Six Flags Great America.

[raptor4928]

Well while some people of our RCT2 community decided to go to CP this weekend, I for a change decided to try something new. This weekend, me and my rromate went to Chicago for the weekend, and decided to go to Six Flags Great America for the weekend. Boy did I learn a lesson: CP may have the most rollercoasters, but they don't necessarily have the best.

SFGA had 4 notable exceptions to this. First-off, Batman: The Ride was an inverted I enjoyed alot more than Raptor. Batman seems to be a lot more intense than Raptor. Batman is fast, compact and thrilling. Batman never let up and never gave you time to catch your breath. It is a fast intense B&M invert that now claims second in my favorite B&M invert list, only to Montu which is first.

Secondly, Iron Wolf now takes the top of my favorite stand-up coaster. I previously thought Mantis was awesome, but after riding iron Wolf, that changed as well. Iron Wolf had the same phenomenon going that Batman had. It is fast, compact and intense. It is truly a great ride.

Everybody at SFGA was bragging up Raging Bull. Well my opinions of that ride weren't very high. I grant that Raging Bull is 'fun', but that is all it is. It really isn't intense in my eyes. So my favorite Hyper coaster in the 200 ft mark is still Magnum--ther is just something about that ride.

Finally let's talk about Superman: Ultimate Flight. This ride has the potential of being a great B&M design. Why isn't it? Way to short. I grant you this, the Pretzel Loop element in S:UF is one of the most intense elements I've ever encountered, but after that the ride is just three overbanked turns, that's it. Thoe only other intense thing after the pretzel loop is initial rotation that the seats undergo for flight mode.

Sf:GA is an OK park... the food is overpriced (but what park isn't), the park-ops are rude and the park seems to be dirty, at least on Sunday. I had fun, but would have hated that park had I gone on a day I would have had to wait for anything.

But to get a discussion going, what are your thoughts on this park and what is going on with Deja' Vu?

[ragingbegal]

Yeah, we have a nice little park. ;)

But i disagree with your assement of the ride ops. They are the fastest ops at any park I've ever been to [much faster then CP's] and I don't see them as rude, just not exceptionally nice. They work their arses off though and it shows with the speed of the loading times.

And as far as Delayja-vu goes- current rumor is that they are completely fixing them so that they will run smoothly with no breakdowns and faster loading times. The ride liekly won't reopen for a while, but it will be worth it seeing as how its great when it does run.

[raptor4928]

Well I give you that on the efficiency on the ride-ops, but here is my little story about the rudeness of the ride-ops.... but hey, perhaps this is just a Chicago thing.. (J/K) We were both waiting in line for Superman, and the ride was running smoothly.

Then we got up[ to the station. We had picked a line where we had thought we had about two trains to go before we would get on. Train 1 went through... 1 person on out row got on that row. No biggie, we didn't catch it. Second train came back, 1 person got in. So we motioned for the ride-op that hey, we were a group of two, that we could get in. He gave us a smart-alleck laugh and said, sorry, the gate was already closed that they could not reopen the gates. I knew this wasn't true and that this was a line he was feeding us. First, the restraints of all the people were not even closed, so it would have been nothing to reopen the gate. Secondly, they did this earlier that day on Raging Bull and they were more than glad to do this. I could completely understand if they had the restraints secured and the trained already revolved.... I felt that was rude.

[xman]

SFGA had 4 notable exceptions to this. First-off, Batman: The Ride was an inverted I enjoyed alot more than Raptor. Batman seems to be a lot more intense than Raptor. Batman is fast, compact and thrilling. Batman never let up and never gave you time to catch your breath. It is a fast intense B&M invert that now claims second in my favorite B&M invert list, only to Montu which is first.

Hey that is why they have made a few of them. If a ride is good why not have it in more than one park. I too rode Batman yesterday, the only complaint I really have rith it is that it is very short, intense but short.



Now for the ride Ops. that is total B.S. they should have opened the gates and let you on. I think that as a Ride Op. they need to make the line move as fast as possible. I would rather wait 30 seconds to let someone hop on than 2 minutes because they let empty seats go on the train. I saw this yesterday on X. I watched as 2 or 3 trains left with single rides in 2 different seats. Put them together and let 2 more people get on. I don't think it is that hard. Why can't they have a single rider line? Then they can make sure that all the trains are full.

[tedsticle]

Since this park is the closest park to me (southern Wisconsin), its usaully the only place i get to go to ride rollercoasters during the summer. Still ****ed about losing shockwave for superman. And all i keep hearing is bad things about superman...Blahh!!!!!!!! Anyways i was fortunate to get to cedar point last year and experience that park. In all honesty i thought great americas coasters were way better than the ones at cedar. Batman against Raptor; Raptor is the first and only coaster i ever got off feeling nausea, but thats not the reason i disliked it so much. It was just comparing it to Batman. Viper and Mean Streak; All i can say here is viper is smooth and fun, mean streak is to rough and painful. Me and my sister couldnt wait for the ride to end. Vertical Velocity and Wicked Twister; I really enjoyed Wicked Twister, but Vertical Velocity adds such an excitement to it since they stop and hold u at the other end of the twist. Nothing at great america could compare to millenium force or dragster, as millenium force is now my favorite coaster. I know a lot of people love the million year old woodie "Screaming Eagle" but i'd love to see that torn down and be replaced with a millenium force record breaker type coaster.

[IronWolf98]

Originally posted by raptor4928
Well I give you that on the efficiency on the ride-ops, but here is my little story about the rudeness of the ride-ops....

Then we got up[ to the station. We had picked a line where we had thought we had about two trains to go before we would get on. Train 1 went through... 1 person on out row got on that row. No biggie, we didn't catch it. Second train came back, 1 person got in. So we motioned for the ride-op that hey, we were a group of two, that we could get in. He gave us a smart-alleck laugh and said, sorry, the gate was already closed that they could not reopen the gates. I knew this wasn't true and that this was a line he was feeding us. First, the restraints of all the people were not even closed, so it would have been nothing to reopen the gate. Secondly, they did this earlier that day on Raging Bull and they were more than glad to do this. I could completely understand if they had the restraints secured and the trained already revolved.... I felt that was rude.

Well, having not worked there in a few years, I will try to explain. It is generally prefeered that air gates are not re-opened once they are closed. Capacity is the big issue. Also, the attendant you spoke with may not have had the ability to open them, and to communicate to have the gates opened most likely would hurt capacity. This is a very short ride, and even if the ride wasn't locked, you still would have caused a delay. As far as rudeness goes, that in itself was not rude. Maybe his attitude could have been better, but for the most part you are not entitled to immediate access to the ride, even if their are seats available.

[Sillydude]

I, am 12, and SF:GA is like a kid in a candy store to me...It's like an orphan sitting down to a grand feast, It is one of my favorite place's to go. My ride reviews consist of, (in order my fav, and the review)

Batman -- The Ride. It may be the quickest ride in the park, yet what makes this ride fun is, after have been on it 10 times, everytime I come back, I just can't picture whats going to happen, and sometimes I go, "was that there last time?" My favorite element is, the twist, and the breaks at the end. I love the breaks, because they are so sudden.

Iron Wolf. This ride, is awesome! Infact, if it didn't give such a jerky ride, it'd be my favorite. I haven't been on any other Stand-Ups so I can't compare, or contrast...But Iron Wolf...Woof! It's something else! This ride barely ever goes straight, until the end so your constantly moving right, left, up, and down!

Deja Vu. This ride is great...Yet, It's a TO hard to tell what your doing. It's gotta be the SCARIEST ride, because your restraint doesn't quite hold you in the most secure, as all the other ones do. It kind of feels good having a little leighway, and makes the ride more exciting.

Vertical Velocity. Everyone makes it out to be "Oh it's so boring" or "Oh it's SO scary!" It's really neither. This ride is just fun! I mean, your feet dangle, you go straight down on a drop, it's quick, the line usaully isn't SO long, if you get front row you twist high...Ack, it's not that bad of a ride!

^ and v , they both are the same rating

Superman: Ultimate Flight. This ride isn't the greatest, because you never go upsidedown. (you may think you are, and it might say you are, but you aren't) Like Raptor said, the only real stunner is the Pretzel Loop, which is the most exciting element a ride can possibly have, yet the ending....The only fun thing about it is that your flying like superman...

The Raging Bull. Without the big drop, this ride would be NOTHING at all! This ride is only scary if your afraid of heights...And they made the seats almost TO comfortable, so you mine as well just take a nap in the car...Infact, in the Raging Bull Picture Booth, I once saw some guy napping. It's way overrated than it should be. Best if you get front seat.

The Demon. Go on it, if you want the restraints, and your head to get into a sissy fight. People thought SHOCKWAVE was bad...GO ON The Demon FREAKS! Thats like 50x worse! (by the way, we need shockwave now a days, it was a pretty good ride!) Yet, it's thrilling as it gives 4 inversions.

American Eagle. Ew. First of all, the rides put together by gum and spit...It gives you a rickety sound the whole dang ride, and it always makes you feel like your coming off the track. It's only fun if you get the back train, and even then....Yucko!

The Viper. Ew again, This ride's worse than the eagle. It's quick, and has a low high speed. It's new, but even the scenary sucks...Every ride is worth going on, and this one probably is, but it's just not my tippity top fav...

The Whizzer. It's not my job to rate this, I mean, it's a GREAT kiddie ride, that delivers some thrills to kids, but if I were to go on it...It'd be a totally different story by a long shot.

[IEATPASTE001]

Hey silly dude if they took the first hill off of all coasters they would go nowhere lol unless it is a launched coaster.

something funny i found on the site about Superman Ultimate Flight.


This unique flying adventure is designed by Bolliger & Mabillard (B & M), ride manufacturer of the world's first hyper twister roller coaster -Raging Bull and the world's first suspended looping coaster - Batman The Ride.



If it is a clone how unique can it be? lol just thought it was funny.

[raptor4928]

It is very unique in which the way it rotates you into flying mode, IEatPAste. I enjoyed THAT part almost as much as I njoyed the ride itself. But I am tired, and this did make snese when I wrote it-it probably wont make sense when I reread it this afternoon. Have mercy on me.

[IEATPASTE001]

No it says unique meaning special. it is a clone, meaning not that special, copy, can be found elsewhere, it was more of a play on words. it is kinda like calling a Vekoma Boomerang a unique ride cause it is the only one in a state, but we all know there has to be atleast 2 per state. :D

[ragingbegal]

Originally posted by Sillydude
The Whizzer. It's not my job to rate this, I mean, it's a GREAT kiddie ride, that delivers some thrills to kids, but if I were to go on it...It'd be a totally different story by a long shot.
Find yourself a girlfriend and go on this ride. I promise you will never view it as a "kiddie" ride again- because its not, even without someone else. Its a great coaster that appeals to a very wide demographic.

[Harpo]

I must say, I found the Whizzer to be quite enjoyable. It's not the biggest thrill in the park, but it's a unique coaster, and that alone makes it worthwhile!

[raptor4928]

Originally posted by ragingbegal
Find yourself a girlfriend and go on this ride. I promise you will never view it as a "kiddie" ride again- because its not, even without someone else. Its a great coaster that appeals to a very wide demographic.


Ah, but now we go on how specific a word is when we use the word unique? So I must ask, isn't unique a relative term? Here is what I mean. Granted, if you follow the world of rollercoasters, Superman : Ultimate Flight is indeed a clone. No big news there right? But one could argue that the design is unique to the midwest, or to the Chicagoland area, or perhaps to Gurneee itself. In those aspects, S:UF is a unique coaster. :D

[IEATPASTE001]

SSSSSSSPP! Raptor you quoted the wrong person. hehe


I just thought it was funny, and i guess i watch Jay Leno too much, he has the Headlines bit and they are really funny. that and i like play on words jokes, that was right up there.

[Harpo]

What constitutes unique? Simple. Whizzer is the only one remaining of its genre. To quote from the ACE Guide To Ride:

"Whizzer stands as the lone remaining custom spiral-lift speedracer coaster from Schwarzkopf. The genre of coaster was the final stage in the Jet series and is known for spiral lift hills, sloped drops, and banked turns. This vintage in-line seating coaster once had a twin at the California Great America park. (Two others built earlier were the Big Bend at Six Flags Over Texas in 1971 and the Zambezi Zinger at Worlds of Fun in 1973, both of which have been removed.)"

Now, if every copy of Superman is removed except one, the remaining one is unique. But, while multiple copies remain, they fail to be unique.

Leap The Dips at Lakemont Park in Altoona, PA is an excellent example. In the early 1900's, there were quite a few figure-8 side-friction coasters built. Leap The Dips is the only one that remains in North America. It's a mild ride, but it is quite different from anything else that you can currently ride on this continent (and perhaps the world, but I'm not sure about that). Additionally, it is the oldest operating coaster in the world. Therefore, while it may have been common in its day, it is now unique.

The key prefix, of course, is "uni," meaning one.

[raptor4928]

Ok, perhaps... but let's assume that I am the average Joe Scmoo that goes to Six Flags Great America once a summer, and only there... are you implying that S:UF is not a unique type of rollercoaster to me?

[pnkfloyd12]

I would think so. If you're Joe Schmoo and you only visit one park, then just because one particular ride is the only one of it's kind in that park, doesn't make it unique. But that's just my opinion.

[raptor4928]

Ok... then you all refuse to see my point then... LOL... I do not disagree with your definition of unique, all I am saying is that due to 'one's' frame of reference, what one person would think is unique is different as opposed to what person B considers unique. So either I am not making a clear point, or B) you all do what my best friend admits to do, and that is to keep arguing a point just to argue a point :D .

[raptor4928]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Harpo
[B]What constitutes unique? Simple. Whizzer is the only one remaining of its genre. To quote from the ACE Guide To Ride:

"Whizzer stands as the lone remaining custom spiral-lift speedracer coaster from Schwarzkopf. The genre of coaster was the final stage in the Jet series and is known for spiral lift hills, sloped drops, and banked turns. This vintage in-line seating coaster once had a twin at the California Great America park. (Two others built earlier were the Big Bend at Six Flags Over Texas in 1971 and the Zambezi Zinger at Worlds of Fun in 1973, both of which have been removed.)"

But the question is Harpo, was Whizzer's layout unique when it opened? Was that type of rollercoaster unique when it opened? Just because one rollercoaster of a particular type remains, does not mean it is unique, it means it is an endangered species. It means that Whizzer has won the rollercoaster survivor, and has not been kicked out of the park. Thae Amercian Collegiate dicitonary also defines unique as- Being without an equal or equivalent. Thus reinforcing my previous stated fact that Joe Schmoo who never gets out of Illinois and to no other park, thinks that S:UF is indeed a unique rollercoaster, hence unique is a relative term.

P.S. Harpo, unique... is drvien from the latin term unus, which means 'one'. :D

[Harpo]

Originally posted by raptor4928
[Thae Amercian Collegiate dicitonary also defines unique as- Being without an equal or equivalent. Thus reinforcing my previous stated fact that Joe Schmoo who never gets out of Illinois and to no other park, thinks that S:UF is indeed a unique rollercoaster, hence unique is a relative term.


Ah, marvelous! You just confirmed my point! There is not currently an equivalent or equal to Whizzer, hence it meets the American Collegiate Dictionary's definition! The definition did not say "without ever having had an equal or equivalent." On the other hand, there's an identical copy of S:UF currently in existence, hence it has an equal, hence, according to the American Collegiate Dictionary, it is not unique!

Now, if the statement had said, "Unique to this park," or, "Unique to this state," then you'd be correct. But, Six Flags promoted it simply as unique, and that's not true.

If we were to use your situation of a person who only visits that park, then every ride in the park would be unique to that individual, since they don't have any duplicates within the park. Such a definition would then fit most rides in most parks around the world. (I have yet to see a park that has two rides that are absolutely identical, but I suppose it could happen, hence I'm specifying "most parks" rather than "all parks.") Under the circumstances, specifying that the ride is unique is completely meaningless in describing the ride, hence the adjective could be omitted from the description. Of course, if we went with this type of scope, then I could claim that my Mustang is unique -- after all, it's the only one in my garage. I suppose I could also call my home unique -- it's the only quad-level on my lot (although it's one of 3 on the street). However, such claims are completely worthless, due to the restrictiveness of the scope.

If the intent is to indicate that the ride is unique to a particular region, then the region must be specified in conjuntion with the claim of uniqueness in order to provide a worthwhile frame of reference. Otherwise, one of two assumptions must be made: either the uniqueness in question refers to the item being the only one of its type anywhere in the known universe, or the statement is meaningless since the boundaries change at the will of the person making the claim.

Bottom line, S:UF can only be described as unique if tight boundaries are placed upon the scope of uniqueness. Of course, being in the Chicago area, that scope is hard to fathom -- many folks in the north have a tendency to travel south for part of the winter. Anyone driving from Chicago to Florida is quite likely to pass through Atlanta, which happens to be the location of an identical coaster. The definition for uniqueness does not take into account when one is wearing a blindfold and is either unable or unwilling to see or acknowledge the duplicate.

[raptor4928]

Ahhh yes, but to point the obvious out, if Six Flags were to point out every rollercoaster indeed was a clone in every other park in the Six Flag chain, then hence that would take away the spectacle of the "Uniqueness". But then on the hand, is Whizzer really THAT unique? Sure you sit single file in a car.... sure the lift hill is spiral shaped... but what REALLY is so unique about it? The mechanics of gravity still work.... potential energy, kinetic energy.... So then what makes it so unique? Is it just those special elements of this ride? Then on that note, could you not argue most if not all rollercoasters are unique? Just by small anomolies (sp?) within? Perhaps a slightly larger or longer lift hill. Perhaps a slightly steeper or a slightly longer descent.... maybe a higher loop. I concede that they uniqueness aspect of Six Flags S:UF has lust its luster with you due to the fact two other parks have a clone. It was a very unique ride to me for the mere fact there is nothing else like that within a 10 hour trip of me. But to end this-you have your definition, scratch that, you have your list of rides/coasters you would call unique... perhaps mine isnt as great as I haven't as many coasters/rodes under my belt.

BTW Harpo, how was MIA this weekend? Which coaster topped 100?

[RCT2fan08]

Having visiting Great America yesterday and walking past The Wizzer, I realized that I havent rode it in probably 15 years.!! Not trying to knock it, but most people are more interested in riding the newer rides like Raging Bull, V2 & superman. Having finially being able to ride Superman, just before the park closed because of numerous breakdowns, i can say that it is a very awsome and smooth ride. But for now it can only be my #2 ride, behind Raging Bull, because of the lack of theming. I was looking foward to seeing something along the lines of the theming of Batman, where it looks like you are actually in the underbelly of Gotham City. But an awsome ride never the less.

[Harpo]

Originally posted by raptor4928
The mechanics of gravity still work.... potential energy, kinetic energy.... So then what makes it so unique? Is it just those special elements of this ride? Then on that note, could you not argue most if not all rollercoasters are unique?

BTW Harpo, how was MIA this weekend? Which coaster topped 100?

Ah, but if we went with that argument, would ANY coasters be unique? Every coaster has a combination of potential and kinetic energy. Under that consideration, would merely having a different car make it unique? Is I-94 a different freeway if you're driving in a Volkswagen Beetle versus a Mini Cooper?

And, actually, I would argue that most coasters are unique, with the exceptions of clones. If the track layout is identical to another coaster (with a reasonable margin of error), with the same type of trains, yielding the same ride experience, then it fails to be unique. Again, it may be unique for a region, but if Six Flags is claiming the ride to be unique, and they do not specify the region, then they are providing misleading advertising if the ride is, in fact, a copy of another ride currently in existence.

Having said all that, I will say that the B&M version of the flying coaster is far more enjoyable, and, in my opinion, safer than the Vekoma version. Based on the harnesses on the Vekoma version (which I've experienced at 2 different parks), I believe it's just a matter of time before someone falls out of those trains. I VERY DEFINITELY hope I'm wrong -- I don't want to see that happen. But, I cannot help but feel that they were inadequately designed. Also, I don't think the Vekoma designers really considered the feeling of flight when they came up with the track layout -- I believe they were still envisioning a conventional coaster. B&M did a much better layout, taking the flight concept into account.

Oh, and to answer your last question...

#98 = Corkscrew
#99 = Mad Mouse
#100 = Shivering Timbers (or, for certain reporters who fail to check their facts, Shiver Me Timbers)
#101 = Wolverine Wildcat
#102 = Zack's Zoomer
#103 = Big Dipper

The list is expected to grow again during the July 4th weekend, when I'm hoping to get on at least 12 more coasters that I haven't done in 2003 (plus some repeats on Cedar Point coasters). With luck, I'll even manage to add 6 more coasters to my 2000 And Beyond list. (That current count is at 392 -- I'm hoping to top 400 before the year is out! I believe I should be able to do it, but it will require a bit of luck! Lifetime, I've easily passed 400, but I didn't start keeping track until 2000. Pun only mildly intended.)

[raptor4928]

LOL... We are arguing semantics now, and I was bored that day....LOL :D But on the note about this weekend's coaster tour, it sounds like you will be doing quite a bit of traveling. LOL I hope you have a good time. And I hope (and expect) that you will get at least one trip on TTD this weekend. I was at CP on Sunday, and there were so many people working on TTD it wasnt even funny. Though, I would love to know how the oil was contaminated... was there metal debris in the oil (which can be fatal in hydraulics); was there cavatation (air in the oil), wrong type of oil, chemical contamination? I am just thoroughly curious about what brought down Dragster, but I suppose I'll never know, and I suppose this is off topic. Back to Physics and calc... talk to you later, and have a safe trip.

[Harpo]

Through a somewhat reliable source, I've heard that they had issues with metal in the hydraulic fluid. As you mentioned, that's not a good thing. My source is a coworker who has a friend in C.P.'s ride maintenance group, so his source should have a good handle on what's happening. However, my coworker has a bit of a tendency to skew what he hears (although I'm certain it isn't intentional), so I have to question the accuracy of his claim. I'm sure metal in the hydraulic fluid was mentioned in his conversation with his friend. I don't know the exact context in which it was mentioned, however.

[raptor4928]

Well if it really was metal in the fluid, then TTd might actually be down for the whole season. When I used to work on hydraulic power units, metal in the system was either a sifn of A) bad machining, or B) not cleaning the part(s) correctly after they were machined. Perhaps this explains the need for a new valve; the cable snapping was just a SNAFU. But depending on the amount of damage in the system, and how far the metal went, this could be really bad. But on the other hand, if they project a Friday opening date... who knows.

[Harpo]

The cable snap, as I understand it, was unrelated to the current hydraulic issues. The explanation I heard was that there was an undetected weakness in the cable, hence causing the snap. The claim is that such weaknesses are rare, but they do occur and are often undetectable with non-destructive testing techniques.

[Sillydude]

Thee most ANNOYING thing about Superman is that EVERY ride that starts, someone always opens there big mouth and screams when they get put in the flying position. This basically tells you that this someone will be screaming the whole ride, if she/he can't keep there friggen mouth shut during the turn-over. So right than and there, you've set your ride up to be an annoying one.

[raptorrvnge4928]

LOL... but the irony is, the turnover is the second most thrilling aspect of S:UF, only being outdone by the pretzel loop.