Space Combat Doctrine

[Strifeguard]

After reading several posts today I began to realize that the Moo3 players out there really do have many different "space combat doctrines", so I hope to get a list here of what kinds of strategies different players employ when "taking the helm" in space-combat.

I have 2 different "combat doctrines" that I employ:

Doctrine 1 involves a mized fleet, usually 9 TFs (leaving room for 1 Transport TF), is a mix of IF, LR, and Reacon.

4 IF Armadas set to unleash *at least* 3 volleys of missiles act as "artillery" while 3 LR armadas and 2 Reacon armadas advance on the enemy. Usually the Reacon armadas are set up as anti-carrier TFs are with overlapping fields of PD.

The goal is to keep the LR and Reacon forces between the enemy and the my IF forces. The IF ships can focus their fire on anything that might give my LR/Reacon forces a problem (planetary batteries, SR, and LR forces) while my LR and Reacon ships try to get into beam range and wipe out enemy Carrier and IF forces.

Usually this doctrine works best in the early game, when it can take many missile volleys to disable enemy ships (read: before powerful warheads and bigger missile chassis are available), so you usually have to rely on a few "big guns" to really take out an enemy.

Doctrine 2 uses a more "standard" fleet. In this case I use all "IF" armadas, with each armada set up to release only 1 or 2 massive, devestating, volleys of missiles. Each TF is equipped, not only with IF ships, but also with LR and SR craft.

The goal here is to completely decimate an enemy force with the first wave of missiles, and then use numbers to win.

Since my TFs, because they're stacke with 1 or 2 shot missiles in this case, cannot usually win 1-on-1 with enemy SR or LR forces, I need to use numbers to win. Usually, if I've kept up tech-wise, it isn't hard to wipe out 50% of the enemy fleet with the opening volley of missiles, allowing the kind of numerical superiority necessary to win after that point.

Usually Doctrine 1 results in far fewer losses on my part as a poor initial missile volley can result in near-disaster using Doctrine 2, but Doctrine 2 allows more flexibility, and usually allows me to employ cheaper, less speacialized ships.

[Tehom]

In the unmodified game, I found my doctrine to be very much driven by my current technology level. In general though, I would lean towards predominantly indirect fire task forces with long range attack task forces that serve only as point defense, switching in carriers instead of indirect fire for planetary invasion. Once I get ion fighters, I use them pretty much exclusively, with the exception of using short range attack armadas with lightning field generators as point defense for my fleets later on.

My tactical doctrine was shaped by a need to always be on the offensive; using carriers and indirect fire, a defender being pinned against a planet is a huge disadvantage. Whenever possible, I'd attack a planet, and use that to smash defending fleets. Typically, I would neither invade nor bombard a planet to death until an enemy runs out of reserves and is completely helpless. At that point, you can just roll through the remainder of his worlds as he puts out a pathetic handful of ships every few turns.

[neatstuff]

I don't usually have time for long plays, so this is for going against the AI.

I usually settle on a mix of one or 2 short, 3 IF, and the rest carrier tfs.

Actually, my Short range ships are little more than glorified pd ships with heavy armor, shields, and highest speed engines. I usually settle on a series of light, standard, and heavy mounts of two beam weapons of small size. For the majority of a game, I usually have LFGs and improved, autofire, minimized Ion Cannons equipped.

IF and CV ships have medium armor and light shields, as well as a small battery of light and standard beam weapons. The rest on the carriers is filled with all the interceptors (ion cannon if possible) it can carry.

IF ships carry the latest warheads, usually a stack of the heaviest, medium, and pd warheads. Early on, I usually only include 2 salvos, 3 midgame, and 4 late. I'm more interested in breaking down any strong direct fire tfs right off and using the faster recharging smaller racks to weaken shields for the fighters.

I like to get to maximum number of tfs of armada size as soon as possible, so it usually means I stay a size grade or two below maximum available for some time.
The smaller recon ships on each tf have one beam weapon of longest range on the heaviest mount available(actually, all my ships tend to have this weapon for detection, I just update recons more often). Each recon design is either as fast or faster than the predominant SR design.

I use no cloaks, ECM, or ECCM.

On planetary assaults, I send one fighter group towards the planet's base. Usually, the long detection range of the recons keeps me far from any defenders, and I use their planetary base against them. Once the fighters see any defending task forces moving to intercept, I fire off all the remaining fighters and missiles at those defenders. Those frontline defense ships are usually SR, LR, and system ships, so it's getting the big guns that can do the most damage out of the way.

In preparation for any IF and fighter retaliation, I have all my ships move towards the same spot and huddle within their overlapping fields of fire, this is why I keep some standard and heavy mounts on the ships.

I try to keep the expendable SR tfs at the front, since if anyone is going to take a hit, it would be them. This helps since it is still possible to overwhelm pd, and there is usually a 25% chance that the pd logic screws up and watches the first missile salvo hit without firing back. Does that pd nuclear missile workaround still work?

Usually, the fighter swarms and missiles polish off the bases and orbitals in less than 60 seconds. The rest of the battle is spent launching as many waves at any lurking carriers and missile boats. Usually, their firepower is insufficient to destroy all the fighters before they are replaced, meaning they never have a chance to hide.

In open space, I have the short range ships take point slightly ahead of the other tfs. Once they pick up what is probably another direct fire tf, the ships fall back to the huddle. I then send fighters and missiles after the strung-out enemy.
It is best to target every carrier and if tf at one target, as then they can destroy as many ships as possible before defensive fire starts.

With planetary defense, I basically huddle the ships. If know I will be outnumbered before the battle, I will scrap all planetary bases. I count on the orbitals(carrier, mostly), short range, and system ships to take any missiles and then try to acquire one target on sensors for the IF and carriers.

Overall, the primary threats to a tf from the AI are the initial charge of direct fire ships, and then any heavy missile salvos.
The first missile and fighter wave usually takes care of any direct fire ships. Since armadas of IF and carrier have a complement of short range escorts, their combined fire can usually destroy most missiles and quickly eliminate fighters. Usually, this means my tfs are invisible by mid-battle.

The big losers here (besides the AI) are planetary bases and long-range tfs. On planetary assaults, I rarely lose more than a few ships, if any, if there is a base to use as a guide.

Long range ships essentially have no point in this strategy. Their medium firepower is muzzled by the fact that their detection range is limited to their weapon range--something even a single gun and a fighter swarm can supply far more reliably--and the increased size and long recharge times of their primary weapons tends to allow missiles and fighters the chance to sneak in.

[Nobunaga]

I am a relentless attacking machine with an old computer, so my strategy takes those 2 factors into account.

My taskforces tend to be balanced between carriers, IF ships and beam ships, usually 6 each. The beam ships are tasked to pd and recon, but will light up an enemy task force with equal facility if required. I make special purpose task forces for specific jobs, like planet glassing or guardian hunting. The only ships i ever obsolete are troopships, other hulls are still good for anti piracy long after their allotted span is over.

As far as tactics go, if im outnumbered, i hang back and try to let the AI come at me one task force at a time and whittle them down. If i outnumber the com, i go right for them to try to get as many kills as i can before they jet

[Rover]

My doctrine relies heavily on large numbers of PD missile salvos. I find that the rate of fire of the PD missile launcher more than makes up for the reduced damage done by the PD chassis. This tactic takes advantage of the time delay that the adversary has in switching targets. He might destroy the first salvo from a particular TF, but with the rate of fire of the PD missile launcher, the second and third salvos are already on top of him, and usually impact without taking any defensive fire.

This “overwhelming number of targets” technique works very well. I size my attack force depending on the strength of the target system, of course, but even for weaker targets I try to put at least three TFs of IF ships. Three small TFs are better than one large TF, since they generate three times as many targets. I find that, with less than three TFs, an enemy defensive system can handle the problem of incoming targets too easily.

My main IF capital ship has a handful of defensive weapons (light-mount LFGs and phasers with as many improvements as I have), a long-range spinal mount to provide visibility, and the bulk of the onboard space is filled up with PD missiles mounted in six packs.

This design works well in Watch mode (I get disgusted by the collision avoidance behavior in Control Combat mode). When attacking a planet, the PD missiles begin to stream in, the first or second salvo take out the planetary bases. By then, there is a RIVER of PD salvos streaming from my TFs to the planet, the first salvo has spotted the orbitals and defending TFs, and the follow-on salvos peel off against the other targets, which they’re already almost on top of. Once THOSE targets are destroyed, the river of salvos takes out whatever enemy missiles and fighters are still coming at me.

Variations on the design of this IF capital ship include, space permitting (and usually starting when I can build Dreadnoughts and larger):
1. two or three single-shot missile launchers of the heaviest mount I have, armored and armor piercing, in the hopes that these will slip in past the enemy defenses with the first salvo, while the enemy is contending with the PD missiles, and/or
2. two or three SCF fighters (a particularly attractive option when ion fighters are available), since these will complicate the enemy’s targeting even more (he can’t fire at the missiles and fighters both).

My IF TFs also include a handful of dedicated PD ships of the same hull size. If I know I’ll be adding SR TFs to the attacking force (next discussion), I might only put 2-3 PD ships in the escorts screen, otherwise 5-6, especially before I have LFGs and improved Phasers.

In my larger battles, I also throw in a couple of SR TFs. These are really PD TFs, since they have the minimum number of core SR ships and max out their TF size with PD ships. Their primary mission is to absorb the enemy’s missile and fighter barrages. In WATCH mode, they will move ahead of the IF TFs, and so will be the focus of the enemy counterattack. They are often lost, but I figure that they take out a lot of the enemy’s missiles and fighters that would have done a lot MORE damage to the IF TFs, which are more lightly defended, relatively speaking. The SR TFs have the secondary mission of closing to finish off the enemy, should my IF TFs run out of missiles (occasionally this happens, and I am in WATCH mode, so even if there’s just a handful of enemy interceptors left, I have no way to make the IF TFs go in after them; the SR TFs will close and attack them automatically, although this is a bit buggy). My SR and PD ships are the biggest hulls I can make (not necessarily so for the IF ships), with full armor and shields, and whatever is the best targeting system I have (just in case that works). I still put a few three-pack racks of PD missiles on them, and later a couple of ion fighters, just to add to the number of targets that the enemy has to deal with in the first waves.

Rover

[Aardgoya]

I use only LR armadas (as soon as I can).

I make a mix of LR ships - all with best armor & shield.
Straight LR
LR+missle
LR+carrier
LR+lots of PD

I do make RECON and TROOP type ships but both Recon and Troop ships are best armor and have LR & PD weapons.

I tired of my task forces splitting up and getting picked off by the enemy. The LR task forces stick together an fight to the finish as a group.:)

[Patton1942]

I use 2 general strategies in my games.

1.) Early Game: I use design specific ships. Each ship is optimized for its mission role. My Fleet breakdown is usually something like

4 LR Armadas
2 IF Armadas
2 CV Armadas
2 Transports

I move methodically, invade, secure and move on. I rarely skip planets or systems, but I am willing to glass the odd cr@pball planet.

2.) Mid game and on: I use more flexable designs. I design fewer ships, and maximize the numbers of one type. Usually a LR ship. I will put either 4, single shot missiles, or 2, 2-3 shot missiles on a LR ship, or I'll use a handful of fighters depending on mod, needs and weapons available.

I always include a goodly amount of PD on every ship I design once I have a good PD weapon.
My fleet composition will by this time look something like this:
5 LR Armadas
1-2 CV Armada
0-1 IF Armadas
2-3 Transports

depending on the situation.

The nice thing with this setup is that the AI's tendency to retreat immediately will give your ships just enough time to launch all the missiles, and maybe, MAYBE, get a LR volley off before the AI scoots. The heavy beam concentration of the LR ships pretty much insures the AI flees, and that first volley of missiles will just tear apart everything. The fighters will mop up the few orbitals that remain and just in case the AI stays, your LR ships will wipe the floor with them.

With my mod, I've decided its better to put fewer missile tubes, with more reloads. This seems to be a more effiecient use of power. Since the entire missile volley can only strike one target, I've seen far too many uber volleys hit that single stupid colony ship the AI always seems to have hanging around. this way, the volley might not destroy the entire TF, but it will damage it pretty well, and another volley can always hit it as well.

Also, I've done my best to keep the AI in combat longer, so the need to do max damage right off the bat isn't there anymore.

Finally, as a bit of stupid rollplaying fun I name my Armadas with a specific system that actually helps me.

I use a dual number system and then a short description. Each group of 10 TF (fleet) will have a number designation. I will use specific numbers for what I feel will be powerful fleets (I like the 3rd, 7th, 8th, 12 and 13th fleets in particular) so each TF in that fleet with start with the fleet number.

The second number is just a space keeper for the TF's position in that fleet. I use that to keep straight what is what, incase I seperate a fleet for some reason.

Finally, I will use a short description of whats in the TF. LR, SR, CV, or Plasma, HB (hard beams), etc. if something exceptional warrents attention. Therefore my fleets look like this:

3rd Fleet, my heavy assault fleet will be this:

3-1 SR Plasma (or howerver much will fit)
3-2 SR Plasma
3-4 LR IPCa (autofire Ion Pulse Cannons)
3-5 LR Pha (autofire Phasors)
3-6 CV SCFPls (Star Control Fighters, Plasma)
3-7 IF XRyLgt (Light Missile Chassis, X-Ray Laser Warheads)
3-8 IF XryLgt
3-9 T_ArmorAe (transport, Armor Army: Experienced)
3-10 T_ArmorAc (transport, Armor Army: Crack)

With this naming convention I not only feel more attached to my fleets, but I've found its not only easier to reassemble particularly effective fleets, but also to replace specific elements as they take combat losses. Its easy to find where a specific transport TF is supposed to go and whats on it, and I can easily keep obsolete TF's out of front line combat and use them for rearguard and unrest reduction.

Ocassionally I get really odd names like 3-10TMrAvx133 (a veteran Marine Army on new, x133 warp spd transports) due to space limitations but most of the time I can figure out what I ment when I typed it ;)

[Severus Snape]

My fleet-composition doctrine is to mix LR and IF armadas, with the occassional CV armada thrown in once I've researched a decent fighter weapon (like Fighter Ion Cannons). I've recently tried mixed LR armadas (half LR ships, half IF or CV ships in the Core), and had great success with that.
I have never run into any problem with Point Defense, and I never build dedicated Point Defense or PD-oriented Recon armadas. I make sure every armada I build has at least 4 PD ships in the Escort Ring, and usually put a few small PD weapons (light mount) on my core ships. I very rarely lose a ship to even the heaviest missle volley or fighter assault, as the overlapping PD fire from my task forces takes the offending weapons out before they reach my ships. Again, I must point out that I've only played the AI and never multiplayer, so I've never faced a horde of enemy IF armadas (as might be the case if an intelligent human were building the enemy fleets).

[ThunderHammer]

I mainly use 4 LR armadas and 4-5 CV armadas. I leave the tenth space open for a transport group if I'm invading. My LR armadas consist of 8 dedicated LR ships, 8 PD ships, and 2 recon. My carrier fleets get usually 10-12 carriers, 4-6 PD, and 2 Recons.

I equip my LR ships with the longest range mount available, either a spinal or heavy mount. I tend to favour plasma cannons on these ships with both on each of the highest detection array and eccm available.(IMO they take up a small amount of space and are good insurance. I also don't seem to have any kind of detection problem and can usually see the enemy before they see me.) I slap on the fastest drives and fill the rest of the space up with heavy weapons. If there is any room left, I will either put on a small amount of PD weapon or a smaller long range weapon.

My PD ships for either armada type get just engines and weapons. Up to around tech lev. 25 or so i use hard beams with autofire, continuous, improved and both miniaturizations(sp?). If I'm seeing lots of enemy missile fleets, I'll go with a 70/30 mix of PD mounts/Standard mounts to layer my PD.

My recon ships are outfitted with a mix of weapons. I equip heavy or spinal mount long range weapons, standard mount high damage weapons, and PD mount. I usually dedicate 30-40 percent of the weapon space available to PD. In carrier groups I'll go as high as 60percent because I use less PD ships and equip both a detection array and eccm.

In my carriers, I put in the fastest engines but lower the system speed to 200. These are really dedicateed ships. The only other thing I put in them are interceptors. I really like the gauss cannon fighters up to lev. 30. I think they do around 50 damage each and take up 25 spaces. Nothing else I have compares, so far. I'm sure plasma fighter will be better, but they're still 6 tech levles away. There are other fighter weapons that do half the damage and take up half the space, but I like to go with the higher damage in one shot to defeat armour deflection.

I should also mention that I build my recon and PD ships to match the armada they'll be put in. There isn't much point in having PD ships with a system speed of 3300 in an armada with carriers that only go 200. That extra space could be better used for more weapons. I also put the best and biggest armour and shields on every ship. I'd prefer to have them be more expensive and last longer than be a little cheaper and have to replace them every few turns.

I like to go with Carriers as the backbone of my fleet ass soon as possible(usually once I get Fighter fusion cannons... if I get them.) I find that fighter really rip the enemy apart, almost as fast as missiles, when used in high concentrations. If you put armour and shields on them, they also last a little longer.

As for combat strategy, when I'm attacking a planet I group select all my fleets and tell them to attack the planet. Then I immediatly select the LR armadas and tell them to move to one spot immediatly in front of my carrier fleets. I find that if I leave the attack command in place, they won't fire at the first volley of missiles. By telling them to move, then issuing NO orders at all until the first volley has been destroyed, almost no missiles ever hit my ships. In my current game, I'm at turn 350ish and have been at war since turn 100 with various empires. I think I can count on my fingers the amount of ships I've lost.

When I'm defending, I immediately issue an attack command to all my fleets, then order my LR fleets to move to the side of the planet where the enemy fleet is approaching from. They can absorb the incoming missiles and SR/LR fleets much better than my carrier groups. I should also mention that once I get cruisers I remove all planetary defences, as they become more of a nuisance than a help. And I do use missile boats, but only as early scouts/ system holders. Once the enemy get shields, I switch to carriers. I may get whooped in multiplayer, but I just play against the comp so I stick with what works, for me.

The only problem is this: The friggin AI always retreats! I can't stand it! Even if I'm outnumbered 3:1 in my own system! EVEN if I'm attacking their last system! By turn 350 it's starting to get old... really old. I'm almost ready to quit playing all over again!

[Strifeguard]

Originally posted by ThunderHammer
The only problem is this: The friggin AI always retreats! I can't stand it! Even if I'm outnumbered 3:1 in my own system! EVEN if I'm attacking their last system! By turn 350 it's starting to get old... really old. I'm almost ready to quit playing all over again!
You should try ceding combat more often.

Not when the outcome is questionable, mind you, but whenever you know the outcome. There's no reason to watch your fighters rush off towards a reatreating colony ship turn after turn. Cede combats where the outcome is unquestionable and you'll enjoy the game A LOT more.

Also, if you really feel that the AI retreating is a problem, try switching over to missiles, they can *usually* outrun a retreating TF (assuming you don't have to scout around to get a lock-on in the first place)

Personally, I've never been bothered by retreats too much. If I win the combat, I win the combat, end of story. Eventually, whichever AI insisted of repeatedly ceding me ground is dead anyway, and the one that actually stood its ground is still alive.

[Bolo Mark 33]

This fleet is designed to fight the AI.

Ship designs:

SR: My core SR ships are always the largest or second-largest hull available. Heaviest armor and shields available too. Then I fill up about 40% of the remaining space with PD missiles with my best warhead, racks of varying depth depending on how good my enemy's PD is (shallow racks allow more missiles per volley and thus can overwhelm PD). Then I fill in the rest with my longest range weapon in a spinal mount. The rest is filled in with light mount weapons for PD.

LR: I don't make these

IF: Largest hull size. I generally just go with the standard AI designs. Occassionally I will make a special design that uses only PD warheads stacked about 3 or 4 deep. An armada of Dreadnoughts designed in this way can destroy anything in a single volley (assuming you aren't too far behind your opponent in tech level). Engine settings vary according to my needs, as do shield sizes.

CV: Rarely built. Interceptors only.

PD: Second or third-largest hull size, though near the end of the game they are the same size as my core ships. Basically, fill'em up with as many light mount beam weapons as possible. Sometimes I throw in a couple of PD missile launchers if I really feel the need to overwhelm the enemy. Heaviest armor and shields.

Recon: Second or third-largest hull size, though near the end they are the same size as core ships. One ECCM unit (just in case it actually helps with anything), and then fill the rest with PD weapons or PD missiles. Heaviest armor and shields.


That's my favored ship design. As you can probably guess, they're all very expensive since they use the largest, latest, and best technologies. Sometimes I can't make enough of them to sustain the war effort, so I use some more basic ship designs. I find that the biggest way to cut down on their costs is to eliminate the PD missiles from the SR and PD ships. Then they're just really nicely equipped standard designs.



Strategy:

My ships are hard to mobilize in large numbers, but if you can achieve a certain "critical concentration" you will be unstoppable. The number of missiles that they can throw into space in a period of only a few seconds is staggering. Granted, PD missiles don't do nearly as much damage as other chassis types, but they are superior when you compare their size, range, and damage dealt to most other weapons. And think about that PD missile IF design I mentioned... If you cut the engines a bit on an SD, you can fit about 90 missile launchers that are 3 missiles deep(estimate). Put 16 ships in your TF and you can launch 4,320 missiles in about 10 seconds. That's 1,440 missiles per volley. I don't care how good your point defense is... you're not stopping that without at least 3 TFs engaging the missiles simultaneously. And I could always bring two or three of my special IF TFs...

Bascially, my starships are precious commodities in the early and mid-game. Losing a TF of them in combat can sometimes be devastating to my long range plans. But the flip side is that I rarely ever lose a whole TF of them in combat. In fact, I routinely lose no ships in combat against an enemy with equal numbers and technology.

TF composition is always equal numbes of core and PD, with whatever recon is necessary.

Edit: I should also mention that I design fleets that are 60% SR and 40% IF. Seems to work best.

[Reklar]

I guess I haven't really been in enough combats in long enough games to really develop a doctrine, but what I have used most recently with any success at all was a long range fleet. I used the largest (cruiser) and second largest (light cruiser) hull-size I had for the core LR ships and then second and third largest for the SR and PD ships in the escort. I plan to make a larger fleet and make it a little more balanced, but it will take me awhile with only two planets able to produce large ships at a decent rate (I'm only at turn 70 or so and it's been rough holding off the Ithkul alone). After seeing what a Super Space Fighter base does to invading fleets :eek: :eek: :eek: I've decided that I'm going to need a whole mess of IF and PD ships to handle them. :(

-Reklar

[Strifeguard]

Originally posted by Reklar
After seeing what a Super Space Fighter base does to invading fleets. I've decided that I'm going to need a whole mess of IF and PD ships to handle them.
And you haven't even seen what they look like with fighter-mounted Ion Cannons yet. ;)

The toughest planet I ever had to take down had 15 orbitals, 10 of which were loaded with nothing but Ion Cannon Fighters. It took me 3 seperate assaults to finally land troops on the planet, and each assault cost me *at least* 4 armadas. (usually I would sound the retreat once it became obvious I was being overrun)

[Reklar]

Why do I get the sudden sensation that my assault on Ithkul worlds is going to become next to impossible? :bulb: :eek: :haha:

-Reklar

[Patton1942]

Luckily ion fighters are a lvl. 25ish tech, IIRC. Knock 'em out before that, if you can. if not, build lots of ion interceptor carriers and use the AI's shoot and scoot against the planet, since you can always see a planet, and target one with bases.

arrive.
launch.
retreat.

repeat as needed.

[InfoStorm]

I find that I have no Standard Fleet Composition as such, I just try making Armada's as quickly as possible to spread the damage recieved around, and for easier to manage individual composition.

I find that (in early game) my armada of Frigates generally last longer than a flotilla of Light Cruisers.

My IF and CV armada's always consist of 10 core ships, 5 PDF, and 3 Scouts.

My IF ships are normally either as many 4-shot missile launchers of the largest/heaviest missile I can pack, OR as many 7 (or 9) shot PD Missiles I can fit, on the largest hull. I normally have about 2 Hvy-missile ships per 1 PD ship, and I always keep then in their own armada's. I find the PD ships are great as softening up a foe, for Fighters or Direct-fire ships.

My CV armada's early game, are all Interceptor's, but mid/late game, I go with 5 CV's with as many interceptors as possible (Ion mostly), and then 5 CV's of the heaviest hitting SCF's as possible. This gives tons of target's for the enemy Point defence to deal with, and get's the heavy hitters in there with a little lasting power (from the swarms of little fighters). Often, but not always, I will include a single 7-shot rack, of the lasted PD missile I have. This volley of missiles draws some of the initial PD fire, giving the fighters a chance to fire. Also gives the CV's something to do while waiting for the next flight of fighters.

My LR & SR aren't anything special, normally Spinals of the heaviest hitting Non-plasma , or Hvy-type mounts of whatever is the best gun I have. One thing I DO do, is to always include 1 of the latest PD Missile I have (in a 7-shot rack) on every SR or LR ship. Every beam hitting a missile is 1 less on the ships, and when supporting other IF ships in the fleet, their missiles have a better chance of getting through and doing more damage. My LR & SR fleets are always 15 core ships and 3 recons. the only weapon mods I ever use, are the miniturization mods, as I find having more barrels always helps against incoming missiles.

My Recon ships... normally 3-5 of the lastest ECCM, Max Armor & Shields, and the rest of the space as many Spinals of my longest range weapon, no matter what it is.

I also keep all my armada's built of the same size ships. Yes, Even Leviathan sized Recon ships.

When I build pile of armada's to invade, I normally have about 1/2 LR or SR (no preference) and 1/2 CV or IF, no real preference, but at least 1 of each.

[eclipser1]

My basic ship design tactics:
- IF, CV, LR, and SR versions of the biggest hull size available, as well as 2 and 4 sizes down from max.
- PD versions of the hull sizes 2 and 4 down from max
- RC versions of the smallest hull size that can can carry the best spinal mount of the longest range DF weapon

- LR gets a lot of the longest range weapon on the best spinal mount, a few of a shorter-range weapon, and leftover space get PD weapons
- SR gets a lot of the weapon with the best damage/space ratio, a few of a longer-range weapon, and leftover space gets PD weapons
- IF gets a lot of 2-shot missles, using the best warhead and biggest chassis, leftover space gets PD (missles and beam)/
- CV gets a lot of the interceptors with the best damage/space ratio, and leftover space gets PD weapons. On larger hull sizes, I may throw in a few SCF simply for their greater damage (more penetration).

- LR, SR, and PD get the best available armor and shields.
- IF, and CV get standard shields and a step thinner armor
- RC get small shields and even thinner armor

- All ships get best available warp drive
- LR, SR, PD, and RC get best available system speed
- Early game, IF and CV get 1000 system speed (best engines)
- Later, IF and CV get best available system speed

- No sensors/ECM/ECCM/Cloaking on any ships (I notice no difference one way or the other)

- Ships are named WW-XXX-YYY-ZZ, where WW is the mission, XXX is the hull size, YYY is the warp speed, and ZZ is the version number (In case I make a revision, but don't feel like changing the warp engines, making the new ship incompatable with everything else in my reserves).

It may take forever to redesign my fleet, but it allows any planet that isn't newly colonized to make a contribution. If a planet can't make a ship 4 sizes down from max, it can probably still make a recon ship. I also play with the fleet size mod (armada = 255 ships), so lots of little ships can make a big difference. My races also tend to focus on heavy research, trying to outtech the enemy even at the expense of production, so little ships may be all I can make quickly.

Also, my main goal is research, research, research, so I don't even design all of these ships until I come in contact with a somewhat surly civilization. I just use what amounts to a general, all-purpose ship (good LR and PD, designated as recon). This makes it even more critical that I can turn out a war fleet in a short time.

Early game tactics:
I'll generally try to make the largest fleets possible (255 limit, remember), unless I know I'll have to split up during the conquest, then I'll end up with 2 IF, 2 CV, 2 LR, and 2 SR fleets. PD ships are split pretty evenly between LR/SR and IF/CV fleet, but more recon ships end up in LR/SR than in IF/CV. In battle, LR/SR wait with the IF/CVs for the first salvo of enemy missles to arrive for better PD coverage, then charge the enemy. IF/CV try to stay out of harm's way.

Later game:
Once I have a clear tech advantage (and I've made at least 1 fleet revision), I can bump my IF and CV speed up to maximum available, since my fighters/missles are superior. PD and RC ships are split evenly among all fleet types. In battle, I try to get the IF/CV behind the LR/SR, then all fleets charge the enemy. This way, the PD on the IF/CV can lend a helping hand if needed.


I guess in summary, my tactic is just to swarm with smaller, but technically superior ships :P

[Shogo Yahagi]

...let's kill all the scouts.

The first thing I do when I start up a new campaign is obsolete the scout design and never build another real recon ship.

I scout with outpost ships. They're just about as cheap as a scout, and you can use them to stake a claim if you find something nifty. I call this scoutposting. See, I'm a geek.

"But how," you ask, "do you build the big fleets with no recon ships?" An excellent question. I lie to my fleet admirals. I build PD ships, but I call them recon ships. They will happily use these to fill out big fleets.

Every ship I design carries a long range spinal mount weapon for spotting purposes. All ships have the heaviest armor and shielding I have available. It's a heck of a lot cheaper to buy some armor and shields than to buy another ship.

My IF ships are designed to flood enemy point defense. I build a bunch of 5 or 6 shot PD launchers (armored and shielded if avaiable). Then I add in one (or more depending on size) of the biggest, nastiest single shot launchers I can build. It will fire with the PD missiles on the first shot. Because they have different reload rates, their shots will not sync up after that and the bigs will be easy targets.

That big, nasty missile hides amongst all the PD decoys in the first salvo. If it makes it through, it does a pile of damage to one target, while the surviving PD missiles spread their damage over all targets.

Once your enemies have LFGs, you can drop the armor and shielding. It's probably being ignored anyway, and it will reduce the cost of your IF ships. My IF ships are far and away the most expensive ships I make.

Once I get LFGs, I make an SR ship with a bunch of heavy LFGs. Their range sucks, but if they get close enough to use them, they can shred an enemy TF in a couple of seconds. Nothing's more fun than watching a stack of enemy TFs get blown into chum by one of these.

When mounting an assault, I generally use mostly IF and carriers, but I throw in an LR or SR TF to draw the enemy's attention. Because they tend to head straight in, they will be the first thing spotted instead of my oh so expensive IR ships. They will suck in the enemy fighters and missiles. As the enemy gets tougher, and I'm assaulting heavily defended worlds, I'll increase the proportion of LR/SR TFs. If you have at least two, they can support each other with PD fire, which can significantly increase their survivability.

I generally run with about 5 or 6 of my (PD)recon vessels per TF. If I have those SR LFG monsters, I usually use them as escorts for IF and CV TFs, because they act like extra PD if there aren't any enemies in range.

[Rover]

I've seen several postings, by several people, suggesting going to older system drives for IF and Carrier designs in order (I believe) to free up room for more weapons.

Is it unique to my installation, or did the data patch change engine sizes so that the older system drives were LARGER, so that going to an older drive will take up MORE space and force you to REMOVE weapons?

Also, is this a known bug (and no, I'm not under the illusion that anybody's going to fix it): last night I used auto-build to make a BC design, the space taken up was 1153 with the Uridium drive, I went to the Engines to select the Uridium drive, and the space went up to 1199. There was no way I could put in the amount of weapons and drives that auto-build created, it seems to have its own sizes for the system drives that are smaller than the ones I have available. Is there a workaround for this?

Rover

[Skymage]

I generally try to run my Armadas in 3s. 1 each of IF,CV, and LR(orSR).

With a full battleforce that would be:
3 CV Armadas
3 IF Armadas
3 LR/SR Armadas
1 Troop Transport Wave( Troop transports + escorts)

CV makeup:
8 CVs, 1 spinal weapon, and as many fighters as will fit.
6 PD armed with 1 spinal weapon,many PD guns, and a few 4 shot pd missiles (to hamper enemy pd)
4 recon ships made up exactly as the PD ships.

IF makeup:
12 IF ships with 1 spinal weapon, and as many 4 shot heavy missile launchers as will fit.
4 PD as above
2 recon as above

LR makeup
12 LR with as many spinal weapons as will fit plus a few PD mounts.
4 SR in the PD spot with a mix of spinals and light mounts
2 recon as above

TT makeup
2 Troop transports armed with light mount weapons and PD missiles.
6 PD as above.
6 recon as above.


The IFs/CVs/LRs/SRs are always the largest hull available. PDs and Recons are usually 2 sizes smaller. I Always redesign my ships as soon as I get a new hull size, obsoleting the previous versions immediately.


The LR(or SR) Armadas act as 'meat shields' as well as use their weapontry to shoot down fighters and missiles, this tends to keep the IF/CV/TT's relatively safe.

The true strength is in the CVs and IFs. Their fighters and missiles are more than enough to overwhelm enemy PD. Most of the enemy firepower is spent fending off missiles and fighters.


SkyMage

[Razeful]

Also, is this a known bug (and no, I'm not under the illusion that anybody's going to fix it): last night I used auto-build to make a BC design, the space taken up was 1153 with the Uridium drive, I went to the Engines to select the Uridium drive, and the space went up to 1199. There was no way I could put in the amount of weapons and drives that auto-build created, it seems to have its own sizes for the system drives that are smaller than the ones I have available. Is there a workaround for this?

That's not a bug ;)

When you use autobuild the AI decreases the max speed for IF to 80% I think. I don't have the default vaules in mind, just look into the taskforcerules.txt
When you re-add or change the engines of a design, the AI uses 100% speed by default. Less Speed means less accoupied space.
that's a reason why many people reduce the speed for their IF and CV ships to 1, to free up more space. I personally think of that as cheating, but that's my opinion.

viola, bug fixed :D

Older engines are larger then newer engines, don't know whether this was reveserd bevor the patch or not.

[Castellon]

To clear it up, it is not "older" engines people use to free more space it is the latest engine, but with the speed capped to a lower amount than the max.
On the screen where you select which engine you want there is a box that lists the max speed, just keep the latest engine selected but reduce that number.
It will free up space for you.

[Shogo Yahagi]

Having IF ships and carriers with a system speed of 1 is a good way to get them overrun and eaten alive. If you're as fast as their ships, you can stay ahead of them while your fighters refuel.

You can't hold a system if you have to bug out every time the enemy survives your first salvo.

On the flip side, if you've chewed the enemy up but are out of missiles, you can always chase them down and kill them with your PD weapons if you're fast enough. Try doing that with a system speed of 1.

Building a ship with a system speed of 1 may get you more weapons, but it severely limits your tactical option.

[Strifeguard]

Originally posted by Shogo Yahagi
Building a ship with a system speed of 1 may get you more weapons, but it severely limits your tactical option.
I definitely agree with this.

The New Orions in particular just *love* to play "hide the carrier" when assaulting a planet. They can launch fighters at a planet until the timer runs out, but if all your TFs are moving at speed 1, you'll never be able to locate, and subsequently kill, the New Orion armadas.

[ThunderHammer]

Here's a question for everyone: When you're building carriers, do you prefer to use multiple small, low damage fighters or a smaller amount of high damage fighters? I'm not talking about choosing SCF's or interceptors but weapon damage compared to size. For example, would you choose ion fighters that do 16 damage and take up 7.5 hull spaces each or gauss cannon fighters that do 48 damage but take up 26 hull spaces? I personally take the ion fighters since I can fit 3 times more of them in the same amount of space. I'd just like to see where everyone stands.

[Castellon]

Originally posted by ThunderHammer
Here's a question for everyone: When you're building carriers, do you prefer to use multiple small, low damage fighters or a smaller amount of high damage fighters? I'm not talking about choosing SCF's or interceptors but weapon damage compared to size. For example, would you choose ion fighters that do 16 damage and take up 7.5 hull spaces each or gauss cannon fighters that do 48 damage but take up 26 hull spaces? I personally take the ion fighters since I can fit 3 times more of them in the same amount of space. I'd just like to see where everyone stands.

Depends what defences your oponent is using!.
If they go heavy then you need the added punch of the higher per unit dammage, if not then the best space / dammage ratio

[Strifeguard]

I always try to go for the "many with small damage". Of course, Ion Fighters rule (particularly once you discover dual-Ion-pods), but for me, the real benefit of many fighters is that you'll overwhelm enemy PD, allowing the real heavy hitters, missiles, to get through.

[Shogo Yahagi]

That's also a huge benefit to not buying all 1 shot launchers.(Aside from the fact that I have often seen those conniving little weasels use colony ships to screen their combat forces... grrrr.)

If an enemy TF is trying to shoot down your fighters, it will often ignore incoming missiles. Because fighters are slower than missles your first salvo usually arrives without a fighter escort, but the later ones often hit distracted TFs, causing much more damage.