Grievance Display (Continued)

[Cras]

____________________________________________________
Originally Posted by Peyre

The complexity of things affecting the AI's relations with you make it pretty difficult to figure out why they're doing what they are. How about if we had something like the following to simplify things?

In the Foreign Matrix section of the Foreign Office tab, when you click on a race to see your current treaties, wars, casus belli, etc., why not add a Grievances section? That could list things that are making that empire unhappy about you. So, instead of an empire slowly growing more upset about you because of a troop buildup you've had in one of your shared systems (which you never thought was a problem because they never said anything about it), you could see it in the Foreign Matrix--and you could move your ships to make them happy, if you wanted. It would also be handy for provoking war if you felt so inclined.

Maybe items that are making the AI very upset could be boldfaced or have a star next to them, or they could be listed in order of most severe. For instance you might see something like this:

Grievances
Troop buildup at Indelibus
Alliance with Lanimaru
Spying (you are being framed)
Troop buildup at Naam

In the example above, the buildup at Naam might be only a scout you've forgotten to move on to the next unexplored system, while you might have a sizeable fleet parked at Indelibus. I'm also obviously speculating that spying hurts relations.
____________________________________________________

Edit: Added this in as a Poll, hopefully indicating how happy people are with the level of feedback they are recieving from diplomacy. Great suggestion Peyre!

Edit: added in my example of how this could appear in a diplomacy tab/window. Including Cassi Belli adjusting of the said actions.

Suggestion/ Example:

(Empire Info/Grievance Tab)

Grievance List: Citizens View & Cassi Belli Adjust
3. Spie Actions -10
2. Alliance Obligations -50
1. Extermination of Specie -100

Commending/Friendly action List
3. Research Treaty +20
2. Trade Treaty +20
1. Recieving Tribute +100

As you can see in this example it gives you a precise way to respond to the negative actions you are doing, and can correct them. This also indicates how what you are doing is changing the other Empires citizens view of your empire, thus making it more likely for war or heading for a secure friendly relation/ alliance.


In other news. . . .
In order to improve diplomatic relations, the Human empire has adopted the new "I'm Rubber, your Glue!" policy to negotiations with Aliens.

[teecee]

Thanks for the poll, Cras.

Consider my vote here as a vote for Peyre's "Grievances Display".

QSI should really take a long, hard look at that thread. Maybe even sticky the darn thing.

Another good poll would be to ask whether people are tired of bumping that thread and asking QSI to sticky it.:D

Just in case someone stumbles in here and hasn't read the thread, here it is.


http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=289177

tc

[Strifeguard]

Um, Cras, I like humor in polls, but is there anyway you could tone this down? And also, please go back and change the Title to "Grievances Display" instead of Diplomacy feedback.

I'm asking this because:
A) Many people are used to seeing the "Grievances Display" thread at this point, so a poll with the same title will be easily recognized and will recieve votes more quickly
B) There have been at least as many rants about a lack of diplomacy feedback as there have been rants about why Moo3 was not Moo2.5 When I see a thread with the title "diplomacy feedback" I mentally screen it out. I wouldn't have even looked at this if it wasn't for TC's link.

[Cras]

Your right, Changed title to Grievance Display :)

Was really trying to reinforce Peyres original thread as it seems to be getting nowhere even though having quite significant support. Would be nice to see at least a sticky or better yet a reply from QSI that it may not be feasible to implement or not this patch, something. :weird:

@Strifeguard um yeah the humor is a little senseless sorry, was late after work when i posted this. Though with people having already voted its probably not a good idea to modify the questions too much, unless you have a good suggestion. . . .

(Edit:Fluff to my post)

In other news. . . .
Current GNN Grievance list Ratings are. . . .
#3 Elerian Mud Wrestling is cancelled?
#2 Wheres my Space EEL?
#1 No GNN in MOO3?
You have insulted the great GNN empire for the last time, we are at war QSI ! :p

[Peyre]

Originally posted by Cras
Edit: Added this in as a Poll, hopefully indicating how happy people are with the level of feedback they are recieving from diplomacy. Great suggestion Peyre!

Thank you, Cras! It's good to see people like my Modest Proposal. :D

[Cras]

Originally posted by Peyre
Thank you, Cras! It's good to see people like my Modest Proposal. :D

OOoo a celebrity!

Look at the mess you started! :p

In other news. . . . .

In a recent study by QSI, 4 out of 5 MOO3 players have been confirmed to be "Giant Nerds". When asked for comment QSI replied " Yes anyone who responds to the title of a computer game with a cow sound, can indeed be classified as a GIANT NERD"

[Lobachevsky]

Amazing I thought this one would be unanimous but it seems there is someone who doesn't care afterall :confused:

[Cras]

Originally posted by Lobachevsky
Amazing I thought this one would be unanimous but it seems there is someone who doesn't care afterall :confused:

He's probably some filthy ithkul :D

In other news. . . . .
"Giant Nerds" have been reported to be protesting outside of the news room, apparently discontent over being labeled Giant Nerds. When asked for comment the protesters simply replied " MOOOOoooo!"

[Lobachevsky]

He's probably some filthy ithkul

and we all know how much I like Ithkul :p

[teecee]

Uh oh. I just thought of something.

If the moderators don't sticky the thread, we'll have TWO threads that we have to keep bumping.:bulb:

tc

[Lobachevsky]

<sudden heart attack>

ok I'm back but someone actually disagrees :eek: How? Whoever you are please come and explain! If nothing else you could explain how you interpret the AI's wonderful threat "Oh by the way I hate you and now I will declare war on you" despite the fact that at the time you had half-a-dozen treaties with them

[Zanteogo]

This would work.

Diplomancy as it is now is very.. umm.. lacking.

[Cras]

Originally posted by teecee1960
Uh oh. I just thought of something.

If the moderators don't sticky the thread, we'll have TWO threads that we have to keep bumping.:bulb:

tc

And Bump them we well! :rolleyes:

It should probably be noted that at least it is my intention to keep this idea alive until there is some response from QSI. They are incredibly busy and it is not likely for this to make patch, however a great idea for future patches. . . . . :weird:

[LizardMan]

This is a great idea, just remember, if the Sakkra and the Klackons have a mutual back-scratching deal involving your total destruction, don't expect them to tell you about it. At least I wouldn't.

[Cras]

Originally posted by LizardMan
This is a great idea, just remember, if the Sakkra and the Klackons have a mutual back-scratching deal involving your total destruction, don't expect them to tell you about it. At least I wouldn't.

Dont think the AI is that intelligent/devious, perhaps the AI will somehow be tweaked to be that under handed in future. The grievance in that case would show up as "Alliance Obligations" or somesuch would work.

In other news. . . .
The Ithkul grievance top 3 list for Your empire is. . .
#3 Time for an Ithkul "hug" ?
#2 We invented a great seasoning salt just for your specie.
#1 Mmmm Alien delicacies!

[Krikkitone]

definitely needed, saving from thread death

[FiretronP75]

I'm glad this trend is catching on... at least in the realm of players. Now it needs to in the realm of developers.

[Cras]

Wow this is a great idea, maybe it should be stickied or something. . . . . . . :weird:

[Cras]

Whats this?

Another sticky about a grievance display?

What utter spam these are, what will we do theres just so many of them?

[teecee]

81 to 1 with 4 "who cares". WOW, pretty overwhelming.

It's been a few since I checked the score.

tc:D

[Cras]

Originally posted by teecee1960
81 to 1 with 4 "who cares". WOW, pretty overwhelming.

It's been a few since I checked the score.

tc:D

I think the "who cares" response is also along the lines of pointing to the fact that players have no diplomatic feedback and are therefore frustrated to the point of staying at war with everyone.

Quite a significant amount of responses :)

Good thing I didnt put pie in there. . . .

[teecee]

Or Halle Berry.

tc:D

[Cras]

Shhhhh !!!

Dont mention halle berry or pie !!

The hijackers will come!!

<Runs for cover>


On topic: Any response from QSI on Grievance/diplomacy feedback would be really nice. They could kill 3 threads of spam by just saying no its too much work and isnt going to happen. Just any response would be nice. :(

[teecee]

This thread is jackproofable!:haha:

tc

[Yoshi En Son]

Heck, I voted the "don't care" because I felt it was more telling to the lack of diplomatic feedback.

Honestly - all the playing that I've done was in trying to get the AI to act a bit smarter.. maybe bumping my head into the wall - but since I'm trying to get the AI to consistantly attack me.. I not only haven't cared about them being mad - I've been encouraging it! (which is odd because in a lot of games I have plastered 2-3 of their worlds and have half a dozen others blockaded and they will STILL offer trade agreements!)

[Underling]

Just checked out both threads. OUTSTANDING suggestion!

My advice to the thread founder would be to get peyre to edit the first post of his thread to link to this poll. That way you're back down to bumping just one thread but can still garner new votes.

Here's hoping that our greivances regarding the greivance threads get redressed soon:D

[Cras]

Originally posted by Yoshi En Son
Heck, I voted the "don't care" because I felt it was more telling to the lack of diplomatic feedback.

Honestly - all the playing that I've done was in trying to get the AI to act a bit smarter.. maybe bumping my head into the wall - but since I'm trying to get the AI to consistantly attack me.. I not only haven't cared about them being mad - I've been encouraging it! (which is odd because in a lot of games I have plastered 2-3 of their worlds and have half a dozen others blockaded and they will STILL offer trade agreements!)

I figured thats why people would be voting for that. Lack of opponents kinda defeats the point of maintaining diplomatic politeness.

In other news. . . . .
Mrrshans have been spotted terrorizing the galaxy while riding naked on their pet space EELs. Experts speculate it is all a publicity stunt by the former race.

[Lobachevsky]

Honestly - all the playing that I've done was in trying to get the AI to act a bit smarter..

Ah come on the chief reason I want this is so that I can irritate the AI more effectively. Some computer empires don't declare war on you even when you are conquering their worlds, if that doesn't irritate them I want to know what does :D.

[Flinx]

OMG! it's been 'stickyed'

YEAH!:D :D :D

[Breetai Tul]

Yay! Stickied! :)

Does this mean now that the programmers will include it in the next patch ? Please more varied threats for the player to send, too, then! :)

Magnus

[Cras]

With respect to Peyres original idea, this thread was just stickied! Thank you.


I know the devs have previously discussed that the diplomacy does in fact make sense, its simply a matter of a lack of feedback as to why other races interact with the player the way they do.

This is a critical feature in the game, when playing in a galaxy full of aliens the player should have the faintest idea of what he can do to win them over or further aggravate them. Having seen responses in the poll many have no clue whats going on, moreso the votes that "stay at war with everyone all the time" im sure is a result of the "no point to diplomacy feeling". Although it should be pointed out many are staying at war as to get some sort of military response from the poor AI as well.

Hopefully we can see a response from QSI as to how feasible this is to implement as well as any of their planned fixes for improving the clarity of the feedback.

In other news . . . . .
People who have been protesting the "Grievance Display" idea have been lately reporting the odd symptom of feeling sticky. :D

[Lord Aramus]

sticky sticky stiiikeeeee!

Kanga Kanga Kaaaangaa!

[Lobachevsky]

It's been stickied :eek:. I thought I'd never see the day :D. Well that's made my night! ;)

[xeryx]

WOW!!!,QS has been doing a SUPERVELOUS job posting on the board, and stickying this thread just re-enforces that they ARE listening to us NOW!!! What a great feeling. I HOPE (Very Strongly) that they re-read the BUG thread, and more HOT topics on this board. Because after all WE are the TRUE BETA testers, and it's OUR game after all, they would be very wise to KEEP listening. Especially after the patch is released.

THANK YOU QS

AND BTW this is the absolute BEST IMPROVEMENT that could be ADDED to the NEXT patch.

[Kjempeost]

As an ithkul player I have to say that I never really cared about diplomacy and probably never will...

Its just words and actions will always mean more than words...

[Emrys]

Originally posted by teecee1960
This thread is jackproofable!:haha:

tc

Definitely asking for trouble, that. Though I don't see why anyone would want to threadjack a legitimate, constructive discussion. Oh yeah, for the hell of it... Stupid me... now where's MuaDib when you need him....;)

[adamfostas]

Woohoo! A sticky! Finally! Although I could raise questions about the pettiness of stickying this thread instead of the original, now that I've gotten what I wanted I don't care any more, so big up QSI and the mods!

Peace & Love,

AdamFostas

[BeerSnorkel]

The first patch will put this game close to where it should have
been ...???...back then :sour:.

Btw, as a devout glasser of ithkul worlds, diplomacy is not neccessary(when dealing with them). The other joe shmo bugs and such need some diplomacy thou:up:

Come on Patch 1, come on Patch 2, ....

Congrats to all that persisted in getting this stickied!!!!

[dadacp]

As some have suspected, I voted for "Who cares?" because the other empires declare war on me anyways for no good reason, so I just assume I'll be at war with everybody. (Not much of a problem with the current build). I only managed to stay in the senate one time--every other game total war was eventually declared against me. The one time was when my only buddy in the senate was the Ithkul--in my experience the only faithful senate partner! For me the best way to avoid war with everybody is to start away from the senate--then I'm only at war with those empires I'm in contact with.

-a frustrated player enjoying Master of Magic while waiting for the patch. (Download a "demo" here: http://www.downseek.com/download/10018.asp)

[Malcorian]

Everytime those darn meddling aliens complain, I wonder "what did I do?" :weird: :confused: :weird:

I always assume I'm being framed by somebody, since I "never" would do anything :D to upset my galactic neighbors.


still playing with an incorrect or "unclean" install.........

[White Haven]

Hey, peace is great if you can hack it. I like to do things in sequential order. One genocide at a time, makes things all nice and neat and easily controlled.

[Col. M Ackler]

hmm pie..

on another note:
Ikthul worlds are wotrth no more than exaduarated(sp) target drones in my minds eye.. i do so enjoy employing thousands of ships to obliterate a planet of ikthul scum.
(with my popmod this takes a very very very long time)

[arcite]

Wow colour me impressed, this thread got stickied..........what does mean? Perchance is there hope? :D

[Skymage]

202 for the grievance display

15 Who cares?

4 great as is


seems overwhelmingly for the display. Since it’s a graphical addition, It’ll probably have to wait for an expansion (if one comes out :( ).

SkyMage

[Breetai Tul]

Not really. The code patch includes at least one totally new screen ( victory graphs ), so it´s definitely possible to include it in the next patch.

Magnus

[Flinx]

:eek: :haha: What next patch?!!? :cry: :cry: :cry:

[arcite]

Originally posted by Breetai Tul
Not really. The code patch includes at least one totally new screen ( victory graphs ), so it´s definitely possible to include it in the next patch.

Magnus


I am more willing to bet that things like the new graph screen are not new features but rather features that were cut and are being put back in.

[clb]

I did not vote because I felt the choices were garbage.

Bluntly, ~ 80% of the time I get a threat I can figure out why. Another 10% I fairly sure, and the last 10% I'm just confused.

However, I want a grievance display because to get to that 80% I sometimes feel like a private investigator ---

go into the senate - have they introduced a bill - have I seconded a bill blah blah blah

go into the relations screen - who do they have good relations with - who are they at war with - who do I have agreements with blah blah blah

The poll gave me no choice like:

The current system is obscure and requires much paging between different screens to get a feel for why diplomacy works as it does - this is much like micromanagement of diplomacy. A grievance display would be more in the MoOIII macromangement mold, and would make the game less tedious and more fun.

My only choices were to call diplomacy completely senseless (which it is not) or to reject a grievance display (which I do not.)

grumble........

[Cras]

Originally posted by clb
I did not vote because I felt the choices were garbage.

Bluntly, ~ 80% of the time I get a threat I can figure out why. Another 10% I fairly sure, and the last 10% I'm just confused.

However, I want a grievance display because to get to that 80% I sometimes feel like a private investigator ---

go into the senate - have they introduced a bill - have I seconded a bill blah blah blah

go into the relations screen - who do they have good relations with - who are they at war with - who do I have agreements with blah blah blah

The poll gave me no choice like:

The current system is obscure and requires much paging between different screens to get a feel for why diplomacy works as it does - this is much like micromanagement of diplomacy. A grievance display would be more in the MoOIII macromangement mold, and would make the game less tedious and more fun.

My only choices were to call diplomacy completely senseless (which it is not) or to reject a grievance display (which I do not.)

grumble........

Start a new thread with a poll in it with questions/options you find to be adequate then. I will even edit my first post in here and put a link to it, so it doesnt die. :)

Yes the options are pretty silly and not a complete, serious examination of the shortcomings of the current diplomacy model. It was late night when the original post was made, and I had thought it would be unfair if I were to go back and change the options/questions after people had already voted. It was moreso created to draw attention to the original idea of a grievance display, and yes it does seem likely another patch will come. . . . . . .

In other news. . . . .
QSI seems intent on banning the GNN from the Orion sector, what is it they dont want you to know!

[Breetai Tul]

Originally posted by Flinx
:eek: :haha: What next patch?!!? :cry: :cry: :cry:

I can´t exactly point you to the right post, but I distinctly remember some QSI representative talking about a second patch ( "QSI representative" could well include a beta tester or Sencho, but I´m sure I saw it.) .

Magnus

[Rapunzel]

chantz say here :
http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=299172

I want to assure all of you that Atari and QSI are committed to improving and enhancing MOO3 beyond this patch; although we have not fixed *everything* with this patch, we have fixed many things (see the Patch thread for details) and will continue to do so as we move beyond code patch.

So they are planing to do more and will hopefully include this in the list of things they want to patch.

[Ron_Lugge]

Originally posted by clb
I did not vote because I felt the choices were garbage.

Bluntly, ~ 80% of the time I get a threat I can figure out why. Another 10% I fairly sure, and the last 10% I'm just confused.

However, I want a grievance display because to get to that 80% I sometimes feel like a private investigator ---

go into the senate - have they introduced a bill - have I seconded a bill blah blah blah

go into the relations screen - who do they have good relations with - who are they at war with - who do I have agreements with blah blah blah

The poll gave me no choice like:

The current system is obscure and requires much paging between different screens to get a feel for why diplomacy works as it does - this is much like micromanagement of diplomacy. A grievance display would be more in the MoOIII macromangement mold, and would make the game less tedious and more fun.

My only choices were to call diplomacy completely senseless (which it is not) or to reject a grievance display (which I do not.)

grumble........

LOL

Same here... Thought my percentage of understanding is a lot closer to 95% with maybe taking up 4 and no clue having 1.

Also, *I* though that the middle option was the "I play ithkul, so all I'd see for it is:

#1 Ithkul
#2 Ithkul
#3 Ithkul

[Cras]

Havent checked this thread in a while, 280 votes total!
But still no response from QSI on possibly implementing this feature or something similar.

I have heard QSI mention that diplomacy does not give sufficient feedback, however have not heard their possible solutions.

[Nolondil]

I completely agree and I also suggest that we also need to be able to specify our grievances better. We need to be able to 'demand' that the AI do or stop doing specific things. Like move its forces. All we seem to have is the generic 'threat' option.

Oh, and we need to be able to demand or offer money -- I am baffled that I haven't seen the option to offer money nor have I gotten any demands for it. Not even the old standard 'tribute treaty' that was so popular in MOO 2.

[Ron_Lugge]

Originally posted by Nolondil
Oh, and we need to be able to demand or offer money -- I am baffled that I haven't seen the option to offer money nor have I gotten any demands for it. Not even the old standard 'tribute treaty' that was so popular in MOO 2.

A) Its intended to make money a part of the diplo process; was meant for this patch, will be next.

B) Tribute treaties do exist - try a surrender. 5% and 10% for conditional and unconditional, respectivly.

[Lord Aramus]

The heck with money. Its not like you can actually Buy things like in moo2, I much prefer demanding planets. (heck when you back it up with a big enough task force they actually give them to you):D

[Strifeguard]

Originally posted by Lord Aramus
The heck with money. Its not like you can actually Buy things like in moo2, I much prefer demanding planets. (heck when you back it up with a big enough task force they actually give them to you)

Dump all of the cash they're paying you into "military grants". You'll end up "buying" loads of starships each turn. You can more-or-less have whatever planets you want then. ;)

[Lord Aramus]

But then I'd have to take that money away from research:D

[Sheroth_i]

I voted in favor of the feedback, if for only one reason: I would like to see exactly what hoarkes-off a race you have a full alliance with? I mean, is it the glassing of Ithkul planets that displeases them? The rapid conquest of other empires? Or is it the massive fleet parked at one of their border star systems to protect their butt from one race they're at war with while they are busy traipsing halfway across the galaxy to fight someone else?

[Cras]

This thread is dead.

With 300! votes indicating people are unhappy with the level of feedback they receive.

Another portion of the "who cares" votes it should be noted is because many people have simply chosen to ignore or not use diplomacy in their games at all as a result of lack of depth.

There really couldve been alot more depth or even usefulness to the diplomatic engine in this game. It seems entirely unlikely it will ever be fixed, without one response from QSI on the ideas suggested here or on fixing the lack feedback given to players.

[starliner]

I think I'm beginning to lose it: at some point I have started to think that I really know why the aliens act like they do! Weird... Perhaps I should just exterminate them before I start hallucinating more ;)

Kind Regards,
Starliner

[Cryptos]

There has to be something wrong somewhere here. My reasoning for this is:

I always constantly have at least one race declaring a constant war with me, even if i'm always making treaties, paying tributes, and never using my spies or going near their star systems.

I got really annoyed, so i decided to test something out. I used a cheat system, which allowed me to have incredible diplomatic skills and incredible spies (For diplomatic defence).

It resulted in every race absolutly loving me, except ONE race yet again. This one race was merely only just 'content' with me, and not loving me like the rest. Why is there always a problem with 'one' race in every game i try?

I tested this in 5 games. The result was always the same. There is always at least one race who is never very happy with me in comparison to the rest, even if i'm doing everything right.

I've found i get better reactions with some actions than i do with others as well. Some races reacted better if i argued my cases, rather than reasons, and others reacted better when i reasoned rather than act aggressively. I've been making careful records to make sure i choose the best action to keep the stats high with each race, but even though i was doing the best action for each particular race, there was always at least one race who still isn't happy with me.

I've applied the most updated patch, and yet the problem yet remains. (As does that horrible DirectX Error screen that occurs practically all the time, when specific planets are generated.).

Edit:
I know it wasn't due to spies, because i was even catching Orion spies at the time.

[Lennier]

Have you checked out Making Diplomacy Make Sense: Fish Friends, Lizard Lovers, and Humanoid Haters (http://www.ina-community.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=331031)? Many strangenesses in diplomacy are explained there.

[Montgomery]

I find it really weird. I have received messages from other races threatening me and telling me to stop what I am doing. As far as I can tell, I am not doing anything! No spying, no military build-up. I have had a full allience with that race and had really good relations. Suddenly, it all turns sour and I am at war. Why? Not a clue.:D

[Lennier]

You were probably either enemies of their friends, or friends of their enemies.

Consider this: You are allied with Empire A. You hate Empire B. Empire A has a full alliance with Empire B. Empire B declares war on you. Empire B asks Empire A do declare war on you. Now Empire A declares war on you. If you hadn't checked out the relationship between Empires A & B, it might look to you like your friend Empire A declared war on you for no reason.

Being friends of their enemies tends to work a little slower. You have a defensive alliance with Empire A, and a NAP + trade treaties with Empire B. Empires A & B are at war. Your CB with Empire A may start going down hill as Empire A thinks “why are these guys trading with my enemy and letting my enemy’s ships through their territory.” Eventually, Empire A might get sick of it and break your treaties. And Empire B will likely do the same thing for the same reasons.

In MOO3, you cannot remain friends with everyone. Unless you're going for a Senate win, pick your friends early and make sure they don't become friends with your enemies. (You can probably keep all your contradictory alliances from blowing up in your face for long enough for someone to take the Senate Presidency away from the Antarans, if you’re really careful.)

[Montgomery]

Thanks Lennier. But, the same thing also happened in my current game and I only had reations with the Ikulamlikhl (or something like that) Harvister race and the Mevuvarnemi who were my allies. The Harvesters were at war with everyone that they had relations with. Although me and the Mevs were both at war with the Harvisters the Mervs declared war on me. A great mistake as I trashed them.:D But why attack me?

[Lennier]

Not knowing the other details of the game I cannot say for sure. A couple of possibilities:

If your empire gets "too big," (somewhere between 1/2-2/3rds the galaxy), the other empires will all declare war on you. Although it sounds like

Another possibility (a reomote one) is that the Harvesters go a diplomatic spy in either your or the Mevs empire, and the diplo spy put the kabosh on your relations. (I'm not really sure that this spy mission works.)

You could have hit the wrong button on the diplo screen. Lord knows that there are enough people aroud here who have built colony orbitals.

[Montgomery]

Thanks again. I'll just have to watch a bit closer in future and see if I can work things out.

[Chris1961]

you have excellent idea !! problem is atari wont listen peace out and good gaming

[pedxing]

since it's been nearly 2.5 years since the original post, and nothing's happened, you're probably right... :haha:

also, we've learned that the "threat" messages come from passing thresholds in relations, so if you dip momentarily below the threshold, you'll get a message with generic text telling you to "stop what you are doing!" :rolleyes:

meanwhile i'm sure the aliens are thinking:

"hey, don't pretend like you don't know what i'm talking about!"
and
"if you really loved me, i wouldn't have to tell you what's wrong..."

;)

[Nightwatch]

Dear God. You have just made diplomacy make sense.

The whole galaxy is filled with a mixture of wives and girlfriends!

MUST EXTERMINATE NOW!!!

[Lennier]

pedxing helps us make sense of diplomacy once again!