change the footprint....

so when you end up with ships bigger than a batleship, they seem to "merge" into one ship coloured doughnut. kinda annoying. the purist in me wants some form of colission detection.

oh, and my pc is cack, so even with 10 tfs of 18 ships, all those pesky mssiles and fighters make the thing have a coronary.

[superdeluxe]

Thanks for that information.

Now I have more pressing problems.

I seem to have several planets..but I can't seem to find how I colonized them. They are not in any systems that I colonized..they are kind of off by themselves.

They also have Mrrshan race on it. But they seem to be really pissed off (unrest level 3). Problems with tax being to high (I lowered taxes). and Piracy. (I started production on some system ships, but production is non-existant because everyone is pissed)

Help?

[pedxing]

migration, probably, is what got that population there, if colony ships didn't do it.

population will just move around on it's own some times, especially if unrest if high... sometimes to planets you've already settled, sometimes to new worlds.

you can lower taxes on just those worlds that have unrest (the sliders on each planet's screen), so that you don't need to lower it at the imperial or system levels (the sliders on the Finance screen). that should help get them out of unrest long enough to build system ships.

you may also want to do some designs of system ships that are really small, like Cutter size... they'll be much less expensive than larger hulls. it'll take more of them to have an effect, but you can at least get them built faster.

you can also get the planets to build defensive bases, like Fighter and Missile Bases, or Planetary Shields. those help reduce piracy as well (and are just a good idea in a dangerous galaxy, anyway!)

you can also lighten up on the oppressometer a notch or two, if spies aren't making problems for you (make sure to keep a lot of your own spies at home, for security!).

finally, you can change your system of government to something that will allow higher taxes without causing unrest. i hear Monarchy is really good for that.

[Tokyo Rose]

trouble is althogh you can increase the number of ships, you can not change the footprint....

so when you end up with ships bigger than a batleship, they seem to "merge" into one ship coloured doughnut. kinda annoying. the purist in me wants some form of colission detection.

oh, and my pc is cack, so even with 10 tfs of 18 ships, all those pesky mssiles and fighters make the thing have a coronary.

Oh yes, but somehow watching that doughnut break up under your fire is weirdly beautiful. As for your own TFs; two words: Escort Ring.

I fully appreciate the hardware issue. Although I must say I've noticed fewer slowdowns under tropical than under strawberry.

[superdeluxe]

migration, probably, is what got that population there, if colony ships didn't do it.

population will just move around on it's own some times, especially if unrest if high... sometimes to planets you've already settled, sometimes to new worlds.

you can lower taxes on just those worlds that have unrest (the sliders on each planet's screen), so that you don't need to lower it at the imperial or system levels (the sliders on the Finance screen). that should help get them out of unrest long enough to build system ships.

you may also want to do some designs of system ships that are really small, like Cutter size... they'll be much less expensive than larger hulls. it'll take more of them to have an effect, but you can at least get them built faster.

you can also get the planets to build defensive bases, like Fighter and Missile Bases, or Planetary Shields. those help reduce piracy as well (and are just a good idea in a dangerous galaxy, anyway!)

you can also lighten up on the oppressometer a notch or two, if spies aren't making problems for you (make sure to keep a lot of your own spies at home, for security!).

finally, you can change your system of government to something that will allow higher taxes without causing unrest. i hear Monarchy is really good for that.


The thing is..I don't know where these systems came from..They are not near any of my other colonies..in fact..I do not know where they are..and my ai has never sent out colony ships.

Confusing.

[Tokyo Rose]

Migration can take place over a surprising distance. And has nothing to do with colony ships.

[pedxing]

for finding the planets, a good trick is to go to the galaxy map, then hit 'b' to put it into "border display" mode. this will put the flag of the empire that owns each system up above it, and color the stars of owned systems and the starlanes between owned systems the same color as the flag.

it also shows you where mobilization centers are, but that's another topic.

anyway, once you've got flags over the planets, it makes it a lot easier to figure out what's where.

if you zoom out far enough, the flags will get crowded, and then disapper, but if you zoom in just a little from there, you should be able to see the flags well enough that you can scroll around and find your mystery colonies pretty quickly.

--

on a side note, on the topic of migration, there was a thread recently at the GC2 forums about how cool it would be if population could move around on it's own, like when a planet starts to get overcrowded or had morale problems... :p

[The Wagster]

I assume you know the name of the fledgling colonies. Go to the planets screen, scroll through the list until you find the planet in question and then click on the "Location" button at the top. You will then get a mini view of the galaxy with the planet highlighted:)

[superdeluxe]

Woo more great tips.

More questions. My colony AI guy wants to colonize green worlds in systems owned by ally forces.

Is that normal? Is that good? How do I protect these far-off places?

Even though every system can make battleships, I only form the fleet from my homeworld.

And its getting quite annoying stalling my ally race. They keep on wanting me to war on new orions. Heh. NO WAY.

[pedxing]

to form fleets in other systems, they need a Mobilization Center.

you can build them at the System Seat of any system, or at the first planet in the system that you settled, if the system has no Seat. you have to get the tech for it, of course... it's in the Physical Sciences, so you probably have it already, if you can build battleships.

remember "borders mode" on the galaxy map? that'll show you systems with Mobilization Centers, as a flag that looks something like the nib of an old-fashioned fountain-pen.

your Imperial Seat will have a flag like that, too, with two extra dots on it?

anyway, yeah, go ahead and settle in Allied systems... it'll increase your trade income, and you can let your Ally do most of the protection of the system, until you get a Mob Center built.

[Lennier]

Just be aware that if your ally has ships in the system, your colony ship may be unable to land on the planet.

[pedxing]

eh?

having an Alliance is what makes it possible to land a colony past the other empire's ships, isn't it?

now, if you were just friends, not Allies, then yeah, for sure you wouldn't be able to land a colony.

and since it works both ways, it's why some people don't like to form Alliances, since it would allow their friends to "steal" planets in their systems.

[Lennier]

To be able to land a colony ship in a planet with another player's ships, you need an alliance and have the other player's military readiness towards you set as "quiet front." My experience has been that the AI empires are extremely reluctant to set their military readiness to "quiet front" even with full alliances. But on easy, they might be more willing. Your military readiness will default to "quiet front" towards empires you have alliances with; you can set it to "defensive front" (or whatever the middle setting is) if you don't want the other empire from "stealing" your systems.

[pedxing]

oh! good point... i forgot about the "quiet front" thing!

[superdeluxe]

Woo Thanks!

I just defeated my first guardian! I had a 146 fleet ship (mostly battle ships and battle cruisers), and lost about 65 ships. OUCH.

Now it says on the planet my special is darlok guardian. Does this mean anything further? (like will it reappear down the road?)

Another question.

OKAY

I need to find out if a system can produce fleets or not.

Because I attacked a system. Crushed the opposition (I had 150 ships..they 50)

well I was down to 110 ships. Thought I was in control.

Next turn. they had 300 ships. Kicked my arse.

ideas?

[pedxing]

nope, the special just means that the system is where the guardian was...

the way you find out if a system can produce enemy fleets is to see if it has a enemy Mobilization Center in it or not.

go to border mode (by hitting 'b', recall?) and that will show you Mobilization Centers. yours will look slightly different than theirs.

figuring out which planet in a system actually has the system's Mob Center is a little trickier... usually it's the one with the most population, but not always. a light bombard (no need to "unload all") should destroy it, if you pick the right planet to attack.

[The Wagster]

oh! good point... i forgot about the "quiet front" thing!

I had no idea quiet front did that. I thought it just helped improve relations slightly and make spying slightly easier.

<<== still a n00b:rolleyes:

Sometimes, early game anyway, to find the enemy mob centre you can look at the habitat rings/level (green2, sweetspot etc) for the enemy race as the best planet was probably the first they colonised in that system and therefore has the mob centre. By the time the planets have been terraformed it's hard to tell though.

[superdeluxe]

How long does it take for defensive front to take effect?

I just beat another guardian, and there was the sweet spot planets..but It was in a allies terrirtory..and they just gobbled up all the planets in one round :(

[The Wagster]

Yeah, it's worth either taking colony ships with you when you attack guardians (if you can have colony ships instead of warship task forces and still beat the guardian) or setting it up so the colony ships arrive in the system one turn after you destroy the guardian.

By the time you can take out guardians most if not all planets are colonised so every race will rush their colony ships to these new planets you just freed. I often lose guardian planets to allies and it really p's me off:sour:

[Lennier]

How long does it take for defensive front to take effect?Changing your military readiness towards another Empire takes effect immediately.

[Monkey Head]

Yeah, it's worth either taking colony ships with you when you attack guardians (if you can have colony ships instead of warship task forces and still beat the guardian) or setting it up so the colony ships arrive in the system one turn after you destroy the guardian.

By the time you can take out guardians most if not all planets are colonised so every race will rush their colony ships to these new planets you just freed. I often lose guardian planets to allies and it really p's me off

or design a specialist anti-gaurdian ship that includes colony pods along with weapons. tends to be pretty big and expensive though 180 ships of varying type all ready to form a planet/system is pretty smooth. if you dont mind swapping a huge fleet for a system. :)

[superdeluxe]

Thanks everyone. I just realized that I have to colony ships!

[The Wagster]

or design a specialist anti-gaurdian ship that includes colony pods along with weapons. tends to be pretty big and expensive though 180 ships of varying type all ready to form a planet/system is pretty smooth. if you dont mind swapping a huge fleet for a system. :)

Would you be able to get them to land though? If each ship in a 18 ship armada has a colony pod on it when you try to colonise the planet there won't be enough room to land.

I suppose you could make just the PD or recon ships with colony pods...

[pedxing]

i think as long as they all land at the same time it would work...

and it would probably "splash" to some of the nearby planets in they system as well?

interesting. :up:

it's one heck of a game, that keeps us all learning, for years... :heart:

[Lennier]

Would you be able to get them to land though? If each ship in a 18 ship armada has a colony pod on it when you try to colonize the planet there won't be enough room to land.

I suppose you could make just the PD or recon ships with colony pods...If each ship in the 18-ship armada had a colony pod, then the they'd all land and make a planet with a starting population of 18 (assuming the planet's green for all species on the colony pods.) I'm not sure if you can get a non-colony TF to land though. Hmmm...interesting tactic, having colony ships take on a Guardian. :weird: I usually just have my colony ships timed to arrive in the Guardian system one turn after my combat TFs.

and it would probably "splash" to some of the nearby planets in they system as well?I think with 18 colony pods going down at once you'd probably overload the initial region and some of the colonists would immediately pack up and move to a nearby planet. :)

[Monkey Head]

if you make it a colony armada it does work quite well for larger planets. for smaller ones its a little more efficent to have only the recon picket with colonies. but then it gets complicated managing all those designs and permutations...

[superdeluxe]

Bah.

I had 8 colony ships in the TF to fight the guardian. After the battle. I put orders on the guardian planet to land and colonize.

But what happens? The other guy still gets in there and colonizes it.

BAH

And also, not sure why this happened..I am warring with the surazont empire, I have very good ships (mostly dreadnaught/battleships now).

I had 230 ships, they had 120 ships.

They lost 1 ship

I lost 229 ships.

I know I am not suppose to go against the new orions..but wtf? This wasnt even the new orions. bah.

[The Wagster]

Check on the victory screen to see the respective tech level of your and the surazont empires. If they have a big tech lead that will explain the can of whoop-ass they opened on you;)

Also, did all 229 ships explode or did some retreat? Just after the combat when you get the result screen it will say something like "your empire 1/230; surazont 119/120" but that screen does not take into account ships that have retreated rather than been destroyed. The one you have left may be your planet (assuming you were defending a planet in the combat) and a lot just retreated out of the system. The it-rep will tell you what %age of ships you lost and by selecting the system in the galaxy view you can see how many ships are still in orbit and about to retreat.

Lastly, what type of ships have you built? Are they mostly missile, fighter, short or long range? How were your ships killed; did they all get wiped out by missiles and fighters or did their SR and LR ships do the damage?

If it was the fighters and missiles that did you in then you need to build a lot more PD ships and make sure you have at least 6 in each armada. If you fill up your main ships (ie the carriers etc) without any PD then you should put even more PD ships in the task force. LR and SR armadas don't require PD ships but you would be wise to use them anyway.

[Longspur]

Hey Wagster,

I'm glad you answered this, and I'm betting that you are right.

This whole scenario just boggled my mind.

If Superdeluxe's fleet never fired a shot, how did the surazont manage to lose a ship ?

[JosEPh]

It's back to basics again folks.

Many of the younger players are jumping right into Strawberry or Tropical Mod and have limited eXperience with default 1.2.5 tactics. So their perceptions are skewed. And it takes a bit to get down to their real problem. So, for ex., a relatively new player says, "the whole AI fleet rushed in and Long Range weapons are useless". That tells you right off that they have little to no eXperience with TF Designations and those associated behaviors. An eXperienced player has learned that only SR TFs Charge to close range on the Attack Command. They get into SpaceCombat and immediately lasso all their TFs and give the Attack Command, expecting a Command & Conquer type response. They just havn't used or eXperimented with the Space Combat Commands or TF behaviors enough to know better. So when the AI spanks them for their silly RTS tactic of *rush* they come and say the game is broke. NO, I'm sorry to say their ineXperience is showing. (The above is an example of what has been occurring on the boards for a while now and is not intended to demean or put anyone down. Disclaimer to anyone who might take offence to this post)

JosEPh :) <-smilie to denote friendly intent>

[Lennier]

I think his fleet got off a shot or two; they just weren't very effective shots.

[pedxing]

yeah, knowing the composition of the two fleets would be really interesting...i bet they had IF and Carriers, while superdeluxe had LR/SR?

later in the game, Missiles and Carrier groups dominate, especially if one watches battles, instead of controlling them (i only control crucial/close battles, btw).

also, was this defense of a planet? was it system ships or allied forces that brought the total above the normal 180 ship limit? if you were defending, your ships would have started out in a ring around the planet, and had a harder time protecting each other with defensive fire.

and indeed, it would be good not just to check general tech level, but also who had better shields and armor.... which you can do, superdeluxe, by looking at the tech matrix, and changing the empire using the little drop-down menu betweent he matrix and the description.

if you missed a level of shields and/or armor, and you enemy got them, it can really make your ships vulnerable to newer weapons!

anyway, i bet they started off at long distance, the LR/SR tried to close, got spread out so they couldn't defend each other, and were mowed like wheat before they could get into firing range?

[superdeluxe]

Thanks for all of the great tips again. I know a little more how to make the fleet work.

OH..and I just lost the game...Somehow the empires got together and declared total war on the new orions. Me being the idiot, abstained instead of voting no..

[Lennier]

Oh dear. Unless you've got enough votes to win the next election (or have "Senate Victory" turned off), you'll loose. Of course, it sounds like you probably wouldn't have been able to prevent the total war even if you had voted no. Better luck next game. And you'll get the hand of it.

[superdeluxe]

Oh dear. Unless you've got enough votes to win the next election (or have "Senate Victory" turned off), you'll loose. Of course, it sounds like you probably wouldn't have been able to prevent the total war even if you had voted no. Better luck next game. And you'll get the hand of it.


Actually I had enough votes to save the orions..so I did. Now I am quickly gaining in power and strength (bombing the crap out of the evons)

[pedxing]

well done, with the vote to prevent the power vacuum. :up:

getting the NO kicked out is a dangerous gamble... but i can work out if you're one of the two most powerful empires, and have more friends than the other leading empire.

that's how the first Succession game ended, in fact. :D

note that if you invade and take population, instead of wiping them out, you'll gain voters faster than breeding them up yourself.

what's you current voting rank in the Senate?

[superdeluxe]

well done, with the vote to prevent the power vacuum. :up:

getting the NO kicked out is a dangerous gamble... but i can work out if you're one of the two most powerful empires, and have more friends than the other leading empire.

that's how the first Succession game ended, in fact. :D

note that if you invade and take population, instead of wiping them out, you'll gain voters faster than breeding them up yourself.

what's you current voting rank in the Senate?


I am third in the senate. the 2nd vote getter is better allied with the 4th vote getter.. the 5th is not much worth of anything..thats my problem.

I have 8th power rank (17 races)

Whats the best way to take over planets, with least amount of bloodshed? I do want to bomb the planet to soften up troops..but even if I just unload ordinance I kill everyone.

[pedxing]

Whats the best way to take over planets, with least amount of bloodshed?
overwhelming force.

never mobilize anything smaller than an army, and estimate that it will take you between 1 and 3 non-Recruit Armies to take each planet. more, if all you have are Recruits.

suddenly all those troops and transports that the AI wanted to build earlier don't seem so useless, do they? :p

once they arrive, don't invade unless you have at least a 4x advantage over their troops, is a good rule of thumb.

Ruse and Surprise work really well, but i like to mix them up with Sweep, Vertical Envelopment, and Massed Assualt, especially if i've got better than 5x odds. i can't shake the role-playing habits.

after you finish taking the planet, you should follow the SitRep link to the planet, open up the Militaty tab, and disband the troop formations. they'll spend a few turns in the "delay box" before they get back to your reserves, but when they do, they'll be more experienced.

i usually do most of my work with a mix of Experienced and Trained troops, but it's cool when they start getting higher than that... i'll even break my "only armies" rule and mobiles a Corps of Crack Marines or the like, if i don't have enough to make a full Army... see the "role playing" comment above. ;)

also, if any of your friends have any ground force weapons or troop armor that's better than yours (again, you can compare using the matrix) get them to trade it to you. it can really make a difference, and applies to all your troops immediately.

[superdeluxe]

You have taught me so much thanks!

The klackon's basically take the planets that I destroy ...

[superdeluxe]

Wow.

Even though the land troops tactic is time consuming..I have went from #8 in powerranking to #5

Although, one of my allies, declared war on me..and I had several large colonies stuck within his borders.

Problem is that I dont know how to create fleets in these outer worlds..what do I have to do so this can happen?

As it happens, I am basically going one system by one system, taking systems over so I can reach my standed colonies..

ALSO Please help.

I am having serious unrest issues, People are complaining about something called NOMMO.

Now nommo in the game is the name of the empire..?

Oh and when you send out fleets searching for the ANtarian X's is there a finite number? For example, if another empire gets a X..does that mean the Antarian victory is not possible? I got three fairly quickly..but havent gotten another one in 200 turns.

[T_Khan]

What does (un)conditional surrender do? Every time someone surrenders to me, it sucks. I get NO tribute/planets/technology/etc., but I can't attack them. Does it have any use or hidden bonus?

[pedxing]

Wow.

Even though the land troops tactic is time consuming..I have went from #8 in powerranking to #5
yep. :up:

once you have enough troops and transports (doing some x5 and even x10 builds on your ultra-high industry worlds can help), you can get to the point where they are coming out of the delay box as fast as you can use them, and it really picks up speed.

and one of the other nice things you may notice is that (after a few turns of understandable unrest) you now have a highly populated planet, hopefully with some surviving infrastructure, instead of a fledgeling colony that needs to be built up before it can be productive.

Although, one of my allies, declared war on me..and I had several large colonies stuck within his borders.

your ally probably has an alliance with one of your enemies, and that enemy asked them to "Honor the Obligation", and join the war against you.

you can check by going to the diplomacy matrix, where it shows your empire in the middle, with different colored lines going out to the other empires, showing your relations? there's a drop-down menu on the right that lets you change which empire is at the center, so you can re-center on your former friend, and see if they have any dangerous alliances.

Problem is that I dont know how to create fleets in these outer worlds..what do I have to do so this can happen?

you need to have Mobilization Centers in those systems. the AI will usually build them for you, once you have the technology.

if you want to see if you have any out there, hit the 'b' key, when looking at the galaxy map... i've mentioned this before above... when you wanted to see where the enemy could mobilize their ships? it will also show you where you can mobilize yours.

enemy Mob Centers should kind of greyed-out a little, compared to yours. once you've seen both kinds, you'll be able to tell the difference.

if you want to build a Mobilization Center in a system yourself, instead of waiting for the AI to do it for you, it needs to be built at the planet that has the System Seat.

the Seat for a system requires a Government DEA, which isn't a problem if you make sure that most planets have one, like i like to do. i usually don't bother much with Military, and almost never with Recreation (except for role-playing), but every planet i've got that isn't tiny gets a Government DEA.

they reduce unrest, improve Industry, and if you have one on most planets it give you options of where to build the Seat in each system.

so, in each system that doesn't have a Mob Center yet, go to the best planet in the system, and:

1) make sure it has a Government DEA. tear something out and build one, if it doesn't have one.

2) once there is a Government DEA, a System Seat will appear as something you can build in the non-military build queue (the one below below the military queue). build it.

3) once there is a System Seat, a Mobilization Center will appear as something you can build in the military build queue.

i like to put Government as a Tertiary priority in my Development Plans for New Planets this usually makes sure that each planet gets one, and stops zoning new ones after the classification of New wears off.

then the AI will usually just build System Seats and Mobilization Centers without me having to take the steps above manually. much less hassle.

ALSO Please help.

we enjoy nothing better. :D

I am having serious unrest issues, People are complaining about something called NOMMO.

Now nommo in the game is the name of the empire..?

yep, Nommo is the name of the squidly/nautilus looking race... they are Liberty-loving, and very easy to upset, much like Humans... and are usually the first to go into Unrest and start throwing rocks through the windows of fast-food restaurants, corner markets, and banks, and are very surprised when that doesn't help, again much like Humans. :rolleyes:

basicly, if you can keep the Nomma and Humans happy, the rest of your empire will be happy.

so, maybe in addition to building Government DEAs on every world, maybe the worlds with NOMMO unrest should get a Recreation or Military DEA as well? depending on your governement type... what's your government type?

also you can do the usual tricks of reducing Imperial Taxes and increasing spending on unrest reduction (both on the Finance page), as well as reducing the Oppressometer setting (on the Empire page).

and finally, for newly conquered planets, just expect about three turns of unrest from them after the shooting stops, with nothing much you can do about it. if they stay in unrest for five turns or more after the "end of major combat operations", then you should worry more that more needs to be done (lower planet taxes, defensive bases, system ships).

[pedxing]

What does (un)conditional surrender do? Every time someone surrenders to me, it sucks. I get NO tribute/planets/technology/etc., but I can't attack them. Does it have any use or hidden bonus?

you should get tribute, which should show up on the Ledger tab of Finances.

you get more tribure for Unconditional vs Conditional.

i wish it worked the same way as in Moo2. :sour:

[superdeluxe]

Hi.

I have more pressing issues, I have a wierd relationship with the nommo. One minute we sign a non-agressive pact...then they declare war...then I get a peace settlement.

This has been going on back and for the past 30-40 turns. Anyway I can get them to at least stay at peace with me for a little while?

[pedxing]

do they have an Alliance with somebody you are at war with? you can check using the diplomatic matrix, as described above.

and do you also know how to check what their Current Relations and Casus Belli are with you, using the diplomatic matrix?

i suspect that your relations are quite good (by the way, what race is your empire?) which is why they keep making peace... but they have a friend they have sworn to protect who keeps getting them to attack again...

[superdeluxe]

do they have an Alliance with somebody you are at war with? you can check using the diplomatic matrix, as described above.

and do you also know how to check what their Current Relations and Casus Belli are with you, using the diplomatic matrix?

i suspect that your relations are quite good (by the way, what race is your empire?) which is why they keep making peace... but they have a friend they have sworn to protect who keeps getting them to attack again...


Yup. They are allies with the klackon folks.

Thankfully I have managed to have one or the other at peace.

But another issue. While we are at peace..they go and park their amarda's in my colonies..then BAM, once enforced peace is over..they are deep inside my terrirotries..I have defensive front..so not sure why are able to travel so far.

ALSO for unrest...what is the 'leader' effect?

OH thanks for the system seat! everytime I conquer a system I make sure to build one of those right away.

I think I have finally cut off the travel points of my enemies, before they we're able to hit me from front and behind, because they traveled through a rival's system. I have killed that rival, and control the system, so my borders are a little more protected.

OH and with all of your guys great tips..I am now 4th in powerranking, and I have gained about 50 brand new colonies in the past 100 turns, all with lots of population and buildings (Most of the conquered terrortories we're klackons..man those guys breed fast...klackons, evons and silicoids.

[Monkey Head]

Most of the conquered terrortories we're klackons..man those guys breed fast...klackons, evons and silicoids.

IMHO there are few better things in the game than an empire made of several species so you can really focus and drive thier inherant abilities :)

I usually end up with a majority of human basic or research ephasised, complimented by a magnate or 2, and i always try and take over any meklar/cybernetics near by early on. i find they are pretty efficient add ons.

after a while, it seems pointless in glassing planets (unless there are pesky ithkul around) as any species you can add to yours will compliment any talents. good example is nabbing some etherans early on to develop your gas giants....

current goal i have set myself is to try and capture the NO planets to see what benefits they bring. i usually glass thier planets in fear of a reprisal fleet the following turn....

[pedxing]

@superdeluxe:

are you the most powerful in the Senate yet?

well, other than the NO, of course... you'll probably be going up against them in an election soon?

i recall from above that your were #3, while #2 and #4 were allies with each other, and #5 on down weren't worth bothering with...

will the old #2 and #4 vote for you, if you were up against the NOs? or is it them that you've been taking those planets/voters from?

[superdeluxe]

@superdeluxe:

are you the most powerful in the Senate yet?

well, other than the NO, of course... you'll probably be going up against them in an election soon?

i recall from above that your were #3, while #2 and #4 were allies with each other, and #5 on down weren't worth bothering with...

will the old #2 and #4 vote for you, if you were up against the NOs? or is it them that you've been taking those planets/voters from?


#2 is allied with #4.

So if it ever came down between me and #2, #2 would get votes from #4..and I would lose..

[pedxing]

yeah, but if was you vs the NOs, would #2 and #4 vote for you?

[superdeluxe]

Oh and I have a problem.

I am assaulting these planets..but everytime it goes to bombard stage/ground combat..it says I have no troops in system.

That is false..I have 5 armada's of troops. Help?

[superdeluxe]

yeah, but if was you vs the NOs, would #2 and #4 vote for you?


Yes they would.

But its #2 vs NO now..so how do I make it so its me vs NO?

[pedxing]

so how do I make it so its me vs NO?

make yourself the new #2... :alien:

and hold the top of the heap until an election year.

so, how do your score and population graph lines look compared to the current #2's lines?

they're ahead of you, yeah, or they wouldn't be #2. but how fast are you rising?

and are they still even rising? have they leveled off, or at least slowed, compared to you?

or are they ahead of you and still pulling away?

only the last case is a bad one... in the others you're at least catching up.

and if you are indeed catching up, can you estimate, based on current trends, when you will pass them in population and/or score?

and will that crossover happen before the next election? if so, that may end the game.

or is it a couple multiples of 22? because that multiple is the number of times you will have to help the NO stay in power.

if it is a large multiple, you may want to consider more drastic policy changes...

or you can look at any open bill to get the current vote counts of the Senate members.

how close are you vote counts right now, yours and the soon-to-be-former #2's?

[The Wagster]

Oh and I have a problem.

I am assaulting these planets..but everytime it goes to bombard stage/ground combat..it says I have no troops in system.

That is false..I have 5 armada's of troops. Help?

How many task forces in total do you have in the system you want to invade? When you watch (or control) the space combat can you see the troop transporters among your war ships?

In unmodded Moo you can only have 10 task forces in combat and those 10 are picked by the computer. I think it picks from the top of the list that appears when you click on your ship icon on the galaxy screen. Anyway, if the troop ships aren't in that 10 then you won't be able to invade. If you have installed mods (well, Bhruics patcher or any of the mods that use it) the number will have been increased but there is still a limit.

You can either a) move some warships out of the system, maybe to the next enemy system and start kicking ass there, or
b) select some warships and move them away from the system. Then click on the ship icon signifying the ships leaving that system and click back on the star, thereby ordering them to stay in the system. I think this moves them to the bottom of the list so your transports will be selected ahead of them:)

[Lennier]

after a while, it seems pointless in glassing planets (unless there are pesky ithkul around) as any species you can add to yours will compliment any talents. good example is nabbing some etherans early on to develop your gas giants....Actually, I don't glass the Ithkul anymore. They make nice add-ons to your empire as well. Although I suspect that adding them to your empire starts to scare your allies and may hasten their declarations of war on you.

current goal i have set myself is to try and capture the NO planets to see what benefits they bring. i usually glass thier planets in fear of a reprisal fleet the following turn....I've only had a couple of games where I took on the NOs; I ususally conquered them. The Elder Race has some nice bonuses. And their planets are usually pretty well developed. But by the time I take them on, it's usually too late in the game for there to be many planets for them to colonize, let alone time to build the new colonies up to usefulness.

[Da_Blade]

Actually, I don't glass the Ithkul anymore. They make nice add-ons to your empire as well. Although I suspect that adding them to your empire starts to scare your allies and may hasten their declarations of war on you.They make a nice addition, but i highly doubt that they negatively affect your diplomacy in any way. I just don't give moo3 enough credit for that. Leaving the ickies be is the smartest thing to do. Especially early in the game they can be a very worthy asset to your empire. You then have the pros of the ithkul (they're a very ncie race) without the cons (diplomatic isolation).

I've only had a couple of games where I took on the NOs; I ususally conquered them. The Elder Race has some nice bonuses. And their planets are usually pretty well developed. But by the time I take them on, it's usually too late in the game for there to be many planets for them to colonize, let alone time to build the new colonies up to usefulness. Exactly. NOs are a great race, but in my experience any race after the second or third you add to your "inventory" is too late to really make a difference for you. The NOs especially usually only come when every little hellhole in the universe is already colonized, so you seldomly have much use for them colony-wise. The orion system makes a great industrial powerhouse though!

[Monkey Head]

i usually glass the ithkul simply as i play as a human empire with a very fine balance between tax and unrest. when i did used to add them, the unrest casued by thier inevitable eating of people was a little annoying.

[pedxing]

yeah, there is that... the unrest while people are being eaten.

oh, and the unrest when the people run out, and there's noone left to eat...

[redrick]

I have all the requirements built on a number of planets- Basic Systems, Space Environment, Matter Conversion, Materials Processing, and Automated Assembly modules. Only some of these planets don't show my battleship designs as available items to put in my build queue. Other planets do. Is there some other requirement for building battleships?

[superdeluxe]

Wow!

Thanks everyone!

It eventually got to the point..where my ally was #1 in the senate in votes..and I had surpassed the NO's for #2. So the vote came down between #1 and #2.

and I figure the only way I won, was that the NO's voted for me, as I was the only race not to have 'warred' with them.

So even though I finished with a powergraph score of 3.. I won in the senate woo!

Is there anyway to keep on playing after senate victory? a mod maybe? I guess I could go back one turn..and abstain..or vote for my opposition..

[pedxing]

you can just reload the current autosave, which will put you on the turn after the election. no need to change your vote... the election is over.

since the victory happened at the end of the previous turn, you can keep playing from this turn, without hitting the victory condition again.

until the next election, of course. :p

there is a patch from Bhruic, that changes the victory condition to 66% of the vote... if you get better than 50%, you get to be President, but the game doesn't end.

last i heard, it's not compatible with the Allied Victory condition patch, which i prefer to Senate games, these days.

unmodified Senate (50% to win) games are too short.

unmodified Sole Survivor games take too long and get boring.

the ideal game length seems to be somewhere between the two, and the victory condition patches move each condition in this direction.

the patched Senate Victory condition (66%) helps Senate games to go longer.

the Allied Victory condition patch only requires destruction of non-Allied empires (rather than all other empires), making them much shorter than Sole Survivor (unless diplomacy skills are lacking).

i'm not sure if Strawberry has the 66% Seante patch, but for sure it doesn't have the Allied Victory.

if you're looking for a longer game next time, superdeluxe, you might like to learn how to use Bhruic's patcher, and fine tune your patch selection to include Allied Victory! :up:

or, you could learn it now, and install the 66% Senate patch, to extend your current game without the hassle of loading the Austosave! :up::up:

unless, of course, you got more than 66% of the vote this last time... ;)

[Da_Blade]

i usually glass the ithkul simply as i play as a human empire with a very fine balance between tax and unrest. when i did used to add them, the unrest casued by thier inevitable eating of people was a little annoying.The amount of planets with a mix of races is so small you'd hardly notice it in my experience. Of course I don't usually play humans so it might work different for them.

[Lennier]

I have all the requirements built on a number of planets- Basic Systems, Space Environment, Matter Conversion, Materials Processing, and Automated Assembly modules. Only some of these planets don't show my battleship designs as available items to put in my build queue. Other planets do. Is there some other requirement for building battleships?That's really odd. I've never had that happen. I'm not aware of any other requirements.

[Monkey Head]

Originally Posted by redrick
I have all the requirements built on a number of planets- Basic Systems, Space Environment, Matter Conversion, Materials Processing, and Automated Assembly modules. Only some of these planets don't show my battleship designs as available items to put in my build queue. Other planets do. Is there some other requirement for building battleships?

the benefits provided by shipyard upgrades take one turn to be recognised..... so if on a turn you build say a basic systems module, the shipyard capacity wont increase from a frigate to destroyer unitl the next turn.......

[redrick]

the benefits provided by shipyard upgrades take one turn to be recognised..... so if on a turn you build say a basic systems module, the shipyard capacity wont increase from a frigate to destroyer unitl the next turn.......

Of course. Thanks, I got confused 'cause some planets must have finished the upgrade before I thought they did. Must've done overtime. The Beggers need a union.

[superdeluxe]

The autosave trick works..I have now won senate seat like 5 times now.

Question though.

I have the technology to colonize more planets..I have put the 'colonize planet' on the planets that I want to colonize...I even have the colony ships to colonize..

It just wont colonize..its pissing me off..because these are sweet spot/green 1 and 2 type worlds..

help?

[pedxing]

It just wont colonize..its pissing me off..because these are sweet spot/green 1 and 2 type worlds..
you could mobilize the colony ships yourself, and put them on course to the planets you've selected.

[Longspur]

I have the technology to colonize more planets..I have put the 'colonize planet' on the planets that I want to colonize...I even have the colony ships to colonize..

It just wont colonize..its pissing me off..because these are sweet spot/green 1 and 2 type worlds..

help?

Sometimes, I think, the auto-colonize seems reluctant to send Colony ships through AI empires. In that case, just mobilize the colony ship, cross your fingers, and send it on its way.

Dunno, though. Other times, like after the exchange of an intelligence treaty, I've had colony ships sent half-way across a huge galaxy, many, many turns away. Again, cross your fingers and don't hold your breath. But this is how mini-colonial empire additions are created. Sometimes referred to as "Hong Kongs." Think of the British empire at its peak.

[The Wagster]

Rule Britannia...

:D

[Lennier]

I very early on gave up on the "auto-colonize" feature of MOO3. I usually mob my colony ships myself and put the destination planet in the TF name (and if I have a multi-species empire, an abbreviation for the species as well) and send them on their way.

[redrick]

you could mobilize the colony ships yourself, and put them on course to the planets you've selected.

But when they get there, my experience is they just stay on station until this idiot with his, uh, mouse in his hand remembers to order them to colonize a specific planet in the system. Unlikely when I've been relying on auto-colonize all game. 5 turns after I've dispatched them my mind is a galaxy away.

[Lennier]

But when they get there, my experience is they just stay on station until this idiot with his, uh, mouse in his hand remembers to order them to colonize a specific planet in the system. Unlikely when I've been relying on auto-colonize all game. 5 turns after I've dispatched them my mind is a galaxy away.Yeh, that's the downside of manual colonization. In the Early game, you can just scan the map for systems that have your TFs parked. Scout ships should probably be moved onto the next system to explore; colony ships, well, that's the clue to colonize a specific planet. Late game shouldn't make as much of a difference if you forget for a turn or two. It's just something to get used to. I'm a micro-manager at heart, so I got fed up with the AI's decisions on colonization quite early. It seems to assume all of your colony ships are of your "base" race and makes its decisions accordingly.

[pedxing]

hmmm, usually if i've marked the planet for colonization in a system, and sent a colony ship to the system, it'll land where i've told it to...

usually. :rolleyes:

sometimes though, yeah, it'll just sit there until i manually set it down, i totally know what you're talking about there... but usually, it does work.

what i like to do every couple of turns is use the 'f' key, to rotate through all my fleets and see what they're doing. if any colonizations failed to happen, or anybody else needs orders, that'll find them.

[superdeluxe]

you could mobilize the colony ships yourself, and put them on course to the planets you've selected.


How do I do that? I even have a colony ship..in the system..WITH orders to colonize..and its not doing it.

I put 'set to colonize' on these planets..

[superdeluxe]

hmmm, usually if i've marked the planet for colonization in a system, and sent a colony ship to the system, it'll land where i've told it to...

usually. :rolleyes:

sometimes though, yeah, it'll just sit there until i manually set it down, i totally know what you're talking about there... but usually, it does work.
.

How do I manually set ships down?

[pedxing]

go into the System,
click the Forces tab.
select the Planet,
select the Colony Ship,
click the Create Colony button.

the Colony Ship should now be graced with a green flag, indicating that it is landing.

if it already has orders to land, but is trying to land on the wrong planet or something (you can check which planet it is trying to land on by selecting it in the Forces tab), you can cancel those orders and then order it to land on the correct planet.

yeah?

[superdeluxe]

go into the System,
click the Forces tab.
select the Planet,
select the Colony Ship,
click the Create Colony button.

the Colony Ship should now be graced with a green flag, indicating that it is landing.

if it already has orders to land, but is trying to land on the wrong planet or something (you can check which planet it is trying to land on by selecting it in the Forces tab), you can cancel those orders and then order it to land on the correct planet.

yeah?

What about if it has green flag...but the planet is not occupied..but its still not landing..?

[Razeful]

maybe an AI-empire wich you are NAP-ped to has also a fleet in that system, then your ships wont land

[pedxing]

yeah that does sound like it's properly ordered... but is being blocked by something.

so yeah, who else is in the system? planets only, or also ships?

and what's your level of treaty with them, and whats your border policy towards them?

and (perhaps most importantly) what's their border policy towards you?

if there's nobody else there, then i'm baffled.

[redrick]

What about if it has green flag...but the planet is not occupied..but its still not landing..?

Are you sure you didn't order the ship to the system? It will only land on its own if the AI ordered it there in response to your flag on a planet. But if you just ordered a colony detachment to a system it won't know what to do without further orders, & you need to open up the star system, select the planet you want, hit forces, click the colony ship's flag in the box, & click "Create Colony".

When you click the ship on the main screen and it opens a box, the TFs acting under AI orders should be in blue print, the ones under your orders in black print.

If that was the case, the AI should eventually be (building if it has to and) sending another colony ship there in response to your flag & you'll eventually get a "cannot land because planet is already our colony" message.

But as Pedxing says, I think ships won't land if there are other empire's ships there with whom you do not have at least a non-aggression pact.

[pedxing]

actually, i think if you order a Colony ship to a system where there's a colony marker, it should automagicly get ordered to land.

[redrick]

actually, i think if you order a Colony ship to a system where there's a colony marker, it should automagicly get ordered to land.

Well, I just tried the experiment and it didn't land on the flagged planet. I even let it sit there for two turns in case it needed to get its mind made up. No other ships, or occupied planets for that matter in system. BTW auto-colony is off but I think even with it on ships need to be under AI command to colonize a planet without specific orders.

[redrick]

Do system ships as well as starships deter colonization by non-treatied empires?

[pedxing]

they do.

[Monkey Head]

easy to miss enemy sytem ships if they are in a system you consider yours.... they dont show up on the galaxy map, only on the system map undr the other forces tab. thing is im not sure what other effects they have.... eg piracy/unrest reduction....... altho handy to have as cannon fodder in a fight.

[Lennier]

System ships have the same piracy-unrest reduction abilities as starships of the same size.

[pedxing]

also, system ships do count towards the number of ships displayed for each empire, in the pop-up that appears when you click on the system in the galaxy map.

but unless there's also starships there, there'll be no ship icon next to the system... even though the number of ships that empire has in the system is non-zero.

this makes them especially easy to miss, as Monkey Head notes above.

[redrick]

also, system ships do count towards the number of ships displayed for each empire, in the pop-up that appears when you click on the system in the galaxy map.

BTW do you know if they also count in the total empire ship count on the Victory/Overview/Current Balance of Naval Forces screen?

[pedxing]

good question... an easy way to check would be to start a game and see what your total empire ship count is... is it 3? or 6?

[The Wagster]

I'm positive system ships do not count in the total empire ship count, and neither do ships in the reserves or delay box. It is a count of the starships deployed around the galaxy.

This does, of course, mean the figure can be very deceptive. I've seen empires ship counts increase from 60 odd to over 1000 in a single turn after they've declared war on someone:eek:

[redrick]

good question... an easy way to check would be to start a game and see what your total empire ship count is... is it 3? or 6?

Or one of the typical bone-headed lazy questions with which we plague you. It's 3 so system ships don't count, as noted by the Wagster, who points out that ships in the reserves don't count either. I ran the test forward to build a scout ship & left it in reserves and empire ship count remains 3.

So basically that ship count is only useful as an indicator of an empire's current level of activity, not the level of ships it can throw at you- or that you can mightily stub your toe on.

[Monkey Head]

it also incudes transports and colony ships..... infact ALL starships. which means the meklar empire menacing your borders with 500 odd ships might for all you know be trash cans full of grunts. nuke them all i say. lol

[pedxing]

Or one of the typical bone-headed lazy questions with which we plague you.
note, i did only suggest how to get the answer... getting the actual answer was "left as an exercise for the reader". :D

[redrick]

Hi,

I'm having trouble with attacking the NOs on the ground. I first attacked what I guessed was their main planet with not enough forces. I used auto (always do- I'm disabled and it saves fast clicking) and it said my grunts had been defeated. Next turn I attacked same planet again, intending to land many more grunts. But the game woundn't let me. I had specified "attack planet" but after the space battle there was no bombardment-land troops oppurtunity. I'm successfully attacking other planets in the system now- my guys take so many regions and after a turn or so the planet is mine, but how many turns (if ever) before I can land troops on that first planet again? Or do I just have to glass it?

Thanks much,

[pedxing]

how many TFs do you have in the system, now?

only 10 of them go into combat, so if your transport TFs are not selected to be in the 10, you get no chance to invade. unfortunately, the only way you can see for sure which TFs were selected is to watch the battle and lasso your TFs and see what they are. other than that, there's no way to tell which 10 get selected each time... :(

also, things can get weird when you have more than one combat in the system in the same turn, usually due to having allies in there with you who are not allied with each other. in this case, you must chose Attack Planet for every battle...

and i would suggest attacking the same planet each time, if you get to attack more than once in the same system in a single turn, rather than attacking two or more different planets.

the same rules apply to invasions against the NOs as normal empires, there shouldn't be anything special about it being at Orion, but these two issues are uncommon enough that you might not have run into them before?

[redrick]

how many TFs do you have in the system, now?

only 10 of them go into combat, so if your transport TFs are not selected to be in the 10, you get no chance to invade. unfortunately, the only way you can see for sure which TFs were selected is to watch the battle and lasso your TFs and see what they are. other than that, there's no way to tell which 10 get selected each time... :(

also, things can get weird when you have more than one combat in the system in the same turn, usually due to having allies in there with you who are not allied with each other. in this case, you must chose Attack Planet for every battle...

and i would suggest attacking the same planet each time, if you get to attack more than once in the same system in a single turn, rather than attacking two or more different planets.

the same rules apply to invasions against the NOs as normal empires, there shouldn't be anything special about it being at Orion, but these two issues are uncommon enough that you might not have run into them before?

Thanks much for your reply. Only 10. The only thing special about the NOs is I'm very careful about attacking them! But I think there may have been ships from another empire nosing about. (I'll fix THEM later.) Anyhow, two turns later I was allowed to attack and nail that main planet.

I guess the trick with the NOs is to use plenty of troops, but not on the first or second turns you attack the planet. On the second turn they may have a whole 180 more ships out of reserve and if you're there with two TFs babysitting 8 transport TFs you're screwed. After that second sucker punch attempt you can come in with 6-8 transport TFs. At least that's what my limited experience suggests.

Thanks again,

[superdeluxe]

I too am taking out the NO (trying to solidfy the core of the galaxy, before I take the fight against #1 power empire).

My problem is..many times i select attack planet...then it doesnt attack planet..but instead defends one of my own planet.

I learned my lesson about the troops..I once had 6000k troop strength versus 2k..and I lost...so now on..I make sure I have 5-1 troop strength.

Is there anything special/cool that you get if you conquer the NO's?

[Specialist290]

The problem is that, at the same time that you're trying to attack one of their planets, the NOs are trying to attack one of the planets you've taken in the system. The Nos, however, get an initiative bonus over the other Orion races, so their attack is usually the one that ends up hitting first, putting you on the defensive automatically.

[pedxing]

ooooh, that's true, if one were doing the battle full auto, instead of watching, there'd be no way to tell that one had lost the initiative and is actually fighting to defend a different planet in the same system, where an invasion has already completed... and not actually attacking the targeting planet.

did you complete the invasion of a different planet in the same system, before trying to land additional troops on the first planet, redrick?

[superdeluxe]

The problem is that, at the same time that you're trying to attack one of their planets, the NOs are trying to attack one of the planets you've taken in the system. The Nos, however, get an initiative bonus over the other Orion races, so their attack is usually the one that ends up hitting first, putting you on the defensive automatically.

There it is!

I ended up bombarding the last planet..just so they couldnt produce ships anymore to attack me....

[superdeluxe]

Defeating the Orions opened up several new empires for me to conquer.

Question though..when the enemy is more than 2500 ships in the system. What is the best way to wittle that number down?

blockade? Assault planet?

[redrick]

ooooh, that's true, if one were doing the battle full auto, instead of watching, there'd be no way to tell that one had lost the initiative and is actually fighting to defend a different planet in the same system, where an invasion has already completed... and not actually attacking the targeting planet.

did you complete the invasion of a different planet in the same system, before trying to land additional troops on the first planet, redrick?

No. Tried on the very next turn.

[pedxing]

freaky!

[The Wagster]

Defeating the Orions opened up several new empires for me to conquer.

Question though..when the enemy is more than 2500 ships in the system. What is the best way to wittle that number down?

blockade? Assault planet?

Try blockade first, if they want to fight then they won't have their planet defenses to use against you. If you assault the planet you have to factor those in.

Although... if they don't have that many orbital space station thingys if you decide to assault the planet their forces will be badly organised in a ring around the planet rather than in a nicely formed line. You may be able to destroy the two or three nearest task forces before the others manouver around the planet and are able to provide supportive fire for them.

So, in summary, I don't know:rolleyes:

:D

[superdeluxe]

Try blockade first, if they want to fight then they won't have their planet defenses to use against you. If you assault the planet you have to factor those in.

Although... if they don't have that many orbital space station thingys if you decide to assault the planet their forces will be badly organised in a ring around the planet rather than in a nicely formed line. You may be able to destroy the two or three nearest task forces before the others manouver around the planet and are able to provide supportive fire for them.

So, in summary, I don't know:rolleyes:

:D


It looks like waiting them out finally worked..I weeded out their tough ships..so now everytime I attack..its a easy victory.

Also.

Does anyone know why...all of a sudden I get a new colony planet..that is half inhabited, but that I never sent colony ships too?

very strange.

[pedxing]

Does anyone know why...all of a sudden I get a new colony planet..that is half inhabited, but that I never sent colony ships too?
migration. your people can not only migrare between worlds you own, but also to worlds you don't own yet.

[superdeluxe]

migration. your people can not only migrare between worlds you own, but also to worlds you don't own yet.


Really? Is there a method behind the madness? or do they just randomly pick planets to go too?

This planet is now in revolt >:|

[pedxing]

they pick somewhere they think they will like, based on racial habitat preferences, and how many jumps away it is.

if enough of them get the same idea at the same time, or they do indeed like it there and breed away furiously, and reach full colony status. suddenly the clubs aren't cool any more, and the restaurants are too spendy, and the real estate market is just absurd.

also, they sudenly realize that piracy is out of control, and now that they're part of the Empire, they darn well better start seeing some enforcement results for the taxes they now pay!

also, there may be kids on their lawn.

in any case, a state of Unrest usually follows pretty quickly.


the big thing, when you get a random planet somewhere that your Navy can't swoop in and defend from Pirates or Enemies, is to go into the build queue immediately and make sure that Fighter and Missile bases are the first thing in the queue, with a Mobilization Center taking the third slot, if you've got the tech.

your choice on the ordering, but in some order those are what really should be in there.

the Bases will bring down Piracy (yar!) and discourage Ememy adventurism. the Mob Center is Piracy or Enemy threat are so bad that you need to mobilize ships there.

[superdeluxe]

they pick somewhere they think they will like, based on racial habitat preferences, and how many jumps away it is.

if enough of them get the same idea at the same time, or they do indeed like it there and breed away furiously, and reach full colony status. suddenly the clubs aren't cool any more, and the restaurants are too spendy, and the real estate market is just absurd.

also, they sudenly realize that piracy is out of control, and now that they're part of the Empire, they darn well better start seeing some enforcement results for the taxes they now pay!

also, there may be kids on their lawn.

in any case, a state of Unrest usually follows pretty quickly.


the big thing, when you get a random planet somewhere that your Navy can't swoop in and defend from Pirates or Enemies, is to go into the build queue immediately and make sure that Fighter and Missile bases are the first thing in the queue, with a Mobilization Center taking the third slot, if you've got the tech.

your choice on the ordering, but in some order those are what really should be in there.

the Bases will bring down Piracy (yar!) and discourage Ememy adventurism. the Mob Center is Piracy or Enemy threat are so bad that you need to mobilize ships there.


Bases bring down piracy? dangit..I had deleted those in favor of system ships!

But I do know about the moblization centers though..those are very important.

I also notice that when I colonize now, and migrators, they are mostly klackons..which is kind of wierd..since I am human. :)

Thanks for all of the help, I am now getting about 70% of the senate votes..and now..finally after 720 turns, #1 in powergraph.

[pedxing]

if you've taken over klakon planets, they're now part of your empire, and may migrate...

[redrick]

you can just reload the current autosave, which will put you on the turn after the election. no need to change your vote... the election is over.

I just wanted to make sure: Will this work also if an AI empire wins the Senate Victory? Thanks-

[pedxing]

I just wanted to make sure: Will this work also if an AI empire wins the Senate Victory?
should.

[superdeluxe]

What are the best ways to steal a Antaran X? What spy is the best?

and question..if a race has antaran X...and they are only 2 planets..and you kill them do you get? and do I have to take over the planet? or can I just bombard them....would I still get it?

[pedxing]

X-tech works like regular tech, i reckon.

so use Scientific spies, to try to steal it, like regular tech.

and taking and X-tech by invasion should be like regular tech... you must invade, and try to do as little damage to the planet/population as possible.

if you snuff the holder of an X without getting it from them, it's probably lost (unless one of the other players got it from them before they snuffed it).

[superdeluxe]

Question....I did get that antaran X..but its not showing up anywhere (Not in the Sitrep), or victory (I had 3 antaran X's...and continue to have a 3). Does this just mean I got a duplicate? Should I reload in hopes I get one of the ones that not a duplicate.

[cbb]

Hi all-

Like some other people, I got the game a long time ago, got frustrated and packed it away, but lately came back and am now using the Strawberry Patch, and now I'm really into it.

But there is something I've never understood: what is the function of a military DEA? Does it just reduce unrest, and if so, why not build a recreation DEA instead? I read something somewhere in the manual or the in-game help about a "stacking limit" but I don't know what that means. Yikes.

Thanks.

[pedxing]

how do you know you got it, if there wasn't a SitRep item? :weird:

did it play a cutscene movie or something?

if so, and it doesn't show up anywhere, then yeah, it was probably one you already had. (that's just my guess)

unless the empire you took it from had more than one, reloading shouldn't make a difference.

send out more expeditions, if you want the collect the rest of the set...

or do you already have two more expeditions out there? if so, then waiting is the only thing to do.

i've always viewed the X Victory as a way to end Sole Survivor games early...

or as an escape hatch, when one is losing at Sole Survivor.

[ac_snowman]

But there is something I've never understood: what is the function of a military DEA? Does it just reduce unrest, and if so, why not build a recreation DEA instead? I read something somewhere in the manual or the in-game help about a "stacking limit" but I don't know what that means. Yikes.

Thanks.

It also allows you to see ships inbound towards the system sooner so I'll sometimes place them at strategic chokepoints. As far as any add'l benefit...I dunno.

[pedxing]

i think that's pretty much it... unrest reduction, plus some scanner buildings that let you see inbound ships earlier, if you can get 'roy to actually build the buildings.

recreation gets you unrest reduction plus some money. nobody is sure how much money, unfortunately. :sour:

government gets you unrest reduction, plus industry increases, and ability to build a system seat (allowing a mobilization center to be built on a world other than the first one in the system you settled, and a place for system taxes to go).

i'll put one military at strategic checkpoints, but i make sure that almost every planet has one government. i only zone recreation for role-play purposes (mostly on specials: natural wonders, contraband, aphrodesiacs, elerian labor, etc...)

[The Wagster]

Being able to see the incoming ships that turn earlier is very useful! It's well worth putting military DEAs on border worlds for that reason.

I rarely use recreational DEAs as well. Although I did put one on a unrest world recently that had unrest due to "Human", "Nommo" and Leader Effect. As you have no control over the Human and Nommo conditions and I didn't want to lose the Leader then a recreational DEA was the easiest way to stop the whinging;)

[Longspur]

I rarely use recreational DEAs as well. Although I did put one on a unrest world recently that had unrest due to "Human", "Nommo" and Leader Effect. As you have no control over the Human and Nommo conditions and I didn't want to lose the Leader then a recreational DEA was the easiest way to stop the whinging;)

An even faster way to control unrest in situations over which you have no control -- even piracy in a place where you can't get piracy patrol ships -- is to simply lower taxes there. Way down.

Folks living in a tax paradise rapidly forget their other complaints. This works well for planets you may have traded for, way on the other side of the galaxy over which you otherwise have no control.

Don't worry. Your viceroy will be appalled, and immediately start to inch taxes back up. Time he's got 'em back where he wants 'em your problem may be solved.

[The Wagster]

That's usually what I would do but whatever the tax situation those humans and nommo would find something to complain about! And rather than lose tax revenue for a few turns I thought I would build a recreational DEA and make even more money;)

The planet had a highish unrest number (when sort planets by unrest) but wasn't actually "in unrest" so there wasn't any rush to reduce the unrest levels.

But, yeah, cutting taxes is a good short term solution to unrest probelms.

[superdeluxe]

how do you know you got it, if there wasn't a SitRep item? :weird:

did it play a cutscene movie or something?

if so, and it doesn't show up anywhere, then yeah, it was probably one you already had. (that's just my guess)

unless the empire you took it from had more than one, reloading shouldn't make a difference.

send out more expeditions, if you want the collect the rest of the set...

or do you already have two more expeditions out there? if so, then waiting is the only thing to do.

i've always viewed the X Victory as a way to end Sole Survivor games early...

or as an escape hatch, when one is losing at Sole Survivor.


Yeah, I got a cut scene. I notice when I won senate victory..lit said I had 4 antaran X's, but only 3 out of the 5 on the victory screen.

I assumed there was a limited amount of X's (5 total), thats why, after I got three..I noticed 2 empires had 1 each..I gave up looking for them.

[pedxing]

interesting... the victory screen is probably wrong, then.

it is possible for more than one empire to have the same X, so there may be another one (or two ;)) out there...

your ships are probably faster now, so an new expedition (heck, send two, just to be sure) should take less time than the last ones you sent!

[superdeluxe]

interesting... the victory screen is probably wrong, then.

it is possible for more than one empire to have the same X, so there may be another one (or two ;)) out there...

your ships are probably faster now, so an new expedition (heck, send two, just to be sure) should take less time than the last ones you sent!

Woo thanks..

Oh another question..how come sometimes a empire would just abanon planets left and right? What is the point behind that?

[The Wagster]

In what way abandon them?

Sometimes a planet may revolt and become its own fledgling empire.

[Da_Blade]

Which is quite rare., I think what you;re seeing are planets dying off due to food shortage. It happens, and I am still convinced there is a bug related to food shortage and loss of control, but I've never been able to replicate the proof. But I've seen strange things happening in regards to planets dying off.

[superdeluxe]

Ugh annoying.

Anyway to prevent 'allies' from just riding around..parking armada's in all of my systems, then deciding to declare war. I am caught unprepared in many of the systems ugh.

[Monkey Head]

try setting your border policy to "defensive front" in the victory screen with the empires concerned.

oh and as for military DEA's. they serve a purpose in ground combat dont they? i am almost positive they allow an initiative boost, and other "vauge" bonuses like "fortification" and the like.... oh, and dont you lose the planet when the last military dea on it falls? or is that govt deas? cant remember.....