Huh? TWO races offer NAP at Turn 3 ?!?

[MasterMoO]

Dunno if this is due to the patch's adjustment to other races' behaviour to prevent silly war declarations but the following never happened to me pre patch.

I was starting a new game in the senate and at turn 3 two races offered NAPs. I didn't even have any talks with them before.
In every other game it took me a great deal of time n effort to get a NAP.
Did anyone else get the impression that diplomacy is somewhat screwed?

[NeutroniumDrgn]

I've had that often enough, both before and after the patch. As long as they're reasonably friendly towards you to begin with, they may offer a NAP right off the bat.

Neutronium Dragon

[MasterMoO]

Ok, thanx for the input.

[ILIKEDMOOB4THIS]

I am currently playing this game where I am at war
with this race. This seems to have triggered war with
their ally. That is the correct behavior if I understand
the patch readme correctly. What is strange is that
in exactly the same turn along with a declaration of
war came an offer for a Non-Aggression Treaty. :weird:

Anyway, in this same current game I had all sorts of
trade treaties with this race that declared war on me,
while offering a Non-Aggression Treaty, but could
not get the enemy of my enemy and friend of my friend
to make any trade deals with me. ;)

Cool, huh? Btw, the text in their diplomatic responses
can be real funny. They seem pretty random and some
are out right funny ;)

[James1701]

Originally posted by ILIKEDMOOB4THIS
I am currently playing this game where I am at war
with this race. This seems to have triggered war with
their ally. That is the correct behavior if I understand
the patch readme correctly. What is strange is that
in exactly the same turn along with a declaration of
war came an offer for a Non-Aggression Treaty. :weird:

Anyway, in this same current game I had all sorts of
trade treaties with this race that declared war on me,
while offering a Non-Aggression Treaty, but could
not get the enemy of my enemy and friend of my friend
to make any trade deals with me. ;)

Cool, huh? Btw, the text in their diplomatic responses
can be real funny. They seem pretty random and some
are out right funny ;)

From my experience the problem lay with the fact that the AI only considers each diplomatic transaction indiviually using only the pre-existing relations modifiers when deciding to send a message or a response. In this case my guess would be that on the previous turn the first AI sent a message asking the second AI to fulfill its alliance obligations and declare war on you. It must have accepted this proposal and sent you a declaration of war. Now since the "at war" status doesn't take affect until you recieve the message it independently came to the decision to send you an offer of a NAP based on its pre-war relations/CB with your empire. I think the only way to really fix this is for the devs to implement a two-pass system for the AI when considering diplomatic transactions. The first pass to tentetively accept, reject or propose all of the transactions it plans to make during its turn and also to prioritize those transactions in order of importance to its empire. The second pass would be to weed out any conflicting transactions and either cancel or alter the response to the lower prioritized of the transactions in conflict.

Well, that's my take on the matter. I hope I didn't confuse anyone.

[MasterMoO]

"Btw, the text in their diplomatic responses
can be real funny. They seem pretty random and some
are out right funny "

Heh, yeah. Something like:
Relations Improving

Listen carefully dispicable Minbari, we wrathfully declare that we approve of your latest behaviour and offer our warmest congratulations.

[Beamup]

Originally posted by MasterMoO
Heh, yeah. Something like:
Relations Improving

Listen carefully dispicable Minbari, we wrathfully declare that we approve of your latest behaviour and offer our warmest congratulations.

Actually that can be a quite reasonable form. A similar form that might be more clear why it makes sense would be

"Well, you miserable little insects, it looks like you actually did something right for once. That makes us hate you a little bit less."

[Ron_Lugge]

Originally posted by ILIKEDMOOB4THIS
I am currently playing this game where I am at war
with this race. This seems to have triggered war with
their ally. That is the correct behavior if I understand
the patch readme correctly. What is strange is that
in exactly the same turn along with a declaration of
war came an offer for a Non-Aggression Treaty. :weird:

Anyway, in this same current game I had all sorts of
trade treaties with this race that declared war on me,
while offering a Non-Aggression Treaty, but could
not get the enemy of my enemy and friend of my friend
to make any trade deals with me. ;)

Cool, huh? Btw, the text in their diplomatic responses
can be real funny. They seem pretty random and some
are out right funny ;)

A) there is no need to manually end-stop the lines as if this were a typewriter - the forums do that for you, and thus your post will scale to the reader's screen.
B) The AI makes a decision on each diplomatic move independently of the others. So it may decide to offer you a NAP the same turn as it recieves an allies request to honor its alliance... Thus, it accepts and sends an NAP.

[ILIKEDMOOB4THIS]

Originally posted by Ron_Lugge
A) there is no need to manually end-stop the lines as if this were a typewriter - the forums do that for you, and thus your post will scale to the reader's screen.


Yeah ... I know but I have a bad habit of hitting return at the end of each line. This is partly course I like having short lines as it make its easier for me to scan the text for mistakes (I am spelling and typing impaired). I am using 1600x1200 resolution, so the line is very long and hard to scan otherwise. Yeah, I know I can shrink the window .... ;)


B) The AI makes a decision on each diplomatic move independently of the others. So it may decide to offer you a NAP the same turn as it recieves an allies request to honor its alliance... Thus, it accepts and sends an NAP.

And so? Isn't that sort of like saying, "We declare war, but we want peace." If they want peace, why would declare war? :) It is still odd. By the way, here is a real odd one for the group. According to the heading they wanted a "TA: Intellgence 1/1" but the message says:

"Greetings, oh stubborn PSILON. We say you must surely see the need to enter into a defensive military alliance [sic] with your [sic] civilization; even you can see why it must be so!" says the Gunalo ambasssador, grousing disagreeablly."

I accpeted the proposal. The threaty that was setup was as the heading states, not what the diplomat said. An intellgence trade agreement. They offered a denfensive allliance about 10 turns later, if I remember correctly. Subsequently, why does it mention "your civilization" instead of "our civilization?" Why would I want to make a defensive alliance with myself. :weird:

In conclusion, this is after downloading the latest patch. I am not sure if this problem was there before the patch, as it was not my habit to read the text. I would also like to know how do i can get snapshots into my message. I have some neat snap shots of snafus in MOO3, like the above. ;)

Flames > /dev/null

[Ron_Lugge]

Originally posted by ILIKEDMOOB4THIS
And so? Isn't that sort of like saying, "We declare war, but we want peace." If they want peace, why would declare war? :) It is still odd. By the way, here is a real odd one for the group. According to the heading they wanted a "TA: Intellgence 1/1" but the message says:

The poor diplo text is normal (it plays madlibs) and I forgot to mention something - supposedly they are fixing it so that no more war-peace messages get sent.

[MasterMoO]

Yesterday I found another bug in diplomacy texts which has been found numerous times before I bet.
When a race asks me to fulfill alliance obligations the text actually say that they want to share fruits of research.

[Steely Glint]

They say a number of things, including messages from diplomacy that got cut.

[MasterMoO]

But this should be easily fixed. So they should have done that in the patch.

[Steely Glint]

They're doing it for the next one.

[MasterMoO]

The current one is already pretty nice.
At least it fixed the AI.
Yesterday another empire attacked a frontier world of mine with an Armada of 255 LRA and PD ships. *gulp*