COMPETITION: Compact Rollercoasters

[mrdarklight]

Hi folks, I've got an idea for a coaster competition. Maybe this has been done already, I don't know, but here are the rules:

Design the smallest roller coaster possible with the following criteria:

- Excitement rating higher than 7
- Intensity no greater than 7
- Nausea no greater than 6
- May not include the "impulse" or "reverse freefall" designs, as these are inherently compact and high in excitement.
- Must not be a "shuttle" coaster - in other words, must form a circular or closed track, where, at the beginning of the ride, the train leaves the station on one end, and at the end of the ride, enters it at the other.

Following this criteria, the coaster with the smallest footprint (squares long x squares wide) will win. Ride can be any height. In the event of a tie (two or more coasters have the same area), the coaster with the highest excitement wins. In the unlikely event of a tie in excitement, the coaster with the lowest nausea will win.

Clarification: All coaster parts will be measured for the footprint. This includes the entrance and exit, and any overhanging parts. We will use the coaster size reported in-game for the final number.

I've always thought compact coasters are a lot harder to design than ones that spread out all over. So give it a go!

[ElBlufer]

By any chance can their be two competitions? one for a coaster with "medium" intensity, and another with a "High" intensity?

Also, this should be in the exchange forum.

[mrdarklight]

Hmm. Maybe we can do that one second, but I'd like to keep it one coaster competition at a time.

[vortexian]

there IS a compact coaster thread in the exchange, but that isn't a real compitition.

[mrdarklight]

OK, I edited the rules a bit, to take out reverse free fall and impulse coasters.

[mrdarklight]

Here's another page about them.

http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=443503&highlight=excitement

I also edited the rules to allow higher intensity rides (up to 7).

[rizzla]

If everybody from the other thread will give it a go, there should be some tough competition - 10x10 will surely not be the minimum. I just toyed with a great idea for an unbeatable 6x5 but I'm pretty won't be able to keep the intensity under 7.

[mrdarklight]

10x10 might be about as small as you can get a coaster with 7 excitement. I've made a couple of rides in the last few days, trying to keep size small, and haven't gotten over 6.5 excitement yet. I'm sure I can make a coaster smaller than 10x10, I'm just not sure I can make it exciting. :)

[Freddie1]

You should make it so it must have a lift hill. Powered launch is kind of cheap...

[rizzla]

No way, SFNERules! Cause I have just completed my LIM and indeed it does include a powered launch. However, it was extremely difficult to get the intensity below 7 and I challenge anybody to get it done - and the 72 km/h launch speed of other coasters won't get you very far.

Anyway - to shock everybody attempting this challenge I have managed to meet the requirements (based on the idea I was talking about earlier) in 10x5 squares!!! I won't release it just yet (darklight, how should entries be handled? Do you want a mail?) cause I am still tweaking it - at the moment it is 7.15/6.98/5.39. Shame really, cause considering the small size I managed an even more impressive design (I did save it and will present it afterwards, too) but needed to take out some corkscrews to get the intensity down. In any case it is a beauty I think... :)

Another problem I just noticed - I placed the coaster in an empty sandbox and the excitement rating, even before a single person got on the ride, changed to 7.41!?!

[Thergothon]

I'll try this a bit later... 10x5 will be hard to beat... I'll see what I can come up with.

One other thing, there is no restriction on track length? Because you can fit a lot of track in if you go up high enough.

[EDIT] This is very hard. I just built a 5x8 MultiD 6.7/7.2/6.8, I'll play with it a bit more and try to improve it, though I think it is next to impossible to get the nausea below 6. That said, its one of my favourite rides yet. :D

[rizzla]

Sounds deadly - I have been working on an 8x5, too, but have problems with both nausea and intensity.

Here's a video of my 10x5 (12.4 MB, DivX): www.sininen.de/the_egg.avi

Note that after the cool looping first phase the coaster gets more and more boring with lots of breaks and no corkscrews like in the original design. This was necessary to comply with the competition rules.

[rizzla]

Right, after spending far too many painful hours on this here is my entry for this competition: An 8x6 Looping RC called Skyscraper for obvious reasons. Possibly the excitement stat could be increased a bit by changing the brake speeds so it is not 100% final but I don't really want to return to this one again... :)

http://www.sininen.de/stats.jpg

http://www.sininen.de/skyscrapert.jpg (http://www.sininen.de/skyscraper.jpg)

(click to enlarge)

Here's the download: www.sininen.de/skyscraper.zip

[Thergothon]

That is an awesome looking ride. It is also extrememly similar to my MultiD 5x8 (7.92/9.55/8.x), except much much higher. Well done, this will be very hard to beat.

[rizzla]

Turned out as I wrote in the other thread that it really isn't quite finished yet... Can't remember why I started with the station at the top but I have now moved it down to the bottom, the Skyscraper now supports 4 trains á 4 cars each. A longer station means more cars per train and that actually lowered the intensity that I had been having troubles with as well as the nausea a bit, ratings are now about 7.2/6.6/4.3. Had to make a small adjustment to the bottom part of the track, too, to fit in the paths, but now I really should be close to finishing!

[Thergothon]

Here is what will probably end up being my entry to this competition. It is a twister rollercoaster that I just built in a 6x8 space. For size comparison I built skyscraper next to it... Heh. It is less than a third of the tracklength of Skyscraper, so Im not sure if that means I win or not as the new version of Skyscraper has slightly better excitement?

Anyway, here it is....

http://free.hostdepartment.com/a/atragicopus/ssfpcomp.jpg

[rizzla]

Oh man! Why did I have to build such a bloody huge coaster??? Well, if you watch the video of my previous coaster ("The Egg") which I have linked to earlier you can see that I discovered those loops there and got totally fascinated by them. But when I had finished my coaster with just the loops and little else, the rating was less than 6.5 - it took adding and adding and adding to it to get the excitement rating high enough.

Your coasters (this one and the MultiD) show that it is far easier to reach the mark - maybe the number of inversions is important? None of my loops are due to the way I constructed them... Back to the drawing board...

(Though yes, my ratings have increased - maybe because I added another inversion?)

[rizzla]

Inversions do seem to do the trick! :) I only spent a single hour on this coaster based on yours, Thergothon. So I won't enter it. I basically looked at yours and went from there.

The track layout is so easy that I tried several coaster types with it - some were missing the proper elements (Hyper Twister), some did not allow the same track layout (Floorless) and Looping RC as well as LIM Launch produced disappointing results (exc just above 6, int way above 7).

So here it is, the most basic 8x5 Twister Coaster "Bazooka".

http://www.sininen.de/bazooka.jpg

http://www.sininen.de/bazookas.jpg (http://www.sininen.de/bazookal.jpg)

(click to enlarge)

Download: www.sininen.de/bazooka.zip

(Note: It has a couple of minor problems - even though it should be launched at high speed it is only crawling and the first block brake sometimes only accelerates properly the second time round, but it isn't a real problem.)

[mrdarklight]

There will be first prize based on actual, measurable numbers. However, since I don't want people to get discouraged, there will also be an honorable mention for most creative ride, and an honorable mention for shortest ride. I'll also post a new thread, when all is said and done, so people can vote for a Reader's Choice Award.

Post all coasters, with screens and links to the ride, in this thread.

Rizzla, that's a heck of a nice looking coaster you got there!

We'll have to handle the changing ratings issue - you know, how you can run a ride once and it has one rating, and run it again and it has a different one. I think I will have to confirm the ratings myself (and you can all confirm also) by running the ride on our own systems. Also, when posting, make a note of any special settings you have on your system (like low friction) that can change the ratings and/or viability of the ride.

[mrdarklight]

Also, as far as anyone being discouraged, don't be! Look at the coasters Thergothon and Rizzla posted. They're both very different designs, but have similar stats. It should be an interesting competition.

Also, if any of you would like to send me coasters privately, without posting them here, you can. Send them to robh@meridiansystems.com. That way, nobody will know if there's a secret coaster hiding, waiting to be posted at the last minute.

[rizzla]

I've done it! 30 squares! If only I had known it was this easy... At least I could put my loop building to good use again:

http://www.sininen.de/rodeostat.jpg

http://www.sininen.de/rodeos.jpg (http://www.sininen.de/rodeo.jpg)

(click to enlarge)

Download: www.sininen.de/rodeo.zip

Note: Sorry about the ugly buffalo cars. Only this type allows a train length of three cars which produces just that little bit more excitement to take the number past 7.

[Thergothon]

Damn, I dont see how that is beatable without straight out copying your design and trying to squeeze out a tiny bit more excitement... well done.

That block brake problem on your other rollercoaster, happens if there isnt a single space between the brake and the station, thats why I put a curve out of the start of Fleshpress so I could keep the overall speed high. Which it is.

S.

[rizzla]

Originally posted by Thergothon
Damn, I dont see how that is beatable without straight out copying your design and trying to squeeze out a tiny bit more excitement... well done.

The last two days I really spent too much time with RTC3, when going to bed and closing my eyes I could still see track layouts appearing in front of my eyes. To be honest, I thought that bloody Skyscraper was the limit. You have no idea how much time I spent with that, it just wasn't fun anymore. But my focus was so much on this odd design with the false loops, I didn't sit back and rethink. I was sure nobody else would manage it in 8x6 considering the effort I had to put into it to get the ratings right.

Then you came along with your cheeky screenshot and showed me that it takes far less effort. So I sort of copied your design and felt guilty for producing an 8x5, dunno how you missed it yourself.


That block brake problem on your other rollercoaster, happens if there isnt a single space between the brake and the station, thats why I put a curve out of the start of Fleshpress so I could keep the overall speed high. Which it is.
S.

I see. Well, maybe that was the key for the 8x5? Anyway, then I remembered the Giga Coaster which produces great results - but I thought it was too sluggish for a compact coaster, offering no inversions, no vertical track pieces. I was aiming for a footprint of 10x4 and only while building it suddenly got excited because I had kept the width to just 3. With the normal Giga coaster cars, however, it still was unsatisfactory, the excitement rating was close to 7, but nothing would take me above it - when I increased the length to 12x3 it hit exactly 7.00, only 13x3 took it properly above the mark. And only by pure chance I hit button to change the coaster cars - but again it needed a bit of tweaking to first work on 12x3, then 11x3 and then, finally, on 10x3.

Speed is the key to this coaster's excitement, lower settings on the block brakes are unwelcome. I made a thinking error by placing top-speed block brakes on the lower part of the second loop, thinking I am speeding it up, while I was actually slowing it down! Only after realising that, all fell into place and that 10x3 footprint might just be the limit (though I thought that about 8x6, too).

[Thergothon]

Sorry about the cheeky screenshot, I couldnt help myself :p

However... I have almost beaten your latest, I have a 7.something (I cant remember as I dont have the game on this computer), that is only 12x2 but the intensity is over 8.

Unfortunatly I will be away from the game over the next few days so I wont be able to fix it up or post it for awhile.

[rizzla]

I'm afraid you'll have to do better than that - I have spent some more time with my giga coaster and got it all the way down to 10x2! I'm afraid it's those ugly buffalo cars again.

http://www.sininen.de/slimjimstats.jpg

http://www.sininen.de/slimjims.jpg (http://www.sininen.de/slimjim.jpg)

(click to enlarge)

And here's the download: www.sininen.de/slimjim.zip

[mrdarklight]

Woohoo! What a bunch of crazy designs! Just what I was hoping for.

[Maddack]

lol I was reading this considering compact as 10x10.

Well to make a more realistic competition we should have one without block brakes and lift hills forced :P

[rizzla]

Originally posted by Maddack
Well to make a more realistic competition we should have one without block brakes and lift hills forced :P

When we're finished with this I'd be happy about doing the same competition with a proper lifthill and I agree, maybe without block brakes (or rather, accelerators), as well.

[Thergothon]

10x2? Wow...

I think I could probably equal that with a looping coaster, possibly make it 9x2 but I'll have to wait another few days before I can try it out.

[sniper1263]

Damn you Rizzla... I've been in the process of finishing up my 10 x 2... ARG!

[rizzla]

No problem, Sniper, let's have it, I'd be most interested in seeing other designs. I feel I focus too hard on one coaster type at a time myself, but hey, I played a lot of RTC1, skipped 2, only got 3 a short while back, I still haven't toyed with every coaster out there. I believe, for example, the vertical drop coaster might have the track pieces for an even smaller design. Anyway, I seem to be a slow thinker (damn, used to be different, but age must have caught up with me), it took me hours again to figure out how to get from 13x2 to 12x2 to 11x2 to 10x2 on this very coaster I posted, I knew the potential is there, but I just didn't see what I need to do to make it happen.

P.S.: Thergothon, maybe you are just teasing me! I was finished with this competition when that lifetime project Skyscraper was completed, but keep saying "oh, maybe I can do a 12x2, maybe I can do a 9x2, maybe I'll manage a 3x2" and that keeps me returning to RTC3 which in fact I think I need a break from! :)

[rizzla]

I'm announcing that I am not going to continue (for now) and that thus my 10x2 Giga is my final entry. I do hope somebody will manage something even smaller, I have given it a few more tries but it just ain't fun, cause like in the Skyscraper model I posted the stations are at the top and the designs pretty boring.

Theoretically speaking the smallest possible footprint would be 6x2 - that would require a coaster that can get from flat to vertical very fast and allow vertical twisting as well. The only coaster I know that can do this is the Vertical Drop. With a station way above ground you'd have to start with a drop and keep the whole track below the station unless you can put in one flat piece (block brake = accelerator) somewhere to take you higher. With so little room you run out of options very soon and the best rating I have managed is 5.7/5.5/2.5. So I honestly don't think 6x2 is possible. Maybe, just maybe a 7x2 Vertical Drop could work, but doubtful.

8x2 is the minimum for other coaster types like the Twister - again, place a station at the top and the track below with a few vertical twists you can squeeze in about three pseudo-loops (see the Spyscraper) and even a proper loop (going from vertical into two quarter loops). It might just be possible to get it done with a Twister, though the closest I got is 6.9/6.9/2.5 - taking the excitement above 7 resulted in the intensity also rising well above 7. I'm fairly positive that with 9x2 a Twister would work - and there's a chance of the Vertical drop even working on 8x2...

If anybody is interested I'll make what I have come up with using those two coaster types available and if you keep the competition open for some more days I might still return to them... But all these designs with a drop from a high station are a bit boring, while the Slim Jim Giga Coaster is a work of art... :)

P.S.: Here are some screenshots of the coasters I metioned:
http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=6056056#post6056056

[sniper1263]

I have to say, it was kinda funny reading your last post Rizzla. Just last night, I was going through those same phases you had mentioned... The 9 x 2, 8 x 2, etc. When I got the excitement above 7, the intensity was around 8. I may give it another go, but I have to say, working on this competition has become somewhat boring, since we've become so limited as to what we can make. I guess it's time to take this is the other direction. Creating coasters with the most excitement possible and being able to keep the intensity at a reasonable level. Ofcourse, something else one should concern about is the price. I feel if we are going to make coasters with such greatness, it needs to be realistic and useable... Now I'm sure many of you play in sandbox mode, however, I find it to become tiresome and tedious. I prefer to play in a custom senario in which I start with about 20,000 and my goal being to create a godlike park. By keeping money restrictions, it means you have to deal with the 'micro-management' of the park, and also be efficient with your money spending. Especially with the coasters. Now, I've gone on a big tangent here, but I'm sure you catch my drift.

[rizzla]

Originally posted by sniper1263
I may give it another go, but I have to say, working on this competition has become somewhat boring, since we've become so limited as to what we can make. I guess it's time to take this is the other direction.

Just what I was thinking. mrdarklight can keep it open as long as he wants and maybe somebody will sit down and squeeze out the last bit, but I have done enough. Working all the way down to the 10x2 coaster was a great experience of course.

Creating coasters with the most excitement possible and being able to keep the intensity at a reasonable level.

Well, you've already started that one... :) Though I'm not 100% happy with your scoring system cause I think it favors the Giga. But I'll surely give it a go next.

Ofcourse, something else one should concern about is the price. I feel if we are going to make coasters with such greatness, it needs to be realistic and useable...

I dunno about this. You'd really have to work out how profitable a coaster is. Generally you'd fit a lot more people on a coaster that is bigger. So you'd have to divide price by number of peeps per hour.

The only thing that has an influence on the no. of peeps per hour apart from the tracklength (excitement being ex equo) would be ride time. So if we want to find a really profitable coaster (or design for a specific type of coaster) we'd have to think up some competition for the slowest possible coaster which still boasts high excitement. :)

Now I'm sure many of you play in sandbox mode, however, I find it to become tiresome and tedious. I prefer to play in a custom senario in which I start with about 20,000 and my goal being to create a godlike park. By keeping money restrictions, it means you have to deal with the 'micro-management' of the park, and also be efficient with your money spending. Especially with the coasters. Now, I've gone on a big tangent here, but I'm sure you catch my drift.

Bit off topic but I agree. At least in Sandbox mode rides aren't free and the peeps have to count their coins, too, so you can micromanage if you like. But the incentive is greater if you haven't got unlimited resources.

[Thergothon]

:D :D :D

http://free.hostdepartment.com/a/atragicopus/facepeel.jpg

[rizzla]

Excellent work, Thergothon! I'd say you just managed the smallest coaster for this competition with a station at the bottom - and check out the "air time" which would already put you ahead of the pack for
SFNERules' competition - with a 9x2 coaster and excellent ratings to boot!!! :D

But hey - this coaster does at least two if not three circuits! I guess it ain't disallowed so....

http://www.sininen.de/2x6fivestats.jpg

I just let my smallest coaster do five circuits! :) Ride time is still a bit shorter than yours!

http://www.sininen.de/2x6fives.jpg (http://www.sininen.de/2x6five.jpg)

Download: www.sininen.de/2x6five.zip

[Thergothon]

You are right, mine does 5 circuits. It could do less with a bit of tweaking and still be over 7, but I'm happy with it as it is.

There is no way I am even going to attempt to beat 2x6 unless I put the station at the top, which isn't very practical as a ride, so my 9x2 will be my final entry.

[rizzla]

You are right, it isn't exactly practical. I was thinking about fitting it in a hole or build some sort of cliff but generally speaking I admit we should keep the station at the bottom. So, what competition next? ;)

[The_Skyo]

This is the best I could do for a "real" coaster hehe. none of those block brakes or powered launches.. just 2 brakes to keep intensity down.. 6 inversions in this.. 9x9


http://img195.exs.cx/img195/7514/roached7bd.jpg

[Milkdud]

Can we get a download THe_Skyo? :D

[The_Skyo]

yeah I've got a movie too.. i just don't know where to host.. got an idea?

[clut]

This is a real simple coaster, but I havn't seen it posted yet...

Station at ground level and dimensions are 14 x 1

http://img109.exs.cx/img109/9296/shot00152qf.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)

[rizzla]

Neat little coaster! Where are the stats, though?

And the problem is, no coaster can have a footprint of X times 1 because entrance and exit get counted, too. So the minimum (official) footprint as I argued before is 6x2 - station length of 2 (for entrance and exit) and you need two further squares on either side of the station to get to vertical (which can, I believe, only be done with the Vertical Drop Coaster). However, it'd be impossible to get the necessary excitement level of >7 with only one circuit - I believe the Slim Jim (9x2) is still the smallest anybody managed.

[clut]

Oh, I wasn't sure if the Entrance and exit counted in the footprint...

The stats are pretty low, both Excitement and Nausea in the high 5's, but it's relativly cheap to build, and it has a very fast turnaround of riders, so for a small park in need of money, stick 2 next to each other to have em dueling, and watch the bank balance soar!! :-)