Have you ever worked for an amusement park? [Archive]

beck2003

08-12-2003, 10:46 AM

well, dejavu is the most popular ride at the park. not a lot of people have had the opportunity to ride it since it has been open up until this year since the mechanics finally saw the light and figured the ride out. we have been operating all summer long non-stop. also there arent really all that many extreme rides in our park aside from acrophobia. so our line is constantly filled up no matter what day of the week it is cause everyone wants to ride. so since so many people are so excited to ride the ride once theyre strapped in i make a few announcements to enhance the excitement and it works. i might scare them by informing them that "dejavu is taller and faster than acrophobia" or "you will be going for 0-73mph in less tha 4 seconds" and may crack a joke like "you will be completely vertical meaning all of your body weight will be on those unreliable green shoulder harnessess" ill say more stuff over the intercalm like "we hope you dont have to pee" right before they leave" or we ask if anyone wants to get off, (often there are a couple) and tell them "its too late" by the time i dipatch the train the people on the ride are either cracking up, or freakin out! they love it! they waited 3 hours for the ride, im gonna make the damn thing memorable for cryin out loud. so dont hate! i know dejavu is nothing compared to a lot of rides out there, and i have been on a lot of rides out there, but it is all sfog has, and everyone loves it. our ride and staff has gotton more praise and complements at guest realations than any other ride in the past two years combined! weve hardly had a single guests who hasnt enjoyed the ride. i have people come up to me all the time after they ride laughing and telling me that they have been all over the country riding rides and they had never heard anyone scare the crap outta them like that before they rode at all, and they loved it. im sorry if u think dejavu sux harpo, and yes to hundreds of rides out there it does. but sfog is the one place where it dosent suck. its our tallest, fastest, most inverted, most extreme, and most popular ride in the park and im kinda proud to be operating it. so back off.

Harpo

08-12-2003, 10:54 AM

Well, I am sorry, but SFOG's Deja Vu is the only place I've been where it was regularly taking more than 7 minutes between train launches. At that rate, only 274 people per hour can ride, far less than the specified capacity of 870 people. It just wasn't worth that kind of wait. It should be noted that the queue also had more trash than any queue I've ever been in.

Sorry for the negativity, but I have to call 'em as I see 'em.

Harpo

08-12-2003, 02:33 PM

It's really not going to help blowing a gasket with me. I call it as I see it. I recorded the time multiple times. Yes, that was last year. I have not been back this year. As for the 870 number, that's the capacity listed by RCDB. Don't like it? Complain to them. Meanwhile, Wicked Twister, with similar harnessing and seating, typically has about a 30 second turnaround time, allowing trains to generally be launched in under 2 minutes. Yes, guests do sometimes slow down the ride prep, and I'm understanding of that. Maybe you've improved this factor, but, last year, it took more than 1 minute after the harnesses were released for the crew to even open the air gates. That's something I absolutely do not understand, and it is not the fault of the guests.

Could I do the job better? Perhaps. We'll probably never know, as I'm busy with engineering for the automotive industry. Certainly, when I worked at my game at Cedar Point, I was one of the fastest in the park. But, beyond that, of the 116 parks I've visited, SFOG was absolutely the least efficient.

You've added trash cans? Good. It needed it. But, last year, the cans were overflowing, and staff was actually kicking the trash rather than doing anything about it. At SFOG, the condition of the queue may not be your responsibility. I don't know about that. At Cedar Point, the entire ride condition is the responsibility of the ride lead, including the queue.

If it makes you happy to kick me for my observations, well, have fun. But, you're only shooting the messenger, and that never solves any problems.

Good day.

Edit: Incidentally, I do not merely gripe on this board. I sent two letters to Six Flags in 2002, and I spoke with one of the GM's by phone, commenting on the issues and offering suggestions for improvement. I've been to enough parks to see what can and cannot be done. While the guests may cause issues, the best parks NEVER blame the guests -- they just find a way to fix the issues and move on. And, at the best parks, trash at the park is considered to be EVERY employee's responsibility. You may wish to watch a Discovery channel item on Cedar Point. During the interview, Dick Kinzel, CEO of Cedar Fair, noticed a piece of trash on the midway. He picked it up. Employees at Cedar Point can and do receive disciplinary action if they are found to ignore any piece of trash that they spot on the midway. The requirement to pick up the trash goes for permanent and seasonal employees. (Incidentally, for the 7 minute timing, not only did I take several measurements, as is typical for an engineer, but the time was confirmed by people I met in the queue who timed it independently. They commented to me when they saw me timing the ride.)

beck2003

08-12-2003, 03:15 PM

im sorry but wicked twister and dejavu's harnesses/restraints are nothing alike, wicked twister has only the harness and the seat bel on the side. we have the harness, a seatbelt around the waist and a seatbelt that attaches to the harness. and if there is an empty seat we have to fasten the seatbelt a certain way that take a little extra time. we sometimes have a problem with setabelts getting twisted up and stuff, or maybe an overweight guest trying their best to squeeze into the seat. you have no idea what the reason may be once you sit down and why its taking a little longer than usual, you cant see whats going on on the whole dock while your seated. cry about it. also all the rides at cp have at least 5-6 staff members checking harnessess. dejavu is only allowed 3 max. also we can only open the air gates when the dock is cleared of all people.

Harpo

08-12-2003, 03:44 PM

You have successfully identified one of the problems about which I've complained to Six Flags: the parks are understaffed, sometimes dangerously so.

While I'm seated, you're right, I cannot see the whole dock. But, while waiting and/or observing, it is possible to see the whole dock on most rides.

Of all the rides I've experienced, Perilous Plunge at Knott's Berry Farm has the most complex harnesses I've yet to see. However, they still take less time than what I was witnessing in 2002 at SFOG.

Crying about it? No need to. I just spend my money at other parks. But, if Six Flags wishes to learn from the experience of someone who's been to many parks, witnessing some great and some rotten operations, they really should listen to me. Listening wouldn't hurt, whereas fighting me on it and calling me names is only decreasing my already low opinion of Six Flags. When I've had issues with several other parks, and have shared those issues with them, the response was quite different. They may not have agreed with my opinions, but they didn't belittle my opinions, either. In some cases, I've returned to find significant improvements, showing that they apparently listened. I happen to have a passion for the amusement industry. As a result, I'd like to see EVERY park be exceptionally well run, so I try to help by providing my comments. So far, only Six Flags has managed to further annoy me when I've made my comments.

As for opening the air gate... I know that most Six Flags parks put the turnstiles at the exit, which tends to significantly slow down the clearing of the loading platform. I don't recall where the turnstile was for SFOG's Deja Vu. If it is at the exit, may I suggest that you recommend it be moved to the entrance, where there is not a problem with the bottleneck that always appears at the exit compounded by people trying to get through a turnstile.

It should also be noted that most parks I've visited do not feel it is necessary to wait for the loading platform to be cleared before opening the air gates. That's something I've primarily witnessed at Six Flags parks, although Six Flags is fairly consistent about it.

beck2003

08-13-2003, 01:41 AM

our ride has no turnstile. and back to loading, first off, it takes a minute for people to secure their loose articles since it is diffucult to migrate through the train. blame vekoma for that. secondly i announce over and over and over again that all riders must only fasten the orange safety belt and not touch the green shoulder harness until instructed to do so. no matter how slowly, or clearly or how many times i say it we will still have several guests pull down their green shoulder harness. so we basically have to start all over, unlock the harnessess check seatbelts and re-lock. is that the employees fault? nope, blame vekoma. i am so very sorry you had a bad experience,last year. so did i when i was a guest, but ive come along and changed it. i still dont think you have a clue what your talking about though, you didnt make a 100 on the operators test after studying the 100 page manual for two weeks like i did. i know how the ride is ran, had been ran, and will always be run. according to vekoma's instructions on the ride operation, 3 attendants max are allowed on the dock, this has nothing to do with the staffing or anything like that. now what i mean by 3 attendants is 3 max checking harnesses, this does not include the person grouping. all parks have to operate the rides under the manufacturers instructions. it has nothing do do with six flags ad staffing. no matter how many different ways you put it or dont put it, dejavu's loading process is a little longer than a lot of rides, especially at sfog. most guests assume the seating is like batman and forget about the orange safety belt. most guests are so excited they do not pay attention to instructions. and thats our fault? if anything it is the guests stalling us from doing our job! i dont blame them, cuase they arent supposed to come on the ride knowing everything like we do. but you however act like you do when you dont. and that is the type of guests i cannot stand most, a guests that thinks they know more than the employee when they seriously dont. and dood, you seriously have no clue what your talking about. i do agree however that last year did suck for the vu, in fact the past two years have sucked with all of its technical problems, but things can change in a year, and your never going to find a perfect park that meets all of your demands, so quite being so picky and just be thankful you actually got to ride the ride, cause there are so many people who would do anything to ride dejavu. trust me i know.

Harpo

08-13-2003, 10:41 AM

Whatever. I'm tired of arguing the point. I'm not going to convince you, and you absolutely are not going to convince me, especially with the name calling.

Of course, this person who doesn't know what he's talking about earns a living partially via making process improvements, and has done so for 11 years, and on things far more complex than Deja Vu. My biggest project, for which I earned 2 U.S. patents, was automating a one billion dollar semiconductor fabrication facility containing 450 pieces of equipment. The one facility cost as much to build as 1 year's worth of Six Flags revenue. If you really wish to ignore such experience in process improvements, then good luck to you.

beck2003

08-13-2003, 09:50 PM

good for you...balhblahblah mr. big stuff. who do you think you are? take your money and get a life. six flags is not my career swifty. im in college, and i like coasters so i figured i'd get a summer job. so go argue with someone your own age...o-wait you wouldnt win, whats why you have to argue with young people...to make you feel better about yourself. get a life. ignore experience in process improvements? whats there to improve? ive improved everything from last year...do u not pay attention??? stop dwelling on the past...get over it, it was a year ago!

iAMpaste001

08-13-2003, 11:32 PM

You've single-handedly improved Six Flags by being a ride op? Do you get some kind of award for that?

CoasterXtremist

08-13-2003, 11:56 PM

Originally posted by beck2003
be thankful you actually got to ride the ride, cause there are so many people who would do anything to ride dejavu.

:weird: :haha: Sorry...

raptorrvnge4928

08-14-2003, 01:20 AM

Wow Beck2003. Thank you very much. You have just single-handedly persuaded me to NOT go to SFOG. If you really are a ride-op (which I doubt you are, let alone LEAD ride-op) you do not seem to have any sense of customer service at your position, and therefore, you are not the one that I would want to trust my safety within. If per chance one day, somebody has an accident and is killed at your park, or even worse, at your ride, are the people still "idiots"? And when people like Harpo do notice problems in safety and efficiency, does it hurt your ego that much that you have to attack Harpo and the likes? Just out of curiousity, you are in college? Well if you put as much effort into your studies as you do to constructive criticism here, I feel you have a rude awakening getting ready to occur. Point being, the attitude you seem to take towards issues seems to be the same type of attitude that man SF employees take. Perhaps its management, perhaps its the employees..... perhaps its human resources. Point being, I can now see why SF stock is down... And I can now verify the incidents as SF: Grt Amer were not isolated incidents, rather an indicator of the way SF theme parks really are.

IEATPASTE001

08-14-2003, 02:17 AM

Originally posted by beck2003
well, dejavu is the most popular ride at the park.

Longest line doesn't mean most popular, Its just a boomerang! It can't be that great!

Also someone like Harpo would know this since he has had alot more experience with this of this nature then any of us here. He is a good friend and i know he has been there and done that when it comes to coasters, The things he was saying weren't against you, but the way the ride was operating when he visited last, it isn't personal. So i didn't know 5 garbage cans could solve all of SFI's and Deja Vu's problems, thanks for solving that mystery!

Harpo

08-14-2003, 10:22 AM

I had a life once. I sold it for $50 and a coaster to be named later. I think it was a good deal. :D

Sorry if I've bruised your fragile ego, beck. Like I've been saying, I only call 'em as I've seen 'em. If you've improved the ride ops, good. But, your attitude certainly doesn't encourage me to want to give SFOG another chance.

By the way, when I have discussions with my coworkers, we generally avoid the personal attacks, hence progress is made. It's not about winning or losing, it's about solving problems. You may wish to think about that.

And, of course, when I mentioned some of my experience, it wasn't for the purpose of bragging. It was simply to show that, when it comes to process improvements, I do know what I'm talking about.

Just curious... does Six Flags provide housing at the park for the employees? It's truly amazing what one can learn when one lives 24x7 for 4 summers surrounded by other park employees from all parts of the park.

RCT2fan08

08-14-2003, 11:43 AM

Hey Raptor what incidents happened to SF GA's deja-vu ride. We all know it still isnt open, but not why. And to Beck, having worked in the industry before, we want to call the guests “idiots”, but only a small portion are. Most of them are just overly excited to be in the park, and their main goal is to get on as many rides as possible. Yes they hear the announcements, but are too involved to pay attention to them, and they go in one ear and out the other. Several times I have gave directions to guests while they are directly in front me, them eye to eye, etc. only to have them give me that “huh”look”. That is where the ride operators come, to double, triple check that everything is good to go. It is part of the job, and in our training on dealing with situations like that. Now as the operating procedure of your ride, is there a way that yourself and other operators suggest more efficient ways of your loading procedures, or are they set in stone. If they know it isn’t working right, why wont they fix it?

IronWolf98

08-21-2003, 06:34 PM

Originally posted by Harpo

Just curious... does Six Flags provide housing at the park for the employees? It's truly amazing what one can learn when one lives 24x7 for 4 summers surrounded by other park employees from all parts of the park.

I think that may be true, but park employees tend to segregate (I know they did at SFGrAm). When I was an employee, unless I had a friend working in another dept., I had no reason to talk to someone from the other dept. With housing, HR would try to put people from the same department in the apartment.

I think if I were still a rides lead (the legal profession decided to finally call me), you would definitely not want to go to Great America. I felt that my first priority was the safe operation and management of the ride. I often conflicted with guests who thought my first priority was to please them. I wanted the ride to be completely safe from an operator standpoint (and mechanical to the best of my training, but ultimately that was up to maintenance), so I didn't care if people liked me or not. I'm sure there were times I was more rude than I intended, but if someone yelled at me I dished it right back. Those are extremes, but generally how it went.

As for Deja Vu's slow timing, that is bad/design and slow people (and combuine that with the possibility of slow ops...) When I worked at Whizzer, which only has seatbelts, it was hard to get the train out in a timely fashion (guests wouldn't think it was slow, but we have an hour;y goal which we never met). First you have the person who can't figure out the restraint; next you have the person who takes his/her time putting items in the storage bin, slowing up the locking of the restraints; next you have the last minute person who decides not to ride; etc. Take this to to a ride with two types of restraints, on obstructive loading process, and only one train, and it's not surprising how slow the load time is.

Harpo

08-22-2003, 11:07 AM

Actually, I place safety and attentiveness as the highest priority. I tend to be very disturbed by operators who are not paying attention. However, it also bugs me to see operators moving like their feet are stuck in mud.

As for communicating with the guests, I'm sorry, but I feel there's absolutely no reason for rudeness. I was a weight guesser for 4 summers. We received more abuse from the guests than any other position in the park. (That was confirmed by security, as they would periodically have undercover audits of all positions. The reports showed we took the worst abuse.) It doesn't matter what's wrong. Ride down in the area? Blame the Guesser. Got some food you don't like? Blame the Guesser. Got blisters on your feet? Blame the Guesser. Temperature is too hot or too cold? Got to be the Guesser's fault. While working at the game, I was hit, slapped, sworn at, punched, shoved, kicked, had things thrown at me, and even bitten. And yet, we still managed to stay friendly. It wasn't always easy, but we did it. (I'd often take out my frustration by punching a wall in the back room when I was out of sight of the guests. Coming up with the list of Reasons Why Stupid People Shouldn't Breathe was also a good tension-releaser.) Of course, that doesn't mean we were pushovers. I had some folks arrested, and others escorted out of the park. But, it was always done with a polite attitude. ("Yes sir. I'm sorry you're displeased, but I can't allow you to take a prize without playing the game. I'm sorry ma'am, but you cannot stand within the yellow area -- that's my loading zone. You never know when my whole building may get up and move away.")

As for housing at Cedar Point, there was lots of mixing between groups. It was difficult to choose a roommate, and housing did not take departments into account when making room assignments. As a result, I had friends in every department, including office cleaners, warehousing, foods, rides, parking, merchandise, resorts, live shows, sweeps, and, of course, games. One summer, my girlfriend was a ride hostess. Another summer, I had a merchandise hostess as a girlfriend. Yet another, a foods hostess. (I have to admit, I miss the ease of getting a date at Cedar Point. It was true then and is still true today that the girls outnumber the guys nearly 3 to 1. Making it even easier for me, straight guys are less common than gay guys. So, a straight guy had many choices for dates! Meanwhile, my engineering classes had a grand total of 4 girls during the entire 7 years of my two degrees! That makes dating a bit tougher, especially when one of those 4 hates all men, another is already married, and the other two are the Lee sisters, Ug and Home. They were from Tasmania. Unfortunately, in addition to a somewhat rough exterior, they were thoroughly obnoxious! Oh well.)

IronWolf98

08-22-2003, 01:24 PM

Originally posted by Harpo
Actually, I place safety and attentiveness as the highest priority. I tend to be very disturbed by operators who are not paying attention. However, it also bugs me to see operators moving like their feet are stuck in mud.

As for communicating with the guests, I'm sorry, but I feel there's absolutely no reason for rudeness.

I agree, with the exception of the rudeness. Unfortunately, that is often the only way to get someone to pay attention to you. As a weight guesser, you had the luxury of time. As a rides lead, I had no such luxury. I was constantly monitoring my employees and disciplining them for not doing what was required of them. And although I always attempted to be nice to guests at first (and I am talking about those who don't follow rules), as soon as they start defying my authority all bets are off. The problem is Security at Six Flags is lackluster when it comes to dealing with guests, and being rude to them is often the only way to exert some type of authority. I probably would not have ever been rude to a guest if it weren't for the attitude of security to not enforce ride policies. They never did. Because of me, ride operators were allowed to make on-site determinations to prevent line-jumpers from riding (My manager allowed me to overrule security decisions to that effect). It was my job to oversee the safety of guests, and if thwey weren't cooperating then they aren't entitled to my niceness. I'm sorry, but once you start getting nasty with people, they should be allowed to get nasty right back. But also, I should say that in general at Six Flags I was the only ride op allowed to get away with that. My supervisors and managers knew that I was trying to enforce policies without having to get higher power. I'm sure I hold the record for guest complaints, but if you read each and every one you'll find that it was part of an enforcement for a policy. The sad fact is that today, people are all about themselves and have no courtesy, and they think rules apply only to others and not themselves (they must be overwhelmingly republican!).

Wolsey

08-22-2003, 01:38 PM

I havnt worked at any theme park, although i'd really like to be working at Blackpool Pleasure Beach, it seems a laugh there!

Harpo

08-22-2003, 02:27 PM

Originally posted by IronWolf98
I agree, with the exception of the rudeness. Unfortunately, that is often the only way to get someone to pay attention to you. As a weight guesser, you had the luxury of time.

Well, I'm afraid I still can't quite agree. I've seen many cases at many parks where there was firmness without rudeness. Firm is one thing, rude is quite another. When a guest was rude to me, I was determined to not bring myself down to that level.

As for the luxury of time, I don't recall having such a luxury. We had quotas, as well. There were many times when we were expected to make over 200 guesses per hour -- that's less than 20 seconds per guess, on average. Plus, we had to keep an eye on our stock and our money to ensure that we didn't get ripped off. 20 seconds may seem like a lot of time, but, keep in mind, we'd get lulls and rushes (or, as we'd call them, "tips.") During a tip, we might be guessing 6 or 7 people per minute. At the same time, we're trying to keep the tip going by enticing more people to watch and play. In many cases, there isn't time to work with someone who's causing problems. In those cases, I would firmly, but politely, invite the person to move on. It isn't always easy, but it can be done.

Of course, you could counter that it's different with a game. But, I've seen similar firm but polite actions on rides, including at Cedar Point, which regularly wins the Golden Ticket award for best ride capacity (meaning they push through the most people) and is recognized as being one of the safest parks in the industry. So, it shows that speed, safety, and politeness can be achieved. It takes good training, lots of patience, and lots of work, but it is possible. (I've also seen excellent examples at Holiday World, ValleyFair, and HersheyPark, to name a few. One advantage of having visited so many parks is that I have seen what is possible. The result, of course, is that it's very difficult to convince me that there's a valid reason for bypassing the best that is possible.)

On the other hand, I can forgive and understand the occasional "bad day," as long as it isn't habitual. It happens. However, the unfortunate trend of the service industry, in general, is to be rude, inattentive, and uncaring. I don't mean to lecture, but I keep hoping that, somehow, I can turn that trend around, whether it's at a restaurant, an amusement park, or a department store, by increasing awareness. I wrote a letter to the Michigan State Fair just the other day, commenting on the same issue. It's probably a losing battle on my part, largely because people are hesitant to change (after all, change requires effort), but I don't tend to give up easily.

kaffine

08-28-2003, 01:12 AM

Originally posted by beck2003
blame vekoma for that.[B]

WORST thing you can do is blame Vekoma. Vekoma builds quality coasters with the highest possible safety standards in mind and the inability of guests to cooperate with these standards is not vekoma's fault.

i still dont think you have a clue what your talking about though, you didnt make a 100 on the operators test after studying the 100 page manual for two weeks like i did.

Your point is moot. There is no '100 page operator's manual.' I operate a vekoma coaster, and the manual I recieved is nothing more than an SOG book, lemme pull it out real fast.

It contains all of the following:
- Park-specific information added in by anheuser busch
- Information on ride restrictions (no eating, drinking)
- A quick glossary of ride terms (dataliner, dispatch, boosters, gate trouble indicator)
- Operating position descriptions (CBO, Loader, Unloader, Groupers, Loader #2)
- Operating procedures
- Another glossary

The manual weighs in at 60 pages, and information on the coaster only begins at page 42. Also, the ride test has nothing to do with your capacity to operate the ride. In Anheuser-Busch parks they give you the test open-book after a live training session and two hands-on runs with the coaster.

Also, just as a comment, 7 minutes between dispatches is thoroughly unacceptable. We aim for 35 seconds from unload to dispatch-ready, although generally we pull about 45-60, maxing at about 4 minutes if there's particularly troublesome guests.

IronWolf98

08-29-2003, 02:45 PM

Originally posted by Harpo
Well, I'm afraid I still can't quite agree. I've seen many cases at many parks where there was firmness without rudeness. Firm is one thing, rude is quite another. When a guest was rude to me, I was determined to not bring myself down to that level.

As for the luxury of time, I don't recall having such a luxury. We had quotas, as well. There were many times when we were expected to make over 200 guesses per hour -- that's less than 20 seconds per guess, on average. Plus, we had to keep an eye on our stock and our money to ensure that we didn't get ripped off. 20 seconds may seem like a lot of time, but, keep in mind, we'd get lulls and rushes (or, as we'd call them, "tips.") During a tip, we might be guessing 6 or 7 people per minute. At the same time, we're trying to keep the tip going by enticing more people to watch and play. In many cases, there isn't time to work with someone who's causing problems. In those cases, I would firmly, but politely, invite the person to move on. It isn't always easy, but it can be done.

Of course, you could counter that it's different with a game. But, I've seen similar firm but polite actions on rides, including at Cedar Point, which regularly wins the Golden Ticket award for best ride capacity (meaning they push through the most people) and is recognized as being one of the safest parks in the industry. So, it shows that speed, safety, and politeness can be achieved. It takes good training, lots of patience, and lots of work, but it is possible. (I've also seen excellent examples at Holiday World, ValleyFair, and HersheyPark, to name a few. One advantage of having visited so many parks is that I have seen what is possible. The result, of course, is that it's very difficult to convince me that there's a valid reason for bypassing the best that is possible.)

On the other hand, I can forgive and understand the occasional "bad day," as long as it isn't habitual. It happens. However, the unfortunate trend of the service industry, in general, is to be rude, inattentive, and uncaring. I don't mean to lecture, but I keep hoping that, somehow, I can turn that trend around, whether it's at a restaurant, an amusement park, or a department store, by increasing awareness. I wrote a letter to the Michigan State Fair just the other day, commenting on the same issue. It's probably a losing battle on my part, largely because people are hesitant to change (after all, change requires effort), but I don't tend to give up easily.

Well, we'll have to agree to disagree. It's one thing to be just plain rude for no real reason. I never went off on a guest until all my patience had been exhausted. But there is a certain point where there is nothing you can do or say to please the guest, either because it's against policy or because it's just not possible (safely operating a coaster during a lightening storm, for example). Some people are just so ridiculously stubborn and I have very little patience.

I'm sorry, but rides employees definitely have more stress to deal with. While I'm sure other park employees had to listen to gripes about rides not operating, etc. we also had to endure it as well. Plus, we had to deal with safety. I doubt safety was a concern while guessing someone's weight (absent threats of violence, of course). And I'm not familiar with the Golden Ticket Award, but doesn't Cedar Point's coasters have a higher capacity (Six Flags builds it first, Cedar Point builds it bigger), which means even if they were moving slow, the troughput would still be higher. But I agree that employees are much slower and ruder now, just not so much when I worked there. Believe it or not, but Six Flags Great America was more concerned about safety then anything else. I admit that I was often berated by my superiors for my rudeness, but as I said, they looked at the context of the situation and determined that it wasn't worthy of discipline (only once was I ever formally disciplined for rudeness, then I was promoted the next day). The problem is that we live in a "me society", where if you don't have it your way then the gloves come off. I was a strict adherent to policy, and I never caved, and I think it made me seem rude when I actually wasn't being rude (and the more I think about it, I don't think I was rude per say, merely strict).

But, being rude in general is most inappropriate. But I would rather deal with a rude employee rather than a slow inattentive one. It's really hard to go to an amusement park and watch ride operators; I notice things that the vast majority of people don't, and often times that's not good.

Harpo

08-29-2003, 05:31 PM

Actually, CP's ride capacity is higher because they really hustle. At many parks, I see the employees strolling around slowly as they check harnesses. CP employees practically run down the train, while also checking carefully. It's really quite impressive to watch an experienced checker move like that.

As for the Guessing Game and safety, yes, we did have significant safety concerns. It was possible, for instance, to display items in an unsafe manner, if not careful. We were also on ladders frequently, had sometimes heavy boxes of stock to move, and we were very exposed in foul weather. Our biggest PR difficulty in foul weather was that we could not allow people to stand under our roof during a storm. There's lots of electricity coming into the building -- it's just not safe to have the public standing there during a storm. Additionally, we have had guessers that have been struck by lightning. One summer, I narrowly avoided it by dropping the microphone just in time. Ride stations usually have lots of concrete and steel in their structures. Our buildings were just thin plywood, hence we had to take a different set of precautions during harsh weather. (I had several instances where the guests couldn't understand about that. I vividly recall one guest who was swearing up a storm at me during a nasty thunderstorm. I remained polite, but instructed him that if he didn't move on and curb his language, I would have to turn him over to the Cedar Point Police Department.)

At the end of the day, it's a bit nerve-wracking to be walking through a nearly-deserted park, carrying a container full of cash, and have a guest suddenly appear saying, "Let's club him over the head and take his cash." Yes, I've been through that. They were joking, but one can't really be sure in that situation.

Sorry this was a bit rambling -- I'm typing fast. Just finishing up a training class, and they're about to close the building on me, so I've got to run soon.

IronWolf98

08-29-2003, 06:09 PM

Originally posted by Harpo
Actually, CP's ride capacity is higher because they really hustle. At many parks, I see the employees strolling around slowly as they check harnesses. CP employees practically run down the train, while also checking carefully. It's really quite impressive to watch an experienced checker move like that.

As for the Guessing Game and safety, yes, we did have significant safety concerns. It was possible, for instance, to display items in an unsafe manner, if not careful. We were also on ladders frequently, had sometimes heavy boxes of stock to move, and we were very exposed in foul weather. Our biggest PR difficulty in foul weather was that we could not allow people to stand under our roof during a storm. There's lots of electricity coming into the building -- it's just not safe to have the public standing there during a storm. Additionally, we have had guessers that have been struck by lightning. One summer, I narrowly avoided it by dropping the microphone just in time. Ride stations usually have lots of concrete and steel in their structures. Our buildings were just thin plywood, hence we had to take a different set of precautions during harsh weather. (I had several instances where the guests couldn't understand about that. I vividly recall one guest who was swearing up a storm at me during a nasty thunderstorm. I remained polite, but instructed him that if he didn't move on and curb his language, I would have to turn him over to the Cedar Point Police Department.)

At the end of the day, it's a bit nerve-wracking to be walking through a nearly-deserted park, carrying a container full of cash, and have a guest suddenly appear saying, "Let's club him over the head and take his cash." Yes, I've been through that. They were joking, but one can't really be sure in that situation.

Sorry this was a bit rambling -- I'm typing fast. Just finishing up a training class, and they're about to close the building on me, so I've got to run soon.

I didn't mean to insult you. But...it's one thing to be in danger onary things that can hurt you anywhere. It's another thing to be on the lookout for a train moving 60 mph, the people on it, the surrounding ride area, and the ride structure, in addition to watching people board a train safely, check that the restraints are properly secure, ensure that no one is the wrong side of the gates, and do this all relatively quickly. I'm sorry, but the safety of 60 people on a ride (more or less) is a far more important issue to a theme park than an employee falling off a ladder.

Your examples are of things that can happen as a result of carelessness or nature, which apply to rollercoasters and rides as well, but are less significant in comparison. The odds of a serious injury from something that could have happened with you as a weight guesser are much smaller than if an accident were to occur on a ride, as a result of it being a ride. We had to look out for some of the same things you did, but also for the ride itself. Not to mention the threats and arguing you get from parents whose children are too short, the slow woman with the stuffed animal who takes forever to walk across the platfor to put it in the bin, etc.

Not trying to say you were anyless responsible for safety, but it's minor compared to what a ride operator is responsible for. I don't know, maybe when I go to Cedar Point I shouldn't play any games, considering there's a risk of injury, more so than on a ride.

And I didn't mean to imply that Cedar Point employees didn't hustle, but again, the higher throughput can also be attributed to the physical capabilities of a ride. Not all coasters can accomodate the same number of people an hour, so it's unfair to base those things on throughput in that respect. I'm assuming it's based more on a percentage of the rides capacity that would determine if they are excelling in that respect (which is most likely the case). But, I do agree that employees seem to be getting slower and slower. Maybe I should work at my own stomping grounds on weekends and whip those people into shape. Who needs a day off? Riders themselves are slow at boarding, so you really do need a good staff to get these things moving. But in the defense of Six Flags parks, a lot of dumbass decisions were mandated by corporate (such as these awful seatbelts that never work) which contribute to the slowing of the process...oh well.

Harpo

09-02-2003, 11:53 AM

I can easily agree that more serious issues can happen on the rides. My point is that there are safety issues elsewhere in the park, too. I was reminded of one this weekend at Great America, when I saw a curtain hook lying on the ground near Demon. Those hooks are often used to hang the plush items. If a plush item is given to a child with the hook still in it, that child could wind up losing an eye.

Attentiveness of operators is one of the things I pay close attention to when I'm at an amusement park. I've seen cases where some bonehead stood up on a ride, and the operators shut it down in order to avoid injury. Those operators, in my opinion, were impressive. I've seen other cases where the ops were paying no attention to the ride operation, and those really bug me. The worst incidents I've witnessed have happened at Six Flags parks, including a week ago at La Ronde where one operator abandoned his post on the log flume ride, and a control panel operator was playing catch with a harness checker over the station track of Le Monstre coaster while the train was approaching.

I'm glad to report I didn't see any blatant cases last weekend at Great America, although I did see quite a bit of apathy. For example, there was a line attendant (for the Fast Lane at Vertical Velocity) where the attendant was using his hole puncher to punch holes in the bushes next to him. Looked very unprofessional. And, of course, it was damaging the bush. Most of the employees seemed a bit grumpy, with the notable exception of one girl working on the American Eagle. She had a nice smile, and was friendly with the guests, while also showing an effort to hustle.

As for ride design and efficiency, yes, the design can have an impact. However, there are many similar cases that can be used for comparison. For example, compare Batman to Raptor. Batman is a shorter ride, but it only has two trains. Cedar Point is generally able to keep the Raptor trains moving, with 1 in the station, and 2 in motion. If a train is stacked, it's for a very short time. With Batman and its 2 trains, one train is regularly stacked while the other is loading. Last weekend, for Vertical Velocity, the typical turnaround time for a train was about 90 seconds. For Wicked Twister, with identical seating, the turnaround time is typically 30 to 45 seconds.

The only place I did not see trains regularly getting stacked was on Raging Bull. There were 4 harness checkers on that ride, hence they were able to keep the trains moving. It proves, even Six Flags can do it if they try. As a result, I do not see any valid excuses for inefficiency.

Keep in mind, inefficiency is merely an annoyance. Inattentiveness really ticks me off. Paramount parks tend to be inefficient, but they tend to be better with their attentiveness, hence I still feel reasonably secure at those parks. I've seen too many blatant acts of inattentiveness at many Six Flags parks to truly feel secure there. (Like I said, I didn't see a blatant act of inattentiveness this weekend at Great America, so I'm hoping that's a sign of improvement. Considering the recent history at Six Flags parks, however, including a week ago at La Ronde, one visit isn't enough to convince me that the issues are truly being addressed.)

billybgate

09-02-2003, 12:07 PM

Hmm. What happened to the Great American "Service with a smile"?

I work for ASDA (bought by Wal-Mart 2 years ago) and we've been getting the service side drummed into us... "Every occasion with a customer is a moment of Truth" which basically means that if we don't provide a great service (no we don't do "have a nice now!") then we potentially lose that customer! So every Shift I try to be happy and friendly and try to make what is a boring but neccesary job a slightly happier one.

If this same principle is applied to customer service areas then we'd all be happier!

Alton Towers I have noticed does have good service with occasional blip here and there but don't we all. As Harpo said he only saw one person genuinely happy to help and Smiles are infectious...

I'd love to work for an amusement park and would try and encourage staff to be happy, because what is more off putting than bored or unhappy looking staff???

Rant over :)
Jo

IronWolf98

09-02-2003, 02:01 PM

Originally posted by Harpo

Keep in mind, inefficiency is merely an annoyance. Inattentiveness really ticks me off. Paramount parks tend to be inefficient, but they tend to be better with their attentiveness, hence I still feel reasonably secure at those parks. I've seen too many blatant acts of inattentiveness at many Six Flags parks to truly feel secure there. (Like I said, I didn't see a blatant act of inattentiveness this weekend at Great America, so I'm hoping that's a sign of improvement. Considering the recent history at Six Flags parks, however, including a week ago at La Ronde, one visit isn't enough to convince me that the issues are truly being addressed.)

I know what you mean. I hate slow ops. But some rides are too short to allow for efficiency. Batman would probably be more efficient if they would staff the platform. The problem is, the ride ops are too busy punching those stupid fastlane cards. And getting enough employees to staff rides has become increasingly difficult. But I think Great America is one of the better parks, but getting worse. I last worked there about two years ago, and that was pretty much the last efficient year we had. And it wasn't even that good. They took too much power away from the ride ops, and went a little safety crazy (you know it's bad when they put seatbelts on a scrambler!!). But when I go as a guest, or when I go to another park, the attentiveness really sticks out.

Harpo

09-02-2003, 02:27 PM

I forgot to mention this item. Since you've got a connection with Iron Wolf, you might be able to shed some light on it. I meant to mention it to the Guest Services office when I left that night, but, with running later than I'd intended, I just plain forgot.

Without seeing the schematics and specs for the Iron Wolf harness, I can't really say if what I observed was a serious safety issue, or merely an unfortunate comfort issue. While I'm guessing you've not looked into the schematics for this issue, I'm hoping it may have come up when you were there, hence you may know of a result relating to this issue.

Keep in mind, I've been on quite a few standup coasters, including those made by B&M, Intamin, and Togo. Those coasters include riding on Iron Wolf a couple of years ago.

When the train was leaving the station, I noticed an unusual amount of rotational deflection between my seat and the train's deck panel. In other words, the seat twisted along its vertical axis. While I would expect rotational slop on a Togo standup, I've not experienced it on a B&M or Intamin, hence the rotation was quite noticeable to me. While going up the lift, I was able to verify that the harness had a rotational instability.

Now, I figure that instability could be from a variety of causes, some dangerous, some insignificant. For example, I could envision that the mechanism has either springs or pads to dampen the rotational movement. In one mechanism I could envision, failure of these springs or pads would merely cause a less-comfortable ride, but would not be a significant safety hazard. In another mechanism I could envision, such wear could lead to torsional stresses that could lead to catastrophic failure. I could also see where the rotational movement could be due to bolts that are not fastened to the proper torque, which could lead to either torsional or shearing stresses leading to a catastrophic failure.

I'm hoping that it's the first scenario, where the failure merely makes the ride less comfortable. Did you ever encounter a seat on Iron Wolf with excessive rotational slop? If so, was there a maintenance decision indicating if the situation may have been a serious safety issue? (Of course, from a comfort standpoint, it's still a bit of a safety issue. The loose harness structure made it difficult to stand in such a way as to avoid being smacked in the head by the harness. I needed a couple of aspirin after that ride! But, that's insignificant compared to if shearing or torsional stresses should cause the seat to break apart during riding.)

Do you have a contact you could call to check into it? I don't recall the train number, but the seat was the rear right seat.

Oh, I should also mention... I had a friend with me on this trip. While going up the lift, she also tried to rotate her seat in the method that I was using. Hers did not have the rotational slop, so I know it wasn't common through all seats.

Thanks.

IronWolf98

09-04-2003, 03:26 PM

Originally posted by Harpo
I forgot to mention this item. Since you've got a connection with Iron Wolf, you might be able to shed some light on it. I meant to mention it to the Guest Services office when I left that night, but, with running later than I'd intended, I just plain forgot.

Without seeing the schematics and specs for the Iron Wolf harness, I can't really say if what I observed was a serious safety issue, or merely an unfortunate comfort issue. While I'm guessing you've not looked into the schematics for this issue, I'm hoping it may have come up when you were there, hence you may know of a result relating to this issue.

Keep in mind, I've been on quite a few standup coasters, including those made by B&M, Intamin, and Togo. Those coasters include riding on Iron Wolf a couple of years ago.

When the train was leaving the station, I noticed an unusual amount of rotational deflection between my seat and the train's deck panel. In other words, the seat twisted along its vertical axis. While I would expect rotational slop on a Togo standup, I've not experienced it on a B&M or Intamin, hence the rotation was quite noticeable to me. While going up the lift, I was able to verify that the harness had a rotational instability.

Now, I figure that instability could be from a variety of causes, some dangerous, some insignificant. For example, I could envision that the mechanism has either springs or pads to dampen the rotational movement. In one mechanism I could envision, failure of these springs or pads would merely cause a less-comfortable ride, but would not be a significant safety hazard. In another mechanism I could envision, such wear could lead to torsional stresses that could lead to catastrophic failure. I could also see where the rotational movement could be due to bolts that are not fastened to the proper torque, which could lead to either torsional or shearing stresses leading to a catastrophic failure.

I'm hoping that it's the first scenario, where the failure merely makes the ride less comfortable. Did you ever encounter a seat on Iron Wolf with excessive rotational slop? If so, was there a maintenance decision indicating if the situation may have been a serious safety issue? (Of course, from a comfort standpoint, it's still a bit of a safety issue. The loose harness structure made it difficult to stand in such a way as to avoid being smacked in the head by the harness. I needed a couple of aspirin after that ride! But, that's insignificant compared to if shearing or torsional stresses should cause the seat to break apart during riding.)

Do you have a contact you could call to check into it? I don't recall the train number, but the seat was the rear right seat.

Oh, I should also mention... I had a friend with me on this trip. While going up the lift, she also tried to rotate her seat in the method that I was using. Hers did not have the rotational slop, so I know it wasn't common through all seats.

Thanks.

I really never noticed it. I would imagine it is a result of wear and tear, but not really dangerous. Maintenance inspects the trains daily before allowing the train to operate, and would have fixed it if they thought it to be dangerous. Keep in mind, these are the oldest B&M trains in the market, but the harnesses were replaced three years ago (I hate them, the old ones were better). Since I was at the Whizzer that year, I honestly couldn't tell you if it's a common occurence or not. I'll have to check it out when I go, but I doubt it would be anything to worry about. Since it's B&M, I would assume it's designed that way, it may just simply be a bit loose.

And as a side note, generally any ride complaints made to guest relations are generally ignored. The best thing would be to ask for the ride lead and have him/her check on it. Though not maintenance, he/she can spot whether or not to call for maintenance. I used to ask maintenance about things guests would comment on, just so I had the answer the next time the question is asked. If it is something extremely noticeable and doesn't look normal, the ride op can simply tie off that particualr seat.

Harpo

09-04-2003, 03:48 PM

You're right -- I should have mentioned it to the platform attendants, but I couldn't see any as I was leaving the ride. I'm sure they were up there somewhere, but I just didn't spot them. If I had spotted them, I would have commented to them.

As for ordinary wear-and-tear, I'd expect that I'd have felt something similar on at least one other B&M standup (and I've been on 6 of them), hence my concern. Knowing the age of the ride is part of what adds to the concern. If it were brand-new, I'd feel it was part of the design. Being older, I have to wonder if a failure is in progress, where some aged parts need to be replaced.

Anyway, I was hoping you may know someone there to simply comment about it to them, so maintenance can do a double-check on the seat in question.

IronWolf98

09-04-2003, 04:33 PM

Originally posted by Harpo
You're right -- I should have mentioned it to the platform attendants, but I couldn't see any as I was leaving the ride. I'm sure they were up there somewhere, but I just didn't spot them. If I had spotted them, I would have commented to them.

As for ordinary wear-and-tear, I'd expect that I'd have felt something similar on at least one other B&M standup (and I've been on 6 of them), hence my concern. Knowing the age of the ride is part of what adds to the concern. If it were brand-new, I'd feel it was part of the design. Being older, I have to wonder if a failure is in progress, where some aged parts need to be replaced.

Anyway, I was hoping you may know someone there to simply comment about it to them, so maintenance can do a double-check on the seat in question.

I'll mention it to one of the rides full-times next time I see them. I'm sure it's nothing to worry about, though.

beck2003

09-04-2003, 11:05 PM

lemme start all over. i agree, the past two years for the vu has not been impressive. last year yes, the loading time was impeckable, however that is not taking into the fact that it may not be a lazy staff 100% of the time like some people are making it out to be. i agree i became really defensive and that is my fault, and i probably didnt make a good name for myself. but i do have to get on the defense about a couple of things said sense then. i never said that dejavu was the most popular ride in the park because we had the longest line in the park. it is literally the most popular ride in the park. and yes there are tons of people who would do anything to ride it. i know, when i am handling the q-bots every now and then people will come up the line 2 hours early and give me every excuse to get on the ride that very minute...not because they dont want to wait, because they cant wait! imnot saying my performance is flawless but most of the time the whole loading unloading situation is not the employees fault, it is honestly the guests holding the trains up. im not hating on the guests, cause it really dosent bother me one bit. but i have had furious guests who lost their cell phone (despite the specific warnings i give everyone before and while boarding) and demands me to go into the track area the find it, even though i have explained to them that no one is allowed into the track area until the ride has been properly shut down at the end of the night. there was another time when the train was held up because a girl passed out because it was 97 degrees out! it could be anything ya'll. i was only defensive a while back cause someone was telling me how i should do my job, when they dont know how to do the jobs themselves. and for customer service? im not in uniform so customer service does not really apply here. i mean that in a way that means i shouldnt have to be understanding and careful what i say cause im worried whether or not the person will report to guest relations. what im trying to say is this is all open discussion, and i obviously know my job better that someone who dosent. so dont hate...appreciate! lol

beck2003

09-04-2003, 11:07 PM

p.s. so many people think to know why the ride breaks down...im just curious if anyone really knows the true reasons, and what the actual reasons are that read on the ESI screen on the control panel? i think this would make good discussion, cause i know what the real reasons are and you might be shocked by what they actually are....stupid reasons!

Wolsey

09-05-2003, 07:11 AM

Originally posted by billybgate
Hmm. What happened to the Great American "Service with a smile"?

I work for ASDA (bought by Wal-Mart 2 years ago) and we've been getting the service side drummed into us... "Every occasion with a customer is a moment of Truth" which basically means that if we don't provide a great service (no we don't do "have a nice now!") then we potentially lose that customer! So every Shift I try to be happy and friendly and try to make what is a boring but neccesary job a slightly happier one.

If this same principle is applied to customer service areas then we'd all be happier!

Alton Towers I have noticed does have good service with occasional blip here and there but don't we all. As Harpo said he only saw one person genuinely happy to help and Smiles are infectious...

I'd love to work for an amusement park and would try and encourage staff to be happy, because what is more off putting than bored or unhappy looking staff???

Rant over :)
Jo

I agree, When I go Alton Towers I don't have any problems with staff, they seem okay.

Same can be said about Blackpool, although they interact with the guests more.

Its funny on the big one, this girl climbed over the q-line gate, she didn't push, she just couldnt be bothered walking round and round to get to it, and when she got there, because she climbed over, the lad who worked there made her walk all the way around to the entrance and back again, and he made her do it again afterwards, i was crying with laughter.

Most of the staff at Blackpool, despite what people say, are great, no problems with them what so ever. Sure..theres the odd occasion where you might get a problem, but most of them are really friendly, and amusing.

I think theres definitley a good working atmosphere there. Which is one of the reasons why I'd love to work there.

iAMpaste001

09-05-2003, 09:54 AM

Originally posted by beck2003
and for customer service? im not in uniform so customer service does not really apply here. i mean that in a way that means i shouldnt have to be understanding and careful what i say cause im worried whether or not the person will report to guest relations.

I understand the rest of your argument but I have to say I don't quite understand that part I quoted. I mean, it's true if they don't know you're a worker they can't report you. But customer service isn't about making sure you don't get caught if you're being rude. It's about not being rude in the first place. Customer Service: serving the CUSTOMER in the best way possible, not serving your own interests. I'm not trying to cause a whole other argument here, I just think that's not the best attitude to have towards your job and the guests on your ride. By the way, guests are not always that stupid- uniform or not, they can probably figure out who you are based on what you're doing and it's a bad reflection on the park and on your ride if you're acting in a way that someone might report.

IronWolf98

09-05-2003, 01:23 PM

Originally posted by iAMpaste001
I understand the rest of your argument but I have to say I don't quite understand that part I quoted. I mean, it's true if they don't know you're a worker they can't report you. But customer service isn't about making sure you don't get caught if you're being rude. It's about not being rude in the first place. Customer Service: serving the CUSTOMER in the best way possible, not serving your own interests. I'm not trying to cause a whole other argument here, I just think that's not the best attitude to have towards your job and the guests on your ride. By the way, guests are not always that stupid- uniform or not, they can probably figure out who you are based on what you're doing and it's a bad reflection on the park and on your ride if you're acting in a way that someone might report.

I didn't quite get it either. How could he not be in uniform? All Six Flags parks require their employees to be in costume (theme park talk for uniform). Even when I transferred to the operations office the last month I worked at SFGrAm, I still had to wear my costume in case I neede to operate a ride during short-staffing days. But I tend to disagree with guests aren't all that stupid. I would say 98% of slow dispatches are caused by guests. I say this because I worked at the Whizzer, which only had a seatbelt. There was only a visual check of the train. And we still had problems with intervals.

beck2003

09-05-2003, 05:14 PM

about the uniform thing, i said that because someone said i was using bad customer service, and to me customer service applies at the park, dealing with customers while im in uniform doing my job. someone said a while back that i was giving a bad name to six flags cause i called someone stupid. just because i have a job somewhere that requires me to have good customer service means i am restrictes to call someone stupid when im not on the job, when the person really honestly doesnt know what theyre talking about?! i think i have that right, and yes when im at work i am extremely cautious and never call a customer stupid for any reason no matter how mad they made me or whatever. all i have been trying to say this whole time is, if your going to talk junk at least have some facts to back yourself up! especially when your argueing with someone who knows that facts, for a fact! lol. trust me i know, i have worked 6 days a week every day this past summer, i do the paperwork for the ride and i deal with rude, angry and confused customers everyday i work. it is in my jobs description...while im there i cant tell them theyre wrong cause im on the job, but here someone was wrong and i let them know they were. shame on me huh? anyway....how bout them falcons? lol (they suck)

droiddotbot

09-20-2003, 09:37 PM

If you look at uk's parks and wonderd why that around noon why guests start the ritual daily stream of complaints and general moaning at the monkeys when the organ-grinder has already started totaling gate reciepts and extortionate prices and long queues and any form of weather or anything 'closed' or 'out of order' or huge traffic jams causing local gridlock to enter the car-parks, or 'staff on a try your luck game giving 2 for 1 offers' or quite frankly hearing anything, have added to guests frustrations and the entertainers have vanished into staff rooms for food, drink and obligetory smoke. as have around 10% of each departments staff! (seems to be modeled on a pc game I stumbled across many years later)

I was the head arcades technitian and was actually called at around 10pm one night to return to the park to 'assist repair' of a major ride. youve seen the racks of circuit-boards that are housed in the control (box 10ftx5ftx6ft) not the operators box!, whilst on the phone to the designer/installer in a foreign country.
I personally found and fixed the dry-joint and all was good, (except a very nervous part finding a section of test pins that resembled a modern pc's cpu's underside and being very carefully talked through which pins could theiorhetically launch the cars out of the park- some fault finding is done power on!) The height of summer season, the tourists, the female locals, the adjoining nightclub, . . . 'those were the best days of my life'

The sister park was too big (land wize) and not enough around it.
like Leafy Lake really TTFN