I think you guys need to take a look at this.....

[CedarPoint89]

Well, isnt long before someone builds this coaster which beats dragsters height by 30 ft.. Curretly it doesent say if anyones bought it but by looking at the design im sure someone is. But is doesent make senseit says 0 to 75mph in 2.2 sec but its going higher than dragster... and dragster barely makes it over at 120, wierd, weird wierd...
http://www.interactiverides.com/pages/Coasters.html
Heres a computer generated pic
http://www.interactiverides.com/images/Rides/Coaster2Big.jpg

[RCT2head]

where'd you see that? i think it might just be a hoax-thing, because of the aircraft-carrier in the foreground. whatever, it looks cool

[jonnyrocks]

it might go faster than 75mph, mabie its showing off its accelaration or something

[leonardofury]

Yeah, I think 0 to 75 is going to be like the 0 to 60 on a car. And I suspect that the Aircraft Carrier is part of the theming, note the planes?

[beck2003]

i think it's a dud. prototypes usually do not show themeing. i'll believe it when i see it.

[RCT2head]

if it's real, Busch might take it due to the fact that BGW is really close to an area drenched in military bases. but then again, i still think it's something someone who was bored made in a few days on a cad type program.

[leonardofury]

How much of that is based on hope;) ?

[RCT2head]

hey, you never know... BGW IS getting a new ride in '05, and maybe they might take that design and tone it down a bit to fit in a building that's going to only be about 75' tall... but pretty much all of it is based on hope.:D

[Squid2]

Heard a very good, solid rumor from a credible source inside BGW during my current vacation... will try and continue to track it down today.

Roughly, here it is....

BGW's ride for 2005 is a 3D motion simulator ride inside the new building they're building. That's the bad news.

The good news is that they're building a new COUNTRY for 2006, where Drachen Fire used to be. They're anchoring it with a new coaster, possibly a wooden one, out of the old Drachen Fire station, and they're building a train station in the new country so that there's more than one way in or out. Not sure on what country it will be as of yet. There might also be a foot bridge connection with Italy, but it's not very likely.

Squid2

[RCT2head]

OMG OMG OMG.... WOOOOOOHOOOOOO.... who told you? I know a tech for irish thunder, and he told me only that there was going to be a new ride in '05. what country did they say it's going to be? Spain? I can't believe that a new coaster is going there, because the last time that one did, it gave whiplash due to sinking supports. But, though then again, you're right about the station platform being there, so they still might build something, and a woody like Gwazi would be awesome.

[goliath]

That looks awesome!!! What park will it be in?

[RCT2head]

the ride above is a model, and i believe someone said something about Cedar Point adopting it, but then again, it might be bogus. the park i was talking about was Busch Gardens Williamsburg, in case you were talking about that, which i don't think you were.

[alpengeist04]

Could you imagine the price tag on this one. Look how much TTD cost. This ride would be at least 10 million more. If anyone would attempt this ride I think it would be either cedar point or an amusement park in Japan. I think BGW would look at a cheaper coaster either a wooden or floorless. How sad is it when 20 million is cheap!!!

[RCT2head]

well, i dunno anything about prices and stuff, but BGW can afford to buy it, because Busch Beer can afford it. but I dunno...:)

[alpengeist04]

Your right Busch can afford the price tag on a coaster like that. But coasters are not the only draw to BGW and having the tallest coaster in the world isn't there top priority. It's only my opinion, not a fact.:)

[RCT2head]

true, but wasn't Apollo's Chariot once a record holder until something beat it? i dunno, but if I was the 1 in chargew of new rides, i'd put in a world record woody, or a Gwazi for BGW, as the 2 parks heavily coordinate design to each of their rides, and every ride, besides 1 of the kiddy rides, has coordinating paint colors.

[alpengeist04]

What was Apollo's Chariot a record holder of? I would agree a record breaking woodie sounds good or a record floorless.

[RCT2head]

I believe it had 'World's Tallest Steel Coaster' for about a month, before another park unveiled a sligthly taller ride. but I'd have to check the facts somewhere to be sure....:D

[alpengeist04]

Isn't magnum XL at cedar point taller and it opened in 1989??:)

[RCT2head]

if it's over 210, then I guess I was wrong.:D oh well, not a biggie.

[alpengeist04]

Actually your right, but wrong ride. I can't believe I didn't remember this when I was talking about record breakers. Alpengeist is the tallest inverted coaster in the world. How stupid am I.:)

[RCT2head]

Really, It stilll holds a record? That's surprising that nobody's beaten it yet, or were you talking about a record it once had?

[alpengeist04]

According to BGW 2004 guide its still the worlds tallest inverted coaster.

[alpengeist04]

wicked twister at CP is 215ft. tall
alpengeist at BGW is 190ft. tall
wicked twister is a impulse coaster, so I think its considered different. I'm not sure though.

[Squid2]

Alpengeist records: Longest, Tallest, Fastest, Most Inverted Inverted coaster.

Apollo's Chariot: Coaster with the longest amount of drops. Over 800ft of drops on the ride.

These are current, as far as I know.

Squid2

[Coaster'Coon]

Im not trying to complicate this even more, but I thought Talon at Dorney Park was the Longest Inverted Rollercoaster.... :confused:


Or maybe I'm just stupid....

[RCT2head]

Either way, 1-2 retained records is awesome, because usually it's not long before another park comes and beats it.

[alpengeist04]

According to rcdb Montu has more inversions 7 to Alpengeist's 6.
Also Montu and Katun are longer than Alpengeist, but neither compare to the sheer power of Alpengeist. Just standing on the bridge watching the train fly by gives me chills. Rct is right having two records ain't bad at all. Come to think about it I remember hearing about that to Squid.

[RCT2head]

Well, I'm a season's pass member there, and have been for 5 years... Alpengiest or Appollo's chariot don't scare me, and haven't since the first time i rode them.

[alpengeist04]

The chills are excitement not fear for Alpengeist. I think Apollo's Chariot is a little too tame.

[RCT2head]

That's exactly why i think they need a woody, especially a record woody with ultimate everything. but that's just me... alpengeist, i have a ? for you, invovling RCT2 scenario editing... PM me if you're interested.

[Squid2]

Well, I'd always been told it was the longest, tallest, etc. Rcdb is probably correct, so I bow to the superior database. :D

I found out this year I can fit in Alpengeist, but just barely, and that's the modified seats. So, right now, I'm very leary of riding it, especially since I've never ridden an inverted before. (Mainly due to the fact that I can't fit in them.)

Squid2

[alpengeist04]

Squid, alpengeist is a fun ride. I think you will really enjoy it. You must sit in the front because of the great view. If you get to the park when it first opens go right to alpengeist. You can get 2 or 3 rides in the first 30 minutes. What's cool is you get to walk right over a portion of the coaster.

[leonardofury]

Originally posted by Squid2
Well, I'd always been told it was the longest, tallest, etc. Rcdb is probably correct, so I bow to the superior database. :D

I found out this year I can fit in Alpengeist, but just barely, and that's the modified seats. So, right now, I'm very leary of riding it, especially since I've never ridden an inverted before. (Mainly due to the fact that I can't fit in them.)

Squid2

You've never ridden an inverted??! You're missing out.

[jonnyrocks]

the two nemesis' are great in the UK have you tried the front of nemmy at Thorpe? Me and my frend went on it 3 times at the front

[Squid2]

Hmmm... let's make this clear.

I Can't Fit On Most Inverted Coasters.

It's due to my shoulders. My chest is too broad in the shoulder area, so the over the shoulder harness can't lock or the seatbelt is too short. On Alpengeist, I can ONLY fit in the 4th or 5th row, and only in one chair apiece. And then, we have to push down hard on the restraint to make it fit. That's why I'm very leary of it... I don't want to be a ride death statistic.

Squid2

[leonardofury]

I don't blame you, then. Thats the kind of sensible behavior thats good to see.

[RCT2head]

Originally posted by alpengeist04
You must sit in the front because of the great view. If you get to the park when it first opens go right to alpengeist. You can get 2 or 3 rides in the first 30 minutes.
sorry for not being able to say stuff earlier...
1. Sit in the rear, because the ride has a better feel to it, more speed and G's, and less weakness...
2. Go to Apollo's Chariot first in the morning, especially on weekends, it might be the only short line of the day on that ride... you'd also want to do it at night along with the Big Bad Wolf because they don't have well lighted tracks, and are a whole lot funner w/o.

[alpengeist04]

I may have found out who the buyer of the new coaster design is. Six Flags Great Adventure has a new coaster that is going to be built next to rolling thunder for 2005. An anoynomous source has claimed the park's new coaster for 05' will break two records (tallest and fastest). You can find the news story at www.gadv.com
At this time its only a rumor, but its the best lead I've found on this topic.

[GntDprRdr04]

that is a load of crap. I doubt this ride will ever be built and if it is it wont be by six flags. Just dont get ur hopes up for this Gadv coaster being the worlds tallest and fastest.

[RCT2head]

we'll just find out... contruction for the new sim @ BGW has started, and they have at least the building frame up... a sign there says it's coming in '05, but i didn't actually see the sign... heard about it. it looks too small to look like a laser tag, but it could be a ride sim... anyone know for sure?

[Squid2]

Again, all of my info says it's a virtual reality rollercoaster. Not sure as to what type, whether it's a tv screen one or a helmet one, but that's what the staff was told.

As for 2006, well, hopefully they'll put in the new country. We'll see.

Squid2

[Harpo]

I'm not sure Six Flags could afford a major new addition. I'm currently taking an MBA class on business finance. This week, we looked at debt relating to operating income. One of the items calculated was the TIE ratio, which indicates how well the interest expense is covered by the operating income. The examples in class showed an industry averaging around 5 for the ratio, and showed another company (which it indicated was in bad shape) with a ratio around 3.3. Just for fun, I calculated Six Flags' ratio. It came out to 0.77, meaning that they aren't making enough money to cover their interest expenses.

Now, one weakness of the TIE ratio is that it doesn't take depreciation and amortization into account, which are "expenses" that don't actually come out of cash. They relate to earlier cash expenditures. Ignoring the depreciation and amortization, the Six Flags ratio still came out to a very low 1.5.

The bottom line is that Six Flags is really hurting financially due to their very large interest expenses. As a result, don't be surprised if capital expenditures are tight for a while until they get their debt under control.

(This analysis went a long ways towards explaining why they'd sell off their European operations and Geauga Lake at significant losses -- they really needed the money! It could be a sign of more "fire sales" in the not-too-distant future, as well.)

[leonardofury]

You obviously know what you're talking about in finacial matters Harpo because I only understood half of that. Now if you had added some buzzwords....

[RCT2head]

seriously....
well, i guess that means that SF is crap, because they've got less money than they need, and are probably going to sell more parks to cover it.

[Harpo]

I'm not very good with buzzwords. I can't get into leveraging global solutions through best shoring of resources.

Ouch. That buzzword effort made my head hurt. Please don't make me do something like that again!

There's a definite problem with selling off parks, however. First, there are a very limited number of buyers who are both able and interested in buying them. Cedar Fair would be able, but they like to limit their growth -- they generally won't buy more than one park every two or so years. That's how Cedar Fair manages to keep their debt under control. (Using the same measures, Cedar Fair's TIE Ratio came out to around 5.9, showing them to be in an excellent position to pay the interest on their debts.) Busch might be able to buy some parks, but I don't know that they'd be interested. Disney could afford it, but they probably wouldn't be interested, as the Six Flags parks are definitely of a different style than what Disney knows how to run. I'm not sure what kind of interest GE would have, now that they own Universal. They might be content with the Universal parks.

Another problem with selling off the parks is that it decreases the income. It helps cover short-term costs, but paying the long-term costs becomes more difficult with the reduced revenue.

I hope it doesn't happen, as I think it would be bad for the industry and bad for the roller coaster riding fans, but it really wouldn't surprise me if Six Flags declares bankruptcy within a few years. They'd probably do a Chapter 11 bankruptcy, where they'd be protected from creditors while they reorganize and try to become profitable, but it could still be quite a hit for the industry, which could easily result in parks being sold or closed. It'd be similar to what K-Mart has been going through, where they closed and sold many stores while reorganizing through Chapter 11.

[pnkfloyd12]

Harpo, I remember reading in a thread a long time ago that you worked for a major IT services company? You should be used to buzzwords after working for them for 11-12 years. :D

[Harpo]

I'm also an electrical engineer. One of my engineering classes was on filtering out unwanted noise. I took that class to heart -- I'm very good at filtering out the buzzwords! Unfortunately, in much of the corporate gobbledygook, once the buzzwords are removed, there's not anything left to the document. On the plus side, it means I don't actually have to DO anything based on that document! ;)

[RCT2head]

yeah...
hey, if some outsider bought those parks and maintained and improved on them, i think that the SF parks would go away to a new parent company, one that could run the parks and then some. if a lot of the people off a bunch of RC- related sites could, maybe everyone could raise enough money to buy and maintain the SF parks. but hey, i have no idea what type of business mumbo-jumbo there would need to be to do something like that.
but, if we did that, it's like RCT in real life!:)

[Harpo]

Actually, there was a similar fan-based effort to save Whalom Park in New Jersey. I'm not sure if there is still an effort progressing, but it's my understanding that the fan-investors were sent refunds due to difficulties in the negotiations. I don't know the details, however.

There is a great deal of detail involved in running a real amusement park. I've talked about quite a few of the things with friends I have in high positions at Cedar Point and Knott's Berry Farm, plus I worked at Cedar Point for 4 summers, and yet I feel I still have only learned a small fraction of what goes on at the parks. I firmly believe I could take on a small park with a reasonable customer base, and I could find ways to improve the park and make it grow, but I'm not sure I'd want to jump right into a major park, and certainly not a whole chain, without having lots of experienced people close at hand. Heck, just hearing about all the difficulties that Waldameer Park in Pennsylvania is going through in an effort to get a new coaster (Ravine Flyer II) is enough to cause a bit of concern about some of the back-room difficulties that pop up!

(I fully hope to find a way to start my own amusement park someday, or find a way to purchase a small existing park and help it grow, so I have made quite an effort to follow the industry and its challenges. Certainly, a group of dedicated individuals could succeed, but they have to be willing to accept the fact that it's not going to be all fun and games -- there's going to be LOTS of hard work involved if the venture is to be successful.)

[leonardofury]

Waht would be good is if Bolliand and Maillbard say bought a park. They could put the Prototypes into the theme park:). That might be the way to go actually Harpo. Buy an engineering company and then set up a park. You could then place new rides into a commercial enviroment (After correct certification of course).

[RCT2head]

well, i was actually thinking of buying out the management, so they can deal with the problems while you tell them what to do... but i'm not a business person, so i don't know if that'd work.:)

[leonardofury]

You'd probebly end up playing buzzword bingo in every meeting. I suspect the management might try keep you out off the loop as faras problems were concenced.

[Harpo]

Originally posted by leonardofury
That might be the way to go actually Harpo. Buy an engineering company and then set up a park. You could then place new rides into a commercial enviroment (After correct certification of course).

It's actually not far from some of my ideas. I've got some ride ideas that I think I might be able to develop and sell.

If a ride design company owned a park, however, I could see that as a potential conflict. Truthfully, would you want to buy rides from a company that's also a competitor of yours, thereby supporting the development of their park? If I were a park operator, I'm not sure I'd want to provide such a revenue stream to a competitor.

[leonardofury]

I suppose the trick would be not to become a competitor. If the park was in Britian most US companies shouldn't have a problem with that.

[alpengeist04]

It appears that SFGA is in the early early stages of putting in a new coaster for 2005. They have begun to clear away some trees and fenced off part of the area next to Rolling Thunder. At this time nobody knows for sure what kind of coaster is going in, except for ownership. But with each day its looking like it could be a launched coaster.
What if the new coaster is this pictured design.
1. Great Adventure is getting a new coaster in 05'
2. rumor has it its a world record- hgt.& sp.
3. the shape of this coaster is about the same shape as the land being marked off
What if the record hgt & sp has nothing to do with TTD, but has to do with Storm Runner. Storm Runner was the first hydraulic launch coaster with inversions. It goes 0 to 72 in 2 secs and is 150 ft tall. This pictured coaster saids 0 to 75 in 2 secs. and the height looks taller than 150 ft. So they could still hold 2 records without being as tall or as fast as TTD.

[AssMonkey69]

About that prototype, you said it was 0-75 in 2.2 sec, but compare it to Xcelerator, 0-82 in 2.3 sec. Your telling me that this *New* coaster excelertes slower than a coaster built in 2000. I think that this is a good find, but that it is a hoax.

[Hyde244]

Alright, to clarify everything about the prototype, this is not a hoax. Those of you who think it is a hoax are wrong. This is a real idea, from a real company. The companies name is Interactive Rides (Heres their Website (http://www.interactiverides.com/index.html) ). You can find this coaster underneath their rolelr coaster section, like in the previous link that was provided. Now, I, like you, know that it is physically impossible for a train to be able to make it up a 450 ft. hill at 75 mph, and I 2 think that this is a flop prototype. But I jsut wanted to say that this wasnt a hoax, and is an actual idea.

[Harpo]

The document indicates it CAN be built up to 450 feet. Their specifications, however, seem to point to a 200 foot tower for the 0 to 75 MPH version. It doesn't specifically say that, but it's giving it's volume characteristics (85 dB) for a 200 foot tower. That specification leads me to believe that the the 0 to 75 MPH was also for the 200 foot tower, and that's a reasonable expectation that it could peak 200 feet at that speed.

[alpengeist04]

Like I said earier the records being talked about with Great Adventure could have to do with Storm Runner not Xcelerator. Xcelerator doesn't have inversions, Storm Runner does. In this prototype there is an inversion, so it would be the tallest and fasted launched coaster with an inversion.