Newbs: Ask gameplay questions, get answers

[Ron_Lugge]

A few quick rules.

1. This thread is for GAMEPLAY questions, not arguements like "refit should be in" and "why can't I do XXX"
2. Acceptable questions should be how to do something, and they will be answered to the best of our abilities.
3. This is not a "how do I mod?" or "Whats a good strategy thread" - though the second one may pop up.

For example, "How do I (Or what IS) back-fill(ing) my empire?" Is good, whereas "Whats a good race to backfill with" isn't.

Also, feel free to ignore certain basic pieces of netiquete. Newbs are NOT required to wade through all the posts here to see if something has been answered before they ask it; they just have to check the last couple posts and make certain it isn't being discussed. This is because this is supposed to be an easy resource, not a textbook, and I know *I* find wading through large threads trying at the best of times...

Got the rules? Then go ahead and ask questions...

Note, this thread grew out of http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=283185 that thread.

[Sillycoid]

and tell me, how do u ask a question if you cant play the game?

:confused:

[Rellin]

Ok. How is this for a question?

What should I be doing exactly for the first, lets say, 10 turns?

I just got the game yesterday, and as expected from reading forums and reviews, I am boggled.

Ok I start the game, I pick my race (liked insect looks so choose Tachti or something like that), and start, so the first turn roles around and I really just have no idea what to change.

I know I can't change research stuff till next turn when I have some points, so all I really do is send out my two scout ships to two of the three stars around me to explore them, and if I have green planets in my starting systems I change my military build que to build however many number of system colony ships.

After this I am lost (Oh the shame, lol). I have no idea if I should change my research levels, it seems when I have, that my economy goes whack (This may be due to me lowering economic research to 15% or so). I find myself clicking turn over and over sending colony ships that I produce to new places that I find that are green, and reading the sit reps, but with no idea what I should really be worrying about as far as actually micromanagement is concerned.

New research is completed and items become available, but I have no idea what to do with them, or if the VR is doing it on his own. My planetary build que stays empty and I don't have anything in my lists to add to it. I set up development plans for my empire based on some threads I read here, and the logic behind them makes sense, I got to turn 50 or so in like 10 minutes had a bunch (like 6 or 7 I think) of new colonies, but no idea if they really were good besides being Green 1 or 2, and just was hoping that my dev plans were leading thier development in a way that was good, because I really didn't even know how to check thier progress, because I don't know what to expect from a good healthy producing planet.

I have read a bunch of threads around here, but am still totally lost as to what I really need to be doing to get my empire off to a good start. If there are threads already on this that I am missing, (even though I looked) please post a link here if ya would, but even better would be a list or some sort of guidelines to what I need to really concern myself with as a total newbie, and what I need to know so I would make the proper decisions for those things I must manage myself.

[Craig P.]

Musts:
Dispatch scouts (and possibly the colony ship, depending on how much you want to gamble) to adjacent systems
Evaluate the current system - do you want to set up outposts or colonies? If so, go the the MBQ (military build queue) at your home planet and stick in one or more system outpost ships / system colony ships (note that a system outpost design doesn't exist initially).

Things you'll definitely do once you get more comfortable:
Set up some initial development plans.
Tweak your initial ship designs to augment your initial capabilities, or replace the initial designs altogether if it doesn't suit your combat preferences

Things you may do once you get more comfortable, depending on your play style:
Zone out your homeworld.
Adjust empire-wide policies to suit your play-style.
Adjust tax rates to suit your play-style.

[ursketchy]

good idea for a thread :up:
Originally posted by Craig P.
Evaluate the current system - do you want to set up outposts or colonies? If so, go the the MBQ (military build queue) at your home planet and stick in one or more system outpost ships / system colony ships (note that a system outpost design doesn't exist initially).
1) what's the benefit of building an outpost over a colony ship (system or starship, same argument seems to apply)? outputs drop a 1/4 of colony ship's population, then you have to wait it out until it reaches a 1000, which could take who knows how long on a Red 1/2, in order to make it productive. i realize an output is cheaper...but is it really worth the wait until the new planet actually evolves?

2) i get very frustrated with starlanes around turn 50 and on or so. by then, to deploy a colony ship to, what looks like a close system, takes the most roundabout route to get there due to the starlanes, and winds up taking close to 20, or even 30 turns. i've seen that when you try to move from one star to another that you haven't gotten a connected starlane to, it displays some absurd ETA, like ~100 turns. is there any way to "get around" this? am i missing something? incidentally, i know that if you play a cluster, there is, what seems to be, depth involved, but i've mostly played Arm galaxies since....well, it was the default :D

3) i'm in the same boat as the above poster (Rellin) - i feel like i sit there, turn after turn, and do absolutely nothing. i realize this was built towards macromanagement - that's fine, i can (try to ;) )accept that. but a turn whips by, a bunch of SitRep's pop up...and i'm just as clueless and useless as i was a few seconds ago. i guess this is less of a question, and more of a general comment....i've read Alexfrog's preaching (http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=267518), but that's just convincing me of something i already know - this is not about micromanagement.

(p.s. - a quick note, and not a question....i'm new to both the game and this forum, and i must say this is the most civilized and sophisticated forum i've ever been a part of :up: )

[Zhaneel]

I do have a FAQ, referenced at my sig line. I think it helps. Other people have told me it does. Feel free to check it out and I will try to check in here from time to time.

Zhaneel

[Rellin]

Thanks Zhaneel, your sig link is the type of stuff I am looking for. Anything else of that nature would help. I noticed in your Macro vs. Micro chapter you wrote about setting economic sliders and such referring to chapter [#-#]

I am assuming these are yet to be wrriten? If so, those sliders, and how setting them in certain ways affects the game is what I am really interested in. When I see the way the Vicroy is spending funds, it sometimes seems crazy. I often see very low research and low military spending, and like every bar is in the orange or red even when set at very low spending levels, is this a function of being a new colony, or is there something I can do to make my money spent be used more effeciently?

Anyway, I will go try to play now for a few hours and see if I can figure this game out once I finish reading your guide.

[Zhaneel]

Yes, to be filled in later.

As for slider stuff, you can check out the thread here on Development Plan Guides and Micromangement settled, but those are pretty deep. Basically, we don't know and there are varied opinions on what is best.

Zhaneel

[Ron_Lugge]

good idea for a thread :up:

Not exactly my idea however, if you check the link I provided at the top of this thread. I just took the basic idea/format of an old thread, and ported it into a brand new one, and got it turned into a sticky.

(p.s. - a quick note, and not a question....i'm new to both the game and this forum, and i must say this is the most civilized and sophisticated forum i've ever been a part of :up: )

Thanks, we try... but unfortunatly, I have to prove you wrong... But first, to make CERTAIN I'm right about something.

Originally posted by Sillycoid
and tell me, how do u ask a question if you cant play the game?

:confused:

Just to make certain, that isn't a wise-*** remark because you feel this game is boring, and you are working not playing? Because if so, I'm really, really, REALLY, upset. I'm tired of those; and this thread is NOT the place for it.

If it wasn't, and was serious, please rephrase. It might be that I'm so friggen TIRED of seeing that type of post, and am seeing it were it doesn't exist.



Also, for those that are curious, I DO intend to edit my opening post, but I do *not* intend to make it a be all end all. You will note a rephrase on it; specificly, making note that you are ALLOWED to jump ahead, read the last couple of posts, and then ask a question without wading through the whole thing. I'm going to ask that people accept this suspension of normal netiquete to help make things easier for the newbs who need help. You will also notice the beginnings of a FAQ, for quickie questions that are often asked, and tend to be one liners.



Ok, now that I have all that junk out of the way...

In *my* early turns, I tend to micro my opening planet by setting up all its DEAs, and microing the build que for a few turns (depending, somewhere up to 30). I que up however many system colony ships are needed to fill out my opening system, and send my colony ship and scouts out exploring (all three of them if there are 3 (or more) lanes; if not I keep my colony ship home and either split up the scouts or send them out together depending on the number of lanes.)

Also, I obsolete ALL the pre-built designs EXCEPT for the colony/system colony ships. I then create a lancer sized system ship, equiping it with as many 1 shot missle tubes as it can hold, and reducing engines to minimum. I also remove all armor/shields.

I then try to make nice to all neighbor's I'm in contact with, barring unusual circumstances. For example, I have a shoot on sight order for any and all Ithkul.

I construct spies, and micro the DEAs on planets I colonize from thereon out, at least untill mid/late game.

Usually, I have an average of 2-3 sitrep items a turn needing my attention; though these tend to come in spurts between spurts of dozens.

I check all diplo, colony established, spy created, and (unless there are a lot) revolt messages. I also keep an eye on some others, but I'm too tired to remember which.

When I conquer a planet, I tend to strip it of the just-landed armies, and replace them with a baby-sitting detachment.

[Craig P.]

Originally posted by ursketchy
good idea for a thread :up:

1) what's the benefit of building an outpost over a colony ship (system or starship, same argument seems to apply)? outputs drop a 1/4 of colony ship's population, then you have to wait it out until it reaches a 1000, which could take who knows how long on a Red 1/2, in order to make it productive. i realize an output is cheaper...but is it really worth the wait until the new planet actually evolves?The outpost ship is MUCH cheaper, so you can build it pretty quickly. Once your population starts to take off, I think you'll find these things turn into colonies pretty quickly, at least if they're good planets. I don't colonize aggressively enough to have much experience with the red planets (one of my known failings, actually).

[Ron_Lugge]

Sorry 'bout the doublepost, but I realized no one had answered some of these...

Originally posted by ursketchy
1) what's the benefit of building an outpost over a colony ship (system or starship, same argument seems to apply)? outputs drop a 1/4 of colony ship's population, then you have to wait it out until it reaches a 1000, which could take who knows how long on a Red 1/2, in order to make it productive. i realize an output is cheaper...but is it really worth the wait until the new planet actually evolves?

Well, depends on the strategic situation. A colony ship is a VERY expensive proposition, and an outpost ship is much cheaper. You can land it on a planet and use "set migration" to create a colony there in a couple of turns after landing. This can be usefull when you want a planet, but not badly enough to send a full colony ship after it. Or, when the planet is red2 and 3/4 of the colony ship's guys are going to die on landing anyway, so you might as well send in a fewer number and use migration to fill it.

2) i get very frustrated with starlanes around turn 50 and on or so. by then, to deploy a colony ship to, what looks like a close system, takes the most roundabout route to get there due to the starlanes, and winds up taking close to 20, or even 30 turns. i've seen that when you try to move from one star to another that you haven't gotten a connected starlane to, it displays some absurd ETA, like ~100 turns. is there any way to "get around" this? am i missing something? incidentally, i know that if you play a cluster, there is, what seems to be, depth involved, but i've mostly played Arm galaxies since....well, it was the default :D

OK, Don't forget that even arm galaxies have depth - the arms are more of less flat, but the core is rounded. Thus, you could have 2 seemingly nearby stars be MUCH farther apart that anything else you see. This is even worse on cluster maps, where you essentially have a giant sphere to deal with.

Also, try upgrading that basic colony ship to have a better engine, or placing mobilization centers towards the edge of your empire. Other than that, get used to long waits. This game has VERY large maps, especially in early game when your engines are slow. Even in late game, it frequently takes my ships 40-80 turns to cross my entire empire - WITH starlanes. This is because I tend to play 3-arm galaxies. The speed is sufficient (on small maps) to give a transit time between any given two points of 5 turns or less... very reasonable, but it gets VERY slow on larger maps.

3) i'm in the same boat as the above poster (Rellin) - i feel like i sit there, turn after turn, and do absolutely nothing. i realize this was built towards macromanagement - that's fine, i can (try to ;) )accept that. but a turn whips by, a bunch of SitRep's pop up...and i'm just as clueless and useless as i was a few seconds ago. i guess this is less of a question, and more of a general comment....i've read Alexfrog's preaching (http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=267518), but that's just convincing me of something i already know - this is not about micromanagement.

Try to find the messages in the sitrep you need to deal with; this is usually stuff the viceroys won't touch. Eventually, you'll get the hang of which sitreps you need to look at and which ones not. I can personally say that most of the time I *DO* have a sitrep to look at. Also, I have to deploy TFs, move them, engage the enemy, etc etc.

[Rellin]

What are DEA requirments on a planet? How many of what do I need on each planet? I was going to try to Micro DEA production on my first few planets when I realized I don't even know what amount of each I need or what is best to have.

How many Government DEAs do you need? One per system or one per planet or more? Would putting two mining in every mountain area be good, farms in plains, and research, gov, recreation, and the like in broken?

Any advice on the frequency and diversity of different DEAs on a planet/system/empire level would be great.

[Rellin]

Also, what exactly happens when I gain the new technologies from researching stuff?

Do I need to go redesign all my ships when I get a new type of engine or something along those lines so that it will be used, or does the ai handle that on its own?

About how long should it be till i see the ai adding stuff to the planetary build que?

[Ron_Lugge]

A) Do NOT double post - its against the rules.

B) My replies:

Originally posted by Rellin
What are DEA requirments on a planet? How many of what do I need on each planet? I was going to try to Micro DEA production on my first few planets when I realized I don't even know what amount of each I need or what is best to have.

DEA requirments vary from planet to planet. *I* prefer to have one government and one recreation on each planet, plus two industrial DEAs. Smaller planets may recieve just one industrial and the government DEA, however. Rec and gov are to handle unrest, as well as produce money (currently broken) or allow system seat buildings respectivly.

Past that, it depends on the planet. I tend to give large planets lots of industry DEAs, with some bioharverst or mining (as appropriate) to provide money. Remember that you have to BUY the PPs that your planet generates to create stuff. Just like the US government has to pay civilians to get them to give it the steel and manhours to produce its ships - sure, the capacity is THERE but you still have to pay to use it.

Smaller planets I focus on things that don't require focus. Since bioharvest needs, mining, and research are handled on an empire level, unlike industry they don't need to be focused.

How many Government DEAs do you need? One per system or one per planet or more? Would putting two mining in every mountain area be good, farms in plains, and research, gov, recreation, and the like in broken?

Generally, I use one a planet. But, each person to his own taste.

Any advice on the frequency and diversity of different DEAs on a planet/system/empire level would be great.

I usually have enough mining/bioharvest DEAs to keep ahead of demand (in early game, not by much because of low yield) and then build research to fill in on small planets and industry to dominate larger ones. Note that in late game, you will have a major overabundance of resources unless you remove some DEAs. You may be tempted to do so, but I'd recomend against it. A) too much micromanagement, B) you earn money for selling it.

Originally posted by Rellin
Also, what exactly happens when I gain the new technologies from researching stuff?

Tech tree works like this:

1) you research up to a given tech level.(ie, you're doing "blue-sky" research into theory, and exploring the universe. Its "pure science" instead of applied.)
2) You begin researching the applications for that tech level (ie the stuff you can actually use, or applied science)
3) You get the stuff. Depending on what it is, you have to install it in ships, build it on planets, or just enjoy its effects empire-wide.

[qutoe]Do I need to go redesign all my ships when I get a new type of engine or something along those lines so that it will be used, or does the ai handle that on its own? [/quote]

You have to do ALL redisigns; though the AI will do a decent (but not perfect) job of autobuilding when you tell it to.

Meaning, that while YOU have to initiate the process, its usually a matter of selecting the ship size/mission/type you want and hitting auto-design.

Note that I tend to use auto-design to get the name, then pull everything out and design the ship myself - when you get more familiar with the game, you can try that. I tend to do things VERY differently from the AI, speccifically:

A) I always max out armor/shields on my interstellar ships
B) I usually add light guns of some type to my ships for PD
C) I usually use light mounts for PD
D) When I design a carrier, I have a few fighters designed to hit hard, and a LOT designed to help create the swarm effect needed to saturate PD.
E) On larger IF/Carrier ships, I tend to add a few large beams to help deal with any enemies that get in close

About how long should it be till i see the ai adding stuff to the planetary build que?

The AI usually adds stuff automaticly; however, remember that the planetary build que won't always have anything FOR them to build. And some things they won't build because theirs no need. For example, the AI will NEVER build an imperial seat (one per empire) or a system seat (once there's already one in system).

[Rellin]

What do you mean by bioharvesting, mining, and research are handled on an empire level? You mean all the food I produce is shared on all planets throughout my empire without me doing anything?

I played Civ 3 a ton, and in that food is set per city, and if this is different and food is shared, as well as research and mining, that would be nice.

Also, thanks for those fast replys, helping me out a ton in the game I am playing.

I keep seeing an exclamation point and do not enter symbol on my sliders for normal econmic devlopment, I am thinking the do not enter means something like it cant spend any more money on the planet cause all DEAs that could fit were built and I had nothing to build in planetary que thing, is this correct?

What is typical percentage you put into military spending on a planet and normal economic development when there are thing to build? Should I be trying to save money and massing a large bank, or spending every dime I get in a race to build a power base and expand quickly?

Gah, so many questions, I could go on and on, but Ill stop here and go mess around some more with it...

[Da_Blade]

Food and minerals are shared on an empire level, without cost or penalty, so you don't need bioharvest and mine on every planet. Research is naturally also added to a large pool, production is on a planetary basis, though every ship and ground troop produced gets added to a big pool, the reserve, which can be mobilized in any system with a controlled mobilization centre.

Now, the exclamation mark means you are spending more then what is needed to complete the whole planetary queue. Do not worry, money never dissapears in MoO3, if you ever spend too much on a slider, the extra money will be returned. The "do no enter" sign means there is nothing more to build, or that you do not have the apprpriate technology (in case of terraforming).

Saving or spending? Well, there is discussion about that. It's a strategy. I'll explain the consequences of both and let you make your own choice.

Industrial spending has a return that depends on the amount of industry there is on a world. The industry points are a indicator for the industrialization of the world. Spending money on the production sliders yeilds Production Points, which are actual production. The more industrialized a world is, the cheaper Production Points will be.

When a colony just starts, it gets a planetary grant from your empire. The amount your empires gives out as a whole can be controlled under the finances tab, under planetary grants. You cannot control which planet gets exactly how much. Now, because of this grant new colony's will often have money a-plenty. The trouble is, your new colonies do not have (much) industry yet.

Now a colony that just started does not have much industry yet, so if you spend all that money, the return gives very little extra to spending say 30% of all that money. While if you save it and spend it later on, you get better returns. However, spending it all means the colony does develop faster, while saving means a slower development. So you stand for the choice to develop fast but expensive or slow and "cheap". Personally, i like to develop fast and expensive. Mostly because you will hardly ever run into real money problems. MoO3 is a system where money is very important, but you will almost never run into bankruptcy or real shortages of it, though you can always use more. For this reason i prefer to spend a lot of it and save just a little bit, but there is some major discussing about that. MoO3 is a game of so many good strategies that discussions about strategy almost seem useless, since there are a ton of good strategies, and they're all equally advantegous or disadvitageous (are they words actually? sorry me no english have first language ;)).

So try out either one, spend a lot and grow faster or spend little and grow slower. My personal advice is spend a lot, though i'll probably get crucified by some people now :D

[Rellin]

It seems as though the AI agrees with your advice though, I just set up a new colony (started a new game, actually seem to start a new one every 20 turns, but anyway...) and I let the ai handle it to see what it does as far as spending and DEAs.

The AI had my Planet Dev spending at like 93% which was dark red bar, and very little military and no research. I switched it up a bit so it was like 80% and some military and no research cause Id like to get a few more ships (which leads to another question later in thos post).

I actually use your dev plans that I saw in a few threads Blade, using them, the first thing the AI built on my new colony was a Industry DEA, is that good? I know you prob need some more info, but it was a Green 1 Planet.

Which ship types should I be building, and how many, in the begining of the game? I am building now, like 5 scout types, some colony ships, 5 system defense sr type, 5 starship lr attack type, and built one orbital defense long range thing. I don't know at all how many of these things I need if I get attacked or want to do some attacking. How many Orbital Defense things do I need? And do they defend the system or the planet? Do I need both LR and SR types or weapons, or should I make two seperate more specialized versions, etc.

How important is ECM and ECCM and Detection Arrays and other assorted special items to have on your ships? I like having certain numbers of weapons, not just what I cam fit, so if I have extra room I have been putting in ECM or Detection, or whatever on the ship to fill in the space, is this worth it? Should I make it a cheaper ship and leave off those items if they arn't needed or used much?

Hopefully I am not asking questions easily found in a thread two below this one, feel free to kick me in the head if I am.

[Da_Blade]

Well, if you are playing a single player game (which i assume you do) i would advice you to be easy on the defensive ships. that is system and orbitals. The current opponent AIs are quite unable to do some reasonable damage so the only reason you should build system ships is to batle piracy and stop a minimum assault.

Now, in the beginning your main focus should be expansion (as most TBS games). So build a lot of colony ships and i keep the number of star ships in the beginning to 50-80% of number of new colony's. That way you can mobilize several fleet to bash enemy scouts out bloackading your systems.

Later on, military becomes more important obviously. Designing ships is another strategic choice. Personally i like very specialized roles for my ships, so carriers carry fighters, recons recon, long range ships have beam weapons etc. I find it adds both to gameplay and to fleet effectiveness, the mix of ships lets you decide what you rely on most, and you can easily change if that is needed.

In the beginning both ECM, ECCM and sensors are not of much use yet. once you progress a bit in technology, and get a few extra beam weapons i'd think about puttin a sensor on some of your ships. Once cloaking device technology hits, be prepared to do make dedicated sensor ships to weed out those pescy cloaked buggers, and bash some missiles in their hull before they get close.

Combat is something where i'd rely on the autobuild for now if i were you. Though the autobuild is far from perfect, it does yield some good ships untill you get the hang of combat yourself first. Stay away from stealth untill you get cloaking devices, after that i'd advice always using a cloaking device...

Edit: oh and i forgot: system ships will be able to defend any planet in the system and intercept fleets travelling to or through the system. Orbitals will only be able to defend the planet on which they were build.

[Bhruic]

Originally posted by Rellin
The AI had my Planet Dev spending at like 93% which was dark red bar, and very little military and no research. I switched it up a bit so it was like 80% and some military and no research cause Id like to get a few more ships (which leads to another question later in thos post).

I actually use your dev plans that I saw in a few threads Blade, using them, the first thing the AI built on my new colony was a Industry DEA, is that good? I know you prob need some more info, but it was a Green 1 Planet.

Building an industry first is generally looked at as a Good Thing. Every type of "construction" that a planet does uses production points (PPs). The number of PPs a planet produces is a factor of two things: the amount of industry, and the amount of money being spent. So in order to build things faster on a planet, you want to either increase the amount of money you are generating (and spending), or increase the amount of industry the planet has (or both). However, increasing just the money runs into diminishing returns. The more money you spend, the less effective that money is. So the best way to produce more is to build industry.

With that in mind, building an industrial DEA first means that everything else you want to build on a planet is built faster. The computer will almost always start an industrial DEA first on a planet, and you'll probably want to leave that alone.

As for your tinkering with the sliders, you might find that you are being a bit premature. A newly colonized planet is many, many turns away from contributing to your military. You need to get a decent infastructure built before that can happen. Increasing the MBQ (military build queue) slider at such an early point will result in that money effectively being "wasted".

Bh

[elloco999]

Originaly posted by: Ron_Lugge
For example, "How do I (Or what IS) back-fill(ing) my empire?" Is good, whereas "Whats a good race to backfill with" isn't.
Ok, let's see if I can follow these simple rules:

What is back-filling?:D

[Da_Blade]

Assuming you ment your question, backfilling is colonizing uncolonized baitable planets in your empire. I usually do it after conquering somebody else's empire. You have a sitiuation that looks like this then:

You have a large portion of space under your control, inhabited by one race, and another by another race. Both portions have uncolonized planets that are suitable for the other race, while unsuitable for the race inhabiting that region.

So what you do is go to planets screen and click the "similar environment", "uncontrolled" and "Within borders". You then select your race from the species list. This gives a list of all planets within your borders suitable by your main race. You then flag all these for colonization and build a batch of colony ships from your main race.

When they are colonized, you do the same, but this time choose the conquered race and start building colony ships on the conquered colony's.

This way you conquer one empire, and effectively expand another 2 empires :D This way you quickly gain control of a lot of planets, enabling you to get huge production going in the end, since with a few races you can colonize just about every planet in your controlled space.

[Kahless]

I have a few questions too, regarding blockading systems:

What exactly does blockading a system block? I think food and mineral supplies are, but is the money that the blockaded system should receive from the empire or the taxes going from that system to the empire also blocked? And does the blockade only affect everything trying to leave/enter the system, or also the transfer of goods within a system (ie between planets in the same system)?

The reason this is important to me is that I like to make specialized planets, but try to make each system more or less self sufficient, in an attempt to keep my planets working even during a blockade. So, is this strategy working, or will the specialized planets be in big trouble when blockaded because they're totally cut off from the rest of the empire, even from the other planets in the system?

[ursketchy]

Originally posted by Ron_Lugge
Well, depends on the strategic situation. A colony ship is a VERY expensive proposition, and an outpost ship is much cheaper. You can land it on a planet and use "set migration" to create a colony there in a couple of turns after landing. This can be usefull when you want a planet, but not badly enough to send a full colony ship after it. Or, when the planet is red2 and 3/4 of the colony ship's guys are going to die on landing anyway, so you might as well send in a fewer number and use migration to fill it.
ah ha! see, i knew i was missing something...this whole migration thing. completely blew by me. just re-read Zhaneel's section on General Tips, and it had a blurb about migrating.
me don't feel so smart no mo'http://smilies.crowd9.com/cwm/cwm/rcain.gif
OK, Don't forget that even arm galaxies have depth - the arms are more of less flat, but the core is rounded. Thus, you could have 2 seemingly nearby stars be MUCH farther apart that anything else you see. This is even worse on cluster maps, where you essentially have a giant sphere to deal with.

Also, try upgrading that basic colony ship to have a better engine, or placing mobilization centers towards the edge of your empire. Other than that, get used to long waits. This game has VERY large maps, especially in early game when your engines are slow. Even in late game, it frequently takes my ships 40-80 turns to cross my entire empire - WITH starlanes. This is because I tend to play 3-arm galaxies. The speed is sufficient (on small maps) to give a transit time between any given two points of 5 turns or less... very reasonable, but it gets VERY slow on larger maps.
that's another thing i missed out on, the purpose of mobilization centers...yeah yeah, i'll RTFM some other time :D

few questions about technology...

i thought i remember reading in another post that the tech's you receive are random (similar to MoO2, uncreative...sort of), and that the requirements for certain techs to "unlock" them are not necessarily random, but different from game to game. i know this sounds absurd, and i probably may have misread it.

also....what in the blue hell is "overrun"? i was always big into being a tech giant, so choosing Creativity: Original (or whatever the highest pick is) seemed like a must....but i just can't tell a difference in how my tech's progressing (speed-wise).

thanks for all your help guys :up:

[Bhruic]

Originally posted by ursketchy
i thought i remember reading in another post that the tech's you receive are random (similar to MoO2, uncreative...sort of), and that the requirements for certain techs to "unlock" them are not necessarily random, but different from game to game. i know this sounds absurd, and i probably may have misread it.

That's not exactly how it works. When the game is started, your tech tree is "populated". Depending on your race and creativity level, you get a certain percentage of the techs in your tree (to a maximum of 90%). Each tech is assigned a level that is +/-2 of the "default" level.

i was always big into being a tech giant, so choosing Creativity: Original (or whatever the highest pick is) seemed like a must....but i just can't tell a difference in how my tech's progressing (speed-wise).

The Creativity pick doesn't actually speed up your research at all. What it does (or, one of the things) is increase the number of techs available in your tech tree. To increase your research speed, you'll want to bump up the Research ability.

Bh

[zanzibar]

Originally posted by Craig P.
Musts:
Dispatch scouts (and possibly the colony ship, depending on how much you want to gamble) to adjacent systems
Evaluate the current system - do you want to set up outposts or colonies? If so, go the the MBQ (military build queue) at your home planet and stick in one or more system outpost ships / system colony ships (note that a system outpost design doesn't exist initially).

Things you'll definitely do once you get more comfortable:
Set up some initial development plans.
Tweak your initial ship designs to augment your initial capabilities, or replace the initial designs altogether if it doesn't suit your combat preferences

Things you may do once you get more comfortable, depending on your play style:
Zone out your homeworld.
Adjust empire-wide policies to suit your play-style.
Adjust tax rates to suit your play-style.

Don't forget to:

1) check the foreign relations screen, and make diplomatic offers
2) recruit some spies. Even if you are alone on the diplomacy screen, you will soon be encountering other races.

(I still wish refit was in, for turn 1... 'cause the initial hawk defense designs totally blow...)

[zanzibar]

Originally posted by Rellin
What are DEA requirments on a planet? How many of what do I need on each planet? I was going to try to Micro DEA production on my first few planets when I realized I don't even know what amount of each I need or what is best to have.


This is usually what I go for on DEA's for each planet (of course, it depends on the race you are playing...):
1 Government/system (more about this later)
1 Military/planet (allows certain stacking bonuses and faster beam bases, etc... later in the game)
1-3 Bioharvest (depending on the size of the planet, etc...)
Now, I evaluate the mineral richness... if it's:
1) Mineral rich or better: 1-2 reasearch DEA's, fill the rest of the planet with mines
2) Average: 2-3 research, equal amount of mines and factories
3) less then average: 2-3 research, fill the rest with factories

How many Government DEAs do you need? One per system or one per planet or more? Would putting two mining in every mountain area be good, farms in plains, and research, gov, recreation, and the like in broken?

See above for general strategy. I only use recreation on planets that are losing money. This allows a higher tax rate, etc... and then, I only use 1 at the most. And you really only need 1 govt./system.

Any advice on the frequency and diversity of different DEAs on a planet/system/empire level would be great. [/B]

You're welcome!! :)

[zanzibar]

Originally posted by Rellin
Also, what exactly happens when I gain the new technologies from researching stuff?

It really depends on the technology. Some are planet enhancements, some are ship enhancements, etc...

Do I need to go redesign all my ships when I get a new type of engine or something along those lines so that it will be used, or does the ai handle that on its own?

First, no, the AI doesn't completely design ships for you. However, it can do it, in a limited way. More on that later. Generally, I only design ships when I see quite a lot of ship technology become available, or a new hull size is around. For example, I micro my entire military build ques (sorry, I don't need 5,000 troop ships...), so when it's time to build a new ship, that's when I design. Now, how do you get the AI to design a ship? Simple: Click on fleets, click on the design new ship tab, and there is a button for auto-build, after you decide what kind of ship it is (Ship size, system, orbital, or starship, and mission in life). However, clicking this button doesn't really give you the best possible design (for example, a carrier won't have any point defense, and a long range attack may not use those spinal mounted rail guns with armor piercing warheads). So, after clicking auto build, I examine the computer's suggestion, modify the ship to how I want, then click confirm design. Next, I go and obsolete whatever ships this new design is replacing.

About how long should it be till i see the ai adding stuff to the planetary build que? [/B]

It really depends on your production and spending sliders on any given planet. Generally, the tech is available the turn it says it is, and you can usually see the direct effects 1-10 turns later.

[zanzibar]

Originally posted by Kahless
I have a few questions too, regarding blockading systems:

What exactly does blockading a system block? I think food and mineral supplies are, but is the money that the blockaded system should receive from the empire or the taxes going from that system to the empire also blocked? And does the blockade only affect everything trying to leave/enter the system, or also the transfer of goods within a system (ie between planets in the same system)?

I believe it blocks all trade within that system. This is why it's a good idea to build a few bioharvest DEA's/planet in case you get blockaded. I haven't allowed the computer to blockade me for very long, so I can't say whether it blocks empire grants or not.

The reason this is important to me is that I like to make specialized planets, but try to make each system more or less self sufficient, in an attempt to keep my planets working even during a blockade. So, is this strategy working, or will the specialized planets be in big trouble when blockaded because they're totally cut off from the rest of the empire, even from the other planets in the system?

Generally, it's a good strategy, if you build a lot of system defense in that system. I wouldn't go with specialized planets, without a good system defense.

[Aardgoya]

Does the planet destroyer mission ship have any planet destruction ability without a stellar converter?, i.e. is a stellar converter the only weapon that destoys a planet? :confused:

Also, what is the effect of adding multiple Locator systems to a ship (I know that multiple ECCMs increase the detection of ships) - but what 'bout the Locator systems (any of the 4 available)?

[Zhaneel]

Only Settler Converter will autobuild there.

I have considered experiementing with creating custom Planet Destroyer ships that are good for harvester clensing just so I can tell them apart from my combat IF ships.

Zhaneel

[fdlu]

Please advice:

How can I make the VR to build manually placed DEAs ?

I am still playing the game more or less for testing purposes, to learn the ropes so to speak. Time constraints and waiting for the code patch.
I used this da_blades examples as kind of a blueprint to test the dev. plans and get a feel for them.
Test game has 3 settled planets (turn 6) with 3 more to settle.
I tried out da-blades suggestions. Esp. the government dev.plan.
But I noticed the following: Whenever I laid in a government DEA all (!!!) additional building and planning by the VR stopped. Gov.DEA lingers in planned. Nothing else gets build after it. VR will finish his until then planned DEAs but after that nothing more. How come ? After deleting it the VR will build up the planet (no gov., only if I include it in another plan, then often get 2 or more).

Thanks for any reply.

[Ron_Lugge]

Originally posted by zanzibar For example, I micro my entire military build ques (sorry, I don't need 5,000 troop ships...)

Try just leaving troop ships obsoleted. When you need to build some, unobsolete them, and place them in the build ques manually. Then re-obsolete them before processing the turn.

It really depends on your production and spending sliders on any given planet. Generally, the tech is available the turn it says it is, and you can usually see the direct effects 1-10 turns later.

The tech will usually be ready NEAR the turn it says, however it can have an overrun (ie they hit a roadblock and can't get past it; can be positive OR negative in the end - if its positive, you get a bonus out of it). They also sometimes hit the reverse of an overrun.

Originally posted by Kahless
I have a few questions too, regarding blockading systems:

What exactly does blockading a system block? I think food and mineral supplies are, but is the money that the blockaded system should receive from the empire or the taxes going from that system to the empire also blocked? And does the blockade only affect everything trying to leave/enter the system, or also the transfer of goods within a system (ie between planets in the same system)?

You blockade a system; however, planets within the system can still trade with eachother.

The reason this is important to me is that I like to make specialized planets, but try to make each system more or less self sufficient, in an attempt to keep my planets working even during a blockade. So, is this strategy working, or will the specialized planets be in big trouble when blockaded because they're totally cut off from the rest of the empire, even from the other planets in the system? [/B]

Specialization is the ONLY way to go for manufacturing planets (ie planets that can actually produce things in a reasonable timeframe), and is often the most effiecient approach for everything else.

Originally posted by fdlu
How can I make the VR to build manually placed DEAs ?


Sounds like you have insufficient population - if there aren't any people in the area, there isn't anyone to build the DEA so the VR can't build it. Either that, or since there's no one to run it if it IS built, the CR doesn't bother building stuff that will just sit around, empty.

[triller]

I'm a forum noob; tanx to all participants for the plethora of knowledge and insight.

Can you (and if so how do you) launch fighters at a target when controlling combat (CV TF)?

[DavidByron]

I do have a FAQ, referenced at my sig line

What a shameless plug! :D

Actually I have read it. Perhaps the initial post could be edited to shamelessly plug it some more. It's comprehensive.

[Rellin]

I am using one of Blade's Dev plans that I saw posted about, and I am seeing only two bioharvesting DEAs on all my planets, which is about 10. I have just enough food right now to feed what I need but I don't see any Farming DEAs being planned or being built. Am I doing something wrong, or do I need more farming DEAs? Will the ai only make more farming DEAs on new planets when I need more of them to keep my people fed? Or will he stick one on each planet just to be sure every planet is making some food?

A bunch of my planets have every region developed as far as DEAs are concerned and can't fit anymore. Will I have to remove some of the mining DEAs (of which there are a ton on each planet it seems) and make them inot farming DEAs by if there is not enough food?

As the Tachidi do I need less food? I am seeing that my sweet spot planets are Hard Scrabble and my home world only has two farming DEAs which feed my entire empire (about 10 planets). Does this mean hard scrabble is the best fertility rating for this race? Would that make a Lush area less ideal for farming to the insects?

At what point should I start looking to settle less then Green 2 planets? If I have about 3 green planets and my home world on my starting system, will I ever settle the other planets in that system that are red?

Could someone post or point me to a link that basically describes what hull sizes are best for what mission type? Maybe also what weapons go good with what mission type and hull size. I don't see the point to ever using short range type ships as of yet.

I also do not see "Fighters" anywhere. I see fighter chassis on certain types of weapons, but I don't see mission class ships for fighters. How do I make fighters, do they auto load into carriers, or is there something to do that as well?

The Super Space Fighter Base, Beam Base, Missle Base, etc, are they any good? I can't figure out what they do. I built a Super space fighter base, but still don't see any sort of fighter hull to choose from. I know I am simply missing something here, can someone please explain it for me?

[Da_Blade]

Originally posted by Rellin
I am using one of Blade's Dev plans that I saw posted about, and I am seeing only two bioharvesting DEAs on all my planets, which is about 10. I have just enough food right now to feed what I need but I don't see any Farming DEAs being planned or being built. Am I doing something wrong, or do I need more farming DEAs? Will the ai only make more farming DEAs on new planets when I need more of them to keep my people fed? Or will he stick one on each planet just to be sure every planet is making some food?

A bunch of my planets have every region developed as far as DEAs are concerned and can't fit anymore. Will I have to remove some of the mining DEAs (of which there are a ton on each planet it seems) and make them inot farming DEAs by if there is not enough food?

As long as you are feeding what you have you are doing alright. If you feel you have to little food, change the dev plans. Like i said in the post, dev plans shouldn't be fixed, change them to your needs. In this particular case i would put Farm primary on the all planets and mine secondary, that should give just a little more incentive for building farms. Also, a little micromanagement in begginning might be needed too. In Tom Hughes' Economics 101 (http://www.ina-community.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=273336&perpage=30&pagenumber=5) thread, page 5, it is explained how biological DEAs work. The fertility rates are, from bad to good: Hostile; Barren; Subsistence; Hardscrabble; Arable; Fertile; Alluvial; Lush.


As the Tachidi do I need less food? I am seeing that my sweet spot planets are Hard Scrabble and my home world only has two farming DEAs which feed my entire empire (about 10 planets). Does this mean hard scrabble is the best fertility rating for this race? Would that make a Lush area less ideal for farming to the insects?

No, the names are the same for any race. So for each race Lush is the best fertility. What makes a region Lush is dependant on it's local ecosystem density, which is the color of the leaf you'll see in that region, and the planet's habitibility ring. Since the baitibility ring is different for each race, the region might be lush to your race, but toxic to another.


At what point should I start looking to settle less then Green 2 planets? If I have about 3 green planets and my home world on my starting system, will I ever settle the other planets in that system that are red?

Red2 won't be worth it for a long while. Yellow planets might be worth it though, especially after some terraforming technology. Though unhabitable worlds are only worth living on if they are mineral rich, or when you got the technology to terraform it into submission. But since you have a food problem and not a mineral problem, i'd advice leaving those planets alone for a bit and search for more habitable planets. You can always colonize those yellow worlds later.


Could someone post or point me to a link that basically describes what hull sizes are best for what mission type? Maybe also what weapons go good with what mission type and hull size. I don't see the point to ever using short range type ships as of yet.

Short range ships get very powerfull later in the game, when you have weapons that do massive damage but lack the range of some of the weaker beam weapons. As for sizes, usually it's best to keep something like 2 sizes under the maximum size you can build, to make production a bit cheaper. But thats a tactical descision, i like the flexibility a lot of cheap ships give me. Some prefer bigger stronger ships since they are harder to kill. Same with weapons, some specialize and some make general ships designs. In visage's Space Combat Mechanis Guide (http://www.ina-community.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=290129) you'll find the specifications of all weapons, and what everything doe exactly. In theArmada design (http://www.ina-community.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=292155) thread you will find usefull discussions and opinions on designing ships and armada's.


I also do not see "Fighters" anywhere. I see fighter chassis on certain types of weapons, but I don't see mission class ships for fighters. How do I make fighters, do they auto load into carriers, or is there something to do that as well?


If you autobuild a carrier class ship, it will be equipped with star control fighters and interceptor bays. These will automatically launch fighters in combat when you give them a target. No need to build every fighter, fighters and missiles are considered auto-produced and resupplied. No need to control the prodction of these.


The Super Space Fighter Base, Beam Base, Missle Base, etc, are they any good? I can't figure out what they do. I built a Super space fighter base, but still don't see any sort of fighter hull to choose from. I know I am simply missing something here, can someone please explain it for me?

These are simply planetary defense bases. When somebody will attack your planet you will notice you can launch fighters, missiles and even shoot beams, according to the bases built on the planet. In the early game they are quite strong, but later in the game they are easy targets.

[Ron_Lugge]

Originally posted by triller
Can you (and if so how do you) launch fighters at a target when controlling combat (CV TF)?

No manual control possible; just find an enemy TF and attack it to launch.

Originally posted by Rellin
I am using one of Blade's Dev plans that I saw posted about, and I am seeing only two bioharvesting DEAs on all my planets, which is about 10. I have just enough food right now to feed what I need but I don't see any Farming DEAs being planned or being built. Am I doing something wrong, or do I need more farming DEAs? Will the ai only make more farming DEAs on new planets when I need more of them to keep my people fed? Or will he stick one on each planet just to be sure every planet is making some food?

Farming DEAs? No such thing. There are only bioharvest DEAs.

Could someone post or point me to a link that basically describes what hull sizes are best for what mission type? Maybe also what weapons go good with what mission type and hull size. I don't see the point to ever using short range type ships as of yet.

Bigger=better

However, bigger ships can take too long to build. Generally, 2-3 ship sizes less than your max is a good idea.

*I* personally use the maximum size most of the time, but I play a production race...

I also do not see "Fighters" anywhere. I see fighter chassis on certain types of weapons, but I don't see mission class ships for fighters. How do I make fighters, do they auto load into carriers, or is there something to do that as well?

Fighters are micromanagement; they are all handled for you. They are automaticly loaded up onto the ship after its built. If you're thinking of SEIV style fighters, they don't exist.

[Rellin]

Thanks again guys. I am still a total newb, but learning because of these forums. The Armada Design thread is very helpful, god I wish I could alt tab out to these forums while playing!

As a total noob would it be better to start in the senate or out? How often do you trade techs? How can I find the comparative value of different techs, I am sure there are some things I shouldn't give the AI if I can help it, and others I should be trying to get that are extremely important.

As of now, when I meet someone in game, I totally start offering trade and research alliances and whatever other friendly things I can do, but really nothing seems to come of it unless I initiate exchanges of techs myself, though once they accept a tech trade, I still see the techs they already gave me in there list to trade again. Does this not update when you gain new techs?

I seem to get into combat with no warning. I will send my scout or colony ship to so and so system/star and when it gets there, I have to go into combat with someone either by blockaiding the system or assaulting the planet, or intercept fleet or hold position. At times its that nasty Guardian, but others it is another race. Do I have to fight another race that is in any system I go to? Is there anyway to detect that a hostile enemy is at an unexplored system so you don't have to engage in combat with them? How can I contact them diplomatically to let them know I come in peace?

One last thing (this post heh), is there any way to set team colors so that they stay the same for each race. Or to assure that no two teams have colors that are very alike? I keep seeing these two neon green/yellow colors that look basically the same and it makes it a bit more difficult to tell what belongs to who, though I guess it doesn't matter as they all spy on me and kill my leaders and blow up my stuff, oh they will pay dearly for it, eventually, oh yes indeed.

[Fred Fnord]

I started as a non-member. I can't figure out if there is a way to join the senate.

I assume I'd 'join' the senate if I were to invade the Orion system (which I've found) and destroy everything that moved, in that I would BE the Orion senate, but I was hoping for a less drastic solution, especially since I sort of can't actually manage that.

-fred

[Da_Blade]

Originally posted by Rellin
Thanks again guys. I am still a total newb, but learning because of these forums. The Armada Design thread is very helpful, god I wish I could alt tab out to these forums while playing!

You can. Whenever you get a "directx surface unaviable", press ctrl+alt+esc. I never had it not work after that.


I seem to get into combat with no warning. I will send my scout or colony ship to so and so system/star and when it gets there, I have to go into combat with someone either by blockaiding the system or assaulting the planet, or intercept fleet or hold position. At times its that nasty Guardian, but others it is another race. Do I have to fight another race that is in any system I go to? Is there anyway to detect that a hostile enemy is at an unexplored system so you don't have to engage in combat with them? How can I contact them diplomatically to let them know I come in peace?

If you choose "Blockade System" and he chooses the same, no combat ensues. Some races prefer to fight, even if it's scout to scout. But you do not always have to fight. As for diplomacy, offering trade techs is about the only thing you can do. Some races have racial hate between them though, so some races you'll never be friends with. the saurians and fishes for example hate each other, nothing can be done about it.


One last thing (this post heh), is there any way to set team colors so that they stay the same for each race. Or to assure that no two teams have colors that are very alike? I keep seeing these two neon green/yellow colors that look basically the same and it makes it a bit more difficult to tell what belongs to who, though I guess it doesn't matter as they all spy on me and kill my leaders and blow up my stuff, oh they will pay dearly for it, eventually, oh yes indeed.
Sorry, there's no way to help this.

[Rellin]

Isn't blockadeing a system a hostile action? When scouting and finding these new planets which I must assault or bloackade, I don't want to piss any of my neighbors off at this point, I was just passing through and seeing the sights. Is there anyway to leave the system without acting hostile (assuming bloackadeing is actually a hostile action).

Is it just a plain and simple rule of the game that you can not enter a system that has had a planet colonized by another empire without being hostile, as entering the system is a hostile action in itself?

[Ron_Lugge]

Originally posted by Rellin
As a total noob would it be better to start in the senate or out? How often do you trade techs? How can I find the comparative value of different techs, I am sure there are some things I shouldn't give the AI if I can help it, and others I should be trying to get that are extremely important.

If your playing a galaxy instead of a cluster map, OUT is a great idea - not only does it vastly simplify diplomacy, it also makes the galaxy map easier to deal with (because its almost 2-d along the arms). Otherwise, doesn't matter much.

[quote]As of now, when I meet someone in game, I totally start offering trade and research alliances and whatever other friendly things I can do, but really nothing seems to come of it unless I initiate exchanges of techs myself, though once they accept a tech trade, I still see the techs they already gave me in there list to trade again. Does this not update when you gain new techs?

It takes one turn after accept/refuse for the diplo screen to update. Also, remember to use the RIGHT emphasis for the right people.

Sakkra: Demand
Eoladi: Reason
Human: Reason
Grendarl: Reason
Trilarian: Reason
Tachidi: Declare
Imsaes: Declare
Evon: Beg
Klackon: Aruge
Cynoid: State
Silicoid: State
Raas: Reason

I think thats all the ones I know...

I seem to get into combat with no warning. I will send my scout or colony ship to so and so system/star and when it gets there, I have to go into combat with someone either by blockaiding the system or assaulting the planet, or intercept fleet or hold position. At times its that nasty Guardian, but others it is another race. Do I have to fight another race that is in any system I go to? Is there anyway to detect that a hostile enemy is at an unexplored system so you don't have to engage in combat with them? How can I contact them diplomatically to let them know I come in peace?

If the enemy want a fight, he can get one. Blockading is the ONLY option you can select when he has a planet, unfortunatly.

Originally posted by Fred Fnord
I started as a non-member. I can't figure out if there is a way to join the senate.

I assume I'd 'join' the senate if I were to invade the Orion system (which I've found) and destroy everything that moved, in that I would BE the Orion senate, but I was hoping for a less drastic solution, especially since I sort of can't actually manage that.

-fred

LOL Nice solution, but it wouldn't work.

You have to get voted into the senate. Generally, this occurs when you're starting to get pretty large (eg, everyones afraid of you so they try to placate you) but not too large (everyone declares total war on you).

Note that you can be in/out in/out of the senate often; I had one game where I seemed to be playing "musical membership" or something (in/out about 20 times)

Isn't blockadeing a system a hostile action? When scouting and finding these new planets which I must assault or bloackade, I don't want to piss any of my neighbors off at this point, I was just passing through and seeing the sights. Is there anyway to leave the system without acting hostile (assuming bloackadeing is actually a hostile action).

Is it just a plain and simple rule of the game that you can not enter a system that has had a planet colonized by another empire without being hostile, as entering the system is a hostile action in itself?

Its the way things are, unfortunatly. Generally, they don't try to cause TOO much difficulty about it, however. A blockade and move on will work, unless you're talking about someone's core systems.

[Fred Fnord]

I guess my next question should be, if they won't let me into the Orion senate, how do I keep them from electing someone to head the Orion senate, thus ending the game at around turn 150? This has happened to me in both games that I've played out that long.

Or am I supposed to have won by then anyway? For a game in a large-ish galaxy that seems rather a short time...

-fred

[triller]

Originally posted by Fred Fnord
I guess my next question should be, if they won't let me into the Orion senate, how do I keep them from electing someone to head the Orion senate, thus ending the game at around turn 150? This has happened to me in both games that I've played out that long.

Or am I supposed to have won by then anyway? For a game in a large-ish galaxy that seems rather a short time...

-fred

I've had the same thing happen in a 2 arm spiral @ ~ turn 250.
Maybe unchecking Senate in the Victory conditions will stop this.
I'm trying this in my current game.

[Rellin]

Ok. I am playing my first game past turn 200 thanks to you all, I really appreciate it. I was voted as leader of the senate in turn 150 or so, but had that win option turned off, as well as the Xs. The game is really fun imo, and I read that entire patch post, and can't wait for that to come out.

I installed Colin Greys mod, I played on easy (Suprising eh?) and I am totally owning it seems. I am well ahead in techs, I am getting planets from my Ithkul neighbors slowly but surely. Three other races love me, that at first were indifferent or worse. I have decent ships that win when outnumbered (which is rare) and crush when prepared for battle. Man, I got to say, tech slowdown made this game a ton more manageable and fun imo. My ships stay in thier desgin for a long while before I need to upgrade them all.

I am still seeing the the trickle of small invasion fleets from the AI military into my worlds. They send like 3-5 ships into my newly conquered systems where I have two armadas or whatever and I obliterate them. Is there a mod that makes the military more agressive/large for the AI then Colin's that anyone knows of? I don't want a mod pack that changes a million things, just the military AI for now really.

I got some hardcore unrest when my expansionism bloomed. When you all play, how many orbitals/system ships do you make per system? I don't make system ships cause they seem kinda pointless when you can make ships that can actually go anywhere for a bit more, I make like one or two orbitals and then the three bases (beam, missle, and space fighter) is this alright? Do I need more? Seems my one oribital (frigate size so all planets can make first thing) with lasers and fighters can destroy 4 or 5 enemy ships easy.

Lastly, and most importantly. Tell me if this is right. You have Manufacturing DEAs which inturn give you Industry. Is Industry pooled like minerals and food for the entire empire or is it planetary (I think its planetary). But the minerals the manufacturing plants use, can come from any planet in the empire right? So as long as I have a bunch of manufacturing plants on a planet, and other planets make the minerals, then my production will be fine on the industrial planet?

Are there any tips for placing DEAs besides mines in mountains and bioharvesting in plains? Bioharvesting in green leaf places I know as well. Are there any secret rules or tips to increase production capacity? Couldn't you theoretically put all manufacturing DEAs on a planet, and keep it fed with both food and minerals from other planets?

The Ai is only building on Government DEA on one planet per system using Blade's dev plans (well very very close to the same) and once it didn't even make a Gov DEA in a system and I had to rip something out to put one in. Is one enough per system?

Occassionaly I will look into a planets infrastucture only to find on this mineral poor/low fertility world, there are a ton of mining DEAs producing like +1 minerals. I assume I should go and remove all these and put in research or manufacturing DEAs.

Lastly, if I posted a zip of my saved game at like turn 75 and 150, would anyone care to look at it and tell me what I am doing right/wrong, I think that would help me out a ton as well.

[Zhaneel]

Haven't checked here in a while, but I'll take a gash at this.

Rellin, be careful not to post too many questions in one post, otherwise we might have trouble answering and Ron seemed pretty much trying to keep to one question per post, though I could be wrong.

installed Colin Greys mod, I played on easy (Suprising eh?) and I am totally owning it seems

Easy you will. I have no experience with the mod, but Easy is, well, EASY. Especially for large galaxies last game, IMO. Try Meduim or Hard in a smaller, crowded galaxy.

Is there a mod that makes the military more agressive/large for the AI then Colin's that anyone knows of? I don't want a mod pack that changes a million things, just the military AI for now really.

Check the mod forum. ;-)

When you all play, how many orbitals/system ships do you make per system? I don't make system ships cause they seem kinda pointless when you can make ships that can actually go anywhere for a bit more, I make like one or two orbitals and then the three bases (beam, missle, and space fighter) is this alright? Do I need more? Seems my one oribital (frigate size so all planets can make first thing) with lasers and fighters can destroy 4 or 5 enemy ships easy.

I usually have a very low cost and not very powerful starter system defense ship which is built early in a colonies life. I do it for all new colonies early on, and unless I know I'm going to have ships there for a while, late game too. If it is the 2nd or beyond planet in a system, then I'll upgrade before doing ships. You'll have to manually put in orbitals that are not the smallest, unless your mod changes that. I tend to allow the game to build its 3-5 system defense ships and then put orbitals in my main systems. I always build planetary shields because they have not been disproven to me.

The benefit for system ships is that they do cost less and have more space per hull size beyond the space you save by not having warp engines. But they aren't as great at defense. I use them for piracy more than anything else.

As for the rest of the unrest problems: Check for Gov/Rec/Mil DEAs. You always want at least a gov on any planet with 3 or more regions. Probably a Rec/Mil in addition on 7 or larger planets, or if you have sucky loyalty. Check your oppressometer and look into spending money on unrest. Figure out what is causing the unrest before anything else.

Is Industry pooled like minerals and food for the entire empire or is it planetary (I think its planetary). But the minerals the manufacturing plants use, can come from any planet in the empire right? So as long as I have a bunch of manufacturing plants on a planet, and other planets make the minerals, then my production will be fine on the industrial planet?

Now you're getting into advanced stuff. First, the industry (cement) is planetary. But, yes, the minerals can come from anywhere. So as long as you have enough minerals imported AND you have enough population to staff your industry DEAs, then it will be fine. As long as you have money. Industry DEAs don't make a lot of money on their own. Its best to have at least one money making DEA on an Industry planet and/or a gov DEA with a System Seat there (System seats get all the system taxes).

Are there any tips for placing DEAs besides mines in mountains and bioharvesting in plains? Bioharvesting in green leaf places I know as well. Are there any secret rules or tips to increase production capacity? Couldn't you theoretically put all manufacturing DEAs on a planet, and keep it fed with both food and minerals from other planets?

If you have enough people, which you generally won't. It has been debated about whether research does better in better diversity areas, but not proven.

My theory: Bioharvest in Plains and first in Green areas. Mines in Mountains, don't care about regional habitabilty. Industry in Broken or Plains with green leafs (more people). Research to fill in. Government in Broken with Green leafs (high Pop DEA). Mil/Rec where they'll fit and not screw anything else up.

Occassionaly I will look into a planets infrastucture only to find on this mineral poor/low fertility world, there are a ton of mining DEAs producing like +1 minerals. I assume I should go and remove all these and put in research or manufacturing DEAs.

You could. I do. At least late game on populated planets when I have a mineral surplus I do. But better would be to have better Dev Plans that prevent that from happening in the first place, though shortages are hard to control.

Zhaneel

[Beamup]

Originally posted by Zhaneel
Industry DEAs don't make a lot of money on their own.

Oh yes they do! See the end of the Econ 101 thread - an Industry DEA actually produces more money than any other DEA except a Mining or Bio DEA that is in an essentially perfect region for it.

[Rellin]

Thanks again, and Ill try to keep number of questions down to a minimum. One questions just leads to another normally. Starting over *again* with it on medium.

And now one question. How do I take ground forces that are in reserve and station them on a planet to defend against an incoming invasion force with transports in it?

[Da_Blade]

If you open the military tab in the planet screen (not the planets screen) and then select the "ground force" tab, you will see a button that will allow you to create a ground force.

[Rellin]

Thats a ground force to use to invade a planet I thought. If the AI lands group troops on one of my planets, how does the game determine the amount of troops I have as defense? Everything in my reserves?

[Da_Blade]

No, you get militia and the troops deployed as i said above.


To get troops onto transports, select the "create ground froce" button when selecting the system (with empire seat of government or mobilization centre) from the galaxy map.

That is different from what i said above.

[Rellin]

Ah, my reading comprehension isn't best when staying up all night playing this game, lol. Thanks again.

Does Armor Piercing Mod not work on all weapons types or only on missles?

When people talk about having PD ships, which seems important, I don't know if they have an entire TF with all PD mounted weapons of some sort, or is it a PD mission task force with light mounted weapons? Can you just make your escort type ships have some pd mounted missles or weapons and have them perform that role without making PD TFs? I have read a bunch of threads on PD stuff, but am still confused as to thier optimal use and design and where to put them into TF/Fleets.

[Da_Blade]

What i do is design dedicated point defense ships to be used as escorts, the only place a Point Defense mission ship can be placed. I do not use the Point Defense mounts though, as they are quite broken.

I use approximately

40% normal mount most advanced, long range beam weapon i have.
60% light mount most damaging weapon i have.

The reason behind this is to have some big damage dealers to heavy missiles and fighters, as they can carry quite a number of hitpoints. Also, i have some extra defense for ships coming in close range. And with a bit of luck, the range of the normal mounts allow it to fire twice at incoming missiles/fighters before they deal their damage.

I like this setup very much, since it has both a high rof from the light mounts to destroy a lot of missiles/fighters, but can simultaneously also destroy the heavy missiles and fighters.

[Craig P.]

Originally posted by Rellin
I am still seeing the the trickle of small invasion fleets from the AI military into my worlds. They send like 3-5 ships into my newly conquered systems where I have two armadas or whatever and I obliterate them. Is there a mod that makes the military more agressive/large for the AI then Colin's that anyone knows of? I don't want a mod pack that changes a million things, just the military AI for now really.There are several bugs in the game that wind up hamstringing the AI. Look for it to get better when the code patch is released (the data patch and mods have taken it about as far as it can go for now).

I got some hardcore unrest when my expansionism bloomed. When you all play, how many orbitals/system ships do you make per system?I let Roy handle it, but I'm not what you'd call an uber player.

I don't make system ships cause they seem kinda pointless when you can make ships that can actually go anywhere for a bit more, I make like one or two orbitals and then the three bases (beam, missle, and space fighter) is this alright? Do I need more? Seems my one oribital (frigate size so all planets can make first thing) with lasers and fighters can destroy 4 or 5 enemy ships easy.System ships always have value against piracy. They have some utility for defense, as well -- try walking into an AI system with roughly equal numbers and anything less than a well-balanced, top-of-the-line force and you'll get whacked. However, if you're expanding, your frontier planets won't be developed enough to build up a worthy defense in system ships, and later it'll be behind the front lines and not necessarily worth the expenditure.

[triller]

I'm in the first few moves of a new game and can't adjust the Tech Sliders (they're not locked). I'm trying to drive my tech to the next fastest Drive technology. Is there a setting I'm overlooking? Any clues appreciated.

[elarian beach2]

OK, this isn't really a newbie question as such, but it fits the question peramiters you gave:

If I have multiple races in my empire, and am letting the game control migration, do races like to do jobs they are best at? ie: I have one uber-mining race, one uber-science race, and one uber-industry race with similar environment bands, if I create a research dedicated planet, a mining planet, and an industry planet, will the folks who are good at research migrate to the research planet, etc? Or will I have my industry race researching, my mining race building, and my reseach race mining, just because the habitibilty is slightly better?
I am hoping that folks "like" to do what they are best at, and will migrate to regions/planets where they can do the work they like. But that might be beyond the scope of the programming.

Elarian Beach, is it a place, or an attitude?

[zanzibar]

Originally posted by fdlu
How can I make the VR to build manually placed DEAs ?

Have you tried changing the Normal Economic Development slider on the planet in question?? Yes, sometimes the AI gives priority to government and military DEA's, this is why I only use 1 gov't./system (since a system seat of gov't effects the entire system, and you don't get any local gov't upgrades 'til too late in the game...). Generally, the more money you pump into economic development, the faster your government (and other) DEA's will get built.

[zanzibar]

Originally posted by triller
I'm a forum noob; tanx to all participants for the plethora of knowledge and insight.

Can you (and if so how do you) launch fighters at a target when controlling combat (CV TF)?

Try making the task force patrol. That usually gets fighters launched for me!! :)

[Zhaneel]

I'm in the first few moves of a new game and can't adjust the Tech Sliders (they're not locked). I'm trying to drive my tech to the next fastest Drive technology. Is there a setting I'm overlooking? Any clues appreciated.

You can't move the tech sliders on Turn 1. But you should be able to on Turn 2. Other than that, I don't know.

Or will I have my industry race researching, my mining race building, and my reseach race mining, just because the habitibilty is slightly better?

I guessing its all habitibility, sorry.

What you could do is to figure out which race is your high research ones. Then look at your settled planets with the habilitablity set to that racial type and then zone those to be research planets.

Zhaneel

[Jazzlvr]

I've seen discussions on the boards about more than one government DEA per planet or system and more than one military DEA per planet, but I've not seen any particularly consistent view. Since this thread's got such high visibility and lots of folks reading it who want to help, would someone please give a rundown of the current understanding of these two issues?

[DavidByron]

This thread (http://www.ina-community.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=293170) covers government DEAs very well. When you have more than one Gov, Recreation or Military DEA on a planet they have diminishing returns. For example with two DEAs the same, they both operate at a 25% penalty. So don't build a second Gov DEA on a planet where you have a system or imperial seat. The system / imperial seats more or less double the Gov DEAs ability, so losing 25% from that isn't worth it.

If you have a big mining world two Gov DEAs are probably worth it -- because for some odd reason mining DEAs get double the bonus from Gov DEAs infrastructure.

No one has a good handle on what Military DEAs really do (beyond lower unrest). For unrest you are better off with one of each (Military, Gov, Recreation) if you really need all that unrest lowered.

[RiodeJaneiroRob]

How can I set up chokepoints? I control a system that blocks all of the starlanes into most of my empire and the other empires can send ships through, ignoring my warships and I never even get a combat option. I usually get trade agreements and sometimes NA treaties. Which diplomatic agreements should I avoid to not give them access (or at least give me the option to attack them as they go by), or it some other option I have not set correctly.

[Ron_Lugge]

Originally posted by RiodeJaneiroRob
How can I set up chokepoints? I control a system that blocks all of the starlanes into most of my empire and the other empires can send ships through, ignoring my warships and I never even get a combat option. I usually get trade agreements and sometimes NA treaties. Which diplomatic agreements should I avoid to not give them access (or at least give me the option to attack them as they go by), or it some other option I have not set correctly.

Non-agression treaties allow full access.

[Rellin]

I've read a few people saying you don't colonize old Harvester worlds, that they just destroy them or bombarb them to nothing. Why is this? If the Harvester Population is zero, then is it ok to settle there? As Tachidi, they have worlds I wouldn't mind living on.

Just got back from the Matrix Reloaded. The one fight seen where he fights all the Agent Smiths, would alone, make the movie worth seeing, though there is plenty of awesome stuff besides!

[Craig P.]

Originally posted by RiodeJaneiroRob
How can I set up chokepoints? I control a system that blocks all of the starlanes into most of my empire and the other empires can send ships through, ignoring my warships and I never even get a combat option. I usually get trade agreements and sometimes NA treaties. Which diplomatic agreements should I avoid to not give them access (or at least give me the option to attack them as they go by), or it some other option I have not set correctly. If you have an NAP, they will be able to pass freely. If you're concerned about them colonizing planets you want, make sure there's at least one ship in every system where you're worried -- presence of another ship will block colonization under an NAP (only works for an alliance).

[Zhaneel]

Well, I bombard them and then settle them (Harvester Worlds). Most people do. They just forget to say that after they bombard that they settle.

RE: Reloaded, Off topic, don't post about it here, please.

Zhaneel

[DavidByron]

Zhaneel, you need to update your section on Antaran expeditions in your FAQ. It seems to be one of the most FAQ there is. Especially "How do I make an expedition?" and "How come after I made an expedition nothing happened?" (answer = because it takes ages to transition from "Outbound").

Also there are a couple of things that are now inaccurate in your comments about Antaran expeditions (it's in the victory section).

There are three stages to an expedition:

There are four. Outbound, Destination, Archaeology, Inbound. See here. (http://www.ina-community.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=292366)

During Outbound and Inbound stages your task forces loses ships

During Destination, archaelogy and Inbound, but NOT Outbound. This is actually why people get confused -- during Outbound nothing happens - not even losing a ship, so it feels like the expedition never got sent.

While at destination, it has a chance to make a partial discovery until there are 6(?) discoveries

It is during Archeology, and the number is 5.

the ships should all have research labs and be fitted with the best engines

You can be successful with anything at all but it will take longer if your engines are not too good. Also mention the number one secret of sucess -- size (of TF) matters. Also mention that you can get an "X" from defeating a Guardian and that sometimes you cannot get the last "X" from expeditions. And here's a thread on defeating Guardians (http://www.ina-community.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=294438)

Well... you know all that... the section just needs updating.

[Zhaneel]

I have been (slowly) working on redoing the darn thing completely. But thank you for your comments and keep 'em coming.

Zhaneel

[zanzibar]

Originally posted by DavidByron
[BNo one has a good handle on what Military DEAs really do (beyond lower unrest). For unrest you are better off with one of each (Military, Gov, Recreation) if you really need all that unrest lowered. [/B]

Not only do military DEA's lower unrest, but they provide stacking bonuses for your fleets in combat. Also, with a few upgrades, they allow for faster beam base fire-rates, etc...

[zanzibar]

Originally posted by Ron_Lugge
Non-agression treaties allow full access.

Wrong... on the victory screen, you can change your stance towards the other opponent in question. For example: You have a full alliance with Nommo Empire X. However, to stop them from colonizing all your planets, you change your stance to "defensive front". This will lower your relations with the empire, and possibly lead to eventual war, but you can stop thier ships!!

[zanzibar]

Originally posted by Rellin
I've read a few people saying you don't colonize old Harvester worlds, that they just destroy them or bombarb them to nothing. Why is this? If the Harvester Population is zero, then is it ok to settle there? As Tachidi, they have worlds I wouldn't mind living on.

As a cynoid, I've actually landed ground combatants on Ithkul worlds, and integrated them into my empire. I find harvesters make great slave labor, and are pretty good at building ships!! :)

[Zhaneel]

And eating the rest of your empire... but who's counting.

Zhaneel

[Ron_Lugge]

Originally posted by zanzibar
Wrong... on the victory screen, you can change your stance towards the other opponent in question. For example: You have a full alliance with Nommo Empire X. However, to stop them from colonizing all your planets, you change your stance to "defensive front". This will lower your relations with the empire, and possibly lead to eventual war, but you can stop thier ships!!

I never knew about that.

[Whitecat]

OK...

My question is this, and I ask it because I haven't seen it asked anyplace else, (remembering of course it's difficult to read a bajillion posts - give or take a jillion).

Whilst watching a space combat, there are these numbers floating around. I assume that they are pretty much "damage done to ships". But some are yellow, some are blue, and some are red. What's the difference in the colors mean?

Secondly, while looking at a system view, (where the sun is in the upper left corner and all the planets string down to the bottom right) some of the planets have a little green box with this kind of asterisk shaped thing inside of it. What is that box, and is it important to me?

Thanks folks....

Best Regards,
T.E. Whitecat

[Beamup]

Originally posted by Whitecat
Whilst watching a space combat, there are these numbers floating around. I assume that they are pretty much "damage done to ships". But some are yellow, some are blue, and some are red. What's the difference in the colors mean?

Secondly, while looking at a system view, (where the sun is in the upper left corner and all the planets string down to the bottom right) some of the planets have a little green box with this kind of asterisk shaped thing inside of it. What is that box, and is it important to me?

Blue = damage to shields
Yellow = damage to armor
Red = damage to internals

Green box = that planet has a special on it. Click on the planet and look at the survey box to see what it is.

[Whitecat]

thanks OM.......... or rather Beamup. OM = Old man. A term of respect amongst olde tyme ham radio operators. Sorta thought that's what it all meant.

73 and amen

Regards,
T.E. Whitecat

[Dagda]

Originally posted by RiodeJaneiroRob
How can I set up chokepoints? I control a system that blocks all of the starlanes into most of my empire and the other empires can send ships through, ignoring my warships and I never even get a combat option. I usually get trade agreements and sometimes NA treaties. Which diplomatic agreements should I avoid to not give them access (or at least give me the option to attack them as they go by), or it some other option I have not set correctly.

You need to avoid anything more than a standard trade agreement (no open border agreements) or above a non-agression pact. Once you're an ally or have an open border, your ships ignore each other.

Note that it's not necessarily a bad thing to have those agreements, though. If nothing else, it puts yummy new subjects with a possible difference in habitable planets right where you can reach 'em quick. :)

[shantar]

I have some questions:

1, Each planet has income and expenses (military, terraforming etc), well, what happens if the planet has more expenses than income, IE: income 1800, expense 2000, the expense is modified to equal income? the difference is taken from the imperial treasure? And if i have more income than expenses where are going the AUs?

2, From where comes the income of the imperial treasure, i mean, i supose that it come from the planets, but how is calculated?

3, Why some technoligies (when they are researched) take more turns to be completed than others? let's say, Rail Gun 5 turns Electro Bunnies 10 turns, what controls that? are random numbers? are always the same turns? can i make something to speed it?

Thanks! and i'm sorry for the bad english but i have some difficulties to express in this language, i hope you understand me.

[Beamup]

1. The extra 200 AU will be taken from the planet's bank. If there is not enough money, expenses will be reduced, either by lowering slider settings or by scrapping improvements to reduce maintenance.

2. Each planet contributes (planetary GDP + trade)*(empire tax rate) to the imperial treasury. It's just like the planet tax, except it goes to a different place and there's one setting for the entire empire.

3. Don't know. But the displayed numbers have absolutely no resemblance to the actual time it takes, so don't worry about it. Generally things will be completed with 7-8 turns still displayed or sit at 1 turn left for 5-6 turns.

[Craig P.]

Originally posted by Beamup
Blue = damage to shields
Yellow = damage to armor
Red = damage to internals
Addendum - If you get blue numbers, the shields reduced the amount of damage that got through to the point where it was below the deflection value of the target's armor.

If you get yellow numbers, the damage was done entirely to armor, with no damage to internals. This damage may or may not have had to pass through shields - the only way to tell is by the combat graphics.

If you get red numbers, there may or may not have been some damage absorbed by the remaining armor. There's no way to tell.

[Jazzlvr]

Originally posted by zanzibar
Not only do military DEA's lower unrest, but they provide stacking bonuses for your fleets in combat. Also, with a few upgrades, they allow for faster beam base fire-rates, etc...

What does a stacking bonus mean? Is there something documented somewhere?

[DoubleSkulls]

Originally posted by Jazzlvr
What does a stacking bonus mean? Is there something documented somewhere?

IIRC It does nothing. The feature was scrapped but the references remain in the documentation.

[zanzibar]

Originally posted by Zhaneel
And eating the rest of your empire... but who's counting.

Zhaneel

Actually, since eating is broken, it's irrelevant...

[zanzibar]

Originally posted by Dagda
You need to avoid anything more than a standard trade agreement (no open border agreements) or above a non-agression pact. Once you're an ally or have an open border, your ships ignore each other.

Note that it's not necessarily a bad thing to have those agreements, though. If nothing else, it puts yummy new subjects with a possible difference in habitable planets right where you can reach 'em quick. :)

As pointed out earlier, you can change this default action on the victory screen... change your stance towards the other empire...

[zanzibar]

Originally posted by DoubleSkulls
IIRC It does nothing. The feature was scrapped but the references remain in the documentation.

Oh... well, anyhow, a military DEA gives some defensive bonuses to your planetary bases, once the right improvements are researched.

[Zhaneel]

I disagree that eating is "broken." The migratory affects of eating are not working, but they will eat anything on the planet they are on. Which sucks. And they do migrate to an extent, where they eat more. So it is not irrelevant and will be less so after the patch.

Zhaneel

[maverik5]

1. Are there hardwired racial bonuses for space combat?
2. Does the computer always use stock races?
3. Do some species prefer certain governments more? (aside from the customization point penalties)
4. Are two political spies more effective than one political spy?
5. Is it 5 or 10 spies on internal security that gives a free +1 bonus to oppressometer?
6. Do fast ships have better defenses than slow ships if they are all in the same task force?

[Dagda]

Originally posted by maverik5
1. Are there hardwired racial bonuses for space combat?

I believe so. See this thread for the hardwired picks: http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=266847

2. Does the computer always use stock races?

I've never seen them customize. You can open a SP game as MP and find out, though.

3. Do some species prefer certain governments more? (aside from the customization point penalties)

Just the different "types" of government. There's no "Humans gain unrest for being Parliamentary instead of Rebuplic."

4. Are two political spies more effective than one political spy?

Only in the same way that having two cars improves the odds that you can drive somewhere. They don't add anything that I can see, but each gets an independent chance to do damage.

5. Is it 5 or 10 spies on internal security that gives a free +1 bonus to oppressometer?

I believe it's actually 4 spies, but I'd really have to dig for the QS post on the subject. I believe it's in the "Economics 101 thread" stickied in this forum, but it's well buried.

6. Do fast ships have better defenses than slow ships if they are all in the same task force?

Good question. I haven't noticed a difference. Check out Visage's "Space Combat Mechanics Guide" and you might find the answer there. http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=290129

[maverik5]

Dagda, thanks! I had a strange thing happen to me where my Psilons nearly rioted empire-wide when my government was Hive, but switching to Unification calmed them down quite a bit. More questions:

7. Earlier in this thread DavidByron put a link for an explanation to Government DEAs. Does anyone else know if there's similar info floating around on Military DEAs?

8. How exactly does the outreach effect work? Are adjacent systems affected by Government/Military/Recreation DEAs?

[DavidByron]

Yeah. Good questions. Not really newbie questions at all. Guesses follow.

Are there hardwired racial bonuses for space combat?

The "Accuracy" racial pic (10pts a level) effects space combat (not just ground combat) according to the data tables. Each level increases the range of your weapons 10% and the damage at the maximum range by 10%.

Does the computer always use stock races?

I don't think it does, but I haven't studied it. I have seen AI homeworlds with other than average minerals. When you get a splinter colony it is populated (at first) with a different race than your own... or would "ethnic group" be a better word. Anyway they have different racial pics... until your colonists migrate to that splinter world.

Do some species prefer certain governments more? (aside from the customization point penalties)

There is a racial preference for which government you start as. For example insectoids almost always take Hive over Unification. As noted the government modifiers are the same for all races --- and due to a bug all races in your empire use your starter race's government modifiers anyway. There's no known production or unrest difference -- those two areas being quite well understood now.

Are two political spies more effective than one political spy?

The odd thing about MOO3 is that there's a ton of calculations you never really see the effects of.... spying has a lot of data tables associated with it. Some of them talk about rings of spies and bonuses from leaders and so on. There are tables of skills and "circles" (specialities) and such. Perhaps these tables are not used. Unknown.

Is it 5 or 10 spies on internal security that gives a free +1 bonus to oppressometer?

Hard to verify but there is a data table which suggests the answer is 5. You could try editing it and see what happens. It's a value called "ReserveSpiesPerOppressPt" and it is set to 5. In SpyBuilding.txt

Do fast ships have better defenses than slow ships if they are all in the same task force?

Well outside my field of expertise :D

[Ron_Lugge]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by maverik5
[B]Dagda, thanks! I had a strange thing happen to me where my Psilons nearly rioted empire-wide when my government was Hive, but switching to Unification calmed them down quite a bit. More questions:[QUOTE]

Sounds like you had a LOT of recreation DEAs that calmed things down - rec works well in uni, but not hive.

[DavidByron]

Does anyone else know if there's similar info floating around on Military DEAs?

I don't know of any work on Military DEAs. The data tables show them to have identical penalties for diminishing returns. The real mystery is exactly what they do in the first place beyond unrest and detecting ships.

How exactly does the outreach effect work? Are adjacent systems affected by Government/Military/Recreation DEAs?

As in the post referred to, the imperial seat is known to give an infrastructure bonus to planets in the same system. The tables suggest that military and recreation DEAs are more likely to have outreach effects and that this is based on the capacity of the DEA in terms of the number of tech add-ons they have. For example this table:

MilDEA
ExtraRgn DraftPool UnrestRed Outreach

1 1 0.25 9 Region
2 2 0.25 8 Planet
3 3 0.25 7 Orbit
4 4 0.25 6 System
5 5 0.25 5 AdjSystem

[DavidByron]

Sounds like you had a LOT of recreation DEAs that calmed things down - rec works well in uni, but not hive.

It was almost certainly the 10% higher tax tolerance of Unification compared to Hive. Switching to Hive from Unification is like increasing your empire tax rate by 10% --- and then you have the penalty for the government change on top of that. You'd probably get around a 130 unrest increase on every planet, which would put most of them into Unrest or Revolt on turn 1 and the rest would go on turn 2 because of the knock on effect of having so many other planets in revolt.

There's a thread on unrest here. (http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=290680&perpage=30&pagenumber=2)

[Dagda]

Originally posted by maverik5
Dagda, thanks! I had a strange thing happen to me where my Psilons nearly rioted empire-wide when my government was Hive, but switching to Unification calmed them down quite a bit. More questions:

Ahhhhhhh, grasshopper. :)

Ron_Lugge already said it, but I'll reinforce it. The unrest reducing DEAs have different levels of reduction based on race and government type. Acceptable tax levels also change.

So before you contemplate switching governments, take a hard look at your current taxes (and adjust if needed prior to the switch) and your rec/mil deployments. You might just need to alter your DPs and be ready to rip out some mil for rec or vice versa (don't rip out Gov't - it's got other handy bonuses).

For the low-down on Unrest, visit: http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=290680

7. Earlier in this thread DavidByron put a link for an explanation to Government DEAs. Does anyone else know if there's similar info floating around on Military DEAs?

Not that I've seen in that detail. They don't provide the same infrastructure/corruption reducing bonuses as gov't. They're Unrest Reduction and places for nifty improvements for scanning & ground combat, though. They also affect your draft pool (increasing the size).

8. How exactly does the outreach effect work? Are adjacent systems affected by Government/Military/Recreation DEAs?

Rec & Mil do have outreach in them, though I drop a gov't and a rec or mil on every size 6 or larger planet I have anyway. DEATables.txt has entries for outreach, but there's a note for the Mil DEA that outreach is hardcoded and not table driven. I don't know if that note also applies to Rec DEAs. You'll need the DEA + Improvements for outreach to happen, though. Only maxed out DEAs have a noticeable effect on adjacent systems, and may be the only ones that actually do affect adjacent systems. The table at least gives you a hint as to how it's supposed to work, though you can see some of the techs modify this as well. Rec is definitely more effective for outreach, in my experience.

[DavidByron]

Man this is for "newbies"? :bulb:

They also affect your draft pool (increasing the size).

I have tried to find out what the heck that actually is with no success. It reads like there should be a draft cost for the production of ships (low) and ground troops (high) and I think some buildings.... and that Gov DEAs and Military DEAs and your war-footing economy and a couple of other things effect it. However I could not see any change when I hicked the draft cost of Infantry from 1.1 to 110, Still built 10 of them in one turn....

There was a post by someone a while back where they claimed that by changing their economic war-footing they managed to get their production queue to say their ships would be built faster. Since the money doesn't changed I guessed this was something to do with draft pool levels but have been unable to reproduce. It's like a ghost sighting.......

[Dagda]

Originally posted by DavidByron
Man this is for "newbies"? :bulb:

If it's Turn-based, I expect some pretty talented newbs. :)

I have tried to find out what the heck that actually is with no success. It reads like there should be a draft cost for the production of ships (low) and ground troops (high) and I think some buildings.... and that Gov DEAs and Military DEAs and your war-footing economy and a couple of other things effect it. However I could not see any change when I hicked the draft cost of Infantry from 1.1 to 110, Still built 10 of them in one turn....

I don't know where I got the idea, but I thought it was related to HFoG increases. If you're drafting more than your pool, I had figured that you'd be forcing more people that didn't want to go into the military with a corresponding increase in beauraucratic supporting garbage to make it happen. No scientific test of that, though, nor can I recall a developer saying it.

[Jazzlvr]

Has QS said anything about how extensive their promised new docs are going to be? I'm seeing, from the answers in this one thread only, that we're going to need the level of detail in the strat guide for MOO 1...namely, absolutely everything, in a huge PDF.

edit: removed a draft pool question...hadn't finished the thread before I wrote it.

[Craig P.]

Originally posted by maverik5
1. Are there hardwired racial bonuses for space combat?
The Accuracy racial bonus claims to also modify space combat, but visage reports in another thread that he has not observed this effect. So as I understand things right now, there are not any racial modifiers in space combat.

And since AFAIK Accuracy is an available pick, it's not hard-wired. I'm not aware of any hard-wired differences that even purport to affect space combat.

[zanzibar]

Originally posted by Dagda
Not that I've seen in that detail. They don't provide the same infrastructure/corruption reducing bonuses as gov't. They're Unrest Reduction and places for nifty improvements for scanning & ground combat, though. They also affect your draft pool (increasing the size).

The Military DEA's also have some nice add-ons later in the game for faster beam base firing. Also, I figured out how the stacking bonus works (it was sort of implemented...). Ok, without a military DEA on a planet, if you build orbitalx5 you only get 3 orbitals around that planet... however, with a military DEA, you get all 5 around that planet... I guess it allows you to have more orbitals, if built in multiples...

[Dagda]

Originally posted by zanzibar
Ok, without a military DEA on a planet, if you build orbitalx5 you only get 3 orbitals around that planet... however, with a military DEA, you get all 5 around that planet... I guess it allows you to have more orbitals, if built in multiples...

I hate to break it to you, but the MIL doesn't improve the number of orbitals around a planet. You get 3 per planet and moon around that planet. What probably happened was that you compared a planet with no moons to one with moons. But that limit is hard and fast for orbitals, regardless of the presence of a Mil DEA. But the moons have a huge impact, particularly with multiple moons in orbit (planet +4 moons = 15 orbitals = enormous pain for inbound TFs).

[maverik5]

Folks, thanks for the answers. I'll just keep shootin' back questions. ;)

9. I understand how Empire and Planetary Tax work, but what does System Tax actually do? Does this fund buildings like SSoG that affect only the entire system?

10. Do you know a thread where the tax tolerances of different governments are outlined?

11. When I jack up my military/political policy to "Total War", I'm required to spend 25-50% on military stuff. Is that 25-50% of Empire grants in the Finance tab, or is that 25-50% of the individual planetary PP's?

[Da_Blade]

Originally posted by maverik5
Folks, thanks for the answers. I'll just keep shootin' back questions. ;)

9. I understand how Empire and Planetary Tax work, but what does System Tax actually do? Does this fund buildings like SSoG that affect only the entire system?


The planet with the SSoG receives the system tax. This can fuel big industry planets a big more.


10. Do you know a thread where the tax tolerances of different governments are outlined?

Collectivist (http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=272993), Representative (http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=272420) and Absolutist (http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=272293) explanations are here in this forum, stickied as well! ;)


11. When I jack up my military/political policy to "Total War", I'm required to spend 25-50% on military stuff. Is that 25-50% of Empire grants in the Finance tab, or is that 25-50% of the individual planetary PP's?

That's 25-50% of the money left of all income (tax, grants, etc.) after all expenses (Maintenance, Pollution).

[Ron_Lugge]

Just to touch on some things I've seen in thread (without quotes; I'm to tired to go back and find them):

Military level and Taxes: When you change the military spending level, your economy doens't get anything more per AU; its just required to spend more on the AU. Thus, you will increase military production, but NOT because the production becomes 'cheaper' - the AI just raises its funding levels.

System Taxes: I don't know, but I believe that SSoG simply funnels all the system taxes to the planet holding it.

Draft Pool: Never heard of it. Closest I can come to is the fact that some people think that ground troops are produced in a ration of races - ie, your empire has 10% Ithkul, then 10% of your troops are Ithkul. Its actually dominant population - whichever race is predominant on a planet, is the race it will use for troops, colony ships, and outpost ships.

[DavidByron]

Do you know a thread where the tax tolerances of different governments are outlined?

I originally posted them in the unrest thread. Subsequently in a post towards the end of the stickied threads on government types (as Dagda posted). thenumbers are in a data file. Bascially the average tax tolerance is 35%.

Republican, Hive 30%
Const. Monarchy & Unification 40%
Monarchy 37%

[DavidByron]

The corrolary there is do NOT switch governments to Republicanism or Hive (eg for HFoG purposes) without lowering empire/system tax first.

[alterblue]

ok, new to the game and all ... so two quickies:

1. can I colonize a planet in a system which is under the control of another race with whom I have a non-aggression pact? I've got all these colony ships in orbit around some ripe green planets and they do absolutely nothing. I've tried all the possible combos of AI and manual colonization and nothing seems to work ... ug

2. so I sent this nice sized fleet into this system and kicked this guy's butt .. he's only got one planet there and I don't much care for it but he continues to produce a piddly little cutter or something every few turns which just ends up getting blown away by my attendant fleet. I want to take over the planet so this stops happening. SO - do I have to land ground troops there before I control the planet? he doesn't have any ground forces there but he does have a beam & missle base. do I need to have a troop transport with my warships in order to go into the ground combat phase after space combat? I guess the real question is: just how do I take over control of a planet and hence a system?

[Dagda]

Originally posted by alterblue
1. can I colonize a planet in a system which is under the control of another race with whom I have a non-aggression pact? I've got all these colony ships in orbit around some ripe green planets and they do absolutely nothing. I've tried all the possible combos of AI and manual colonization and nothing seems to work ... ug

Known bug. You can't colonize nothin' as soon as there's a single ship from another player in a system. I believe this is fixed in the code patch, but even a full ally would prevent you from landing.

2. so I sent this nice sized fleet into this system and kicked this guy's butt .. he's only got one planet there and I don't much care for it but he continues to produce a piddly little cutter or something every few turns which just ends up getting blown away by my attendant fleet. I want to take over the planet so this stops happening. SO - do I have to land ground troops there before I control the planet? he doesn't have any ground forces there but he does have a beam & missle base. do I need to have a troop transport with my warships in order to go into the ground combat phase after space combat? I guess the real question is: just how do I take over control of a planet and hence a system?

You'll either need to take it with ground forces or glass it from space to keep him from popping ships up there. Note that it's a really, really good idea to take planets (non-Ithkul - they're annoying to have in your empire) since you'll get an immediate boost from the stolen pop & production, plus gain hab rings you can colonize/migrate to.

To bombard or invade, though, you will need to control the combat until the code patch is released.

[Lobachevsky]

Known bug. You can't colonize nothin' as soon as there's a single ship from another player in a system. I believe this is fixed in the code patch, but even a full ally would prevent you from landing.

Really? I managed to colonise a world in an ally's home system (had ISG). The planet with ISG usually starts with system ships. Or did you mean starships? :weird:

[Ron_Lugge]

Originally posted by Dagda
Known bug. You can't colonize nothin' as soon as there's a single ship from another player in a system. I believe this is fixed in the code patch, but even a full ally would prevent you from landing.

Untrue.

You can't colonize when there is someone at NAP or below; allies are allowed.

edit:

Note that I have colonized an ally's system's planet when at a full alliance.

[Da_Blade]

Originally posted by Ron_Lugge
Untrue.

You can't colonize when there is someone at NAP or below; allies are allowed.



Untrue :D

Here's the different rules of engagement per treaty:

First of all, Trade/Research/Open border treaties have no effect on their ships attacking or interfering with what they are doing. Then there are the military agreements which have the following effects:

No Military Treaties: You will be given the option to attack each other. You cannot colonize planets, nor can you do ground assaults while there are other fleets in orbit.

NAP: You will not attack each other, neither will you assist each other in combat. Neither party can colonize while a ship of the other race is in orbit, you can do ground assaults.

Defensive Alliance: You will not attack each other, and will assist each other in combat. Colonization is still not possible with the other party's fleet in system, ground assaults are possible, borbardments are not done seperately, i have been unable to figure out what happens if you both have ground forces too land.

Full Alliance: You will not attack each other, and will assist each other in combat. Colonization is now possible, even with the other party's fleets in orbit.

[Dagda]

Originally posted by Ron_Lugge
Untrue.

You can't colonize when there is someone at NAP or below; allies are allowed.

edit:

Note that I have colonized an ally's system's planet when at a full alliance.

It's not the presence of a "friendly enemy" (if you will) planet that interferes. It's the presence of a ship. And I'm afraid it's a confirmed bug from QS. So you can colonize a planet in a system where your ally already has a colony until and unless they drop a single ship in the system. As soon as that ship's present, you'll never be able to colonize.

It's actually rather humorous to watch your colony ship keep a friend's colony ship from actually colonizing or vice versa ad naseum.

Note that I have been personally bitten by this bug on numerous occasions.

[Ron_Lugge]

Originally posted by Dagda
It's not the presence of a "friendly enemy" (if you will) planet that interferes. It's the presence of a ship. And I'm afraid it's a confirmed bug from QS. So you can colonize a planet in a system where your ally already has a colony until and unless they drop a single ship in the system. As soon as that ship's present, you'll never be able to colonize.

It's actually rather humorous to watch your colony ship keep a friend's colony ship from actually colonizing or vice versa ad naseum.

Note that I have been personally bitten by this bug on numerous occasions.

One thing: The 'enemy' system in question had system ships. and TF or three of starships.

edit:

Of course, this is from the same computer that only rarely experianced the PD bug untill post data patch, so...

[Jazzlvr]

In the sitrep, what does "ready to enter the prototype phase" mean? It doesn't seem to have anything to do with how many turns are left in its development, so I'd like to know why it's important enough to be in the sitrep.

[DavidByron]

It usually means you will get the tech on the next turn. I haven't really been concentrating on that aspect of research, but I beleive it is the part where you either (1) get it next turn or (2) get some comment about riots and increased security making it take X turns longer, or (3) get a comment about a new discovery having added to your knowledge (which means 2-3% extra in that field I think).

The number in the research screen might not be at 1 when this happens but usually the tech will be available on the next turn.

I haven't tried to keep any notes on this so perhaps someone else can confirm / deny my recollection...?

As with a lot of things in MOO3 you don't just "get" tech after you research it ... and then prototype it ...

MOO3 is hard to min/max... and the effects are more marginal, but it is worth it, and to my mind it is part of the depth of "experience" as advertised. (He says after figuring out how to get <1.0 HFoG Bwahahahha!! :haha: )

[Dagda]

Originally posted by DavidByron
(He says after figuring out how to get <1.0 HFoG Bwahahahha!! :haha: )

Landed the HFoG reducing tech(s) right after a government switch or two, did we? :)

I got it below 1 once when I deployed the Antaran HFoG reducing tech, but right now it's just impossible to keep there.

And FWIW, I've had the same experience with "prototyping" messages.

[Zurai]

Re: "Draft pool"

My guess is that the "draft pool" is a bonus to the amount of militia you get to defend your planet in case of an invasion. It's obviously not related to building any standard military units and I would doubt it has anything to do with HFoG. If it works at all, my bet is +militia.

[alterblue]

thanks for the info on the colonization questions I'd asked above .. very helpful .. by the way, this has got to be the most articulate forum of any kind I have ever seen (few ur's or L8r's etc. and virtually no spelling mistakes ...)

ANYWAY,

more questions:

1. what are some good tactics, outside of espionage, for preventing another race from gaining the orion senate victory? especially if they are your allies, from NAP's on up to Full Alliances ...

2. how can one determine if another race is likely to win a coming senate election? I know that on the victory conditions screen it shows what percentage of votes you are likely to garner in the next election (or was it for the last?), but what use is this info if you can't see what percentages the other races are getting (or got)?

now I'll check for spelling mistackes ... :D

[maverik5]

Do terraforming technologies have to be applied in any particular order?

The reason I ask is that I missed sunlight redirection and instead terraformed my worlds with atmospheric containment. Then I traded technology for sunlight redirection later and was still unable to terraform my reds and yellows additionally.

[Ron_Lugge]

Originally posted by maverik5
Do terraforming technologies have to be applied in any particular order?

The reason I ask is that I missed sunlight redirection and instead terraformed my worlds with atmospheric containment. Then I traded technology for sunlight redirection later and was still unable to terraform my reds and yellows additionally.

It shouldn't make any difference; each one should allow you to move the planets enviroment one rating.

[ursketchy]

i apologize if this has been asked before...i used to do a decent job of keeping up with this thread....anyways:

the last two games i've played have been with a super-production cynoid race, still on easy. just to give you an idea of how i've been playing, i normally stop around turn 100 or so (max) and restart remembering whatever i've just learned. things have been going great, i even took over my first HW around turn 60 just yesterday.

here's the deal...i expand like crazy. at one point, i got so annoyed with how many outpost marked planets i had that i built a x10 of outposts in a handful of turns. so, tons of planets....i had only recently stumbled across migration, and it was making my life easier.

but....every now and then i receive a message stating (or something to the effect of) that the population has become too low, and i've lost touch with a certain planet (one time, it was a Sweet Spot planet!!!)....i've noted that i've had some food and/or mineral shortages.

now, a few questions (related, and unrelated)
[related]
1) where does the population for migration come from?
2) is it possible to have "too many" planets with migration?
3) does food(/mineral) shortages affect growth of unestablished colonies? i know for a fact that the aforementioned Sweet Spot planet was decreasing in population despite having migration set.
[unrelated]
4) i've also had a small problem with unrest recently. what can i do other than build a recreation/government DEA?

thanks in advance :up:

[Dagda]

Originally posted by ursketchy
1) where does the population for migration come from?

Your existing colonies with regions that are getting a bit crowded. As a planet gets closer to its maximum population, the inhabitants start longing for less crowding. So they move to a planet, which then gets more crowded and sparks the whole thing all over again. You can just see some poor family that just stops unpacking after they move. :)

2) is it possible to have "too many" planets with migration?

If you mean "Can I set migration on to too many planets," then the answer is probably "no." The population that's motivated to migrate is going to be motivated to migrate regardless. You may as well direct them where you want.

3) does food(/mineral) shortages affect growth of unestablished colonies? i know for a fact that the aforementioned Sweet Spot planet was decreasing in population despite having migration set.

In a word - YES. Food shortages are very bad for new colonies in particular, since they almost certainly don't have any local production. And starvation on that planet reduces its attractiveness for migration ("Hey honey, let's go to OuttaFood IV where we can all starve to death...") so pop can decrease. If your food is running short, then new colonies are a bad idea until you sort it out - they're unlikely to grow much after founding.

[unrelated]
4) i've also had a small problem with unrest recently. what can i do other than build a recreation/government DEA?

Mil DEAs also reduce Unrest, so consider them. The "best" unrest reduction varies based on race/gov't, so you'll need to experiment a bit. You can also increase your general Unrest reduction funding on your Finances tab.

However, you need to figure out why you've got Unrest issues. Is your o-meter too high? Too little in the way of piracy patrols? Taxes set too high? The specific things you do really change based on the unrest source.

[Zhaneel]

You can't really "prevent" a race from winning a senate election, other than by voting for the Orions (if you have more pop, in which you are probably the other guy). The reason why is because the choice is the Orions and someone else. If that someone else has even decent ratings with the other empires, they'll get all the votes and its only a matter of time. You can check your foriegn matrix screen with your ally as the center to see how others view them to get an idea of how the vote will go. You can start a war with there most populus ally/friend to take away votes. You can start a war with your ally to take away votes. I guess spies would work, but I doubt it.

IIRC the election comes up every 20 turns or so after turn 40.

Zhaneel

[DavidByron]

where does the population for migration come from?

You can check out the demographics tab on your homeworld or other big colonies and you will see "emigration" listed. Don't worry -- you won't lose more than you are naturally growing by until your homeworld is filling up. Compare the "emigration" and "growth" numbers. Each region decides whether it will have some guys emigrate. Basically if you have 2 planets with migration set then every planet that doesn't have migration set will think about having people emigrate. Then it's a question of "where?" Distance is a factor but the biggest factor is finding a region where people of that race already are. That's why you rarely get people migrating to a new planet and giving you a free outpost unless they belong to a new race you haven't had in your empire previously (eg a magnate or newly conquered race). the other big factor is avoiding starving, overpopulated and unrest planets. Then it is pretty much random over a selection but planets with migration set get a good bonus.

is it possible to have "too many" planets with migration?

If you leave migration on the planets after the outposts become established colonies then they compete for migrants with your ourtposts (and people prefer the colonies somewhat) so your outposts will become colonies more slowly. So that depends on how much starting population you want on a colony. Don't leave migration on permanently.

i've also had a small problem with unrest recently. what can i do other than build a recreation/government DEA

Cut taxes, check you have enough anti-piracy coverage - new colonies often start off with none.

[Dagda]

Originally posted by Zhaneel
You can't really "prevent" a race from winning a senate election, other than by voting for the Orions (if you have more pop, in which you are probably the other guy). The reason why is because the choice is the Orions and someone else

Note that it's not always the Orions in the Presidential Election. It'll be the two races with the most votes individually in the Senate when election time rolls around. That guarantees the Orions a spot in the election for a long time, but they can "fall out" on their own.

If they do, you can screw up the election frequently by just abstaining. If nobody gets an absolute majority in the election including all abstentions (rather than just looking at the votes cast), then the old president retains the seat.

Personally, I'd turn off the Presidency victory. It's too easy to get, particularly with a magnate race or four as early discoveries.

[Ron_Lugge]

Originally posted by ursketchy
i apologize if this has been asked before...i used to do a decent job of keeping up with this thread....anyways:

Its alright. No need to keep up; the "read the thread" rule WAS suspended for a reason.

[related]
1) where does the population for migration come from?
2) is it possible to have "too many" planets with migration?
3) does food(/mineral) shortages affect growth of unestablished colonies? i know for a fact that the aforementioned Sweet Spot planet was decreasing in population despite having migration set.
[unrelated]
4) i've also had a small problem with unrest recently. what can i do other than build a recreation/government DEA?

thanks in advance :up:

1. Other planets
2. Dunno... possibly, since it drains from established planets
3. *YES* - if you can't feed your people, they starve.
4) Reduce opressometer, reduce taxes, check your leaders, build military DEAs, grab certain X's... Thats all I can think of. Oh, and turn off FLUs I think.

[ursketchy]

i found a great thread (http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=290680) on unrest management that i hadn't seen before (i'm surprised it wasn't stickied). it also went over the Finance Screen, which, i've ashmed to say, i've almost completely ignored. sounds like lowering military/research grants (even if just a little), and raising planetary and unrest spending will help :up:
Originally posted by DavidByron
You can check out the demographics tab on your homeworld or other big colonies and you will see "emigration" listed. Don't worry -- you won't lose more than you are naturally growing by until your homeworld is filling up. Compare the "emigration" and "growth" numbers. Each region decides whether it will have some guys emigrate. Basically if you have 2 planets with migration set then every planet that doesn't have migration set will think about having people emigrate. Then it's a question of "where?" Distance is a factor but the biggest factor is finding a region where people of that race already are. That's why you rarely get people migrating to a new planet and giving you a free outpost unless they belong to a new race you haven't had in your empire previously (eg a magnate or newly conquered race). the other big factor is avoiding starving, overpopulated and unrest planets. Then it is pretty much random over a selection but planets with migration set get a good bonus.
this is pretty much the answer i was looking for -- i always figured that the population came from "other planets," but it was a question of which ones i didn't know.

is there any sort of "tech tree" that's been developed? i realize the tech tree is generated randomly each game, but at this point, i have NO clue as to what could potentially appear, what requirements are needed for each tech, etc. (ideally, a civ2 type tech tree would be absolutely perfect).

...
...
...
i'm sure i have more questions, but i'm drawing a complete and total blank....

[DavidByron]

is there any sort of "tech tree" that's been developed?

Not one that you have to think about if you don't want to. Most techs are redundant and come as part of a set that do the same thing at different levels, or in different fields of research, or there are similar techs that do similar things. There's a lot of redundancy.

For example, say you have a minerals shortage. There are around 20 techs that can help you out. Most have that pink looking mining icon and increase mining directly. Others reduce the amount of minerals you need for industry, or allow you to use food instead of minerals for industry, or you can get tech that increases infrastructure, or government infrastructure and that increases all production including mining.

This is just as well because even with the highest creativity level you will sometimes not get a tech -- you'll NEVER be able to research it. You can try to steal it, or trade for it, and with the coming code patch you can grab it by capturing worlds maybe.

There's no "tree" as such then, although a small number of techs have one prerequisite level of research in another field that you need. Also some techs are just useless without other techs -- like the miniaturisation of weapons that you don't know how to build yet.

[ursketchy]

well, that's sort of why i put "tech tree" in quotes....because it seemed rather difficult to produce such a thing.

i guess what i'm looking for is a comprehensive list explaining every tech, and what level (or approximately what level, if it's never the same) each should appear at. even if, as you said, there are 20 techs that do pretty much the same thing. is there a listing somewhere giving all 20?

here's my problem....for example, i missed anionic missles the other day. i had NO idea it had happened, and NO idea what level it should have been at. so, i tried numerous times to trade tech's for it (i was planning to build a swarm of missle boats, but was still stuck on nuclear), all of which were turned down. and i was completely unsure which was more unreasonable: the AI's trading algorithms or my trade offers.

another example - how many terraforming techs are there? when do i get them?

(ok, it's hard to not interpret the tone of this message as whining, but please believe me, i'm not :D )

incidentally, are you telling me you can learn miniaturization techs without learning the tech itself? that seems a little....wrong, no? :weird:

[Dagda]

Originally posted by ursketchy
here's my problem....for example, i missed anionic missles the other day. i had NO idea it had happened, and NO idea what level it should have been at. so, i tried numerous times to trade tech's for it (i was planning to build a swarm of missle boats, but was still stuck on nuclear), all of which were turned down. and i was completely unsure which was more unreasonable: the AI's trading algorithms or my trade offers.

Grab the mod that adds the school and tech level to the name of technology itself. You'll get a letter and two digit number in front of each tech, and it even covers the cross-school ones. Very handy.

another example - how many terraforming techs are there? when do i get them?

If I remember right, there are four. At the moo3mods.com, I think they had the full tech tree in HTML format.

incidentally, are you telling me you can learn miniaturization techs without learning the tech itself? that seems a little....wrong, no? :weird:

I don't believe you can learn them without learning the requisite tech. The tech tree for the improvements is a "+x" system, so you don't have them enter at TL Y+X until you get the advance at TL Y. You can steal an improvement to a weapon without having the weapon, and perhaps that populates your tech tree with the further improvements you might get. But every report I've seen on the "Researching Improved Disintegrator Beams without Disintegrator Beams" has turned out to have been espionage.

[maverik5]

What benefits does one get for being President of the Orion Senate if the diplomatic victory condition is disabled? Does being president give you a vote multiplier bonus? Can the president be expelled from the senate, and if so, what happens?

[Dagda]

Originally posted by maverik5
What benefits does one get for being President of the Orion Senate if the diplomatic victory condition is disabled? Does being president give you a vote multiplier bonus? Can the president be expelled from the senate, and if so, what happens?

You get a gold star and a pat on the back. No other in-game effects.

[Lobachevsky]

incidentally, are you telling me you can learn miniaturization techs without learning the tech itself? that seems a little....wrong, no?

I don't believe you can learn them without learning the requisite tech

I have on several occasions discovered the miniaturisation techs before I've discovered the weapons tech itself. This did happen through the normal research process not through trade/spying (which I don't do) or the random tech special. This may be something of a bug now that I think about it. :bulb: :confused:

[Ron_Lugge]

Originally posted by Lobachevsky
I have on several occasions discovered the miniaturisation techs before I've discovered the weapons tech itself. This did happen through the normal research process not through trade/spying (which I don't do) or the random tech special. This may be something of a bug now that I think about it. :bulb: :confused:

"before I've discovered"

Does that mean its a case of having the weapon bumped up several leves, and the enhancements bumped down, or soemthing else?

[krsz]

just read this whole thread - lots of useful info.

I could use some clarification though:
I grabbed a lot of worlds with magnate civilizations on them (3 or 4). They're great. I have noticed though, that they sometimes take their own initiative and establish new colonies on their own. I get sitreps informing me of new colonies, when I know no ships have been built/launched. The demographics of the new colony confirm it's a magnate race. What governs this behavior, and is there any way I can encourage it?

On a related note, let's say I want to build some colony ships of a magnate race. How do I identify good planets for them to inhabit, and build ships for them to send over?

thanks for any info for a newbie,
-krsz

[Lobachevsky]

Does that mean its a case of having the weapon bumped up several leves, and the enhancements bumped down, or soemthing else?

The last time I noticed this the miniaturisation was 5-6 TL below the weapons tech. By below I mean the TL of the miniatuisation was less than that of the weapon. However IIRC I have had a situation where I got the miniaturisation and never got the weapon.

[Dagda]

Originally posted by krsz
I grabbed a lot of worlds with magnate civilizations on them (3 or 4). They're great. I have noticed though, that they sometimes take their own initiative and establish new colonies on their own. I get sitreps informing me of new colonies, when I know no ships have been built/launched. The demographics of the new colony confirm it's a magnate race. What governs this behavior, and is there any way I can encourage it?

It's the built-in migration that people do. Crowded regions cause inhabitants of a planet to want to move. Magnates are very crowded at the moment - they're currently all crammed into a single region. After the code patch, they'll be distributed across 1/2 the regions on a planet so the migration won't occur so quickly. Your own people migrate this way as well, but you don't see it as much until your population grows. Can you encourage it? There's a few ways, but they're really exploits of the system and you're better just letting pop growth do it for you.

On a related note, let's say I want to build some colony ships of a magnate race. How do I identify good planets for them to inhabit, and build ships for them to send over?

Huge problem at the moment - you can't see the race on a colony ship. Also fixed in the code patch. The only way to handle this currently is to build mutliple colony designs like "My Colony" and "Darlok Colony" then obsolete and unobsolete them so that you build the rignt one at the right planet.

[Craig P.]

Originally posted by krsz
On a related note, let's say I want to build some colony ships of a magnate race. How do I identify good planets for them to inhabit?Dagda addressed the other one... there's no way to establish good planets for them absolutely until the code patch (when their habitability rings will be available), but until then, you can guesstimate from the world where you get them. Look for a species that shares green ring with the magnate, or look for where it lies on more than one species (e.g. there's somebody who's green ring on both Etherean and Saurian IIRC, probably the Darloks). You can also get an idea based on the look of the planet -- there's usually only one or two planet textures that are green ring for a species.

[Hydroc]

Hey,

I found that one of my planets listed a ship at 2000 or so PP to be build and another planet said that same ship would take about 7000 PP to build.
My question is wether its normal to have differences like this (due to upgrades for aexample) or wether this is a bug (in which case ill post it at the bug forum)

thx,
Hydroc

ps i made screenshots then remembered i actually need serverspace to be able to show them in a forum :| :D

[Dagda]

Originally posted by Hydroc
I found that one of my planets listed a ship at 2000 or so PP to be build and another planet said that same ship would take about 7000 PP to build.
My question is wether its normal to have differences like this (due to upgrades for aexample) or wether this is a bug (in which case ill post it at the bug forum)

I'll bet the cheaper planet had a gov't DEA (reducing corruption) and probably ran at a significantly lower unrest level (which can reduce productiity). That size swing is larger than I'd expect, so there might also be a planetary special that's impacting the efficiency of industry. The PP required can vary, though.

[DavidByron]

My question is wether its normal to have differences like this

I have no idea. Has anyone else seen this effect? If it exists then it is an extremely important part of production which I haven't been aware of previously.

What were you building? What was the cost of the ship as listed on the ship design page?

[Ron_Lugge]

Originally posted by Hydroc
Hey,

I found that one of my planets listed a ship at 2000 or so PP to be build and another planet said that same ship would take about 7000 PP to build.
My question is wether its normal to have differences like this (due to upgrades for aexample) or wether this is a bug (in which case ill post it at the bug forum)

thx,
Hydroc

ps i made screenshots then remembered i actually need serverspace to be able to show them in a forum :| :D Tell me, do you do any manual X10 builds?

For some odd reason, whenever I do X10 of something and then remove that X10 from the build que, that item (that I X10) becomes a LOT more expensive... permanently. As in, FOREVER. :cry: Nasty bug that... Could this be the case? A 5X gone bad?

[Hydroc]

Well, no i didnt use any 5X on those planets caus they arent really big, and as such not worth the microing. I was just taking a look at the planets to see why some higher industry planets werent building some things lower industry planets were.

Well i found the reason. >(

anyway, perhaps i can figure it out if i know more about the building and designing of ships (this is the newb thread after all so why not ask this question ;)

Im a bit confused about this since the designing of a ship is in AU and the building in PP's. Also the amount of PP's are displayed when i try to build one but it doesnt match the AU it said it would cost in the design. How does this exactly work? And then there's the matter of differing costs (as in PP) per planet. (i observed this is the case with other planets as well, allthough most still have the 2000 PP cost, thank god! :D )
but since nobody else has the same problem just leave that out.

thx,
Hydroc

[Dagda]

Originally posted by Hydroc
Im a bit confused about this since the designing of a ship is in AU and the building in PP's. Also the amount of PP's are displayed when i try to build one but it doesnt match the AU it said it would cost in the design. How does this exactly work?

Four letters - HFoG. When you design a ship, you're viewing your "raw" cost to build the ship. But your HFoG is a multiplier for that cost. So if ship X costs 1000 AU on the design screen and you're HFoG is 2.2, it'll cost a minimum of 2200PP to build.

And then there's the matter of differing costs (as in PP) per planet. (i observed this is the case with other planets as well, allthough most still have the 2000 PP cost, thank god! :D )
but since nobody else has the same problem just leave that out.

I've seen it. You reduce/eliminate it by keeping unrest points low, buidlign gov't DEAs to minimize corruption, and avoiding planets with nasty specials.

[DavidByron]

Well what is the HFoG and what is the cost in AUs and when you multiply them together do you get either of the two costs mentioned?

Dagda if your hypothesis was correct I would have predicted most planets with one standard cost would be the high, not the low cost.... if you are right it looks like the exceptional planets are getting more costs not reducing it.

Are there any specials on the planet with the high cost? You said you found another one --- did it have the same high cost or are you saying there are now three?

Is the ratio of AU::PP cost the same for anything you'd want to build?

I'll go and hunt for this behaviour in a game where I have HFoG... (incidentally Dagda, no, I didn't get HFoG < 1 by achieving HFoG reducing techs; they don't seem to do anything, presumably because they are a multiplier of the difference from 1?).

[zanzibar]

Originally posted by DavidByron
Well what is the HFoG and what is the cost in AUs and when you multiply them together do you get either of the two costs mentioned?

You can view your current HfoG by clicking victory. You can view the cost of the ship on the ship design screen. And yes, multiplying them together gives you the ship cost in PP's. For a community veteran, I am surprised you didn't know about HfoG already. :eek: :D :eek:

[DavidByron]

And yes, multiplying them together gives you the ship cost in PP's

That is what Hydroc is contesting by claiming to have seen two different values of PP cost for the same ship and same HFoG.

[Zhaneel]

Maybe I'm not understanding the set up correctly, but here is my break-down.

1) In the design screen, you have a "base cost" of your ship established. This is immutable.
2) In order to figure out how much that would cost you multiply the "base cost" by the Heavy Foot of Government currently applying (1.0 and up, though I've heard of rare 0.95 costs).
3) If the planet has no building or pollution specials, no unrest and no gov't DEAs it will cost the Base Cost * HFoG.
4) If there is unrest (lvl 2 or higher, IIRC) then it will cost more PPs due to "decreased production."
5) The further from the Imperial Seat, the more it will cost due to corruption.
5a) If there is a gov't DEA there, it may cost less than without due to corruption as a factor from the Imperial Seat. System Seat on a gov't DEA will also reduce this corruption value.
6) Pollution will increase the total cost in AUs, but should not increase the PPs needed.
7) All other building impariment specials are regional specific, so would not apply to the MBQ.

Sound about right?

Zhaneel

[Dagda]

Originally posted by DavidByron
Dagda if your hypothesis was correct I would have predicted most planets with one standard cost would be the high, not the low cost.... if you are right it looks like the exceptional planets are getting more costs not reducing it.

But that's what I'd expect - the exceptional planets would be the ones with specials, lack of gov't DEAs, etc. So they'd probably be much rarer than "low cost" planets.

I'll go and hunt for this behaviour in a game where I have HFoG... (incidentally Dagda, no, I didn't get HFoG < 1 by achieving HFoG reducing techs; they don't seem to do anything, presumably because they are a multiplier of the difference from 1?).

Hmmm. I'm not sure that "They don't seem to do anything" is accurate. :)

They might not if your HFoG is 1 and they are reducing the excess above 1. I actually didn't track the real change I saw, so I don't know if .75 of a 2.2 HFoG results in 1.7 or 1.9.

[DavidByron]

Sound about right?

The simple PP cost = AU cost x HFoG is fine, and so are the comments about how PP costs rise with polution or lowered production capacity but the other two are unsubstantiated.

The further from the Imperial Seat, the more it will cost due to corruption

Sounds like Civ. I haven't seen it in MOO3. My imperial seat has the exact same costs as a planet on the opposite side of the sector.

If there is a gov't DEA there, it may cost less than without

Comparing two planets in the same system, one a system seat, the other with no Gov DEA -- I see no difference in production costs.


I did find one inconsistency. Every planet had the wrong cost for one specific type of ship when compared to the listed AU cost and. It was a system colony ship. Odd.

[Decepticons]

Several Questions, tech and economy related.

Background: Playing Evons. Playing with drastically reduced tech advancement (average among myself and 11 computer opponents is 16 at turn 250).

1. My Heavy Foot of Gov't is VERY high compared to my computer opponents. Mine is (and has been) about 3.1-3.2 for awhile now. Most of the computer players have around 2.1 to 2.5. I have most, if not all of the HFOG reducing techs. What causes this number to be high or low? What does it effect?

2. DEA's: As my empire has developed (I have about 25 planets, about 70% green, 20% yellow, 10% red), building of DEA's on new planets has slowed to a crawl. Why? My economy looks to be in pretty good shape (I'm adding a few 100 AU's to reserver on most turns and have about 35,000 AU's banked).

3. Holistic Planning (and similar techs): These techs claim that they give a "+1 Economy Overdriving Industry" bonus. What the heck does that mean?

4. Astro University gives x1.4 (xxx) per population point. Does this mean that (xxx) gains a 40% bonus to productivity?

5. Bioorganic Monitoring Station (and like techs): GIve a +1 bonus to regional ecosystem density. Is this the "leaf" symbol by each reagion on a planet? Does it effect anything other than Bioharvest DEA's? If so, how?

6. Automated Biocare (and like techs): Give a +1 DEA efficiency. What does this mean?

7. Catalyst Design (and like techs): Gives a +1 "rate of conversion" to the effect DEA type. What does this mean?

8. Sanitation Infrastructuree (and like techs): Gives a +0.25 bonus to Infrastructure. What does this mean?

9. Production Points: What do they do and where do they come from. For example, I have two planets, both sweet spot, both normal grav, both with 3 Industry DEAs. One vastly out-produces the other. Why?

10. Magnates + Evons on a planet. I colonized a very rich red 1. One of my magnates decided this sounded like a good idea and moved in too. The magnate is a gas-bag. Will the planet Terraform in their favor, or in the my (Evon) favor?

11. Enemy race now in my empire. I have two Meklar enemies on two fronts. 100 turns or so ago, I noticed a colony pop up on a Yellow 2. I went to see if my Magnate had grabbed it and found Meklar. They are part of my empire, they seem happy. I did not attack and/or invade this planet. Why are they there?

(Sorry for many questions, I hope they are not to advanced for the purpose of this thread. I will have more, so if this is out of the scope of what you had in mind, please let me know).

[Dagda]

Originally posted by DavidByron
Comparing two planets in the same system, one a system seat, the other with no Gov DEA -- I see no difference in production costs.

Gov DEAs do have outreach if the tables are to be believed. And it's quite strong in the same system with just a few tech advances.

[Dagda]

Originally posted by Decepticons
1. My Heavy Foot of Gov't is VERY high compared to my computer opponents. Mine is (and has been) about 3.1-3.2 for awhile now. Most of the computer players have around 2.1 to 2.5. I have most, if not all of the HFOG reducing techs. What causes this number to be high or low? What does it effect?

Most likely, a high oppressometer setting is helping, though there's a constant "creep" upward for HFoG.

2. DEA's: As my empire has developed (I have about 25 planets, about 70% green, 20% yellow, 10% red), building of DEA's on new planets has slowed to a crawl. Why? My economy looks to be in pretty good shape (I'm adding a few 100 AU's to reserver on most turns and have about 35,000 AU's banked).

As your number of improvements grow, the Viceroy has more items in the "build lottery." Improvements that improve capacity/efficiency receive a higher bump than new DEAs, so it suddenly looks like you aren't building when instead you're building improvements (which are invisible until built in the RBQ currently - fixed in the code patch). Just keep an eye on a planet or two to see if you're really having a problem or just having improvements show up.

3. Holistic Planning (and similar techs): These techs claim that they give a "+1 Economy Overdriving Industry" bonus. What the heck does that mean?

The cost of overdriving is reduced compared to not having the tech. So that second bunch of PP you get from your industry might only cost 1.9AU/PP instead of 2. You can drive industry more efficiently as a result.

4. Astro University gives x1.4 (xxx) per population point. Does this mean that (xxx) gains a 40% bonus to productivity?

In the areas specified, yep.

5. Bioorganic Monitoring Station (and like techs): GIve a +1 bonus to regional ecosystem density. Is this the "leaf" symbol by each reagion on a planet? Does it effect anything other than Bioharvest DEA's? If so, how?

Again, yep. And if the change happens to improve the fertility of the region (biodiversity and fertility correlate, but not causally), then it will improve the output of a Bio DEA.

6. Automated Biocare (and like techs): Give a +1 DEA efficiency. What does this mean?

I'd have to check on that advance. It may be overdriving efficiency, but it might also be a boost to base productivity.

7. Catalyst Design (and like techs): Gives a +1 "rate of conversion" to the effect DEA type. What does this mean?

An Industry converts 1 mineral for every X Industry points to function. With techs like this, you'll go to 1:(X+1) or 1:(X+2) so that you use fewer resources to gain the same output.

8. Sanitation Infrastructuree (and like techs): Gives a +0.25 bonus to Infrastructure. What does this mean?

Across the board mulitplier to DEA productivity (you want these - you really, really want these :)).

9. Production Points: What do they do and where do they come from. For example, I have two planets, both sweet spot, both normal grav, both with 3 Industry DEAs. One vastly out-produces the other. Why?

PP = Industry + AU spent. If you're overdriving one planet with 150 industry with 900 AU spent, you get 450 PP. If you're overdriving the other with 450AU, you'll get 300PP. The higher your industry number, the more efficient overdriving is because it takes longer to hit the cost increase break points.

That said, planets can vary in terms of industry due to the improvements built, unrest levels, planetary specials, the race populating the planet/region, etc.

10. Magnates + Evons on a planet. I colonized a very rich red 1. One of my magnates decided this sounded like a good idea and moved in too. The magnate is a gas-bag. Will the planet Terraform in their favor, or in the my (Evon) favor?

Terraforming always occurs in the direction of the dominant species on the planet. That's likely to turn into the gasbags, since they love gas giants and will migrate there like there's no tomorrow. So it might start moving towards your hab ring, then suddenly reverse.

11. Enemy race now in my empire. I have two Meklar enemies on two fronts. 100 turns or so ago, I noticed a colony pop up on a Yellow 2. I went to see if my Magnate had grabbed it and found Meklar. They are part of my empire, they seem happy. I did not attack and/or invade this planet. Why are they there?

Migration happens "in the background" to new planets. If you conquered any Meklar worlds and they're getting full, they'll start looking for new homes.

[Craig P.]

Originally posted by Decepticons
1. My Heavy Foot of Gov't is VERY high compared to my computer opponents. Mine is (and has been) about 3.1-3.2 for awhile now. Most of the computer players have around 2.1 to 2.5. I have most, if not all of the HFOG reducing techs. What causes this number to be high or low? What does it effect?Dagda addressed the cause. The effect is that the HFOG number is a multiplier on the cost of everything. The higher the HFOG, the more expensive everything is. Typically, your industry will outpace the increase in HFOG, but it does make it more of an undertaking to get new colonies bootstrapped.

4. Astro University gives x1.4 (xxx) per population point. Does this mean that (xxx) gains a 40% bonus to productivity?Population produces industry and test tubes, and this number can become substantial (not compared to industry DEAs, but enough to get based DEA and improvement construction moving if you get enough population in place). Astro University may increase these numbers by 40% -- I'd have to check the description to be sure.

5. Bioorganic Monitoring Station (and like techs): GIve a +1 bonus to regional ecosystem density. Is this the "leaf" symbol by each reagion on a planet? Does it effect anything other than Bioharvest DEA's? If so, how?In addition to potentially helping Bioharvest DEAs (the fertility is a function of RED and habilibility ring), I believe this also increases the max pop in a region.

6. Automated Biocare (and like techs): Give a +1 DEA efficiency. What does this mean?See the Econ 101 thread and look for the posts by Tom Hughes. IIRC a bonus to efficiency means a bonus to the base output of the DEA (before all of the modifiers kick in). Considering that many improvements will add multipliers, increasing the efficiency is a big deal.

[DavidByron]

Holistic Planning:
This reduces the cost of your industry production which means you can afford a little more, but not all that much at first. When you can get a few levels you see the difference.

Astro University:
This is great for high population planets which I would guess most of your planets are... industry and research from population can be over half the total for some planets (usually rather less but still significant). I think with your tech slowdown this would be a great tech to get.

Bioorganic Monitoring Station:
More food. Increases pop growth a little, but I guess you wouldn't need that! Probably increases the max pop on a planet too.

Automated Biocare:
The +1 efficiency will increase all your DEAs by a fixed amount (not a %) so you will be able to get more from worse land.

Catalyst Design:
This is your fix if you are running out of minerals. It makes industry use less of it.

Sanitation Infrastructure:
This is by far the best tech of the list you have a choice of going for. Big bonuses to everything but especially to minerals.

I have two planets, both sweet spot, both normal grav, both with 3 Industry DEAs. One vastly out-produces the other. Why?

Vastly? Perhaps you have "rare radioactives" special. It quadruples your industry. Always consider settling any special with "rare" something or other. Half of them are great for industry and they are all great for research -- but only in the region with the special.

If you only mean, say, double, then the explanation might be FLUs, higher population or the presence of a Gov DEA or system seat. They can all give good bonuses in the 5-30% range.

[Ron_Lugge]

9. Production Points: What do they do and where do they come from. For example, I have two planets, both sweet spot, both normal grav, both with 3 Industry DEAs. One vastly out-produces the other. Why?

Amongst other things, habitability and production are by region. You may have those industry DEAs on a high pop on one planet, the other planet has low pop. Also, you may be low on minerals. You could have a rare radioactives special, etc etc etc

[ursketchy]

i've decided to give manually placing DEAs a try, at least for the first handful of colonies, just to see how everything turns out. and yes, i've read Sirian's thread (http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=293463) about micromanagement already - i don't want this to be a micro vs. macro issue, that's not my question(s)...

1) sometimes i can place bioharvest DEAs, and sometimes i can't. originally, i thought it was due to the planet having a Toxic fertility rate - understandable. but i'm almost sure that i've been unable to add bio DEAs to non-toxic regions on non-toxic planets....did i remember this correctly? if so, what conditions need to be met in order to add a bio DEA?

2) the best place for a mine is mountains, correct? are any other DEAs affected by region placement (especially research DEAs)?

3) if you have no research DEAs, is research still produced? how much? (seems like a stupid question, and i realize i can figure this out for myself, but didnt't think of it until now...)

[Da_Blade]

Originally posted by ursketchy
1) sometimes i can place bioharvest DEAs, and sometimes i can't. originally, i thought it was due to the planet having a Toxic fertility rate - understandable. but i'm almost sure that i've been unable to add bio DEAs to non-toxic regions on non-toxic planets....did i remember this correctly? if so, what conditions need to be met in order to add a bio DEA?

You need special techs to place bio DEAs on yellow or below worlds.


2) the best place for a mine is mountains, correct? are any other DEAs affected by region placement (especially research DEAs)?

Bioharvest is best in plains (for non-silicoids). For the cyberneticks it doesn't matter what you place where at all. All other DEAs are unaffected by placement.


3) if you have no research DEAs, is research still produced? how much? (seems like a stupid question, and i realize i can figure this out for myself, but didnt't think of it until now...)
Population produces test tubes by itself too. But trusting on that is about as smart as not building industry DEAs and using the population's natural industry.... So yes, they produce test tubes by themselves, 1 usually, some races (elders, gas bags and psilons) get a bonus on this, but they produce very little, certainly not enough to fuel any type of serious research...

[Zhaneel]

Originally posted by ursketchy
1) sometimes i can place bioharvest DEAs, and sometimes i can't. originally, i thought it was due to the planet having a Toxic fertility rate - understandable. but i'm almost sure that i've been unable to add bio DEAs to non-toxic regions on non-toxic planets....did i remember this correctly? if so, what conditions need to be met in order to add a bio DEA?

It needs to be a Yellow I or better planet for the dominate Race. You can get technologies to improve this.

2) the best place for a mine is mountains, correct? are any other DEAs affected by region placement (especially research DEAs)?

Yes. Mines are best in the mountians and okay in broken. Bios are best in the plains (for most races) and okay in broken. Check on the Economics 101 (http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=273336) thread for more info or my FAQ (found in sigline).

3) if you have no research DEAs, is research still produced? how much? (seems like a stupid question, and i realize i can figure this out for myself, but didnt't think of it until now...)

Yes and no. Population (by itself) will produce Test Tubes. Test Tubes, like Production Points, determine how much Research Points will cost in AUs.

Zhaneel

[DavidByron]

are any other DEAs affected by region placement (especially research DEAs)?

Well if you have a "rare" special then they give bonuses to research DEAs in their region of +100% to +300% or so. Also... it seems to me that the AI often builds infrastructure buildings from the last region up... perhaps someone else could confirm/deny that... but if so you'd be best placing them at the bottom of the list where possible. Finally if the planet has two races try to put it in the region of the race that is better at research or better suited to the local gravity. If it is a mgante world that will often be the region that can make a Bio DEA when the others cannot.

Unfortunately all those regions are also good for other DEAs. If you want more research I would suggest -- and this is coming from a master-micromanager --- you'd be better off simply adding research to your "All planets" development plan and keeping an eye on colonies with "rare" specials.

Also, just to contradict Dagda.... I think population production can be highly significant, especially for research. Say 25% of it. That's especially true if you have maxed research pic -- which if you are keen on research I am guessing you did?

[JosEPh]

Hi! I'm aNewb and my question is: Why do I lose games to senate victory when I didnot check the Senate Victory box at game start up ? I did not check Senate or "X's" and have lost 3 games to senate victory! Is this a BUG? [sorry that's 2 ?'s]

[Ron_Lugge]

Originally posted by JosEPh
Hi! I'm aNewb and my question is: Why do I lose games to senate victory when I didnot check the Senate Victory box at game start up ? I did not check Senate or "X's" and have lost 3 games to senate victory! Is this a BUG? [sorry that's 2 ?'s]

Those boxes start out checked - you would have to UNcheck them.

[JosEPh]

I'm pretty sure on the last one, that I made sure that there were no check marks? I guess I'll have to start a new game and make sure that they are not checked. Do you know if anyone else has had this happen?

[Ron_Lugge]

Originally posted by JosEPh
I'm pretty sure on the last one, that I made sure that there were no check marks? I guess I'll have to start a new game and make sure that they are not checked. Do you know if anyone else has had this happen?

I've never even heard of it... untill now.

Of course, sometimes I might set it up wrong... but usually *I* catch myself shortly into the game.

[Dagda]

Originally posted by DavidByron
Also, just to contradict Dagda.... I think population production can be highly significant, especially for research. Say 25% of it. That's especially true if you have maxed research pic -- which if you are keen on research I am guessing you did?

<scratches head in confusion>

When did I say that? :)

I'd agree with everything you said above, in fact.

[Dagda]

Originally posted by JosEPh
I'm pretty sure on the last one, that I made sure that there were no check marks? I guess I'll have to start a new game and make sure that they are not checked. Do you know if anyone else has had this happen?

I recall seeing a post about it in Bugs/Suggestions, but only one. I believe the player had used "Quick Game" as well.

I've never had the problem crop up myself, though.

[JosEPh]

I just started a new game , and made sure no checks in the senate box . I also looked in the victory tab and senate is grayed out. This got my curiosity up so i checked the last saved game for my last senate lost game and surprise it was grayed out also! No one else has had this happen to them? And what really bites was I was # 1 in all 3 of these lost senate games? 2 of those games had no senate contact at start of games. ? should I report this as a BUG?!

[Zhaneel]

Known bug. Will sometimes turn on Senate Victory. Reload from autosave from turn before and it should be off.

Zhaneel

[JosEPh]

Thanks Zhaneel, I deleted the first two but still have the 3rd one. One problem since I started anew game I don't have an autosave for that game left. Will a regular save work?

[Ron_Lugge]

Originally posted by JosEPh
Thanks Zhaneel, I deleted the first two but still have the 3rd one. One problem since I started anew game I don't have an autosave for that game left. Will a regular save work?

Should.

Also, if the senate button is greyed out that simply means you aren't in the senate - no more, no less.

[whyBish]

How do I get:
espionage
dis-information
subterfuge
betrayal
subversion
assassination

These are all listed on the box, have I missed them?

[Craig P.]

Originally posted by whyBish
How do I get:
espionage
dis-information
subterfuge
betrayal
subversion
assassination
Make and deploy scientific spies.
Not present (was originally in the game in some form).
This is a strategy game, subterfuge is a natural part of things.
This is a strategy game, betrayal is a natural part of things.
Make and deploy social spies.
Make and deploy political spies.

[Ron_Lugge]

Dis-information can be formed by making feints (building up publicly to assault system A, then hit system B on the other side of the guys area) or lying in the text messages (mplayer)/diplo.

I wouldn't recomend the MPlayer route, however.

[zanzibar]

Just remember: dis-information is as good as dat-information!! :D

[Dagda]

Originally posted by zanzibar
Just remember: dis-information is as good as dat-information!! :D

But only if you don't have access to de udder informaiton.

[Ron_Lugge]

<groan of agony>

[traeumer]

I have a couple of questions about gameplay. I’ve tried to go through a good portion of these forums, so please forgive me if these questions have already been answered. Here goes:

1) Is there any way to attack colony ships that are orbiting a system when you’re at war with another civilization?

2) I have a very powerful fleet that like to completely destroy the civilization on the planet, but I would rather invade the planet. How do I get my fleet to stop completely destroying all life on a planet?

[Rapunzel]

Hi,
I usually find Commandos/Psy-ops or something like that in my Millitary Build-que (at least when there is no ship in there:) ).
The Problem was I didn't got the Mariens in my Tech-tree :( , but got that one later by trade an noch have Mobile and Armor.
Now I have 1Billion Commandos, Hackers, Psy-Ops or whatever Support Uit is out there and the AI still builds more of them insted of actually building Armor, Mariens or Mobil's.

What can I do to make them build the Ground-Troops my Empire needs, instead of those I already have more than enough off??

Thanks for anny kind of suggestion...

[Lobachevsky]

1) Is there any way to attack colony ships that are orbiting a system when you’re at war with another civilization?

Yes, you just choose to intercept fleet when the combat scheduler comes up. You can only do this if you have a starship in system of course.
Or did you mean that you have enemy colony ships in the same system as another enemy? Even if that is the case you will be able to attack them as long as you have any starships in the system.

2) I have a very powerful fleet that like to completely destroy the civilization on the planet, but I would rather invade the planet. How do I get my fleet to stop completely destroying all life on a planet?

Don't bombard it. Just land toops. Or you can just fire a quarter of your weapons at it if you really want to bombard it. Or was this not the point of your question?

[Zhaneel]

I'm assuming here you are letting the AI control the Space Combat and/or Bombard area.

Control the Space/Bombard cycles. Both of them. This will open up the option to either bombard (destroy) or invade. Note that you must have troop vessels with troops in your fleets to be able to land troops and invade.

Zhaneel

[traeumer]

Thanks for the help with the other questions, here's another:

Is there any bonus associated with inhabiting a "guardian" planet when there is no Antaran X there?

[Zhaneel]

There is no bonus. Other than they are a homeworld for the maganate race of that type, should you have it as part of your empire. Killing the Guardian has a chance at giving you an X, and clears the path to the planets.

The planets may have specials, but no more than any other system.

Zhaneel

[strangedays]

Don't want any abuse, I am a first person gamer and real time strategy, I have dabled in Civ games before.


Post after post of how to play the game usually says send out ships to explore and then??? I get lost, are there any "rules" as to actually how to play,

Your views seem helpful but are bogged down by personal views that is just loosing me at the moment.

I can build new ships but how do I launch them? I have tried to launch them but I get put back to the ship design screen..

[Lobachevsky]

Click on the planet a translucent rectangle will appear. It will have such information as number of ships in the system and number of planets controlled in the system. At the bottom you will see two buttons:

1) Deploy taskforce
2) Create ground transport

Click deploy taskforce. You will get a screen with a set of grids on one side and a list of ships on the other. Fiddle to your heart's content. Remember to set missions/sizes as appropriate.

As regards other principles:
When you start a game build up food/mineral surplus, to fuel colonising drive. Once you start meeting enemy races you will want to switch some planets to industrial to build ships with which to kill the enemy. Oh and try to grab magnate races they're good.

[strangedays]

Whats a mission ship?

[Lobachevsky]

A ship with the same mission as the one which you have chosen for the TF. When you desing ships you specify mission e.g long range or carrier. There is a missions list and a size list at the top of the taskforce selection screen. Choose as most useful

[triller]

Originally posted by strangedays
Whats a mission ship?

In Shipyards/Fleets screen you can see the mission type of TFs.
Initial are Scouts - Reconaissance & Colony - Colony (starship)

Also in the built in designs note a System Colony mission.
This is cheaper for colonizing your home system.

Also for newly established systems, you can't deploy a TF until you build a Mobilization Center. You'll need some tech advances first. Whereever your Imperial Seat of Government is gets an implied Mobilization Center. At game start, it is your home planet.

Deploy away.

[shantar]

I have a question (well i have many questions, but this time only one :) ):

I have a planet with size 6/3, i know that the 6 is the size and number of zones of the planet, and 3 is the size of the moon, is 3 the number of zones of the moon?

If yes, where are these zones?

If no, for what is useful a moon, i know i can build more orbital defenses, aside of that, are useful for more things?

Thanks!

[Zhaneel]

Your 6/3 example is as follows:

You have 6 regions on your planet, which can be developed. The moon provides an additional 3 regions where people can live, but not work.

The game automatically knows that you can have 3 orbitals per (planet + # of moons) deployed, so you could have 6 orbitals deployed on your example planet. 'Course, you still have to build them all.

Zhaneel

[DavidByron]

You have 6 regions on your planet, which can be developed. The moon provides an additional 3 regions where people can live, but not work.

We don't know how moons behave. Certainly moons don't always add to the max population. The formula for this should now be easy to calculate as the regional max population is listed. While I haven't got the formula yet, the regularity of the numbers excludes the effect of moons in the limited cases I've seen.

I suspect moons may do nothing at all usually. I suspect they are like a special but you don't get told what the special is, or whether there is one.


Whereever your Imperial Seat of Government is gets an implied Mobilization Center

If your imperial seat is destroyed you can still build at the planet that last had the imperial seat until you build the imperial seat elsewhere.

[Da_Blade]

As posted before, moons always increase max pop of the world (people will live on moons). Furthermore it gives bonusses to mining and bioharvest, depending on the moon (Moons also have plains/broken mountain regions with different ecosystem density and have a mineral richness).

So a bioharvest DEA on a planet with a fertile moon produces more then a bioharvest on a planet without moon.

[DavidByron]

What is your source or evidence for this Da_Blade?

[Da_Blade]

Extensive testing. If you remember i once set off to get the exact numbers that moons add, but i abandoned that part since it was hard to test and you are unable to determine moon size, terrain and mineral richness anyways.

But there's a few things you can do to see it: just for fun modify the number of moons at your homeworld from 1 to 8 moons. You'll see you can house about 140 pop on your home planet, and the bio's output around 33 food each on the starting turn. Also, look at a red2 planet with a red moon: you can house exactly 1000x(planet size+moon size) on the planet, on a similar red2 planet without moons you can house exactly 1000xplanet size pop.

I have not seen any evidence yet moons affect anything but bio ouput, mine output and max pop yet.

[DavidByron]

Ok I looked into the population thing. The moons do add population to the planet's regions. It looks like you treat each moon as if it were a planet, calculate the max pop, add them all up and divide the total by the number of regions in the planet. Each planet region gets that amount added to its max.

I'll start a thread on it.

[Ron_Lugge]

Originally posted by DavidByron
I'll start a thread on it.

Links = good

[DavidByron]

Well then here it is (http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=299713)

Twice (http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=299713) :)

[shantar]

I have a question, again :)

I have a planet that is:

Size 12
Gravity: Extreme
Mineral: Rich
Food: Toxic

Well i have colinized it because i want a big planet to put a lot of industry and build ships quick there.

But, the planet don't receive economic grants, why?

i have 1070 AUs asigned to planetary grants in imperial economic, some planets receive it, others no (i think because they are well developed) but this is new and nothing, no grants......strange, bug perhaps?

[Zhaneel]

If you are playing with the patch, I've had this problem too. Some of my new colonies (haven't been able to find a common deminator yet) just won't get any grants. VERY frustrating.

I posted about it to the bug forum, but feel free to repost your stuff too.

Zhaneel

[noone1]

Planetary grants go to the planets that most need them which would usually mean developing planets such as yours.

This is only a guess, are u suffering from lack of food? if so it might be giving grants to planets which are able to produce food so ur people dont starve. As your planet is toxic the AI may ignore it when deciding who to give money to.

as i said i got no evidence that is true, only a theory.

[Zhaneel]

When I was testing I checked several things, during which time no planets were starving, short minerals or blockaded. In addition, there were less than 10 planets the entire course of the testing.

1) Did not seemt o matter if there was a gov DEA there or not (initially looked like you might need a gov DEA, but the grants did not start after one was built and a later planet got grants with no gov DEA).

2) Some planets always got grants, some only got grants half the time, some never got any. Very annoying for a new planet.

3) Having AI Econ on seemed to kickstart grants if they had gone away.

Zhaneel

[eugenemcardle]

Originally posted by JosEPh
Hi! I'm aNewb and my question is: Why do I lose games to senate victory when I didnot check the Senate Victory box at game start up ? I did not check Senate or "X's" and have lost 3 games to senate victory! Is this a BUG? [sorry that's 2 ?'s]
MAke sure you are a member of the Senate, and always vote for New Orions or yourself. I think that will stop other races winning.

[skykop]

I have noticed on a couple of my planets, that the first item in the military building queue is highlighted in light blue, is this a good thing or a bad thing, if a bad thing what is the matter?:bulb:

[Ron_Lugge]

Originally posted by skykop
I have noticed on a couple of my planets, that the first item in the military building queue is highlighted in light blue, is this a good thing or a bad thing, if a bad thing what is the matter?:bulb:

I'm not certain what your talking about, but it might simply mean that they've already started construction.

[traeumer]

I had an Antaran expedition inbound because they had found an X; however on the way back, all ships in that armada were lost. Does this mean that I'll be unable to find whatever X they were brining to me?

[Ron_Lugge]

Originally posted by traeumer
I had an Antaran inbound because they had found an X; however on the way back, all ships in that armada were lost. Does this mean that I'll be unable to find whatever X they were brining to me?

No, it simply means you'll have to look for it again... from scratch.

:mad:60:mad:second:mad:limit:mad:

[Zhaneel]

Originally posted by skykop
I have noticed on a couple of my planets, that the first item in the military building queue is highlighted in light blue, is this a good thing or a bad thing, if a bad thing what is the matter?:bulb:

Post patch: That Build Queue is locked. The AI won't add anything and will just repeat your previous orders.

Zhaneel

[smphang]

I notice in couple of my planets, the building time for some of the DEA is -1. But couple of turns passes, and still that DEA building is not build. Instead the production point seems to went to a the next DEA building in que. But eventually that DEA will shows a -1 building time too.... :cry:
Any idea what's happening?
Bug????

[Zhaneel]

Bug. I tend to delete the offending DEA and let the AI replace it the next turn.

Zhaneel

[nomicro4you]

Heavy Foot of Government: I read a few pages ago that:


2) In order to figure out how much that would cost you multiply the "base cost" by the Heavy Foot of Government currently applying (1.0 and up, though I've heard of rare 0.95 costs).


Should the screen that shows you the cost also show you the actual cost inclusive of the Heavy Foot of Government?

If it did, I think it would save you the time having to jump to the victory screen to see if your HFoG changed or not.

In fact, anywhere on the game screens where you see a number, and it's a number you have to make a decision on, then the game should show you how it will interpret that number after all relevant modifiers have been applied.

I used to create reports for people - they want to see the end result, not switch spreadsheet pages and come up with a number in their heads. Ah, well, back to research.

EDIT: Thanks, Zhaneel. That sounds reasonable. I wasn't sure if the HFoG was used in the other screens since I haven't gotten that far into the game, yet. I can live with the way it works now.

[Zhaneel]

The cost you see listed on the planet is the cost including any HFoG multiplier (and planetary specials).

The cost you see list in the design screen is the base cost. It can't show you the cost with HFoG, because that will change over time.

Zhaneel

[nomicro4you]

OK, I started my "easy" game over, turned off senate victory (so I don't get sidetracked), and I'm now playing as Cynoid. I am reading the economics/DEA theory threads to get my development plans setup, and I've found a few posts in various forums on Cynoid economic and development strategies.

I few questions about colonization and shipbuilding strategies have come to my mind:

1) Should I disregard colony ships altogether and just build outpost ships and use migration? I saw a post or two where people were some people were using strategies to quick-fire populate planets with outposts and use migration to fill up the planets quickly.

2) Ship design - to lower the cost of scout ships and one-way colony-type ships (including outposts), should I throw out the default designs and build a new hull with the same starship drives, but make the system-drives smaller so the ships are cheaper?

I have seen threads where people throw out the default scount and build a very small scout ship-type in order to "swarm" them out at the beginning of the game. But could I apply the same technique to colony/outpost type ships, yet reduce their innner-system engine size?

I'm not worried about losing these ships in combat, since they would not be able to outrun the enemy in systems - I want to make them cheap enough to crank them out quickly and get them to the remote stars quickly.

As my economy improves I can always design new ships with maxed system drives and a colony or output module if necessary.

[Ron_Lugge]

Originally posted by nomicro4you
OK, I started my "easy" game over, turned off senate victory (so I don't get sidetracked), and I'm now playing as Cynoid. I am reading the economics/DEA theory threads to get my development plans setup, and I've found a few posts in various forums on Cynoid economic and development strategies.

I few questions about colonization and shipbuilding strategies have come to my mind:

1) Should I disregard colony ships altogether and just build outpost ships and use migration? I saw a post or two where people were some people were using strategies to quick-fire populate planets with outposts and use migration to fill up the planets quickly.

Dealer's choice, I'd say.

2) Ship design - to lower the cost of scout ships and one-way colony-type ships (including outposts), should I throw out the default designs and build a new hull with the same starship drives, but make the system-drives smaller so the ships are cheaper?

I have seen threads where people throw out the default scount and build a very small scout ship-type in order to "swarm" them out at the beginning of the game. But could I apply the same technique to colony/outpost type ships, yet reduce their innner-system engine size?

I'm not worried about losing these ships in combat, since they would not be able to outrun the enemy in systems - I want to make them cheap enough to crank them out quickly and get them to the remote stars quickly.

As my economy improves I can always design new ships with maxed system drives and a colony or output module if necessary. [/B]

As a general rule, in early game a colony ship can absorb enough damage to retreat easily. Once you start getting missiles/fighters out in numbers, that decreases, but by then you tend to know where to and where not to send your guys. GO ahead, reduce to 1 all your system speeds... I usually do so with colony ships myself.

[noone1]

Lowering the system speed of ships can be a good idea for your non combat ships as in a combat the most they will do is sit a the back/or retreat.

I have also tried doing this with IF and Carrier ships, thus giving them more space for lots of missiles/fighter however it would prolly backfire if u play another human who unlike the AI will react and target them.


and now my question..

when fighting against the orions if you take one of there planets you cant attack any more as they seem to have a higher innitive or something (i read something about it a while ago) Is there any way to get around this?

[Ron_Lugge]

Originally posted by noone1
and now my question..

when fighting against the orions if you take one of there planets you cant attack any more as they seem to have a higher innitive or something (i read something about it a while ago) Is there any way to get around this?

Its a bug that (supposedly) has been fixed post-patch.

Haven't checked that out yet....

[Da_Blade]

I think iit's solved since i've been forced to defend at my own planet in-system while i ordered an attack on another planet for my fleet. This means the coinflip now works.

[noone1]

I knew it had been brought up and now it seems it was (supposibly) fixed. It's likly that my game had some wierd circumstances in it that for some reason made the bug still appear.

Was no problem i just solved it by giving the planets to the other civs (the ones that had one planet and several amadas making sure they dont go anywhere - those types :P) and then once i had taken em all i just took em of the others, which while took a little longer wasn't the end of the world.

tries to think of another question....
...
nup...

[nomicro4you]

Originally posted by Ron_Lugge
As a general rule, in early game a colony ship can absorb enough damage to retreat easily. Once you start getting missiles/fighters out in numbers, that decreases, but by then you tend to know where to and where not to send your guys. GO ahead, reduce to 1 all your system speeds... I usually do so with colony ships myself.

I tried this, and found making the system engine smaller reduces the size of the engine, but the cost is the same. Darn union labor ;)

I sent out a colony ship to a magnate and an outpost to a green world in my core system. Using Migration I have control of the Magnate world, but the outpost world is still growing (slowly, of course).

Should I colonize all my core-system worlds? I have 8 of them with various desirability factors - it would be easy to send outposts to all of them and have them build up slowly with migration, but half of them have hostile environments. I assume I would have to import food in some cases, but not minerals, since many are mineral rich and I am Cynoid (rocks are yummy).

Should I colonize all of these core worlds or will this cause too much havoc with food and mineral production?

[Ron_Lugge]

As a general rule, I colonize anything thats green 2 or above, but ONLY green 2 or above, unless its a magnate race. I don't go for "super-specials" or anything like that. I then allow migration to fill them up, or prefereably back-fill my empire by conquering somebody else's race.

[noone1]

only in exceptional cucumstances would i ever colonise anything worse than green 2, maybe if it is huge, very rich with a nice special etc then it could be worth while. I agree with ron in that its better to backfill yellow and red planets with magnates and captured races.

[Da_Blade]

Yellow1 and even Yellow2 aren't that bad either. And if i am low on planets i'll start the red planets too, just so they are reasonable colonies by the time i have the tech to terraform them into submission ;)

Also, if i'm low on rich worlds i'll even colonize red2 very rich worlds too, too use them as huge mining outposts.

Oh and read for colonizing: outposts and migration for anything lower then green2. I use outposts quite extensively, they are a lot cheaper and you need those extra pennies to build the war ships you now need desperately after patch.

[Rapunzel]

Hi,
I usually find Commandos/Psy-ops or something like that in my Millitary Build-que (at least when there is no ship in there ).
The Problem was I didn't got the Mariens in my Tech-tree , but got that one later by trade an now have Mobile and Armor.
Now I have 1Billion Commandos, Hackers, Psy-Ops or whatever Support Unit is out there and the AI still builds more of them insted of actually building Armor, Mariens or Mobil's.

What can I do to make them build the Ground-Troops my Empire needs, instead of those I already have more than enough off??

Thanks for anny kind of suggestion...

[posted again]

[Zhaneel]

You have to maually add the ones you want and/or lock the queues.

I would suggest heading in manually to your midrange industrial planets and lock in MobileX10 and/or MarineX10

This way you get your combat units built (with a slight discount) and those planets won't build any support units.

In addition, you should have your main industrial planets locked and building your big ships and/or shipyard supports.

Zhaneel

[Da_Blade]

Yeah, because of the blue color of locked build queue's you can easily find them back, and if you lock only 1 or 2 items into the build queue, you have enough space to fit in any other building you need in there (mostly shipyard and planetary bases). Since these can only be build once, they won't be repeaten...

I usually build ground units on planets with a majority magnate population, which are all (except gnolam) better ground troops then my original empire ones.

[Rapunzel]

Thanks for the ideas, so i will have to micro these.

[Woodcarver]

Originally posted by Zhaneel
You have to maually add the ones you want and/or lock the queues.

I would suggest heading in manually to your midrange industrial planets and lock in MobileX10 and/or MarineX10

This way you get your combat units built (with a slight discount) and those planets won't build any support units.

In addition, you should have your main industrial planets locked and building your big ships and/or shipyard supports.

Zhaneel

Wow -- I can lock build queues? How? I just looked at the queues screen and can't figure out how to do it; I also can't find anything in the manuals.

[eugenemcardle]

Click the little lock(s), near the AU button

Also, just got a message from QSI.. patch 1.2.4 is in the pipeline

http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=277756

[Woodcarver]

Originally posted by eugenemcardle
Click the little lock(s), near the AU button


Thanks for the response, but: Little lock near the AU button? Nowhere to be found.

I looked in the sub-panel of the "Economics" panel, where the Military and Planetary build queue icons are found. There are the three little images/icons showing what's being built, a slider, and an expander tab for each queue that gives the Military or Planetary Queue control panel.

At the top right of this sub-panel, there is a pair of toggle buttons that give the option to view the slider values by "percent" or "AU". Is that the AU button you're talking about? If so, there's no lock anywhere nearby. Should I be looking somewhere else?

One possible difference between our experiences may be that I'm running MoO3 in OS X on a Mac... Can anyone with a Mac verify the existence of the ability to lock a queue?

Anyone?

I really hope that either the allegedly upcoming Mac codepatch, or the current version of the game, allows for queue locking. It would really increase my enjoyment of the game. As it is, I have to either sort through a huge number of yellow build reports every turn, or accept armadas of transports and grunts.

[Zhaneel]

The little lock is near the AU/% thing.

BUT ONLY IF YOU PATCHED.

Zhaneel

[Ron_Lugge]

Originally posted by Zhaneel
The little lock is near the AU/% thing.

BUT ONLY IF YOU PATCHED.

Zhaneel

I think he just discovered why macs suck for games (stuff is always out later for them than for us... SUCKERS!) ;)

[Woodcarver]

Originally posted by Ron_Lugge
I think he just discovered why macs suck for games (stuff is always out later for them than for us... SUCKERS!) ;)

Yep. Better for everything else, though. Guess it depends how much of your life you spend playing games....LOSERS!

;) indeed

[whyBish]

Originally posted by Da_Blade
Yellow1 and even Yellow2 aren't that bad either. And if i am low on planets i'll start the red planets too, just so they are reasonable colonies by the time i have the tech to terraform them into submission ;)

Also, if i'm low on rich worlds i'll even colonize red2 very rich worlds too, too use them as huge mining outposts.

Oh and read for colonizing: outposts and migration for anything lower then green2. I use outposts quite extensively, they are a lot cheaper and you need those extra pennies to build the war ships you now need desperately after patch.

I don't care about the terraform zone, I'll colonize any planet that is green gravity.

[eugenemcardle]

I think he just discovered why macs suck for games (stuff is always out later for them than for us... SUCKERS!)

Originally posted by Woodcarver
Yep. Better for everything else, though. Guess it depends how much of your life you spend playing games....LOSERS!
;) indeed

Where I come from a Mac is only good for keeping you dry in the rain;). In the US of A, you can even use it as a truck....

[nomicro4you]

Focus Detection Arrays:

I am still early in my game (Cynoid, turn 15 haha), and now that I have figured out a decent explore/expand strategy, I need to turn to the process of shipbuilding, since the nearby gasbags have made a galatic pastime out of declaring war on me.

I am building some ships to help bulk-up a chokepoint that I think they will eventually run into.

I was going to build some SR-ships for defense in my chokepoint (small colony there, not big enough to make anything useful), and I noticed in the Auto-build for a Destroyer chassis that the computer adds the special "Focus Detection Array" (FDA).

From one of the ship combat mechanics threads it's mentioned that detection-sensors have no effect on weapon accuracy, just allow you to see the enemy ships a further distance away in combat.

I like having the idea of an FDA, but it eats up 15 hull space points, which I could instead use for another weapon.

Should I :

a) build my defensive-destroyers with the FDA's installed, or

b) should I not place the FDA on the destroyers, and instead build one or two small support ships with the FDA installed and deploy them with the destroyer taskforces?

If the effects of this sensor are only visual, then I assume this makes the effect cumulative with the task-force the ship is a member of. As long as this smaller support-ship follows around the Destroyers then the enemy ships that appear in range near the task force should be visible to the destroyers as well.

I hope option B) is workable, since that means I can bring more guns to bear on the enemy in a defensive situation.

[Rapunzel]

You are Cynoid and are on turn 15 and already have FDA and are building Destroyers? wow, am I so slow, or are you soooo fast :bulb:

[Da_Blade]

Since sensors are only cumulative for the SHIP they are on, i'd advice building one support ship with little or even no weapons (they are called recon ships) and forget about the sensors on the destroyers. Also i would consider building frigates because destroyers are a bit heavy on the industry that early in the game, imo. But anyways, a recon ship in early game is not really neccesary unless you make exclusive missile or carrier groups, you will then need a good recon ship to be able to fire the missiles and fighters way before they see you.

Ships without sensors are not blind, they still are able to see somewhat, though it's not far. But it sure is far enough for the early game beam weapons.

[Ron_Lugge]

Sensors are seperate from ECCM, which is done by ship.

Sensors (which IIRC can only be built one to a ship) decrease the range for targeting and detection purposes. Thus, you want it on the ship firing the weapons to help increase its accuraccy, and on the ship which does the detection (maybe, still not certain) to help increase the range at which you can detect the enemy.

[nomicro4you]

Originally posted by Rapunzel
You are Cynoid and are on turn 15 and already have FDA and are building Destroyers? wow, am I so slow, or are you soooo fast :bulb:

I think I already had the Focus Dectection Array (FDA) - I'm using one of the mega-mods (Colin the Gray), so I think that tech could have been already available. Or I had it through luck.

I assume I can build destroyers now since I'm playing Cynoid, and they have a superior manufacturing skill. The destroyer I designed was only half the price of a colony ship (430 AU), and I have 4500 AU in the bank right now.

I am playing on Easy, code-patched, and I'm only fighting against 3 other CPU players (plus the New Orions). Since I'm in the Senate, I immediately set up trade agreements with 3 other races.

But from what I have learned about the FDA, I will go back and re-evalutate if I should build Frigates instead. I liked having a destroyer for defense since each one could handle more punishment as they rush in to attack the invaders, and I could crank them out quickly.

Hmm - I just analyzed the cost of building similarly-equiped ships using the various hull designs and came up with these results. The destroyer seems to be a better deal than the frigate!

I'm using a metric called "Cost Per Gun" to give one an idea how much it costs to bring each gun to bear depending on the ships built.

Cost Per Gun is the total price of the completed ship divided by the number of guns.

(I was going to build a table but it's too much formatting work):

Each ship has FDA and Zortrium Light armor and standard Mass Driver weapon mounts. I pulled the spinal mounts - spinals have more damage but the rate of fire is slower than standard mounts. Also, in some cases in order maximize the number of guns I lowered the thruster speed by 100 or 200:

Hull: Frigate (max 139 space)
Standard Mass Drivers: 2 (28 max damage)
Speed: 1400 (lowered)
Cost: 407 AU
Cost Per Gun: 203.5 AU

Hull: Destroyer (max 199 space)
Standard Mass Drivers: 3 (42 max damage)
Speed: 1500 (Max)
Cost: 486 AU
Cost Per Gun: 162 AU

Hull: Light Cruiser (max 284 space)
Standard Mass Drivers: 5 (70 max damage)
Speed: 1300 (Lowered)
Cost: 610 AU
Cost Per Gun: 122 AU :up:

Hull: Light Cruiser (max 284 space)
Standard Mass Drivers: 4 (56 max damage)
Speed: 1500 (Max)
Cost: 601 AU
Cost Per Gun: 150 AU

As you can see from these figures, the lowest cost per gun is the Light Cruiser hull, with the thruster speed lowered to 1300. Even if I took out a mass driver and raised the Light Cruiser speed to 1500, the cost per gun is lower than if I built the destroyer model.

To me it appears the Destroyer with FDA is a better deal than a Frigate with FDA.

Are my calculations out of wack? I'm using Colin the Gray's mod. Being Cynoid, am I gaining anything in manufacturing ships that I don't know about? Or are the hull prices simply a better deal as you increase the size? I'm still playing in the Tech level 1 and 2 range.

[Ron_Lugge]

Originally posted by nomicro4you
Are my calculations out of wack? I'm using Colin the Gray's mod. Being Cynoid, am I gaining anything in manufacturing ships that I don't know about? Or are the hull prices simply a better deal as you increase the size? I'm still playing in the Tech level 1 and 2 range. [/B]

Cost per gun is one thing, but there is also the cost-per-hitpoint (hit points = number of space units) and the cost per armor point (which DOESN'T change from hull to hull; heavy adamantium on a frigate gives the same advantage to a frigate or a leviathan, and IIRC have differen't prices)

[benneyb]

I'm playing a small cluster galaxy with 4 AI opponents for my first game. Where do I see the cost (and later benefits) of any trade agreements and research agreements? My interstellar trade number is still 15, which it was on the first turn, as I began as a member of the Orion Senate. I have 3 trade agreements and 2 research agreements, but don't see any info on them.

Thanks.

[Ron_Lugge]

Originally posted by benneyb
I'm playing a small cluster galaxy with 4 AI opponents for my first game. Where do I see the cost (and later benefits) of any trade agreements and research agreements? My interstellar trade number is still 15, which it was on the first turn, as I began as a member of the Orion Senate. I have 3 trade agreements and 2 research agreements, but don't see any info on them.

Thanks.

Try the financial screen...

IIRC, there aren't any real numbers past "We have XXX pacts" - trade gives you money, research gives you RP.

:mad:60:mad:second:mad:limit:mad:

edit:

Also, IIRC, open border agreements let your spaceport level trade occur across - borders (ie, the spaceports can trade with enemy AI planets as if they are in your empire instead)

[benneyb]

Ron,

Thanks. I'm now seeing numbers appear under "Interstellar Trade" on the Finance screen.

[benneyb]

After getting through about 60 turns in my first game, I have some more questions.

1) I have disabled the individual planetary AI, yet things still are being built/changed without me initiating them. Examples - DEA zones being setup, and Planetary items like Deep Extraction Mining being built automatically, yet I don't see them in the Planetary build queue options (actually this is blank for all my planets, and has been until my system seat of gov't was destroyed by spies). What is the story with this?

2) Related to No.1, arent items like Deep Extraction Mining supposed to appear in the Plantetary queue?

3) I have successfully researched and prototyped Titanium armor many turns ago. Yet, the description of this tech says something to the effect of adding X to soldiers armor. There is no mention of ship armor, and I do NOT have this armor available. What is the story here? Is there a seperate Titanium Ship armor to be discovered?

4) Similarly, Mobilization Centers. I have researched and prototyped them, yet they do not appear anywhere in any of the build queues to be chosen. I even changed an existing DEA to Military, thinking that would make it available, but no luck. How are the MCs accessed?

Thanks for any help.

:confused:

[Ron_Lugge]

Originally posted by benneyb
After getting through about 60 turns in my first game, I have some more questions.

1) I have disabled the individual planetary AI, yet things still are being built/changed without me initiating them. Examples - DEA zones being setup, and Planetary items like Deep Extraction Mining being built automatically, yet I don't see them in the Planetary build queue options (actually this is blank for all my planets, and has been until my system seat of gov't was destroyed by spies). What is the story with this?

Deactivating the VRs means they won't touch the slider bars. Thats it.

[qutoe]2) Related to No.1, arent items like Deep Extraction Mining supposed to appear in the Plantetary queue?[/quote]

Nope. Thats for planetary, not regional level buildings.

3) I have successfully researched and prototyped Titanium armor many turns ago. Yet, the description of this tech says something to the effect of adding X to soldiers armor. There is no mention of ship armor, and I do NOT have this armor available. What is the story here? Is there a seperate Titanium Ship armor to be discovered?

Some armors are for ships, other armors are for troops. THey are totally seperate teks.

4) Similarly, Mobilization Centers. I have researched and prototyped them, yet they do not appear anywhere in any of the build queues to be chosen. I even changed an existing DEA to Military, thinking that would make it available, but no luck. How are the MCs accessed?

A) IIRC, there is a pop level requirement.
B) IIRC, there needs to be a gov center with a system seat
C) Can't be built in the system containing empire seat

Thanks for any help.

:confused: [/B]

Your welcome.

[benneyb]

Ron,

Thanks again - A little clarification please. 1) Regarding what you said re. Regional/Planetary items, I take it the player has no control over Regional items, that those are built by the viceroys, whenever they feel like it?

Now this:

Judging from the below, this seems to imply that I can't build a MC on my Homeworld, and thus launch an invasion from there, if both the system and empire seat are on that planet?

Thanks again.

quote:
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4) Similarly, Mobilization Centers. I have researched and prototyped them, yet they do not appear anywhere in any of the build queues to be chosen. I even changed an existing DEA to Military, thinking that would make it available, but no luck. How are the MCs accessed?
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A) IIRC, there is a pop level requirement.
B) IIRC, there needs to be a gov center with a system seat
C) Can't be built in the system containing empire seat

[Zhaneel]

The Regional build queue isn't something you can directly control.

You can plan out all the DEAs and/or stop funding to prevent DEAs from being built. You can manually remove DEAs and DEA improvements, or remove the improvements while in process. Not sure why you'd want to stop the improvements, but there you go.

Your Homeworld/Imperial Seat AUTOMATICALLY has a mob center equavlent. That's why when you click on your home system from the galaxy map you have the two buttons (Task Force Creation and Ground Force Creation) availible.

Zhaneel

[Strifeguard]

Originally posted by benneyb
Regarding what you said re. Regional/Planetary items, I take it the player has no control over Regional items, that those are built by the viceroys, whenever they feel like it

There's a HUGE difference between "no control" and "no direct control". This is where macro-management comes into play.

If you give a planet DevPlans that read mine/mine/mine then it will build deep extraction mining into all of your mining DEAs before building other items. On the otherhand, if you give a planet DevPlans that read trade/trade/trade it will hold off on building the deep extraction mining improvements until it has finished putting up Space Ports in every region. You can more-or-less figure out which plans are necessary for which buildings (i.e. farm for hydroponic farms, manufacturing for automated factories, etc.)

Mixing and matching goals in DevPlans will encourage the Viceroys to build buildings related to whatever goals you've set. Thus, you don't necessarily need to make all DevPlans mine/mine/mine in order to get Deep Extraction mines built in all your mining DEAs. Rather, putting "mine" in the primary slot of a DevPlan will probably be enough.

Thus, the player has control over when/how "regional buildings" are put up, but not direct control (i.e. "build this, here, now")

[benneyb]

Thanks Guys, its starting to make a bit more sense now. :bulb:

[Ron_Lugge]

Originally posted by benneyb
Thanks Guys, its starting to make a bit more sense now. :bulb:

Good. It IS a complex game... but I love it for a reason.

My favorite is how industry DEAs produce money and PPS... and then I start thinking about why the over-productio costs, and I realize they *had* to ahve considered real economics (like a PPF [Production Possibilities Frontier] and its effects)

[benneyb]

Now I just need to figure out why almost none of my proposed Tech Exchanges are accepted, even with 100+ relations in some cases. :cry:

[Ron_Lugge]

Originally posted by benneyb
Now I just need to figure out why almost none of my proposed Tech Exchanges are accepted, even with 100+ relations in some cases. :cry:

Don't look at me. I dunno. The AI is really wierd when it comes to trades.

Try demanding the tecks, instead.

:mad:60:mad:second:mad:limit:mad:

[Strifeguard]

Originally posted by benneyb
Now I just need to figure out why almost none of my proposed Tech Exchanges are accepted, even with 100+ relations in some cases.

It can take a LOOONG time to get the feel for tech trades in this game.

If you're really having trouble try some basic gorund rules:
1) Always offer the AI a profit in terms of the trade. They should come of slightly better off. Hey, if you're trading instead of stealing, this is something you need to be comfortable with from the get-go.
2) Try and offer the AI techs that aren't in its respective tech trees. You can figure this out fairly easily through the newly implemented right-click text description of technologies. If all the technologies you can trade to an opponent are from lvl 26, but one is from lvl 20, odds are it's because its missing from his tech tree. Even though its at a lower level, it's more valuable, because they have no easy way to obtain it.
3) If you're having trouble out-teching the AI sufficiently enough to offer lucrative trades, try dumping more spending into one of the fields temporarily. Nothing opens your options more than having a quick 5+ levels worth of techs to offer.

I almost never get turned down when I offer trades to the AI now. (I'd same I'm successful at least 4 out of 5 times) You just need to get a real feel for it. After a while, you won't even see yourself getting ripped off (so much) anymore in tech trades you make.

Note: Many posters have complained that they should be able to make so-called "fair trades" with the AI, and that the AI should not be "coming out ahead". If, however, you consider trades that the AI offers to you, they frequently involve you coming out ahead. Usually they're offering 3 techs for 1 or 2 of yours, and the tech levels will almost always be comparable. This reflects real life, people don't like to shop at stores where they know they're paying for what you get, they like to get bargains.