Scenery Editor update

[2005]

seems like a lot of hassle. I need to learn MS anyway i don't know if the information will be saved in a .3ds

[Miss O]

As nice as it is that the people using 3D Studio Max are finding ways to work with the program, I just want to point out for those reading (or "lurking", but that would show my age!) along through this topic that $3,000 software is NOT required in order to jump into the 3d designing fray.

Unless you already are familiar with designing in 3d, though, your learning curve will be steep no matter what program you use. If you really want to design in 3d, you'll learn how, and probably adapt yourself through several pieces of commercially available free and purchased software before finding one you really connect with. Since every title is geared toward a different market (mine is architectural and mechanical pieces, for instance), they all have specialties which will make things easier or harder to do. That being said, if you can afford $30 for Milkshape, then go for it. You'll learn something that you can use perfectly well to do basic models.

And that's me, soapboxing again. :D

[Guybrush_47]

2005 - it's no hassel at all. It's just standard bitmap texturing. My texture atm is a 512x512, it has a metal texture a roof, interrior ceiling, exterior wall, interrior wall, wooden beam and window frame texture all on one.

Sure you won't get the huge amount of detail if you use 7 512x512 textures, but rct3 isn't a fps.

MissO - There are many 3d programs out there, milkshape imo is probably the easiest (along with gmax). But imo Milkshape is horrible. 3ds, although expensive.... :confused: is probably the best game developer 3d program to date. The flexibility, tools and interface are top notch and i strongly recommend people to at least try out gmax (which is a simplier version and free of 3ds). Then if they like it they may find ways of getting 3ds.

[Potter]

Peeps can always use GMax ( as it is easier and free) and export the model as MD2 or MD3. Then use milkshape to import it and then, export it in the required 3DS format.

Then they can use Biturn to convert it to ASE to use it with jonwil importer.

Too much steps :( But worth the process. :D

[Guybrush_47]

Espically considering 3ds uses only 1 step. Export as ASE :D

[Potter]

Guybrush_47,

Please do not mistake me..... no offense....:bulb:

But, what Miss O is talking about is not "what 3d modeller is the best one", but "what everyone can afford to start 3d modelling"...

[Guybrush_47]

I understand that perfectly, which is why gmax imo is probably the better free program, only hassel would be to export/import files.

Imo, Milkshape is actually harder to learn that Gmax, because of it's poor interface.

There are also other ways of getting 3ds, for instance as a student you get a large chunk of it off for free (in the uk anyhow not sure about the us).

[Potter]

Agreed...

Truce declared :heart:

[Guybrush_47]

lol, hugs all round!!

[2005]

GMAX dosn't save files or at least if you can convert them its not a great way of doing that. If you could everyone would be using GMAX.

[Guybrush_47]

Peeps can always use GMax ( as it is easier and free) and export the model as MD2 or MD3. Then use milkshape to import it and then, export it in the required 3DS format.

[Potter]

The idea of using gMax with MilkShape for modding is not something new. People have been doing it for Unreal and other games...

The link I can get hold of immediately is :

http://www.davidhsmith.net/Gmax_to_UnrealEd.htm

[2005]

ok maybe i'll take a look at max. But i don't know if i can run it (every program ever made now it seems wants to connect back to the internet for registration or a dubious 'download manager' all the time and at university the proxy dosn't allow it).


I'm going to work on supports i was working on before i think they could be a simple but usful addition to the game although not being able to change the colours is really anoying (if only rct3 let you rotate objects in any axis in game too!).

[Guybrush_47]

This is a pretty important question, as it will probably determine whether or not i remake all of my existing models.

Are we ever going to be able to have collision detection? The reason i ask this is because the interior so far looks terrible. The reason it looks so bad is because there is no detail at all.

Now there are 2 possible ways i could combat this:

1. Remake all the models so far by adding in both interior and exterior detailing to the model.

2. Make an exterior and an interior wall, whereby the walls would be placed adjacent to one another. The only problem with this is that i'd have to fiddle about with the windows and redo a bit.

The other problem is that the framerate is terrible. This is mainly because the fence ontop of the walls. If i removed this, and waited for a transparent texture, it would be far better in terms of fps.

As far as texturing goes, i am using 1 texture so far, this will be used for more or less all of the walls, it has in total 9 texture spaces so far, and could have another 3-4.

Also, have we worked out how to add new paths yet?

[2005]

This is a pretty important question, as it will probably determine whether or not i remake all of my existing models.

The question below or my post above about colours?


The other problem is that the framerate is terrible. This is mainly because the fence ontop of the walls. If i removed this, and waited for a transparent texture, it would be far better in terms of fps.

I've posted this several times.

You are obviosuly good at 3d modelling (actually extremely good) but maybe you didn't think enough about the polygon count. its something you should think about all the time.

For example, the supports i made, i spent ages testing out hexagon and octagon shapes (obviously they aren't cylinders) and went for 8 sides, becasue 6 was noticeable, but 8 didn't affect (won't) the frame rate enough to worry about. 10 was possible but the extra detail wouldn't be noticed 95% of the time so it was a bit wasteful.

This is inviting critisism of my 3d models i know especially as you are so much better at this, but i think, although excellent, your model of the hut - especially the dome shapes - is far too detailed to be viable for the game. The dome shapes they should have maybe 8-10 sections in game, now (a guess) would be around 25 at least.


Partlu the reason i stil use anim8or is becasue anything more detailed than anim8or can handle is probably far too detailed for the game.

[Guybrush_47]

The dome is fine. Split up the dome into individual tiles, each tile would be the equilivant to 25 polys. The actual dome is around 1700 i think in polys. it's in a 9x9 grid, you work out the maths :P
Which is good news, as i'll be adding in more detail. Adding in interior beams to split up the walls and adding a few more windows.

So thats not a problem. It's the walls, and thats because of the fence. All the models were meant to be tests. But considering the amount i did, i'm not too sure whether or not i want to start over. But i think it's my only feasible option. Which isn't much of a problem, it will be alot quicker in the long run.

The important question was referring too the collision detection. As we all have to really think about it, incase we find a way of including it.

For reference, i'm going to limit myself to 250polys per tile. That should be about right, i'm not sure how the engine renders each face, whether it renders the visable faces, or just renders them all. Either way, i've made my tough decision, and this time i'll be building the interior first and finishing off on the exterior.

Btw, for paths. I'm going to experiment on pathways for a day or two. I want to figure out if we can have 'pathed areas' that way we could make spiral staircases for example. I'm wondering, how the engine would read a surface as walkable... I'm guessing, as we don't have the collision detection, we might not be able to do this yet? But it's worth a shot.

I'm pretty sure Miss O has a walkable path?

[2005]

when you use this program its actually quite quick to use. I made this from scratch - including remaking all the models - in less than 40 mins.

http://img157.echo.cx/img157/2199/shot00720lz.jpg

[Guybrush_47]

I've decided to start experimenting, so i'm going to figure out as best as i can what each flag and unknown does. This may take some time, but i'm going to recrod each one in a visual database so you guys can see what i'm doing. For documentation and for others to help me out.

[2005]

anything i find out, i will of course post but right now the flags do nothing for large objects which i'm making (except for one). Obviosuly they do something, but its probably to do with walls, paths, lights all that stuff that i don't make.

But if i find something interesting, it gets posted here.

http://img179.echo.cx/img179/6636/shot00737ru.jpg

[Miss O]

Originally posted by Guybrush_47
I'm pretty sure Miss O has a walkable path?
I don't have a walkable path, actually. What you could see in those pieces is my quay piece lowered one level to ground level OVER a path. Ironically, it was actually a happy side effect of making the quay, I didn't plan for it to work that way.

In TurboCAD I set my sizes for EXACTLY 4x4x3 (in inches), and every item I've made thus far has fit not only between the squares perfectly in MS, but also right on the grid lines in the game, so I'm pretty happy. The quay piece has legs underneath it so it would look as though floating on the water, and it's 1" high.

I have plans this weekend to make stepping stones for a path, but I'm not sure how that's going to work. I think ultimately it just becomes a bit of a path "overlay" not really a new path, but if we get to design new paths, I'm cool with that!

[marnetmar]

Guybrush - Big Thanks for the info about the flip-flopping textures :up: :up: I'm still having issues with a couple of props I'm working on, but I did manage to get a couple others worked out.

2005 - That's a good start you have on the supports, just keep at it, don't get discouraged when things don't work or look like you want them, just keep trying.

Miss O - I made a simple flat panel the other day for a path & the size was a little off, but it laid perfectly flat on the ground. I believe there's some kind of flag setting to make it work properly though. I laid several of them out in the Sandbox & the peeps wouldn't go near them, they were the only "paths" available, except for the main entrance path. Hopefully someone will get that figured out soon, I think custom paths would be a great addition.

[jonwil]

Paths (as in the kind that go flat on the ground) use different logic.
No idea what flag settings the 3D paths use.

Ok, I have an idea to help solve some of the issues.
I will take existing RCT3l scenery item requests from people here (with requests required to be in by this weekend and a limit on how many requests I will fullfill) and then dump all the flags and settings that object has set on it.
Hopefully this will help get some objects to work right.

[marnetmar]

That would be FANTASTIC Jonwil, Thank You Very Much :up: :up: :up:

I'm sure there are others that people will think of, but here's a couple off the top of my head.

1)The flag settings for the park benches, so we can get the peeps to use custom made chairs, benches, etc.

2)Paths of any kind for custom made paths.

[JCat]

Same here, basically what Marnetmar said -- bench interaction, and if there's any way to figure out how to replace walking paths... that would be #1! Thanks, Jonwil!

[jonwil]

ok, here are some settings:
Flags are numbered from 1 on the top row to 8 then 9 on the next row and so on.

The skull litter bin has the following relavent settings:
Position = 0,0,0
Size = 4,1,4
Scenery Type = Litter Bin
Flags 13, 14, 33, 34 and 40 are on. All other flags are off.
Unknown 1 is set to Unknown 1
Unknown 2 is set to Unknown 3
Size in squares is set to 1,1
Size Flag is "Path Edge (inner)
Extra Parameters is "Litter Bin"
Unknown 3,4,5,6 are all 0
Unknown 7,8,9 are all 1

Next up, I will do a bench.

Paths are handled by a totally different bit of the game and I doubt that you can make normall scenery that would act like a path

Keep the requests comming guys, there is a limit but you havent reached it yet :)

[marnetmar]

Thank you so much Jonwil :up: :up: :up:

[jonwil]

Ok, wild west park bench settings:
Position = 0,0,0
Flags 1, 13, 14, 33, 34, 37 and 40 are on. All others are off.
Unknown 1 is set to Unknown 1
Unknown 2 is set to Unknown 3
Type is set to "bench"
Supports Type is set to "none"
Size = 4,2,4
Size in squares is set to 1,1
Size Flag is "Path Edge (inner)
Extra parameters is "Bench"
Unknown 3,4,5,6 are all 0
Unknown 7 is 2
Unknown 8 is 3
Unknown 9 is 1

Anyhow, thats settings for a bench and litter bin.
If they still dont work, that means something else is stopping them from working

[Guybrush_47]

I wonder what all the unknowns are all about.

Could i have: Snake Path Lamp, Golden Path Lamp and Park Street Lamp. I'm guessing one of the unknowns will tell the engine what light effect to use for the light.

Btw, Jonwil how are you able to look at the files? Is it complicated or can we all do it? If it's complicated then, i suggest what we do is look at 3 settings for each type of object. That way we can contrast and compare, and have a better idea what does what.

If i knew how to do it, i would export each object and look at all the settings and document them for everyone. So if theres any chance that i could, please PM me.

p.s. just noticed the size... thats strange. 4,2,4?

p.p.s np marnetmar, took me a while to figure out what was happening but i'm glad we've sorted it out :)

[EDIT]

The things both settings have in common are:

Unknown 3,4,5,6 = 0
Unknown 9 = 1
Flags = 13,14,33,34,40

Also noticed. The Size, refers to the tile, the tile being 4x4x4. A Bench that is tiny, only takes up 1, however the bench is longer and takes up 2. Presumably a hedge would be 4x4x4. What i don't understand is why z = 4. Thats height, perhaps the makers thought it would be easier if they set all objects to z = 4.

Then again, the y axis in RCT3 vertical.

Ok, i just copied all of the bench settings set from the wild west... and it works. More interesting... we have collision detection on! I'll try one of my walls with the above settings on. I've got a sneaking suspicion that it's Unknown 9 = 1 myself. 1, tends to be yes, 2 normally is no. Which makes me think that it would be Unknown 9.

Hmm, I've set

Unknown 9 = 1 - no effect
Unknown 6 = 0 - collision detection
Unknown 5 = 0 - no effect
Unknown 4 = 0 - no effect
Unknown 3 = 0 - no effect
flag 13 = no effect
flag 14 = no effect
flag 33 = collision detection
flag 34 = no effect
flag 40 = no effect

This works. So check flag 33, and set Unknown 6 to 0. All other flags can be turned off, and Unknowns can be set to normal, i.e. Unknown 5 = 5.

The only bug i've spotted however, is that you can still overlap the same object. Normally, when you place an object it won't let you overlap it. However, you can with the above settings. None of the settings above alter that, so it must be another somewhere. I'll keep checking.

[jonwil]

Do lamps use particle effects for the light?
If so, thats part of the animation settings.
Will see about getting some more settings later.

[Guybrush_47]

Some lamps do. Some lamps don't.

The street light for example doesn't. But the Sci-Fi ones do.

[2005]

Originally posted by marnetmar
Guybrush - Big Thanks for the info about the flip-flopping textures :up: :up: I'm still having issues with a couple of props I'm working on, but I did manage to get a couple others worked out.

2005 - That's a good start you have on the supports, just keep at it, don't get discouraged when things don't work or look like you want them, just keep trying.

Miss O - I made a simple flat panel the other day for a path & the size was a little off, but it laid perfectly flat on the ground. I believe there's some kind of flag setting to make it work properly though. I laid several of them out in the Sandbox & the peeps wouldn't go near them, they were the only "paths" available, except for the main entrance path. Hopefully someone will get that figured out soon, I think custom paths would be a great addition.


were you already working on some supports? someone in another thread implied you were but i haven't seen any screens that i can remember.

[Guybrush_47]

Got it :)

If you want collision on select the following:

Size = X=4 Y=4 Z=4 (those will change determing on your object) - EDIT (Now not sure this is needed)
Unknown 6 = 0
Unknown 8 = 3
Flag 33 = ticked

This will enable the user, not to be able to place it on any other objects and will stop the user from duplicating the object over and over again on the same square.

'phew'

[DrMontigo]

Originally posted by Guybrush_47
Got it :)

If you want collision on select the following:

Size = X=4 Y=4 Z=4 (those will change determing on your object)
Unknown 6 = 0
Unknown 8 = 3
Flag 33 = ticked

This will enable the user, not to be able to place it on any other objects and will stop the user from duplicating the object over and over again on the same square.

'phew'

Now there needs to be a tick box that does that for you...

[Guybrush_47]

For those of you that want to start the process of making new walls etc, but want a wall template. Give me a PM, and i'll send the files through email. I'm creating the basic walls, bench, bin, and light sizes.

I'm gradually learning what each flag, unknown does. But it's a long process of trial and error.

Jonwil would be extremely useful if you provided us with some more examples. What i find strange, is that you can add Scenery Type 'path' that must mean adding pathways is possible.

Something that might interest 2005, is that it appears that you can automatically add new supports. (they are added onto the ride i suppose) We'll have to experiment with that to try and get them working properly.

[2005]

you can new supports to objects you mean?

I'd think that adding supports to coasters might be more difficult, but maybe i'm wrong.............

[Guybrush_47]

Well the options:Support Middle, Support Top, Support Bottom, Support Bottom Extra, Support Girder and Support Cap are all avaible in the Editor. It's just working out which flags need turning on.

There doesn't seem to be anyway of changing the supports. However... Soaked may provide that option. I think the above is referring to the pathways. Though again i'm not sure.

[JCat]

Originally posted by 2005
were you already working on some supports? someone in another thread implied you were but i haven't seen any screens that i can remember.

I don't think he is - he's involved with our dark ride expansion, no supports.

[Guybrush_47]

Btw, no problem for helping you all out lol.

I'll hide my findings next time, and amaze the rct world when i release my jurassic theme with built in shops and new ride entrances and exits and pathways.

[gdude335]

noob question

Just wondering, how do you edit the ase file???
edit: people said that you had to remove some code from the ase file to not get the error that i get and i do not know how to do that

[Guybrush_47]

In what way do you want to change it?

Do you want to change the 3d model?

Or do you want to change the RCT details?

[2005]

you can edit the .ase with notepad


}
*GEOMOBJECT {
*NODE_NAME "root"
*NODE_TM {
*NODE_NAME "root"
*INHERIT_POS 0 0 0
*INHERIT_ROT 0 0 0
*INHERIT_SCL 0 0 0
*TM_ROW0 1.000 0.000 0.000
*TM_ROW1 0.000 1.000 0.000
*TM_ROW2 0.000 0.000 1.000
*TM_ROW3 0.000 0.000 0.000
*TM_POS 0.000 0.000 0.000
*TM_ROTAXIS 1.000 0.000 0.000
*TM_ROTANGLE 0.000
*TM_SCALE 1.000 1.000 1.000
*TM_SCALEAXIS 1.000 0.000 0.000
*TM_SCALEAXISANG 0.000
}


or similar - its at the begining of the file...........

[Guybrush_47]

Ok found something new out:

Unknown 7: refers to when you use shift to raise objects. With this set to 0, when you click shift it just stays at ground level. To make it automatically raise up onto the wall above it, you must put in the following settings:

1/3 wall = 1
2/3 wall = 2
full wall = (not sure 3,4,5 isn't working... might be my model... but i don't think so, can someone try 3 please.)

[2005]

Originally posted by Guybrush_47
Btw, no problem for helping you all out lol.

I'll hide my findings next time, and amaze the rct world when i release my jurassic theme with built in shops and new ride entrances and exits and pathways.


I think just now they aren't many people making objects.

[JCat]

Originally posted by Guybrush_47
Btw, no problem for helping you all out lol.

I'll hide my findings next time......

No, you can't - you mustn't! :haha:

That theme pack is going to be worth the wait.

[Guybrush_47]

Aye, but while i'm trying to work out what all the features do, your all busy modelling :P

Believe me you have no idea how frustrating this can be. This shift click wall bussiness has got me trully stumped. You know your walls pumper you made, do you have to manually move them above one another if you want to make say a 9high wall.

Or can you press shift left click, to automatically create them?

[JCat]

Actually, when I found new discoveries, I shared them (as did others), if you look way back at a number of topics, and right now, I'm not modeling, I'm beta testing Soaked -- modeling is pretty much done.

As for my walls, yes, I have to raise them manually. They don't make jumps in equal height to the wall size, but they interlock evenly.

[Guybrush_47]

Ah i see, so you didn't follow the standard RCT3 wall sizes?

Still now wanting to work, i don't understand, height 1/3 and 1/2 works fine, but full acts like 1/2. I've tried numbers 3,4,5,6 and they all don't work.

[RCT4me]

I'm wondering... How will LOD be done? The ovl file stores muiltiple models?

And guys, be sure to optimize your objects (remove unescessary faces. The developers never bothered to even try to do this, which is part of the framerate problem)

[JCat]

Another interesting thing. I made a wall of portraits (paintings along a hall type thing). On one side are the portraits, while the other side is solid.

If you move this object in and out of the grid (you know how you select if walls are inside our outside the grid as with that blue ghost placement marker?). Anyway, when move in slightly inward, the paintings show, when I nudge it outside, the wall is solid... Kind of an accidental dual purpose thing.. LOL

[Guybrush_47]

Which is the reason why i'm starting over on all of my models. I want to maximise the performance as much as possible, and that means redesign.

LOD?

Pumper, aye thats the basic idea of my interior/exterior walls. That the wall you place will have exterior on one side and interior on the other. This will reduce the fps, as it renders only 1 wall, and makes far more efficient buildings. Not only that, but you could place a path on either the interior or exterior side, whereas before you wouldn't of been able to.

[JCat]

Originally posted by Guybrush_47
Ah i see, so you didn't follow the standard RCT3 wall sizes?



No, it's a standard wall size - otherwise it wouldn't be locking in to place as you can see from the older shots of my rock wall/archs.

[Guybrush_47]

Well can you do me a favour then.

Did you build a 1/3 1/2 and 1 wall height, or just 1 wall height?

[JCat]

Don't have any of the 1/3 and 2/3 heights - only standard, an extended height wall (twice as high) and one that's twice as high and long.

[Guybrush_47]

Ah i see. Well a standard 1 wall height, should be unknown 7 = 3.

1/3 = 1
2/3 = 2
i'm pretty sure 1 = 3. But mines not working... could you just give a quick test? Btw, is your collision working properly now?

[2005]

Originally posted by Guybrush_47
Aye, but while i'm trying to work out what all the features do, your all busy modelling :P

Believe me you have no idea how frustrating this can be. This shift click wall bussiness has got me trully stumped. You know your walls pumper you made, do you have to manually move them above one another if you want to make say a 9high wall.

Or can you press shift left click, to automatically create them?


You discovered our secret plan now :)

About the left shift, aren't you already doing that??? That really stood out when i was reading the posts becasue knowing you can use the left shift for any height is essential to make my support models work.



This will reduce the fps

Did you mean increase????? I really hope so lol

[Bitter Jeweler]

Originally posted by Guybrush_47
Btw, no problem for helping you all out lol.

I'll hide my findings next time, and amaze the rct world when i release my jurassic theme with built in shops and new ride entrances and exits and pathways.

Don't hide it!
I am already amazed at what you have done and am anticipating the Themepack you are going to release. The pics you have shown are awesome.

[JCat]

I'm not using collision detection at the moment, because there's a coaste project involved at the same time, and I can't have the collision on or some of the effects will get screwed. Once the theme pack is released, then well optimize and final stuff. Actually, I like the collision off.

Yes, I'll try that unknown 7 option now - give me a few and I'll be right back.

[Guybrush_47]

2005, what i can do atm is this:

1. Collision detection is fully working. Not able to place on other objects.
2. Able to place the item only once in a slot. I.E. You can't put down duplicates of the same object on one tile.
3. Can use Shift left click on '1/3 and 2/3 height walls' but not a 'full height wall'
4. Able to place benches that people are supposed to sit on.
5. Able to put down bins that people are supposed to throw litter in.

[2005]

i think he was joking, at least i hope so.

No one i hope is working on the editor for personal credit. But the people who are making objects now will probably be the people who make some of the better models becasue they understand better how it all works. Learing the editor now would be a bit diffucult looking at all the posts (even though it isn't really)

[Guybrush_47]

Getting the object ingame is very easy. Getting it to work properly and for the people to interact with it, is very, very hard.

I'll have to ask Jonwil for a full height wall settings. As i'm getting knowhere atm.

The fps will be reduced. As you won't have to put down anywhere near as many walls to make a nice space for inside the building.

P.S. Yes i was joking :P

[2005]

to be being able to not have collision detection is better, but i can see why for walls you need it.

Really i still hope jonwil will figure out multi or transparent textures........he still posts here, i don't know how complicated it is, but hopefully he will find some time to work on it.

[JCat]

GuyB -

Changed the Unknown 7 = 3 and reinstalled.

No change in wall shift. The full height, blue ghost wall moves in 1/3 wall size increments as I shift up. I compared it to a wall I didn't change, and they both do the same thing.

[Guybrush_47]

I'll use collision detection for all my objects tbh. I don't like adding in stuff that conflicts with the games parameters.

(i.e. all the objects in rct3 have collision detection on).

But i can see why some people won't. Those eyes for one, wouldn't be anywhere near as good if you couldn't add them right in the ride/path.

Hmm strange that. The settings i'm using for 1 height wall atm are:

Flag 33

Unknown 1 = 1
Unknown 2 = 2
Unknown 3,4,5,6,9 = 0
Unknown 7,8 = 3

Like i said, i think i'll wait for Jonwil to export the settings, i'm obviousally missing something here. Perhaps another flag needs ticking...

[2005]

thats weird because its definatly possible in game.

I can see why adding walls is useful for themes but i just prefer making large scale objects. But it isn't a bad thing, theres more variation in objects released :)

[Guybrush_47]

Agreed there, personally i think it's great that we've all taken different themes. It would be pretty wasted if we kept doing the same/similiar objects.

[2005]

got so many ideas for large objects

[Guybrush_47]

Having a problem with the benches now. I've tried to create a block that is the right dimensions for someone to sit on. However, they aren't sitting on it. No shocks there, i've got exactly the same settings as the wagon wheel jonwil put up earlier.

There are 2 things that could be gonig wrong.

1: We don't have the tools to make a surface, sittable/walkable.
2: We have to get the EXACT dimensions for the people to sit on the bench.

I've done my best to try and recreate the exact size.

Now onto the bins.

[2005]

this is just a guess, but i doubt the peeps have that advanced collision detection each. The reason they aren't sitting on it, is probably more becasue of a flag than becasue it isn't actually big enough.

[Guybrush_47]

It's not the flags, got nothing to do with that, as the flags are copied exactly from an existing bench in rct3.

[2005]

well maybe theres another setting we don't know about yet.

I just don't see the physical size would make any difference - the peeps would probably sit in mid air if you could find the right settings and make an invisble bench :)

[Guybrush_47]

I'm not sure it would work like that. Alot of games i know use a pathnoding system or material system. Whereby in the 3d editor they have a pluggin whereby they can select materials from a list.

What i really want though, is for Jonwil to export another bench, the wooden one, and 2 1 height walls. You can't really judge what is right from 1 object setting, you need 2/3 and compare.

At the momment i'm guessing, logical guessing... but still guessing.

Jonwil, if you'd be so kind to get me these 3 object settings:

- Marble Bench - Generic Theme
- Full Height Brick Wall - Generic Theme
- Wall Base With Vines - Spooky Theme

[2005]

yeah but a plugin is nothing like what we got.

[Miss O]

Didn't someone say they got benches working? I tried it with mine, but I learned quickly that the way the bench faced was messed up. Changing it on its axis made a difference, and now it seems to get placed as other benches would.

As for height, if there is a setting to make it sitable, I have't found it, mine isn't working, and I'm pretty sure the height is right, because I tested it without collision detection in order to make sure the seat height was okay. I've done the settings twice just to make sure I wasn't smoking something illegal when trying the first time (I don't do that, so don't get your hopes up).

So if anyone's got a working bench, please let us know. As for litter bin, I was going to make one, but couldn't figure out what would theoretically go with my Asian theme. Obviously a bamboo round thing would go, but that's really boring.

I've worked all day getting my bench into the middle of the square and getting my fence to work, which it now does, quite brilliantly, I might add. It can create a perfect square so that the end posts match up exactly. Now if I could texture it more accurately, I'd be golden.

Anyone got MS tips for texturing? :D

A side note, 2005, could you be a leeeetle more bent about what you perceive as a glass half empty? Sheesh.

[2005]

not sure what that meant but i think your saying i'm being negative.............

Maybe maybe the bench has to be at the right vertical height to work?

I don't know, but most games, where the graphic visibly is, and where you tell the game the graphic is, is two different things.............

[Guybrush_47]

You have to rotate the bench round, i have no idea why they did that. Who knows, but it confused me for a while :)

I haven't got it sitable, no one has, i said in theory it should work... but it doesn't :P

I think i have the vertical height right. Mine is 0.5, but we could be a fraction out and we wouldn't have a clue.

I'm really puzzled why no developers/atari moderators have come on this thread to offer some advise. They really don't like giving modding any support do they :-/

Which imo is terrible, only EA are worse, because they give tools, but are so buggy it crashes your computer :P

Like i said, hopefully Jonwil will give us the settings for the objects i asked for on the top of the page, i'm thinking it could help us.

[2005]

frontier could have given some hints, even if unofficially..........whats really worrying is that with soaked they might put a stop to all this.........

[Miss O]

Actually, all the benches have slightly varying seat heights. While there may be some setting that marks the seat, I can't imagine it's very accurate, since on some benches the peeps sit more -in- it than -on- it.

[Guybrush_47]

I hope not, that would be a big stab in the back for all of us who are dedicated rct followers. I'm sure they won't, infact 100% sure they won't... guess i'm used to Bioware and Obsidian who reguarly talk with the custom crew to develop the game further.

Miss O, aye i noticed that too, the easiest thing imo is trying to recreate the marble bench. That seems flat, and i think is 0.5 high, i think there maybe 2 options, a 'bench' option and a 'seat' option. This is just theory, but it would make a bit more sense.

[Potter]

Originally posted by Pumper

Klinn: Do you have more then one PC to do a test? Marnetmar and I had some slight weirdness. We both have the same theme files in our directories, but for some reason, when I save the coaster in progress utilizing the new themes on my end, then send him over the saved sandbox, it crashes his system during a load. We're thinking it may be a particular object that's not agreeing with his system. I also saved the theming alone in the scenery manager (in RCT3) and the coaster separate - and send him both files that way, and the same problem occurred. For a test, he threw a bunch of objects down and the coaster on his side, saved the sandbox, sent it back to me, and it loaded up fine. It's not his system, because I send the save to another friend of ours, and she had the same crash.


If you need a guinea pig to do a quick test run of your objects, I'd be more then happy to test them out.

Pumper and Marnetmar,
Is the path in which RCT3 is installed in your systems different? I think the full path of the OVL files are stored in the Theme files ( not sure, though). So, there is a possibility that things will go wrong if RCT3 is installed in different paths.

[jonwil]

The path stored in the ovl file is relative to the RCT3 folder.

So if the scenery is ic c:\program files\atari\rct3\style\themed\test\testovl\testovl.common.ovl
then what gets stored in the ovl file is style\themed\test\testovl\testovl

[marnetmar]

Originally posted by Potter
Pumper and Marnetmar,
Is the path in which RCT3 is installed in your systems different? I think the full path of the OVL files are stored in the Theme files ( not sure, though). So, there is a possibility that things will go wrong if RCT3 is installed in different paths.

Yes Potter, we both have everything in the same places, as well as our other tester. We're thinking it might be one prop in particular, which may or may not be the problem. We haven't had the chance to retest, since we've both added to our themes, but once we've got everything complete, we plan on trying it again to figure it out. Thanks for the offer, we'll keep you in mind ;) :up:

[marnetmar]

Originally posted by Miss O
Anyone got MS tips for texturing? :D


I've had some success with the texturing in MS & some major failures lol For 1 prop I made, which was just using 2 basic colors for the textures, the texture was 256x256 1 color on top, other on bottom. Then I mapped all the textures in MS, then converted into an ase file with Biturn. Here's the weird part, the colors were backwards in the game after using Jonwils program to make the ovl files. The fix?? I simply copied the texture file & rotated it 180 degrees & used that texture when adding it for the ovl file & everything worked perfectly.
Now I can't guarantee this will work all the time, as I've tried it with other more complex mapping, only to have a blurry mess lol But, it might/should work for some basic texturing applications.

[Miss O]

I had luck with my first wall, I managed to get all the textures mapped correctly to the front. Feeling confident, then, I raced out and tried the second of my walls from the file. No matter how I turn that darned texture, it never aligns once it gets in the game. I've been rotating it 90 degrees at a time, and still nothing. It's extremely frustrating, not to mention that somehow I'm off by a hair in the alignment of the two walls side by side.

I'm not there yet, but when I get there, look out.

[Twister2489]

I made a new object file and installed and so on..but I got an error and RCT3 wont even start. I deleted the object and the game worked fine, but when I installed the object again, I got the same error. Has this happened to anyone else?

Is it just the .ASE file? Should I try making a new version, or would that be wasting my time?

[marnetmar]

Originally posted by Twister2489
I made a new object file and installed and so on..but I got an error and RCT3 wont even start. I deleted the object and the game worked fine, but when I installed the object again, I got the same error. Has this happened to anyone else?

Is it just the .ASE file? Should I try making a new version, or would that be wasting my time?


I haven't had that happen Twister, you might try making another ase file & see if it happens again.

[speile]

I made a new object file and installed and so on..but I got an error and RCT3 wont even start. I deleted the object and the game worked fine, but when I installed the object again, I got the same error. Has this happened to anyone else?

It happend to me, and now no custom objects will work in rct3, the game instantly crashes... and to think that i nearly worked out texture mapping in rct3, it ******* me off

[Guybrush_47]

Twister: Yes the error happens to me too, the .ase file is corrupt. Simpy re-export it from your 3d program, and redo the importing process in the editor, it should then work fine.

Miss O: I also had a few problems with the alligning. What you must remember with alligning is that you need to make it slightly smaller in the texture window in the 3d editor. You can't be 100% accurate as the background of the texture will appear as very thin lines around your object. So you have to reduce the size of your uvw mapping by a small amount, it should then tile fine with no errors. This happened to me in another game, so don't worry :)

Speile: Keep at it, i've been there, had the frustrationg, broken half my keyboard in the process. It can be a bit niggly at times, but if it keeps crashing there are 2 things you can try.

1. Re-export the .ase file.
2. Re-do the settings in jonwils editor.

I think the error i had was something like "Object blah blah is out of position then some mathematical code appears."

P.S. Keep backing up your work.

[2005]

some of the support objects are here can you take a look see if there are any obvious problems?

inverted supports red (http://www.sfx.org.uk/supports.zip)

(42kb)


This is a very rough version and nowhere near what i expect to eventually release. its not supposed to be a proper release, i don't recommended d/l it to use in parks, but if you just want to take a look then delete them.........

http://img167.echo.cx/img167/3376/shot00736fi.jpg

http://img193.echo.cx/img193/5654/shot00720ba.jpg

[WalkingSnake]

Originally posted by 2005
some of the support objects are here can you take a look see if there are any obvious problems?

inverted supports red (http://www.sfx.org.uk/supports.zip)

(42kb)


This is a very rough version and nowhere near what i expect to eventually release. its not supposed to be a proper release, i don't recommended d/l it to use in parks, but if you just want to take a look then delete them.........


Still need alot of work. Right now they look like they were added in in Paint or something.

[2005]

could you be more specific? textures?


the .jpg makes them look worse than they are (more blocky)

EDIT: never mind it is textures.
I don't understand this shading - all texture information is lost in conversions isn't it? its just the qualitly of the texture used....

I could use someone elses tetures (there are plenty of free textures on the internet your allowed to use).

textures aren't the most important thing now anyway, becasue i need to make the rct3 colours somehow.

[Bitter Jeweler]

Ok, I am trying to do create a block, just to try to figure this out.
I got past the (RCTimporter encountered a problem and needs to close) error, by sifting thru 100's of posts to find out what needs to be deleted from the ASE file. Great.

Now I get the multiple objects error.
I am using 3Dmax V3
I created a simple box.

Here is the ASE file contents:
*3DSMAX_ASCIIEXPORT 200
*COMMENT "AsciiExport Version 2.00 - Sun Apr 24 13:51:08 2005"
*SCENE {
*SCENE_FILENAME ""
*SCENE_FIRSTFRAME 0
*SCENE_LASTFRAME 100
*SCENE_FRAMESPEED 30
*SCENE_TICKSPERFRAME 160
*SCENE_BACKGROUND_STATIC 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000
*SCENE_AMBIENT_STATIC 0.0431 0.0431 0.0431

*MESH {
*TIMEVALUE 0
*MESH_NUMVERTEX 8
*MESH_NUMFACES 12
*MESH_VERTEX_LIST {
*MESH_VERTEX 0 -0.7915 -99.7912 1.6202
*MESH_VERTEX 1 -0.7915 -99.7912 200.3675
*MESH_VERTEX 2 -0.7915 100.6263 1.6202
*MESH_VERTEX 3 -0.7915 100.6263 200.3676
*MESH_VERTEX 4 -9.1423 -99.7912 1.6202
*MESH_VERTEX 5 -9.1423 -99.7912 200.3675
*MESH_VERTEX 6 -9.1423 100.6263 1.6202
*MESH_VERTEX 7 -9.1422 100.6263 200.3676
}
*MESH_FACE_LIST {
*MESH_FACE 0: A: 0 B: 2 C: 3 AB: 1 BC: 1 CA: 0 *MESH_SMOOTHING 2 *MESH_MTLID 1
*MESH_FACE 1: A: 3 B: 1 C: 0 AB: 1 BC: 1 CA: 0 *MESH_SMOOTHING 2 *MESH_MTLID 1
*MESH_FACE 2: A: 4 B: 5 C: 7 AB: 1 BC: 1 CA: 0 *MESH_SMOOTHING 3 *MESH_MTLID 0
*MESH_FACE 3: A: 7 B: 6 C: 4 AB: 1 BC: 1 CA: 0 *MESH_SMOOTHING 3 *MESH_MTLID 0
*MESH_FACE 4: A: 0 B: 1 C: 5 AB: 1 BC: 1 CA: 0 *MESH_SMOOTHING 4 *MESH_MTLID 4
*MESH_FACE 5: A: 5 B: 4 C: 0 AB: 1 BC: 1 CA: 0 *MESH_SMOOTHING 4 *MESH_MTLID 4
*MESH_FACE 6: A: 1 B: 3 C: 7 AB: 1 BC: 1 CA: 0 *MESH_SMOOTHING 5 *MESH_MTLID 3
*MESH_FACE 7: A: 7 B: 5 C: 1 AB: 1 BC: 1 CA: 0 *MESH_SMOOTHING 5 *MESH_MTLID 3
*MESH_FACE 8: A: 3 B: 2 C: 6 AB: 1 BC: 1 CA: 0 *MESH_SMOOTHING 6 *MESH_MTLID 5
*MESH_FACE 9: A: 6 B: 7 C: 3 AB: 1 BC: 1 CA: 0 *MESH_SMOOTHING 6 *MESH_MTLID 5
*MESH_FACE 10: A: 2 B: 0 C: 4 AB: 1 BC: 1 CA: 0 *MESH_SMOOTHING 7 *MESH_MTLID 2
*MESH_FACE 11: A: 4 B: 6 C: 2 AB: 1 BC: 1 CA: 0 *MESH_SMOOTHING 7 *MESH_MTLID 2
}
}
*PROP_MOTIONBLUR 0
*PROP_CASTSHADOW 1
*PROP_RECVSHADOW 1
}


I can't find what I need to change or what i did wrong. I am trying to sift thru the 100's of posts again......

would anybody who knows whats going on be willing to parse thru this thread of nearly 600 posts to extract the pertinant info needed to get going with custom objects. I am trying to do that myself, but I have yet to get past the current error, and since people are using so many different programs I.E Milkshape, 3DMax,Biturn, anim8tor.... it is getting so confusing.

I am following Klinns Tutorial he posted here, but he leaves out the problems, and errors, and just assumes you can figure that out.

So.....anyone care to help me get past this?
David

[Klinn]

I think the problem is that there no texture coordinates listed in the ASE file. SlipperyPenguin was having the same problem when using other 3D apps. When you export as ASE from Max (V6, I'm not sure about V3) make sure the box labelled 'Mapping Coordinates' is checked. Of course, you need to actually have mapping coords for the model you've built, but these are usually automatically generated. There's a little checkbox at the bottom of most object-creation palettes in Max for 'Generate Mapping Coords', so they're done as you build it.

The structure of the ASE is different compared to the typical ones my version of Max generates. Your 'Scene' object encompasses practically the whole file, and my meshes have a preamble section to specify properties. Don't know if that has any bearing on the problem at all, or if the DLL routines JonWil uses to parse the ASE file accommodate these differences. Certainly the lack of texture coords is an issue that has struck before, so that's where I would start when trying to solve the problem.

For reference, here's a sample ASE of mine, with the multitude of verticies and faces edited so you can more clearly see the structure of the file.


*3DSMAX_ASCIIEXPORT 200
*COMMENT "AsciiExport Version 2.00 - Mon Apr 18 18:13:41 2005"
*SCENE {
*SCENE_FILENAME "KLN-ETube01-Smoothed.max"
*SCENE_FIRSTFRAME 0
*SCENE_LASTFRAME 100
*SCENE_FRAMESPEED 30
*SCENE_TICKSPERFRAME 160
*SCENE_BACKGROUND_STATIC 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000
*SCENE_AMBIENT_STATIC 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000
}
*GEOMOBJECT {
*NODE_NAME "Tube02"
*NODE_TM {
*NODE_NAME "Tube02"
*INHERIT_POS 0 0 0
*INHERIT_ROT 0 0 0
*INHERIT_SCL 0 0 0
*TM_ROW0 1.0000 0.0000 0.0000
*TM_ROW1 0.0000 1.0000 0.0000
*TM_ROW2 0.0000 0.0000 1.0000
*TM_ROW3 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000
*TM_POS 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000
*TM_ROTAXIS 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000
*TM_ROTANGLE 0.0000
*TM_SCALE 1.0000 1.0000 1.0000
*TM_SCALEAXIS 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000
*TM_SCALEAXISANG 0.0000
}
*MESH {
*TIMEVALUE 0
*MESH_NUMVERTEX 144
*MESH_NUMFACES 288
*MESH_VERTEX_LIST {
*MESH_VERTEX 0 0.0000 1.1500 -10.0000
*MESH_VERTEX 1 0.0000 1.1500 14.0000
*MESH_VERTEX 2 0.0000 1.3500 14.0000
*MESH_VERTEX 3 0.0000 1.3500 -10.0000
*MESH_VERTEX 4 -0.4949 1.1933 -10.0000
...many, many more vertices...
*MESH_VERTEX 141 0.4949 1.1933 14.0000
*MESH_VERTEX 142 0.4602 1.3903 14.0000
*MESH_VERTEX 143 0.4602 1.3903 -10.0000
}
*MESH_FACE_LIST {
*MESH_FACE 0: A: 0 B: 5 C: 4 AB: 1 BC: 1 CA: 0 *MESH_SMOOTHING 1 *MESH_MTLID 0
*MESH_FACE 1: A: 0 B: 1 C: 5 AB: 1 BC: 1 CA: 0 *MESH_SMOOTHING 1 *MESH_MTLID 0
*MESH_FACE 2: A: 1 B: 6 C: 5 AB: 1 BC: 1 CA: 0 *MESH_SMOOTHING *MESH_MTLID 0
*MESH_FACE 3: A: 1 B: 2 C: 6 AB: 1 BC: 1 CA: 0 *MESH_SMOOTHING *MESH_MTLID 0
*MESH_FACE 4: A: 2 B: 7 C: 6 AB: 1 BC: 1 CA: 0 *MESH_SMOOTHING 1 *MESH_MTLID 0
lots more faces too...

*MESH_FACE 285: A: 142 B: 143 C: 3 AB: 1 BC: 1 CA: 0 *MESH_SMOOTHING 1 *MESH_MTLID 0
*MESH_FACE 286: A: 143 B: 0 C: 3 AB: 1 BC: 1 CA: 0 *MESH_SMOOTHING *MESH_MTLID 0
*MESH_FACE 287: A: 143 B: 140 C: 0 AB: 1 BC: 1 CA: 0 *MESH_SMOOTHING *MESH_MTLID 0
}
*MESH_NUMTVERTEX 144
*MESH_TVERTLIST {
*MESH_TVERT 0 1.0000 1.0000 0.0000
*MESH_TVERT 1 0.2500 1.0000 0.0000
*MESH_TVERT 2 0.5000 1.0000 0.0000
*MESH_TVERT 3 0.7500 1.0000 0.0000
*MESH_TVERT 4 1.0000 0.0278 0.0000
bunches of texture verticies i.e. coordinates

*MESH_TVERT 141 0.2500 0.9722 0.0000
*MESH_TVERT 142 0.5000 0.9722 0.0000
*MESH_TVERT 143 0.7500 0.9722 0.0000
}
*MESH_NUMTVFACES 288
*MESH_TFACELIST {
*MESH_TFACE 0 0 5 4
*MESH_TFACE 1 0 1 5
*MESH_TFACE 2 1 6 5
*MESH_TFACE 3 1 2 6
...zillions of texture faces made from those verticies...
*MESH_TFACE 284 142 3 2
*MESH_TFACE 285 142 143 3
*MESH_TFACE 286 143 0 3
*MESH_TFACE 287 143 140 0
}
*MESH_NUMCVERTEX 0
*MESH_NORMALS {
*MESH_FACENORMAL 0 -0.0872 -0.9962 0.0000
*MESH_VERTEXNORMAL 0 0.0000 -1.0000 0.0000
*MESH_VERTEXNORMAL 5 -0.1736 -0.9848 0.0000
*MESH_VERTEXNORMAL 4 -0.1736 -0.9848 0.0000
*MESH_FACENORMAL 1 -0.0872 -0.9962 0.0000
*MESH_VERTEXNORMAL 0 0.0000 -1.0000 0.0000
*MESH_VERTEXNORMAL 1 0.0000 -1.0000 0.0000
*MESH_VERTEXNORMAL 5 -0.1736 -0.9848 0.0000
*MESH_FACENORMAL 2 0.0000 0.0000 1.0000
*MESH_VERTEXNORMAL 1 0.0000 0.0000 1.0000
*MESH_VERTEXNORMAL 6 0.0000 0.0000 1.0000
*MESH_VERTEXNORMAL 5 0.0000 0.0000 1.0000
...many more normals...
*MESH_FACENORMAL 286 0.0000 0.0000 -1.0000
*MESH_VERTEXNORMAL 143 0.0000 0.0000 -1.0000
*MESH_VERTEXNORMAL 0 0.0000 0.0000 -1.0000
*MESH_VERTEXNORMAL 3 0.0000 0.0000 -1.0000
*MESH_FACENORMAL 287 0.0000 0.0000 -1.0000
*MESH_VERTEXNORMAL 143 0.0000 0.0000 -1.0000
*MESH_VERTEXNORMAL 140 0.0000 0.0000 -1.0000
*MESH_VERTEXNORMAL 0 0.0000 0.0000 -1.0000
}
}
*PROP_MOTIONBLUR 0
*PROP_CASTSHADOW 1
*PROP_RECVSHADOW 1
}


Looking at your file again, it is also missing the mesh normals, which I think is required to be in the ASE file for JonWil's Importer. There's also a checkbox for that when exporting the ASE from Max (at least in V6).

(sorry about the wide post, I should have converted the tabs to double spaces)

Edit again: Looking again :) I think the file structure is what's causing your multiple objects problem. Note how in my sampe, the '*GEOMOBJECT {' section encompasses the entire object - verticies, faces, texture coords, normals, etc. Similar sections in your file are standing on their own, so maybe the ASE-reading function JonWil is using is interpreting them as multiple objects.

The best I can suggest is to fiddle with the export settings in Max to see if it will generate an ASE file of a similar structure to the one I included. Worst case - Max has changed how it exported ASE files over the years and V3 won't produce a satisfactory file. :(

[Guybrush_47]

Your using 3ds v3?

I can send you a copy of a wall that runs perfectly well in .3ds form if you like.

Goddamn whens jonwil when you need him :)

[Bitter Jeweler]

Originally posted by Guybrush_47
Your using 3ds v3?

I can send you a copy of a wall that runs perfectly well in .3ds form if you like.

Goddamn whens jonwil when you need him :)

Yup version 3.

I have created a box. Simple. I am just at the begining problems you all faced, but sifting through this thread I never found an answer to what needs to be done to get past the multiple objects error.

I am rather familiar with 3D modelling as well, so i am not a noob in that respesct. Example:
http://www.bitterjewelerfilms.com/Revised.jpg

But in sifting through this thread, I found no concrete thing to do about the multiple objects problem. I find posts that exclaim "I figured It out" but nothing is said what was indeed figured out. Or i missed it. So part of my request is all of you who know whats going on help parse this thread of pertinant info that can be posted somewhere. I am willing to host it, and make the link freely available to all that want to get involved in custom scenery creation, but this thread has become daunting in its size. Klinns tutorial is great except he doesn't deal with the common errors that you all, and myself, have and are or will encounter.

[Guybrush_47]

Well let me tell you my work process.

1. Model the object
2. Split up the object into smaller parts, this is required for the shadowing problem. If you want curved surfaces, leave them. But if you want a wall, then you have to split it up into a few objects, otherwise the ends will automatically smooth over.
3. Texture each object, the uvw unwrap top bottom is the wrong way round, so what i do is flip the texture you make the wrong way up in photoshop. Then use uvw unwrap to allign the texture up. Once textured, go back into photoshop and flip the texture to the right way up. Textures will now appear fine ingame.
4. Attach all the objects back into one model, do not weld any vertices otherwise you'll undo the whole process.
5. Export as .ASE

P.S. Nice model that, for polygon limit, i would stick to around 200 per tile. If you go over the fps rapidly increase. I'm just trying to figure out all the flags and unknowns in the manage scenery part.

I've worked out a few things so far. But it's still very sketchy, i need Jonwil to export a few more settings to start pinpointing whats what.

[Bitter Jeweler]

Klinn,

Ok you helped!
I had to find the pallet for parameters in 3DMax and check generated mapping co-ordinates. I had that check for exporting, but I see it wasn't done in the pallete. Remember i am not familiar with 3DMax, i love Rhino3 thats what use, and its a nurbs modeler, but exports to various object file for use in my rendering program

So now I have my 2 ovl files, and I will continue with your tutorial.

Thanks!

heres the new ASE file, and this time I didn't remove that top section and it worked, so how important was it to remove that?:

*3DSMAX_ASCIIEXPORT 200
*COMMENT "AsciiExport Version 2.00 - Sun Apr 24 15:07:07 2005"
*SCENE {
*SCENE_FILENAME ""
*SCENE_FIRSTFRAME 0
*SCENE_LASTFRAME 100
*SCENE_FRAMESPEED 30
*SCENE_TICKSPERFRAME 160
*SCENE_BACKGROUND_STATIC 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000
*SCENE_AMBIENT_STATIC 0.0431 0.0431 0.0431
}
*GEOMOBJECT {
*NODE_NAME "Box01"
*NODE_TM {
*NODE_NAME "Box01"
*INHERIT_POS 0 0 0
*INHERIT_ROT 0 0 0
*INHERIT_SCL 0 0 0
*TM_ROW0 1.0000 0.0000 0.0000
*TM_ROW1 0.0000 0.0000 1.0000
*TM_ROW2 0.0000 -1.0000 0.0000
*TM_ROW3 0.0000 -0.0000 0.4184
*TM_POS 0.0000 -0.0000 0.4184
*TM_ROTAXIS -1.0000 0.0000 0.0000
*TM_ROTANGLE 1.5708
*TM_SCALE 1.0000 1.0000 1.0000
*TM_SCALEAXIS 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000
*TM_SCALEAXISANG 0.0000
}
*MESH {
*TIMEVALUE 0
*MESH_NUMVERTEX 8
*MESH_NUMFACES 12
*MESH_VERTEX_LIST {
*MESH_VERTEX 0 -100.0000 -0.0000 -99.1632
*MESH_VERTEX 1 100.0000 -0.0000 -99.1632
*MESH_VERTEX 2 -100.0000 0.0000 100.0000
*MESH_VERTEX 3 100.0000 0.0000 100.0000
*MESH_VERTEX 4 -100.0000 11.7155 -99.1632
*MESH_VERTEX 5 100.0000 11.7155 -99.1632
*MESH_VERTEX 6 -100.0000 11.7155 100.0000
*MESH_VERTEX 7 100.0000 11.7155 100.0000
}
*MESH_FACE_LIST {
*MESH_FACE 0: A: 2 B: 0 C: 3 AB: 1 BC: 0 CA: 1 *MESH_SMOOTHING 2 *MESH_MTLID 0
*MESH_FACE 1: A: 1 B: 3 C: 0 AB: 1 BC: 0 CA: 1 *MESH_SMOOTHING 2 *MESH_MTLID 0
*MESH_FACE 2: A: 5 B: 4 C: 7 AB: 1 BC: 0 CA: 1 *MESH_SMOOTHING 3 *MESH_MTLID 1
*MESH_FACE 3: A: 6 B: 7 C: 4 AB: 1 BC: 0 CA: 1 *MESH_SMOOTHING 3 *MESH_MTLID 1
*MESH_FACE 4: A: 1 B: 0 C: 5 AB: 1 BC: 0 CA: 1 *MESH_SMOOTHING 4 *MESH_MTLID 4
*MESH_FACE 5: A: 4 B: 5 C: 0 AB: 1 BC: 0 CA: 1 *MESH_SMOOTHING 4 *MESH_MTLID 4
*MESH_FACE 6: A: 3 B: 1 C: 7 AB: 1 BC: 0 CA: 1 *MESH_SMOOTHING 5 *MESH_MTLID 3
*MESH_FACE 7: A: 5 B: 7 C: 1 AB: 1 BC: 0 CA: 1 *MESH_SMOOTHING 5 *MESH_MTLID 3
*MESH_FACE 8: A: 2 B: 3 C: 6 AB: 1 BC: 0 CA: 1 *MESH_SMOOTHING 6 *MESH_MTLID 5
*MESH_FACE 9: A: 7 B: 6 C: 3 AB: 1 BC: 0 CA: 1 *MESH_SMOOTHING 6 *MESH_MTLID 5
*MESH_FACE 10: A: 0 B: 2 C: 4 AB: 1 BC: 0 CA: 1 *MESH_SMOOTHING 7 *MESH_MTLID 2
*MESH_FACE 11: A: 6 B: 4 C: 2 AB: 1 BC: 0 CA: 1 *MESH_SMOOTHING 7 *MESH_MTLID 2
}
*MESH_NUMTVERTEX 12
*MESH_TVERTLIST {
*MESH_TVERT 0 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000
*MESH_TVERT 1 1.0000 0.0000 0.0000
*MESH_TVERT 2 0.0000 1.0000 0.0000
*MESH_TVERT 3 1.0000 1.0000 0.0000
*MESH_TVERT 4 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000
*MESH_TVERT 5 1.0000 0.0000 0.0000
*MESH_TVERT 6 0.0000 1.0000 0.0000
*MESH_TVERT 7 1.0000 1.0000 0.0000
*MESH_TVERT 8 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000
*MESH_TVERT 9 1.0000 0.0000 0.0000
*MESH_TVERT 10 0.0000 1.0000 0.0000
*MESH_TVERT 11 1.0000 1.0000 0.0000
}
*MESH_NUMTVFACES 12
*MESH_TFACELIST {
*MESH_TFACE 0 10 8 11
*MESH_TFACE 1 9 11 8
*MESH_TFACE 2 8 9 10
*MESH_TFACE 3 11 10 9
*MESH_TFACE 4 5 4 7
*MESH_TFACE 5 6 7 4
*MESH_TFACE 6 1 0 3
*MESH_TFACE 7 2 3 0
*MESH_TFACE 8 5 4 7
*MESH_TFACE 9 6 7 4
*MESH_TFACE 10 1 0 3
*MESH_TFACE 11 2 3 0
}
*MESH_NORMALS {
*MESH_FACENORMAL 0 0.0000 0.0000 1.0000
*MESH_VERTEXNORMAL 2 0.0000 0.0000 1.0000
*MESH_VERTEXNORMAL 0 0.0000 0.0000 1.0000
*MESH_VERTEXNORMAL 3 0.0000 0.0000 1.0000
*MESH_FACENORMAL 1 0.0000 0.0000 1.0000
*MESH_VERTEXNORMAL 1 0.0000 0.0000 1.0000
*MESH_VERTEXNORMAL 3 0.0000 0.0000 1.0000
*MESH_VERTEXNORMAL 0 0.0000 0.0000 1.0000
*MESH_FACENORMAL 2 0.0000 0.0000 -1.0000
*MESH_VERTEXNORMAL 5 0.0000 0.0000 -1.0000
*MESH_VERTEXNORMAL 4 0.0000 0.0000 -1.0000
*MESH_VERTEXNORMAL 7 0.0000 0.0000 -1.0000
*MESH_FACENORMAL 3 0.0000 0.0000 -1.0000
*MESH_VERTEXNORMAL 6 0.0000 0.0000 -1.0000
*MESH_VERTEXNORMAL 7 0.0000 0.0000 -1.0000
*MESH_VERTEXNORMAL 4 0.0000 0.0000 -1.0000
*MESH_FACENORMAL 4 0.0000 -1.0000 0.0000
*MESH_VERTEXNORMAL 1 0.0000 -1.0000 0.0000
*MESH_VERTEXNORMAL 0 0.0000 -1.0000 0.0000
*MESH_VERTEXNORMAL 5 0.0000 -1.0000 0.0000
*MESH_FACENORMAL 5 0.0000 -1.0000 0.0000
*MESH_VERTEXNORMAL 4 0.0000 -1.0000 0.0000
*MESH_VERTEXNORMAL 5 0.0000 -1.0000 0.0000
*MESH_VERTEXNORMAL 0 0.0000 -1.0000 0.0000
*MESH_FACENORMAL 6 1.0000 0.0000 0.0000
*MESH_VERTEXNORMAL 3 1.0000 0.0000 0.0000
*MESH_VERTEXNORMAL 1 1.0000 0.0000 0.0000
*MESH_VERTEXNORMAL 7 1.0000 0.0000 0.0000
*MESH_FACENORMAL 7 1.0000 0.0000 0.0000
*MESH_VERTEXNORMAL 5 1.0000 0.0000 0.0000
*MESH_VERTEXNORMAL 7 1.0000 0.0000 0.0000
*MESH_VERTEXNORMAL 1 1.0000 0.0000 0.0000
*MESH_FACENORMAL 8 0.0000 1.0000 0.0000
*MESH_VERTEXNORMAL 2 0.0000 1.0000 0.0000
*MESH_VERTEXNORMAL 3 0.0000 1.0000 0.0000
*MESH_VERTEXNORMAL 6 0.0000 1.0000 0.0000
*MESH_FACENORMAL 9 0.0000 1.0000 0.0000
*MESH_VERTEXNORMAL 7 0.0000 1.0000 0.0000
*MESH_VERTEXNORMAL 6 0.0000 1.0000 0.0000
*MESH_VERTEXNORMAL 3 0.0000 1.0000 0.0000
*MESH_FACENORMAL 10 -1.0000 0.0000 0.0000
*MESH_VERTEXNORMAL 0 -1.0000 0.0000 0.0000
*MESH_VERTEXNORMAL 2 -1.0000 0.0000 0.0000
*MESH_VERTEXNORMAL 4 -1.0000 0.0000 0.0000
*MESH_FACENORMAL 11 -1.0000 0.0000 0.0000
*MESH_VERTEXNORMAL 6 -1.0000 0.0000 0.0000
*MESH_VERTEXNORMAL 4 -1.0000 0.0000 0.0000
*MESH_VERTEXNORMAL 2 -1.0000 0.0000 0.0000
}
}
*PROP_MOTIONBLUR 0
*PROP_CASTSHADOW 1
*PROP_RECVSHADOW 1
}

[Klinn]

Ah good, Max3 produces that *GEOMOBJECT {' section. <whew>

The only time you remove any section of the ASE file is when you are using Milkshape and get the extra 'ROOT' object appearing in the file. The '*GEOMOBJECT {' section is just fine to leave in, and probably essential for Max. :) That extra 'ROOT' object is the usual reason for getting the error message about multiple objects, so I can see why you thought you had to hand-edit the file.

Glad to hear it's working now!

[Bitter Jeweler]

Ok all went well after that mess.
I got the objects "Installed" but now I get an error starting RCT3:

Relocation index 0x53e doesn't map to this overlay file.

anyone get that before?

I remove my install theme and RCT3 loads fine.

[Guybrush_47]

never had that error before... sounds like something is conflicting in your .thm file.

[JCat]

Bitter - I get that error at least once or twice a day - when installing new objects, and everything seems perfect. I head back to manage scenery, and check the latest object only to see all the parameters are correct. I don't why the program does this sometimes, but I wind up usually deleting the two ovls created, and the actual object from RCT3, and just do the process over - and for some reason, the second time's a charm!

[Klinn]

Yes, I've had the same error, or very similar, I don't recall if the hex code was the same. There seemed to be something corrupted in the OVL file. I shut down JonWil's Importer program, restarted it, re-built my OVL files, re-installed my theme, and it worked.

Hope this helps...

[Bitter Jeweler]

Ok, I redid the creating ovl's process and it worked this time.
I got into the game found my scenery items, and went to place it.
As soon as I clicked to place it, the game crashed.

Any Ideas?

Also Klinn, in your tutorial, you set the "Size in Squares" to 1x1.
Am I suposed to change that to the actual 3Dmax unit size of my item?

[Guybrush_47]

The 1x1 represents the tile in rct3. If you want to build a 2x2 roof for example it would be 2x2, or 2x1 for a long wall.

The dimensions of the actual object is represented via the 'size' x y z coords. Even then, it's not necessary atm, it will be, once we begin to add in all the flags properly.

When it locks up ingame, thats normally due to an error in the .ase, simply reexport it in 3ds and it should be ok. Once you've reexported it, you'll have to reimport it in jonwils editor. It's a bit tempermental at times, just give it a bit of love and it will love you back :D

I'm not sure if anyone has done much experimenting with the unknowns and flags, i'm probably the most experienced at this stage, i spent most of saturday playing about with some good results. For example collision detection and auto height adjustment is now working. Bar for a normal 1 full height, which is why i need jonwils assisstance.

[2005]

From what i remember you have to leave x,y,z as 1,1,1 or the game will crash.

positioning must be 0,0,0 too or object will be unplaceable.


Collosion detection don't work anyway so trying to set the real size of the object is a total waste of time.

I'll put a screen up.


I know this works:

http://img245.echo.cx/img245/6089/untitled4mw.jpg


ignore the special settings to guest injection point i accidentally changed that while taking the screen lol ; every other thing is right though.



Bitterjeweler you are by far the unluckiest person so far who has tried to create objects. :)

[Bitter Jeweler]

Originally posted by 2005

Bitterjeweler you are by far the unluckiest person so far who has tried to create objects. :)

ROFLMAO!
I am going thru what most of you have, so....
I changed the size in squares parameter, went back in game, and I couldn't place the item, it was the problem one of you had with the item being red with a few random blue squares under it...

So I redid everything, EVERYTHING, went back in game and the items don't even show LOL.

This is kinda funny, but I am getting tired, and may quit after one more try.

[2005]

you must set the psoistion to zero as i did in the screen above or it won't work.

This is well known. not 1 like the others, only zero works.

the issues you had with the object, it was exactly the same for evetyone else.

Have no idea why this is, just have to accept it for now.

[Guybrush_47]

collision detection does work. All my objects has collision detection working...

I know the error your talking about because it happened to me. You've set the the group to something rct3 can't render properly. I have a 9x9 dome, but because rct3 wouldn't allow me to have a 9x9 dome, i had to change it to 1x1.

2005, i have no problem when i mess around with the size values ;)

[2005]

how?

If i set the posistion values to any other than zero it won't place. I guess theres a flag somewhere to chnage this...........but to place objects anywhere its zero............

[Guybrush_47]

Ok

http://img135.echo.cx/img135/536/guycolldetect017ec.jpg

This is what i know thus far.

To get collision Detection Working you need to add:

Unknown 6 = 0
Unknown 8 = 3
Flag 33 - Ticked

Unknown 7 represents the auto scale height. What i mean by this, is that when you select a wall for example, you hold down shift and it automatically goes to the top of the wall... explaining it brilliantly... but you know what i mean. 1 represents a third, 2 represents 2 thirds and i can't find the setting for a full wall :/

I've left all the other options as 0 so i know what has been changed. That should work for all of you, works for me :)

Oh one more thing, for making items to go along the pathways, like benches, bins , lights etc. You need to fill in the size. A standard tile is 4 4 4, to get a bench it's 4 2 4 for a bin it's 4 1 4.

[2005]

i think for BW (looks like he has given up lol ) just getting the object in game - without worrying about coll. - is important.

But its important to write down the coll. detection for future reference.


Size values are no problem, only the posistion values have to be zero for me.

[Miss O]

Bitter, welcome to the fray! We are glad to have you!

I've spent all day working on my items, only to finally get a composite piece together after much trial and error. Texturing is going MUCH better, though I'm not QUITE 100% yet, but I'm way closer than I used to be. I've now imported two different items with the correct mapping. Here's what's coming out of my "shop" at the moment. And remember, this is a quick screen shot:

http://www.dimensional.com/~ladyrose/gbu.jpg

It's not a good shot to demonstrate, but the roof is curved. I realized after placing it in game that I didn't really want so much "structure" underneath it, so I'm going to reduce it to beams from the roof, not to mention moving it back in space.

Can someone explain the smoothing concept who doesn't use 3d Studio? I tried downloading it, and I don't even get the interface. I'm happy to stick with what I have for now, but if anyone understands MS enough to provide some insight on getting the smoothing of triangular bits created by vertices locations, I'm willing to listen.

[JCat]

This is strange - all of mine (and I think Marnetmar's) positions are set to 1/1/1/ and we've had no placement problems thus far.

[JCat]

Miss O - flaws or not - I love it so far. Those fences - wow!

[2005]

i'll have to try it agian.

I've being doing that out of habit because i was so sure it didn't work. I'm going to read over the old posts again, maybe i just made it up lol its not unknown for me :)


looks amzing that building but reduce the curve on the roof!

I know it seems ok now but imagine a full park, it all adds up. You can make acceptable curves with far fewer polyogns, maybe as little as 6 sections. will look a little blocky but 99% of the time you won't notice.

[Guybrush_47]

Is that a new Tree? Or are your settings on very low? If it is a new tree, how did you get the textures transparent?

Agreed on the roof btw, it needs reducing, thats the type of detail that would destroy your computer. The modelling however is very nice, and when it's tweaked (smoothing correctly) it will look very impressive.

[2005]

heres what i posted on page 4:



only problem is, when i place it, the object is totally invisible.


Then:


I noticed also the object was unplacable if the posistion tags for x,y,z were 1. When these are tags are 0, the object appears to be placable.
I haven't tried other values yet (ie 2,3,4,5).

Values of object size don't seem to make any difference, as long as they aren't 0.

size in squares needs to be 1 or my game crashes. Thats set to'full tile'. (for now thats all thats needed anyway - i'll let other people build walls and stuff).


But no-one else commented on this at the time. so??????????


anywaz sleep now got to be up at 8am :)

[Bitter Jeweler]

OK, I have had moderate success....
I made a wall and a floor.
The floor peice appears and is placeable and actually shows up, but I do get the shadow across it which I need to figure out how to change. I guess thats the smoothing thing you are talking about.

The Wall howeveris placeable but is invisible, just a shadow on the ground that it exists.

I think I am done for now.

[Guybrush_47]

Size tag 0 works fine for me, try duplicating the settings in my picture for a 1/3 wall. It comes out fine. The problem is that some unknowns and flags only work when other settings are on. As we don't know what the actual settings are, it's pretty hard to try and work out which ones need turning on and which ones need turning off.

The only way we can work this out, without hours of time wasted is for Jonwil to supply us with some more export settings, whereby i can use trial and error and work out what each one does.

I've had objects that were invisible before, but i can't remember what i changed, i think it was something to do with the texture?

The shadow you refer too is indeed smoothing. If you detach that face from the model, and then reattach the shadow will disappear. Just PM me if you don't know how, 3ds can be a little confusing to begin with.

[Miss O]

You drive me crazy with all your concerns about frame rate. I think it's time for you to get your hands on a better video card and some more RAM if you think that one one roof is enough to kill out your fps, and clearly that's all that's important. I'm not using unnecessary vertices (except in that Kasuga, which I wouldn't recommend for anyone concerned with framerates anyway, as it is just a pretty, not a functional), and my most complex item otherwise brought in only has 400 triangles, a mere 152 vertices.

For the record, my cool curved roof (less the wall-colored support)has 32 vertices and 60 triangles. The actual roof is comprised of 7 angles, each with 6 triangles, I believe. And that's it. If that's enough to kill your fps, then there's even less I can do to help you with that.

Grr. :mad:

[Guybrush_47]

In the picture it looks like 40 angles :P

What polygon limit are you going for?

Btw, it's all about fps in games, unfortunatly you can't just create an item that has a large amount, you have to think about the bigger picture. Annoying i know, but it has to happen. Believe me, if it wasn't about fps, i wouldn't be remaking all my models would I?

For the record i have a gig and half of ram and a nice video card ;)

But you got to think about the smaller people. I guess at the end of the day it depends on how many people you want using your stuff. If you want your stuff used by the whole community, polylimits must be in your head when your creating objects.

Believe someone who's had years of experience in modding games. It's not a critism Miss O far from it, i'm just giving you some advise, take it or leave it, thats up to you :)

P.S. Is that a new tree or not?

BTW, anyone gut any guesses on what Unknown 1 does? Theres 18 options in the drop down box, but i can't think what they could represent.

[marnetmar]

I have the settings for size & position all set to 1 1 1, as I found out that setting them to 000 made some of my props 1/2 buried in the ground when placing them.

Miss O-That looks really Fantastic so far :up: :up: Congrats on the texturing, I'm still lost on a few things, but it'll come in time.

[Guybrush_47]

Which props Marmetmar? Can you remember, as that could be a bit important.

The only times i had models that sunk into the ground was because the models i made were wrongly positioned in the 3d editor. They had part of the model below the negative y axis.

(btw, both the skull litter bin, and wagon wheel bench had position to 0 0 0)

[marnetmar]

They were just some flat panel props, with the settings at 0 0 0 they would be 1/2 way in the ground, but a 1 1 1 setting placed them at ground level.

[Guybrush_47]

and thats using position?

[JCat]

He's refering to position: 1 1 1 - that's what I have.

x0 y0 z0 did not work for me at all.... the above did.

[Miss O]

It's a mangrove tree, I think, but it's definitely not new.

As for FPS, I really don't like to play down to the lowest common denominator, as I find that the people in that category (currently including me) complain about fps no matter what. When and if I publish any of my items, it will be with the full disclosure about their size. I'm not trying to force things on people, but I don't feel the game is all about fps, it's about enjoyable play. If a game operates well, the play is enjoyable. If there are things that slow it down, I either don't build them, or I just accept the consequences.

There's only so much I can get rid of without creating boring objects. Already people have complained that Frontier clearly didn't try to reduce its polycount or the game wouldn't be slow. Does anyone honestly believe they were designing saying "hey, if I throw in some extra polygons, it'll slow people down, yes!"?

Besides, this isn't a first-person shooter, it only has to be so fast. I don't have a polygon limit in mind when I make things, I have a design. I try to limit the polygons used, and I'm finding out that things like my round windows just aren't practical, so I likely won't add them into the set.

[Guybrush_47]

Thats really weird Pumper. Perhaps it's something to do with milkshape?

I'm exporting fine and using size 0 0 0 position 0 0 0 as my screenshot showed.

I think position is used for creating hovering objects ingame. Technically there are two ways of creating hovering objects, you can adjust it in the 3d program, which can be a bit annoying if you like having it on the axis. Or you could use position, if you notice the only 'floating' things ingame is the floating signs for sci-fi.

Miss O, I think the thing is, i want to create stuff for everyone to use, and i understand that some people have low grade machines. When i worked on nwn, polycount was essential, so we had to be extremely strict on polycount. I'm not used to throwing about needless poly, and i try to make them as low as possible. However, i do understand your point, but i think RCT3 generally handles fps pretty poorly. Soaked, does look alot better, they're using alot more polys, if you look at the new buildings, rides, stalls. So perhaps they've optimised the engine a little bit.

I'm still puzzled on Unknown 1, i've checked to see if i can see anything ingame that has 18 features. The unique themes have 14, it could be something to do with the peep ai, but i'm really not sure. Could also be something to do with effects?

[JCat]

We have a few higher then average polygon items, but most are very basic. I'm not concerned either -- look at Frontier's own objects - that Demon animatronc, the headless horsemen, and any of the giant ride events...just for starters. Even our most detailed object doesn't come close to these in polys. If someone doesn't have the processing power, then they have a choice not to use those objects, while others who may have a capable PC shouldn't have to settle for the same. If an entire theme set consisted of all high polygon count objects, then that would be pushing it, but I see nothing wrong with a mixture.

[JCat]

Originally posted by Guybrush_47
Thats really weird Pumper. Perhaps it's something to do with milkshape?


That's probably it actually, which makes for tutorial writing even more complicated. :haha:

[marnetmar]

I'm sure some people will have fps issues regardless of what anyone makes for the game. As much as we try to keep the poly's low, it's just not always possible on some things. You can get away with a lot with really good textures, but it can't be done that way on everything.

[Guybrush_47]

I'm pretty sure though thats what position does, it makes sense. You set the size of your object, and then allow for the position. However, i just turned it onto 1 1 1, and it hasn't made any difference to my object at all... which pretty much throws my idea out. Perhaps it only effects path related objects....

[marnetmar]

Originally posted by Pumper
That's probably it actually, which makes for tutorial writing even more complicated. :haha:

That's for sure, considering there's people out there using who knows how many different modeling programs to make stuff. What works for one or two programs, has nothing to do with several other programs.

[Guybrush_47]

Can one of you do an experiment and try altering one of your objects to position 0 0 0 right now? You can always turn the setting back, it won't effect it at all in the long run.

P.S.

Just so you all can see i have got it to work, heres a screenshot

http://img251.echo.cx/img251/7281/guycolldetect023yn.jpg

Gotta love the groovy (test) texture :P

[marnetmar]

Originally posted by Guybrush_47
Can one of you do an experiment and try altering one of your objects to position 0 0 0 right now? You can always turn the setting back, it won't effect it at all in the long run.


Here you go Guy

http://modstothemax.net/mttmcommunity/files/settings_150.jpg

[Guybrush_47]

Where in your 3d program have you got your object? It maybe that you have you object half way through the Y axis, if you have your object centred on 0,0,0 then that error would occur.

http://img160.echo.cx/img160/1604/guy3ds018kb.jpg

Thats the only explanation i can give why it happens, what i find strange is that it has that positioning works for you, and not for me... odd.

I realised it had to be positioned like that when i was messing about with the bench option. Also have you saved your objects as walls or full tiles? Infact, can you write down here all your settings. That way i can put them ingame, and see if the same thing happens to me. If it does, then we know that its not the 3d program. I'm just trying to cut down whats happening, that way making it easier to write out tutorials.

Off to bed, will continue to discuss tommorow evening :)

[JCat]

Let me go in and check, I believe we do have walls centered in the axis (not on the edge).

[Guybrush_47]

Ah i think thats the problem then, when i had it centred my bench sank into the ground.

[marnetmar]

In MS the object has to be turned sideways in order for it to align properly in the game. This makes (in MS) the x axis = y aside from that difference, it's centered as I would any other object. You just have to mentally rotate where the "normal" axis' would be.

[Guybrush_47]

Yep same on 3ds, but still, you have to make sure it doesn't overlap. If it does, it will sink into the ground. Its really confusing, espically when all the views which are normall correct are all wrong. It gets me all confused when i try rotating the camera lol

Anyhow i really must be off, first day at work tommorow, need some sleep... if i get any :)

[JCat]

Here's a wall...
TOP
http://www.trackworx.com/top.jpg
FRONT
http://www.trackworx.com/front.jpg

[Guybrush_47]

The bottom of the wall should be inline with the yellow line. Once that is done, 0 0 0 will work fine. NN folks.

[marnetmar]

Originally posted by Guybrush_47
The bottom of the wall should be inline with the yellow line. Once that is done, 0 0 0 will work fine. NN folks.

That would move the wall piece off center Guy, the picture of the "front" of the model is as it is in MS, not as the game sees it. The wall "front" pic would actually need to be rotated 90 degrees counterclockwise to see it as it lines up in the game.




http://modstothemax.net/mttmcommunity/files/front_185.jpg

[2005]

I have a 3ghz/6600GT

With several sets of custom objects - had hundreds for rct2 - the game is just going to stop. Every object made needs to be as low poly as possible even if that looks a little blocky.

I think users will just not use objects that reduce the frame rate anyway. I'd much prefer to make something that looks average but that everyone uses than something amazing but that is impossible to use................I think some people are underestimating how bad the FPS is. Its ok for me but i can't stand low FPS.

It'll depend eventually on what people decide to d/l................

[SlipperyPenguin]

"I think the problem is that there no texture coordinates listed in the ASE file. SlipperyPenguin was having the same problem when using other 3D apps."

Yep.. I was.. many apps I tried seemed to export to 3Ds but didn't add any normals etc.. to the file.

In the end I now model in Imagine or Lightwave (depending on where I am in the world).. export as 3Ds. Use Milkshape to texture, convert using Biturn and then import as usual.

It's all a bit long winded but I'm still figuring everything out (I don't have much time at the moment).

However.. I have also found that if you use 3 sided polys in Lightwave you can convert the .lwo object to ASE using Biturn but I haven't had time to try texture mapping (plus I'm fairly new to Lightwave so I'm struggling there as well !) but will try when I have the time.

So if you have access to Lightwave you should give it a go and see how you get on as it maybe an alternative to pure max.

Slippery

[bored_dude02]

Have any tutorials been made for 'scenery editor' yet? I need one so bad. :cry: lol. I've kind-of figured out how to use those 3d modelling programs. So i guess i'm halfway there.......

[JCat]

If you check out this entire topic - almost every part of what to do with the scenery editor is mentioned in one form or another, and I believe Klinn has a basic tutorial that he posted to get someone started... it's a lot of messages to go through, but if you check out a bunch - it will help a lot, since there's a number of steps involved.

[Theme Parker]

My objects stay invisible. Isn't it that when you use a standard name as said before, that this overwrites another texture in the game? Or is it safe to use the standard name?

[2005]

don't think thats the problem............make sure all values are set to at least 1.


Basically its:

Make model
Convert to biturn to .ase
Edit .ase
Convert to .ovl with SE

I was working a few days ago on allowing objects to allow anyone to create dark (indoor) coasters but haven't made much progress it would be a huge project (anyone interested in helping?)

(this is NOT a photo edit its real in game)

http://img161.echo.cx/img161/8530/shot00744xt.jpg


spot the joins in the walls - looks better than you'd expect. its just black blocks, but making the blocks follow corkscrews and loops gets difficult (but possible given enough time)

[Theme Parker]

Also the position values?

[marnetmar]

Originally posted by Theme Parker
Also the position values?

Try 111 for those too & see how it lines up in the game.

[marnetmar]

Originally posted by 2005
I was working a few days ago on allowing objects to allow anyone to create dark (indoor) coasters but haven't made much progress it would be a huge project (anyone interested in helping?)


I guess you haven't seen this thread already 2005?


http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=462758


EDIT: I guess you have seen it 2005, since you posted on the first page of it.

[Theme Parker]

Still nothing shows up when I set everything to one :cry:

[Theme Parker]

Got it to work, up to creating something usefull as a start :D

[2005]

Originally posted by marnetmar
I guess you haven't seen this thread already 2005?


http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=462758


EDIT: I guess you have seen it 2005, since you posted on the first page of it.


yeah i've seen it i already made an black box to put rides in even before that thread was posted (its about page 7 or 8 i think)

That ride dosn't hide the track though like the above screen.........

[AdricTW]

I figured out everything except exact placement. For anyone using 3DS Max, any hints on the grid size, like what equals what?

[2005]

someone posted it i think 1 tile is 0.3 or 0.2 units in max (and most othe editors). Eventually you just get an idea for how big an object is.

[SlipperyPenguin]

I ended up doing it the hard way..

Create a cube..

Import it..

Make a note of it's size compared to other walls.. (I'm working on walls at the moment).. how it tiles.. etc..

Make adjustments and re-import..

Make adjustments and re-import..

etc..

Bit long winded but it seems to work for me.

Slippery

[Klinn]

As JonWil has posted a couple of times in this thread, an RCT3 ground grid square is 4x4 units in a 3D editor. A standard full height wall is 3 units high. Don't forget that in RCT3, the Y-axis is 'up'.

[JCat]

Originally posted by 2005
yeah i've seen it i already made an black box to put rides in even before that thread was posted (its about page 7 or 8 i think)

That ride dosn't hide the track though like the above screen.........

We don't want the track to be always hidden - it's a lot more exciting to see parts of track suddenly dissappear, in fact one quarter of the ride has no track; I didn't like the entire ride trackless. . The black box test was made made weeks ago, when I said I ran in to something interesting, and is so not a big deal.

[2005]

i wasn't saying your idea was bad or in any way not as good, i was just thinking of RNR or SM stlye rides that people could create themselves........in any case i haven't made any progress with that design and i'm not liekly to anytime soon.

[JCat]

No, I know you weren't saying anything bad...

I know what you're trying to do - for a Rock and RollerCoaster style ride. You should go on with it. Our Dark Ride is Wild Mouse based, with some abrupt drops and turns, but a good portion has an intensional slow pace.

What problems are you having with your idea? I think it would be great to have a high speed coaster in the dark with with inversions and stuff. Oh, and what happened to the supports theme pack?

[2005]

creating triangular blocks that follow corkscrews, half loops and curvres basically.

[JCat]

What about large black cubes (with both sides open of course)? That would fit over certain inversions. It's a bit tough to hide every piece of track.

[Guybrush_47]

Appolgies to SlipperyPenguin and AdricTW, i would have posted alot sooner offering some hints and tips and guiding you through the process, but i've begun a new job, so been very busy lately.

I assume by your posts, your both using 3ds. If you are, then look at the work process below, this is a step by step guide to how to create the models and put them ingame.

1. Model the object, a standard tile size 4x4x3 in max units, (that will create a solid block that covers the whole tile and is at the correct height to allign to the other walls. Remember to rotate the object once done so that y = the z axis. If you want a wall, the width size is 0.2, height depends on height of wall you want to create but it goes up by 0.1 in height. Making benches etc, is really frustrating, i have created a dummy ingame, so just give me a pm if you want the file to save you time.

2. Split up the object into smaller parts, this is required for the shadowing problem. If you want curved surfaces, leave them. But if you want a wall, then you have to split it up into a few objects, otherwise the ends will automatically smooth over.

3. Texture each object, the uvw unwrap top bottom is the wrong way round, so what i do is flip the texture you make the wrong way up in photoshop. Then use uvw unwrap to allign the texture up. Once textured, go back into photoshop and flip the texture to the right way up. Textures will now appear fine ingame.

4. Attach all the objects back into one model, do not weld any vertices otherwise you'll undo the whole process.

5. Export as .ASE

6. Follow Klinns tutorial on (page 9 I think)?

[WalkingSnake]

Originally posted by Guybrush_47
Appolgies to SlipperySnake and AdricTW,

It's nice to know you're thinking of me, but I think you mean SlipperyPenguin. ;)

[Guybrush_47]

See how tired i am :P

We've always got you on our minds... how can we forget the snake.

[2005]

Originally posted by Pumper
What about large black cubes (with both sides open of course)? That would fit over certain inversions. It's a bit tough to hide every piece of track.


i tried that, if you build a solid black cube, on ride cam, the scenery disspapears when the car goes 'inside' it. Basically it dosn't work - try it.

The only way is to hide every piece of track, but the lim and corkscrew are quite similar (anyway). I'm not sure its worthwhile, we don't know if soaked will have dark rides. probably not, but you never know...........

its a lot of effort for something fairly small. But i don't know.........maybe i'll start a poll or something.

if you want to start a project i'd help but its a seriously big project for me.

[2005]

Originally posted by Pumper
to have a high speed coaster in the dark with with inversions and stuff. Oh, and what happened to the supports theme pack?


without being able to change the colours i'm not sure its going to work. That and my scary university exams in a few weeks.............posting here is one thing but spending hours modelling is another.

[marnetmar]

I remember someone wanting some custom buildings in this thread someplace. Well here you go a 1 piece building prop, the scale is off, but it works & the textures are aligned properly ;)



http://modstothemax.net/mttmcommunity/files/in_game_test_429.jpg
In Game Bldg Test

[AdricTW]

Thanks for the sizing tips. I finaly have my globe for my Waterfall City park. Now all I need are the waterfalls and I'll be set!
http://www.whoinc.net/storage/wfc/wfc_04.jpg

[SlipperyPenguin]

No need to appologise Guybrush..

No problem at all. To be honest I've had a lot of other things to do apart from RCT3 so haven't spent as long learning max etc as I'd like to have at this point.

I'm getting there though. Oh.. and at the moment I'm trying to use Lightwave (I vaguely know this one) but still have not tried to texture anything as such yet. If I get any success I'll post a short tutorial. (maybe some time though !)

Cheers

Slippery

[Klinn]

Thanks for posting that workflow Guybrush, it will help me once (if) I start tackling texturing on objects. In the meantime, I'm making very small progress towards re-colourable objects:


http://www.designamatic.com/Graphics/RCT3-CustomWall08.jpg


I say 'small' because of a few things:

1. I'm using a different version of JonWIl's program that I just added a hard-coded modification and re-compiled. In other words, it won't produce non-recolourable objects, there's no checkbox to say 'make this particular OVL recolourable'.

2. I still haven't really figured out the colour mapping within the bitmap's colour table to produce the shades I want. Starting with one of the game's original textures I thought I was on the right track, but it didn't work out as expected. Needs more experimentation.

Edit: Heh, looking at that screenshot again, it reminds me of a stack of shipping containers.

[JCat]

Wow!! Klinn - that's actually a big step if you ask me!

[marnetmar]

That's a great start Klinn, even if the colors aren't what you're hoping for, you've made it this far & that's a big improvment already :up: :up: :up:

[marnetmar]

Originally posted by AdricTW
Thanks for the sizing tips. I finaly have my globe for my Waterfall City park. Now all I need are the waterfalls and I'll be set!
http://www.whoinc.net/storage/wfc/wfc_04.jpg


Very cool idea AdricTW That should come in handy for several things. :up: :up:

[jonwil]

Just to let you know that you can go ahead and do whatever you like to the source code to the program as long as you release all your changes back to the community. (well technically you dont have to release the source code unless you release the binaries) Be nice if you notified me of the changes (either here or via email etc) but thats not needed

[Klinn]

JonWil: Don't worry, if I make any changes to your program with the intention of releasing it, I'll run them by you first. Besides being the polite thing to do, my C skills are quite rusty. :) Now, if you had programmed the Importer in AutoLisp, I'd have no problem...

[coasterfreak00]

Klinn, I was wondering if you could make some straight walls and roofs for them for your electroshock set.

[2005]

if you get recolourable walls to work i might start work on the support set again.

[Klinn]

Originally posted by coasterfreak00
Klinn, I was wondering if you could make some straight walls and roofs for them for your electroshock set. This question probably would have fit in better over in the Electroshock thread in the Exchange forum, but anyway...

I have some straight walls and roofs planned out for the set, but not sure when I'll get around to making them. I want to do other experiments with re-colourable objects (see the above post of mine) and figure out how that works. Too many projects, too little time. ;)

[Guybrush_47]

Well since i haven't had any opportunity, or the resources to try and learn how to export the settings from rct3 objects. I've decided to stop experimenting for a bit, and go back to building.

I'm starting over again, this time, i'm concentrating on the interior first. Initial tests are very promising :)

I'll be asking some of you to beta test my files one they are ready. Hands up those that want to help me out...

What i really want is critism and plenty of it, that way i can try and get the walls as great as possible. Interestingly, i've got collision detection working, however, i can still place objects/rollercoasters on the same tile as a wall. This basically means that we get the best of both worlds, not only does the engine understand that my walls are solid, but i can have rollercoasters running past windows, and fit offices in to rooms.

[jonwil]

Here are some more settings for various objects from the wild west theme:
For flags, 1 is on, 0 is off
the "Extra parameters" should always be "none" unless otherwise specified.
Path Miners Lamp
flag 1 is 0
flag 2 is 0
flag 3 is 0
flag 4 is 0
flag 5 is 0
flag 6 is 0
flag 7 is 0
flag 8 is 0
flag 9 is 0
flag 10 is 0
flag 11 is 0
flag 12 is 0
flag 13 is 1
flag 14 is 1
flag 15 is 0
flag 16 is 0
flag 17 is 0
flag 18 is 0
flag 19 is 0
flag 20 is 0
flag 21 is 0
flag 22 is 0
flag 23 is 0
flag 24 is 0
flag 25 is 0
flag 26 is 0
flag 27 is 0
flag 28 is 0
flag 29 is 0
flag 30 is 0
flag 31 is 0
flag 32 is 0
flag 33 is 1
flag 34 is 1
flag 35 is 0
flag 36 is 0
flag 37 is 0
flag 38 is 0
flag 39 is 0
flag 40 is 1
flag 41 is 0
flag 42 is 0
flag 43 is 0
flag 44 is 0
flag 45 is 0
flag 46 is 0
flag 47 is 0
flag 48 is 0
flag 49 is 0
flag 50 is 0
flag 51 is 0
flag 52 is 0
flag 53 is 0
flag 54 is 0
flag 55 is 0
flag 56 is 0
flag 57 is 0
flag 58 is 0
flag 59 is 0
flag 60 is 0
flag 61 is 0
flag 62 is 0
flag 63 is 0
flag 64 is 0
size flag is "path edge (inner)
size in squares is x 1 y 1
size is x 4.000000 y 4.000000 z 4.000000
position is x 0.000000 y 0.000000 z 0.000000
unknown 1 is 1
unknown 2 is 2
unknown 3 is 0
unknown 4 is 0
unknown 5 is 0
unknown 6 is 0
unknown 7 is 4
unknown 8 is 15
unknown 9 is 1
type is Path Lamp

Scenery Miners Lamp
flag 1 is 0
flag 2 is 0
flag 3 is 0
flag 4 is 0
flag 5 is 0
flag 6 is 0
flag 7 is 0
flag 8 is 0
flag 9 is 0
flag 10 is 0
flag 11 is 0
flag 12 is 0
flag 13 is 1
flag 14 is 1
flag 15 is 0
flag 16 is 0
flag 17 is 0
flag 18 is 0
flag 19 is 0
flag 20 is 0
flag 21 is 0
flag 22 is 0
flag 23 is 0
flag 24 is 0
flag 25 is 0
flag 26 is 0
flag 27 is 0
flag 28 is 0
flag 29 is 0
flag 30 is 0
flag 31 is 0
flag 32 is 0
flag 33 is 1
flag 34 is 1
flag 35 is 0
flag 36 is 0
flag 37 is 0
flag 38 is 0
flag 39 is 0
flag 40 is 1
flag 41 is 0
flag 42 is 0
flag 43 is 0
flag 44 is 0
flag 45 is 0
flag 46 is 0
flag 47 is 0
flag 48 is 0
flag 49 is 0
flag 50 is 0
flag 51 is 0
flag 52 is 0
flag 53 is 0
flag 54 is 0
flag 55 is 0
flag 56 is 0
flag 57 is 0
flag 58 is 0
flag 59 is 0
flag 60 is 0
flag 61 is 0
flag 62 is 0
flag 63 is 0
flag 64 is 0
Size Flag is Quarter Tile
size in squares is x 1 y 1
size is x 4.000000 y 4.000000 z 4.000000
position is x 0.000000 y 0.000000 z 0.000000
unknown 1 is 1
unknown 2 is 2
unknown 3 is 0
unknown 4 is 0
unknown 5 is 0
unknown 6 is 0
unknown 7 is 4
unknown 8 is 15
unknown 9 is 1
Type is small scenery

Saloon
flag 1 is 0
flag 2 is 0
flag 3 is 1
flag 4 is 0
flag 5 is 0
flag 6 is 0
flag 7 is 1
flag 8 is 1
flag 9 is 0
flag 10 is 0
flag 11 is 0
flag 12 is 0
flag 13 is 0
flag 14 is 0
flag 15 is 0
flag 16 is 0
flag 17 is 0
flag 18 is 0
flag 19 is 0
flag 20 is 0
flag 21 is 0
flag 22 is 0
flag 23 is 0
flag 24 is 0
flag 25 is 0
flag 26 is 0
flag 27 is 0
flag 28 is 0
flag 29 is 0
flag 30 is 0
flag 31 is 0
flag 32 is 0
flag 33 is 1
flag 34 is 1
flag 35 is 0
flag 36 is 0
flag 37 is 0
flag 38 is 0
flag 39 is 0
flag 40 is 0
flag 41 is 1
flag 42 is 1
flag 43 is 1
flag 44 is 1
flag 45 is 0
flag 46 is 0
flag 47 is 0
flag 48 is 0
flag 49 is 0
flag 50 is 0
flag 51 is 0
flag 52 is 0
flag 53 is 0
flag 54 is 0
flag 55 is 0
flag 56 is 0
flag 57 is 0
flag 58 is 0
flag 59 is 0
flag 60 is 0
flag 61 is 0
flag 62 is 0
flag 63 is 0
flag 64 is 0
Size Flag is "full tile"
size in squares is x 2 y 2
size is x 8.000000 y 9.000000 z 8.000000
position is x 0.000000 y 0.000000 z 0.000000
unknown 1 is 1
unknown 2 is 2
unknown 3 is 20
unknown 4 is 24
unknown 5 is 12
unknown 6 is 0
unknown 7 is 4
unknown 8 is 15
unknown 9 is 1
Type is "Large Scenery"

Barbed Wire Fence Straight
flag 1 is 0
flag 2 is 0
flag 3 is 0
flag 4 is 0
flag 5 is 0
flag 6 is 0
flag 7 is 1
flag 8 is 0
flag 9 is 0
flag 10 is 0
flag 11 is 0
flag 12 is 0
flag 13 is 1
flag 14 is 1
flag 15 is 0
flag 16 is 0
flag 17 is 0
flag 18 is 0
flag 19 is 0
flag 20 is 0
flag 21 is 0
flag 22 is 0
flag 23 is 0
flag 24 is 0
flag 25 is 0
flag 26 is 0
flag 27 is 0
flag 28 is 0
flag 29 is 0
flag 30 is 0
flag 31 is 0
flag 32 is 0
flag 33 is 1
flag 34 is 1
flag 35 is 0
flag 36 is 0
flag 37 is 1
flag 38 is 0
flag 39 is 0
flag 40 is 1
flag 41 is 0
flag 42 is 0
flag 43 is 1
flag 44 is 0
flag 45 is 0
flag 46 is 0
flag 47 is 0
flag 48 is 0
flag 49 is 0
flag 50 is 0
flag 51 is 0
flag 52 is 0
flag 53 is 0
flag 54 is 0
flag 55 is 0
flag 56 is 0
flag 57 is 0
flag 58 is 0
flag 59 is 0
flag 60 is 0
flag 61 is 0
flag 62 is 0
flag 63 is 0
flag 64 is 0
Size Flag is "wall"
size in squares is x 1 y 1
size is x 4.000000 y 2.000000 z 4.000000
position is x 0.000000 y 0.000000 z 0.000000
unknown 1 is 1
unknown 2 is 0
unknown 3 is 23
unknown 4 is 22
unknown 5 is 2
unknown 6 is 0
unknown 7 is 2
unknown 8 is 3
unknown 9 is 1
Type is "fence"

Barn Top Building Thing
flag 1 is 1
flag 2 is 0
flag 3 is 0
flag 4 is 0
flag 5 is 0
flag 6 is 0
flag 7 is 1
flag 8 is 0
flag 9 is 0
flag 10 is 0
flag 11 is 0
flag 12 is 0
flag 13 is 1
flag 14 is 0
flag 15 is 0
flag 16 is 0
flag 17 is 0
flag 18 is 0
flag 19 is 0
flag 20 is 0
flag 21 is 0
flag 22 is 0
flag 23 is 0
flag 24 is 0
flag 25 is 0
flag 26 is 0
flag 27 is 0
flag 28 is 0
flag 29 is 0
flag 30 is 0
flag 31 is 0
flag 32 is 0
flag 33 is 1
flag 34 is 1
flag 35 is 0
flag 36 is 1
flag 37 is 1
flag 38 is 1
flag 39 is 1
flag 40 is 1
flag 41 is 1
flag 42 is 1
flag 43 is 1
flag 44 is 1
flag 45 is 0
flag 46 is 0
flag 47 is 0
flag 48 is 0
flag 49 is 0
flag 50 is 0
flag 51 is 0
flag 52 is 0
flag 53 is 0
flag 54 is 0
flag 55 is 0
flag 56 is 0
flag 57 is 0
flag 58 is 0
flag 59 is 0
flag 60 is 0
flag 61 is 0
flag 62 is 0
flag 63 is 0
flag 64 is 0
Size Flag is "full tile"
size in squares is x 2 y 1
size is x 8.000000 y 7.000000 z 4.000000
position is x 0.000000 y 0.000000 z 0.000000
unknown 1 is 1
unknown 2 is 0
unknown 3 is 23
unknown 4 is 22
unknown 5 is 2
unknown 6 is 0
unknown 7 is 7
unknown 8 is 127
unknown 9 is 1
Type is "wall misc"

Corral Ranch Wall with multiple ropes
flag 1 is 1
flag 2 is 0
flag 3 is 0
flag 4 is 0
flag 5 is 0
flag 6 is 0
flag 7 is 1
flag 8 is 0
flag 9 is 0
flag 10 is 0
flag 11 is 0
flag 12 is 0
flag 13 is 1
flag 14 is 0
flag 15 is 0
flag 16 is 0
flag 17 is 0
flag 18 is 0
flag 19 is 0
flag 20 is 0
flag 21 is 0
flag 22 is 0
flag 23 is 0
flag 24 is 0
flag 25 is 0
flag 26 is 0
flag 27 is 0
flag 28 is 0
flag 29 is 0
flag 30 is 0
flag 31 is 0
flag 32 is 0
flag 33 is 1
flag 34 is 1
flag 35 is 0
flag 36 is 0
flag 37 is 1
flag 38 is 0
flag 39 is 0
flag 40 is 1
flag 41 is 0
flag 42 is 0
flag 43 is 1
flag 44 is 0
flag 45 is 0
flag 46 is 0
flag 47 is 0
flag 48 is 0
flag 49 is 0
flag 50 is 0
flag 51 is 0
flag 52 is 0
flag 53 is 0
flag 54 is 0
flag 55 is 0
flag 56 is 0
flag 57 is 0
flag 58 is 0
flag 59 is 0
flag 60 is 0
flag 61 is 0
flag 62 is 0
flag 63 is 0
flag 64 is 0
size flag is "wall"
size in squares is x 1 y 1
size is x 4.000000 y 3.000000 z 4.000000
position is x 0.000000 y 0.000000 z 0.000000
unknown 1 is 1
unknown 2 is 0
unknown 3 is 23
unknown 4 is 22
unknown 5 is 2
unknown 6 is 0
unknown 7 is 3
unknown 8 is 7
unknown 9 is 1
Type is "wall straight"

Wild West Town full height wall
flag 1 is 1
flag 2 is 0
flag 3 is 0
flag 4 is 0
flag 5 is 0
flag 6 is 0
flag 7 is 1
flag 8 is 0
flag 9 is 0
flag 10 is 0
flag 11 is 0
flag 12 is 0
flag 13 is 1
flag 14 is 0
flag 15 is 0
flag 16 is 0
flag 17 is 0
flag 18 is 0
flag 19 is 0
flag 20 is 0
flag 21 is 0
flag 22 is 0
flag 23 is 0
flag 24 is 0
flag 25 is 0
flag 26 is 0
flag 27 is 0
flag 28 is 0
flag 29 is 0
flag 30 is 0
flag 31 is 0
flag 32 is 0
flag 33 is 1
flag 34 is 1
flag 35 is 0
flag 36 is 0
flag 37 is 0
flag 38 is 0
flag 39 is 0
flag 40 is 0
flag 41 is 0
flag 42 is 0
flag 43 is 0
flag 44 is 0
flag 45 is 0
flag 46 is 0
flag 47 is 0
flag 48 is 0
flag 49 is 0
flag 50 is 0
flag 51 is 0
flag 52 is 0
flag 53 is 0
flag 54 is 0
flag 55 is 0
flag 56 is 0
flag 57 is 0
flag 58 is 0
flag 59 is 0
flag 60 is 0
flag 61 is 0
flag 62 is 0
flag 63 is 0
flag 64 is 0
Size Flag is "wall"
size in squares is x 1 y 1
size is x 4.000000 y 3.000000 z 4.000000
position is x 0.000000 y 0.000000 z 0.000000
unknown 1 is 4
unknown 2 is 0
unknown 3 is 23
unknown 4 is 22
unknown 5 is 2
unknown 6 is 0
unknown 7 is 3
unknown 8 is 7
unknown 9 is 1
type is "straight wall"

porch square block
flag 1 is 1
flag 2 is 0
flag 3 is 0
flag 4 is 0
flag 5 is 0
flag 6 is 0
flag 7 is 1
flag 8 is 0
flag 9 is 0
flag 10 is 0
flag 11 is 0
flag 12 is 0
flag 13 is 1
flag 14 is 0
flag 15 is 0
flag 16 is 0
flag 17 is 0
flag 18 is 0
flag 19 is 0
flag 20 is 0
flag 21 is 0
flag 22 is 0
flag 23 is 0
flag 24 is 0
flag 25 is 0
flag 26 is 0
flag 27 is 0
flag 28 is 0
flag 29 is 0
flag 30 is 0
flag 31 is 0
flag 32 is 0
flag 33 is 1
flag 34 is 1
flag 35 is 0
flag 36 is 0
flag 37 is 0
flag 38 is 0
flag 39 is 0
flag 40 is 0
flag 41 is 0
flag 42 is 0
flag 43 is 0
flag 44 is 0
flag 45 is 0
flag 46 is 0
flag 47 is 0
flag 48 is 0
flag 49 is 0
flag 50 is 0
flag 51 is 0
flag 52 is 0
flag 53 is 0
flag 54 is 0
flag 55 is 0
flag 56 is 0
flag 57 is 0
flag 58 is 0
flag 59 is 0
flag 60 is 0
flag 61 is 0
flag 62 is 0
flag 63 is 0
flag 64 is 0
sizeflag is "full tile"
size in squares is x 1 y 1
size is x 4.000000 y 1.000000 z 4.000000
position is x 0.000000 y 0.000000 z 0.000000
unknown 1 is 2
unknown 2 is 0
unknown 3 is 23
unknown 4 is 22
unknown 5 is 2
unknown 6 is 0
unknown 7 is 1
unknown 8 is 1
unknown 9 is 1
type is "wall misc"

porch roof corner
flag 1 is 1
flag 2 is 0
flag 3 is 0
flag 4 is 0
flag 5 is 0
flag 6 is 0
flag 7 is 1
flag 8 is 0
flag 9 is 0
flag 10 is 0
flag 11 is 0
flag 12 is 0
flag 13 is 1
flag 14 is 0
flag 15 is 0
flag 16 is 0
flag 17 is 0
flag 18 is 0
flag 19 is 0
flag 20 is 0
flag 21 is 0
flag 22 is 0
flag 23 is 0
flag 24 is 0
flag 25 is 0
flag 26 is 0
flag 27 is 0
flag 28 is 0
flag 29 is 0
flag 30 is 0
flag 31 is 0
flag 32 is 0
flag 33 is 1
flag 34 is 1
flag 35 is 0
flag 36 is 0
flag 37 is 0
flag 38 is 0
flag 39 is 0
flag 40 is 0
flag 41 is 0
flag 42 is 0
flag 43 is 0
flag 44 is 0
flag 45 is 0
flag 46 is 0
flag 47 is 0
flag 48 is 0
flag 49 is 0
flag 50 is 0
flag 51 is 0
flag 52 is 0
flag 53 is 0
flag 54 is 0
flag 55 is 0
flag 56 is 0
flag 57 is 0
flag 58 is 0
flag 59 is 0
flag 60 is 0
flag 61 is 0
flag 62 is 0
flag 63 is 0
flag 64 is 0
size flag is "full tile"
size in squares is x 1 y 1
size is x 4.000000 y 1.000000 z 4.000000
position is x 0.000000 y 0.000000 z 0.000000
unknown 1 is 2
unknown 2 is 0
unknown 3 is 23
unknown 4 is 22
unknown 5 is 2
unknown 6 is 0
unknown 7 is 1
unknown 8 is 1
unknown 9 is 1
type is "wall roof"

flat roof
flag 1 is 1
flag 2 is 0
flag 3 is 0
flag 4 is 0
flag 5 is 0
flag 6 is 0
flag 7 is 1
flag 8 is 0
flag 9 is 0
flag 10 is 0
flag 11 is 0
flag 12 is 0
flag 13 is 1
flag 14 is 0
flag 15 is 0
flag 16 is 0
flag 17 is 0
flag 18 is 0
flag 19 is 0
flag 20 is 0
flag 21 is 0
flag 22 is 0
flag 23 is 0
flag 24 is 0
flag 25 is 0
flag 26 is 0
flag 27 is 0
flag 28 is 0
flag 29 is 0
flag 30 is 0
flag 31 is 0
flag 32 is 0
flag 33 is 1
flag 34 is 1
flag 35 is 0
flag 36 is 0
flag 37 is 0
flag 38 is 0
flag 39 is 0
flag 40 is 0
flag 41 is 0
flag 42 is 0
flag 43 is 0
flag 44 is 0
flag 45 is 0
flag 46 is 0
flag 47 is 0
flag 48 is 0
flag 49 is 0
flag 50 is 0
flag 51 is 0
flag 52 is 0
flag 53 is 0
flag 54 is 0
flag 55 is 0
flag 56 is 0
flag 57 is 0
flag 58 is 0
flag 59 is 0
flag 60 is 0
flag 61 is 0
flag 62 is 0
flag 63 is 0
flag 64 is 0
size flag is "full tile"
size in squares is x 1 y 1
size is x 4.000000 y 1.000000 z 4.000000
position is x 0.000000 y 0.000000 z 0.000000
unknown 1 is 2
unknown 2 is 0
unknown 3 is 23
unknown 4 is 22
unknown 5 is 2
unknown 6 is 0
unknown 7 is 1
unknown 8 is 1
unknown 9 is 1
type is "wall roof"

Stairs
flag 1 is 1
flag 2 is 0
flag 3 is 0
flag 4 is 0
flag 5 is 0
flag 6 is 0
flag 7 is 1
flag 8 is 0
flag 9 is 0
flag 10 is 0
flag 11 is 0
flag 12 is 0
flag 13 is 1
flag 14 is 0
flag 15 is 0
flag 16 is 0
flag 17 is 0
flag 18 is 0
flag 19 is 0
flag 20 is 0
flag 21 is 0
flag 22 is 0
flag 23 is 0
flag 24 is 0
flag 25 is 0
flag 26 is 0
flag 27 is 0
flag 28 is 0
flag 29 is 0
flag 30 is 0
flag 31 is 0
flag 32 is 0
flag 33 is 1
flag 34 is 1
flag 35 is 0
flag 36 is 0
flag 37 is 0
flag 38 is 0
flag 39 is 0
flag 40 is 0
flag 41 is 0
flag 42 is 0
flag 43 is 0
flag 44 is 0
flag 45 is 0
flag 46 is 0
flag 47 is 0
flag 48 is 0
flag 49 is 0
flag 50 is 0
flag 51 is 0
flag 52 is 0
flag 53 is 0
flag 54 is 0
flag 55 is 0
flag 56 is 0
flag 57 is 0
flag 58 is 0
flag 59 is 0
flag 60 is 0
flag 61 is 0
flag 62 is 0
flag 63 is 0
flag 64 is 0
size flag is "full tile"
size in squares is x 1 y 1
size is x 4.000000 y 3.000000 z 4.000000
position is x 0.000000 y 0.000000 z 0.000000
unknown 1 is 4
unknown 2 is 0
unknown 3 is 23
unknown 4 is 22
unknown 5 is 2
unknown 6 is 0
unknown 7 is 3
unknown 8 is 7
unknown 9 is 1
type is "wall misc"

wild west corner wall
flag 1 is 1
flag 2 is 0
flag 3 is 0
flag 4 is 0
flag 5 is 0
flag 6 is 0
flag 7 is 1
flag 8 is 0
flag 9 is 0
flag 10 is 0
flag 11 is 0
flag 12 is 0
flag 13 is 1
flag 14 is 0
flag 15 is 0
flag 16 is 0
flag 17 is 0
flag 18 is 0
flag 19 is 0
flag 20 is 0
flag 21 is 0
flag 22 is 0
flag 23 is 0
flag 24 is 0
flag 25 is 0
flag 26 is 0
flag 27 is 0
flag 28 is 0
flag 29 is 0
flag 30 is 0
flag 31 is 0
flag 32 is 0
flag 33 is 1
flag 34 is 1
flag 35 is 0
flag 36 is 0
flag 37 is 0
flag 38 is 0
flag 39 is 0
flag 40 is 0
flag 41 is 0
flag 42 is 0
flag 43 is 0
flag 44 is 0
flag 45 is 0
flag 46 is 0
flag 47 is 0
flag 48 is 0
flag 49 is 0
flag 50 is 0
flag 51 is 0
flag 52 is 0
flag 53 is 0
flag 54 is 0
flag 55 is 0
flag 56 is 0
flag 57 is 0
flag 58 is 0
flag 59 is 0
flag 60 is 0
flag 61 is 0
flag 62 is 0
flag 63 is 0
flag 64 is 0
size flag is "full tile"
size in squares is x 1 y 1
size is x 4.000000 y 3.000000 z 4.000000
position is x 0.000000 y 0.000000 z 0.000000
unknown 1 is 4
unknown 2 is 0
unknown 3 is 23
unknown 4 is 22
unknown 5 is 2
unknown 6 is 0
unknown 7 is 3
unknown 8 is 7
unknown 9 is 1
type is "wall corner"

Quarter Wall
flag 1 is 1
flag 2 is 0
flag 3 is 0
flag 4 is 0
flag 5 is 0
flag 6 is 0
flag 7 is 1
flag 8 is 0
flag 9 is 0
flag 10 is 0
flag 11 is 0
flag 12 is 0
flag 13 is 1
flag 14 is 0
flag 15 is 0
flag 16 is 0
flag 17 is 0
flag 18 is 0
flag 19 is 0
flag 20 is 0
flag 21 is 0
flag 22 is 0
flag 23 is 0
flag 24 is 0
flag 25 is 0
flag 26 is 0
flag 27 is 0
flag 28 is 0
flag 29 is 0
flag 30 is 0
flag 31 is 0
flag 32 is 0
flag 33 is 1
flag 34 is 1
flag 35 is 0
flag 36 is 0
flag 37 is 0
flag 38 is 0
flag 39 is 0
flag 40 is 0
flag 41 is 0
flag 42 is 0
flag 43 is 0
flag 44 is 0
flag 45 is 0
flag 46 is 0
flag 47 is 0
flag 48 is 0
flag 49 is 0
flag 50 is 0
flag 51 is 0
flag 52 is 0
flag 53 is 0
flag 54 is 0
flag 55 is 0
flag 56 is 0
flag 57 is 0
flag 58 is 0
flag 59 is 0
flag 60 is 0
flag 61 is 0
flag 62 is 0
flag 63 is 0
flag 64 is 0
size flag is "wall"
size in squares is x 1 y 1
size is x 4.000000 y 1.000000 z 4.000000
position is x 0.000000 y 0.000000 z 0.000000
unknown 1 is 2
unknown 2 is 0
unknown 3 is 23
unknown 4 is 22
unknown 5 is 2
unknown 6 is 0
unknown 7 is 1
unknown 8 is 1
unknown 9 is 1
type is "wall straight"

horse trough
flag 1 is 0
flag 2 is 0
flag 3 is 1
flag 4 is 0
flag 5 is 0
flag 6 is 0
flag 7 is 1
flag 8 is 1
flag 9 is 0
flag 10 is 0
flag 11 is 0
flag 12 is 0
flag 13 is 0
flag 14 is 0
flag 15 is 0
flag 16 is 0
flag 17 is 0
flag 18 is 0
flag 19 is 0
flag 20 is 0
flag 21 is 0
flag 22 is 0
flag 23 is 0
flag 24 is 0
flag 25 is 0
flag 26 is 0
flag 27 is 0
flag 28 is 0
flag 29 is 0
flag 30 is 0
flag 31 is 0
flag 32 is 0
flag 33 is 1
flag 34 is 1
flag 35 is 0
flag 36 is 0
flag 37 is 0
flag 38 is 0
flag 39 is 1
flag 40 is 1
flag 41 is 0
flag 42 is 1
flag 43 is 1
flag 44 is 1
flag 45 is 0
flag 46 is 0
flag 47 is 0
flag 48 is 0
flag 49 is 0
flag 50 is 0
flag 51 is 0
flag 52 is 0
flag 53 is 0
flag 54 is 0
flag 55 is 0
flag 56 is 0
flag 57 is 0
flag 58 is 0
flag 59 is 0
flag 60 is 0
flag 61 is 0
flag 62 is 0
flag 63 is 0
flag 64 is 0
size is "Full tile"
size in squares is x 1 y 1
size is x 4.000000 y 2.000000 z 4.000000
position is x 0.000000 y 0.000000 z 0.000000
unknown 1 is 1
unknown 2 is 2
unknown 3 is 0
unknown 4 is 0
unknown 5 is 0
unknown 6 is 0
unknown 7 is 2
unknown 8 is 3
unknown 9 is 1
type is "medium scenery"

pickaxe/shovel
flag 1 is 0
flag 2 is 0
flag 3 is 1
flag 4 is 0
flag 5 is 0
flag 6 is 0
flag 7 is 1
flag 8 is 1
flag 9 is 0
flag 10 is 0
flag 11 is 0
flag 12 is 0
flag 13 is 0
flag 14 is 0
flag 15 is 0
flag 16 is 0
flag 17 is 0
flag 18 is 0
flag 19 is 0
flag 20 is 0
flag 21 is 0
flag 22 is 0
flag 23 is 0
flag 24 is 0
flag 25 is 0
flag 26 is 0
flag 27 is 0
flag 28 is 0
flag 29 is 0
flag 30 is 0
flag 31 is 0
flag 32 is 0
flag 33 is 1
flag 34 is 1
flag 35 is 0
flag 36 is 1
flag 37 is 1
flag 38 is 1
flag 39 is 1
flag 40 is 1
flag 41 is 1
flag 42 is 1
flag 43 is 1
flag 44 is 1
flag 45 is 0
flag 46 is 0
flag 47 is 0
flag 48 is 0
flag 49 is 0
flag 50 is 0
flag 51 is 0
flag 52 is 0
flag 53 is 0
flag 54 is 0
flag 55 is 0
flag 56 is 0
flag 57 is 0
flag 58 is 0
flag 59 is 0
flag 60 is 0
flag 61 is 0
flag 62 is 0
flag 63 is 0
flag 64 is 0
size is "full tile"
size in squares is x 1 y 1
size is x 4.000000 y 2.000000 z 4.000000
position is x 0.000000 y 0.000000 z 0.000000
unknown 1 is 1
unknown 2 is 2
unknown 3 is 0
unknown 4 is 0
unknown 5 is 0
unknown 6 is 0
unknown 7 is 2
unknown 8 is 3
unknown 9 is 1
type is "medium scenery"

Dynamite
flag 1 is 0
flag 2 is 0
flag 3 is 1
flag 4 is 0
flag 5 is 0
flag 6 is 0
flag 7 is 1
flag 8 is 1
flag 9 is 0
flag 10 is 0
flag 11 is 0
flag 12 is 0
flag 13 is 0
flag 14 is 0
flag 15 is 0
flag 16 is 0
flag 17 is 0
flag 18 is 0
flag 19 is 0
flag 20 is 0
flag 21 is 0
flag 22 is 0
flag 23 is 0
flag 24 is 0
flag 25 is 0
flag 26 is 0
flag 27 is 0
flag 28 is 0
flag 29 is 0
flag 30 is 0
flag 31 is 0
flag 32 is 0
flag 33 is 1
flag 34 is 1
flag 35 is 0
flag 36 is 1
flag 37 is 1
flag 38 is 1
flag 39 is 1
flag 40 is 1
flag 41 is 1
flag 42 is 1
flag 43 is 1
flag 44 is 1
flag 45 is 0
flag 46 is 0
flag 47 is 0
flag 48 is 0
flag 49 is 0
flag 50 is 0
flag 51 is 0
flag 52 is 0
flag 53 is 0
flag 54 is 0
flag 55 is 0
flag 56 is 0
flag 57 is 0
flag 58 is 0
flag 59 is 0
flag 60 is 0
flag 61 is 0
flag 62 is 0
flag 63 is 0
flag 64 is 0
size flag is "full tile"
size in squares is x 1 y 1
size is x 4.000000 y 2.000000 z 4.000000
position is x 0.000000 y 0.000000 z 0.000000
unknown 1 is 1
unknown 2 is 2
unknown 3 is 0
unknown 4 is 0
unknown 5 is 0
unknown 6 is 0
unknown 7 is 2
unknown 8 is 3
unknown 9 is 1
type is "medium scenery"

cattle skull
flag 1 is 0
flag 2 is 0
flag 3 is 1
flag 4 is 1
flag 5 is 0
flag 6 is 0
flag 7 is 1
flag 8 is 1
flag 9 is 0
flag 10 is 0
flag 11 is 0
flag 12 is 0
flag 13 is 0
flag 14 is 0
flag 15 is 0
flag 16 is 0
flag 17 is 0
flag 18 is 0
flag 19 is 0
flag 20 is 0
flag 21 is 0
flag 22 is 0
flag 23 is 0
flag 24 is 0
flag 25 is 0
flag 26 is 0
flag 27 is 0
flag 28 is 0
flag 29 is 0
flag 30 is 0
flag 31 is 0
flag 32 is 0
flag 33 is 1
flag 34 is 1
flag 35 is 0
flag 36 is 1
flag 37 is 1
flag 38 is 1
flag 39 is 1
flag 40 is 1
flag 41 is 1
flag 42 is 1
flag 43 is 1
flag 44 is 1
flag 45 is 0
flag 46 is 0
flag 47 is 0
flag 48 is 0
flag 49 is 0
flag 50 is 0
flag 51 is 0
flag 52 is 0
flag 53 is 0
flag 54 is 0
flag 55 is 0
flag 56 is 0
flag 57 is 0
flag 58 is 0
flag 59 is 0
flag 60 is 0
flag 61 is 0
flag 62 is 0
flag 63 is 0
flag 64 is 0
size is "Full tile"
size in squares is x 1 y 1
size is x 4.000000 y 1.000000 z 4.000000
position is x 0.000000 y -1.000000 z 0.000000
unknown 1 is 1
unknown 2 is 2
unknown 3 is 0
unknown 4 is 0
unknown 5 is 0
unknown 6 is -1
unknown 7 is 1
unknown 8 is 3
unknown 9 is 1
type is "medium scenery"

If anyone wants any other objects (from wild west or elsewhere) let me know and I will see if I can get them for you) but hopefully these dumps should help get your objects to do what you want.

By the way, assuming you put the object in the correct place in your 3D editor before you exported (a typical square base block goes from -2 to 2 in the x and z axies and 0 to whatever in the Y axis), you shouldnt need to set the "position" settings in my scenery editor.
If you do find that your object is not in the correct position, check it in the 3d program.
If it goes below the Y axis, move it so that the lowest point is at 0 on the Y axis.

[Guybrush_47]

I 'heart' you Jonwil :)

I'll get on and start experimenting again once i've finished a few more of these walls.

I've spotted a few things Jonwil, atm, we can't set unknown 2 to 0. It only allows us to select 1,2 and 3.

Also, wtf, 24-25 :/

no idea what the unknown numbers mean... this is going to take a long time to work out.

unknown 8 = 127 for the barn roof thing :o

btw, thanks alot for this jonwil, this should really help.

[marnetmar]

Thank You Very Much Jonwil :up: :up: :up: :up: :up: That looks like it was a lot of work, but it should be very helpful for us all. We really appreciate you getting this information for us.

[Theme Parker]

Can anyone please send me a texture, so I can see how texturing works, I don't get the point at all on that subject :(

How do you get such good textures with 256 bit bmp's? :cry:

[Klinn]

Thanks very much JonWil for the data dumps. :up: I'm going to try and put it together in some sort of grid format to make it easier to compare values for different objects. I think you posted some data about other objects earlier on in this thread, I'll try to dig it up and add it. When I get the grid/spreadsheet/whatever done, I'll edit this message and link to the file.

EDIT: >Phew< Here's the link to the Scenery OVL Settings (http://www.designamatic.com/Downloads/RCT3-SceneryOVLSettings-Ver01.zip) grid. Included in that zip file is both the original Excel spreadsheet and a PDF version for anybody who can't open Excel files.

I've labelled this file 'Version 1' in hopes that we'll accumulate more samples later. If anyone else wants to add something, feel free. Or send the info to me. I'll be glad to create an updated PDF and host the file. Remember, at this point we're only interested in data directly extracted from OVL files, not what somebody's best guess about a flag might happen to be. As the data is analysed and tested, then we can gradually assemble a "To Get This - Check This Box" type of list.

[2005]

there dosn't seem to be much interest in this anymore anyone working on new models?

[Theme Parker]

Yeah, I've completed a set of clay models, how the h*ll can I create a good texture on them, don't understand that point at all :cry:

[WalkingSnake]

Originally posted by 2005
there dosn't seem to be much interest in this anymore anyone working on new models?

:eek: Are you blind, of course there's still tons of interest in it. Have you viewed the posts before yours?

[d_h1234]

Originally posted by 2005
there dosn't seem to be much interest in this anymore anyone working on new models?

Yeah not much interest, considering it's got 689 replies, and almost 15 THOUSAND views..

So yeah, no ones really interested...Everyone just keeps posting here cause they're lost.

:rolleyes:

[2005]

i just meant there isn't many new projects.

Theres a lot of posts but not as many as a week ago.

[marnetmar]

Thanks Klinn, Very nice work on the spreadsheet, hopefully we can get more info to add to it in the near future. :up: :up: :up:

[marnetmar]

Originally posted by Theme Parker
Can anyone please send me a texture, so I can see how texturing works, I don't get the point at all on that subject :(

How do you get such good textures with 256 bit bmp's? :cry:


What kind of texture do you need Theme Parker?

[TrSH]

Hi,

I'm from Spain, so I don't speak English well...

Where can I show a tutorial? I want to make my own scenary but I don't know how can I do it.

Can you help me, please?

[2005]

there isn't a really a tutorial yet really that i know of.

[TrSH]

But, how can I make a custom scenary?

Can someone help me?

Please I need your help

[marnetmar]

Here's the Tutorial that Klinn posted in this thread awhile back, I saved it as a html file. All you have to do is unzip it to your desktop or wherever & double click on it to read it. It doesn't go into the actual model making process, since there's so many people using a lot of different programs for that. This explains how to use Jonwil's program for importing new models into the game.

I would suggest getting the MilkShape modeling program, it's $25.00 & is relatively easy to use.


Klinn's Tutorial (http://modstothemax.net/games/rct3/designersdatabase/klinn/tutorials/klinntut.zip)


MilkShape (http://www.swissquake.ch/chumbalum-soft/)

[JCat]

Thanks Jonwil for that listing, and Klinn -thank you for the excel version! :up:

[Theme Parker]

Well a texture you use for the objects. How can an object look so good and detailed, when you're only allowed to place a 256 color bitmap from 64x64 on your objects?

I think I getsomething wrong there?

[TrSH]

Thanks marnetmar :)

[TrSH]

how can I convert 3ds to ASE?
I'm doing a object with Anim8or

[2005]

Originally posted by Theme Parker
Well a texture you use for the objects. How can an object look so good and detailed, when you're only allowed to place a 256 color bitmap from 64x64 on your objects?

I think I getsomething wrong there?


no you can use any size, as long as its square. But for a repeating texture, you might as well use 32x32 and save the video card memory.

I don't know much about this but i think someone said 128x128 or 256x256 is the acceptable limit. 512x512 is possible - i've tried it - but theres no point wasting video memory for no reason.

For repeating textures even try 16x16 - every bit of memory saved is usful, just like every polygon is.


To convert .3ds to .ase use biturn. But you need to manually remove the root object section after.

[Theme Parker]

How can you make a good texture only using 256 colors?

[2005]

its not as bad as its sounds, but its not like you have a choice anyway.........

[ParsimoniousK8]

Someone gave me a link to this discussion and I'm very excited to see this is all possible, thank you Jonwill for your efforts. I'm a novice Max modeller, I create objects for the Sims 1&2 with it so I figured I could talk myself into giving this a try (love RCT!).
Just a question (I did grab some coffee and tried to get through this thread but I may have zoned out for a page or two in the middle) - I notice people are having texture mapping issues and seem to be using default texture mapping options which are just uber-pants, is this to make life easier or because its not possible to use a proper UV map tool? In other words, can I - if I spit out an .obj version in the model creation process, use UV Mapper pro to map my new item, import to .max... save as .ase... etc?
Someone also raised the unique filename issue, sorry again if this was in fact resolved mid-thread and I missed it, but a suggestion, if I may, the following convention is being used very sucessfully by thousands of simmers now creating meshes for objects and clothing, artistname_objectname_date - a couple of sites have taken it upon themselves to set up databases for creator names, but there's sufficient elements in that format that clashes are very unlikely.
Thanks
Kate

[jonwil]

Textures (not individual parts of a larger texture but the whole thing once combined) need to be square.
And they need to be a power of 2 in length/width.

i.e. 8x8, 16x16, 32x32, 64x64, 128x128, 256x256, 512x512.

[Klinn]

Welcome aboard ParsimoniousK8. Speaking only for myself. I was using the default texture mapping in Max just because I didn't know any better. :) None of my previous 3D work required use of UV mapping etc. As far as your process is concerned, the only way to be sure is to try.

Your suggested file naming scheme is fine, I don't have a particular preference, the important thing is for people to realize that they shouldn't just call their object "Wall" or "Support". ;)

Be prepared for a bit of frustration as you bring objects into RCT3, it can take some fiddling and tweaking before it finally works.

Have fun!

[Theme Parker]

Still not answered ...

How can you make such good textures with 256 colors ...

[2005]

256 colours is still a lot.

[tikitiki]

You confuse me!! :cry:

What are Memory Dumps?!?!?!

:D

Cheers Tikitiki

[2005]

the easiest way to make other textures is to take other peoples.

[d_h1234]

Originally posted by 2005
the easiest way to make other textures is to take other peoples.

And I suppose the easiest way to make models is to, take other peoples models?

Or, easiest way to write a book is to take other peoples stories.

Easiest way to get rich is to take other people's money.

Great lesson 2005. :rolleyes:


And as for the 256 colors, it's extremely easy to make a good looking texture with 'only' 256 colors. It's definately more than enough for this scale.

[marnetmar]

Originally posted by Theme Parker
Still not answered ...

How can you make such good textures with 256 colors ...


The best advice I can give you is to try & find the best quality pic for the texture you want. It can be a png, jpg, tga or bmp. You're going to lose some of the quality when converting to the 8bit bmp format no matter what, so the higher quality you have to start with the better it'll look in the end.
Also, a 256x256 is probably the size you'd want to have it in most cases. It doesn't have to be a huge pic just to cover a big model. You can map the faces seperatly & still have it come out ok. Here's an example below:

http://modstothemax.net/mttmcommunity/files/in_game_test_429.jpg
Building Test

This was done with a 256x256 texture file & each "set" of windows was mapped individually & although the quality isn't perfect (you can see some bad spots up close) It looks pretty good overall.

EDIT: You can do a search for textures on the net & probably find what you need. There are a lot of sites that have free texture files to download.

[d_h1234]

I wonder if it'd be a good idea to set up a 'model request' thread or something for anyone to put out an idea for something they'd like to have made..

Anyone have any thougts on that?

[2005]

thats what i meant.

I can't make textures so if someone puts textures on a website for free download might as well use them.........there are loads of sites that have them, mainly for noncomercial use, but i think that covers this.

i don't think requests are a good idea becasue its too limited what we can do right now. there would just be hundreds of silly requests.......

[marnetmar]

Originally posted by d_h1234
I wonder if it'd be a good idea to set up a 'model request' thread or something for anyone to put out an idea for something they'd like to have made..

Anyone have any thougts on that?

For those that are unable to make things for the game to request something is fine with me. That doesn't mean someone will make them, or if they do, when they will get made. I don't have any problem with someone suggesting something new for the game. There's a lot of good ideas floating around out there.

[marnetmar]

Originally posted by 2005
i don't think requests are a good idea becasue its too limited what we can do right now. there would just be hundreds of silly requests.......


At the moment, there are some limitations with Jonwil's program, but that doesn't mean we can't make something that we want. We're only limited by our imagination, if you want to make something for the game, you'll figure out a way to get it to work. Even with "hundreds of silly requests" you'll get some Great ideas that would be good for the game.

[2005]

didn't mean to be so negative, but i think a number of requests will be for stuff that might not be possible yet.

But i don't know it might work - why don't you start a new thread and try it now?


I suppose people can then pick what they want to make out of it.


Wouldn't a repeating texture only need to be much smaller than 256? wouldn't that save memory?

[bored_dude02]

Originally posted by d_h1234
I wonder if it'd be a good idea to set up a 'model request' thread or something for anyone to put out an idea for something they'd like to have made..

Anyone have any thougts on that?

*cough http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=465399 *cough*cough)

Sorry, i'm shamelessly pimping this idea. :p lol!

[marnetmar]

Originally posted by 2005
didn't mean to be so negative, but i think a number of requests will be for stuff that might not be possible yet.

As I said, we're only limited by our imagination. A couple of weeks or so ago, we had to use a single texture style for each model. Now we can use several, as long as they're on the same file.

Wouldn't a repeating texture only need to be much smaller than 256? wouldn't that save memory?

The texture file on that building has 2 textures on it, making them smaller would only reduce the quality more.

[marnetmar]

Originally posted by bored_dude02
*cough http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=465399 *cough*cough)

Sorry, i'm shamelessly pimping this idea. :p lol!


Are you having any luck with your models there Matt?

[2005]

i can't use the textures i think the information is lost in the conversion.

Any help on what exactly that process is though? Sounds a good idea but a bit complicated. i know nothing about textures.


EDIT: A8 does have UV mapping of some sort but i don't understand how you get two textures in one file correctly on the rct3 object?

The UV co-ord. are stored in the file but how do you get the texture wrapped to different faces?

[marnetmar]

Originally posted by 2005
i can't use the textures i think the information is lost in the conversion.

Any help on what exactly that process is though? Sounds a good idea but a bit complicated. i know nothing about textures.

You're using Anim8tor aren't you 2005? I have no idea about that program & what might be causing the problems for you.

The mapping can be complicated, but that's just part of doing it. If all there was to it was to just make a box or sphere & slap a texture on it, we'd have a lot of boring models out there.

[bored_dude02]

Originally posted by marnetmar
Are you having any luck with your models there Matt?

Nah not really. Im currently beta-testing and its not currently possible to import any user-created objects. Though i'm still designing some stuff in the hope that one day we can find a way....

[2005]

Originally posted by marnetmar
You're using Anim8tor aren't you 2005? I have no idea about that program & what might be causing the problems for you.

The mapping can be complicated, but that's just part of doing it. If all there was to it was to just make a box or sphere & slap a texture on it, we'd have a lot of boring models out there.


its not so much a problem as i don't know where to start. But at least tell me the process and i'll try. I do so much math for my degree this year, i have no problem with a few little co-ordinates. (probably regret posting that lol :) )


its just i don't know a lot about 3d model texturing.

[marnetmar]

Originally posted by bored_dude02
Nah not really. Im currently beta-testing and its not currently possible to import any user-created objects. Though i'm still designing some stuff in the hope that one day we can find a way....

Well don't give up Matt, we'll get the backdrops in, if you have some textures done you can send them to me if you want & I'll see what I can get made up with them.

[marnetmar]

Originally posted by 2005
its not so much a problem as i don't know where to start. But at least tell me the process and i'll try. I do so much math for my degree this year, i have no problem with a few little co-ordinates. (probably regret posting that lol :) )


its just i don't know a lot about 3d model texturing.

I know nothing about Anim8or ,but I'll guess it's similar to any other program & will let you map the faces or groups of faces seperately. That's what you need to do to get the textures applied the way you want them on different parts of the model.

EDIT: Does Anim8or have a Tutorial or help file with it?

[XPatrickX]

Originally posted by marnetmar
[B]Here's the Tutorial that Klinn posted in this thread awhile back, I saved it as a html file. All you have to do is unzip it to your desktop or wherever & double click on it to read it. It doesn't go into the actual model making process, since there's so many people using a lot of different programs for that. This explains how to use Jonwil's program for importing new models into the game.

[...]

Klinn's Tutorial (http://modstothemax.net/games/rct3/designersdatabase/klinn/tutorials/klinntut.zip)


[...]


Is it allowed to translate it into german?
Or is there any tutorial for german speakers?

[marnetmar]

Originally posted by XPatrickX
Is it allowed to translate it into german?
Or is there any tutorial for german speakers?

You can translate it into german if you like XPatrickX I don't speak german at all myself. You could use an online translator, but a few things might get lost in the translation process.

[2005]

Originally posted by marnetmar
I know nothing about Anim8or ,but I'll guess it's similar to any other program & will let you map the faces or groups of faces seperately. That's what you need to do to get the textures applied the way you want them on different parts of the model.

Yeah but how do i get rct3 to make the single texture look right in game?



Nah not really. Im currently beta-testing and its not currently possible to import any user-created objects. Though i'm still designing some stuff in the hope that one day we can find a way....

You mean they delibratly blocked this?

[Theme Parker]

You can use www.worldlingo.com, one of the best online translaters in the world (even downloadable for Microsoft Word 2000!!!). About the textures, when I use an almost white (little bit of yellow) texture, the object turns up as an clay-model?

[d_h1234]

Originally posted by 2005
Yeah but how do i get rct3 to make the single texture look right in game?

Just like he said, planar map each face/poly or group of faces/polys to whatever corresponding faces/polys on the texture.

[bored_dude02]

Originally posted by 2005
You mean they delibratly blocked this?
Dunno if it was deliberate, but it has been blocked. Thats all i'm gonna say on the subject. :cool:

[2005]

i know you can't say any more but DB or frontier any comment on this?

They must read this but they just don't reply. its so tedious, so after soaked we have to wait another 2 months to add scenery, whats the point in that.........puts me off buying soaked or any expansions when all this work just goes to waste. most companies support add ons.


Originally posted by d_h1234
Just like he said, planar map each face/poly or group of faces/polys to whatever corresponding faces/polys on the texture.


since i'm using mspaint can you be more specific about how i do that?

[marnetmar]

Originally posted by 2005
since i'm using mspaint can you be more specific about how i do that?

You have to apply the textures in the modeling program.

As for new objects not working with Soaked, I don't know that they are trying to block that. I would think if they didn't want that to happen, they would have done something long ago while Jonwil was working on his program to stop him from doing it.

[d_h1234]

this isnt the best example in the universe, but it should illustrate the methods artists use...its basically like breaking up a 256x256 (or 512x512 or whatever size) into smaller chunks, and those chunks are then mapped onto whatever polys the artist wants.

http://www.virtual-suicide.net/users/kiddie_grinder/mappingexample.jpg

you can see my 256x256 texture on the left, along with the UV layout. On the right is the model.

If you just wanted single plain colors for different parts of a mesh, then you could shrink the 256x256 down to 12x12 or something, as long as you shrunk the UVs accordingly.

[marnetmar]

Nice illustration d_h1234, That shows the idea very well I think. What modeling program is that?

[d_h1234]

Originally posted by marnetmar
Nice illustration d_h1234, That shows the idea very well I think. What modeling program is that?

thanks. Its 3d studio max, but as you said, the process is probably the same for any 3d app.

[marnetmar]

I think it's basically the same with any modeling program, I like that layout there where you can do all the mapping together. I'm used to Milkshape & you don't have that option, it's ok, but this looks like it would be a lot easier to do.

[2005]

dosn't that mean you have to get the object size exactly right though? to match the texture?

so you use different textures in the 3d program them combine them after? I don't see how the .bmp has any co-ord. information. (for when jonwils program adds the texture)

Maybe in 3d max you can split up the texture but in anim8or i think you can only have one texzture per face.

[d_h1234]

Originally posted by 2005
dosn't that mean you have to get the object size exactly right though? to match the texture?

so you use different textures in the 3d program them combine them after? I don't see how the .bmp has any co-ord. information. (for when jonwils program adds the texture)

Maybe in 3d max you can split up the texture but in anim8or i think you can only have one texzture per face.

no to the first part about object size, because in most 3d apps, you can easily scale UV coordinates on the fly.

and no they arent different textures, its one big one I made real quick in photoshop. File>new>256x256...then fill with black, then I painted the squares, added the text, and that was it, easy.

its not really 'splitting up the texture'. I think youre getting "texture" and "UVs" mixed up. youre right, you can only have one texture per face/poly. but that doesnt mean the TEXTURE cant have multiple FACES on it. see?

what I did is planar map each face seperately, then I moved the UVs for each face into position on my UVW editor (the big box on the left, with the texture and green boxes in it). And that was it, my UV map was finished.

[marnetmar]

Originally posted by 2005
dosn't that mean you have to get the object size exactly right though? to match the texture?

so you use different textures in the 3d program them combine them after? I don't see how the .bmp has any co-ord. information. (for when jonwils program adds the texture)

Maybe in 3d max you can split up the texture but in anim8or i think you can only have one texzture per face.

In the pic, there's only 1 texture per face. The textures have to be combined before you apply them to the model.

[2005]

i think i see, but if i make (part of) a texture too big or small would the 3d editor scale it to fit the face for a given part? or do you just have to guess it and edit it until its right?

EDIT: I just looked in anim8or makes more sense now you map the same large texture over and over again, what dosn't "fit" on the face just gets cut off around the edges. only not sure that if you make a texture too small (for a face) if anim8or will scale it up to fit, but thats not a huge problem. I guess the texture would have to be pretty small. Most textures would be big.

I still got to try it but if this works it could actually be fairly effective for small models.

[d_h1234]

Usually have to guess scale for UVs to match the texture. There are tricks (like applying a big checker texture), but they only help in making sure UV scale is universal across the model (and it's also good for seeing if the UV is being warped or stretched too much).

so yeah, its mostly guesswork (atleast for me)...make adjustments, check the model, see how it looks, go back, tweak UVs more, etc. etc.

[2005]

I'm not sure i want to put hours of work figuring this out if soaked is going to block objects as the release is only 2 months away.

[WalkingSnake]

Originally posted by 2005
I'm not sure i want to put hours of work figuring this out if soaked is going to block objects as the release is only 2 months away.

Who said Soaked will block the objects?

[d_h1234]

4th from the top, page 25.

[WalkingSnake]

Originally posted by d_h1234
4th from the top, page 25.

Ah, okay. Well, keep in mind, it's only the BETA version.

[marnetmar]

I'm not testing Soaked, but I think this is more of a case of someone getting errors from the new objects, rather than from the game itself trying to block anything.

[Klinn]

Howdy Folks - just an update on the search for re-colourable objects. I've figured out how the colour table works for the textures used on these kinds of objects. This means we can do multiple shades of the player-selected colour, i.e. a real texture, like the shingles on one of RCT3's roofs. The examples below shows various shades of their colours.


http://www.designamatic.com/Graphics/RCT3-CustomWall09.jpg


Yeah, it's not a very exciting texture, just a graduated colour, but it's progress. I hope to release a revised version of JonWil's program next week which allows you to do this. It needs a little more tweaking first.