Park Suggestions

[RCT2head]

Hey
I want to get a general idea of what y'all want to see in a park... it could be anything, from scenery, policies, rides, you name it, as lately i've seen alot of complaints about (mostly SF and Disney), but no real total park suggestions... the suggestions you give may become inspiration in a new park. (wink wink) :D

[aoshi]

I'd like to see a park that has lots off cool dark rides!

[Harpo]

First priority -- attentiveness. If something looks like a potential problem, act on it, rather than waiting for an injury or fatality to occur. (Would have saved a life at Disneyland's Big Thunder -- they were sending the train around one last time because it was making funny noises. They intended to pull it off the track, but it didn't come back from that last run. A bit more rapid response to the problems they noticed, and a life would have been saved. Better to shut down for a false alarm than stay open and have a fatal accident.)

Next -- customer service/friendliness. The guests are the reason the park exists. They shouldn't be treated as a nuissance, but rather as the lifeblood of the operation. Sometimes, guests have to be told they can't do something, but, while firmness may be required, politeness should never be compromised.

Next -- park appearance. Nothing makes a park look more run down than peeling paint, lots of litter, general dirtyness, lots of burnt-out or malfunctioning light bulbs. If guests are to trust that the park is safe, it needs to have a well-maintained look to it.

Next -- efficiency. If guests are wasting a lot of time standing in line, they can't be doing other things, like buying food or playing games. And, they may not feel like they're getting good value for their money. If the line is really long due to a large crowd, there's a limit to what can be done about it. If the crew really hustles, and makes it obvious that they're doing everything humanly possible to get the ride running as quickly as possible, guests are more likely to be forgiving of the long wait. If the crew looks like they're taking their own sweet time, thereby making the wait longer, then the guests won't be as forgiving, and it'll have a negative impact on their opinion of the park. If I were running a park, I would set a rule that, if the wait is more than 15 minutes, add a train if one is available to add.

Holiday World in Indiana shows that it's possible to give a great guest experience without lots of world class rides (although they do have 2 very good wood coasters). Yes, great rides are important. But, if the guests are treated to a great experience, they'll return even if they might be able to find better rides elsewhere. Holiday World is proof. I've also talked to guests at Indiana Beach who were from Chicago and preferred driving down to Indiana Beach rather than going to Six Flags Great America, because they felt the guest experience was better at the smaller Indiana Beach, hence they had a better time there, even if the rides were better at Great America.

[RCT2head]

That certainly would do alot into industry standards today to have those rules followed

[Harpo]

The real key is that the majority of that can be done with minimal to no cost. The appearance item would have a potentially significant cost, although even that can be minimized by making sure every employee knows it's their responsibility to keep the whole park looking good -- everyone can pick up trash when they see it, and can take slow times to do some cleaning in their immediate area, or check and replace lighting that's within easy reach. The other items are mostly a matter of instilling the proper pride and work ethic into the employees. Added efficiency will have added electricity and wear-and-tear costs, but the benefit is that people get through the lines faster, so they have more opportunities to spend more money elsewhere in the park, thereby helping (or entirely) paying for the added efficiency costs while also providing a better guest experience, leading to more repeat guests. It's far easier to keep loyal guests than to try and win new guests or win back lost guests.

Some parks do generally follow these types of rules, and they tend to be very popular parks with excellent reputations.

[sirius_kid]

Originally posted by Harpo
First priority -- attentiveness. If something looks like a potential problem, act on it, rather than waiting for an injury or fatality to occur. (Would have saved a life at Disneyland's Big Thunder -- they were sending the train around one last time because it was making funny noises. They intended to pull it off the track, but it didn't come back from that last run. A bit more rapid response to the problems they noticed, and a life would have been saved. Better to shut down for a false alarm than stay open and have a fatal accident.)

Next -- customer service/friendliness. The guests are the reason the park exists. They shouldn't be treated as a nuissance, but rather as the lifeblood of the operation. Sometimes, guests have to be told they can't do something, but, while firmness may be required, politeness should never be compromised.

Next -- park appearance. Nothing makes a park look more run down than peeling paint, lots of litter, general dirtyness, lots of burnt-out or malfunctioning light bulbs. If guests are to trust that the park is safe, it needs to have a well-maintained look to it.

Next -- efficiency. If guests are wasting a lot of time standing in line, they can't be doing other things, like buying food or playing games. And, they may not feel like they're getting good value for their money. If the line is really long due to a large crowd, there's a limit to what can be done about it. If the crew really hustles, and makes it obvious that they're doing everything humanly possible to get the ride running as quickly as possible, guests are more likely to be forgiving of the long wait. If the crew looks like they're taking their own sweet time, thereby making the wait longer, then the guests won't be as forgiving, and it'll have a negative impact on their opinion of the park. If I were running a park, I would set a rule that, if the wait is more than 15 minutes, add a train if one is available to add.

Holiday World in Indiana shows that it's possible to give a great guest experience without lots of world class rides (although they do have 2 very good wood coasters). Yes, great rides are important. But, if the guests are treated to a great experience, they'll return even if they might be able to find better rides elsewhere. Holiday World is proof. I've also talked to guests at Indiana Beach who were from Chicago and preferred driving down to Indiana Beach rather than going to Six Flags Great America, because they felt the guest experience was better at the smaller Indiana Beach, hence they had a better time there, even if the rides were better at Great America.


WOW That so true bout the efficiency part. I work 4 a Theme park. (PKD) on dayz when its rainy or bad weather we take our sweet time. Cuz Its sad depressing weather so yea we take our time. But we move in a acceptable speed. When its HOT HOT HOT we move fast but we drinks lots of water. On saturdayz weekends or Holidayz. We move hella fast It really depends on the other employees. Like Sense I'm popular at my ride every one likes me. And they know I'm fun 2 hang out wit they move faster and that makes the day go by faster. Like we race 2 check the restraits. And guest 2 compliment us on that. But it seems like u know what u talking about. U should b a park manager:up:

[RCT2head]

yeah... which ride @ PKD, btw?
oh, and if things haven't changed much in
the last few years, the paths were dirty to the point of i
had to rinse my feet off at the campground...
that and it seemed like the last time anything in the park was washed was when it was built...
so that's an idea... keep the park clean

[Harpo]

Originally posted by sirius_kid
on dayz when its rainy or bad weather we take our sweet time. Cuz Its sad depressing weather so yea we take our time.

Just hoping to provide a helpful hint... On such poor weather days, the guests who are paying to enter the park may also be feeling a bit down. It may not be necessary to move as fast on such days due to smaller crowds, but a bright, cheerful attitude by the staff can make a world of difference for the guests. In spite of poor weather, they can leave feeling they had a wonderful time. I had such an experience on my first trip to Kennywood. The day was wet, with few people in the park, but the staff was generally very upbeat, and helped make for a super day. It gave me a strong desire to return to the park again in the future (and I have made more trips there). Having also worked at an amusement park (4 years at Cedar Point), I know how tough it can be to stay upbeat on wet, dreary days. But, I also know from doing so at Cedar Point just how much the guests can appreciate it -- I had people come back later in the year, and even in subsequent years, and tell me that they remembered my cheery personality bringing them a bright spot on a damp day. I wish I had a good enough memory to remember each of them when they came back to my location! Of course, I'd see tens of thousands of people each day, so the faces tended to run together, but, when they approached me and gave me such good comments, then I generally remembered them in the future. (I'll never forget the Eat A Wolfcookie Today people -- they were really nice folks with bright pink shirts with Eat A Wolfcookie Today written in bright green letters. I never did find out what a Wolfcookie was, however!)

[sirius_kid]

Originally posted by RCT2head
yeah... which ride @ PKD, btw?
oh, and if things haven't changed much in
the last few years, the paths were dirty to the point of i
had to rinse my feet off at the campground...
that and it seemed like the last time anything in the park was washed was when it was built...
so that's an idea... keep the park clean

My ride iz Volcano the Blast Coaster,
The park management improved greatly this year. Last year is gonna b even beter so u should check us out:D

[sirius_kid]

Originally posted by Harpo
Just hoping to provide a helpful hint... On such poor weather days, the guests who are paying to enter the park may also be feeling a bit down. It may not be necessary to move as fast on such days due to smaller crowds, but a bright, cheerful attitude by the staff can make a world of difference for the guests. In spite of poor weather, they can leave feeling they had a wonderful time. I had such an experience on my first trip to Kennywood. The day was wet, with few people in the park, but the staff was generally very upbeat, and helped make for a super day. It gave me a strong desire to return to the park again in the future (and I have made more trips there). Having also worked at an amusement park (4 years at Cedar Point), I know how tough it can be to stay upbeat on wet, dreary days. But, I also know from doing so at Cedar Point just how much the guests can appreciate it -- I had people come back later in the year, and even in subsequent years, and tell me that they remembered my cheery personality bringing them a bright spot on a damp day. I wish I had a good enough memory to remember each of them when they came back to my location! Of course, I'd see tens of thousands of people each day, so the faces tended to run together, but, when they approached me and gave me such good comments, then I generally remembered them in the future. (I'll never forget the Eat A Wolfcookie Today people -- they were really nice folks with bright pink shirts with Eat A Wolfcookie Today written in bright green letters. I never did find out what a Wolfcookie was, however!)


Well I see your point most of time we go down for incliment weather. And so the guest that want to stay in the line most of them leave so that leaves about like 23 guest sometimes 12 guest. We talk to them sometimes we do sometimes we dont. But if the manager is coming we be talking to them lol:confused: But I have to say I do my job and I do it well I even won Associate of the week:D. But for some reason I love stressfull days I love when the park is jammed pack, I love when are line is extremely long to the point we have to request a third train. I dont mind getting yelled at. I have alot of patience with people. Some employees would flick off cuz thats how they are but not me:). I do my job and I do it well I do remember I made this ohio Couple day enjoyable. It was because My ride"Volcano" was shut down. Actually it was shut down from 10:00 pm from that last night matience never fixed it. I guess they were gonna fix it in the morning. But anywayz it was shut down from 10:00 last nite from that day which was like 3:00 Pm that afternoon so thats like 17 hours. But anywayz I wanted to cut the line I wanted to be at the entrance and 2 answer every one questions. I got asked the same question 573759305 million times. But I'm patient so anywayz it was this one couple that waited in line it was a seat by the line so they sat down we were just talking all day. And I was still answering people questions that came up to me but. We were just talking all day about anything lol. So the A-Phone rung. Thats a ride phone anywayz it was one of the workers they wanted 2 say wassup 2 me I guess they were bored lol. And they say Maitenence about 2 test it again. so be ready we might go back up if the train make it up the mountain. So I said ok then I hung up the phone. They were like what they say. I said the ride isnt up yet But I do have good news"I saved 15% or more on my car insurance by switching to Geico" They were laughing there butts off I mean they were choking everything they were laughing atleast 3 mins. Then they was like thats good that was funny lol. So then the train made it over the mountain it was a saturday and it was jamm packed. Once every one saw that one train make it over the mountain I seen like 57487593 people started 2 wait in line. People were like iz it open yet? Is it bout 2 open? "I was like we dont know" and then The A-phone rung people were like yaaaaaaaaaay. lol I was like damn in my mind but anywayz my supervisor told me to come inside some one else gonna take my postion at entrance. she wanted me to take board control. so then when we had to do our opening procedures that took 13 mins then matience finally gave the ride over 2 us. Then we tested some more trains on our on. after that they opened the lined. Then I saw the Ohio couple they was like that was funny dude then they enjoyed there day after they got on the train. The I got on the microphone and said "Good Bye" when the train was about to launch.

[RCT2head]

ok....
yeah, what he said...:haha:
that is actually a good point...
ride ops be patient w/a sense of humor

[Duane]

I want all of the employees to be honest with the patrons.

Example: During one of my trips to CP in 2003, an employee was at the entrance of TTD with A megaphone repeating, "The wait for Top Thrill Dragster is 4 hours, please use the restroom facilities, and get plenty of food and beverages before entering the line. Please store all loose articles in the lockers to my left. Thank You." This was happening 30 minutes before the park closed. It took us less than one hour to board A train in the lead station. There was also A rollback during our wait, 15 minutes of downtime to reset. I had to walk back to Breakers Express because of that lie. Two of my friends didn't feel like waiting that long, so we told them that they could take the car back to hotel and we would walk back. They would have waited for two hours. They were more upset about being cheated out of A trip on TTD than we were about the long walk. :cry:

[Harpo]

Based on Dragster's operation in 2003, it probably wasn't a lie, but an educated guess. The ride went down quite a bit in 2003, with rather frequent delays. A line that took 1 hour in 2004 often did take 4 hours in 2003 due to the technical problems.

Would you have preferred that the person tell you it was a 90 minute wait, then have issues that were common in 2003 resulting in the wait being 4 hours? Most people (although certainly not all) would prefer the relatively pleasant surprise of the wait being shorter than stated rather than the relatively unpleasant surprise of it being longer than stated.

Walking to Breakers Express? Across the Causeway? Hmmm, that's dangerous, which is why there are signs indicating that walking on the Causeway is prohibited. It's common for employees needing a ride to wait at the crosswalk between the park and the Cedars Employee Hotel (by the Marina), and catch a ride from someone leaving the back parking lots (including the employee parking lot).

[jonnyrocks]

in my opinion, a park needs a load of rollercoasters, or is that just me??

[RCT2head]

both right.
i thought of how to make a system that would guess ride wait time, and be able to display on the moniters during the ride video

[Duane]

Originally posted by Harpo
Based on Dragster's operation in 2003, it probably wasn't a lie, but an educated guess. The ride went down quite a bit in 2003, with rather frequent delays. A line that took 1 hour in 2004 often did take 4 hours in 2003 due to the technical problems.

The announcer clearly stated that the wait was 4 hours, if your hypothesis is correct, the announcer should have said that A 4 hour wait was possible. If severe downtime factored into the equation, I expect the announcer would have stated it. There were so many disappointed people that were not willing to wait. It was A sad sight.

I was very aware of the technical problems. As A result, I almost didn't visit Cedar Point in 2003. In late June, I recieved an E-Mail from CP explaining that TTD was running smoothly. I planned A 2 1/2 day trip for A weekend in mid July. The downtime was significantly reduced in early july. The incident happend on Friday Night. Early in the evening on Saturday, the line was much longer than it was on late Friday. I don't recall being warned of A 4 hour wait on Saturday. It took 1:45 hours with little downtime. (one rollback) I do remember overhearing several employees talking about A huge party on Friday. That may have been A contributing factor.

Would you have preferred that the person tell you it was a 90 minute wait, then have issues that were common in 2003 resulting in the wait being 4 hours? Most people (although certainly not all) would prefer the relatively pleasant surprise of the wait being shorter than stated rather than the relatively unpleasant surprise of it being longer than stated.

Under normal circumstances, it would have been A pleasant surprise. A couple of my friends were on A tight budget, do to the short notice. That's how I ended up at Breakers Express.
I normally stay at Breakers.

Walking to Breakers Express? Across the Causeway? Hmmm, that's dangerous, which is why there are signs indicating that walking on the Causeway is prohibited.

It was scary. I expected to take that walk at 2:30 A.M. not 11:30 P.M. The traffic was fast and furious. We hugged the bank as much as possible. I wasn't aware of the signs until we were entering the causeway. That will be the last time I make that mistake. :noob:

[RCT2head]

well, as i have never been there, and don't know the situation, can y'all tell me what's this causeway, and why it's dangerous?

[Harpo]

The Cedar Point Causeway is a 4 lane road going from the mainland to the Cedar Point peninsula. It was built in the 1950's, a time when Cedar Point almost closed to be transformed into a housing development, so it really wasn't designed for the kind of traffic it gets today with over 3 million annual visitors to the park, mostly coming in a 3 month time span. (It was originally proposed in the late 1910's, as more people started arriving at the amusement park by car, although most people still arrived by boat or train. George Boeckling, who ran the park at the time, was a very forward-thinking person. He was responsible for Cedar Point's Hotel Breakers, and for building employee dormatories on the park's property in 1906 -- something which has proven to be critical to Cedar Point's growth.)

There's another road getting to Cedar Point, but it's just a 2 lane road, going along the length of the peninsula, past a lot of homes. Most people get on and off Cedar Point's peninsula via the Causeway.

When it opened, I believe the Causeway was just 2 lanes, but it was wide enough for 4. (I've got some really old pictures of it somewhere, but I don't recall where I put them.) It was expanded years ago to 4 lanes, taking up any kind of "safe" walking space that would have been found on the sides of the road. So, at some points, the cars are just inches from the railings separating the road from the Sandusky Bay (part of Lake Erie), leaving no room to walk, with much of the traffic exceeding the 35 MPH speed limit.

[Duane]

The incoming traffic was heavy. (Surprise!!!) I didn't expect that. I honestly considered swimming part of the distance. (Especially at the bridge around the mid-point.) We had to cross the guard rail several times. I might as well have went dancing on A highway. :confused:

[RCT2head]

thanks for the info...
i think you did dance on a highway from the sound of it :haha:

[tinaalsgirl5]

Silver Dollar City meets very well the four standards Harpo outlined in his/her initial post.

What I love about SDC is how they keep people entertained while waiting in line. Every ride has a story behind it, so at every point of your wait in line, there's some plaque or board with information and storylines to read.

Also, at several of their rides, they have set-ups with windows you can look through to see stuff. On Wildfire, you can get a glimpse of Dr. Horatio Harris' cluttered office. At the Great Shoot-out, you can look into the jailer's office and other such things.

I think every theme park should use SDC as a template for how to keep visitors happy and entertained as well as learn how to make their themes believable (I'm thinking of Worlds of Fun as I type this). And many theme parks' employees could learn a *lot* from the friendly, wonderful "Citizens" at the City.

Joy

[RCT2head]

hmmm, interesting
i really didn't know that storyboards displayed and stuff like what u said would actually be interesting... i was just figuring on seeing queque tvs

[tinaalsgirl5]

Yeah, it's pretty fun to stand in queues at SDC. For example, on American Plunge (their awesome log flume ride), you read all about various adventurers who took the "plunge" down Niagara Falls and other such places. They have drawings and all sorts of other fun stuff, too. They even give some little known facts at some points.

And then, of course, there's the awesome themeing of the rides themselves. Fire in the Hole is a train traveling through the burning mining town of Marmaros (at least, I think it's Marmaros--it could be another 1880's Ozark town; I can't quite remember); Wildfire is a coaster shooting you through the woods using Dr. Harris' green, bubbling "wildfire" power liquid (of which you can see a huge tank full in the middle of the queue line); and the Great Shoot-Out at the Flooded Mine is a flooded silver mine where you shoot at targets while watching animatronic prisoners attempt all sorts of hilarious escapes.

Yup, I love that park...

EDIT: You can find some great pictures that show you how wonderfully themed the queue line is for Wildfire:

http://www.mydesign.net/mydweb/docs/wildfire1.htm

If you have iPIX (or you choose to download it), you can even look at 360* views of the line area; in those pics, you'll see Dr. Harris' office, the Wildfire tank, and all the drawings and stuff on the walls.

http://www.mydesign.net/mydweb/docs/wildfire_ipix-main.htm

Joy

[Harpo]

Originally posted by tinaalsgirl5
Silver Dollar City meets very well the four standards Harpo outlined in his/her initial post.


"His" will work nicely, thanks! :D

Silver Dollar City is a very nice park with an excellent staff. Although I visited on a rainy day when the park was nearly devoid of people, the staff was still very pleasant, making it an enjoyable day. The lack of guests that day made it so I couldn't evaluate efficiency, but the staff generally looked attentive, and they were remarkably friendly. Plus, the park was clean.

I also visited Celebration City on the same day, and found the same conditions there -- not surprising, since the parks have the same owners.

Dollywood is another park with the same owners, and that one also did very well. Dollywood was busy when I visited there. While the staff was attentive and friendly, I did think the Dollywood staff could have been a bit more efficient, but they were better than a lot of parks, so I really didn't have a significant issue with their efficiency.

[:Go_Go_Go_RCT3:]

I'd like to see some UK parks get some more original and better themes for there areas.

[Hazard1367]

For me it will be darkrides, darkrides, and more darkrides.:p