Need advise: emotionally blackmailed by my mother

[AR81]

My mom lives in a house that is owned by my dad.
She has psychyatric problems but she is smart enough to have caused legal trouble to my father and she is very skilled in emotional blackmail.

I am helping a friend in need so my budget is a bit tight.

She wants to make the house be owned by her.
She had some advise from an aunt who is a political relative. She is a snake and I would say that aunt was responsible for the divorce of my parents. That aunt is a snake.

My mom is blackmailing me. She asks me to give her the money I am giving to my friend for she says she is a leech and she brings everything from the past to demonstrate how much I owe her.

I've been under such pressure since a couple weeks ago. I am very stressed and I am at the border of depression right now, having heavy insomnia and so on.

Any advise, any help would be appreciated.
I hate to say that but I hate my mom when she does it.
I feel my mom is quite materialistic and jealous of my friend.

[Invisible]

At one point in your life, I think you have to accept the fact your are not responsible for your parents. That's just my point of view. I know if my father asked me for anything, I'd tell him to go to hell. He once started yelling in a restaurant because there was no one there to serve us in French (in bilingual Moncton).

As for my mother, I might have more difficulty being harsh on her, but you have your own life. That's it. You are your own responsibility. I think it's generous of you to give money to your friend but you're not obligated to do it. But I suppose in your country the Welfare system is different. In Canada, you can finish your Adult High School Diplima while on social assistance and they pay for your studies. Also, Canadians don't have hate for people on social assistance.

[ductonius]

The simple solution is to not give her any of the money no matter what she says. If you dont feel up to resisting her up front, find a way to force yourself not to help her.

An easy way to do this is give your friend post-dated cheques or some such. Then, you really cant give her the money becuae if you do, you'll bounce a cheque and take a hit in the credit rating.

Other methods include investing the money in stock, or taking out a term deposit at the bank to tie up your money.

The ultimate solution is to never speak to her agian.


Originally posted by Invisible
Also, Canadians don't have hate for people on social assistance.

No, we (Canadians) just hate those who are determined, smart and fast enough to be wealthy.

[Dreadnaught]

Your mom accuses this girl of leeching off you because of the past, when in fact your mother wants to leech off you simply because of your past with her as your mother. If this is just one more of her ways to get something out of you (and it sounds like it is), you have to draw the line at some point otherwise she'll be running over you forever.

I say that if she's the one who is causing the problem that makes her want to own the house, let her be the one to solve it without trying to sucker you in the process.

[Chronus]

Originally posted by AR81

My mom is blackmailing me. She asks me to give her the money I am giving to my friend for she says she is a leech and she brings everything from the past to demonstrate how much I owe her.
...

Any advise, any help would be appreciated.
I hate to say that but I hate my mom when she does it.
I feel my mom is quite materialistic and jealous of my friend.

Mother - this word is or should be sacred to all of us. It is to me, it probably is to you too, Alpha.

That said...Mothers aren't perfect beings (no one is), and mothers do exert at times some type of cohertion on us, and normally on the basis of everything mothers have done for us during all our lives.

And indeed, most moms have indeed sacrificed a lot for us.

But...to honor that very same sacrifice, we must do to our lives positive things. We must grow up and prove ourselves worthy of the love of God and our mothers' love.

We should not bent ourselves to the will of our mothers when it contradicts everything we believe in or when it's bad for them (mothers) and us. We can humour moms at times, we should never be insensitive to their problems, but there's always a line we should never cross.

If that aunt of yours is behind all this (and you have to be sure of this), then you have one more reason not to subject yourself to your mother's blackmail.

On the other hand...a mother is a mother, and if your mother does need help, independently of the influence of that aunt, then help her the way you can. Maybe dividing that help your giving that friend of yours with your mother's...?

In such cases, calling people to reason is difficult, hardly works and may create even more problems. So, the best answer would be to face as best as you can muster those that are causing you troubles - that aunt and your mother. Don't create problems, just explain yourself, don't expect reason to shine opposite to you.

It's a tough matter.

Have faith. In God or in you. But keep calm, reason as coldly as you can, and act on it.

I hope this is a good advice, but...as serious as this issue is to you, it's always difficult to assist people in such predicaments.

Good luck.

Chronus

[Gentry]

I think you're asking for some sort of way to avoid saying 'no'.
I've got some bad news, AR81.
Saying, 'no,' is the only way that you're going to get her off your case. Just tell her, "What you did, you did because you chose to have children."
You don't owe the woman a thing. And if you cave into this now, she'll have power over you for the rest of her life. Do you want that?
I'm not saying any of this is easy; quite contrary. However, you must do the right thing.

[{TDC}FR33K]

Good advice from Chronus and Gentry.

"Do not throw your pearls before swine."

Not callin yer mom (or anyone a pig). Simply put, a pig would trample the pearls underfoot (in a wasteful manner) and not benefit from your act of kindness.

In the case of your mother; she is family and family must be heard first and must be made aware of this respect.
However, you must deal with her as an adult dealing with another adult. If she won't benefit from this 'help', then it would be wrong to 'help' her in this way. Find another means to honor her in a way that IS helpful, whether it is giving her some of your time to just listen, assist around the house, get her some therapy, or whatever. That would be the proper behavior for a good son (or daughter). And if she doesn't change and you've done your best, you will not be faulted for your actions.

Like Gentry said. It may not be easy (and rarely, if ever, is). But nothing worth attaining, saving, or keeping in this world is ever easy.

Peace.

[serapis]

I agree with gentry....i dont think that sounds right :confused:

[Steve_Shapiro]

Hmmm seems no one remembers the one thing that is detailed in his post. His mother has psychiatric issues.

Dude, If I were you I would just say no. Simple as that. Your aunt is "stirring the mud" and on top of that your mother doesn't even have the right chemical balances in her head to think clearly.

[Lewkowski]

Screw her don't give her a dime.

[warderbonded]

I am beginning to understand you better and better AR81. (better sounds bad to me, but I am leaving it because I have reached the time of day when thinking hard on any level/subject is impossible)

Not all 'Mothers' are worth respecting.

I am surprised you have such a fondness for women considering the type of women you encounter.

Tell her no, and don't lose sleep over it. You do not owe her a thing ... you do not owe her sleepless nights and depression. Some Mom's just suck.

People who love you would hate to cause you such suffering ... and when it comes to feeling those things because of something your mother does ... it is possibly the worst sort of bad feeling.

I sympathize and again encourage you to walk away ... as far and fast as you can.

[{TDC}FR33K]

Originally posted by Steve_Shapiro
Hmmm seems no one remembers the one thing that is detailed in his post. His mother has psychiatric issues...


:bulb:

Originally posted by {TDC}FR33K
...Find another means to honor her in a way that IS helpful, whether it is giving her some of your time to just listen, assist around the house, get her some therapy, or whatever...

[AR81]

I guess this will be a test about saying "NO" to her.
Investing money isn't an option. The money is currently being used to help my friend.

I don't have checks. I have a savings account not a checking account.

I was digging things up. My dad got married again. Apparently my mom doesn't want his wife to get that house if he dies and she might want to make us the owners of the house.

So it looks like her intentions are legitimate.

However what I believe is that end doesn't justify the means. I can't stop helping my friend right now. I might do it in september if everything goes fine. It is not my duty to help my friend, I am just doing it because I feel it is necessary.

Also, my mom haven't been very good when doing adminitration of goods. She spend a lot when she has the chance.

It is curious that she complains about the way I use my salary. I have helped her in the past but she doesn't realize about that and when I brought that on the table, she minimized that.

My mom was calling me almost every 5 mins to the point I got annoyed and I was a bit harsh and made her feel bad. When she called back again, we apologized each other. I explained her she made me feel bad and I made her feel bad, so we had to stop that.

So she stopped the intense emotional blackmail and turned it a bit more subtle.

I ended up feeling guilty for not helping her, but I can't just cut off the help suddenly and I refuse to accept emotional blackmail as a legitimate mean to achieve whatever end.

Also, as warderbonded has pointed out, I guess I deserve some respect. I respect my mom, but she isn't respecting my personal sovereignity to use my money as I want.

Getting her therapy would be hard. She is very smart and capable to cheating many psychiatrists. I don't trust psychiatrists they are more crazy than their patients. At least, all people who is studying that seem to be trying to find a solution for their lives.

She doesn't have the chemical balance indeed. What I suspect is that she is not taking her medication again. She had reached the point where she can't be fine without medication. Once she stops, the crisis increase and there is no way to turn her back to medication.

I don't blame mom completely, for lack of chemical balance is likely to do that. She uses to be a good person when she is not in such chemical crisis.

One thing I've learned is that psychiatric patients with chemical unbalance can't be judged under normal parameters. It is like judging someone who is drunk.

[Chronus]

Originally posted by AR81
One thing I've learned is that psychiatric patients with chemical unbalance can't be judged under normal parameters. It is like judging someone who is drunk.

Very much so.

And one more reason to think and say "NO".

In the end, her intentions may be good after all, but in the meantime, there are other things you want and you have to consider, such as her chemical inbalance and your friend's rough spot.

Like TDC said, give her the time she needs...whenever you can give it. If financial help is at all possible, then you might want to rethink that as well - family should come first.

The fact that your mother has misspent money before may cause you to be extra careful when it comes to help her, but it shouldn't keep you from helping her (if and when you can). There are other ways you can help her financially without really giving her the money, aren't there?

As for Wanderbond's advice...I wouldn't be so quick in judging people, Wanderbond. Some Moms may suck, but it appears this is not the case and you EQUATE his case to those people whose mothers suck. Plus, there's a biochemical problem with his mother. Like Alpha said, you can't blame cronic drunkards for acting badly when under the influence of alcohol, can you?

Respect, lack of it, mothers who suck...Wanderbond, don't be so overly simplistic. Alpha's problem is also a family problem, he has both the brains and the maturity to solve it as best he can.

Now, Alpha, just one last thing: many, many friendships come and go.

But real family, generally, are there for you - even though family members also may incurr in some stupid mistakes. While I don't condone blackmail and the type of reasoning your mother has shown, while I myself wouldn't stop my friend all of a sudden, I'd keep in mind that FAMILY IS FAMILY. As long as you keep your spaces, as long as you are respected and cared for, family is family, and a mother is a Mother - which means she should come first.

No easy anwers, and you have always known that. Help your friend, but keep an eye on your mother - don't do anything you might regret. As I said, think it over thoroughly and act on it, and if you're just, you will have done the right thing.

Chronus

[Moridin00]

AR81, are you lending your friend a large amount of cash? What do these funds have to do with your mom's house?

Thirdly, is your friend a leech? (it's possible...) :(

[Hazir]

To be honest, I don't even understand the problem you tried to describe, I'm surprised other people felt they could give you any advise at all.

The only thing I can say is; your mother is your mother, which makes you not-her-husband. Any attempt on her side to make that different should be rebuffed. It is her prerogative to have an opinion on you giving your money to your friend, but it's none of her damn business all the same. Your choices should be based on your priorities, not on the demands of anybody else, lest they remain choices.

[Ron_Lugge]

Originally posted by AR81
My mom is blackmailing me. She asks me to give her the money I am giving to my friend for she says she is a leech and she brings everything from the past to demonstrate how much I owe her.

Note: I'm not a proffesional headshrinker, so I may be wrong. Also, I have a strong personality. However, my understanding is that THIS is the core of the problem.

The fact is, YOU OWE HER NOTHING. She and/or your father decided to have you, or chose to not take the appropriate procautiosn to not have you. IN NO WAY do you owe them.

Its called a social contract. A person who has a child, or takes care of it, has in essance aggreed to provide that child with full monetary and emotional support untill they can get their own feet under them. This isn't signed in writing, it is a contract accepted by society. SHE decided to have you (or to not not have you), so she payed the price (support untilll you grew up) with the knowledge that the only refund would be the joy of raising you. If she isn't happy with that... tell her to go to hell, because she's being unreasonable.

Look at it this way. If one of your friends baked you a cake without you asking for it, would you feel you owed said friend?

[AR81]

AR81, are you lending your friend a large amount of cash? Large is relative. It is large for my budget, but it is not too much.What do these funds have to do with your mom's house? Nothing, it is my salary. I was digging up more and I found something. The house where my mom lives is owned by my dad. If my father dies, his wife would be the owner and she may throw my mom away. That's what my mom fears.Your choices should be based on your priorities, not on the demands of anybody else, lest they remain choices. I understand her fears. However she choose the worst possible method. I have seen her more stable now. I hope she is taking her medication.

[Ganon]

At the BORDER of depression? I've been LIVING in depression for the past 4 years, AND I'M LOVING IT! But seriously, a couple options:
1. Cut off all communication with your mom.
2. Pay up(I don't reccomend this one).
3. Just ignore her.
As for getting out of depression, when you figure out how, let me know!

[Ganon]

Originally posted by ductonius

No, we (Canadians) just hate those who are determined, smart and fast enough to be wealthy.

So you're just a bunch of Democrats, then.

[AR81]

As for getting out of depression, when you figure out how, let me know! [/B] I did a search using "understanding depression" and "understanding stress".

I've been realizing that my depression responds to emotional pressure, stress. I had a hell at work from november 2002 to may 2003, because of a jerky youth who was my boss. Fortunately, I got transferred in may to a more peaceful place. And then this...

I found the following interesting links about depression (http://www.couns.uiuc.edu/Brochures/Depression.htm) and stress (http://www.mindtools.com/smundstr.html)

I realize now that my stress and depression respond to an external pressure.

After reading those links I realized that I didn't know too much about stress and depression.

[Ganon]

Lemme guess...
You no longer want to do the things you enjoy.
You prefer to be alone.
You don't feel like getting out of bed in the morning.
Things like that. Yep, I'm living in it. There's another word to describe the general feeling: "jaded".

[Ganon]

Originally posted by AR81
I did a search using "understanding depression" and "understanding stress".

I've been realizing that my depression responds to emotional pressure, stress. I had a hell at work from november 2002 to may 2003, because of a jerky youth who was my boss. Fortunately, I got transferred in may to a more peaceful place. And then this...

I found the following interesting links about depression (http://www.couns.uiuc.edu/Brochures/Depression.htm) and stress (http://www.mindtools.com/smundstr.html)

I realize now that my stress and depression respond to an external pressure.

After reading those links I realized that I didn't know too much about stress and depression.

After reading the list on that depression link... damn... I really am in a state of depression. :(

[AR81]

Depression is something that can be treated.
I have found many depressed people, more than one might think and those cases were treatable. However it is harder when depression knocks my door.

I am pretty sure that at a given time, once the external depressing factor is gone, I'll feel tired of being depressed. Since in a way I am a rebel, I will rebel against depression and I'll go back to normal.

Fortunately I learned that I can feel bad for a long time, but also I learned that having a problem that many people had, makes me aware that I can come out as many people did.

Once I knew an old woman. She got married when she was a teen, her husband beat her and finally he left her. She had to work her whole life as factory operator with a very low salary to raise her 2 daughters. She suffered a lot for years, and she learned to overcome that.

There is another friend. She is about 50 years old. She got married, beaten too, she was clinically dead. She has cancer and she had diarrhea for one year due to a strange allergy to wheat. She is a writer, a talented writer that is capable to inspire you with her tales and poems.

She wrote a story about "a bag of problems". It was a story of an old woman who had a bag that her mom gave to her to store all her problems. She had an ache, she threw it into the bag, she had financial problems then she threw them into the bag, she felt hungry then she trew it into the bag, she felt sad then she trew sadness into the bag.

There was a couple which were lovers of gossip and envy. They just wondered how is that such an old woman with such precarious means, could be so happy.

One day after spying through the window, they saw the bag and figured out there was a treasure there which made her not to be unhappy. The woman was to distract her while he entered the house and robbed that bag.

A few minutes later, the old woman found no bag and wondered "who could have taken it" with a smile.

The robbers took the bag to the forest and they opened it and suddenly they felt aches, hungry, sadness and financial problems.

The old woman got another bag and continued throwing her problems there and kept being happy.

If those friends of mine could be happy with such a serious problems, you bet I could do too.

I just feel the need to ask for advise from time to time because specific situations require specific answers.

However, as an overall matter, I don't like to surrender. I was at the edge of suicide about 7 years ago. It was stupid, it was for a girl. Later I discovered that I can't make happiness to rely on external things. You love a car and lose your car, you feel unhappy. You love a person and that person is gone, you feel unhappy. But if you love someone and have a car, but you don't make happiness to rely on them, you are not unhappy even if you lose both.

With this matter I was at the edge of depression because pressure since november has been very intense and stress is likely to cause depression.

I think that all the advise expressed here have helped me a bit to see things a bit more clear.
----------------------------------
BTW, I used to feel lonely very often. I had planned my life to get married at a given time but I remain single.

Later I realized that I complained about being alone, but when I had the chance I preferred to stay alone. Once I decided to be with someone not to be alone but it didn't work.

So I wondered what the hell was happening. I realized that in a way I was choosing to be alone, like a hermit, and the emptiness of loneliness wasn't a need for people, it was a spiritual need, as if I had been diving into the material world and I needed some fresh spiritual air...

I discovered that sleep, meditations and relaxation exercises allowed me to go deeper into the root. There was a barier of confusion and unease, but it was as if I had garbage in the closet and I took it out so the whole house is stinking, but once out I started to clean the evil inside myself.

[warderbonded]

Chronus, as you stated ...
As for Wanderbond's advice...I wouldn't be so quick in judging people, Wanderbond. Some Moms may suck, but it appears this is not the case and you EQUATE his case to those people whose mothers suck. Plus, there's a biochemical problem with his mother. Like Alpha said, you can't blame cronic drunkards for acting badly when under the influence of alcohol, can you?

Honestly I am judging the situation from experience. Perhaps not his and his mothers experience, but experience just the same.
Manipulative people ... and I do still believe she is being manipulative ... they always seem justified and always rationalize their actions in ways that make the person targeted question their own feelings about what is being done to them. Hence the term manipulation. It is something usually used to selfish purposes to the good of the manipulator, not the manipulated. So yes, AR81 ... she makes it look like she intended the house for you all along .... yeah, that sounds nice. Maybe she really did, but you describe her as emotionally blackmailing you again ... it is not an unfamiliar thing for her to do ... so I still question her motives and reasons.

There may be no chemical problem ... it does make for a nice excuse though doesn't it?
And a drunk is a drunk ... no excuses. So yes, I do blame them and I am tired of all of the political correctness around such situations. Ever heard of enabling? Could you be one?
I just call it like I see it.
Some Mom's do suck ... Mom's are people too, not saints to be praised for making offspring. Other Mom's deserve the respect and sacrifice their children give them.

Oh, and it is Warderbonded ... not Wanderbond. :haha:

[Chronus]

Originally posted by warderbonded
So yes, AR81 ... she makes it look like she intended the house for you all along .... yeah, that sounds nice. Maybe she really did, but you describe her as emotionally blackmailing you again ... it is not an unfamiliar thing for her to do ... so I still question her motives and reasons.

There may be no chemical problem ... it does make for a nice excuse though doesn't it?
And a drunk is a drunk ... no excuses. So yes, I do blame them and I am tired of all of the political correctness around such situations. Ever heard of enabling? Could you be one?
I just call it like I see it.
Some Mom's do suck ... Mom's are people too, not saints to be praised for making offspring. Other Mom's deserve the respect and sacrifice their children give them.


Why do you have to see this in such a negative way? If alpha is aware of her problems, then why do you question EVERY motive, every action on her part? It seems to me you're just being negative.

Aye, keep it cool, WarderB.

chronus

[Moridin00]

Originally posted by warderbonded
Oh, and it is Warderbonded ... not Wanderbond. :haha:
:haha: Who's gonna get that around here? :haha:

[bartwart]

What if your mom get's thrown out by your dad's wife, should he pass away? Then she will be asking to live with you!!!!!

Take Zoloft.

[warderbonded]

Originally posted by Chronus
Why do you have to see this in such a negative way? If alpha is aware of her problems, then why do you question EVERY motive, every action on her part? It seems to me you're just being negative.

Aye, keep it cool, WarderB.

chronus

I don't really see it as being negative. I don't see all people, or Mom's, that way.

I just understand manipulative people. I understand that anything that excuses their actions is useful to them.
A person who is manipulated ... or emotionally blackmailed, as AR81 describes it ... will not always fully question a situation ... even when it seems resolved. AR81 seems a very decent guy. He seems nice, fair minded, and fun loving. He is also kind and rather trusting ... until that trust is broken. However, when it comes to a Mother ... no matter how cruel she may be ... a child still loves their Mother in some part of themselves and want to believe the best. I am sure he wants to believe her motives are not selfish ... to believe her answer of and I quote "If my father dies, his wife would be the owner and she may throw my mom away. That's what my mom fears."
Honestly I understand AR81 to be an adult. He has his own job, living arrangement, etc. It seems to me that his Mom has a problem with his Father and his wife. A manipulative person likes to win ... and look good doing it. Perhaps if you put your mind to place you could imagine a person who is selfish enough to tell you want to hear in order to gain your trust to get what they want ... and make it look like they are doing you a favor.
Does she have a home? Does she have children? Is she perhaps just making things uncomfortable for others because she has immature issues about her ex-spouse? It happens all the time.

It is not negativity ... it is realistic. He asked for help while feeling emotionally blackmailed and we understand she has the habit of doing this. I simply pointed out that he might want to question what she does and says.
Perhaps you are just naive? As I said before, there are people out there who are not always/or at all nice.
I typically believe the best in others until I observe differently.
I am not paranoid.
I am not just picking on some poor mother without a home or family left to her.

She is an adult. She should act like one and not involve her son in her emotional baggage. Other people said that … I am just pointing out that what appears to be innocent, may in fact, might not be.

[AR81]

Both Chronus and Warderbonded have shown legitimate intentions to help, no matter if points of view are different.

Indeed, having external and different points of view help to assess the situation more clearly.

Astrologically, having debts, being manipulative, being betrayer, is not favored right now. Sorry for bringing this out, this is just an interesting note.

Thanks for your flattering comments Warderbonded. I have realized that the main problems I could have to be married is that I am a bit non-organized at home. I am very efficient at work, but for some reason I am not like that at home. May be I got used to be messy as a single.

Also, I do love arts and computers, and that's something many women don't understand.

Warderbonded is not paranoid. To be paranoid people need to be a celebrity with a bunch of paparazzis.

Another problem I have with women is that women separate the concept of sex/marriage and the concept of friend.

[Chronus]

Originally posted by warderbonded
Perhaps you are just naive? As I said before, there are people out there who are not always/or at all nice.
I typically believe the best in others until I observe differently.
I am not paranoid.
I am not just picking on some poor mother without a home or family left to her.



Never said you were paranoid, I said you were being a bit negative about this issue.

Which I maintain.

As for my being naive...

Perhaps. I've seen my quota of manipulative people, what we call in Portuguese "people with an interest" (interesseiros), but I still believe that we can trust ourselves, our lives, our feelings most of the times to most mothers. Of course, there are people out there who toss newborns into trash-bins, there are people out there who never care for their kids but use them to make money.

I just think that, given what Alpha told us, we shouldn't be too rough on his mother, ie, we should not rush ourselves into believing that she has an ulterior motive to everything she does or say to him.

She has problems. She may be under the influence of a "snake" (his aunt, right); she is chemically imbalanced does not have a family besides Alpha. So...yes, he shouldn't bent to her will, but he should take care of her as much as he is able to. And even if she is misbehaving with her son, he still owes to himself to treat her right (which does not imply to do whatever she demands or quit helping his friend).

Chronus

[Wormboy]

Rule of thumb: don't let people blackmail/coerce you.

The world figured this out re:terrorism in the 70s. before then people were hijacking planes right and left. Then governments stopped giving in to the terrorists demands.

You know what the right thing is, Alpha. You just want somebody to tell you that it's right. Well, I'll say it for you: don't let your parents jerk you around just because they are your parents. Just because they are parents doesn't mean they are always right. In fact, almost everybody reproduces, and look how many of them are screwups. Odds are your parents (or mine) aren't perfect.

Edit: same goes for your friend.

[AR81]

Regarding my friend, I'll assess the situation.
I can't keep my budget tight for long. I need to afford a life too.

[Invisible]

Originally posted by AR81
Regarding my friend, I'll assess the situation.
I can't keep my budget tight for long. I need to afford a life too.

Yes, you need to buy yourself some Jello pudding like I did yesterday. LOL, yum. :)

[AR81]

She called me to work today. As I told her that she should have to find a way to make money. Singing in the bus, selling beauty and makeup items... I told her I clearly stated my condition. She asked me not to help my friend.

What she is asking me is about one month of my salary before november. I can't do that. It's simply impossible.

I said that once helping my friend is over, I'd help her. She said that property transfer taxes should be paid before november or the whole legal process would be nulified by prescription, because it was started some years ago.

I told her that I have already stated my conditions and I won't promise what I won't be able to accomplish.

She replied: "If I lose this house I will never forgive you", then hanged up.

In one hand I understand her fears, but not the means she is using.

I'd like to help her but I can't. Even if I stopped helping my friend the money wouldn't be enough.

I hate materialism. It makes me feel that a house is more important than me, her son. I understand her frustration, but I amnot the right guy to blame, unless I become scapegoat.

I'm not sure if I'll regret this decision, but I guess I should stay firm, not accepting blackmail.

In a way I'd be testing her.
Am I more important than a house?
Does it mean that it is the price for her love?
If she hates me for not helping her and she does nothing to earn money, then I'd learn that love has a price that can be measured in currency.

[Chronus]

Originally posted by AR81

I'd like to help her but I can't. Even if I stopped helping my friend the money wouldn't be enough.

I hate materialism. It makes me feel that a house is more important than me, her son. I understand her frustration, but I amnot the right guy to blame, unless I become scapegoat.

I'm not sure if I'll regret this decision, but I guess I should stay firm, not accepting blackmail.

In a way I'd be testing her.
Am I more important than a house?
Does it mean that it is the price for her love?
If she hates me for not helping her and she does nothing to earn money, then I'd learn that love has a price that can be measured in currency.

You did good.

Maybe some day you'll feel a bit bad about this, but IMO, you did what you had to do, considering that the money you could give her would never be enough to accomplish what she needs.

As for blackmail...forget that. Desperate people do desperate things, it doesn't mean the house is more important than you, it doesn't mean she doesn't care for you.

A true mother doesn't set a price for her love. Never. But a desperate mother may say and do things she shoulnd't do and she'll regret some day.

Anyway, keep an eye on her. Show her that maybe you can help her any other way but that.

Good luck, Alpha.

Chronus

[Moridin00]

Every bit he gave his mom would help.

AR, this is the woman who gave birth to you. If I were you, I'd pick your lip up off the ground, tell your leech buddy that she'll have to wait, because there's a higher-priority issue going on which also requires your funds. As there's not enough to go around, you gotta pull it from her until things improve.

May I suggest you tell your friend to go sing on a bus, or sell cosmetics, to make a quick buck. Telling your mom to do that would be rude; but I'm sure you never would never do that. :bulb:

Help your mom out; family is one of the most important things in your life! :up:

Remember your true loyalties.

[AR81]

More new elements to the picture.

My dad promised he would pay for the expenses.
He hasn't let me down in the past in money matters.

I learned what is the money for. What my mom wants is to pay another lawyer for she doesn't trust this one. This lawyer has been a bit slow in the paperwork. It seems that the only thing required to solve her problem is that she sign but she doesn't want.

I told her the only thing she should do is to read before signing.
In either case, I have some legal background and unless it is very specific, a lawyer can't cheat me so easily, so I could check the text of the papers.

However, she refuses. She has the fixed idea that she must hire the lawyer of my sneaky auntie. I DON'T trust that lawyer. Never heard of him, I have no references about him. He could perfectly cheat us and take away the house of my mom for his own benefit. My father don't trust him either.

My mom won't sign unless it is this lawyer.

If I were you, I'd pick your lip up off the ground, tell your leech buddy that she'll have to wait, because there's a higher-priority issue going on which also requires your funds. That's precisely the point. I'd hate to pay 2 lawyers to do the job of one. That's not a priority.
Telling your mom to do that would be rude; but I'm sure you never would never do that. Emotional blackmailing is rude. I have a terrible habit, I use to treat people just like they treat me. It is not intentional, I realize after a while. I know I was rude, she was to so we both should apologize each other, but things are a bit hot and she knows that my reply was emotional.

It is humilliating that she forces me to help her in a matter where she seems not to require any help. In money matters, my mom has always shown no awareness of my needs. She used to give away my toys to kids who came home, you guess how I felt. She considered that giving me the basic clothing and food was enough.

It is not a vendetta, I just won't let her do the same again.

Help your mom out; family is one of the most important things in your life!

Remember your true loyalties. I'm aware of that. However I refuse to promote behaviors like blackmailing.

My dad was in need some years ago. He had no job and I took my savings and I didn't ask a question. I knew he would give money to my mom and would fulfill his duties and debts.

He gave me my money back but if he didn't I wouldn't complain because I saw a real state of need.

My mom doesn't have a job. She asks for money and I give her money. Then she asks for more and she says that... it's just not fair.

Loyalty towards family doesn't mean you must tolerate abuse. I respect them, they better respect me. I am prompt to help, but not under blackmailing conditions.

As for my friend, I am considering to retire help. I better save money as reserve for an emergency, or just spend a bit more on me. I've not done it for a few months.

[Chronus]

Originally posted by AR81
Loyalty towards family doesn't mean you must tolerate abuse. I respect them, they better respect me. I am prompt to help, but not under blackmailing conditions.

As for my friend, I am considering to retire help. I better save money as reserve for an emergency, or just spend a bit more on me. I've not done it for a few months.

Moridin has it right (and so do I): family comes first.

But...now that the picture is becoming clear in ALL directions, your decision is also becoming less troublesome.

Chronus

[Ron_Lugge]

Originally posted by Moridin00
Every bit he gave his mom would help.

AR, this is the woman who gave birth to you. If I were you, I'd pick your lip up off the ground, tell your leech buddy that she'll have to wait, because there's a higher-priority issue going on which also requires your funds. As there's not enough to go around, you gotta pull it from her until things improve.

May I suggest you tell your friend to go sing on a bus, or sell cosmetics, to make a quick buck. Telling your mom to do that would be rude; but I'm sure you never would never do that. :bulb:

Help your mom out; family is one of the most important things in your life! :up:

Remember your true loyalties.

Mordin, you are operating from one assumption: he has a real family. A GOOD family. It sounds like he does... but I've known people whom, even though they are fathers, my first advice to their children would be "Get the hell away from him, and stay the hell away."

edit: My first advice, WERE it asked

[Moridin00]

My mom won't sign unless it is this lawyer.
What lawyer it is is irrelevant; you can always run the contract through another lawyer to determine if it's safe.

More expense, but it may be worthwhile.

In money matters, my mom has always shown no awareness of my needs. She used to give away my toys to kids who came home, you guess how I felt. She considered that giving me the basic clothing and food was enough
She's sounding generous, you're sounding petulant. :sour:

I think you're fortunate to have had food and clothing. I know I was lucky to have those things. Toys were just an added bonus - not critical to being loved.

Loyalty towards family doesn't mean you must tolerate abuse. I respect them, they better respect me. I am prompt to help, but not under blackmailing conditions.
Glad to hear you're prompt in helping! :up: Better get on with it and do it then.

As for my friend, I am considering to retire help.
One of your better ideas. :)

So what's the current status of this issue?

[Spin]

Originally posted by Ganon
At the BORDER of depression? I've been LIVING in depression for the past 4 years, AND I'M LOVING IT! But seriously, a couple options:
<snip>
As for getting out of depression, when you figure out how, let me know!

:up:

Why is everyone so keen to overcome depression anyway? Personally I'm quite at peace with it, we are all influenced differently, if your a depressive by nature then only society says its a matter of being "cured" personally I think its a matter of being adaptive to your situation and getting the best from that (hell, if depression doesn't help creativity then I dont know what does :))

[AR81]

Originally posted by Moridin00
What lawyer it is is irrelevant; you can always run the contract through another lawyer to determine if it's safe.

More expense, but it may be worthwhile.

She's sounding generous, you're sounding petulant. :sour:

I think you're fortunate to have had food and clothing. I know I was lucky to have those things. Toys were just an added bonus - not critical to being loved.

Glad to hear you're prompt in helping! :up: Better get on with it and do it then.

One of your better ideas. :)

So what's the current status of this issue?
It is generous when you give away something of yours, not a toy of your kid to please other people. Kid lose, other people wins. No gain for the mother who gives away the toy. have you ever tried to give away the favorite toy of a kid? You bet that kid will remember that forever.

Regarding my friend, I want her to get used to the idea that from now on my help will be minimal and there will be no certainty on how much or how often I can give her any help. I don't want her to depend on me. The process is gradual but it already started. Obviously I won't let her be in need, but I won't afford her life either, only the most basic.

[Ron_Lugge]

Originally posted by Moridin00
I think you're fortunate to have had food and clothing. I know I was lucky to have those things. Toys were just an added bonus - not critical to being loved.

I don't like that attitude. Its rude, and wrong. Though some don't get it, everyone *deserves* to have food, clothing, and shelter. Toys are a luxury, yes, however giving one kids toys to another is wrong. I can recognize that its "generous", but its still wrong. If the kid decides to do it, thats one thing, but forcing him to do so is stealing. Generous is if the kid does it himself; if you do it for him its cruel.

One of your better ideas. :)

Friends can be as close or closer than family - I hate those that seem to think that simply being related is important. Its not. Whats important is the caring, and loving, that goes on in a family.

[Moridin00]

Originally posted by Ron_Lugge
I don't like that attitude. Its rude, and wrong.
Hint: Don't tell an african (even if they're white) that it's 'rude' and 'wrong' to point out that some are born with more than others... You wouldn't believe how some people in the world live. The concept of even owning a toy can be totally foreign. Pls excuse the unintentional irony.

Toys are a luxury, yes, however giving one kids toys to another is wrong. I can recognize that its "generous", but its still wrong. If the kid decides to do it, thats one thing, but forcing him to do so is stealing. Generous is if the kid does it himself; if you do it for him its cruel.
Teaching by example is an effective method of teaching, especially when teaching kids.
Further, what are the chances of a kid voluntarily giving up his favourite toy to someone less fortunate if he's not been taught to do so? - Minimal. Kids are selfish and greedy by nature (not to demean kids - they obviously have very many positive aspects to their personalities too).

I think that any kid will bristle at the prospect of their favourite toy being given to someone less fortunate, its only natural. However, the true value of the lesson comes when they internalise and understand what actually happened, and feel happy that their toy was given away - that's the intended lesson in compassion here.

Friends can be as close or closer than family - I hate those that seem to think that simply being related is important. Its not. Whats important is the caring, and loving, that goes on in a family.
Agreed - and to take your point further, the caring and loving that goes on in a family is more important than caring and loving that occurs between friends... Friends can come and go. Family is your family forever.

[Ron_Lugge]

Originally posted by Moridin00
Hint: Don't tell an african (even if they're white) that it's 'rude' and 'wrong' to point out that some are born with more than others... You wouldn't believe how some people in the world live. The concept of even owning a toy can be totally foreign. Pls excuse the unintentional irony.

I'm not saying its rude or wrong to point it out; I'm saying its stupid to base actions off of that (E. G. eat your food, people in africa are starving)

Teaching by example is an effective method of teaching, especially when teaching kids.

I buy that.

[qutoe]Further, what are the chances of a kid voluntarily giving up his favourite toy to someone less fortunate if he's not been taught to do so?[/quote]

Nonexistant. But whats the point?

- Minimal. Kids are selfish and greedy by nature (not to demean kids - they obviously have very many positive aspects to their personalities too).

Yes, they are. And your going to teach them to be generous by stealing from them? No thanks.

I think that any kid will bristle at the prospect of their favourite toy being given to someone less fortunate, its only natural. However, the true value of the lesson comes when they internalise and understand what actually happened, and feel happy that their toy was given away - that's the intended lesson in compassion here.

Your being deliberatly stupid if you think the kid will *ever* get past "My favorite toy was taken." Charity is *NOT* charity if its forced.

Agreed - and to take your point further, the caring and loving that goes on in a family is more important than caring and loving that occurs between friends... Friends can come and go. Family is your family forever. [/B]

I think you misunderstood me. Caring is whats important; yet friends can be far more lasting and caring than family. Generally it may take a really screwed up family to cause this, but this can also happen when two people who are very compatable meet (platonicly compatable) and become friends.

Friends can come and go, family is forever... But you overlook something. I've seen people with families that are less than what you'd wipe off your shoe; I've seen people with friends that are closer than family. Despite what we like to think, being kin does not (and should not) determine your relationship. Its how you treat eachother... that is always what tells, and what should.

As I often like to say, "Friends are the family you choose."

[Moridin00]

Originally posted by Ron_Lugge
I'm not saying its rude or wrong to point it out; I'm saying its stupid to base actions off of that (E. G. eat your food, people in africa are starving)
I didn't 'base any actions' off it; I merely said that I considered myself lucky to have had those things.



Further, what are the chances of a kid voluntarily giving up his favourite toy to someone less fortunate if he's not been taught to do so?

Nonexistant. But whats the point?
The point is that without education in charity, humans would do it very very seldom!

Yes, they are. And your going to teach them to be generous by stealing from them? No thanks.
'Being generous' is not the issue - an ingrained education in the rights of equality for all humans is the intended result.
And where do you get this stealing thing from? If your mom approached you about it in the right way, you'd be happy to donate your favourite toy to someone else. This is what I feel should happen more often. I'm not saying it can happen more often; just that I want it to.

Your being deliberatly stupid if you think the kid will *ever* get past "My favorite toy was taken." Charity is *NOT* charity if its forced.
As mentioned above, it's not an issue of charity.

I think you misunderstood me. Caring is whats important; *snip* Despite what we like to think, being kin does not (and should not) determine your relationship. Its how you treat eachother... that is always what tells, and what should.

As I often like to say, "Friends are the family you choose."
I didn't propose that every family exists in utopian bliss. Believe me, I understand what dysfunctional families are. However, I still maintain that family bonds are somewhat more important than friendship bonds - whether they are always more rewarding is debatable, as you've shown.

Let me explain where I'm coming from a little - people exist to 'love and reproduce', basically (although this is massively debatable :) ). But anyway, your mate is family - not a friend. From this point of view, do you still believe that friendship relationships have the same value as family relationships?
I think that great family relationships are the ultimate ideal - the result of transformation from friend in to family.

[Ron_Lugge]

Originally posted by Moridin00
The point is that without education in charity, humans would do it very very seldom!

And I agree... But I don't think we were approaching that from the same tack...

[qutoe]'Being generous' is not the issue - an ingrained education in the rights of equality for all humans is the intended result.
And where do you get this stealing thing from? If your mom approached you about it in the right way, you'd be happy to donate your favourite toy to someone else. This is what I feel should happen more often. I'm not saying it can happen more often; just that I want it to.[/quote]

IIRC, the guy said his toy was taken from him. Now, I can buy being approached in the right way as not stealing (In fact, I'd consider that exactly what she should do!), but if it was taken from him its stealing.

As mentioned above, it's not an issue of charity.

But it is. If your trying to educate him to be charitable, taking things from him is *not* the right approach. Don't give them in the first place would be better.

I didn't propose that every family exists in utopian bliss. Believe me, I understand what dysfunctional families are. However, I still maintain that family bonds are somewhat more important than friendship bonds - whether they are always more rewarding is debatable, as you've shown.

I don't buy them being more important, any way or form. What determines the import of a bond is how close it is. Period.

Let me explain where I'm coming from a little - people exist to 'love and reproduce', basically (although this is massively debatable :) ). But anyway, your mate is family - not a friend. From this point of view, do you still believe that friendship relationships have the same value as family relationships?
I think that great family relationships are the ultimate ideal - the result of transformation from friend in to family.

I agree, a mate is family and not friend. However, while I agree with much of what you say, "I think...friend in to family" has a major flaw. Sometimes such relationships are not a meeting of equals, but rather an excuse to bludgeon and abuse (The abusive husband / parent). Tell me, do you consider such familial bonds to be of *any* importance beyond the need to snip them, ASAP?


I think much of our dissagreement comes from the simple fact that you seem to be a lot more optimistic about humanity than I am. I know full well that human beings as a whole are a corrupt, disgusting, and incredibly cruel lot, albiet with individuals having some (or many) redeeming characteristics. Do you?

[Moridin00]

Originally posted by Ron_Lugge
IIRC, the guy said his toy was taken from him. Now, I can buy being approached in the right way as not stealing (In fact, I'd consider that exactly what she should do!), but if it was taken from him its stealing.
What I'm saying, is that perhaps it wasn't stolen... but that's the way he internalised it. :rolleyes: See what I'm saying?

I think..."friend in to family" has a major flaw. Sometimes such relationships are not a meeting of equals, but rather an excuse to bludgeon and abuse (The abusive husband / parent).
Yes, sometimes that can occur. But its not the norm, nor should it be the norm. In the one life that we have, its our responsiblity to live it the way we think is best. If we are stuck in a bad relationship, we can only realise for ourselves that we need to get out. Getting out will bring happiness, even though its a hard thing to do.
Using this minority as a reason to inflate the importance of friendship is flawed: Firstly, it's the minority. Secondly, friends can abuse in the same way. either way, its not a healthy relationship.
Not all relationships are unhealthy. :)

I think much of our dissagreement comes from the simple fact that you seem to be a lot more optimistic about humanity than I am.
I'm not overly optimistic; I just believe that I have control over my life and I choose to make it through as wisely, safely and lovingly as poccible.

I know full well that human beings as a whole are a corrupt, disgusting, and incredibly cruel lot, albiet with individuals having some (or many) redeeming characteristics. Do you?
Not really. I think its human to err... and only hindsight gives one the ability to know right from wrong. So ppl's personalities evolve towards hindsight.
Ppl stuck in bad situations, or doing things that are 'wrong', usually don't know any better anyway. We hope they will learn. Hence things like jail terms for abusive people.

I don't think its a negative reflection on the entire human race. :)

[Ron_Lugge]

Originally posted by Moridin00
What I'm saying, is that perhaps it wasn't stolen... but that's the way he internalised it. :rolleyes: See what I'm saying?

Yes. But if it was taken, unwillingly, from him, in my book it was stolen. Period, the end.

Yes, sometimes that can occur. But its not the norm, nor should it be the norm. In the one life that we have, its our responsiblity to live it the way we think is best. If we are stuck in a bad relationship, we can only realise for ourselves that we need to get out. Getting out will bring happiness, even though its a hard thing to do.
Using this minority as a reason to inflate the importance of friendship is flawed: Firstly, it's the minority. Secondly, friends can abuse in the same way. either way, its not a healthy relationship.
Not all relationships are unhealthy. :)

I agree, its abnormal and shouldn't be used as a baseline. But it still underscores my point - not all familial relationships are more important than friendships.

[AR81]

A side and funny note: young women are prompt to make a difference between friends and boyfriends.

If you are her friend you have very low chances to become her boyfriend. Have you ever heard the sinister expression "you are in the dangerous zone of friendship"?:haha: :haha:

Fortunately I don't like that girl for a girlfriend. Not my type. She fights a lot with boyfriends.
--------------------------------
In a way Morodin could have a point as well as Ron...
Your family may not be your family.
But friends may not be likely to be your family.
Why?

Friendship is based on freedom.
Family has some emotional attachment and some dependency on each other.

Friends can help you, support you during tough times.
But eventually friends make their lives and their lives take different paths. It's the essence of freedom.

Family is a different structure. It's a structure that provides shelter and care.

It doesn't mean that family and friends don't mix, what I mean is that such mix doesn't last long.

I have good loyal friends I've never seen in years. It doesn't mean they don't care. it is that they are temporarily busy with their lives. Some day they could come and say "let's party" or "I need your advise".

So I'd say friends is a different kind of family, but not just the traditional concept of family.

[Moridin00]

Originally posted by Ron_Lugge
Yes. But if it was taken, unwillingly, from him, in my book it was stolen. Period, the end.

I agree, its abnormal and shouldn't be used as a baseline. But it still underscores my point - not all familial relationships are more important than friendships.
Not very interested in grey areas, are you? :)

Ok, we'll agree to disagree.

AR81: So what's happening with the mom situation then?

[AR81]

She was asking me money to pay the other lawyer. I won't give a penny for I don't trust that guy and I don't like emotional blackmailing.

Also she was asking money to pay the taxes involved in that matter. However, I found that there is no need to pay those taxes for such transfer of property is due family laws and that brings a tax exemption in case of transfer of property due to divorce. So no need of that.

The blackmailing stopped. I never agreed with that method. At least I demonstrated that.

I will invite her to celebrate her birthday and anything I give to her won't be cash she will use to pay that lawyer. that would enforce the idea that I care about her but I don't accept emotional blackmailing.

I told my friend I wouldn't be able to help her for 2 weeks.
She knows that it is not my duty to help her.
However I'll keep in touch to see how is she, in case she needs help. I know she won't ask for help, so I'll have to dig up to see how is she.