A PON Screenshot and comment

[Smood]

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/screenshots_library/dir_298/vortal_pic_149248.jpg



Absolutely fantastic detail in morpheus's face here and head in general. But what is with the clothing? Those are some extremely poor textures. I know you can do better Shiny, so lets see it!

[Iron Surfer]

How do you know they haven't improved it since that screenshot was released?

I know, you say "Then lets see it." And I agree. We need to see some new footage or screens of this game in its current state. Which should pretty much be the finished state by now.

[Mattlab]

Soon....

[Iron Surfer]

Originally posted by Mattlab
Soon....

*holds breath* :eek:

[Pooeypants]

That's some fine PS2 quality textures.

[Smood]

Originally posted by Pooeypants
That's some fine PS2 quality textures.

Those are bad even for ps2. ;)

[Pooeypants]

I'm just wondering, surely they should build the game with the most detail starting from the highest spec platform and then reduce the detail as they go down (e.g. PC > Xbox > PS2). Isn't that just simple logic?

[ZeroPatience]

Well the textures on the face are superb which leads me to believe that the texture for the jacket would only be a preliminary one. Soo umm, don't release things with uncompleted textures on them *lextures devs*!!

Looking forwards to seeing at updated screenshot of 'ole Morph now or at least when I get to see him in-game :up:

- ZP

[Pyros]

Originally posted by Pooeypants
I'm just wondering, surely they should build the game with the most detail starting from the highest spec platform and then reduce the detail as they go down (e.g. PC > Xbox > PS2). Isn't that just simple logic?

I don't know about Path of Neo, but most games actually start off for the PS2, and then are ported to other systems.

[Pooeypants]

Originally posted by Pyros
I don't know about Path of Neo, but most games actually start off for the PS2, and then are ported to other systems. And they usually end up looking crap on the PC. I'm arguing that if they are to release for PC then at least make some high resolution textures and then scale down to fit for the current consoles. It doesn't make sense to do it the other way round...

[Iron Surfer]

Originally posted by Pooeypants
And they usually end up looking crap on the PC. I'm arguing that if they are to release for PC then at least make some high resolution textures and then scale down to fit for the current consoles. It doesn't make sense to do it the other way round...

It actually makes perfect sense. What if they make it first geared for a high end PC, then when they go to "scale it down", they realize that they can't get it to run on the PS2, or if they can, it looks like serious crap?

That's why they get it to look like gravy on the PS2 (yay for us!) and then they can port it to the higher spec systems and spruce it up IF THEY HAVE TIME. If they don't, then at least you have a game that looks great for a PS2 game, and still not all that bad on the higher systems.

[Pooeypants]

Originally posted by Iron Surfer
It actually makes perfect sense. What if they make it first geared for a high end PC, then when they go to "scale it down", they realize that they can't get it to run on the PS2, or if they can, it looks like serious crap?

That's why they get it to look like gravy on the PS2 (yay for us!) and then they can port it to the higher spec systems and spruce it up IF THEY HAVE TIME. If they don't, then at least you have a game that looks great for a PS2 game, and still not all that bad on the higher systems. It makes sense if you don't care about other formats other than the PS2. But then why bother porting over? I don't want a second rate game that looks like it's 3 years old (which most PS2 ported to PC games do). I did not pay many hundred pounds to build a machine so I can run PS2 grade graphics. It can be done properly like GTA:VC and especially San Andreas. I don't want consolified rubbish, I'm not expecting it to look like FEAR or Half Life 2 but I expect a certain amount of quality from a developer of this size.
To do otherwise is just being apologetically lame.

Why should I care if the game looks great on the PS2? It's a far outdated system, perhaps you need to see what the latest PC games graphics has to offer.

[Iron Surfer]

Originally posted by Pooeypants
It makes sense if you don't care about other formats other than the PS2. But then why bother porting over? I don't want a second rate game that looks like it's 3 years old (which most PS2 ported to PC games do). I did not pay many hundred pounds to build a machine so I can run PS2 grade graphics. It can be done properly like GTA:VC and especially San Andreas. I don't want consolified rubbish, I'm not expecting it to look like FEAR or Half Life 2 but I expect a certain amount of quality from a developer of this size.
To do otherwise is just being apologetically lame.

Why should I care if the game looks great on the PS2? It's a far outdated system, perhaps you need to see what the latest PC games graphics has to offer.

Well they COULD work to get it looking alot better on a high end PC, but would you want to wait the month or two it would probably take to increase the graphical quality? If you do, that's cool, but don't expect a game with concurrent release dates on all platforms to be much different in how they look.

And I have a PC, but it's not all that up to date. That's why I keep at least one current gen console, so I don't need to worry about upgrade after upgrade. And you don't have to care if the game looks great on the PS2, because the people that matter DO care.

[Pooeypants]

Yes, I would rather wait. Just look at San Andreas, we waited many, many months after PS2 release and they did a fantastic job porting to the PC; high res textures, increased viewing distance.
Same with Fable and that even has added content.

If they release the game on the PC then they might as well do a proper job, why sully their name? I bet if the situation was reversed (say if this game was released on the next gen), you'd be complaining instead of me.

[Iron Surfer]

Actually, the only thing I would complain about at this point was if it got delayed for any reason. I honestly wouldn't mind getting the same version as the lower end platform, given how good that is going to look by itself.

[Pooeypants]

With all due respect at the moment, the PS2 version looks just that, PS2 grade which is what PC games surpassed about 3 to 4 years ago.
But I think you're missing the point, what I actually said you was if they made a game that didn't reach the potential that easily could for your platform, you'd be quite disatisfied.
Put it another way, if they released the game with PS1 standard graphics, would you be annoyed or what?

[Iron Surfer]

I'm sure I would, but I would understand if they developed it on the PS1 and it still looked damn good for that system, and I might not want to wait for them to make it look better.

And yeah, of course it looks like a PS2 game, but it looks like one where they have maximized the capabilities of the system and it still looks damn good.

[ZeroPatience]

Okay, this should (hopefully) not be an issue. To take what they did with Fable... basically the texture artists made the textures, but to go on the consoles they had to condense the textures, so when they recently brought it out on the PC they used the same textures, just un-condensed. You see textures are usually made at a higher resolution than what they are when they are in the game (at least on modern consoles). So I would expect something similar to happen here.

As for other aspects of the game though, like the amount of polys that have gone into the characters and weapons, I wouldn't expect any improvements here, but this should hopefully not be an issue.

Also being on the PC the possiblity for Mods of the game are pretty terrific. I mean the models for Morpheus and Trinity (I could go on) are in the game so even if there is no SP section with them, someone could make one :) For the possiblities that mods bring to the PC version, that alone almost makes it worth buying :)

- ZP

[Pyros]

Originally posted by ZeroPatience
Okay, this should (hopefully) not be an issue. To take what they did with Fable... basically the texture artists made the textures, but to go on the consoles they had to condense the textures, so when they recently brought it out on the PC they used the same textures, just un-condensed. You see textures are usually made at a higher resolution than what they are when they are in the game (at least on modern consoles). So I would expect something similar to happen here.


Fable was created for the Xbox though. It's a lot more powerful than the PS2, I don't know if the PS2 would allow high res textures compressed like that.

[Pooeypants]

So why not create textures high resolution enough for the PC and then reduce level of detail as you work down the platforms?

[Pooeypants]

Originally posted by Iron Surfer
I'm sure I would, but I would understand if they developed it on the PS1 and it still looked damn good for that system, and I might not want to wait for them to make it look better.

And yeah, of course it looks like a PS2 game, but it looks like one where they have maximized the capabilities of the system and it still looks damn good. My point is that even if they maxed out for the PS2, it still looks crap on the PC. I did not pay a total of a grand for PS2 graphics at this day and age.

[Iron Surfer]

How can it look like crap on the PC if it looks great on the PS2 to begin with, unless they do a lousy port?

I don't doubt that it could look alot better on a high end PC, but you can't say it looks like crap on the PS2. Well, you could, but that's just your opinion. I think this game is shaping up to look great.

Besides, I'd play it on the PS2 even if I had a higher end PC, since the controls are going to be alot better.

[HannibalKing]

This is a console game first and foremost, people are lucky to even be getting this game for the PC.

[Pooeypants]

Originally posted by Iron Surfer
How can it look like crap on the PC if it looks great on the PS2 to begin with, unless they do a lousy port?

I don't doubt that it could look alot better on a high end PC, but you can't say it looks like crap on the PS2. Well, you could, but that's just your opinion. I think this game is shaping up to look great.

Besides, I'd play it on the PS2 even if I had a higher end PC, since the controls are going to be alot better. Erm, the resolution and other graphic capabilities of the modern PC far surpasses that of the PS2, it has done for the past 4 years or so.
I don't know where you've been but just check out games like Half Life 2, Doom 3 and the soon to be released FEAR. It's just a whole different world; so much more advanced. Even when the next gen consoles come out they'll only have the graphic edge for about a year.
So can a game that looks great on the PS2 look crap for the PC? Absolutely!! I mean, even an Xbox port can look bad, check out DX:IW, it took the Community to make high res textures so that the game doesn't look like the dog's backend!!

With regard to controls, there are plenty of good gamepads available for the PC. Infact, I have a PS2 to USB convertor 'cause I love the Sony Playstation controller.

[Pooeypants]

Originally posted by HannibalKing
This is a console game first and foremost, people are lucky to even be getting this game for the PC. My point is that if they release it for the PC then we should expect it to be satisfaction for the PC. Either that or we pay much less for the game.

[Iron Surfer]

Originally posted by Pooeypants
My point is that if they release it for the PC then we should expect it to be satisfaction for the PC. Either that or we pay much less for the game.

Actually, I have seen that PC ports of console games usually are a little cheaper. But for a game hyped as much as this one, I doubt it will be. At least not at first. It'll probably go down in price faster than the console versions, though, since PC games outdate faster (another reason I'm mainly a console gamer).

[Iron Surfer]

Originally posted by Pooeypants
Erm, the resolution and other graphic capabilities of the modern PC far surpasses that of the PS2, it has done for the past 4 years or so.
I don't know where you've been but just check out games like Half Life 2, Doom 3 and the soon to be released FEAR. It's just a whole different world; so much more advanced. Even when the next gen consoles come out they'll only have the graphic edge for about a year.
So can a game that looks great on the PS2 look crap for the PC? Absolutely!! I mean, even an Xbox port can look bad, check out DX:IW, it took the Community to make high res textures so that the game doesn't look like the dog's backend!!

With regard to controls, there are plenty of good gamepads available for the PC. Infact, I have a PS2 to USB convertor 'cause I love the Sony Playstation controller.

Three words:

GRAPHICS AREN'T EVERYTHING!

[Pooeypants]

Originally posted by Iron Surfer
Three words:

GRAPHICS AREN'T EVERYTHING! I agree, I'm not asking for the best. I'm not asking for directx 9 effects with HDR, parallax mapping and all that stuff (see Splinter Cell Chaos Theory for it) but I expect a certain quality. As it stands, most ports look like the dog's behind. Graphics don't make a game but they certainly are an integral part of it and better graphics lead to more immersion.
I think you really need to look at the games that the PC has to offer now and in the near future to see what you have been missing.

[ZeroPatience]

Originally posted by Pyros
Fable was created for the Xbox though. It's a lot more powerful than the PS2, I don't know if the PS2 would allow high res textures compressed like that.

The PS2 still uses textures which are basically just a graphics file like a JPEG, as does the XBOX. I see no reason why any texture can not be compressed to run on a less powerful system. If you are then talking about the similarities between the XBOX and the PC this again should not be a problem, this just makes the port easier; it doesn't affect the fact that textures can be compressed for PC to XBOX and not from PC to PS2 or vice versa when uncompressing them. Games are developed on a PC and it is to the best of my knowledge, good practice to make high resolution texutures first and then scale them down. The fact is while textures are made High Res, when they are then compressed they aren't as high a res as they were then :)

Hope that makes sense ;)

- ZP

[Iron Surfer]

Originally posted by Pooeypants
I agree, I'm not asking for the best. I'm not asking for directx 9 effects with HDR, parallax mapping and all that stuff (see Splinter Cell Chaos Theory for it) but I expect a certain quality. As it stands, most ports look like the dog's behind. Graphics don't make a game but they certainly are an integral part of it and better graphics lead to more immersion.
I think you really need to look at the games that the PC has to offer now and in the near future to see what you have been missing.

Trust me, I follow the games industry enough to know what is out there. I just don't have $1000 to spend on a machine powerful enough to run alot of these newer games, so I'll stick with the console that I only spent $150 on and still have games that I think look fine and entertain me greatly.

[Smood]

Originally posted by Iron Surfer
It actually makes perfect sense. What if they make it first geared for a high end PC, then when they go to "scale it down", they realize that they can't get it to run on the PS2, or if they can, it looks like serious crap?

That's why they get it to look like gravy on the PS2 (yay for us!) and then they can port it to the higher spec systems and spruce it up IF THEY HAVE TIME. If they don't, then at least you have a game that looks great for a PS2 game, and still not all that bad on the higher systems.

This is quite possibly the stupidest idea I have ever read on these forums (or at least up there).

It is almost like saying to a graphic designer, make the desktop in 800x600, then if you have time stretch it and scale it up and then clean it up for higher resolutions.

It is simply more logical and will result in better quality to make very high res source material and scale down to the degree required. Scaling down is FAR easier then scaling up as can be seen in the my above example. Just because you don't have money for system upgrades don't ruin it for the rest of the PC community who want to get out of this multiplatform game crap. BTW: PC gaming is and always will be superior.

[Pooeypants]

You know, I couldn't have put it better in words myself.

[Pooeypants]

Originally posted by Iron Surfer
Trust me, I follow the games industry enough to know what is out there. I just don't have $1000 to spend on a machine powerful enough to run alot of these newer games, so I'll stick with the console that I only spent $150 on and still have games that I think look fine and entertain me greatly. Well then, you'll understand that the people who do have the money to spend on a modern machine expects quality software to run on it.

[Iron Surfer]

You can call my ideas stupid all you want, but you are the guys whining that a port of a CONSOLE GAME looks like a CONSOLE GAME!!! DUH!!!!

[Pooeypants]

Originally posted by Iron Surfer
You can call my ideas stupid all you want, but you are the guys whining that a port of a CONSOLE GAME looks like a CONSOLE GAME!!! DUH!!!! Hey, I suggested a logical idea and you came up with the opposite. Now we've explained to you why your proposition is idiotic and all you can come up with is this? Rather lame isn't it?

[Iron Surfer]

I think a mod should lock this before I start to get nasty.

[Pooeypants]

Our debate was quite civil and now because you have lost your argument, you're looking for termination of this thread.
Just admit that you were wrong on the textures, that it is not a good idea to make low resolution ones and then try to blow it up.

[Iron Surfer]

Yep, calling me stupid and idiotic sure is civil.

Bottom line is that I don't care what this game is going to look like on the PC. If you don't like how it turns out, don't buy it or get it for a real game platform. End of discussion, as far as I'm concerned.

[Pyros]

Calm down guys. This place is for civil and reasonable discussion, not insults. Let's keep it clean, or I'll be forced to close this thread.

[HannibalKing]

Bottom line is that I don't care what this game is going to look like on the PC. If you don't like how it turns out, don't buy it or get it for a real game platform.

I think that about sums it up for my opinion on the matter.

Bottom line is, us argueing about this doesn't do a thing. For anyone who has problems, you have to take it up with the developers.

By the way, Pooeypants and Smood aren't Team Pessimism are they? That's not an insult guys, its just a question.

[Pooeypants]

If you don't care then why bother posting? You might accept low standards but we don't
You may call it pessimistic but when their lead Developer tells us that only one man has been given the job for porting...you prepare for the worst.

[Pyros]

Can anyone actually link me to the article about the PC port? I can't find it anywhere.

[Bowarcher]

Originally posted by Pyros
Can anyone actually link me to the article about the PC port? I can't find it anywhere.

If you're talking about the press release where Shiny announced a PC port, here it is (http://www.shiny.com/Flash/press/pr_021405.html). (Well, actually all they say is 'and the PC', but that still counts)

If Flash was never developed, game developers would actually have functioning websites without all the flashy crap. Imagine that. :bulb:

Edit: The PC is not a 'real game platform'? Congrats, Iron Surfer, you've made it into my list of funny quotes! :)

[HannibalKing]

If you don't care then why bother posting? You might accept low standards but we don't

Low standards? Because I don't have to have everything perfect for me to like it? You can't always get what you want. That's life, deal with it.

But don't expect the devs to be slaves to your needs and make everything perfect just for you.

Besides, you don't even know how this game will look on the computer at its highest settings. So you can't really complain about something you haven't seen and basing your argument of an old screenshot that's probably 5 months old isn't going to cut it.

So if listening, I would advise releasing a new screen devs, just to quiet some people down. I could care less whats released, I'm sold already. More stuff I see, the more I can't wait, but I do care about how well you guys are doing because you are creating a game that looks amazing in my eyes and I thank you for that.

[Alienjf]

Bowarcher :"Edit: The PC is not a 'real game platform'? Congrats, Iron Surfer, you've made it into my list of funny quotes!"

your right man!
i dont wanna strike when someone is down ,but game developpers dont develop game from cereal boxes...they do it on a PC that emulates the system spec of the targeted machine(PS2-Xbox-anyoneofthem)

PC rules all ,nuff said.

[HannibalKing]

The point is, consoles are made solely with games in mind. Computers, generally, are not.

They want this game to fit well across all platforms. Otherwise those without a top notch PC are alienated.

[Pyros]

Originally posted by Bowarcher
If you're talking about the press release where Shiny announced a PC port, here it is (http://www.shiny.com/Flash/press/pr_021405.html). (Well, actually all they say is 'and the PC', but that still counts)

No, people keep saying there is an interview where Shiny says only one person will be working on the PC port. I can't find it anywhere though.

[Pooeypants]

Originally posted by HannibalKing
Low standards? Because I don't have to have everything perfect for me to like it? You can't always get what you want. That's life, deal with it.

But don't expect the devs to be slaves to your needs and make everything perfect just for you.Strawman argument. I was not demanding the very best. I've already STATED that. I merely said that I wish they'd make high resolution textures worthy for the PC and then scale down as they get to the lesser systems. Let's face it, the PS2 can't handle much detail and it's a real fact. I'm just saying that if they want to release it on the PC then it should look the part, like a modern game.

PCs may not be made with solely games in mind but you'll find a lot of people out there now, like me who build their rig to be just that, gaming machines with added extra such as net browsing and Media works. This isn't the past, PC gaming is huge, Nvidia and ATi are still growing. Try to keep up with the news.

[HannibalKing]

Seriously guys, I don't want to fight, partly because when you're not arguing face to face, you gain some courage and no one will ever back down from what they believe. Quite frankly, arguments will never end. It's just that there are certain circumstances that change how you must look at this things.

If this game was made specifically for the computer and ported to other consoles, I wouldn't have a problem with your opinions, but this game was made for the PS2, not the PC or Xbox. The port to the other systems is just an added bonus and a bonus I thank them for. I own an Xbox, not a PS2, but I accept the fact that its not as great as it could be because I realize this.

Oh and I do keep up with the news.

[Pooeypants]

I'm just talking about simple logic. It is relatively simple to create high resolution textures, just look at the DX community and what they did for Invisible Wars. Or the Morrowind fans...mere amateurs compared to the artists they have employed at Shiny Entertainment.
Don't be so apologetic, just because you demand more than they can deliver doesn't mean we're being greedy, you're just showing that you demand better quality products. If the developers think otherwise they will start slacking.

[HannibalKing]

Well, I'm done. Nothing is going to change, those dissapointed just have to accept that fact.

Who is to say people have to be disappointed though? We can't rush to judgement until we know all the facts.

[Pooeypants]

Such actions lead to stagnation. If that is what you wish...

[HannibalKing]

Well, I'm sure others will continue the fight.

I need to save my energy because I have more pressing matters coming up, like the Yankees-Angels game. Just watching these games makes me feel drained.

Because with the Yankees, you just look at the name, and like Superman, you either love em or you hate em. (I'm a Superman fan, so I tend to notice how many people hate Superman just because of the name.) So even though I hate the Yankees, I'm starting to have a better view of them now, because I know how it feels to have something you love so much be alienated by the rest of the world.

[Pyros]

Okay, now we're just fighting for the sake of fighting. Let's end it here.