Magic Mountain or Cedar Point?

[Digicub]

Okay people, I live in the UK and want to come over to the US for a BIG coaster trip next season for 2005. Thing is East Coast or West Coast?

Which one of these two parks should I make my Major visit?

Come on people, hit me with it - Magic Mountain, LA or Cedar Point, Ohio?

:eek:

[leonardofury]

Judging by what people say here I think CP is going to be the one they recommend

[Digicub]

Yeah, that's the one that's favourite at the moment as well - but what about X? or Goliath? or Riddler? or Scream?
Gaaah!!! I can't choose! :cry:

....but Millennium Force & Top Thrill Dragster definitely look to haul major boo-tay don't they! :D

[leonardofury]

I'd like to go on Raptor. I love inverted coasters (especially nemesis)

[Digicub]

Yeah Raptor looks amazing but I love visuals on coasters, and as much as I love inverted coasters ( Montu, Nemesis, Duelling Dragons ) you can only really appreciate them on the front seats ( for visuals ) or back seats ( for g forces )....man, MF & TTD are getting my vote!

[Harpo]

I should qualify my opinion by stating that I've visited Cedar Point for 35 consecutive years, I worked at the park for 4 summers, and I've held stock in the company for 15 years. Meanwhile, I've only been to Magic Mountain 4 times, most recently in December 2003.

But, I'm also a coaster enthusiast who's been to 122 parks, and has been on 426 coasters. (I anticipate both of those numbers to increase this weekend.)

I spent opening weekend at Cedar Point, and I fully expect to return at other times this year. It helps that I'm only about 2.5 hours away from the park.

Each summer, I take a 2 week road trip to visit amusement parks. This summer, the trip will pass through the L.A. area. Because of things that displeased me on my last visit to Magic Mountain (and very poor response to my complaint), I was prepared to skip Magic Mountain completely on this trip. However, my schedule showed a bit of extra time while in the L.A. area, so, as an after-thought, I'll be spending a few hours at Magic Mountain in the late afternoon on June 22.

My point is this: I'm willing and eager to spend somewhere around 15 days a year at Cedar Point, even after 35 years of visiting that park. Meanwhile, scheduling a maximum of 6 hours at Magic Mountain for this year was done as an afterthought (as 1 of 4 parks I'll be visiting that day). So, take the information for what it's worth, considering that Cedar Point is my favorite park, but I'd much rather spend a day at The Point than at Magic Mountain.

I should add, of the 426 coasters, my 4 favorite steel coasters are all located at Cedar Point. My 2 favorite wood coasters are at Knott's Berry Farm and Hersheypark. I didn't post anything in the "biggest disappointment" thread, but, if I had, my choice would have been "X" at Magic Mountain, which, while a good coaster, it failed to live up to my expectations. It's not even my favorite coaster in that park.

Anyway, I'm sure many people would consider me biased, but I try to make an honest assessment. With the types of experiences I value, both for an overall park and for a coaster, I'd much rather go to Cedar Point.

I hope that opinion helps!

[Digicub]

Wow! thanks man, I really trust a seasoned coaster rider's opinions such as yours...you've definitely swung me towards visiting Cedar Point - tell me are MF & TTD as jaw-dropping as all of the online reviews say they are? The pictures of these two coasters just look magnificent!......and are there any other parks nearby worth going to while I'm in the state? Ive heard there's a Six Flags just over the border in Canada, is that worth a visit?

[Harpo]

The nearest Canadian Six Flags would be in Montreal, and that's about 10 hours away from Cedar Point.

Tied for my favorite coaster is: Raptor, Millennium Force, and Top Thrill Dragster, all for different reasons. I love the tight twisting action of Raptor, the raw and smooth speed of Millennium Force, and the awesome acceleration of Dragster. (Plus, they all have nice views!) Following those coasters on my all-time list is Magnum, which has excellent Lake Erie views, and "violent" air time, which I really enjoy.

For other parks in the area... about an hour away is Geauga Lake. It's got one coaster that I classify as excellent, being Dominator (formerly Batman Knight Flight), which is a floorless coaster. I also enjoy the Big Dipper, which was built in the 1920's. (I tend to like classic old coasters!)

A few hours south of Cedar Point is Paramount's Kings Island. The Beast is probably it's best known coaster. It's a good ride, although I liked it better 20 years ago before they started trimming the speed throughout the ride. The Racer is also a good coaster, and it's neat to ride on the "backwards" side, when it's open.

If you were to travel east from Cedar Point for a couple of hours, you could get to Kennywood Park near Pittsburg. That's a really neat little park, with some classic wood coasters. Thunderbolt and Jack Rabbit are lots of fun. Phantom's Revenge, like Magnum, has some violent air time, so I like that part about it, although Thunderbolt is my favorite coaster in that park.

If you wanted to get to a Six Flags park, Darien Lake is about 5.5 hours northeast of Cedar Point. Their Superman Ride Of Steel is very good -- I'd rank it pretty darn close to Cedar Point's Magnum.

The rides aren't too thrilling, but there are some interesting rides at Lakemont Park in Altoona, PA, which is about 5.5 hours east of Cedar Point. It's home to Leap The Dips, which, built in 1902, is the oldest operating coaster in the world. It's slow, but it's interesting, and I think it's kind of fun.

About 3 hours east of Cedar Point is a small park called Conneaut Lake Park. Overall, the park is forgettable. But, their old wood coaster, The Blue Streak, is a great ride. They've had a lot of financial issues, so make sure they're still open before going!

Depending on just how far you wanted to travel, other interesting stops could include Indiana Beach, Michigan's Adventure, or Paramount's Canada's Wonderland. (The drive to Canada's Wonderland would take you near both Geauga Lake and Darien Lake, plus a small park in Erie, Pennsylvania called Waldameer Park, which has an old wood coaster that's rather tame, but has a nice, wooded setting.) Or, you could drive about 7 hours to get to Hersheypark. That drive would take you past Geauga Lake and Kennywood.

Enjoy the trip!

[Digicub]

Great information Harpo, thank you SO much - that answers pretty much all my questions in one post, LOL :D

Man, I wanna be like YOU when I grow up! :haha:

[Harpo]

You mean you want to be stuck in a job that underutilizes your skills from two engineering degrees and 11.5 years experience, while being paid less than you're worth, and driving much farther than what you consider to be an acceptable commute, with absolutely no sense of job security? I'm sure it could be arranged! :D Are you positive that's what you want?

Ah well, as long as I earn enough to enjoy some roller coasters, it works out OK!

(No, I'm not as bitter about work as this post sounds, but it's been a difficult day at the office due to logistical issues which, from the sounds of it, could get quite a bit worse very soon. If every day were so annoying, chances are I wouldn't have been with the same employer for all these 11.5 years! The problem with logistical issues: they're out of my control, and that bugs me. I like problems where there's something I can do to solve them, but I hate problems where I have to sit around depending upon someone else to fix them, as is the case today. But, that's entirely off topic. In fact, this post should probably be ignored completely.)

Anyway, putting that sillyness aside, I'm glad to help. If there are any other questions I can answer, all you have to do is ask.

[Xzentrificenceo]

Well if this makes the choice harder I have heard that SFMM is starting to clear an area for the next coaster. Word is a B&M Flyer, to be located behind Deja Vu and Pysclone.

[Digicub]

Doh!

[leonardofury]

You can alway go to CP and ride Air when you get back;) .

[Digicub]

True man, just got back from Universal's Port Aventura, Spain and Dragon Khan ( B&M Steel Twister ) rocked BIG TIME!

[leonardofury]

I'll have to go at some point. I'm concentrating on british theme parks at the mo. I can't afford anywhere else.

[Harpo]

If it helps...

For the past month or so, I've been communicating via email with someone from London who contacted me (after seeing my CP website) asking for tips about Cedar Point. He just returned home after his CP visit. From what I gather, he spent 5 days at Cedar Point, and had such a great time that he's considering returning in the fall after the kids are back in school. Unfortunately, I had to work, so I couldn't go to the Point to meet him in person, but that's the way it goes sometimes!

[leonardofury]

Cedar Point is another park I really should go to at some point

[Hyde244]

Well, I guess by the title over <, you can guess what I would say. Heck, even by telling you I live in Sandusky, OH, you coudl tell what I'd say.

[erhswimming]

If you're coming from out of the country, go to Magic Mountain. Yes Cedar Point is better but beyond that and their water park what else is there to do? I mean, Sandusky isn't much, and Cleveland isn't too much either. If you go to Southern California, you have an array of choices. You can go to the beach, Knott's Berry Farm, Universal Hollywood, take some studio tours or home tours, go to the San Diego Zoo, there's just WAY more to do there. The only options I can think of if you go to Ohio is visit the Amish country, go to the Rock 'N' Roll Hall of Fame in Cleveland, or go to Put-In-Bay or some other doofy island/beach on Lake Erie. I guess you could go over to Kings' Island but that's four hours away from Cedar Point so you would practically have to stay the night in Cincinnati. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Ohio and would go back in a heartbeat, but it's mostly because I grew up there, it's not much of a tourist destination.

[leonardofury]

Isn't Geuga lake (spelling?) near Cedar Point?

[CedarPoint89]

yeah, its about an hour and a half away from CP, and its home to 10 of its own great coasters. Definately go to the point! its practically heaven for amusement park lovers. Geauga Lake has some great coasters also, the best of which are Dominator (floorless) and X-Flight (flying). And rust me theres plety to do in Cleveland, i live here, tons of malls, Museums, Science center, Rock Hall, Parks, Beaches, The cleveland Indians Browns Cavs and Force, terminal tower, boat rides, fishing, Severance hall, the flats, fine dining, little italy and much more Cleveland rules!
http://home.cwru.edu/~bhs2/images/cleveland.jpg

http://www.photohome.com/pictures/ohio-pictures/cleveland/downtown-cleveland-1a.jpg

[alpengeist04]

This is not as easy as you think. Let's break it down.

Batman vs. Raptor edge: Raptor
Goliath vs. Millennium Force or magnum XL Edge: MF or Magnum
Colossus vs. Mean streak edge: tie
Psyclone vs. Gemini edge: tie
Riddler's Revenge vs. Mantis edge: tie
Ninja vs. Iron dragon edge: Ninja

Misc. matchups

Scream and X vs. Wicked Twister and Top Thrill Dragster this is really hard because they are all different so I will just call it a draw.
Looking at this list its alot closer than you think, but when i started rating them individually this is when I found a winner.
Sfmm really only has (2) 5 star coasters(Batman and Scream) but alot of 4 star coasters 9.
Cp on the other hand has (4) 5 star coasters (Raptor, MF, Magnum, and TTD) and (5) 4 star coasters.
The winner is CEDAR POINT PARK!!! This is only my opinion. Hope it helps.:)

[holy_reality]

living in the middle of nowhere, i'll give a semi ubiased break down of the rides circa 2002 (when I went to CP) plus I'm bored, so... this gives me some entertainment to do.

MF - boring. Yes. Boring. If you're terrified of heights and a coaster newbie you'll love it. The first drop is quite amazing, no real "air" since you're stapled down.. but good nonetheless, the camelback is okay, the overbanked turns kind of are alright... it's more of just a speedy scenic ride than anything intense or out of control, I mean, it's hard to make a big ride that's surprising and forceful and intense... the transitions have to be very gradual.

I waited 3 hours for it too, so, don't go in the summer, ever.... EVER. it was a weekday. I'd give it a 7.

vs

Goliath - MF is not a twister, nor a "hypercoaster" but honestly, Goliath delivers, it has a weaker first drop, little air because they slow down the lfit at the top.... it has one nice floating hill.... the helix ending cannot be beaten.... 9/10 and I'm not kidding, Goliath (or Titan's) helix is world reknowned..... you just.... cannot explain the intensity present in this thing. If you're dehydrated enough you will probably black out, it's that powerful.....
-----------------------------

Mangum - I really liked this, shortish wait, some air.... kind of rough, I don't like Arrow/Morgan hypers too much, they get the airtime right but there's little grace and the transitions can be a bit nasty.... they aren't entirely smooth... I liked it more than MF I guess.
7.5-8/10

vs Goliath

I'm siding with Goliath here again, but Magnum clearly has the air.... no good strong positive gs or twister elements though.
-------------------------

Raptor - not bad at all, too long of a wait, an inverted cobra roll was nice, the helix was nice. - 7.5/10

vs

Batman: this is just classic designing at it's best, before B&M went totalyl soft. This ride may be very short but it's one of the most intense rides I've ever been on, at various parks I've been on various clones 30+ times and honestly, I preferred this to Raptor, for the intensity. 8.5/10

(Btw best inverted I've been on is firedragon at IOA, whoa.... the immelman blew me away and made me semi black out, it had batmans intensity + the unique layout and the dueling factor.)
-------------------

Mantis - painful..... okay...... I'm not a standup fan. 6.5/10

vs

Riddler - painful.... less intense, but more graceful, bigger.... I think more inversions... the downside, the inversions are repetitive, loop, dive loop, dive loop, slanted loop, 2 corks. It can be intense sometimes..... 7/10
--------------------------

Mean Streak - hmm...... no real air, and I rode in the back, but it was fairly fun. 7/10

vs

Collosus - yawn..... it's a good ride and the lines are usually decent, no airtime, it was totally butchered by SF like almost all their classic woodies are...... yay for trim breaks. 6/10

Psyclone - umm.... nice first drop, no air time, trim breaks galore... very painful. 5.5/10

Mean streak wins here.
---------------------------------

Top Thrill Dragster: have not been on it :/ basing what I know about Xcellerator: the launch is just beyond words...... intensity like..... 50000 hits of acid, or something. The rest... kinda yawn... except xcellerator is tiny, dragster is huge, so maybe the hill is better on this one.

vs

Superman : umm... okay, dragster would win, there's no need to compare.... the launch is much slower, and TONED DOWN since when I first went on it back in the day..... plus it's like, mega closed this year, and rumors are flying around saying it might be replaced with a new record breaker or it'll be open again soon, or something.

anyway, it's a one trick pony with a nice view and will scare the pants off you if you're afraid of heights and just the sheer presence this beast has over the park. 5/10
------------------------------------------------------

Corkscrew : didn't ride...

vs

Viper : Definitely Viper, it's no great ride, but I mean.... it's a bit more than the average corkscrew coaster.... and it's massively large. 6/10
-------------------------

Iron Dragon - wow I didn't ride this either, weird, maybe it was cloased.

vs

Ninja - hmm... boring aside from one intense helix. 4/10
----------------------

Wicked Twister - umm, there were some problems related to the impulse coasters when we went, this was never launched full speed I don't think, anyway, it was rather boring, I didn't feel any air, the launch was mediocre. 5/10

vs

Deja Vu - okay, this sucks.... it just sucks... wow a giant boomerang with vertical towers, how cutting edge........ this is almost always broken or breaking down, the lines are horrible, it's just a one trick pony, if you've never been on a boomerang before it might please you, the drops are indeed nice and it's very scary being pulled up vetically backwards. - 4/10
--------------------------



Now up to this point, if I haven't mentioned a CP ride it's because I haven't been on it..... however I do have to say, Gemini is an amazing ride with amazing air... and short lines... that's a keeper.


MM exlusive:

Scream - okay, yawn.... Superman: Krypton Coaster is the best floorless I've been on, this one is kind of rough (or at least was around opening) and well, somewhat intense, good capacity and decent lines... plus the location is so hard to find that it probably cuts down on the lines too...... it's okay...... nothing much really... I can't decide if I like it better than Riddler or not. 6/10

X: 0/10 0/10 0/10 this POS is CLOSED CLOSED CLOSED CLOSED... do not go to MM hoping for it to be open. It's had a horrible track record and maybe I'm just jinxed, 3 summers I have spent cursing the damned thing hoping for it to fall over..... 2 days last year, CLOSED CLOSED CLOSED CLOSED, not in the damn winter, in the middle of a damn busy summer season.... come on guys.... tear it down or have it open 24/7... that's what they get for rushing Arrow. If it's open and you don't wait 6 hours (the waits have been that long) I'm sure it's amazing.

Revolution: no need for the shoulder harnesses, largely boring and trim braked, nice loop. 4/10




Conclusion, both parks favor quantity over quality and breaking records over making good rides, MM is the winner IMO... it comes down to who you are as a rider.

If you are a newbie you will have a great time either place, but will be more likely to be wowed by CPs "bigger" rides (MF, Raptor, TTD) than MM's... slight less big rides (Goliath, Batman, Superman).... if you value intenseity and G forces, or hate airtime, MM is your place, as MM has almost no airtime minus Goliaths camelback and Supermans weightlessness (seriously, those bastards ruined Collossus... you won't get much air at this park)

So.... honestly, the West Coast has more to offer, Disneyland is okay for a first timer or for a little kid, it's nothing ultra special aside from the nostaigia it gives me nowadays......

You have Knotts, which has the absolute best roller coaster I've ever been on, period, no exceptions, Ghostrider. That ride will absolutely blow you away..... providing you ride in the very absolute back row (i don't care if you have to wait 3.5 hours, do it, don't even go one row up from the back, I've tired it and it isn't the same) and you get away with leaving your lapbar pretty loose.

You have DCA which.. I haven't been to... it might be alright, I love florida's tower of terror.


Ohio has some pretty good looking parks too, sadly we could only do CP.....

The best coasters are never going to be found at major corporate chains though, I mean.... Ghostrider.... just...... words can't do it justice. I only wish something like that was nestled in a nice local park with friendly staff who don't slam your lapbar down into your crotch and make you wish you were dead while you are waiting in neverending lines...... but yeah.....

CP vs MM.... as far as rides go I prefer MMs, CP has a pretty location and such.... both have a ton of rides, but all of them have things that are clearly wrong with them... like "if Goliath just had a bit more air" or "why in the world did they waste money on Deja Vu, they could have used it to make X longer and more functional" etc......

I hope this has been helpful rather than confusing.

[Digicub]

Oh man - I'm all confused again now !!!!!

BTW I agree with you on the immelman on Fire at IOA - WOW! Whaddya think to Hulk? or Kraken - Montu - Kumba?

If you ever get the chance you should also try Nemesis at Alton Towers over here in the UK - it was the 2nd inverted that B&M built after the original batman, and as you say they were building very short but powerful invert's back then - Nemesis is still one of my fav coasters - it starts slow and gets faster and faster - the final barrel roll / corkscrew is enough to make you black out!

Dragon Khan rocked big time at Spain Universal this season for me - but I need to get to the USA for major coaster action next year!

Ghostrider sounds phenomenal ;-) it's a real looker as well isn't it!

http://www.planet-group.co.uk/ghostrider.jpg

Have you heard the hype about Thunderhead at Dollywood?

Thanks Holy reality that was a great post - very helpful - *pat on back* :D

Maybe I should do Cedar Point next year in 2005 and then SFMM in 2006!!!

[leonardofury]

Yeah Nemisis is still the best ride at AT, followed by Air. My third favourite is eithier the Corkscrew or the Spinball Whizzer for the fun factor.

[Digicub]

Leonardofury, you been to Thorpe Park yet and rode Nemesis Inferno or Colossus? I'm supposed to be going next month for my birthday!!!! Yahoo!!!!

[leonardofury]

Unfortunately no, its a bit to far for a day trip for me. Hopefully I'll get to Drayton Manor this summer.

[Digicub]

Is it any good there? They have a short stand-up called Shockwave don't they?

[Harpo]

Well, I just got back from my west coast coaster trip. The best surprise was a little park in Idaho called Silverwood. I also enjoyed Santa Cruz Beach Boardwalk in California, and Lagoon in Salt Lake City, Utah was quite enjoyable. Biggest disappointments were at Wild Waves and Enchanted Village near Seattle, WA, Marine World near San Francisco, CA, and Magic Mountain, where even my girlfriend was getting frustrated with the park.

For Magic Mountain, at least two coasters were closed (Superman and Flashback). I didn't see Ninja run, but I didn't go up to the entry platform to find out if it was running. Despite fairly small crowds, there was a greater than 2 hour wait for X because they were running only one train. I took several time measurements, and found it was taking over 6 minutes to send a train, hence they were sending through fewer than 250 people per hour, thus the long wait.

Total, I went to 30 parks, 4 of which were Six Flags parks. There were more rides closed at any ONE of the Six Flags parks than at all the other 26 parks combined. Personally, I find that to be highly frustrating. Three of the parks were also quite dirty. Elitch Gardens in Denver was the exception. If all the Six Flags parks were running like that one day at Elitch, I'd have been reasonably satisfied. Although they had a couple of rides closed, all the coasters were running, plus the park was mostly clean, and the employees were reasonably friendly. What I don't know is if I just managed to catch them on a good day, or if Elitch Gardens is typically like that. Talking to someone at Lakeside Amusement Park (also in Denver), it's my understanding that the old ownership still has some control over Elitch's, which might be a factor.

(I also managed to get a great photo at Zonga at Marine World -- I caught an operator doing text messaging on her cell phone, paying no attention to the ride, while holding down the ride's dispatch button.)

[leonardofury]

@Digicub I'll tell you about Drayton Manor when I've been, though I've had good reports about it. And yes they have Shockwave.

@Harpo Glad you enjoyed your trip

[Digicub]

Hey Harpo - what did you think to X then - did it live up to the hype?

[Harpo]

After waiting about 1 hour for X, and seeing that the wait was going to be at least 1 more hour, with the platform looking like Grand Central Station at rush hour, my girlfriend told me she'd rather do something else, so we bailed out of the line without riding X. However, I have been on it twice before. In my opinion, it's worth waiting about 30 to 45 minutes to ride. There are 4 coasters at Magic Mountain (and 5 at Cedar Point -- maybe 6, depending on my mood that day) that I like better than X. Heck, even at little Knott's Berry Farm, there are 2 coasters I like better than X. So, in my opinion, X failed to live up to the hype. I was very disappointed in that coaster, but, for a wait under 45 minutes, I'd be glad to ride it again. The only reason I was willing to wait on this trip was because my girlfriend had not been on it, and thought it looked interesting, but even she lost interest after seeing the chaos on the loading platform, only 1 train running, and exceptionally slow loading and unloading of that one train. Instead, I'd recommend riding Viper, Scream, Goliath and Riddler, and maybe Batman, rather than waiting so long for X. (However, we didn't get on Riddler either, again due to only one train running causing an unreasonably long wait. Odd -- when I complained to Six Flags about that sort of thing in December, I was told that they were refurbishing the trains for the summer. Now that it's summer and the trains still aren't running, I wonder what the excuse is now.)

Fortunately, I scheduled Universal first for the day when I visited Magic Mountain. We extended our stay a bit at Universal that day, as I wasn't too concerned about if we had time for Magic Mountain. As it turns out, we did all we wanted to at Universal by about 3 (we just visited Universal Orlando in February, so we skipped things that were essentially the same as in Orlando), and got over to Magic Mountain for about 5 hours before heading to Scandia Amusement Park for about 90 minutes.

[holy_reality]

Originally posted by Digicub
Oh man - I'm all confused again now !!!!!

BTW I agree with you on the immelman on Fire at IOA - WOW! Whaddya think to Hulk? or Kraken - Montu - Kumba?

It was a band trip to Disney World (yawn) I managed to talk our conductor into IOA as well.. so no BGT... :/

Hulk, well, okay, nothing can top that launch into the zero G roll.... wow... pure euphoria, the rest of the ride really really really sucked to me, it was just typical B&M nonsense + headbanging... I'm highly criticial of their sitdowns I guess, they just don't "have it" for me....... but the launch makes the ride worth it.... I abused the heck out of the single rider lines and got say 3-4-5 rides on it while most people could barely get 1... fools.... dont' go with groups, screw that, split up your party and go in the single rider line.... so what if you don't sit together, often times they are sympathetic and at least put two people per party in 2 empty seats together.

anyway......


If you ever get the chance you should also try Nemesis at Alton Towers over here in the UK - it was the 2nd inverted that B&M built after the original batman, and as you say they were building very short but powerful invert's back then - Nemesis is still one of my fav coasters - it starts slow and gets faster and faster - the final barrel roll / corkscrew is enough to make you black out!

I will probably never leave America... my family can't really afford it and they are flag waving partiotic hicks... my grandparents travel all the time but ..... I don't know, they've only offered to take me once, and it was to England, yeah.. but.... I was younger back then... If I were to go to Europe I'd want to do it right and go to the Netherlands and Germany.... but I'd like to do a theme park tour too...

Dragon Khan rocked big time at Spain Universal this season for me - but I need to get to the USA for major coaster action next year!

I've never heard of Dragon Khan....

Ghostrider sounds phenomenal ;-) it's a real looker as well isn't it!

Oh yeah, but it sucks anywhere but the very last row, honestly, it does.... it sucks being stapled too, you know there should be air, but there isn't, and it makes you want to cry. You have to luck out and trick them into not being able to press your lapbar down. Knott's are real jerks about stapling you since the perilous plunge death....

Have you heard the hype about Thunderhead at Dollywood?

You mean Timerbline Twister? Or.. whatever the new one is? Yeah, it looks phenomenal, it makes me sad to live in Oklahoma where all our parks suck and never build anything.

Thanks Holy reality that was a great post - very helpful - *pat on back* :D
No problem!


Maybe I should do Cedar Point next year in 2005 and then SFMM in 2006!!! [/B]

Well I might do MM in 2005 and CP in 06 because CP, last I heard, isn't getting a new ride next year, or probably aren't..... (maybe i'm wrong) whereas it's likely MM will get something new next year... probably a flier though they NEED a good woodie... knowing them it'd be a damn hyper woodie with an ultra short layout though.

[Hyde244]

Well, ^'s speculation on new rides for MM and CP is pretty close to Screamscape's, were they believe MM will get a Flier, and then CP will follow up with a flier in 06, taht way they would be definate on its success and layout.

[AssMonkey69]

In my opinion, magic mountain doesnt come close to Cedar Point, all six flags park have
1.Idiot Management
2.Stupid themes
3.Alot of bumpy coasters (Viper)

[holy_reality]

Originally posted by Hyde244
Well, ^'s speculation on new rides for MM and CP is pretty close to Screamscape's, were they believe MM will get a Flier, and then CP will follow up with a flier in 06, taht way they would be definate on its success and layout.

yeah that's where i get my info from.

and CP vs MM coaster wars are just stupid, does anyone in LA even know CP exists? I highly doubt it.....

not unless they've seen a coaster special with that guys weird voice who over emphasizes ride names.......

[Harpo]

I know the folks at Tragic Mountain are VERY aware that CP exists. I wore a CP t-shirt when I was there a couple of weeks ago, and it was mentioned by their staff as I was entering the park.

CP also owns Knott's Berry Farm in that area, so a good image of CP could also help with the Knott's attendance. (And good operations at Knott's could potentially help CP's attendance.)

[holy_reality]

well I meant the LA locals, it's not like they're gonna run off to Sandusky and forget about MM.

[cedarpointfreak]

Cedar Point NO BRAINER!:)

[Your_Name_Here]

Since I'm anti-Cedar Point, I'm gonna go ahead and say Magic Mountain(even though I've never been there).


I say save your 50$ for BuschGardens.

[KingdaKa1]

I say CP. Six Flags just really can't run their parks as well as Cedar Fair. Plus Cedar Point is just an overall better park.

[Harpo]

Easily CP. But, then, I also pick Knott's over Magic Mountain -- last time I was in L.A., I visited Knott's and Disney, with no intention whatsoever of visiting Tragic, er, uh, Magic Mountain. On a previous visit to MM, I saw some horrible things -- I'm still surprised one person wasn't seriously injured or killed. I reported it to the park, then the corporate headquarters. Still feeling it was ignored, I sent the concerns to California's OSHA board. A couple of months later, an employee died at that park doing exactly the types of things I was witnessing and was trying to bring to their attention. I have very little tolerance for failing to listen when someone is mentioning potentially life-threatening issues.

[-MoNtU]

Originally posted by Harpo
Easily CP. But, then, I also pick Knott's over Magic Mountain -- last time I was in L.A., I visited Knott's and Disney, with no intention whatsoever of visiting Tragic, er, uh, Magic Mountain. On a previous visit to MM, I saw some horrible things -- I'm still surprised one person wasn't seriously injured or killed. I reported it to the park, then the corporate headquarters. Still feeling it was ignored, I sent the concerns to California's OSHA board. A couple of months later, an employee died at that park doing exactly the types of things I was witnessing and was trying to bring to their attention. I have very little tolerance for failing to listen when someone is mentioning potentially life-threatening issues.

Do you mind giving examples?

[Harpo]

The most dangerous thing I saw: Two teens were fooling around on the ride platform for the park's mine ride coaster, after exiting the ride. The ride op was sitting right there, semi-ignoring them. He put up his hands, because he was afraid they'd fall on him, but he said absolutely nothing to them. The girl then fell backwards, and barely caught herself on the last seat of the train. If she hadn't caught herself, she would have fallen on the track. At best, she would have suffered a serious injury. That type of fall, however, could easily have been fatal if her head were to hit the rails or concrete platform. The operator could and should have said something to them, rather than merely protecting himself.

There were a great number of lack-of-attentiveness issues that I saw, but they're harder to describe. An example would be a case where a kid couldn't get his lap bar to come up, and the operator standing right there didn't notice because he was too busy studying his feet. I wound up helping the kid, instead.

Amusement rides are big machines that are potentially very dangerous if they aren't treated with proper respect. The ride operators MUST be attentive in order to prevent or minimize accidents.

[SnooSnoo]

Cedar Point


You guys talking about long waiting times DON'T know how to ride the coasters at CP. I went to CP in the middle of July and rode every coaster, and here was my average wait time:


TTD - 2: 35 minutes
MF - 2: 1 1/2 hours
Raptor - 2: 25 minutes
Mantis - 1: 35 minutes
Magnum - 4: 6 minutes
Mean Streak - 1: 4 minutes
Gemini - 2: 20 minutes
Blue Streak - 4: 10 minutes
Wicked Twister - 1: 20 minutes
Wildcat - 1: 10 minutes
Iron Dragon - 1: 5 minutes


I was there from beginning to close and rode it all (good ones mind you) Stratagy gentlemen, its all about stratagy!!



BTW, Cedar Point was recently voted best park on the Planet.... for the 8th year in a row, SFMM can't say that.

[Your_Name_Here]

Originally posted by SnooSnoo

BTW, Cedar Point was recently voted best park on the Planet.... for the 8th year in a row, SFMM can't say that.

Fee Fi Fo Fum, I smell a fix.

[Harpo]

Originally posted by Your_Name_Here
Fee Fi Fo Fum, I smell a fix.

I suspect the Golden Tickets award people at Amusement Today Magazine would be offended by that statement. Then again, I can't speak for them -- maybe it wouldn't offend them at all.

Their data shows that Cedar Point was selected as Best Park by 37% of those surveyed. #2 was Islands of Adventure, selected by 14% of those surveyed. Blackpool Pleasure Beach had 9%, and Europa Park and Knobels were tied at 7%.

[Your_Name_Here]

Originally posted by Harpo
I suspect the Golden Tickets award people at Amusement Today Magazine would be offended by that statement. Then again, I can't speak for them -- maybe it wouldn't offend them at all.

Their data shows that Cedar Point was selected as Best Park by 37% of those surveyed. #2 was Islands of Adventure, selected by 14% of those surveyed. Blackpool Pleasure Beach had 9%, and Europa Park and Knobels were tied at 7%.

Why would they be offended? It's not like I can do anything about it, I'm just a weird guy. :bulb:


I just can't see how Cedar Point, Islands of Adventure, and those other two were above Disneyland, I mean, they must have had either a biased group, or they had fixed results.

[Harpo]

Well, personally, if I had a reputation for unbiased reporting (as Amusement Today supposedly does), and it was my job to make sure the data is collected accurately from a proper statistical sample, then someone questioned my integrity by stating that the results may be fixed, I'd feel offended and/or insulted. But, that's just me.

As for how Cedar Point and Islands of Adventure could beat out Disneyland, I think I understand how that can happen. Personally, I really like Disneyland (and Disney World). It's a great place for senior guests and families with small children, but teens, 20's, and 30's tend to be more inclined to visit thrill ride parks. There are exceptions, of course. I'm 38, and I think the Disney parks are wonderful, and always have. I credit EPCOT Center as being the catalyst that lead me to Electrical Engineering as a career. I still prefer Cedar Point, since I prefer thrill rides, but I really enjoy visiting Disney, as well. My sister, on the other hand, quickly grew bored with Disney, but always loved going to Cedar Point.

So, I think "returnability" is a key factor. I'll never get bored at Disney or Cedar Point, but there are people who will get bored with both places. Thrill ride parks tend to add a new thrill every year, whereas visual parks like Disney tend to be slower to add and change. If you were to look at Cedar Point 20 years ago and compare it to today, you'd barely recognize the place. If you made the same comparison at the Magic Kingdom or Disneyland, while some things have changed, I think most people would find the park to be very recognizable. Those changes for Cedar Point (and other thrill parks) help keep the thrill alive.