Just the USA

[WarCrisis]

will this game be just based on the USA and their war against terrorism? will there be any other factions like Europe or the UN or NATO

[MajKnuckles]

[Pretend moderator] Hello there, please refer to previous threads here or on the UK forums for addition information on your question. The main site for the game also contains information about the specific factions that will be playable in the retail game, feel free to mostly check the UK site for such information as it contains more content than the US site, we're currently working on both sites so expect more updates in the near future. [/Pretend moderator]


MajorKnuckles

[stock76]

What would happen in a European campaign? The French would retreat in an hour, surrender in a day and collaborate within a week. The Germans would complain about how no one listens to them and end up sobbing in some corner, effectivly fermenting yet another genocidal revolution. The Spanish would keep wandering off the battlefield to do whatever it is they do all day (something about tappas, right?). The British would do their best to over come the rest of Europes issues, only to find that Western Europe actually enjoys having it's ass kicked into next week and living under the rule of some fanatical (this time Muslim) dictatorship.

There you go. For $54.99 you can play that through your head all day long. It's Europes past, present and future.

A RTS in America will be fun. I just don't feel compelled to even spend 1000 pretend lives to save some European Ghetto or god forsaken Egyptian sand pit.

[MajKnuckles]

LOL.. well if that isn't a direct blow then I don't know what is. I think he has a point though, even although i've always wanted to see the UK go up against the US in a game.. both countries have similar technology, the only difference is that we have more pieces of weaponry and more NUKES.

Ok so maybe the UK is a bad side to add ingame.

[nx306]

Stock76: lol, man... why do you think europe won't defend it self ?? just because we don't wanna support US powertrip to control all oil sources in the world ? That we don't wanna kill muslims because they belive in Allah ?

And that doesn't belong here, does it ? :)

WarCrisis: yeah, check www.atari.com/actofwar - here you can learn bits about the story, as well as factions :)

[stock76]

I was referring more directly to World War II, sport. A lot of games try to entertain the idea of a European war with France and Germany there fighting along side the UK and US. I just don't want to see that kind of thing in this game, I can only suspend my disbelief so far!

I don't want to kill any Muslim, champ, especially in this game. In fact, i'm so sick of the "Western World vs. Middle East" scenario that if that stuff is in this game i'll take it back.

Bottom line: I don't think Europe (other than the UK) will defend itself because it really hasn't bothered to in the last few hundred years. I wasn't even kind of talking about the events of the last few years. I don't want to fight in the game along side the french for the same reason I wouldn't in the real world: "Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without an accordion. All you do is leave behind a lot of noisy baggage."

I really hate France, can you tell?

[stock76]

The US fighting the UK would be kind of cool for skirmish and mp. It would be nice to have similar armies with different units to keep things interesting. Leave nukes out of games, they're always so stupid. I loved how the nuke in generals was about 150% stronger than the carpet bombing, if that. The idea is to try to approach realistic warfare, if you did that with a nuke the game would end up just like the world would if we started using nukes: pretty borring after about ten minutes.

[nx306]

actually in WWII UK successed in defending itself :)

[stock76]

Actually they did? For real?

Where, exactly, did I say that they were not "successed" in defending themselves? They did a damn fine job throughout World War II, a tradition which continues today. In fact, I am so proud of what the UK has done throughout recent history that I would consider anys soldier of the Queen just as much a hero as any US Soldier. I clearly excepted the UK from the list of countries too impotent to defend themselves from a fly: "I don't think Europe (other than the UK) will defend itself because it really hasn't bothered to in the last few hundred years."

[sn0wm@n]

Stock76 you are a seriously conceited individual. Making a blanket statement that "I don't think Europe (other than the UK) will defend itself because it really hasn't bothered to in the last few hundred years" is extremely ignorant.
Bringing up 1 war that happened over 50 years ago against an adversary that was better prepared, better equipped and more determined is just silly.
Based on your posts, you are just another war hungry, very near-sighted individual that would rather boast about the military might of the US than to actually consider what a country with that much power could actually do to help the world.
Enjoy the game champ, it is what will eventually happen to the US if we keep our heads up our backsides.

[Chevieblazer]

well, stock has a certain point there, historically speaking.
you forgot to mention the italians, though...
their tanks have just 1 forward gear...and 5 revese
:D
of course, that wouldn't happen today, where europe is one big happy family...untill the next european office needs to be occupied...

which does in no way mean i like or support the crusade for oil of the bush administration

[AgmLauncher]

Im sure a European Union faction in an expansion pack would be great :cool:

[stock76]

Frosty,

I'd like to send you a history book, if that were possible. I know you don't want to give out your specific address, so how about I just send it to a local post office and have it left on will call? I even have one from a Dutch publishing company if you're concerned that all we learn in America is capitalist propaganda. Let me know what you would like me to do.

[sn0wm@n]

What does that even mean?
I find it interesting that because a nation decides that it doesn't agree with the policies of the US, it becomes labeled either a coward or a terrorist.
Don't worry about my knowledge of world history, i have traveled and seen the effects of war, more than any book will ever tell me.
If you don't believe that the US isn't awash with capitalist propoganda then watch the news and do some research on the organizations that own those news organizations.
If you still want to send me a book, send it to Vancouver, WA.

[stock76]

You keep trying to take a discussion about history and talk about politics. History is an attempt to understand the past in order to improve the future. Politics is the simple art of bull****ting your way out of not really knowing anything.

Again, the French are cowards not because of the recent incursion into Iraq, but because of their actions throughout history such as those durring World War II, the Crusades and the conflict in Indochina. I'm not really sure who I labeled a "terrorist." You can't really label a nation as a terrorist, anyway.

I truly hope you're not telling me to watch the news to learn about propaganda. The news is nothing but propaganda. You can't really trust current events anyway, you have to wait for things to settle before you can make any worth while commentary. That's what makes decisions so hard.

Anyway, you have a nice night up their and Washington, frosty. You'll need to let me know the specific postoffice if you would like the book.

[Stof]

That does it !

Any profile named stock76 will be stuck with a llama avatar in Online :mad:

[wasvsdal]

I sense some rivalries building up already.
Man is this game going to be awesome.

Now if they had India! How come no game has India? I mean this world is so sterotypical. India has the 4th best Air Force in the world(following US, Russia, and Britain), and one of the largest armies.

[CPTBrown]

The theories posted about the European military in this thread are a bit disconcerting. Having been deployed to both Kosovo and Afghanistan, I've worked with the militaries of both Germany and France. As a matter of fact, the French military in Afghanistan is out there kicking @$$ every day and you just don't hear about it. Anyone who actually served in the US military and had the privilege of working with these countries can vouch for me.

[MajKnuckles]

I don't think the peeps here are dissing the current state of the European armies.. I believe they are summing up history as a whole.


Anyway India wouldn't be much of a side, hell I think the GLA has more firepower than India, and they didn't even have an airforce. India may have the numbers, but it's also about training and resources, the war in Iraq alone is costing us millions by the day.. now ask yourself if India or any other countries of it's status be dragged in and bogged down by such expenses, I think not. If anyone didn't know about such issues then you need to study history a little more than what the news spills.. the Soviets didn't back down from the Afghanistan military because they were taking heavy losses, or because they were backed by the US.. they simply fought the war for to long and went broke, now they can barely afford to contain conflicts within their own soil.

If you don't have the resources then don't start a war, with that said India is a bad choice for a faction.. NEXT!!


CptB: There will be untold stories of heros in every war, it's only a matter of time before they surface. Sure there are many stories of nations or individuals from other nations that are untold in Afghanistan and Iraq, Canada's snipers in Afgan for one.. most people simply do not care about the little bits of the big picture, all they simply focus on is what is being fed to them on the tv screen.. I don't think that anyone meant downplay the help the US is receiving from it's allies in the fight against terrorism, if anything some people are just misinformed.. carry on the fight.

[Red Cell]

India has nukes - GLA didnt have that kind of firepower :p , and it's not always about the training because modern military technology removes that aspect in some cases.

Another think India has is experience amongst its troops from various conflicts and skirmishes.

In real worlds terms India has another ability, like North Korea and China - the willingness to absorb gigantic civilian casualties in pursuit of victory.

Unless someone has actually served alongside foreign (for them) militaries then I can't see how anyone can talk negatively about them - and I say that as someone who has never been in the military. Fine men and women from countries all around the world are doing jobs which are very dangerous, in places many of us would never wish to go, often for very little in terms of pay.

Some of the chains of thought here, especially about World War II and Europe, are short sighted. France could have fought the Nazi's, but all it would have achieved would have been the further devastation of France and ultimately the same outcome, such a change could have turned the outcome of the war itself as this might have meant a weaker resistance in Europe.

It's always easy to look back at history and think that we know better than those at that place and that time, but we can never know how the smallest of changes may not have had the impact we imagine they would have.

For instance, would a weaker resistance movement in Europe mean that the Nazi attempts to creat the A Bomb were never detected and destroyed - an event that European resistance fighters played a strong part in? If so then the outcome of the war would have been very different. Without the war ending as it did the Cold War may never have happened, we wouldnt have the internet, we wouldnt have this message board.

The only one certainty, borne out by history itself, is that even if Hitler had won, then his regime would have one day died. History shows that no country has ever been able to enslave another forever.

[MajKnuckles]

India has nukes - GLA didnt have that kind of firepower

The Chinese nukes were good, me personally I would prefer a good old Scud storm over a nuke though.. it may look like the scud storm had a wider range of affect but are just about identical, and both did leave the nasty ground after effect(toxins/radiation) so no bonuses there.. the only difference and a major one is that the scud storm didn't require huge amounts of energy to run, destroy a power station or two and watch as the seconds to my scud storm run down, as yours stay frozen.

Mass those energy buildings and i'll send in my demo troops... oh wait better yet, i'll just have them blow up your Nuke.. gotta :heart: the Demo Gen.:D

[stock76]

The nukes is Generals were completely unrealistic. Even a modern tactical nuke is much more powerful than the nukes the chinese had in generals. This lack of realism in Generals wasn't a problem, of course, sense the game didn't focus on the idea of realism too much. If Atari wants a degree of realism in AoW, they probably should just leave WMDs out of the game.

[wasvsdal]

Originally posted by MajKnuckles
Anyway India wouldn't be much of a side, hell I think the GLA has more firepower than India, and they didn't even have an airforce. India may have the numbers, but it's also about training and resources, the war in Iraq alone is costing us millions by the day.. now ask yourself if India or any other countries of it's status be dragged in and bogged down by such expenses, I think not. If anyone didn't know about such issues then you need to study history a little more than what the news spills.. the Soviets didn't back down from the Afghanistan military because they were taking heavy losses, or because they were backed by the US.. they simply fought the war for to long and went broke, now they can barely afford to contain conflicts within their own soil.

If you don't have the resources then don't start a war, with that said India is a bad choice for a faction.. NEXT!!


Youre obviously one of those ignorant, sterotypical people who has no idea about the world.

Our training http://english.people.com.cn/200311/05/eng20031105_127684.shtml (not a biased site, if you havent realized this by now)
We dont wanna get bogged down with Iraq because of one simple reason. ITS STUPID! I mean why do we interfere with US's problems. Theyre not helping us with ours. Infact the way i see it, theyre only make our problems worse. Iraq hasnt done anything to India. And if youre going to say Saddam Hussain this that. Well hes been captured. Iraq doesnt produce any terrorism xcept that directed against its neighboring countries -- for their own personal reasons.

Our economy is growing at a rate 8.3% every year, which is better than most countries. In fact, its right up there with Great Britain, and the United States(them being higher obviously). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_India

India is a quiet nation, and we'd be damn peaceful if it werent for Pakistani's. Its true that there was a time when we went downhill big time. But all of that has changed, and will continue to change. Please dont make that mistake of calling India inferior. Were on our way to becoming one of the superpowers. May take 20-30 years but well get there. Dont believe me, go ahead and do the research. Facts will prove it.

Im sorry if i offended anyone. I obviously love United States as I am also a citizen here but I also cant deal with this crap anymore. People need to READ more, and if they cant do that then they need to stop talking as much.

[wasvsdal]

the Soviets didn't back down from the Afghanistan military because they were taking heavy losses, or because they were backed by the US.. they simply fought the war for to long and went broke, now they can barely afford to contain conflicts within their own soil. -MajKnuckles

Shouldnt that be a good enough reason for why we should pull our troops out of Iraq?
And shouldnt that be a good enough reason for why most countries such as India, France etc. are not participating in the war.

[Comco]

The US going into Iraq for the wrong reasons was bad enough, but they now have a RESPONSIBILITY to stay there until things are stabilized...Leaving now would cause Iraq to desend into anarchy...We (those who were involved and those who claimed to care about the Iraqi people) should now be cleaning up the mess that has been made...

Calling the French cowards because they were siftly defeated in a war they were not ready for is just...Well, let's just say that it's easy for the US to make such snide comments when they sat out such a huge chunk of the war altogether...

Was the French resistance an act of cowardice? Although the French may not have a great record when it comes to fighting successful wars (a fact that even I enjoy teasing them about at times), it takes a special kind of arrogence to take fleeting look at a few history text books and label them simply as "cowards"...One coulda argue that sitting on the fence and watching your "friends" get smashed is as equally unimpressive...

Also...How could you possibly write a list of the worlds top five air forces and not include the Isreali Airforce in there? You want to talk about history? Take a look at the IAF's successes in the Six Day War just to give you one example...

[wasvsdal]

The US going into Iraq for the wrong reasons was bad enough, but they now have a RESPONSIBILITY to stay there until things are stabilized...Leaving now would cause Iraq to desend into anarchy...We (those who were involved and those who claimed to care about the Iraqi people) should now be cleaning up the mess that has been made...

Only reason why Im not part of those peace rallies.

Also I said India has the 4th best air force. US, Britain, and Israel are the ones who are ahead. I didnt include them but I do understand they are amongst the elite. :)

[MajKnuckles]

Youre obviously one of those ignorant, sterotypical people who has no idea about the world

Yeah ok nice comeback.. do me a fav and don't ever speak to me unless I speak to you.. respect your elders young buck.

Shouldnt that be a good enough reason for why we should pull our troops out of Iraq?

No.. Our troops have the experience and our nation has the funds that other don't.. we're in this war for the long run.

[wasvsdal]

im sorry for disrespecting you. I didnt realize you were older than me.

But just because we have the funds, we shouldnt stay in Iraq. Because the way I see it, we could use this fund being used up on other issues such as Education. There are so many people who cannot afford to goto college despite how capable they are.
Besides our fund is limited, no matter how much it is. If we keep using it like this then who knows when well run out of it.

Did you know we gave Pakistan 200 million dollars recently for economic assistance? And we donated 30 million to the Tsunami Victims. That should be enough material to doubt our President's intentions.

[Skipster]

Heh, if I was French I would just say: OK, raise your hand if your army ever made it east into Moscow. What, nobody else? :D

I wouldn't necessarily blame the French (or any Euros for that matter) for not wanting to fight. After all, when you've had armies tramping back and forth over your country for a thousand years, you're liable to get tired of it eventually.

How keen to fight do you think the US would be if the Civil war had happened once every 10-20 years since 1776? And that's onl;y the last quarter of the millenium, never mind the first 3.

IMO, the US is bound to finish what they started in Iraq. Pulling out now would reinforce the idea that all you have to do to beat the US is cost them enough blood and treasure.

It's not Vietnam yet, but if the US pulls out now, it will be.

[Red Cell]

Iraq is more important than some people give it credit for.

It's not just about that one country, it's greater than that. If the democractic elections this weekend succeed then it will be a gigantic blow for many regimes in the Middle East because it essentially puts them on notice that their days are numbered.

Iran, Syria, all the rest, these are nations that everyday see acts on par of those in the former Iraqi regime, and far worse than any committed by coalition forces in Iraq, go un-noticed and unremarked on.

Why is Iraq the battle it is? Because Iran and others cannot afford to have a new democracy hostile to them and friendly to the Western powers slap bang on their doorstep. Iran itself already has Afghanistan.

America and large parts of the rest of the world finally realised post 9/11 that sticking their metaphorical heads in the sand and singing loudly whilst everything goes to hell no longer works as a foreign policy strategy. Al Qaeda became what it was because all it used to do was hit foreign targets in places most of us only ever heard of on TV.

Iraq had successively demonstrated that it was, under Saddam, a threat to regional stability. It still is, but not in the old way, and stability is that of those who do not want their status quo to end.

India as a world power? :D Throw around the stats you want with a life expectancy of 65, environmental damage caused by over industrialisation, Pakistan on one border , China on another, literacy of 60% ish, umpteen religions which don't exactly co-exist, overpopulation etc I don't see it happening. Sure, the current situation mirrors that of countries like the UK at a point in their history but it is a widely recognised academic fact that developing nations will not follow the same development pattern as others did because the world situation is different now.

As for air force, well I think most people would agree that the only Air Force that matters is the best one, undoubtedly the US, followed by the UK and Israel. India's previous air combat enemies have not exactly been of the class that these three can offer - the capability to blow away the enemy from the edge of radar detection is one hell of an advantage. Combat is no longer about the numbers, it's the technology and the training - two things that India's Air Force, as a whole, just does not have.

The two most likely candidates for emerging powers in Asia are China and North Korea though neither will become world powers because their interest and influence barely stretches outside of Asia. Even Russia is shying away from them.

Rant over :p

[Lord_of_the_cow]

Yeah, right Europe doesn't care about anything, but pretending to be a super power thru the U.N. It seems like the europeans don't care how many people you kill as long as you do it in your own borders.(saddam's iraq and the current trouble in suddan and most of africa) Nope, europe wouldn't fight even if they were attacked.. They would be to busy trying to make a deal with the enemy army,(stalling for time) hopeing that the U.N sanctions would take affect..... Sorry, you can't spin it..france quit...and they have been thought of as cowards ever since...

[Comco]

Wow...Is that right? The US is going to take out every "bad" middle eastern country one by one? I think that whole "days are numbered" speech is just a little bit on the stupid side...US forces are stretched right now with forces in Afganistan and Iraq...Invading countries is an expensive and time consuming task...You don't just go in, whoop ass and leave...It requires a commitment of forces for the long term...Countries can be invaded and regiemes toppled a matter of months but it can take decades to regain some form of stability in the country...

And what is to say that Iraq will be friendly towards the US 10 years from now? I can guarentee you there are plenty of people in Iraq who have no love the the US right now...Once allied forces leave and a new, autonomous goverment is put in place, how do you know they will be friendly towards the US? Is post-occupied Germany best friends with the US? Agreeing to help out whenever the US has a great idea or need? How about Japan? These countries will do whatever they see as in their best interests to do...

"America and large parts of the rest of the world finally realised post 9/11 that sticking their metaphorical heads in the sand and singing loudly whilst everything goes to hell no longer works as a foreign policy strategy. Al Qaeda became what it was because all it used to do was hit foreign targets in places most of us only ever heard of on TV."

Haha! Al Qaeda is where it is today because of the actions of US foreign policy over the last 50 years...Countless interfearence in foreign countries, arming one side to annihilate the other...There is enough hatred of the US today to allow Al Qaeda to continue its expansion because of US ACTIONS, not inaction...

[Lord_of_the_cow]

No, Al Queda is where it is today because alot of good people just sat by and done nothing.
If the world got together and said terrorism will not be tolerated, and took a stand..not soundbites and lip servise. Too bad the U.N failed in it's job as world peacekeeper.. Don't give me that last 50 years U.S policy...every country on the planet has had their dirty hands in the middle east..France, Germany and a few other european nations had billions dollars in contracts with saddam and every other madman for the promise of oil....and were highly pissed off when the U.S invaded... I wonder how much things would have been different if President Bush would have paided off saddam debt and gave contruction contracts to european firms to rebuild iraq.. I wonder how much bellyacheing would there be now...
Is it really okay for a rogue government to kill their own people just for the stability, (like the mass graves in iraq, and the killing in the sudan)? Don't you care? I think that the time of hideing behind U.N sanction is over.. Why is the world just sitting back and letting Al Queda bully everybody..

[stock76]

Hahahahahahahahah. I LOVE IT!!!!!

It's so easy to be AntiAmerican, yet so hard to think logically.

[Comco]

And only pure arrogance allows one to think that the only form of reason that can be correct is there own... ;)

And just for the record, I am not European nor am I anti-American...

Pinning down the reasons for the ascension of groups such as Al Quaeda to single issues is, of course, ridiculous...The situation is much more complex than I can pretend to understand...

All that concerns me is the "f@#$ you" attitude of many americans these days..."We do not believe you are doing enough to stop terrorists in your country, so don't be surprised if we start putting troops into your country to stop them...". That is a declaration of war under anyone’s terms...Unfortunately many other countries (Russia, England, Australia etc etc) have all vowed the same threat now...It makes other neighbouring countries very nervous as to their intentions...Just understand that, although the intentions of these nations may be to "protect the world from terrorism", most other countries see it as an overt flexing of military muscle and a threat to their own sovereignty...

One could argue that the political climate in the world today is much colder than it was, ironically, before the invasions of iraq and afghanistan...

Don't get me wrong, I supported the toppling of both Saddam's and the Taliban regimes...These were evil regimes responsible for the murder of tens of thousands...What I don't like is the fact people had to lie to get the job done...(I am, of course, referring to WMD's)...If the cause was so "just" then why did people feel the need to fabricate evidence? The whole thing just leaves a sour taste in my mouth...

[stock76]

ahahhahahahahahahhahahaahahaha

I
LOVE
IT.

[WarCrisis]

What has Saddam ever done to the USA? At least he kept order in his countrey. Remember that terrorists fight just like if a countrey where to fight except if u attack as an countrey you get nuked, therefore they attack like they did on sept, 11. What about England? aren't they also European? are they also not in Iraq? how about Italy, Holland, and Spain. The reason most countries in Europe don't want war is because they already had so much of it.

The US however is still young and eager to pick some fights. Ofcourse the US has its OIL tactics which make the USA a powerfull nation. Making freinds with terrorists for oil...hmmm not a bad plan if ya think about it. Although Ocasionly you might get some terrorists that don't like what the USA is doing and attack like Osama Bin Ladin.

[stock76]

Saddam kept order, sure. Hitler did too, and after the US and UK kicked the feces out of Germany, that place was a dump for quite a while. Should have left him, though, huh? Sure he killed six million jews, but who did that hurt?

Terrorists attack like countries attack? WHAT? It appears that English is a second language for you, but is rational thought a second process? The US has ****ed up quite a bit. You can ***** and moan about more modern injustices, but I think the firebombing of Dresden by US and UK forces is a better example. The two countries killed in the neighborhood of 140,000 people. It was a horrible thing to do, but not nearly as bad as terrorist acts against New York City and Madrid. The reason is the bombing of Dresden was against military targets, not a building full of office workers or a train station full of children. The people who were in Dresden were, very sadly, collateral damage.

Most countries in Europe don't want war because they've had too much of it, you're right. Europe desperately wanted to talk things out with Hitler following World War One, because they had experienced too much war. Who knows how many died because of that decision. Other countries refuse to fight for more insane reasons. Some unnamed countries were scamming funds off Oil for Food programs and too busy helping the enemy dig mass graves.

The US is eager to pick fights? Crystal meth or black tar heroin?

The "War for Oil" theory is the mark of someone who truly knows nothing. Do you know how much oil the US recieves from OPEC? You might look that up, smart guy. It's next to nothing. And if it were about oil, where the f.u.c.k is my rebate check? I've been paying $2.09/gallon for five years now.

If you really want to get into it, the Arab world made friends with the US for oil. Oh my god, am I crazy? No. Oil was discovered by US Engineers hired by Saudi Arabia to look for coal. The Americans insisted they also be allowed to check for oil reserves while they were at it, but the Saudi government refused to fund such mining, as they felt it was impossible anything that good come from a giant sand box. But, like cat sh.it in a litter box, the AMERICANS found OIL in Saudi Arabia. Wow, kind of funny how nice we were to allow the Saudi people rights to that oil. Sure did make a nice country for them. Thanks America!

You were right about one thing, we do eventually find those nut cases that hate America for what it does around the world. It has nothing to do with religion, economics or nationalism. It's pretty much the same as murder. Just some guy that finally went off the deep end. Fortunately, terrorism can have no real effect on this country, or any country for that matter. They precipitated a certain ammount of self doubt in this country, but that is all. Really, even the self doubt has a lot of positive aspects. Only time will tell, really.




Oh, and by the way, i'm very angry at the local police who gave me a ticket for going 100MPH. They really are bastards, aren't they? Someone has to do it, though, I guess. People are going to hate them for doing it.

[WarCrisis]

Terrorism has no effect on this country? Are you blind? after sept, 11. flying became a nightmare, even though iam still 100% more likely to die from a technical error on the plane that a terrorist hijacking a plane. China is a bigger threat then any Arab country is. Sure you might say it hs no effect on the countrey, but it does on the people. American people are always pumped with fear. So its easy to convince a country to do whatever. Ofcourse the fear they use isn't like what Stalin used but still the same concept. Like I say there is nothing wrong with the USA just the people. They only way the states can control Iraq is using the tactics the Nazi's used like camps. Wait they do use camps. God bless America

[stock76]

No real effect, no. You think American fear is a product of terrorism? I hate to say it, but we've pretty much been afraid of everything since the 1950's. A good 10% of our economy is based on fear, whether it be fear of small pox or the secret chemicals inside our TVs that are killing our children as we speak.

Flying is pretty awful now days, but it's always been pretty awful. People complain a lot, but not that much has really changed. A couple extra searches here and there, but I think a lot of the new techniques and new technologies would have evolved without some nut case dawning a turban and killing 3,000 innocent people.

China is a bigger threat than any Arab country? Did they teach you that in Pop Culture 101? Every once in a while I hear what a threat China is. How is China a threat? They are a nation just as any other, whose goal is personal prosperity. It's not 1890, no one achieves prosperity through imperialism or nationalism. The war China is waging is in the world market, and it is doing quite well. To think that China would attack another nation is to not understand the vast economic changes taking place in that country at this very moment.

I can't help but notice how logically disconnected your argument is when you state that "it [has] no effect on the [country], but it does on the people." That doesn't even kind of make sense. If the American people are pumped with fear, the country is pumped with fear. The people are the country. You can attempt to argue that the government is a separate entity, but it truly is not. The government is an extension of the people, they carry out our will. I am forced every day to take responsibility for the actions of my government by people like you, so I will not see a separation between the people and government when it just so happens to fit into your argument.

"There is nothing wrong with the USA just the people"
Bit of a generalization there, isn't it? I mean, even if we are 100% wrong with the recent actions taken in the middle east, there is still nearly 50% of the country dissenting, isn't there? I mean, there are probably quite a few people in this country who think almost identically as you. Are they included with whats wrong with America? Are people just like you whats wrong with America. You start making generalizations like that, and you open a door you dont want to open. "Muslims are what is wrong with the world", "All Blacks are inherently criminals", "Jews control the media and will use that advantage to control the world."

My last point will once again center around you showcasing your ignorance. "They only way the states can control Iraq is using the tactics the Nazi's used like camps. Wait they do use camps." I will admit, again, that the US is out of line with the way it is handling certain issues. Especially the crimes committed at Guantanamo Bay (Camp X-Ray) and Abu Ghraib. The criminals who are violating international law in their interrogation techniques should be prosecuted by the UN to the fullest extent of the law without question. Prisoners should be granted the opportunity to seek legal action against prison staff, administration, and the US government for mistreatment and/or false imprisonment. HOWEVER, to compare the treatment of prisoners in Iraq and Cuba to the treatment of Jews and other "Undesirables" in Hitler’s death camps is beyond ignorant, it is pure hate. What happened to those men, women and children during the 1940's is incomparable to anything that has happened in recent history. By comparing WWII death camps to modern prisoner abuse, you trivialize the pain, anguish and suffering millions of people were forced to endure for years. Your statement was way out of line.

Today is the Anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz, where nearly 1.5 million people were murdered in cold blood. These are the people you are disgracing. The following is an article on the ceremony that took place in Germany earlier today:
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20050128/D87SP43O2.html

This link is to a letter written by a Cav Commander in the US Army. It is a wonderful insight into the world outside of the narrow vision of a disturbing reality the media creates on a daily basis. http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/05/breaking2453389.0680555557.html

[WarCrisis]

Ok tell me what Arab countrey is gonna declare war on the states? Iraq? to late the sates already declared war on them twice. Iran? Not one Arab countrey is a threat to the sattes not one. However China has the largest army in the world they still lack new technologies but thanks the there increasing ecodomy they will be able increase there streangh. Americans still fear communism more then any arab government. Tell me what Arab countries have as many weapons of mass destruction as the states does. The states alone can nuke the planet twice. China is a threat wether you like it or not. Just because Arab places harbor terrorists doesn't mean that it the countrey who is at fault. Not sure if you heard about the chinise spy's in North America or the fact that China may attack Thialand which would get the USA involved... If you worked for the CIA you would hear china just about as much as any Arab countrey.

[stock76]

I thank Allah that your views are confined to this forum and your own special little world.

No Arab government is going to declare war on the US. No Arab government ever has. The world doesn't work like that anymore, don't you understand that? No American fears any Arab government, never have and never will. America, and the civilized world, fear religous extremists. Afghanistan and the Taliban possed NO threat to the United States, but the extremists it harbored did. Saddam Hussein and his band of thugs were not a government, only warlords and murderers.

I'm gong to ask you again: Why is China a threat to the US? What do the stand to gain from exhibiting outward aggression towards the US or its allies? Lots of countries have large militaries, does that automatically make them a threat to the US?

"Not sure if you heard about the chinise spy's in North America or the fact that China may attack Thialand which would get the USA involved... " What? Seriously, what planet do you live on? Do you mean Taiwan? If China takes action towards any nation, it will be Taiwan. China is in THAILAND as we speak spending millions of dollars helping that Nation control the damage from the Dec. 26 Tsunami. Or is that a secret spy mission they're disguising as disaster relief to help fulfill their miniacal plan of destroying the US?

You're right that if China started walking around Asia starting fights with people the US would step in. I would also expect the UN and Nato to fully commit to stopping such aggression. But even if China did (which they won't), the conflict would stay confined to Asia. Want to know how I know? History tells us so. During both the Korean and Vietnam conflicts the Chinese involved themselves and at times their troops, as did the USSR. If you remember, neither the US, China or USSR even considered direct aggression towards each other, they all knew the costs were too high. China's not going to start a fight with anyone, especially the US, because they simply have too much to loose.

"Tell me what Arab countries have as many weapons of mass destruction as the states does." Again with the nation thing. The global market is too important to national and internation prosperity to start flinging nukes around just to make sure they still work. The US has tons of weapons, some that you can't even fathom, but the truth is it has very little will to use them. Maybe in a two hundred years when the world is a different place and the US a third world nation the nukes here will be a threat, but at this point they are not. Nukes are not practical weapons against terrorists, so we have no use for them at this point.

"Just because Arab places harbor terrorists doesn't mean that it the countrey who is at fault." My friend John just murdered a family of four, but John is my friend. Since I care for John so much I hide him in my basement for three weeks before the police finally catch on and arrest him. But why should they arrest me? I have done nothing wrong... right? Wrong, buddy. Harboring criminals on any level is aiding criminals. If people refused to harbor criminals, it becomes much harder for cowards like Bin Laden to comit their crimes. The American government does not demand that all Arab governments keep their countries free of terrorists, but simply that they do their part in combating terrorism. Pakistan, for example, has a fire large concentration of suspected terrorist bands along it's border with Afghanistan, but the US would never attack them. You know why? Because that government goes out of its way to help the rest of the world by funding counter terrorist groups to hunt and destroy terrorist cells within its own borders.

Espionage is a reality of modern world politics. We are spied on by the Russians, Chinese, Germans, French, Japanese, Koreans, Canadians, Mexicans, Bulgarians. Just the same we spy right back. It's the name of the game, my friend. You hear about people, especially Asians, spying on the US for two reasons. First of all, the US is a leader in cutting edge technological innovation. Second of all, the Western world is just like you: generally pretty racist. We fear the "chinese menace" because their darker skin and specific facial features make them easy to identify. This is ideal for the simple minded idiot, as it is a simple problem with a simple solution. Sure, it's not based on reality, but what does reality matter?

Last point and then i'll "shut [my] fat american mouth." You say that Americans still fear Communism more than Arab governments? That statement is wrong on so many levels I don't know where to start. What makes you think Americans still fear communism? Is that statement based on something or is it just some random generalization you made after watching an 1980's spy movie? I live in a pretty liberal place, and I know quite a few members of the American Communist Party. People who choose that form of political theory are pretty well accepted in this country, except for the random nutcase here and there that thinks it's 1950 Berlin. I can assure you that American fear of Communism and Arab governments is about at the same level: somewhere right around ZERO.

[WarCrisis]

Sorry I ment Tiawan. But never the lese Iam proving my point that NO Arab countrey poses a threat to the States. the States poses a threat to them. As for communism I think it was a good thing. Although most people would say if lenin never invented the politics of communism Russia would be a great country and there never would have been a cold war. Well if the Csar where still around in world war two there would be no Russia, therefore no cold war.

Ya the USA spies, they do it with 10 satilites and the most powerful spy agency the CIA. Thanks to the patriot acts they can now spy on everyone in the country. And at airports anyone entring the sates goes intoa system they can spy on. All because an 10 year old boy going to New york for a soccer tournoment is as likely to be a terrorist as an arab man with a turban sweating carring what seems to be a suitcase waith a bomb. There have been houndreds of attemped plane hijcakings in the last 10 years. In france they even have special police just to prevent hijackings. But why didn't anyone do things to stop this before sept 11? Because still had to happen in the States?

[dna0608]

I grow so tired of the ignorance of some. They say we invaded Iraq for the oil. It's all about the damn oil. So can you explain to me this. If it's all about the oil why didn't we invade Canada. I mean common we could of wrapped that up over a long weekend. I know you ask why Canada. Because there the biggest supplier of oil to the US. http://www.canadianembassy.org/trade/energy-en.asp

Then when were finished with Canada we could of taken out Mexico. Another 3 day weekend. With those 2 countries in our pocket we would of shored up 2 out of 3 of our biggest suppliers.

Overall, the top suppliers of oil to the United States during 2002 were Canada (1.9 MMBD), Saudi Arabia (1.6 MMBD), Mexico (1.5 MMBD), and Venezuela (1.4 MMBD). from http://www.solcomhouse.com/usenergy.htm

I just don't understand why we went half way around the world to fight in a war for oil that has killed many of our own soldiers when we could of taken out Canada and Mexico and only lost 3 toes and a finger. Those of you who believe this is about oil need to get your heads out of your a**. And for those who believe all the U.S. does is go around the world starting wars just remember if we wanted to own the world we would start in our own back yard. The Germans didn't travel half way around the world to start WWII.

[Comco]

Actually, not that I believe the US wants "world domination" or any of that bullsh#t and I don’t believe the US went to Iraq because of oil, but the rebuttal to that argument is actually quite simple...

It is far easier and less risky to declare war on an arab state (in this case) than a western neighbour...Can you imagine the world wide outcry if the US (what a stupid scenario anyway) invaded Canada? Not only their vocal opponents would get involved but the US would find itself without a single friend in the world...You don't invade your allies. Period.

It is much easier to invade a country you can easily pass off as having an "evil" regime that must be destroyed...People will oppose that, but not one will intervene militarily...I guarantee you, if the US were to invade a country such as Canda, other nations would come to their aid in some form or other...You can claim that the US would kick everyone’s asses of the face of the Earth all you like but the fact is, not even the mighty United States can afford the "dreaded" UN Sanctions that would be imposed on it... :)

But, like I said, it's a totally ridiculous scenario anyway... ;) :)

[dna0608]

But, like I said, it's a totally ridiculous scenario anyway...

Exactly the point I was trying to make.

But do you honestly believe the citizens of the US fear the UN. That's quite hysterical. Without the wad of cash we send to the UN it wouldn't amount to a pile of you know what. But hence I do note a tad bit of sarcasm in the way you say it so I will chalk it up as that.

[Skipster]

Originally posted by WarCrisis
What has Saddam ever done to the USA?

Well, he failed to defeat Iran after being helped out by the US, for one thing :D

Originally posted by stock76
[B] You can ***** and moan about more modern injustices, but I think the firebombing of Dresden by US and UK forces is a better example. The two countries killed in the neighborhood of 140,000 people. It was a horrible thing to do, but not nearly as bad as terrorist acts against New York City and Madrid. The reason is the bombing of Dresden was against military targets, not a building full of office workers or a train station full of children. The people who were in Dresden were, very sadly, collateral damage.

Dunno where you got that info, but it's wrong. The raid on Dresden was planned , targetting German civilians. You don't use 2 waves of incendiary bombs on military/industrial targets.

The only difference between Dresden and Hiroshima is the body count and the number of bombers. And 140000 is a bit low, some reports claim over 200000 deaths. And that's just the ones where enough of them remained to be counted.

[Sonic Enforcer]

1. China
Anyone who thinks China is no threat to the United States of America and any other freemarket country (Ally of United States or not) that has anything worth stealing is down right stupid.
China has been at WAR with the United States since it was able to go online. They steal more corporate information then any other country and they use it in there basicly goverment controled buisness sectors to boost Chinese economy and to boost Chinese power and control over Asia.
A fight with China is looming for the United States and or alteast Japan (3rd biggest ally next to Great Britian and Australia) because of our stand with South Korea and Taiwian.

2. No War For Oil, no WMD WAHWAHWAH!!!!!!
The American Military is for the protection of Americans and American Interests in the United States and outside of US borders and to a lesser extent American Allies.
Has anyone ever read the documented reasons for the invasion and liberation of Iraq? WMD was on there but so where a bunch of other reasons.
Yet we hear, "If Iraq was such a problem why didnt Clinton invade or why didnt Bush invade earlier?"
Clinton was in fact looking for a reason to invade Iraq. Look deep into what Clintons administration had to say or do when it came to Iraq.
Bush didnt invade earlier because he just didnt have the ability to do so. After 9/11 it was hunting season.

3. Its the worlds fault, mostly the United States fault for Terrorisim now.
Look at who we where fighting before. "Big Bear" the communist machine at full throtle, It was Cold War time. The unfortunate but real fact is that back then the enemys enemy is our friend. Most people can see the fact that not everything is black and white. Sometimes even your allys arent the best people around. (Flashback to WWII and Russia)
NATO stood up against the Soviet Union, the Soviet Union feel and everyone got realy relaxed. A big mistake for all and we are paying for it now.

4. France
French Goverment (right now), rather annoying. Jaques Chirac wants to tax the world, can kiss my @$$.
French Military (VIA WWII), didnt last to long.
French Resistance (VIA WWII), good people.
French Military (right now), a good fighting force.
I personaly have no problem with the French not being in Iraq. I hear there haveing a fun time in the Ivory Coast anyways. :rolleyes:

5. The United Nations.
As usefull as a wet paper bag for carrying 3 pounds of grocerys.
The United Nations needs to be replaced by a League of Democracys

[stock76]

Skipster,

You may be right about specific targets, but it appears the main importance of Dresden was communications and also as a major cross roads for German military transportation. The inflated numbers you are using are the result of a Communist smere campaign used by the Russians durring the Cold War to discredit the US. They have been proven to be very far from reality over and over again. Even my estimate of 140,000 was much too high.

Sonic Enforcer - Good to see that people can still think around here.

[WarCrisis]

dna

The reason the USA doesn't invade Canada is becuase Canada has allies. Iraq does not. Even though Russia had good connections with Iraq they would never go into a war with the USA. Mexico, well I don't care about mexico, its a lost cause.

" the Germans didn't traval half way around the world to start WWII". Well they did. Believe it or not but there where Nazi's marching in Madision square New York. The "Nazi's didn't get money from a money tree. they used American banks.

[stock76]

WarCrisis,

Do you actually believe what you post? I'm starting to think this just might be a joke.

[WarCrisis]

Stock76,

Your Damm right I believe in what I say..maybe you don't know the world as much as I do, but i tell you now that what your saying to me is nothing more then what they would say on CNN. I think you should take the world more serious. And when China goes to war with the US I hope China wins just to show your ignorance on this matter.

[Acunnon]

China and the United States will not be going to war any time soon. China and the US are making to much money off the rest of the world to consider losing market share over what would be a long protracted war in which many military and many civilian (both Chineese and American civilians) lives would be lost for little over all gain. There is simple no good reason for it at this time or for the forseeable future.

I can give you a simple and a complex answer as to why the US and arad extremits hate each other. The simple answer culture, the long answer will take a little more space. Man has found reasons to hate and kill eachother since the first human picked up a stick and bashed the second humans skull in. Radical Muslum ideology is rooted in medevil social thoughs, women keep covered, pray to god regularly, men make all the decisions, and a slew of other smaler elements. They hate us because we are in direct contradiction to everything they belive in. We hate them because we hold freedom for all in though speech and religion to be paramount in the advancment of human kind. The US fears these radicals because we see them as skulking in the shadows killing us when out back is turned. In a sence they will not stand tow to tow so we can annilate them. It is culture, a battle between the past and the future in a way.

Personaly I think this is the reason so many nations dislike us and we dislike them culture.

[stock76]

If I knew you were a real person and not a monkey they taught to type, you would be the most ignorant person I know. That or full blown crazy.

Do you stand on a street corner wearing paper bags and scream about the end of the world? I can't even continue to argue with you, because it makes me feel bad. It's like when my five year old cousin tells me about purple and yellow zebras. I always prove her wrong, but then feel bad for putting a five year old to shame.

[WarCrisis]

Thats something you tell the American government.

[dna0608]

dna

The reason the USA doesn't invade Canada is becuase Canada has allies. Iraq does not. Even though Russia had good connections with Iraq they would never go into a war with the USA. Mexico, well I don't care about mexico, its a lost cause.

My point was that the US isn't trying to shore up there oil reserves by going to war. The thought of the US going to war with Canada is laughable, just like us invading Iraq for oil is. That was my point. But since you seem to think that if we would declare war on Canada we'd face stiff opposition. Could you please name these allies of Canada that could stop us? If the US was the evil monster the world proclaims we are we would care less about Canada's allies. It's rather funny that those of you who don't even live in this country or have an inkling of what we stand for always go around preaching just how horrible th US is.

[stock76]

I'm really starting to think arguing with this WarCrisis character is just about the dumbest thing i've ever done. It's beyond pointless. I don't think he really has any concept of the world around him, outside of his illconcieved idea of world politics that he seems to have picked up from a couple of Tom Clancy style "War Thrillers". His theories, if you can even call them that, are so inane and thoughtless, my little cousin referred to him as a "stupid idiot dumbhead" and actually made more sense than he has in a week.

WarCrisis: Read some history and take an undergrad critical thinking class. I always assumed no one was so unintelligent as to actually benefit from such a class... I stand corrected.

I hope people are starting to see just what the US and UK have been working for, despite so many other western nations trying to undermine our efforts. The Iraqis turned out to vote on Sunday, and they did a damn fine job. I cannot express how happy and proud I am. Proud of the coalition soldiers, the US government, and the Iraqi people. In the end you will see this is not a war for oil, money or land, but for the greater prosperity of the entire world. We don't need your thanks or approval, the gratitude of a free Iraq is plenty.

[Acunnon]

A lot nations and people out there just do not realize that there are barbariens (extreamists, terrorists, rouge nations) at the gates and no one but the United States (and the other members of the world willing to help us) is willing to stand on the wall and fight to keep the barbariens out. If you do not like the job we are doing climb up here pick up a rifle and help.

[MakeTnotwar]

Originally posted by stock76
What would happen in a European campaign? The French would retreat in an hour, surrender in a day and collaborate within a week. The Germans would complain about how no one listens to them and end up sobbing in some corner, effectivly fermenting yet another genocidal revolution. The Spanish would keep wandering off the battlefield to do whatever it is they do all day (something about tappas, right?). The British would do their best to over come the rest of Europes issues, only to find that Western Europe actually enjoys having it's ass kicked into next week and living under the rule of some fanatical (this time Muslim) dictatorship.

But would a USA only game not be too simple? Terrorists hide in a city so everything is carpet bombed to smitherins. Mission complete. All Terrorists and Civilians dead. Let god sort out the good ones.
This is a GAME, moron.

[stock76]

I love how the world to you is the US and Europe.

First of all, I was joking. Its called sarcasm, champ. Of course you wouldn't make a RTS game with just the US and Terrorists. I was simply pointing out the humor in trying to balance realism and enjoyment (after all this is supposed to be a "realistic" RTS) while taking into account Europes very, shall we say, "colorful" past. Most of Europe is currently in the business of doing anything and everything they possibly can before going to war, including selling out to the enemy (US Congress on French involvement in the Oil for Food Program). If people would like to suspend disbelief and pretend Europe suddenly started fighting wars instead of complaining, then put them in there. Otherwise, there are quite a few other countries that would make a lot more sense in a game like this. For example: Pakistan and India, China, Indonisia, Iran, Syria, Venezuala, Brazil, etc. If you're looking for a real world war scenario in a game that does not involve ten years of diplomacy, you're going to have to leave most of Europe out. Moron.

Also, i'd like to make it clear I wasn't criticising the UK in the post McDumb**** quoted. I was simply saying that the UK tries to over come the failures of the rest of Europe, but it is often too much to ask. They do their best and when they need help theres always that special someone across the pond that is willing to help.

[WarCrisis]

Stock76,

Your like an American when WWI ended. You thought well Germany is dead now, and they will never do anything again. Now we can forget about them. I know my history very well.

I fell like Iam talking to a brainwashed person here.

dna,

if you think that having 11,00 people murdered each year in the states isn't a horrible thing well.....I have nothing more to say to you. The states build weapons of mass destruction near the poorest places in the USA.

Yah Canada is a good supplier of OIL. I live in Alberta we are one of the biggest oil suppliers. What do we get in return. closing borders to our meat.

The US isn't the monster, its the people running the US who are.

[dna0608]

The states build weapons of mass destruction near the poorest places in the USA.

You have to be either mentally off your rocker or you just smoked some good sh*t. Why no link to the proof of your accusations. Because there is none you luney tune. The citizens of this country would never stand for sh*t like that in this day in age. But then again I have to remember the source.

[stock76]

01-27-2005 07:41 PM: "Like I say there is nothing wrong with the USA just the people. "
02-01-2005 03:18 PM: "The US isn't the monster, its the people running the US who are."

Is it our government or US citizens? Please decide and let us know so we can better comform to your "ideals". You're so all over the board that you can't keep your beliefs straight from one week to the next.

There’s no doubt in my mind that Anti-Semitic feelings in Germany will quickly return when the country plunges into a major recession, just as they did in the 1930's. It was a hard lesson to learn the first time, but I doubt the same mistakes will be made again. Furthermore, I will remind you that the US still effectively occupies Germany. We have large bases and significant troop garrisons throughout the country. A repeat of such events in Germany is highly unlikely any time soon.

Is anyone with views different from your own brainwashed? I think I have responded thoughtfully to even the most illogical of your arguments. Critical thinking is, by definition, outside the ability of a "brainwashed" individual, is it not? You may disagree with my, but I have certainly criticized your arguments with a high degree of forethought and logic.

11,000 people die in the US every year, I will trust your statistic. How does this compare, Per Capita, to murder rates in Canada? I know that Campbell River, in British Columbia, has one of the highest heroin users per capita in the world. Also, the US has the highest degree of racial, cultural, and religious diversity, often causing racial/cultural/religious tension. There is no excuse in the end, though, and Americans such as myself work everyday to combat violence as best we can.

Your meat was possibly infested with mad cow disease. The only way to stop the disease is to limit its spread. Would you rather loose entire cow populations to a disease that could have been dramatically limited by a simple quarantine? Would you rather have people dying of Mad Cow disease in ten years so you could sell your meat? PEOPLE DIE FROM MAD COW DISEASE. From your several posts it is obvious to me you have very little respect for human life.

You know history about as well as a new born knows how to use the toilet.

[nx306]

stock.... LOL :() just one thing, 11000 per year might be killed in US, but about 5000 a __DAY__ are being killed by US foreign politic :)

And, no offense, but you look like a brainwashed one not only for him, but also me and dozen of others :))

[stock76]

How? I'm honestly curious. Because I support the majority of US Foreign policy? There is plenty I am willing to criticize... plenty I do. I realize that often I say things too dramatically, I can revert to a very "fire for effect" type of personality, but I just don't see how I am acting as if I have been "brainwashed". I refuse to accept the idea that the US is some great evil bent on world domination, as people like WarCrisis would have the rest of humanity believe.

I don't understand the smiley face after the foreign policy statement. Are you being sarcastic or do you think it's funny? Where did you get that number? Just seeing it on the internet doesn't mean much, there's plenty of garbage on the internet.

[stock76]

I can't help but wonder why you didn't respond to my question to WarCrisis' last post referring to me as "Brainwashed":

"Is anyone with views different from your own brainwashed? I think I have responded thoughtfully to even the most illogical of your arguments. Critical thinking is, by definition, outside the ability of a "brainwashed" individual, is it not? You may disagree with my, but I have certainly criticized your arguments with a high degree of forethought and logic."

So what was the point of your statement? Just to use the term "brainwashed"? Biased I could understand, but brainwashed... do you two even know what brainwashing is?

[WarCrisis]

Stock I wasn't alking about after World War "two" I was talking about after World War "one". But that brings me to question why does the States even have a base still down there? Russia is no longer a comunist country, Germany has no army capalbe of taking over the world. Bosnia and all those places are no longer in major conflicts.

[stock76]

"Your like an American when WWI ended. You thought well Germany is dead now, and they will never do anything again. Now we can forget about them. I know my history very well."

Aren't you saying that American complaceny following World War I was partially to blame for World War II and the late arival of US Armed Forces to the conflict? Am I completely missing something? If that wasn't your point, what in the world was?

The US still has bases because of a little organization called NATO. They love us and our big ass, bad ass military. The fact is, we sat around Europe for fifty years willing to step in and kick some communist ass if the Soviets ever found their way across the border. All involved countries did a wonderful job of avoiding any direct armed conflict that would have resulted in massive cassualties across Europe.

If you knew history, as you previously claimed, you would know that following World War I it was widely believed that Germany was incapable of presenting any serious military threat for at least several decades following the severe beating they took. This was a widespread belief up until the late 1930s. Amazing what a military and industrial machine fueled by pure hate can produce in only five years, isn't it? Didn't you just make the same mistake you accused me of making in the above mentioned post?

I won't get into Bosnia, but I assume most of you understand the conflict and the hugely inappropriate involvement of several French politicians and businessmen, if you can call them that. I believe the US still has troops there undoing the massive damage that was done.


Posted by WarCrisis:
Post #1: "Your like an American when WWI ended. You thought well Germany is dead now, and they will never do anything again. Now we can forget about them. I know my history very well."
Post #2: "...why does the States even have a base still down there? Russia is no longer a comunist country, Germany has no army capalbe of taking over the world."

Also, why don't you ever answer my questions? You accuse me of being brainwashed, but refuse to qualify your statement with any supporting evidence. An argument is only valid if presented with some sort of evidence.

[WarCrisis]

What questions would you like my to answer?

[stock76]

Is anyone with views differing from yours "brainwashed"? What sort of behavior/ideals suggest to you that an individual has been brainwashed? How have I exhibited such behavior?

Not to mention all of the questions from my last post as well as the other previous ones (whatever you have time for is fine).

[DXII][Smedley]

Wow. that was a lot or response

[MajKnuckles]

I wish I was a mod because I would lock this thread.. crap like this keeps newcomers in the shadows and I don't blame them, why come into a community when there is bickering everywhere.



Point being.. calm the hell down people, for the sake of peace everyone is right so let there be peace.:downcast:

[stock76]

i'll agree to that. I'm done with this bull****, it's pointless anyway.

[WarCrisis]

Yeah this topic has gone a little far, although my question still hasn't been answered.

[stock76]

I'll PM/Email you my email address, you can ask me whatever you like.

[Devon]

I cant imagine Europe using their token armies for anything but a defense of an invasion in the future.

But anyways:

The guy who says India will become a superpower, it may, but it wont help that the country is overflowing with way too many people. If India had 1/5th the population it does now, things would be much, much better there.

[stock76]

India has a horrible AIDS problem as well, does it not? I believe they rival many African countries as far as infection rates go. Kind of hard to do a whole lot when your country is being hit with one of the worst diseases since the Black Plague.

[BOMBLORD]

my opinion is that china will not go to war in the near fueture.they need some time,to gather funds,and to match theire thec capabilitys.china can be easily supplied my the russian (weapons)if china has the cash,russia will sell.on of the biggest adventeges of china is theire number of soldiers(canon fodders)they can easyly recruit 200 million soldiers.but I dabut that they will do so,they will lose WAYYYYY to much money(if you will notice,most of goods are made in china/tiwan/japen)

[Red Cell]

Yeah right, because Russia wants to sell arms to it's potentially greatest enemy - China. *sigh*

[MajKnuckles]

China makes everything for us, we are a huge profit for them so they need to stay in check.. seriously though any war being fought today would involve the US, maybe it'll be diplomatic at first but our military might would surely follow soon. China needs to do just what they are doing, keep advancing and building our products for cheap, there is no reward for them starting a war.

Btw: If they go to war it'll be to reclaim Taiwan, good luck as the US would surely intervene.. we're already selling our weapons to Taiwan so assistance would also surely follow.

[Comco]

Originally posted by MajKnuckles
.. seriously though any war being fought today would involve the US...

So...You actually READ the news right??