Help - Diplomacy Stances.

[Terra Prime]

Greets.

Can someone please catalogue our diplomacy stances (ie beg - state - demand - etc) when we talk to each race. Which stance works best for each race?

Any help will be much appreciated.

Regards.
TP

[Beamup]

Nobody really knows. It seems to be an utterly negligible effect, anyway, so don't worry about it.

[rhyssana]

there was a list somewhere early on, in the readme maybe? not that it's likely to matter, but here it is if you want it:


Cynoid: Be formal, try State./p
Ithkul: Yeah, right/p
Nommo: They don't say, but I get good reactions with Reasonable/p
Raas: Reasonable/Polite/p
Trilarians: Reasonable/p
Evon: Beg/Humble/p
Psilon: Reasonable/p
Grendarl: Reasonable/p
Sakkra: Demand/p
Mekklar: State/p
Human: Reasonable/p
Eoladi: Reasonable/p
Tachidi: State/Declare/p
Imsaeis: Declare/State/p
Silicoid: State/p
Klackon: Argue/State/p
Antarans: You actually think they'll speak to an insect like you?/p/p

(that's from in my copy of the encyclopedia, is where the /p's came from)

-rhyssan

[Terra Prime]

Thanks. Much Appreciated.

:)

[Beamup]

The thing of it is, those are guesses. They have not been tested in any controlled fashion. I tried once for a few days (all tests were done on turn 1 between Senate members), and discovered the following facts:

- In 51 offers to various races, saving and reloading to try all different approaches with each offer, there were few cases (7) where changing tone caused the result to change. There was no trend in these - Declare and Demand might fail with the Meklar one time, and the next everything above Beg would succeed.

- Trying 30 Trade:Econ agreements with the Sakkra (in 30 different games with stock Humans) using Beg, State, Declare, and Demand, Beg and State each got 17 accepted, Declare got 15, and Demand got 16. Note that the Sakkra responding best to a tough approach is one of the "canonical" examples of diplomatic emphasis.

- Modifying the values given for EmphasisModifiers/MissedByModifier in foreignrelations.txt similarly has no perceptible impact on the success rate of diplomacy, even for massively altered values. e.g. apparently setting everything in MissedByModifier to -20 except for the 0 row, and setting that to 20, should make only the preferred emphasis work... it had no such effect. Neither did using 2, 5, or 500 instead of 20.

- The supposed different preferences for the races do not appear anywhere in the spreadsheets. (MissedByModifiers seems to be related, but it doesn't give any base for each race.)

The conclusions I reached from this:
- If these preferences exist, they are hardcoded. This would make them pretty much the only race characteristic that is.
- If these preferences exist, their effect is swamped by the noise.
- Therefore, whether or not they exist, there's no point worrying about it.
- It seems most likely that this was cut and/or does not work.

[BlackHat]

Beamup,

I only wish you had recorded the CB and Diplo ratings before and after each of those offers. Because I wonder if they were changed.

For example, Race A has a high CB (and /or Dilpo) rating with you. You make them an offer with the right emphsis, and they acccept. [and their ratings go up]

On the other hand, Race A has a high CB (and /or Dilpo) rating with you. You make them an offer with the WRONG emphsis. Well you piss them off, and your rattings go down, BUT they are still high enough for them to accept. [You get the agreement, but with lower ratings]

So for this example it would apear that there was no effect for emphsis on the offer. But by checking the CB/Diplo ratings you could see there was a impact.


I have not tested this. So I maybe wrong.

Later,
BlackHat

[Beamup]

Nope, didn't record that because it wasn't what I was testing (because it wasn't how it's been described to work). Could be done, though. If I get a chance in the next couple days, I'll see what I can find out.

[rhyssana]

i realize that they probably don't have any effect. but i had the list laying around and you'd already pointed out that they didn't matter. that's why i said

not that it's likely to matter, but here it is if you want it:

anyway, i wish i remembered where i got it - but i've had it since the game came out and i don't remember anymore... had to've been the strat guide, a review, or something QSI said/posted somewhere. at the time, those would've been my only sources. (doesn't make the list right, just that those were the only places i looked back then) i'm pretty sure it was a widely published list at the time, maybe someone else recognizes it.

so - you'd already answered the intent of the question, i was adding detail to answer the actual text of the question. i didn't intend to imply that it was a better answer than your's - just more complete. :)

-rhyssan