Happy 4th of July!

[Baradiel]

Well, Gand did post this in the tWt public forum, but I didn't see any post on this forum yet. So, ironically this has to come off a Euro guy. :p Anyway, happy 4th of July to all you Americans! :D

[C13 Aragorn]

Happy 4th! *gets drunk and vomits on self*

[Hålo]

*casts fireworks*

[StinkyWizzleteeth]

rah! http://www.gamers-forums.com/smilies/otn/party/beerchug.gif

[MK Reload]

The Celebration of American Independance began today at 12 AM and will last for 24 hours. People will BBQ and play loud music and probably drink more than is good for them. And probably give about 2 and one half seconds thought to why.

American Independance Day isn't a celebration of the creation of a nation. It isn't the celebration of the spectacular odds which were beaten. Nor a celebration of the exceptional authoring of the Declaration of Independance. Instead it's a celebration of the accomplishments of this nation.

A celebration of baseball, Bugs Bunny, the six shooter, the railroad, hotdogs, muscle cars, High School Proms, HBO, McDonald's, flannel, Levi's, Elvis, Metallica, Johnny Cash, James Dean and microwave Pizza. The computer you are using to read this; the internet that computer is connected too. The electricity that powers the computer. The car you use to go farther than you could under any other means. The road you drive that car on. The coke bottle on the side of that road.

Those are a few of things that American ingenuity have brought to the world during our existence. What about our biggest gift?

I know many Europeans would be living a completely different life if we hadn't defeated the German Conquest. Or caused the USSR to crumble through economic, military and political pressure. Many Asians would would be living under authoritatian regimes. Many people would be starving to death.

This is not a day for saying "The US could and should do more." It's a day for realizing that the United States contributes more money to third world countries than any other. Gives more humanitarian aid than any other. Has sent more troops to fight for causes not our own. Has done more for the world than any other 10 countries put together, in any catagory immaginable. Technological, scietific, evironmental, societal or political.

This just isn't a day for American't to appreciate how great we as a Nation are. This is a day for everyone to give a silent moment for all we have given and sacrificed.

[<Wt-AM>Moiraine]

and a day to boot George Bush out of office cause he doesn't care about any of those ideals of helping people out, environmental causes or any of the above! Woot! :D

[Hålo]

You did all elect him with your needlessly complicated election system. Though I agree, that he's just a puppet of the evil Republican party and their thirst for world domination.

I say we accept Clinton's appeal to get more terms in the President's office, get him a damn hot intern, and enjoy the spectacle that is the American Political System!:p

[MK Reload]

I hope no one is intentially mocking what I am saying. http://www.arlingtoncemetery.org/images/above_scenes/images/image_34.jpg

I don't think the amount of Americans, some of my family included, who have died for the world's sake is all that funny.

[Cas]

Originally posted by Hålo
You did all elect him with your needlessly complicated election system. Though I agree, that he's just a puppet of the evil Republican party and their thirst for world domination.


I'm going to play Devil's Advocate for Europeans and Americans here... But I'm not starting a political debate, just clearing up a couple of falacies. :p

Firstly, the majority of American's didn't elect Bush! :o

So yes, I agree that the electoral system could be revised; but it was set up at a time when transportation was much more difficult and the majority of you Europeans were under some form of a totalitarian or authoritarian government. :)

Originally posted by MK Reload
The car you use to go farther than you could under any other means. The road you drive that car on.


I'm fairly certain that a German invented the gas powered engine for automobiles and German's had the first major road system (the Autobahn?).

You're probably thinking of Ford who created the first major assembly line for automobiles in 1903.

Pretty certain a few other of your "American created items" are incorrect as well, but I'd have to do some checking. :)

And, I could name one country that has done more for the world than America in every category you mentioned. Ancient Greece. Of course, among the surviving countries, I would say America ranks among the highest as far as world influence. :)

Anyway... With that being said, Happy 4th of July! Go out, get drunk, and party like it's.. err.. 2003?

[Baradiel]

Bah, I did not create this thread to start some political or nationality flame war. Your post can easily lead to flamewars, Reload, and therefore I do not like it (nor the 2nd post) anymore after your first paragraph. I'm itching to respond to it, but I shouldn't. This shouldn't be the place for another meaningless debate about who's good and bad, who's right or wrong, so I hope we can all put those differences of opinion aside and wish a happy 4th of July for all of us. I hope everyone will have a great day. :)

[Brainiacus]

Today was a true July the 4th for me personally... shyte... I'm just sober enough now to type this. Soon I'll be unable to even sit on my chair... hehehe... *flees* :o

[Ðark Knight]

Happy 4th!! :) :up:

[Hålo]

Originally posted by Cas
I'm going to play Devil's Advocate for Europeans and Americans here... But I'm not starting a political debate, just clearing up a couple of falacies. :p

Firstly, the majority of American's didn't elect Bush! :o

Thats why I said needlessly complicated. You vote. The winner in that state gets to win the state. The one with the most states wins. wtf?

*Kicks first-past-the-post system*:D

[Cas]

Nah... It's not the winner with the most states wins. Far from it.

Quick US Government lesson! ;)

There are 538 electoral college votes.

This means that the President needs 270 votes to win the Presidency.

Electoral votes are divided up by population in each state. So California (having the largest population) has somewhere around 54 electoral votes currently. Texas and New York come in the next two slots respectively with just over 30 each.

It wouldn't be a problem if the system had one small change. The percentage of vote by population translats to the number of electoral votes you win for that state. Instead, it's if you win a plurality in the state then you win the entire states electoral votes. This causes candidates to focus on the larger states. If I remember correctly, you can take the presidency with only 9 or 10 states out of the 50.

The problem arises when a candidate barely wins the vote in the larger states and the other candidate wins by a vast disparity in the smaller states giving the winner more electoral college votes but a smaller popular vote.

It was first developed because voting over large areas and tracking millions of votes was unfeasible in the 18th and 19th centuries. Therefore, people in each state would vote for their electoral college representatives who would then travel to the capitol and vote there for the president.

(Actually, I believe the electors were originally decided by the state legislatures whom the people voted for in each state, but changed in the early to mid 1800s.)

As I said, I feel it could now be revised, but it was created in a time when it was practically necessary.

[[HotH]Trennik]

Hector and Moir... disappointing :sour:. You would have to post something negative in a thread dedicated to celebration wouldn't you? If you didn't, I'm sure somebody else would. :mad:

And to think that I avoided such comments in the Canada Day thread, even though I wanted to make them. Such respect is obviously undeserved. Curse me and my morals.

Hector, before you start dissing something, you should try to understand it first. You obviously don't, so go read a book or something. Come back with a valid factual opinion, and post it in another thread. Preferably on another forum (see my sig), since discussions of that nature aren't looked well upon here.

Happy Independance Day America. Today we celebrate what we were, what we are, and what we will be. Today we honor those that made the ultimate sacrifice for those causes. Today, as in all days, we are proud to help those in need, proud to achieve and reach for the stars, proud to hoist our flag high, proud to be American.


O! say can you see by the dawn's early light,
What so proudly we hailed at the twilight's last gleaming,
Whose broad stripes and bright stars through the perilous fight,
O'er the ramparts we watch'd, were so gallantly streaming?
And the Rockets' red glare, the Bombs bursting in air,
Gave proof through the night that our Flag was still there;
O! say does that star-spangled Banner yet wave,
O'er the Land of the free, and the home of the brave?

On the shore dimly seen through the mists of the deep,
Where the foe's haughty host in dread silence reposes,
What is that which the breeze, o'er the towering steep,
As it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses?
Now it catches the gleam of the morning's first beam,
In full glory reflected now shines in the stream,
'Tis the star-spangled banner, O! long may it wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

And where is that band who so vauntingly swore
That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion,
A home and a country, shall leave us no more?
Their blood has washed out their foul footsteps pollution.
No refuge could save the hireling and slave,
From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave,
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave,
O'er the Land of the Free, and the Home of the Brave.

O! thus be it ever when freemen shall stand,
Between their lov'd home, and the war's desolation,
Blest with vict'ry and peace, may the Heav'n rescued land,
Praise the Power that hath made and preserv'd us a nation!
Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
And this be our motto--"In God is our Trust;"
And the star-spangled Banner in triumph shall wave,
O'er the Land of the Free, and the Home of the Brave.

[Hålo]

Hey hey hey....Tren, I didnt start this entire dissing thing. I wish all americans a happy 4th of July. I simply responded my opinion to something someone else brought up.

[[HotH]Trennik]

http://www.smithsonianlegacies.si.edu/photos/38a.jpg

[the Last Lion]

Hey Streak, actually, you're quite wrong with one assumption. Typically, presidential canidates do go after large states, but to a larger degree they go after small states.

The truth is, and this is the reason why the electoral college exists that uneducated "I'm so smart" inDUHviduals don't know, that those in smaller states are proportionally overrepresented.

Why is this good? Well, as you said, you can win it by just carrying those couple large states. This would be an even bigger gap without the current system. This means that Bush and Gore had to go to places like Maine, Rhode Island, Delaware, and a number of other places, instead of focusing on the big boys like California, New York, and Texas.

If we did pure population, a presidential canidate would only have to visit the top key cities. This way, everyone is represented a little instead of just the urban majority.

Because all of the states have at least 3 electoral votes (your number of electoral votes is decided by your number of Senators (2) and your number of Representatives (1 or more depending on population)). If it was purely by population, many states wouldn't even get 1 electoral vote.

Happy 4th all.

[Locarius]

Enjoy your masturbatory celebrations :D

[Cas]

Yeah Lion.. I know most of that already. I just said a quick US Government lesson. :)

[edited to make more readable]

That's why I said that the electoral votes that a president gains per state should be changed to be based on percentage of the popular vote they received. I didn't mean to imply I wanted to do away with the entire electoral college and change the system to be purely based on the popular vote.

Doing this would leave the smaller states (and Washington DC) with their 3 minimum electoral college votes regardless of their actual population. However, when candidates go almost 50/50 in a state, large or small, they receive their portion of the electoral votes from that state rather than receiving all of them if they have the plurality. (Obviously, a little rounding would have to go on for that last vote or two depending on the number of candidates and the percent of the popular vote they received)

I believe that doing this would help the smaller states. Yes, they are overrepresented now and therefore candidates do want to visit them. However, candidates still focus on the largest states because they can get so many votes without as much effort (simply because they can visit one city and get the attention of hundreds of thousands or even millions of people at a rally rather than visiting a smaller state and getting a fraction of that number).

Of course... I would hazard a guess that candidates spend a bit less time in California and Texas simply because those two states in recent history have almost strictly voted Democratic / Republican respectively. But that's just a guess... I'd have to go look up the candidate campaign info for 2000 to see. :p But they still spend time in the larger states that give the 20+ votes and such over the smaller ones for the same reason... They can get more people and (hopefully) more donations for the same effort.

I believe that changing the system to just grant electoral votes would help the smaller states simply for one reason. Smaller states would then be the most electoral votes per person. Candidates would not longer focus on getting the "majority" in the big states. They would be forced to focus on getting the majority in all the states. It would allow a candidate to receive, say, 60% of the vote in Texas and still only get or 20 or 21 of the electoral votes out of the total 34 (I believe it's 34 anyway...).

[ edit done ... hopefully it's simpler to read now :) ]

Anyway... Wow, yeah, that was why I didn't go into all that. ;)

Well yeah.. I'm off to head to a festival and see some fire works.

Happy 4th again all. :) Get off the damned computers. :p

[the Last Lion]

My point was just that the smaller states have proportionally a muuuuuch smaller population than does a big state. There are some cities like LA, Houston, and NY that are bigger population wise than some states ;).

[Cas]

Wow... Rereading my last post would've made almost zero sense to me except for the fact that I know what I was trying to say...

I must've been in a major hurry to get outta the house or something. ;)

[Blazing{TW}]

And most european(MOST not all...) countries are straight spineless and wouldnt be around without the US but like the ***** at us out of jealousy.
And environmental causes are a joke.

But dont respond to me because i was just voicing my opinion.
And we all know any pro american thread ever posted will just turn into a political thread so its doomed from the start so you might as well just delete the thread.

[Maverick]

Happy 4th everyone.

I had fun blowing up a trash can tonight, woohoo! *takes off cowboy hat and runs to mama for some more $$ for fireworks*

[Blazing{TW}]

Those suck mav......get a metal pipe, some black powder, long wick.
;)

[LordBaron]

And if you plan on taking Blazes advice try fishing with those things. Just remember to hold your fuse in place with hot glue from a glue gun and not like my idiot brother tried with wax. The glue will even seal off the hole if you throw it in water.

[Cas]

Originally posted by Blazing{TW}
And most european(MOST not all...) countries are straight spineless and wouldnt be around without the US but like the ***** at us out of jealousy.
And environmental causes are a joke.

But dont respond to me because i was just voicing my opinion.
And we all know any pro american thread ever posted will just turn into a political thread so its doomed from the start so you might as well just delete the thread.

Gee... I wonder why that is?

You know... None of the posts have been flames. Reloads was the only one that could bring up controversy which was why I was quick to point out where he was wrong.

None have even been debates. Explaining to somebody the American electoral college is not disallowed. It's informative. To be a debate it would have to be controversial.

However, your post could definitely start a flame war easily. So delete it. :sour:

[Maverick]

lol Blaze, I don't want to blow off my hand :p That would keep me from accomplishing my many needed activities :eek:

[LordBaron]

thats why you buy a big spindle of fuse and make any length of fuse for your explosives that you want. Not a bad idea to cut off 6 inches first and see how fast the fuse burns. We used to put 3 inches of fuse per explosive and it usually took 5 - 8 seconds to burn down.

[MK Reload]

The term "automobile" implies that the unit is simply self powered. The first vehicle to move under it's own power was invented before the revolutionary war by a Frenchman (steam-powered of course). And I know that Germans invented the first gas powered engine, which is why I never said Americans invented either the idea or the first practical application of that idea. I believe I said that American Ingenuity brought that item to the world, which is a clearly evident fact.

Oh and just for ****s and giggles, Ford may have created the first ASSEMBLY LINE for vehicles, but he still wasn't the first American to mass produce them. The Oldsmobile Curved Dash model 1901 has that honor, being the first car to be produced in large quantities (although nowhere near the 20 million Ford produced).

As far as road's go, I'm pretty sure that Ur had the first recorded ones. But that's absurd, because I am talking about the invention of modern Asphalt. The first use of which was to pave 5th avenue in 1872.

I think it's pretty clear btw, that Ancient Greece could only touch the US in 2 of the 5 areas I mentioned. Technology we clearly have locked, as well as evironmental and scientific. Societal could be argued and they clearly have us beat in politics. If you were going to pick a country that could have influenced the world as much as the US, I would say that there are only 2 (both a distant second). The Roman Empire (including the Holy Roman Empire) and the British Empire.

[MK Reload]

And thanks Trenn, for posting the whole song. Most people are unaware that we sing only the first verse... just once I'd like to hear the whole thing sung at a ballgame.

[Minkas]

Originally posted by MK Reload
The computer you are using to read this; the internet that computer is connected too. The electricity that powers the computer.

My power was out for more than 12 hours yesterday :(

Hope everyone had a great 4th!

[Blazing{TW}]

If you are going to make a "homade firecracker" you should definitely place it very far from you and stay behind something:p

[Cas]

Originally posted by MK Reload
. . .

I believe I did say Ford created the first major assembly line for automobies. But that's irrelevant. If the gas powered engine had not been invented then Ford could not have brought it to the world. You made it sound as if Americans had created all those things. If that's not what you meant, then I apologize.

As far as the the Greeks; they invented / used in quantity a damn lot of stuff we take for granted.

- Modern Plumbing - aquaducts
- Columns and arches for our buildings
- Map locations (Latitude / Longitude - I believe anyway... maybe not)
- Pretty certain they also developed a currency system similar to modern day
- They developed mathematic systems that science is built off today. (One example - Pythagorean Theorem anybody? Pythagoreas was Greek and also developed the musical Octet, as well as the theorem that aids in geometry and trigonometry among other things).
- Modern philosophy

Yes, the Roman Empire influenced us greatly as well. But many things they also took from the Greeks when they invaded and conquered them.

I never denied the United States has influenced the world more than any currently surviving nation. Hell, I agreed with you! But you're comparing a nation that has been around for less than 250 years to a nation that was around for millenia.

*shrug* Take it as you will... If you wish to believe the United States has developed the majority of what you see in the world then so be it.

[edit] Oh.. And for the record, this would be a debate. :rolleyes:

[the Last Lion]

Greeks suck, Turks rule.

[Hålo]

Just one correction - Cas....The Romans were the first to use plumbing as we know it. Although aquaducts existed in Greece before Romulus & Remus, toilets, running hot & cold water and such were used first in the Roman empire.

[Haral]

Streak keeps arguments a little civil...

Hmm...

Okay:

Well I'll tell you what. There isn't anything to fear except failure
and the only way to fail is to not try, because with enough effort anything is possible
- Apos

there was just no way our #4,5,6 and 8 picks could have competed with their #1,2,3,5.
- Apos