Forced labor ?

[silentrogue30]

Okay I never messed with this, always left it on. I was wondering what happens if you turn this off and during the coarse of a game you colonize worlds that have the labor special what happens to them? Does not matter or are they freed and become productive members of your empire? If they don't then there is no point in not allowing forced labor other then the moral objections, but then its only a game so bye bye morals hello dark side of my soul.:D

[Severus Snape]

What I'm sure of:
1) Forced labor units are created over time (apparently from thin air) and assigned to your DEA's. Your Oppressometer rating has a direct effect on how many FLU's are created.
2) FLU's increase the productivity of the DEA they're assigned to, by an amount depending on how high your Forced Labor setting is. The higher the setting, the more productive they are, but the quicker they die.
3) Creating FLU's does not cost population points or slow your population growth, and liberating your FLU's does not add population. This would seem to be a bug.
4) Using FLU's increases unrest based on your Forced Labor scale setting, but the increase they grant in productivity is worth the relatively small unrest bump. (that last part was opinion)

What I'm not sure of:
1) How FLU's are assigned. I've noticed in most of my games that early FLU's are almost exclusively assigned to Mining and Bioharvest DEA's, and then they spread out as the game progresses.
2) The "Labor" planetary special is alleged to not create more FLU's, but to give an efficiency bonus to any DEA's in that region.
3) It has been suggested that multi-racial Empires (incorporating magnate and conquered races) spawn more FLU's, but I don't know if this is true.

I didn't use them for my first several games (ethics), but then I started and found them quite helpful. The first game in which I used them, I played up to turn 50, saved the game, turned FL off, and hit the "turn" button. The drop in my production in all areas was very dramatic when I liberated the FLU's.

[RobNelson]

To add to "What I'm sure of":

5) FLU's have nothing to do with Forced Labor specials. The 2 are completely separate things with a similar name. Forced Labor specials will NEVER add any population to your empire. (They add money).

[silentrogue30]

Okay, thank you both for the added incite into this subject. It will help out alot I think. So to some up flu add more production in whatever dea they or in. The labor special just gives you more money under economic flu production, and there is no way to get them into your society. Bummer guess it is time to throw the ethics book out the window along with few morals I have. Hello profits beware flu's your gonna get worked to death after it is only a game so I can indulge my darkside right.:D If any new info comes to light please feel free to add it and thanx again everyone .

[viciouscycle]

Organic FLUs are generated when you colonize a planet with a racial labor special. I don't think this is how the game was intended to work but it does in fact happen. If anyone doubts this, I have a saved game to prove it.

I have a game saved at turn one where I'm playing as Evon. In my home system is a yellow2 planet with a Bulrathi labor special. Without targetting migration, you can have this planet up to full colony status by turn 7. On turn 8, organic FLUs appear on your homeworld in alomst every region. If you colonize any other planet in the system or don't colonize anything at all, you will not get an organic FLUs on your homeworld.

You will not create organic FLUs over time out of thin air. You will create robotic FLUs when you get the appropriate technology and your government allows the use of FLUs.

I'm still not sure yet as to whether or not organic FLUs are actually created when you capture enemy planets.

[RobNelson]

I routinely see organic FLUs without the Forced Labor special. They are created by your government policy. At the mid-range level, FLUs pop up around turn 8-12.

[viciouscycle]

Originally posted by RobNelson
I routinely see organic FLUs without the Forced Labor special. They are created by your government policy. At the mid-range level, FLUs pop up around turn 8-12.

No. This is not true at all. This has come up before and I have found my old notes on this issue and have gone back to perform some more tests. Organic FLUs are created by labor specials or by the introduction of alien population to your empire. Alien population can be added to your empire in a number of ways: 1) the founding of a colony on a magnate world; 2) the conquest of an enemy colony; 3) the creation of a colony on an outpost containing alien population; 4) recieving a colony comprised of alien population as a gift from another empire.

Your FLU policy only determines whether or not you will use the FLUs generated under these preceding conditions. If you have FLUs in your empire and you then change your policy to disallow the use of FLUs, all your existing FLUs will be lost. It appears that "freed" FLUs just disappear and do not turn into population. If you have not been allowing FLUs in your empire and you then change your policy to allow FLU usage, organic FLUs will start appearing in your empire if you have alien populations.

[RobNelson]

You had me question myself enough to run a small experiment.

I just started a new game as stock Nommo, here's the results.

Turn: 15
Planets: 3
Systems: 1
Forced Labor Specials: 0
Magnates in empire: 0
Total races in empire: 1 (Mine)
Gov: Oligarchy
Forced Labor Setting: 5
FLUs: 1

So, from this I conclude that FLUs are produced in ways other than, forced labor specials, getting magnates, conquering enemies, creation of a colony on an outpost containing alien population, or recieving planets as gifts.

I can send you a saved game if you want it.

My next experiment wll be to determine the effect of fire... on gasoline. :D

[Severus Snape]

Originally posted by RobNelson
You had me question myself enough to run a small experiment.

I just started a new game as stock Nommo, here's the results.

Turn: 15
Planets: 3
Systems: 1
Forced Labor Specials: 0
Magnates in empire: 0
Total races in empire: 1 (Mine)
Gov: Oligarchy
Forced Labor Setting: 5
FLUs: 1

So, from this I conclude that FLUs are produced in ways other than, forced labor specials, getting magnates, conquering enemies, creation of a colony on an outpost containing alien population, or recieving planets as gifts.

I have to agree. I have seen FLU's created in multiple games when I had only my native race populating my planets, and I had not settled any worlds with the Forced Labor special. Again, I have heard that adding non-native populations to your empire increases the number of FLU's you have, but I haven't tested to verify this. I can verify from experience that the initial creation of FLU's depends ONLY on whether you allow them on the Empire Screen, and the speed with which they are created is related to your oppressometer settings.

[EmperorKosh]

All I can say to those who have ethical issues with forced labor is this:

"The superior man seeks what is right, the inferior one, what is profitable." -Confucius

[neatstuff]

Originally posted by EmperorKosh
All I can say to those who have ethical issues with forced labor is this:

"The superior man seeks what is right, the inferior one, what is profitable." -Confucius

Yet in the world of empires, superiority is naught but strength.

MOO3 really doesn't seem to implement (or at least tell you anything about) any great weaknesses to FLUs, so enslave away.

Really, I haven't seen any big penalties to FLUs, neither in diplomacy (everyone else has it on, and they all get along), growth, or unrest. Perhaps the side effects are easily offset by techs.

[RobNelson]

I have noticed an unrest penalty (as Nommo, other empires may not find it noticeable). Also, if in the Senate, the Forced Labor Reparations will occasionally take a bite of your savings (no big deal there).

[Lennier]

Originally posted by RobNelson
You had me question myself enough to run a small experiment.

I just started a new game as stock Nommo, here's the results.

Turn: 15
Planets: 3
Systems: 1
Forced Labor Specials: 0
Magnates in empire: 0
Total races in empire: 1 (Mine)
Gov: Oligarchy
Forced Labor Setting: 5
FLUs: 1

So, from this I conclude that FLUs are produced in ways other than, forced labor specials, getting magnates, conquering enemies, creation of a colony on an outpost containing alien population, or recieving planets as gifts.These FLUs are the native "enemies of the state." How many Russians ended up in Stalin's labor camps?

[silentrogue30]

gee it would be easier to figure out how many didn't.:D

[mallipeep]

This (and few other threads that came up with search) helped me a bit in understanding FLU's but i have few questions that someone might have answers...

It is said that oppressometer setting affects creation of FLU's...
does that mean that higher setting gives more FLU's or lower setting gives more FLU's???

Also, it is said that Forced Labour slider affects the effect of FLU's and the rate at which they disappear ( that being 3%*slider )
The question here is, does optimal goverment rating affect the disappearance or effect ratio? Like, if i have despotism i can push workers at slider 7 and they disappear at the same rate as in democracy slider set at 2?

And i have yet to understand if FLU affects your population growth or not, and if yes does the FLU slider setting affect too or just allowing, disallowing..

[cousLee]

<<< watches with interest.

All I know, is it seems I get a butload of FLUs after colonizing a labor special.

And if the labor special does give you FLUs, then do they also preform best of their race's sweet spots as opposed to red 1&2s?

If the FLUs are sweet for a planet that is red 1 to you, could that be the cause of those weird auto outposts on nasty azz worlds?

[Lennier]

FLUs are not the cause of the wierd auto-outposts. If you have migration set to enough planets, your citizens start thinking "hey, the grass must be greener on that other planet" even if the 'other planet' isn't one marked for migration. There is a mod to one of the spreadsheets out there to make red & yellow planets look less attractive to migrants.

[tardis]

FLUs require less money to operate, just 5% of the production in gold. However, making FLUs causes alien population to drop (1 per FLU). Citizens may start to riot a bit, especially when using a representative government and lowered citizen loyalty.