Xeryx's Weapons & Tech Mod V1.0 Ready for Download

[xeryx]

I will be uploading V1.0 to these sites;
Moo3 Guardian (http://www.moo3.at/)
Xeryx's Weapons and Technology Mod Mirror 1 (http://www.moo3.at/mods/link.php?id=93)

Also found at:

Moo3 Mods.com (http://www.moo3mods.com/)
Weapons and Technology Mod Download Mirror 2 (http://www.moo3mods.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=176)

Please do not forget to rate this mod at the sites!

Look for it in the 1.2.5 section, and yes it WILL work with prior versions.

Here is the Read Me
============================================
Xeryx's Weapons and Technology mod. V1.0

First off I want to apologize to anyone who downloaded the first beta patch, I had reordered the Ships weapons for my organizational purposes. Since the AI goes down the list of weapons in order, it screwed up all sorts of things. I fixed this in my tech tables files for my version. I had mistakenly put the older version with my download. Again I apologize.

This mod is a Weapons and Technology improvement mod.

So I have been working on this mod for about 5 weeks now and put on over 150 hrs on it.

The main reason I endeavored on this long journey, I was completely frustrated with the weapons performance (Multifire triggered it). I also despised the way the AI builds ship. It does not use the mods for weapons. Giving the Human player too many advantages. So fiddlefarting around with the tech files lead to an in-depth mod. I KNOW that you will like this mod. The fleet battles are truly intense.

SHIP ENGINES
==============================================
Changed size of warp and system engines. Warp engines 22%HP down to 15% at highest tech. System engines 19% down to 12%HP. This will boost System ships abilities quite a bit.

SENSORS
==============================================
Lowered targeting computer sensors range benefits at the high end, to compensate for the Accuracy bonus they now have.
Cloaking now cost more than 30au, All sensors cost according to benefit.

SHIP WEAPONS
==============================================
The basic weapons are still the same. I only re-ordered a few of them. I did change some of their sizes, and boosted some of the damages. I mainly changed Shield penetrations and armor piercing values. But overall there are the same weapons that you know and love.
I reworked all weapons mods. The only mod that is the same is enveloping. These mods are, the heart of this mod. The weapons mods NOW allow the computer to use all available mods for their intended purposes. You will also find that certain mods maybe only available for certain weapons. I researched fiction and real theory, to come up with some of these ideas. The mass weapons you will find will primarily be you PD weapons for your ships. This is due to the rate of fire and constant damage; the only problem with this is the AI uses them just as well.

Switched Rail Gun to your first mass tech. Gauss cannon is second, Quark cannon is third and the Mass driver is now forth, and Dark Matter projector is last. I changed the order for theoretical reasons. Rail guns and Gauss cannons fire small particles or projectiles. The Quark cannon I improvised a theory of operation. The Mass driver was totally wrong for theory. It is something that would be used to launch space vehicles. I am still contemplating making this a planet-destroying weapon. In the mean time it should do well for bombarding planets :)
I changed the name of the Tacheon beam to Poloran beam for theoretical reasons. It's still the same weapon.

I have done some balancing of the weapons mods. I am not going to list the specifics here. You can always look at the tech descriptions. I have updated them fully.

Some of the ship weapons mods you will find are: Ultra-Fire, Pulsed, Continuous (changed), Overloaded, High Density projectiles, Particle Accelerators, Flux capacitors, Targeting Modules, Armor Piercing (40% instead of 30%), Shield Penetrating (30%), and of course miniaturization (unchanged).

For this mod to be accomplished it took a lot of trial and error. I was satisfied with the way the mods worked. There was just one problem. How do I get the AI to use them, I tried tons and tons of combinations, but no luck. Then one day I read a post by Visage and it explained that the computer would not use mods that increase space. As preposterous as this is, I was dumbfounded by the DUMB programming, I put all my mods at .999 space and sure enough. The AI uses them FULLY and the way they are supposed to be used. So make sure you beef up your ships, as you will no longer out-class the computer in weapons techs. But you can still outsmart it in ship design.

SHIP DF WEAPONS MOUNTS:
=============================================
I looked at Visage's AI improvement mod and after learning that the AI builds many items by going down a list, in order. I decided that reordering the mounts was the only way. It is not the best way; redoing and making new classes of mounts would be the best way. I just didn't want to go there, at this time. So here are the improvements.
Weapons mounts, as they get bigger they get less accurate and have slower firing rates. They can also fire farther and have more damage. Spinal are suppose to be a fixed mount that fires in a (usually) forward firing arc around 45 degrees. With the space they save in gyros, servos and motorized equipment, they can add more power components. In order to make it worth having a Spinal mount you have to get, the farthest range and damage. These have the least accuracy and slowest firing times of all the mounts.

On to the fighters.

Fighters:
==============================================
The fighters were very disappointing to me, and at higher levels of the game, and not very useful. (Did you know that fighters are not counted for planetary bombardment purposes?) So I added two new classes of "fighters" the Bomber and the Heavy bomber. The bombers can now do 1.5x the damage of the equivalent stock weapon. I hated the stock fighter weapons options, I guess, I am too use to moo2. So every fighter weapon now has am improvement mod. Some of the improvements are not as powerful as their ship-mounted brethren. These are definitely an improvement over the old fighter weapon mods. There may be more to come. For now one is more than we had before. Note: I removed the fighter death beam, due to its size. I added in the dearly missed fighter hard beam, Quark cannon, replaced plasma cannon with hellfire cannon, and replaced Mass Driver for Rail Gun. I am experimenting with the lightning field generator, but I have NOT implemented that yet.
Since, the fighters were not quite where I wanted them be, I added ECM and ECCM. They are about the equivalent of level 2.5 ships ECM and eccm.

Missiles:
==============================================
I removed 5 missile classes, each transition to each warhead is 2x the strength. I needed tech level room for the mods.
Missile chassis: Added an ATOS targeting computer, and ECCM black box. Changed some of the attributes of the chassis, mostly damage. Range is not changeable, so I added in accuracy. The small Chassis are more accurate than the larger ones. I also changed the base missile accuracy's. Missile warhead options, added in Nova Cluster. It is basically a MIRV system and has 3 missiles. The damage (as with any multifire) is not reflected on the damage. So when a larger more powerful warhead becomes available the AI will pick that one. I spaced the levels so that there are now 4 levels between the Nova Cluster and the new warhead. The Ai should at least use them a little more. Added in a Standard Missile chassis.


Fire Bases
===============================================
DF base is now first on the list at level 0
Fighter base is level 4
Missile base is now level 8

I Increased the damages, and amounts of fighters and missiles.
I also decreased the fire rate.
So be warned, they are not a wimpy as before and you will not get as many missiles or fighters through their defenses.

Armor
===============================================
Base values have been doubled. Deflection is the same.
I guaranteed all armors.
Shields
=================================================
The same currently, I will balance them later if needed.

Hull Classes:
=================================================
I changed them back to original status for now.
I want to play around with them later, to get the proper costs for the hull sizes.
I moved the Light cruiser to level 4

Other Tech Changes:
==============================================
I did not include my Tech slowdown: 100 turns = 10 levels

I will be working on much more in-depth Tech descriptions to enhance the game. But for now I only changed what I felt was necessary.

I revamped the Taskforce rules to enlarge TF's and have a better mix of ships. This will help with the PD bug.

I also revamped the Military AI file to give better troop ratios. And Build ratios of ships to troops. More ships.
I eased the enemy aggression rating, so if you want it more aggressive just change it back to 70.

There may be some more but I forgot them...
INSTALLATION
==============================================
Just unzip the dataset dir into your moo3 directory.
These files you must keep because of reordering the weapons are the fighterweapons.txt, techtables.txt, wsTechnology and the weapons.txt

AFTER INSTALLATION
YOU MUST START A NEW GAME FOR THE CHANGES TO TAKE EFFECT.

THANKS FOR YOUR PATIENCE.

I MAKE NO CLAIMS TO ANYTHING FOR ANY REASON!!!

I did this just for fun

[Ron_Lugge]

Brilliant idea, making a new thread and then forgetting to link to it.

[emperor_arcite]

Originally posted by Ron_Lugge
Brilliant idea, making a new thread and then forgetting to link to it.

Can you not read? He hasn't uploaded it yet. :rolleyes:

----------------



And xeryx, this looks like a really comprehensive mod, I can't wait to try it out! It almost sounds like a total conversion! :) :up:

[xeryx]

@Ron, At the time I made the thread, I had just uploaded the files. Theye were not posted on the websit yet. For your satisfaction I have added in the thread links. :)

I also added in information on the ships engines space and sensor changes. I forgot to add it in the readme file. I was in a hurry to get it posted. And under the gun.

[0zzyman]

Hey I have the Combat FX and ur mod but I deleted the combat FX fighter.(something) file and I was wondering what does that thing do?? Is it just a description file?

[Ron_Lugge]

Originally posted by emperor_arcite
Can you not read? He hasn't uploaded it yet. :rolleyes:

Wrong links.

I meant a link in the old thread.

[xeryx]

I put the download link and Thread link in my Signature!!!:p

[Ron_Lugge]

You guys really misunderstood me.

I meant he should put a link in the old thread to this thread. took care of it for him now.

Originally posted by 0zzyman
Hey I have the Combat FX and ur mod but I deleted the combat FX fighter.(something) file and I was wondering what does that thing do?? Is it just a description file?

IIRC, the fighter.txt file from CFX was empty data. Either that, or he had stuff in there in the original release, but then got rid of it. Same result. Just use this mods fighter.txt

[xeryx]

Thank you Ron!!!

[0zzyman]

Ok well I am using this mods fighter.txt file and the combats look awesome...just I wish some1 could make a new explosions for when the ships blow up (after changing the ship pics for the better ones.)

[surazal]

One (slightly major) problem with the mod:

I noticed that "Light Cruiser" is a level four tech in the mod; I had to move it back to level zero after finding this out though. The smallest possible size for a colony ship is a Light Cruiser, and not having that technology means not being able to design Colony Ships right off the bat. What makes it worse is that the human player can work around this using the default "Colony Ship" already predesigned, but the AI always generates it's own sets of ships, so it would be unnecessarily crippled by this change, unless the human was honorable of course. :)

Also, it would seem that missile technology isn't immediately available at the beginning of the game either. I'm not sure if that's going to negatively impact the AI at all, because they might try to build I.F.'s anyways. I'm actually going to check into that next game I play (by doing the ol' Multiplayer load trick and looking at the AI ship designs for any weaponless I.F. ships).

[shantar]

I'm with surazal.

I have played a game with the mod (only about 100 turns), and noticed that the AI don't colonized the planets as fast as in a normal game(no weapons mod).

I supose that if the player use the normal tech multiplier (the one by default) this effect isn't very important, because the player gets the new techs very fast, but if there's a tech slow down present, this effect is really big.

As surazal says backing the light cruiser to 0 may solve this.

I like this mod, i think there are some good ideas.

Two things xeryx:

Why is light cruiser tech lvl 4 in your mod?

and

Why you eased the enemy aggression rating?

anything related with the mod or is only your game preferences....

Animo xeryx! lo estas haciendo bien! :up:

[teecee]

xeryx

Help please! I downloaded your mod and installed it. I didn't have missle base available and got an error when I tried to add missles to a ship design.

What the heck did I do wrong?

I'm running v1.25 of the game. Yours was the last mod installed.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

tc

[Ron_Lugge]

IIRC, he has missles raised a couple of tech levels.

[xeryx]

@ Teece: Can you describe your error in more detail. What mods are installed? What missile was it. What mods were on the missile?. What tech level were you at? I need this information to be able to replicate the error. If there is an error then I will fix it. I just need more info. I encountered no errors on this version with missiles.

@ Surazial- I will fix that in the next release. Where this came from, I had enlarged the chassis in my earlier version. I decided to stay with the stock ships for this release. My appologies. Although one benefit maybe that the computer will build other ship, including system ships. All players will have this disadvantage.

Noted ERRORS:
1)The light cruiser is at level 04, No colony ship until discovered.
-Temporary fix: OPEN techtables.txt file with excel and change TL for Hull05 change it to Const_00. Fixed-for V1.1 release

2)Missile ECM is Shown as Missile ECCM. It does give you ECM. It is a wsTechnology.txt. error Specificall an "A" tag typo. Fixed- for V1.1 release
3) Beam Bases lost thier detailed description: The B tag ing the wsString file was deleted. Fixed for V1.1 Release

There are still a couple of typos. I have redone the typos so many times. I guess I am one terrible typist.

Missile base is TL08, Fighter Base is 04. Shield Base 10. You don't have the resources to build al of them at the start of the game. Because I increased the costs of the bases. I also boosted them up. So it's a trade off. Your resources are better off being spent on some system ships to start with. Moo2 was like that...remember?

I eased the agression to make the computer relationships more stable. You have a 30% chance for the agrresion to go up, A 40% chance to stay the same and a 30% chance to decrease relations. Don't worry, you will find the computer will still hold you acountable for your actions!!

[xeryx]

I was looking for BOP's Race mod and he has released V1.1 for Moo 1.2.5 and He has made some very interesting discoveries!! Racial ground combat picks ARE BROKEN!!!!! So go download his mod he also added in a new pick called "Social Order"

Here is the link:
BOP's Racial Picks Mod for MOO3 1.2.5 (http://www.moo3.at/mods/link.php?id=95)

Another bug for them not to fix. They ought to just release the code for us to fix.

[Patton1942]

Originally posted by xeryx
I was looking for BOP's Race mod and he has released V1.1 for Moo 1.2.5 and He has made some very interesting discoveries!! Racial ground combat picks ARE BROKEN!!!!! So go download his mod he also added in a new pick called "Social Order"

Here is the link:
BOP's Racial Picks Mod for MOO3 1.2.5 (http://www.moo3.at/mods/link.php?id=95)

Another bug for them not to fix. They ought to just release the code for us to fix.

first, a question: How does he know the race pics are broken? Are they "broken" before or after he added his own category? My unmodded race pics seem to work fine. My modded race pics seem to work fine (I made it free to pick senate, no senate or random).

Second some errors, oversights and such.

I've been auto running to turn 50 just to try out some techs:
1.) Mass driver still appears as second tech
2.) fighter mass driver appears as FTRMSDVR (or something close to this) on the weapons selection pull down, but on the ship display screen it shows, "bad unicode error" or something close.
3.) laser upgrades still increase space accordingly for ship weapons.

I think thats all I've noticed so far. I'll be playing extensively next week, but this week will be slow.

Xerxes, why don't you email me (if you still have my PM, if not I'll send them to you again) and we can work out a test scedule or something perhaps.

//patton

[rhyssan]

xeryx is saying that the ground combat picks are broken, not the rest of the racial picks system. beamup and others (as well as BoP) have discovered and posted about this potentially huge GC racial pick problem. (strat forums, bug forums) and the issue is that GC racial picks appear to be broken in the released version, that they have no effect on your race's actual ground combat stats. this has nothing to do with anything anyone did with a mod - the game simply appears to not read/use the GC racial picks from the customize race screen.

-rhyssan

[visage]

Originally posted by rhyssan
the ground combat picks are broken, not the rest. beamup and others (as well as BoP) have discovered and posted about this. (strat forums, bug forums) and they're broken in the released version - they have no effect on your race's actual ground combat stats. nothing anyone did with a mod - the game simply doesn't read/use the picks from the customize race screen.

-rhyssan

I haven't yet see them claim this; merely that it *displays* as if they have no effect. Has anyone produced much evidence to say whether they actually fail to have any effect in the game?

[rhyssan]

Originally posted by visage
I haven't yet see them claim this; merely that it *displays* as if they have no effect. Has anyone produced much evidence to say whether they actually fail to have any effect in the game?
i was answering patton's question about xeryx's statement. what i've seen posted is that people have definitely shown the display error, and have ideas for why they feel it to be likely more severe than just display. patton seemed concerned that BoP had broken the racial picks in his mod - that's not the case. i didn't intend to imply that the 'gc picks are broken' statement was a proven fact, just provide some clarifying info on xeryx's statement. (will edit previous post)

-rhyssan

[xeryx]

@ Patton: I suspect a bad install. Make sure you have MY weapons.txt file in there.
Here is a list of the files!
fighterweapons.txt:Must have my version
weaponstable.tx.Must have my version
Techtables.txt:Must have My version
missileinfo:Must have my version
Military ai: Optional
taskforcerules: Optional
wstechnology:Must Have My version

Make sure that you have no other versions of the MUST HAVE files, in ANY moo directory. It is my understanding that Moo looks at all files and it will take the first on it sees as being correct.

MORE BREAKING NEWS!!!
Reguarding the Sensors
My sensors have been hosed since this latest version.
It has affected my pt defense from firing in a timely manner.
Now with that said. I highly recommend that when making ANY task force you put in at least 1 LR ship. This increases canning range as it is based of of your longest range weapon.

I have a fix for alot of you that may not be very experienced at this game. I remember that this change was discussed WAY back. after the first data patch. It increases scanning frequency. I believe I also found some more problems with the spacecombat.txt file. The suppresion effects that enemy fire had on your Sensor Range , and Accuracy was enourmous. All of you that have problems with the AI firing at missiles or fighters. I want you to try this and post your results. The difference for my combat is like night vs. day. I take no claim to fixing anything. But I HOPE all of you experience the DRAMATIC difference in space combat I am enjoying.

First unzip the spacecombat.txt file. You need winrar to do this.
then get out excel or your text editor and change the folowing values:

Row heading |Unengaged|LightEngagement|UnderFire|Stunned
==============================================
Accuracy 0 .05 .25 .4
Sensor Range 0 .05 .15 .25
Speed 0 .05 .20 .5

Then change the Think Delay Table (on bottom of page)
Think Delay Change minimum to 1000000,
and Maximum to 20000000.

Change Tracking Delay Primary Target to: Min 10000000(7 0's)
Max to 9000000(6 0's)

and finally change Tracking delay-Target of opprtunity to .10

This change is so signifigant that I was just about to give up on combat. Until I tried this, Now it's AWESOME.

Remember I make no claims to anything!!! JUST TRY IT.

I will be including this file in my next version of the mod.

Changes today: Taskforce rules, I lowered the number of ships in the rings and pickets. The new AI was overfilling the Tf's This may cause problems, I recomend not using that file for now! Unless you lower them as I will list below:

Co Unicode MinShip MaxShip Pickets EscortMission
RowHeadingsStart
Detach. TSKSIZE0 1 1 0 0 1
Squadron TSKSIZE1 2 6 0 0 1
Flotilla TSKSIZE2 4 12 1 2 1
Wave TSKSIZE3 7 21 2 3 2
Pack TSKSIZE4 10 30 3 4 3
Armada TSKSIZE5 14 42 4 6 4

[Cola]

Good job xeryx....It looks like you already fixed the taskforce.txt I was gona say something to you about that, but your just to fast.:)

Anyway, I'm at tech 21 on turn 205 the PD is working great. But I'm having some slowdowns with the MIRV missiles is it really that every missile volley is 4 x times that of a regular missile volley?

Ohh Yea.. I all most forgot have you try to play a game with the mob center at tech 45 instead of 8 it will bring back a lot of strategy, check it out.;)

[xeryx]

@Cola; That is an interesting idea, or you could make it cost alot more. The mirv actually fire 3 missiles. How are they working for you? It's basically a way to massively miniturize them. It's too bad the AI can't see the x3 multiple.

On a side note;

I am experimenting with trying to get a balance with the ECCM sensors. They are way too powerful. I am doing this to decrease the effective range Multiple of LR and SR weapons.

So I decided to drastically reduce ECCM's scanning benefits. Since the computer can mount as many as 13 ECM 1's on an orbital destroyer. The original benefit is +15% to your range, per sensor. If you add that up, that is a 180% boost to your effective targeting range of your fleet. This is at level one folks. So I knocked it down (and guaranteed it, in the tech tree, so the AI would not use the targeting computer)(did I mention the targeting computer has a targeting bonus in my mod) to about a 3% bonus. Then we have a bonus of 39% best case scenario. This is MUCH more realistic in my opinion. I put a 15% bonus on to the level 5 ECM. But it is bigger. so you get less of them, but I was still able to get a 200% bonus. I am still balancing this.

The coolest thing though is that the Autobuild uses the ECCM on the scouts instead of the Targeting computers which have thier 15% starting bonus. So Give me your input as to what you think about this idea, or what would be the best way to approach balancing this?

The benefit I see , is that the range of combat will be cut by at least half. Making sensors much more valuable. I plan to keep the other sensors less than the power of the ECCM scouts. If it were up to be I would limit it to one sensor of each type per ship. I can't, so this is my idea to balance things. Besides I'm tired of seeing ships shoot all the way across the damn map.

Last night I ran a 200 turn game with BOP's new mod, and sensor changes. I played the humans and they were #1 in the galaxy. That is a first, way to go BOP!!!!

INITIAL TESTS of the sensors appear to work. Ranges are reduced. BUT I NEED WAY MORE TESTING.

The coolest thing I saw: I was attacking a planet, I could see the planet to I launched some bombers. I could not see the ships surrounding the planet (BTW this was at turn 203 with all autobuild ships) as my fighters got closer, they detected a Enemy TF, so I directed the IF TF's to engage that TF. I am still undetected, but they are looking for me. My bombers were acting as scouts. The bombers had better detection range because of the ECCM pods.
Even though I outnumbered them 2 to 1 when I tried to invade, the Planetary bombers , missiles and beams attacked and gave me an ass woopin. AWESOME!!!! It's a good thing the ships I build have better PD than the ones the AI builds:)

I have decided to lower the Firedelay of the PD mount down to 60 or 50% instead of 65%, because it just does not give enough benefit otherwise. I could also change the damage dished out, especially against the Heavy Bombers. I may have made them TOO powerful with the armor mod. I do think that they should be more durable than missiles though.

What are your experiences and opinions on the bombers VS. PD?
Also how do you like the feel of space combat? I doubled the armor base values, to make ships more durable. I think it is much more intense. And you actually have some time to make maneuvers and use tactics. Just my .02

[rhyssan]

Originally posted by xeryx

other sensors less than the power of the ECCM scouts. If it were up to be I would limit it to one sensor of each type per ship.
if you just mean not allowing stacking, you can do that. make it a ShipItem type instead of a ShpMItem type. poof - no more multiples allowed...

-rhyssan

[0zzyman]

c'mon!! I wanna see 1.1!!!

[grinningman]

Originally posted by xeryx

I have a fix for alot of you that may not be very experienced at this game. I remember that this change was discussed WAY back. after the first data patch. It increases scanning frequency. I believe I also found some more problems with the spacecombat.txt file. The suppresion effects that enemy fire had on your Sensor Range , and Accuracy was enourmous. All of you that have problems with the AI firing at missiles or fighters. I want you to try this and post your results. The difference for my combat is like night vs. day. I take no claim to fixing anything. But I HOPE all of you experience the DRAMATIC difference in space combat I am enjoying.

First unzip the spacecombat.txt file. You need winrar to do this.
then get out excel or your text editor and change the folowing values:

Row heading |Unengaged|LightEngagement|UnderFire|Stunned
==============================================
Accuracy 0 .05 .25 .4
Sensor Range 0 .05 .15 .25
Speed 0 .05 .20 .5

Then change the Think Delay Table (on bottom of page)
Think Delay Change minimum to 1000000,
and Maximum to 20000000.

Change Tracking Delay Primary Target to: Min 10000000(7 0's)
Max to 9000000(6 0's)

and finally change Tracking delay-Target of opprtunity to .10

This change is so signifigant that I was just about to give up on combat. Until I tried this, Now it's AWESOME.


Interesting. I've never read about anyone modding this file before, and I've never looked at it before. Can't find anything with search. Would you mind saying why you suggest the changes that you do? What do you think all the tables do? It looks like the "experience" table probably isn't used, because experience for ships isn't in the game. What about the others? In particular, what do you think the "snapshot", "Think delay" and "Tracking delay" values do?

[xeryx]

THANK YOU RYSANN!!!!!! I have been wanting to do this forever. The only bad part is that the AI will not add any weapons! Right?? So that pretty much still leaves us were we are at. FUBARED.

@Grinningman: Maybe I did not explain clearly enough. I am not sure about snapshot. Maybe it takes a screenshot ;)
The other delays are for scanning. The min is the important one, as it will increase frequency of scans. The timedelay for Target of oppurtunity, can help with destroying fighters and missiles if the ship is currently attacking a TF or Planet. Here also smaller is better. Think delay is how fast the AI makes decisions. Here again smaller is better.

The other table is for penalties on you task force in certain situations. It is a penalty of suppression, against your sensors, weapons, and speed. The lower the number (upto 1) means less penalty.

Hope this clears things up:

Lowered build ratios :for Missile, and Flotsam ships and TF's

[Patton1942]

Well, I'm still seeing lots of oddness. Not sure if its just my setup of what, but the mod seems not to have stuck. No time for MoO (just 20 minutes to reinstall mod after clearing out older folders and such) over the past two nights, but tonight I'm going to wipe MoO3, reinstall, repatch, and then Mod and see what happens.

I suppose my only question is has anybody else seen the funky names for weapons? I get a series of characters that almost mean something. Maybe. frtmadvr (fighter mass driver?) and then something that started with AT. Anyway, I'm thinking maybe I have some old mod kicking around in there, mucking things up, hence the clean install.

My other question is, have the mod links been updated with the new TF rules and such, or do I still need to do those manually?

[visage]

Note: 1.15^13 ~= 6.153, not 2.8. :)

[Ron_Lugge]

Originally posted by Patton1942
Well, I'm still seeing lots of oddness. Not sure if its just my setup of what, but the mod seems not to have stuck. No time for MoO (just 20 minutes to reinstall mod after clearing out older folders and such) over the past two nights, but tonight I'm going to wipe MoO3, reinstall, repatch, and then Mod and see what happens.

I suppose my only question is has anybody else seen the funky names for weapons? I get a series of characters that almost mean something. Maybe. frtmadvr (fighter mass driver?) and then something that started with AT. Anyway, I'm thinking maybe I have some old mod kicking around in there, mucking things up, hence the clean install.

My other question is, have the mod links been updated with the new TF rules and such, or do I still need to do those manually?

Sounds like a corrupted wstrings file, to me.

[rhyssan]

Originally posted by Ron_Lugge
Sounds like a corrupted wstrings file, to me.
if it were truly corrupted, you'd probably see a DXSU error. sounds more like some stuff is missing or mislabeled. missing in a wStrings file, or mislabeled either there or in the corresponding spreadsheets file.

-rhyssan

[Ron_Lugge]

Originally posted by rhyssan
if it were truly corrupted, you'd probably see a DXSU error. sounds more like some stuff is missing or mislabeled. missing in a wStrings file, or mislabeled either there or in the corresponding spreadsheets file.

-rhyssan

Bad phrasing, I admit. "Broken" would have been more accurate. Though thinking about it, it could also have been in the techtables.txt...

[rhyssan]

Originally posted by Ron_Lugge
Bad phrasing, I admit. "Broken" would have been more accurate.
:)

Though thinking about it, it could also have been in the techtables.txt...
yeah, that's what i meant by spreadsheet files. there's more than just techtables that provide label references into wStrings files, though it's the primary one...

-rhyssan

[Ron_Lugge]

Originally posted by rhyssan
:)


yeah, that's what i meant by spreadsheet files. there's more than just techtables that provide label references into wStrings files, though it's the primary one...

-rhyssan

Since this is a broken weapon, (IIRC), it will be techtables.

[rhyssan]

Originally posted by Ron_Lugge
Since this is a broken weapon, (IIRC), it will be techtables.
fighter weapon, but still i think you're right. i couldn't remember what all was in the weapon files (and didn't go look), but there are other spreadsheets that reference labels. so i just made the general statement..... (ok, i confess - i've been feeling lazy lately :confused: )

:)
-rhyssan

[Cola]

Hi.. xeryx I'm still messing around with the missiles and I was thinking that maybe the nova cluster upgrade should cost more or be weaken a little bit. As for the heavy bombers I havant try them out in combat yet there still heading towards the front line. I really need to put some more research into the warp drives. The only problem with the text so far is with high energy x-ray laser warhead It's just to long for the tab when your putting them on a ship. So far it's a very good mod.

BTW. ECM and ECCM does have an impact in the game. Onetime a fleet of mind went against a more tech superior fleet and I never saw them but for like 5 secondes in the middle of the fight to fire a few rounds before they were all destoryed. And the enemy remain hidden throughout the entire fight and keep on blasting away with there cannons. So something is happening with ECM & ECCM.:up:

[Ron_Lugge]

Originally posted by Cola
So something is happening with ECM & ECCM.:up:

There are three possibilities: A) he was out of your scanning distance, (Possible, follows theory that they do not currently work), B) You had ECCM and that caused it (Possible, follows theory that ECCM and ECM do the reverse of what they are supposed to do), and C) that ECM and ECCM were at fault, and work (Impossible - ai doesn't use ECM. Or at least, *I've* never seen them use it)

Oh, or D) its the reasonably well-known visibility bug.

[xeryx]

The visibility bug is different than the ECCM. There maybe something related somewhere but nobody knows for sure. There are some people experimentiing with that. ECM and ECCM affect the weapons effective range. I also believe they affect targeting. I plan on testing these more.

Are the rest of you seeing a slowdown using the MIRVS?

I think that I will increase the cost of the mirvs to 2X.

I have not really seen this, but I have 2 higher end systems. So I need to know if your experiencing major slowdowns.

I will probably rename the HIGH ENERGY X-RAY WARHEAD. It is way too long. I'll just change it to one of the others I deleted.

@Patton; It sounds to me like your wstechnology file is missing?

@Visage: Thank you for the formula, that will help me a lot!!!

Do you think cutting down the sensors is a good Idea?
or do you like it the way it i?

I think I am going to cut down the power of the Bomber and Heavy Bomber attacks.

[Ron_Lugge]

Originally posted by xeryx
@Patton; It sounds to me like your wstechnology file is missing?

Nope. i've seen that happen with one of the fighter techs as well - but the rest of the tech descriptions seemed good.

[Patton1942]

One stupid question: the light cruiser on the tech table, which is it? I'm on a friends comp w/o excel so the tables are really hard to read, and I need to change it back to level zero.
Thanks

[xeryx]

I will check out the fighter techs.

Progress on ECCM: Well, the only thing that I can effectively change for the ECCM is size and sensor values. There is NO way to use just one, and fill the leftover space. I have increased the ECCM sizes and dramatically dropped the values. Using the formula that Visage showed. Now because of engine sizes. Def platforms and system ships will always be able to have more sensors. Def. Platforms will have abot 3x the range, and SystemShips 2x the range of starships.
Do you feel that this will be fair?

Other changes to sensor: Made Targeting computers, ShipItem Limit 1 ,and changed to take up 10% of hull space, I also make Cloaking devices to take up 15% of hull space. ECM is now also at 5% HS. Theroretically I could delete ECCM (Targeting computer could take thier place), and delete the recon ships. Then use PD ships in picket duties and use secondary ships as escorts. What do you think about this idea?

Thank you for your posts!
I could use a little more detail, if you find a bug or description error. I helps in tracking it down.

[xeryx]

Description errors;

FIXED:Enveloping Fighter Fusion Cannon "B" tag description.?description. Got deleted in conversion to 1.2.5, Inserted new description.

FIXED:Phasor Beam "B"tag description. No "B" :Missing \ in wstech.

@ Patton: If I remember correctly it is Hull 05

Other Errors: 1st missile tech not guaranteed. Could cause and error in missiles. If you did not get one in tech tree. (Thanks Benevolant despot.)

Changes:
Changed Missile, and Fighter armor values for balancing.

Ok here are the sensor changes. Cloaking will cost 20% Hull space. ECM 6%, I doubled the space for ECCM it ranges from 40 to 120. Range benefits are now from 3% to 25%. It will take alot of ECCMS to get good range multiples. You will not see the ridiculous amounts of ECCM any more.

The key here to keep an advantage on the computer, is to use the biggest hulls for your recon ships in your biggest fleets.

I'm going to go set up a lan game, and play some battles.

I played around with not having recon ships, and it is a viable option. That would be something for version 2.0. I would like your feedback on this idea.

Speaking of feedback, there have been about 250 downloads on this mod. But I have only seen a few people actually post stuff. Come on people how can I improve this thing if I don't get precise feedback....?

[xeryx]

Well all did not go well with the sensor testing?!:cry:
A direct x surface error came up during space combat. So for now the sensor changes listed above will be on hold. I am not sure what caused it. It could have been the percentage changes or the range changes. I played a 400 turn game and got this consistantly.

I will continue to fix this version of the mod. However I am not guaranteeing any drastic changes in the future. I feel that this game is still in need of dire fixing. Until this game is up to par future changes may not be possible. So bear with me. I'm doing the best job that I can withing the small confines of this prison.(The game). I think we ought to petition ATARI to fund more patches. A poll might be a start.

Ok The error must have come from either the taskforce rules file. It was not the tech file. DOnt worry folk it was from changes I was trying.

[Patton1942]

Well, I continue to try to get this mod to work. I must be retarded. I have so far been unable to get this puppy working. Either I get odd messages and bad unicode messages, or (most currently) directX surface unavailable messages. I've never gotten one of these before. They're very annoying, aren't they. I will continue to work on getting it working tommorow. If I still have no luck, I will declare victory and move on.

Sorry I haven't been very usefull.

Oh on a side note: on TF size rules, you are aware that you can't have two designations apply for any given number right? meaning, if you have say, 7 ships, and it fits the designation of flotilla and wave, the game will be very unhappy with you.

Just an observation.

[xeryx]

You can get that damn thing to work!! DON'T you give up on me now!!!

All you have to do is UNZIP the mod to your moo3 (main) directory.

It will put the files where they need to go!!!

"I'm on the road again" so I will not be keeping as close of an eye on here, the next couple of days.

The problem is your :
wstechnology.txt file!!! make sure it is in the following directory, you mileage may vary: Moo3->GameDataSets->Classic_01->DameData->English->wStrings

Thank you for the advice Patton, I did not know that.

[Michael McF]

Using this mod, I have experienced the problem ( twice so far) of no missiles warhead being available as a technology available at the start of a game.

To ensure that I always got it, I modified the first misslile warhead tech to always be selected on startup.

techtables.txt
====
Warhead II TAWrHd02 TBWrHd02 None "Ship, Military, Missile,KEEPTHIS" WarHed02 Warheads Const_00 TFMilSci None InfoMisl <= 0 132

I am sure Xeryx has fixed this for next release, but I thought it might be useful for other users.

Good mod by the way. I have been playing with it (off and on) for last week.

[Patton1942]

Originally posted by xeryx
You can get that damn thing to work!! DON'T you give up on me now!!!

All you have to do is UNZIP the mod to your moo3 (main) directory.

It will put the files where they need to go!!!

"I'm on the road again" so I will not be keeping as close of an eye on here, the next couple of days.

The problem is your :
wstechnology.txt file!!! make sure it is in the following directory, you mileage may vary: Moo3->GameDataSets->Classic_01->DameData->English->wStrings

Thank you for the advice Patton, I did not know that.

Well, I finally got it to work. I don't know what my major malfunction was, but the only think I did differently this time was to NOT unzip all the spreadsheets into the spreadsheets folder. Just the ones that were changed. Very bizzare.

Anyway, it seems to be working fine, and I've made several minor changes to the techtables. I put the Light Cruiser back at zero, and adjusted the others down a few levels to reflect the changes made. I'm on vacation so I've got lots of time to play. ;)

I'll report back later. I'm off.

[nomicro4you]

xeryx, do you think it's safe for me to use your mod with the Invader mod?

I know doing so may wipe out any weapon changes in Invader, but your mod sounds more interesting for combat due to more options for the CPU opponents.

[compiguru]

xeryx, you’re mod sounds great! I’m in the middle of a big game so I can’t test it yet but I will! I do have a question though: Did you really add some new techs (bomber fighters)? If you did then maybe you could add some more. Like why not get rid of some of the mining and bioharvest techs? Later in the game I never have any use for them but since they keep getting ‘invented’ the Roy of course builds them so that I have even more food and minerals to sell. I’m sure it’s the same for other people. I’d rather have some more ship techs!! :D Since ECM and ECCM don’t seem to work you could get rid of those too. Here are some ideas:

1. Light and heavy fighter bombers (already implemented?)
2. A self destruct device for a whole TF that destroys everything within a short range (including the TF of course)
3. A device to increase hull space (similar to the ‘I don’t remember the name’ in Moo2)?
4. A short term engine boost device – drains all power from the weapons and reroutes it to the engines giving the ship 2x the engine speed?
5. A ‘sphere’ weapon exclusively for orbitals (and ships > super dreadnought?) – gives a 360 degree power burst in all directions – not strong enough to destroy ships but good enough for fighters/missiles.
6. A device to compensate for the g forces when accelerating giving the ships a greater system speed (* 1.3?)
7. Devices to increase the effectiveness of planetary defence buildings
8. Tanks for ground combat
9. Artillery for planetary defence (in ground combat)

What do you think? The more techs for ship design the more fun, right ?? :D

[rhyssan]

Originally posted by compiguru
xeryx, you’re mod sounds great! I’m in the middle of a big game so I can’t test it yet but I will! I do have a question though: Did you really add some new techs (bomber fighters)? If you did then maybe you could add some more. Like why not get rid of some of the mining and bioharvest techs? Later in the game I never have any use for them but since they keep getting ‘invented’ the Roy of course builds them so that I have even more food and minerals to sell.
you (xeryx or anyone) can add more techs without getting rid of existing ones. and it's far safer to do so - the AI seems to not build up as much surplus as a human player. the later improvements might be ok to do without (though if you miss an earlier one, you're stuck til you get to the later one), but the early ones are quite critical.

the only reason to take them out entirely is if you don't have the money to build them everywhere. but if you have tons of surplus, you don't have money issues. so i'm not sure why you want to get rid of them... ??

Originally posted by compiguru

1. Light and heavy fighter bombers (already implemented?)
2. A self destruct device for a whole TF that destroys everything within a short range (including the TF of course)
3. A device to increase hull space (similar to the ‘I don’t remember the name’ in Moo2)?
4. A short term engine boost device – drains all power from the weapons and reroutes it to the engines giving the ship 2x the engine speed?
5. A ‘sphere’ weapon exclusively for orbitals (and ships > super dreadnought?) – gives a 360 degree power burst in all directions – not strong enough to destroy ships but good enough for fighters/missiles.
6. A device to compensate for the g forces when accelerating giving the ships a greater system speed (* 1.3?)
7. Devices to increase the effectiveness of planetary defence buildings
8. Tanks for ground combat
9. Artillery for planetary defence (in ground combat)
2 might be possible, but i'm not sure you can actually destroy the TF. (ie, you can make it have 0 or close to 0 range, but i dunno if the game would check the detonating TF for damage)

3 there isn't any way to get it exactly the way it was in moo2, but there are a 2-3 ways to get the same basic effect. check the monthly smyposium thread for ship miniaturization - that seems to be the most popular way to do it. trouble is, i don't think the AI will use it - not sure.

4, 6 can't be done. the only thing that can affect ship speed is an engine, and you can only have 1 engine of each type. you can add new engine types, but that will only make the drop-down list for choosing them even more of a pain to scroll through.

5 would be strictly a graphics effect, if i understand your suggestion correctly. you might check the combat FX mod (strictly graphics) - velli's probably already done one.

7 might be possible. but i don't think so.

8 i think that's what 'Mobile' is already, but in any case it would be an interesting piece of modding to make sure you got all the places you needed to covered. my guess would be that some table (of all the ones you'd have to touch to add a new GC unit) has a fixed number of rows (or columns, whichever was critical at the time), making it impossible to have them actually function in the game. but that's just my pessimistic observation on the limited modability of the game...

9 if this is a new GC unit, see comment above. if it's a building, it can't be done (buildings only participate in GC by being targets for collateral damage).

-rhyssan

[compiguru]

Originally posted by rhyssan
the only reason to take them out entirely is if you don't have the money to build them everywhere. but if you have tons of surplus, you don't have money issues. so i'm not sure why you want to get rid of them... ??

4, 6 can't be done. the only thing that can affect ship speed is an engine, and you can only have 1 engine of each type. you can add new engine types, but that will only make the drop-down list for choosing them even more of a pain to scroll through.

5 would be strictly a graphics effect, if i understand your suggestion correctly. you might check the combat FX mod (strictly graphics) - velli's probably already done one.

7 might be possible. but i don't think so.
-rhyssan

I’m sorry, I was under the impression that 50 levels of tech was the maximum and that all the slots have been assigned a tech. Therefore in order to implement a new tech I thought one had to get rid of some useless techs? Seems that I was mistaken. Oops ;)

5 (Sphere explosion): That wasn’t meant as an sole graphic effect – at least I don’t think so. The sphere is supposed to be a weapon that damages everything all around it – not only in one direction (like a DF weapon).

4 (short term engine speed boost) + 6 (increase engine speed): Can’t one add a (new + modded) special device (same type as troop pod, etc.) to a ship that does something like enginespeed *= 1.3?

7 (increase effectivness of plan. def. build.): Why isn’t it possible?

Well, as far as the other points are concerned, they were just ideas – maybe xeryx will get some new ideas out of them. Or maybe he even decides to implement one or two of mine :D

[Patton1942]

2 things:
1.) Battlepods appear in the TECH Charts, but they aren't in the game. IIRC, they increased hull capacity by something like 20%. I'm not really sure, I didn't really look. Presumably, they didn't work out, or the AI just refused to use them. Either way, they were programmed, but not used.
2.) I believe that you could add unlimited TECH's to the tree, but they would have to be 00 level techs. This is just an assumption, but the way the TECH matrix displays 00 level techs (pre1, pre2, etc) this seems to make sence.
You might be able to add unlimited techs to any given level, but the chances of ever seeing it would decrease proportionally. This is also an assumption, but it seems to make sence to me.

But, I'm just getting into modding myself.

RE: X's mod: I changed the Shield Pierching Neutron Blaster into an Auto Blaster (like MoO Prime). I just C/P the ultra fire bonus's from the Guass cannon (IIRC) and updated the WStrings file. It seems to work fine.

I also "fixed" the TFrules spreadsheet. I left the max ships alone, and just made the min ships one more than the previous max. I also changed the recon ring (or whatever it's called) requirements down to 2 for each, except for the 2 largest, which have 3 and 4 respectively. Since sensors don't seem to work, this seemed to make sence to me.

I'm playing with it now *finally* and its been fun so far. Not sure what was so wrong, just lots of stupid issues, like the game not allowing me to create new saves (but autosave worked fine), or the changes not holding (everying from player flags to the mod itself.)

Anyway, those are the changes I've made so far. I would love it if Xerxys would include the Auto Blaster into the final version. Call in homage to MoO Prime ;)

[Ron_Lugge]

Originally posted by Patton1942
2 things:
1.) Battlepods appear in the TECH Charts, but they aren't in the game

That because they are in a table that was marked as "Dead" - stuff they wanted to add, but didn't (for whatever reason), and yet had still written out the spreadsheets for.

[rhyssan]

Originally posted by compiguru
I’m sorry, I was under the impression that 50 levels of tech was the maximum and that all the slots have been assigned a tech. Therefore in order to implement a new tech I thought one had to get rid of some useless techs? Seems that I was mistaken. Oops ;)
there are only 50 levels, but if you look at your matrix sometime you'll notice that there's no limit to how many techs can be at any 1 level.

5 (Sphere explosion): That wasn’t meant as an sole graphic effect – at least I don’t think so. The sphere is supposed to be a weapon that damages everything all around it – not only in one direction (like a DF weapon).
you can't damage more than one target, but the target is a TF so pretty much every weapon is a spherical weapon. (i realize we could argue technicalities here, but in-game, the effects are the same since anything short of a destroyed ship gets cured at the end of the combat)

4 (short term engine speed boost) + 6 (increase engine speed): Can’t one add a (new + modded) special device (same type as troop pod, etc.) to a ship that does something like enginespeed *= 1.3?
you can add it. doesn't have any effect. that's why i said the only thing that can affect speed is an engine. you can make some new engines (to be realistic with the "it works like a device on an existing engine", you'd have to add a new version of every engine. since there are already 10 engines, you'd add 10 more engines for each such device you want. not really worth it... if you want to just stick some extra engines in there, fine - but that's not what you asked.)

anything that shows up in the "specials" box, such as colony pod, troop pod, etc., cannot modify the ship's speed. period. the game is very choosy about where it will allow a modifier, and in fact it's very picky about how you can use each modifier. (sometimes you can only assign to them, sometimes you have to multiply, sometimes you can only add. that's not to say you can't type it and have the game run. but if you test your work, you'll often find that it's treating that *= as a +=, or that it's ignoring your modifier completely.)

7 (increase effectivness of plan. def. build.): Why isn’t it possible?
there are no existing techs that modify planetary buildings (like astro university, planetary commodities market, planetary shield generator), and the way you normally specify where a built improvement should be placed has no obvious corollary for a planetary building. so i don't think a method to specify it exists. you could add an achievement (a tech you don't have to build anywhere to get the benefits from) that would improve all your planetary defenses everywhere - that might work. depends on how you want to improve them - i bet most modifiers that go into planetary defense buildings won't work in an achievement tech. but some might.

Well, as far as the other points are concerned, they were just ideas – maybe xeryx will get some new ideas out of them. Or maybe he even decides to implement one or two of mine :D
i'm not criticizing you or your ideas - i like to see new ideas! i'm just telling you which ones will/won't/might be possible. in the meantime, you can go come up with more... :D

-rhyssan

[rhyssan]

Originally posted by Patton1942
2 things:
1.) Battlepods appear in the TECH Charts, but they aren't in the game. IIRC, they increased hull capacity by something like 20%. I'm not really sure, I didn't really look. Presumably, they didn't work out, or the AI just refused to use them. Either way, they were programmed, but not used.
they won't work as written in techtables, but you can get a similar effect 3 (or more?) different ways.

ship miniaturization: add a special item that multiplies Unispace by < 1. there's an example in the stickied symposium (http://www.ina-community.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=306709) thread basically making everything in the ship take less space with a special item that has "Unispace*=-0.09" as a modifier.
pod ships: make a new hull option (like system ship, orbital, starship) that has more space. problem here is if you wanted to have multiple levels, you'll end up with a bunch of combinations - for the next level, you have to make a new hull option for each of the 1st level ones. and they should stack, so you get system pod ship, pod orbital, pod starship, level 1 system pod ship, level 1 pod orbital, level 1 pod starship, level 2....
extra closets: add a special item that has "Unispace = -50" as a modifier. that gives you an extra 50 space (constant, rather than varying by ship size).

all of those are similar to battle pods, but the problem with battle pods is that there are only 2 places where ShpCpcty will be read and used. a hull can assign it, and a hull option can modify it. a special can't touch it. so basically, the ship's capacity (as shown on the design screen with a fill-bar at the lower right) can only be changed by items that go into those 2 drop-down lists at the upper left. you can add items to those lists, but that's it... (the pod ship method does this - adds items to the hull option drop-down)

specials can make more room (as the other 2 methods show), but are somewhat confusing to a player because you can't see exactly how much space you have left anymore (since the bar doesn't get longer, just takes more to fill it).

2.) I believe that you could add unlimited TECH's to the tree, but they would have to be 00 level techs. This is just an assumption, but the way the TECH matrix displays 00 level techs (pre1, pre2, etc) this seems to make sence.
You might be able to add unlimited techs to any given level, but the chances of ever seeing it would decrease proportionally. This is also an assumption, but it seems to make sence to me.
nope. in fact, it can cause problems to add stuff to level 0 (though that only happened to me once, so it might've been a fluke). you can add as many techs as you want, anywhere in the matrix you want them. it doesn't really have any effect on how likely you are to see them: most races have a base chance of 66% (in 1.2.5) to discover any particular tech. your creativity pick affects that percentage, and ithkul and NO have higher chances. also, you can steal or trade for techs, so that percent chance to discover doesn't have to be very important at all.

or the changes not holding (everying from player flags to the mod itself.)
this is a long shot, but do you have multiple copies of any of the extracted files? i got weird behavior before i learned that you can only have one copy of its idea of a data file extracted, no matter what you name it or where you hide it (inside your main moo3 directory, that is). once i moved out all my slightly differing versions, it stabilized to always showing the same behavior. (i'd "hidden" them by putting them in different folders, and/or by changing the filenames. but the game reads everything under your main moo3 folder, and if the contents happen to look like a data file it recognizes, it uses it as input...) anyway, something about the way you phrased that triggered this memory - maybe you already knew to keep all extra copies elsewhere :). (at the time, it seemed random which piece of which file it happened to use - seemed to be a mishmash of the different versions, or maybe i changed the file or folder names so that it used different copies each time i started the game... long time ago - don't remember)

-rhyssan

[rhyssan]

Originally posted by Ron_Lugge
That because they are in a table that was marked as "Dead" - stuff they wanted to add, but didn't (for whatever reason), and yet had still written out the spreadsheets for.
more correctly, stuff they couldn't get working. as written, none of the ones i've tried work.

-rhyssan

[xeryx]

What a week at work?!:bulb:
Being on the road four days a week sure does get old!!

Patton, I'm glad to here that you got it working. I think you were right on the taskforce rules. I think I had a duplicate number in more than one taskforce. Thanks, man!!!

Thank you guys for posting, I have been away and haven't had time to look at the boards.

The work I have done on v1.1 is lowering down the missile damages by about 1/3. I toned down the bombers and heavy bombers too (reduced damage multipliers). @Ron, are you still having issues with the bombers?

I have been slowly but surely (and don't call me Shirley....) working on some tech descriptions.

Here are some questions I have for you;

1) Do you like the engine ratios? For the Warp and System? (BTW) I increased system engine costs, they were WAY too cheap.

2) Are the missiles working correctly in your opinion? Do they have enough oomph? Are they causing system slowdowns? Have your PD's been adequately destroying them?

3) Same as above except for fighters.

4)Do you like ION cannons, or should they be replaced?

5)Is the AI in space combat fighting better?

6)Do the planets seem harder enough to take?

That's good for now.

[rhyssan]

i've been working (for over 2 days, and can't finish today but should get back to it and be able to finish tomorrow) on merging your wsTechnology with mine. i've got comments on spelling/grammar and duplicated tags (so you can remove one set) for you, if you want to pm me with where to send them.

(i knew they were a work in-progress, but it was gonna be a huge job to merge your's into mine no matter how i sliced it, and i wanted to actually try some of the stuff and be able to see correct numbers in the design screen. one overall suggestion, instead of putting new things "where they might go if they'd been added originally", put anything completely new at the bottom of the file. makes it much easier on others who have to merge...)

-rhyssan

[xeryx]

It is much easier, but it should go to the top. Because if there is a duplicate. It takes the first one. I really did not understand why your merging mine and yours, can you explain? I have fixed quite a few things in there. PM me back or email me with the file.

[rhyssan]

top's fine - as long as it's all together and at one or the other it's a great help :).

thanks,
-rhyssan

[nomicro4you]

xeryx, I noted that a new fan data patch file is up on moo3mods today:

http://www.moo3mods.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=viewdownload&cid=47

Here's some features that sounded like they would complement your mod well:


5) Switched the order of interceptors and SCF’s. This will force the AI to prefer interceptors over SCF’s when designing ships.

6) Made the bridge, life support, and crew quarters Antaran techs. These techs are nonfunctional, and only add clutter to ship designs.

7) Set IF/CV autodesign to 30% max system speed. (this should make the AI build smarter ships.)

9) Fixed the display bug for missiles. It now correctly displays the recharge rate of all missiles chassis.

10) Altered autodesign for recon ships. The auto design feature will now build recon ship identical to long range attack ships. This is because visual detection is based on DF weapon range. LR ships use max DF range available at design. This also makes recon ship able to dish out damage, alleviating another exploit that players use in mid to late game.


Do you think a combined version of your mod and this mod would be useful? Also, if I wanted to merge those features with your mod manually, is that a fairly simple task, as in copying sections from one spreadsheet to another, or do you think the changes are spread out among multiple files?

[rhyssan]

Originally posted by nomicro4you

Do you think a combined version of your mod and this mod would be useful? Also, if I wanted to merge those features with your mod manually, is that a fairly simple task, as in copying sections from one spreadsheet to another, or do you think the changes are spread out among multiple files?
5 isn't really useful, since xeryx has more fighter types. in xeryx's mod, the AI will prefer the heaviest fighter. if you want to switch some, you'll have to reverse the order of all of them. but presumably xeryx has them in the order he does for a reason, so switching it to make interceptors the most preferred seems wrong...

6 an easy edit, and nice to get rid of the clutter in the ship design screen.

7 another easy edit, and if you like to lower your system speeds in order to fit more weapons on, you should probably do this to make the AI ships more competitive. or even lower, if you're one of those "system speed 1" people for your IF/carriers.

9 easy edit, and imho xeryx should do it in the next published version of the mod. (i did it when merging his mod into my play-space)

10 xeryx believes that sensors work, and thus there's no reason to make this change. (at least, i assume you do, since you didn't remove them the way the fan-fix does)

for the most part, you won't need to copy stuff around - you'll be changing or adding values. just make sure you don't affect the tabs or blank spaces when you're making edits and you should be fine. do you need to know where/how to make these edits, or do you already know the 3 files needed for these?

-rhyssan

[xeryx]

I have been doing alot in my personal life and haven't had time this last weekend to really do much with the mod. On a personal note I have been getting my costume ready for the Scottish fesival in Colo. There is some really cool stuff out there if any of you are interested. On another side note when I release 1.1 that will probably be the end of my modding, untill moo3 is fixed fully. I'm going back to playing Space empires 4. The game isn't as graphically exciting but it is more versitile. If you haven't played it, you owe it to yourself to give it a try. There is a great Babylon 5, and Star trek mod for it. The best thing about it is that Malfadore Machinations are gamers themselves and they are not corrupted by the all mighty $$$. They still continue to update the game and it's over 2 years old. NOW THAT"S CUSTOMER SUPPORT :p

Plus UFO:Aftermath will be out in OCTOBER [http://www.ufo-aftermath.com/pages/headquarters.html]! So I think, unless Moo3 really opens up thier code for modding, or they REALLY fix the game and deliver on thier promises. I will be through with ALL ATARI products. Sorry if this news disapoints any of you but you know who to blame.

I will continue my fixes for 1.1. After that, have at it, with all your merging of files or what ever you want to do. Just give me a little credit and all is good. I should be able to get 1.1 done by this weekend HOPEFULLY. I will be heading back out on the road.

Rysann has been helping me on the wstechnology file. Thank you Rysann. Your hard work is duely noted. Thank you again for keeping an eye on the post for me! (BTW Have you sent me the updated version? I couldn't find it?)

Thank you for everyones support. And if you want to see if sensors work. Take the fighter eccm and ecm and give them a larger boost, then run a battle. The truth is out there!!

I was sure hoping for more balancing feedback, but oh well.

Maybe you all of you can petition the court to include my mod in thier next "DATA" patches.

[nomicro4you]

Originally posted by rhyssan
for the most part, you won't need to copy stuff around - you'll be changing or adding values. just make sure you don't affect the tabs or blank spaces when you're making edits and you should be fine. do you need to know where/how to make these edits, or do you already know the 3 files needed for these?
-rhyssan

Thanks for the input, Rhyssan. I probably won't go through the trouble to combine the mods together. I just wanted to see if there was any overlap in the ideas being implemented.

Also, another question about this mod: I started a new game and found the default ships designs you start with (Orbitals, Hawk Defense ship) are still equiped with mass drivers.

I thought the mass driver tech would not be available until higher in the technology ladder? You can build these ship designs that already have mass drivers, but you cannot include mass drivers into new designs.

Should I remove these ship designs from the ships.mod spreadsheet? Or is there some way to modify the designs to include lasers instead of the mass drivers?

Or do the mass drivers you are equiped with act like normal mass drivers and will not throw the game out of balance?

[rhyssan]

Originally posted by xeryx

Rysann has been helping me on the wstechnology file. Thank you Rysann. Your hard work is duely noted. Thank you again for keeping an eye on the post for me! (BTW Have you sent me the updated version? I couldn't find it?)
yeah - i emailed my comments to your hotmail acct. didn't send you the whole file or anything, just the stuff i had comments on. that ought to help with the size quite a bit :). also sent you a couple of quick notes after - one with a question and the next one with a "never mind - i had it backwards" :). so you can just skim those 2 quickly, i don't remember anything else important in them.

Originally posted by nomicro4you
Thanks for the input, Rhyssan. I probably won't go through the trouble to combine the mods together. I just wanted to see if there was any overlap in the ideas being implemented.
ok, but they really are easy to do. and the fix for getting the reload cycle times to display correctly is definitely a nice one to have... if you want copies of the 3 "fixed" files, just pm me with an email addr. (since i already did them for myself :) )

Also, another question about this mod: I started a new game and found the default ships designs you start with (Orbitals, Hawk Defense ship) are still equiped with mass drivers.

I thought the mass driver tech would not be available until higher in the technology ladder? You can build these ship designs that already have mass drivers, but you cannot include mass drivers into new designs.

Should I remove these ship designs from the ships.mod spreadsheet? Or is there some way to modify the designs to include lasers instead of the mass drivers?

Or do the mass drivers you are equiped with act like normal mass drivers and will not throw the game out of balance?
they won't throw the game out of balance - all empires have the same ships to start with (except the NO, and they're probably legal for them). as you noted, you can build more of them, but you can't make your own design with mass drivers until you've researched them. since those are both system-bound ships, the AI won't build up a mass of them to send at you :), and you can't cheat against them that way either. so no big deal.

also, the AI starts busily creating new designs very quickly (i've heard), so they won't build up a bunch of them for you to face in your turn 5 invasions, either ;).

-rhyssan

[theBlind]

[i]Originally posted by
2.) fighter mass driver appears as FTRMSDVR (or something close to this) on the weapons selection pull down, but on the ship display screen it shows, "bad unicode error" or something close.

//patton [/B]
I get this as well. Instead of what i think (based on rounds) should be some Fighter Laser mod, the tech is called TAFCNLSR, Level 4 and the description is #TBFCNLSR#
I also got this error with a few other fighter techs after using the mod, but I didn´t write them down (I stil have the savegame, so tell if I should write them down.

[Patton1942]

Originally posted by theBlind
I get this as well. Instead of what i think (based on rounds) should be some Fighter Laser mod, the tech is called TAFCNLSR, Level 4 and the description is #TBFCNLSR#
I also got this error with a few other fighter techs after using the mod, but I didn´t write them down (I stil have the savegame, so tell if I should write them down.

Actually, I'm pretty sure its because I didn't copy / had a corrupted copy of the wstrings file (wstechnology, IIRC). Try copying just that file into gamedatasets/common/gamedata/english/WStrings (IIRC, not sure about the path).

[xeryx]

Ill double check the fighter weapons.
I have completed the fixes, and most of the descriptions I wanted to change.

My appologies for the lack of posts. My technical expertise has been keeping me extremely busy, and I had to go to some technical schools for some new traning. I have barely had any time to even touch the computer for personal use.

Hopefully this week I can finish verifying the changes. and get that thing posted. It has been two week since I even looked at the files. So i'll have to figure out were I left off.

As far as the description errors that wont effect the weapon.

[2ndACR]

Any time estimate on release for your mod. Just curious. I understand the lack of time, i'm self employed. Thanks keep up the great work.

[Awsric Armitage]

I tried to attack a planet with a Fighter Base and the base never launched against me.I've never seen this happen before but maybe you can let me know if somehow the mod could have caused it. The planet shows that it has a base and the fighters I have seen as fueling and also as in bay. I have seen a beam base fire at me at a different time and place but as of yet turn 180+ I have not seen a planet launch fighters at me. I can launch just fine. Very confusing. Any suggestions as to the cause? i have checked for conflicting files and could not find any? suggestions? I really hope this is isolated because I love the Mod, It was the last one added. Possible conflicts? I tried reinstalling your Mod and replaying the same encounter and same thing? Stumped? Assuming its my problem cause no other posts concerning? What to check? I'd really like to finish this game but not with that handicap.

[xeryx]

It is probably the mod, I noticed this too. Just lower the number of fighters. I think because of the numbers they take longer to refuel. Well it's nice to be recieving feedback. Thank you

[Awsric Armitage]

I like the Mod like I said before but I'm trying to tweak it a little to make sure it works as intended. I sent you a pm earlier but I guess you were busy with your real job so i explored other avenues. I had an unrelated issue with Bard of Prey's Planetary Specials Thriving Ecosystem and while I had his ear(so to speak) I asked if he could help out. What follows is his reply regarding the fighter base issues i was experiencing.

Hmm... I've never noticed that, but I also haven't played very much recently. You might try contacting Xeryx directly, as it could be an issue with his mod (if it made changes to fighter weapons and/or chassis, or made changes to the fighter bases themselves, it might have broken something). In particlular, I had a look at his TechTables.txt file, and noticed at least one potentially critical problem with fighter bases. The Fighter Base uses System Control Fighters (he's renamed them to Heavy Fighters, but that's not the problem). In this mod, he's increased the base tech level of the Fighter Base to 4, but increased the level of the Heavy Fighter to 8, and removed the KEEPTHIS tag that made sure it was always available. In short, the most likely explanation is that your opponent has developed (and built) the Fighter Base, but either hasn't researched the fighters for it yet, or didn't get them in its tech tree at all.
Assuming that this is the only problem, you can probably fix it yourself by opening up the TechTables.txt file and making a couple of simple changes. First, raise the value in the Field_Dependencies column for the Fighter Base (I've got it at line 408 in Excel) from Const_04 to Const_10 or higher (alternately, you could lower the level of the Heavy Fighter Chassis to Const_02 or lower). Second, in the Sort_Tag column for the Heavy Fighter Chassis (line 296)(was aroung line 336 in mine), add the following: ", KEEPTHIS". Don't include the extra quotes, but do make sure to include the leading comma. You will have to start a new game for the changes to take effect.
Either way, you still might want to contact Xeryx. For one thing, I've got version 1.0 of his mod, but I don't know for sure if that's the latest version (nor am I sure that this is the only problem with the fighter bases). For another, even if the fix works, he'd likely want to know about the problem (and the fix). I believe he's registered at ATMOO, but you can probably get ahold of him at MOO3Mods.com if you're registered there as well (or he might give an e-mail address in the readme file for the mod).
Good luck. :)

With that information I changed the Fighter Base from Consrt_4 to Const_10 and used the name Heavy Fighter Chassis instead of SpaControl Fighter just in case the name had anything to do with it. I also made the LC hull available for the AI as per above posts so my AI opponents are not crippled at the begining of the colonization race. I'm currently running a game with the new changes to the TechTables.Txt and we will see what happens. Currently at turn 95+ but have not come across an opportunity to attack a fighter base yet but I have seen/engaged CV TFs so I think the above changes should work. I believe the problem I was seeing (The Fighter Bases showing a fueling Status for about 2-2.5min then InBay for a couple seconds and back to fueling) probably was the result of the Fighter Bases being built by the AI before the Heavy Fighter Chassis was available. So when the AI tried to launch from that base it had no fighters. I do not know this for a certainty but it seems possible that the problem pre-fix may only affect bases built before the Heavy Fighter Chassis discovery as I stopped playing those games at that point and tried to track down the cause. Also will the bases automatically be upgraded with Bombers and Hvy Bombers when they are discovered or will it remain capped at Hvy Fighters? I guess I will have my answer to that one soon enough. I was just thinking that if the fighters used are progressive with the Tech advances then setting the Fighter Base to Interceptors to start with could also work but only if the fighters are upgraded in Chassis type with Tech advances. This would allow the Fighter base Tech to remain at Const_4 instead of Const_10 as it would use int type first then progress on to heavy variants as they are discovered. Personally I do not want to lower the Hvy Fighter to Const_02 and have it available to everyone as I believe one this is way to early balance wise and two if you do not have Hvy Fighters in your Tech Tree it would not be catastrophic if the bases are set to int to start with(if that will work)so changing the Fighter Base to Const_10 is the better choice IMHO. Also for game play balance the Fighter Base being a little later is better especially if it gets beefed up with more fighters. I'm looking forward to seeing the other tech changes with this Mod as I have not looked at them yet because I didn't want the spoiler of knowing before hand.

I apologize for cross posting by creating a new thread about this topic and I'm going there to try and post a link to here. I did not know for sure if you were coming back or not according to your earlier post about letting others take over the Mod if I read correctly. I also wanted to get a quick response as this is buried pretty deep ih this thread. SORRY if this frustrated anyone. I will post later after playing the game some more with the changes/fixes.

[Awsric Armitage]

Well it was turn 131 and I finally found an opportunity to attack a planet with a fighter base. This planet also had a beam base so it was easy to test if detection had anything to do with the fighter base not launching as if the beam base can fire at my attacking TF then the fighters should be able to launch as well. No luck with the above changes(Fighter Base Const_10 from Const_4 and name Heavy Fighter Chassis instead of SpaCon) as the beam base fired repeatedly and the fighter base went from fueling to inbay and back to fueling again. So obviously detection and the tech lvl conflict were not the cause of the no launch problem, although I'm not certain about the later not causing a conflict with having the base before the fighters. I'm next going to try reducing the #launched field as Xeryx mentioned to find a number that works and also changed another field from SpaConFB to HeavyFighterFB in the Fighter Base line. I would appreciate it if anyone else besides Xeryx and myself who have seen this problem would post with details as this could narrow the search for the cause if we knew what else had already been tried. I seem to remember reading somewhere in a post that someone was seeing problems with fighters or missles over a certain number in a single launcher/line and had to split the number between multiple launchers so maybe that is what is occuring here as well. Perhaps there is a max# per launcher hard-coded somewhere; if so this would be good to know. Sorry for the double post but after 3 days of inactivity in this thread I didn't think anyone would mind. I'll post with the results of the new changes(lowering the #launched = field and changing the name from SpaConFB to HeavyFighterFB field changes). Also @Xeryx did lowering the #launched field work for you and if so what # did you lower it to?

[VorkLepel]

I like this mod. Waiting for v1.1.

[Awsric Armitage]

Curently have Fighter Bases set to Tech level 10 with Heavy Fighter using Xeryx's Weapons Mod 1.0 and launching 125 at a time any more I have not tested yet. You have to set the Fighter Base Tech after the Fighter Tech it references or the A.I. can create empty Bases that will not launch. I ran tests at 99, 100, 101 and 125 fighters per base; anymore and I think we are getting silly. Tying the fighterbase launch number to another multiplier theoritically might be possible by entering a formula in the number launched field. I just do not know what formula will give me an appropriate number. I am thinking something like current population*number launched (constant integer)*#Mil Deas(or capacity enhancements) as a starting point. I just do not know what to call these different things to make the code recognize and generate a number. I 'll have another look at the spreadsheets files and see if there are any variable names their that are already being used in other parts of the game and continue from their. If anyone has any insights or have already tried a few things associated with this let me know by posting please. This post will also be posted in the Modding Fighter Bases forum.

[compiguru]

@Awsric Armitage

I like what you are trying to do (number of fighters depends on pop and mil dea's)! I hope it works out. If it works for fighter bases could you then do it for missile bases too?

@ xeryx
Are you still there? Will there be a version 1.1? I don't know about other people but I'm just waiting for the next version because 1.0 sounds a little buggy. How about it, are you still working on it and will you implement the changes made by Awsric Armitage?

Thanks a bunch for this great effort :up:

[Awsric Armitage]

Yea. It just makes more sense that way with the fighter bases. Don't be afraid to try out his Mod though as the only real bug I found was the fighter base tech lvl and the other discusions are more about improvements to his weapons Mod for the next release version. Xeryx is probably pulled away into his real world job or has got frustrated with Moo3. Any way it will be at least a few more weeks before I can devote any more time to improving this Mod as I've recently taken on a playtester role at cdg group and have some Civ3 mods I'm assisting with there. http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=324744 As for the fighter bases in Xeryxs Mod the no launch bug only occurs if the A.I. builds the bases before the Heavy Fighter tech is discovered hence empty bases. The fix is very simple. Take any text editor or excel and open his techtables.txt and follow the FighterBase row over to the column that says Constr_4 and change it to Constr_10 and change the number launched field in the column at the end of the row to whatever you want I tested up to 125 and he originally had it set at 150 but beyond that I don't know. I will post again after I get another chance to take a stab at that formula. In the mean time check out Minor Annoyance's Mod here. http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=314396 If anyone else reads this thread and wants to take a wack at the formula for fighterbases give it a shot as I will regularly be checking back just can't look at this until other things are done. Thanks and enjoy.

[xeryx]

Thank you for your efforts, everyone. I have notice the activity on this board has plummeted. SO, I may take a developers frame of mind, or maybe ATARI's and say " There is not enough activity on this board to warrant any more investment of my time", I have not given up on MOO completely. I was hoping that another patch would come out. If it does then I will definately upgrade my mod. But otherwise I am unsure. If I were to give it a guess, I would say I can get back too it in January. Currently I a'm playing UFO: Aftermath, then Silent Storm, Harpoon 4, and HL2. So it's time to relax and enjoy the Holidays. And YES moo3 is a dissapointment in the EXTREME. I have Decided to NEVER buy another infrogrames/atari game or whatever they change thier name too. Atari's BAD name is all over the net. I bet they change thier name again just to try and beat it. But I bet they go belly up.

JUMP SHIP SID!!!! GET OUT NOW!!!!!

YOU guys are more than welcome to develop this mod further if you like. If I did it, so can you!! Hell most of the work has been done.

FB issue: It probably is the levels of tech. or too large of an amount of fighters.

So go fix it.

And thank you much for the good words about the mod. I know that it isn't perfect.

[Awsric Armitage]

Thanks for chiming in Xeryx. I concur that Atari corporate is pushing game developers and programers beyond the limits of the time/productivity/creativity envelope and are in a stall heading towards a flat spin and downward spiral. They should throttle back, restart their engines, regain confidence and control, maneuver, and reengage. This may be the opportunity for the smaller software companies to shine and show they have not forgotten what it takes to produce a blockbuster title not just acquire one and replace the dev/programming/support team midstride. The Civ3 Conquests timetable deadline for mods to be included with the CD release from Firaxis smacks of Atari Corporate. " A fish sticks from the head." Take a lesson from Moo3's Roy and stop microing and enjoy the macro results. Business is business the same as a narrow view yields narrow results. Cost/benefit analysis is more than mere quantitative numbers as the largest unquantitative factor here is the good will of the consumer which if underestimated skews all other numbers dramatically. Off the soapbox.

[ranos]

I just started working on modding so I don't know that much about it. I haven't downloaded any mods, so I am felling my way on my own in this. I did, however, just experience the problem with the fighter bases trying to launch too many fighters. I don't know about a formula for solving it but would it be possible to make a second Fighter Base? Now I know that you can only have one of each of the bases but what I mean is leave the first one as Space Super Fighter Base and then make another one called SSFB2 or something like that. I was just thinking of trying it but wnt to get more feedback before I even attempt it. Would this be possible? Would it interfere with the first base? Would you be able to look at the planetary forces detail in the game and have it say Fighter Bases: 2? Answers to these questions would be great.

Thanks

[Awsric Armitage]

Let me try and tackle this one part or thing at a time as I might not have complete answers to all as the moding I have done is limited to fixing the Fighter Bases specific to Xeryx's Mod for Moo3. If I am not here then also check at CDG here. http://cdgroup.org/forums/site/main/portal.php CDG has there own forums and are a group comitted to the creation, customization, and design of specific game Mods or scenarios and the graphics to accompany them either unit, terrain, or GUI. They even offer mod makers the ability to Host their own Forums about there Mods on their site which is rare indeed. They are a smaller community so mostly you can find what you are looking for a little easier and faster or get more individual attention to your wants/needs. That said let me try and answer as best as possible.

I just started working on modding so I don't know that much about it. I haven't downloaded any mods, so I am felling my way on my own in this.

There are several MegaMods, combinations of several Mods, out there and there are also single mods, affecting a smaller more specific part of the game, as well. Most good mods can be found here http://moo3mods.com/ . The issues that arise when decideing which Mods to use commonly occur as compatability with each other gets smaller the more you use. The Mega Mods are almost exclusive for these purposes as they include a conglomeration of Mods. That is why I prefer to use individual Mods and tweak them to my own preferences. Also using individual Mods this way it is possible to blend Mods but this takes careful scanning of the spreadsheets for each side by side to determine which values to use then merging the two either manually or automatically chosing which parts to over write and which to leave the same. If using several Mods I recommend creating a folder to contain them outside your Main Moo3 Directory somewhere, mine is on my desktop, and then place different Mods into this folder in there own respective folders. This way you can drag and drop the appropriate folder into and out of your Moo3 directory without the massive confusion caused by replacing pieces in the individual directory trees of the main game. This method also insures no compatability issue with two like named files from different Mods as the program will attempt to use both and can cause some erratic behaviour. You can use any text editor to open and change values for the .txt files but I recommend using a spreadsheet program such as excel as the individual cells are more easily recognizable when the .txt files are larger also you do not have to worry about the tabs&spaces like you do when using a text editor. If you want my favorites I have them .rar'ed on my system and will be happy to send them to you as a group to start working with.

I did, however, just experience the problem with the fighter bases trying to launch too many fighters.

Do you mean the problem with Xeryx's Mod that causes the bases to not launch because the Bases where created before the Fighter Tech or the Bases seem to have more fighters than you would prefer them to have? Or maybe a combination of the two?

I don't know about a formula for solving it but would it be possible to make a second Fighter Base? Now I know that you can only have one of each of the bases but what I mean is leave the first one as Space Super Fighter Base and then make another one called SSFB2 or something like that.


While trying to fix the small issue with the Fighter Bases I did a lot of post reading so let me spare you the misery of wasteing hours of reading through the posts to gleen the small amount of information you actually want or need. This is one of the main reasons I frequent CDG now more than Atari as if the answer is not there at CDG a new post will get a lot of attention and the staff there is very genuine about getting the answers you need as it is a site created by and run by gamers not corporate retailers. Again the link is here. http://cdgroup.org/forums/site/main/portal.php It has been tried to make the Bases be built under or as a part of the Mil DEAs however only one Base per planet has ever been active this way even with multiple Mil DEAs on the planet. I have not seen anyone try to rename the base SSFB2 but you could try and see what happens. More than likely this is a hard coded issue that the game code looks for the first Fighter Base entry in the spreadsheets and uses that one exclusively but I am uncertain of that as the actual code is hidden/protected.

Would you be able to look at the planetary forces detail in the game and have it say Fighter Bases: 2?

I do not think so as the GUI area is to small already in that window and mine runs text over each other in between the first and second entries. I just have not had the time nor inclenation to fix it by abbreviating some of the text or altering the wording to be more brief. If the second base does work, which I doubt strongly as I think we would have heard about it by now, then this issue would have to be addressed to make that possible.

I hope these answers have been helpful. If you need more advise/help you know where to find me either here or at CDG. :D Happy moding.

[ranos]

I got brave last night and decided to try and do what I mentioned in my last post. I changed one of the other techs to make it another fighter base. I made both of them Const Lvl 0 and gave the second one the same exact Tag Values as the original, which included a change to 125 fighters launched. I started a new game. The first thing I did was change the MBQ to build the Fighter Garrison, the changed tech, and then a SSFB. The planet built the FG and then automatically deleted the SSFB out of the MBQ. I tried again reversing the build order with the same results. I did not wait to see if when attacked, fighters would be launched.

I then removed FightBas=1, SpcSupFB=1, from the Tag Value. I was then able to build as many of each of the bases as I wanted, however, in the Forces screen in the galaxy zoom in, the Fighter Bases was 0 no matter how many I built. Again, I did not wait to find out if they would launch any fighters. I don't want any planet to build more than a couple of bases, anything more and it could become impossible to take a planet. After that, I went to bed.

I am going to try some other things today to see if I can get a positive result. I will post any new results I find.

[Awsric Armitage]

Interesting result sounds like it only accepts one base but allows for more to be built. The original concept of the Mil Dea capacity enhancers was to allow for more bases to be built according to the tech description. I think you might have found one of the many instances of spagetti-code invovled in the transistion of the original project team, especially the lead by Alan Emmerich the concept originator, to a replacement team as some members left or were reassigned periodically as the project took much longer than anyone anticipated. The variable that I was searching for is probably in the spreadsheets somewhere having to do with planets size or population and could be used in the # launched field to bound the upper # and make the # variable upto the upperlimit based on population size. Afterall that number must be used for several other calculations involving various other elements in the game it has just eluded me as to where it is mentioned in the spreadsheets. One of my future project ideas has to do with combining the Xeryxs Weapons Mod and a few other weapons mods to create a useful single mod that is a conglomeration of the two without techtables.txt and other conflicts. The mod I have been watching but not closely is I believe minor annoyances or beam-ups weapons balance mod for the one to combine with this one after finishing tweaking the fighter bases. Another thing you might want to try as you are testing new ideas and mods is to set the auto-run to to turn 100 or 150 with the tech Const_#'s at the appropriate levels they will be for the actual mod as released and then look around for a planet or two that is close to what you need to modle the desired situation and you can more accurately see if the AI is behaving as needed. Note that determining if the # launched is actually changing is difficult at best as the graphic is still a swarm of indeterminable amount. Good luck and please keep me informed.

[ranos]

Partial success!!

I removed FightBas=1, SpcSupFB=1, from the Tag Value again, set number of fighters to 125 and auto-ran a game to turn 100. I then declared war on all species I had contact with. After a couple of turns, one of my fleets, which had been sent out by the computer, entered the system of one of the computer empires. I assaulted a planet and the number of fighters launched at me was massive. Just to be sure I continued on with the battles that turn. I then assaulted a planet in another system and the number of fighters launched against me was much less, at least one third if not less.

Conclusion:

By removing FightBas=1 and SpcSupFB=1 from the Tag Value, the number of Fighter Bases that can be built on a planet is unlimited.
Presumeably, this could be done with Missile and Beam Bases, but I have not tested that.

The only problem with this is that the number of fighter bases listed on the forces screen in the galaxy zoom will always be 0. In other words, you are partially assaulting a planet without knowing the exact ammount of resistance you will face.

I also, prior to running this test, tried changing both of the above variables to 2. The effect was the same as if the number were 1.

Another test was to see if increasing the population required to operate the base would allow for more fighters at the base. This did not work either. I only tested this with one number so more testing may yield different results. Numbers used: 0.75 pop, 255 fighters.

I have not nor will I probably ever search for a formula to use in making the number of fighters or the number of bases limited by some other factor. I will see if there are any other numbers, variables, etc. I can change to get better results.

[Awsric Armitage]

After a couple of turns, one of my fleets, which had been sent out by the computer, entered the system of one of the computer empires. I assaulted a planet and the number of fighters launched at me was massive. Just to be sure I continued on with the battles that turn. I then assaulted a planet in another system and the number of fighters launched against me was much less, at least one third if not less.

Is it possible that one had a Fighter Base and the other had a Carrier/Orbital in addition to the Fighter Base around that was destroyed early battle but able to launch additional fighters before destruction? Just playing Devil's Advocate hear.

Also I had a pm in my box from rhyssan and he is pretty good with mods and the game mechanics so hopefully he will pop in here with some aid.

Conclusion:

By removing FightBas=1 and SpcSupFB=1 from the Tag Value, the number of Fighter Bases that can be built on a planet is unlimited.
Presumeably, this could be done with Missile and Beam Bases, but I have not tested that.

I would not be so quick to jump to that conclusion just yet. While your results are encourageing and very exciting there are still other things to check first before a more solid conclusion can be drawn. I have heard of a method in multiplayer to reload as one of the AIs and check out their builds. While I never have done this it might be possible to check in MP for the # of bases actually built by the AI as I have a suspicion it might stop at one. This might prove difficult as you have stated the number shown in the forces display is misleading at 0 and I do not know where else to find the actual number of Fighter Bases involved in the combat. Perhaps if you get another gamer to MP with you you both can agree to a testing game or system to test this out. Each of you could colonize a system next to each other and build one base a piece on predetermined worlds and attack with no defense other than the Fighter Base and see the results. After the first attack build another and attack and repeat and repeat to see if their is a definite descernable difference between 2, 3, or 4 bases. if you are so inclined I would be very interested in the result as this would prove beyond a doubt that the results are conclusive and valid. Also the number of fighters launched that was causing a no launch was 150 so the 225 number above might be above the max. # allowed. Results still sound like you are much closer than I was.

[ranos]

I know the difference between a large group of fighters launched from one source and two or more launched from multiple sources.

Upon the destruction of my ship, the huge group of fighters congeled (I'm pretty sure I spelled that wrong) into one "fish school" as its been called. To me, these schools look like a circle within a square, the fighters being the filling in between the circle and square. In the first one, it was a solid mass of different shades of brown. In the other, there was a clear distinction between each fighter. To me, at least, this says one had more than the other.

I have no doubt about my conclusions and really have no desire to mess around with the save game to try and prove them to you. Just do the same thing I did. Set the nubers in the Tags like I did. Start a game, pick any race, with auto-run to 100. Let the computer do its thing and then declare war on everybody. Send out your ships in as many TFs as you can, and if the AIs built as they did here, you will see the results I saw.

Something I forgot to mention in the previous post but I know I mentioned it in the post before that, you can build multiple bases per planet. My home planet had four bases on it when I looked.

[Awsric Armitage]

Cool. I've just found over time that some first conclusion can be misleading is all and wanted to get more facts before rushing to a conclusion. I'll try my next game. Like I stated earlier I am otherwise committed at the moment but will eventually return. You might want to post you findings in a new thread for the whole community to better see as this thread has gotten kinda deep here and some may not read to the end. Just a thought for sharing your discovery. Thanks.

[Hyndis]

Well, I'm back lurking again.

I really don't know why I still come here...force of habbit, maybe?

And that UFO Aftermath game looks kind of interesting. I'm downloading the demo now, and I'm hoping it'll be sort of like a Close Combat game...kind of...with aliens and better graphics. :D


But on the topic of defense bases, here's a thought:

Can you put a formula into the listing instead of just a number?

So instead of having a fighter base launch 75 fighters, can you make it something like "NumLnch = (Fortify * 10)" or " MultFire *= (MaxPop)"? I really don't care to test this anymore, and if this will work, you'd have to check what kind of symbols it uses to set a formula off, as well as how to multiply the two together and such. But if it does work, then you have some very, very interesting possibilities.

Looking over the modifiers table, here's some values that might make it so that you can indirectly control how many guns/fighters/missiles are at each base due to other buildings on your planet, such as some sort of gun battery building built at each military DEA.

Fortify (dunno what it does, but the cavernous special gives you +2)
MaxPop (number of guns based on size of planet?)
OptOpres (the more dictatorial you are, the more guns you get?)
GndCombt (combat apitude of your race)
OffSensr (better sensors = more developed defenses?)


Anyways, those are just some ideas. I don't feel like testing it, its just something I thought up while reading this thread.

Now, just 15 more hours 'till the demo is done downloading...

[Awsric Armitage]

Can you put a formula into the listing instead of just a number? So instead of having a fighter base launch 75 fighters, can you make it something like "NumLnch = (Fortify * 10)" or " MultFire *= (MaxPop)"? I really don't care to test this anymore, and if this will work, you'd have to check what kind of symbols it uses to set a formula off, as well as how to multiply the two together and such. But if it does work, then you have some very, very interesting possibilities.

Yeah, that is the general idea of using a formula to generate a variable number rather than a fixed integer. I have not tried any formulas yet but as listed above I ran tests to 125 fighters successfully but at 150 they will not launch. The FBs go through the motions and act like they are launching but the fighter status just cycles through fueling to in-bay for a couple of seconds then back to fueling.

I wanted to use some of the variables Hyndis mentioned above as well as some others that look promising. I did a search over the past several weeks when I had the time and inclination and came up with several possibilities but have yet to test any of them as I am testing Hyndis' idea of better shields and armor values to see how that effects the combat system. It would seem to me that the fighters would be less effective until the shields were breached but would accomplish just that task quickly while other SR or LR TFs close to engagement ranges. Also the smaller hulls would definitely be more suvivable and suitable as additional supporting gun platforms changing the tactics for effective fleet compositons as the extra guns on the smaller hulled ships would survive to fire longer. I like the idea. I also found in the scientific symposium thread some interesting fighter rockets, phantom fighter drones, and vectored weapons systems and it seems a combination in a carriers arsenal would add a newer dimension to the carrier fighter wing compositions. It seems I might have bit off more than I thought and all of these together with Xeryx's original Mod might start a newer version of the Mod. Time will tell. Some of the variables for the FB number launched field and for the other bases as well I was going to use were MaxPop, Pop, and Mileff in some combination to yield a number no more than 150 to ensure successful launches but also high enough to make the bases worth building for the lower population worlds. Other variables with unknown uses but their names suggest that they could be used are NaturalLimit, PctFull[x], PopDensity, and PctFull. A few potential problems I thought of are if the code will return a zero value for any variables it cannot find thus negating that part of the formula if using multiplication and how if necessary to point to a variable if the code does not automatically, does the base need to be inside the Mil DEA to use the Mileff variable or will it pick up the highest Mileff on the planet or the sum of the planets Mil DEAs eff's. The numbers get pretty out of hand quickly with a cap of 150. The Mileff has 4 upgrades in the spreadsheets so I was thinking making that part of the formula something like *1.0+.2*Mileff to multiply by 1 to 2 the base number from MaxPop, Pop, or PctFull. I know the planets range from size 3 to size 12 but there are also a few techs that expand the planets MaxPop beyond that range so its more like 3 to 14 or 15. The 2 to 3 points of pop do not seem like much but when combined into the formula they can get larger effects. I was thinking the Pop part of the equation can not be more then 62.5 if the Mileff part is capped at 2 so the result would be no more than 125 total. Based off the above information my initial idea for a formula looks like this I also do not know if the code will accept decimal numbers in this field or only a whole integer value or whether it will round the numbers if not.

NumLnch= (MaxPop*2.08333)*(1+Mileff*.2)*(1+PctFull)
giving ranges of 6.25 to 31.25 * 1.2 to 2 * 1.01 to 2
yielding net results of 7.575 to 125
Given MaxPop <= 15, Mileff <= 5, and PctFull = Pop/Maxpop

Well sometime I will give it a try and see if it works. I am enjoying playing with the shields and armor right now so if anyone else wants to try it feel free and let us know. I am not ready to plug it in just yet.

[Hyndis]

The thing I really like about the 10x strength mod is that:

A) its really, really simple to do. Just add a few extra zeros. :D
B) balance isn't touched the least bit, as everyone is effected equally
C) combat lasts longer than having the first guy who gets a shot off win


Also, some things I've found from using this simple mod:

Missiles hurt, but unless they're hitting tiny ships or are much more advanced than you, or using a torpedo chasis, they'll mostly just scrape all of your armor off. And then you ought to really start getting worried about the second salvo. Missiles are excellent in support, as they soften everything up so your big guns can finish them off.

Fighters can be powerful, but mostly just for recon, target saturation, and to wear down their shields. A few fighters can be outright ignored, but once you start going against 6+ carrier armadas at once, things start getting very dangerous, even with everything being 10x stronger. But at least you stand a chance now. Whereas before the fighters would destroy your armadas in a single shot, now they merely destroy it in short order, giving your LFG's some time to work and possibly save you.

But the biggest change is in direct fire weapons. These now turn into real slugging matches, almost like a WWI naval battle. You have ships pounding away at each other for a long time, and then sometimes you close in really close, and open up with the LFG's. This seems to be the most decisive thing, as a single LFG salvo can either totally destroy or severely damage an entire enemy armada. I figure thats where ships close to point blank range, and then open up with torpedos, grapeshot, or whatever else is handy. Usually the first fleet to open fire wins.

And battles are much longer, too, which is very nice. Although they're still all concluded in under 3 minutes...maybe 4 for a very long and involved battle, and thats a big improvement over battles lasting mere seconds, at least, in my opinion.



But having a plantary defense base have its power based on the planet would eliminate the problem of simply trying to build more bases, as they don't seem to like to stack. And if you allow an unlimited number to stack, thats just asking for a crash when suddenly 10,000 fighers appear...and not to mention that is also instant death to an enemy, and in longer games would be completely and utterly unfair.

So instead, just one base that scales would be nice.

But I'm done playing this game, so I'll try to help out, but I won't test anything. I already got enough value for my money that I'm happy, but I've played it so many times that I've simply done everything possible there is to do. But if you have a question, I can probably answer it, between much gameplay and lots of tinkering with the files. :cool:

[Awsric Armitage]

Very much appreciated. The ideas for the shields and armor are working out nicely just like described above. A very long time ago I posted my objections to the LFGs being changed to the weapons systems from the shields or a field generator wrapping tightly around a single vessel so I may look at shortening their effective range but this is my first run through and I have not reached that tech level yet. I really want to make the planetary defense bases scalable with the Pop and MilEff because it just seems to make more sense without getting out of control balance wise. Balance is very important to me in any game as the more plausable realism that is removed and the more cheese the more I get turned off. A little cheese if it fits is OK but not to much. It is a detailed strategy simulation not a first-person shooter nor an arcade style game. Thank you for you offer of support as my interest fluctuates with this one going in spurts because of the frustrations of trying something repeatedly without being able to isolate or see the effects of some changes. To many stabs in the dark. I will be back at it no doubt about it as I am reselient but just need periodic breaks. Along with the shields and armor increases for the next game I am going to add in the Fighter Rockets to see how effective they are but I will have to remove or change the Bomber and Heavy Bomber chassis' to Balance. More fun to come if you can call it that.

[Hyndis]

It would be so nice if a dev would just let us know some simple, basic questions about what we can use as variables. That would save such a vast amount of effort...


But as something as sort of a stop-gap measure, I simply modded the defense bases to be really strong, about equivilent to a single armada worth of firepower. This means that in the early game, its very difficult to attack a planet, but later on, planetary defenses are just moderately annoying to deal with and not really any threat at all.

Also, on the beam bases, I made the refire rate very short so that they can sort of work against fighters and there's pretty much a constant stream of fire comming off of the planet if you get too close.

And these are PLANETARY defense, so they ought to be tough. You can fit a hell of a lot more stuff on a PLANET than you can on a single ship. :rolleyes:

[Awsric Armitage]

Very true about the planetary beam bases. IMHO they should have made them two bases one LR heavy damage slow refire like the one in Star Wars when the Rebels were getting off of Hoth the Ice Planet. Another the smaller close range pd quick refire for fighter and missle swatting with a short range. I use orbitals for this role as well as augmenting the planetary fighter bases but a planetary pd would be nice. We can only do one base of each type if I am correct. Any way 'Its time for some Football. A monday night party.' Some ones calling my name.