Titan too good ?

[GeneralGonzo]

So I tested a few games today with/against the titan launcher (or rainbow =?):

- only defense against them for TFT are buggys, spinner and tower - shields don´t work against them in mini gun mode !!!!

- they make too much splash damage: i attacked a group with about 10 shields, 2 missiles hit my group - all destroyed

- they should cost something per missile: unlimited ammo is unrealisitc and will end in spamming those missiles all over the map, as they can reach every corner.

- they reload too fast after launching/destroying a missile, make them either cost something per shot or the increase the reload phase; so attacking them from the back with mercs didn´t work, as they just need one or two of those missiles to hit to destroy all T-80´s !!!!


Something need to be done to those units, so they are a bit too powerful i think ! Imagine what CST shall do against them ..... ?!!?

[Damn_Dirty_Ape]

This was discussed since the beta, thing is they are very easily destroyed in the later part of the game where your opponent has decent AA. Spamming them is the only way for them to be effective, the real thing you should worry is mrls they are deadly now.

Also shields are weak as hell, if they're clutterd together 2 missiles should destroy them imho.

[GeneralGonzo]

I was in the beta too Dirty and know the awesome artillery ranges....

But imagine CST - what shall they do against that spamming? You need to build 10 or more tower to have a working defense against about 5 launcher. I don´t want to spend all my money in towers and power output just to defend massing missiles.....that can´t be the idea behind that, or ???

[Damn_Dirty_Ape]

I didn't see your name at first m8 :)

Well the rainbows are really effective on larger maps, 1 on 1 they get eaten by air raids and enemy artillery. My experience at least, I actually didn't find them that usefull. Sure they can take out some enemies or structures but if the other guy has counter artillery radar.. which they always have.. I have planes or whatnot after them in 10 seconds meaning I have to keep them on the move constantly.

They aren't really that overpowerd, are they? I'd rather buy a spinner atm.

[GeneralGonzo]

In a 2on2 game I often wncounter one guy massing rainbows while the other support from ground. He had about 20 or more launcher due to resource sharing on and bombed out easily the bases, which only had some defense - not a ton of turrets !

Is that meant the way to go then ? I guee then im out with that game - has nothing to do with strategic anymore....

[Hellswaters]

Were only getting one army. Both the US and CST have a cheap, and effective AA unit, which will probily be VERY effective vs TACIT RAINBOW. Has anyone also played on the 1v1 map and accualy gotten to TACIT RAINBOW also.

[KingsRevenge]

They may need a longer reload rate. I had one guy fast tech up to them on me cause i was in an FFA 3 ways nad they both decided to attack me. The guy ahd one and was able to tear up my base, maybe the missle could be slower as well.

[lizardmech]

The best thing to do is use spotters for your AA, the AA can shoot them down from along way away but only if you can see the missiles. I found leaving a perimiter of infantry and stealth units out side my base enabled my AA to shoot down about 2x as many incomming missiles.

[lizardmech]

I think they might need to be nerfed vs units, today I played a 2v1 game and one of the players did the usual titan spam, my base AA held against about 10 titans for a fair while but after about 10 mins he realized my base buildings were too far back and targeted my buggies. As soon as he put a hole in my AA he destroyed about half my base in a matter of seconds but I managed to get more AA and it was ok. Then I decided I would attack his base and titans. You would think it would be relatively easy to attack his base, it consisted of: no turrets about 20 buggies to provide AA and 10 or so titans. The first attack I tried was 12 shields dropped in the back of his base, they managed to destroy about 2 buggies and 2 titans before all 12 were killed by 2 or 3 titan missiles, I tried it 2 more times to see if it was a fluke but the same thing happend. I then built a large amount of spinners 8-12 or so and sent them ahead of the shields, all that survived were 2 spinners. The 10 titans and few remaining buggies managed to kill 12 shields + 6-10 spinners all while fighting at the close range the tanks use, the titans didn't even begin firing at the tanks until they were under attack.

Basically the titans can even sometimes win close range battles with groups of tanks. I could have perhaps spread my units out more as they attacked but it would have led to them attacking buildings rather than the titans.

[Hellswaters]

right now, i think the titan is fine. Both the US and CSM have, IMO better AA and would beable to withhold a attack by titans. Then with the counter arty radar, you can find were there are, and use your arty vs them. (A few MRLS/Pirahana, with a couple AA and antiground should be able to do the trick.) However, if people think that it is OP'ed, make its so that it needs the Shield, Drone, and airtower (there close enough to a antiground fighter.) That should delay you long enough for there research.

[Marilyn Yeltsin]

Titans are not overpowered. Many people would say this.

[Marilyn Yeltsin]

Well, probably developers should make those missiles visible after you purchase control tower upgrade.

[GeneralGonzo]

As I mentioned above, just increase the reload time of those titans and it would be a good unit to SUPPORT, not to just spam as the only unit for TFT!

I agree, that maybe the artillery units from CST and US good work well against Titans, but what about TFT mirror as the are in the beta ? There´s hardly a counter unit for a well defended TFT base with turrets and maybe a handful spinner and tthen spamming mass Titans. What shall a TFT player do against that strat ?

[sgt deacon]

How good was the pindorah in the beta. I have tryed with the smerch units and they seem like the mlrs, just the advantage that the mlrs have is since they fire like 3-5 missles before having to reload (not sure) they basicaly hit everything in that circle. As for the consortium the pindorah seems like just a artilary and based on the inaccuracy of the smerch units it would seem that it would be unaffective since the bullets travel slow and you only get 1 bullet compared to the U.S 3-5 missles. Also the tungaskas are probly good against the missles. But i have something that i tryed with the titans and it worked very effectively, if you get a lot just bombard a base for a while then you press stop self destruct all the missles shoot them off and then have them fly around a base you can have evade the massive anti aircraft fire probably at the previously bombarded position.

[Marilyn Yeltsin]

Titan spam is totally useess in 1x1 matches, but i have played 2x2 recently, and thats why i have suggested aircraft radar. By the way MLRS fires 4 rockets per salvo, TOS-1 - around 9-10 rockets. Quite an advantage.

[GeneralGonzo]

I´m so fed up !!!!

I played today 3 FFA´s and 2 2on2 in the demo.

So what happened all the time: at least one player turtled in just spamming titans. Some of them then had about 10-15 Titans, which attacked my base one wave after the other. I had turrets and buggys but guess what: they all shoot on the first coming missile and so on, so that every second wave siome missiles came through and destroyed many buggys or turrets.

If there is no change or patch for release, HT will get such a boring game, because I already see manymany US player using the same strat with the MLRS launchers.
And no, there was no chance to destroy those launchers, because his base with all over with turrets......

This way i´m not gonna love the game.....

[STCAB]

Humm... TFT could use a good AA.

Does anyone know how well the Merc AA work against titans.

[lizardmech]

I´m so fed up !!!!

I played today 3 FFA´s and 2 2on2 in the demo.

So what happened all the time: at least one player turtled in just spamming titans. Some of them then had about 10-15 Titans, which attacked my base one wave after the other. I had turrets and buggys but guess what: they all shoot on the first coming missile and so on, so that every second wave siome missiles came through and destroyed many buggys or turrets.

If there is no change or patch for release, HT will get such a boring game, because I already see manymany US player using the same strat with the MLRS launchers.
And no, there was no chance to destroy those launchers, because his base with all over with turrets......

This way i´m not gonna love the game.....
I think the 2v2 map that came with the demo is especialy bad for titans due to the fact the main bases are so close together and just seperated by cliffs. On a map where the start positions are in the corners it would be much easier to spread out some better AA. That being said they are abit annoying and they seem to be able to fight things at close range much better than an artillery unit probably should be able to.

[Damn_Dirty_Ape]

Can't we just give them a range limit then like all the other arti vehicles so you can't ***** them in your main base?

[PqLear]

So what happened all the time: at least one player turtled in just spamming titans. Some of them then had about 10-15 Titans, which attacked my base one wave after the other. I had turrets and buggys but guess what: they all shoot on the first coming missile and so on, so that every second wave some missiles came through and destroyed many buggys or turrets.I suggest you try and spread out your AA in several "layers of protection", don't put all of it in the front line. ONE missile from a turret or Buggy is enough to kill one Titan; stagger their range of fire/vision and you'll notice the difference.

I played a game last night with 3 humans and one empty slot. I thought I'd let the "potential consumers" :) have most of the fun while I just sat back and turtled up. Guess what; within 20 minutes one of the guys had killed the other AND occupied the empty base AND captured the mega bank in the center. He started building Titans and the game lasted about an hour while I did nothing offensively at all, just maintained my defenses against what eventually amounted to about 20 Titans and simultaneous attacks by 9 YF-23s and the Su-27 and Su-25 mercenaries. I think I killed a total of around $100,000 worth of his mercenaries (mostly T-80s with a squad of 3 Comanches ;)), but since I only had one POW, of course, eventually I lost -- but not because of the Titans, but because I ran out of money to maintain my defenses, and because I never even bothered to build a decent mixed attack force. Anyway. It was a fun game!

Also, keep this in mind: the demo only allows one possible match-up out of six (US v US, CS v CS, TFT v TFT, US v CS, US v TFT, CS v TFT), and the Task Force Talon has the worst AA capabilities of the three factions. It's inevitable that some weapons will be more powerful in certain match-ups -- that's part of the tactics. If you end up in TFT v TFT; plan for it. If he can build 10-15 Titans - so can you.

[GeneralGonzo]

Also, keep this in mind: the demo only allows one possible match-up out of six (US v US, CS v CS, TFT v TFT, US v CS, US v TFT, CS v TFT), and the Task Force Talon has the worst AA capabilities of the three factions. It's inevitable that some weapons will be more powerful in certain match-ups -- that's part of the tactics. If you end up in TFT v TFT; plan for it. If he can build 10-15 Titans - so can you.

You are right, the demo just offers mirror games on one map, which is in favour of artillery units due to the short range to the next main base and the fact, that you can´t put AA units "in front" of your base, cause there´s the valley.

But I hope that the maximum range from the titans won´t be a problem in the retail version.

The rest is nice as it is. Good job here!

[Agamemnus]

It's just another way of playing. Act of War is a dice game. Even if you play the dice correctly, it's still dice and it has been dice before. The best defense is a good offense.. before the enemy gets those 10 missile launchers run in and blow them up with tanks..

[DerPapierTiger]

It's just another way of playing. Act of War is a dice game. Even if you play the dice correctly, it's still dice and it has been dice before. The best defense is a good offense.. before the enemy gets those 10 missile launchers run in and blow them up with tanks..

The best defense is offense. So in other words, attack him before he attacks you with a gazillion titans. Think about it, 4k per titan, plus the needed $9000 to research both tech trees... That's around $49000 for 10 titans. Enough for a really big force to wipe him out. :)

[blahdy]

I suggest you try and spread out your AA in several "layers of protection", don't put all of it in the front line. ONE missile from a turret or Buggy is enough to kill one Titan; stagger their range of fire/vision and you'll notice the difference.


Only problem with that approach is you can easily penetrate a hole through the AA defense layer by simply overwhelmingly sending about 10-15 titan missles _at_once_ to the group of turrets/AA units. Since turrets and AA units engage the first missle all at the same time, by the time they finish reloading to engage the next missle (which would be 14 of them if you sent 15 all at once), it's already too late :) Since missles don't cost anything, it's piece of cake to break the base after you put a hole thru the AA defense.

Perhaps a better intelligence for AA units would be nice, where they can attack multiple targets in a coordinated, distributed manner; that is instead of all AA units attacking a single titan missle, spread out the attack targets to several others.

But then again, doing some online plays, you too can indeed build many tacit-rainbow launchers as you want. By the time your enemy starts raining your base with titan missiles, so can you, and now the game turns into missile fight, pretty fun actually :)

One tactic I did after my AA defense didn't hold up was simply evacuate bunch of drone constructors to some remote location nobody knows and build another FOC and spinner cmd. center there to produce more titan launchers. Once I had multiple locations to launch titans from with structures spread out in different locations, I had more tactical advantage to bring down the enemy.

[Agamemnus]

>Perhaps a better intelligence for AA units would be nice, where they can attack multiple targets in a coordinated, distributed manner; that is instead of all AA units attacking a single titan missle, spread out the attack targets to several others.

I am disappointed that this has not been addressed.

Ideas:

*Make the Rainbow range a donut shape so they can't target units near them.
*Make anti-unit hit less powerful....
*Give the missiles a timer before they run out of fuel and fall (no collateral damage).
*Do not allow more than X missiles to be flying over a certain area or something like that. The defender must defend over a limited airspace, versus the attacker getting much bigger attack room, and also the attacker can "group" missiles in one big punch (much deadlier) instead of a stream of missiles...

[PqLear]

Only problem with that approach is you can easily penetrate a hole through the AA defense layer by simply overwhelmingly sending about 10-15 titan missles _at_once_ to the group of turrets/AA units. Since turrets and AA units engage the first missle all at the same time, by the time they finish reloading to engage the next missle (which would be 14 of them if you sent 15 all at once), it's already too late :) Since missles don't cost anything, it's piece of cake to break the base after you put a hole thru the AA defense.Well even on a tight map like Deep Valley you can easily rebuild those defenses before the next Titan wave arrives.

Perhaps a better intelligence for AA units would be nice, where they can attack multiple targets in a coordinated, distributed manner; that is instead of all AA units attacking a single titan missle, spread out the attack targets to several others. I believe this would lead to just as much frustration, as there's really no way of knowing how many AA missiles are required to bring down an incoming target. Imagine the case where your five turrets fire at five different targets, and doesn't shoot down a single one of them? (Besides if your opponent has 10-15 Titans, this modified AI behaviour wouldn't make a difference anyway...!)

The current system is also actually a good reflection of reality -- on the real battlefields, AA units will only prioritize targets based on their mission; choppers and CAS if supporting infantry, prioritizing bombers if protecting an installation, etc. In pretty much all situations though, any AA unit will always open fire at any valid target -- they would never hold their fire because someone else already opened fire. Only when they have several valid targets at once would the platoon commander prioritize the biggest threat to their protection objective -- and since all platoon commanders go through the same threat assessment process -- they'll all fire at the same target.

Anyway bottom line I guess is I can assure you the designers at Eugen have tried all different alternatives and possibilities and gone for the one that's most in the spirit of the game in terms of playability, fun, and realism.

But then again, doing some online plays, you too can indeed build many tacit-rainbow launchers as you want. By the time your enemy starts raining your base with titan missiles, so can you, and now the game turns into missile fight, pretty fun actually :)Agree. Again this is just something you need to keep in mind when you're playing Task Force; your AA is a bit dodgy and you can't rely too much on turrets. With the US Army and Consortium (who both have infantry SAM units that are kinda immune to Titans), and the Consortium's Tunguskas and the US Army's Apaches, the Titan threat is more manageable (also you'll notice with the US Army's and Consortium's long range artillery, the Titans will have to move further away from their targets = lower rate of fire).

One tactic I did after my AA defense didn't hold up was simply evacuate bunch of drone constructors to some remote location nobody knows and build another FOC and spinner cmd. center there to produce more titan launchers. Once I had multiple locations to launch titans from with structures spread out in different locations, I had more tactical advantage to bring down the enemy.Good thinking!

[Marilyn Yeltsin]

I apologize for offtopic (just do not want to start a new thread), but PqLear, what can you say about OCSWs? Basically it's their range that makes me feel they are overpowered. You can not even take em out with snipers, and furthermore, after you gain OCSWs snipers loose their purpose.

[PqLear]

I apologize for offtopic (just do not want to start a new thread), but PqLear, what can you say about OCSWs? Basically it's their range that makes me feel they are overpowered. You can not even take em out with snipers, and furthermore, after you gain OCSWs snipers loose their purpose.OCSWs can't ambush or occupy buildings, so Snipers can be more efficient in some situations. Also 2-3 Snipers will take out an enemy light vehicle faster than 2-3 OCSWs will.

I don't feel OCSWs are overpowered at all. You can easily repel even large groups of them with just one or two artillery units; OCSWs need to be supported by their own artillery, armor or choppers (or whatever else can counter those mortars) to be really useful.

You'll notice all these dynamics change around anyway when you get to try these new units against the US Army and the Consortium, too.

[Hellswaters]

OCSW range is also shorter than a sniper. Put a sniper prone, and that allows you to kill 1 or 2 OCSW

[blahdy]

The current system is also actually a good reflection of reality -- on the real battlefields, AA units will only prioritize targets based on their mission; choppers and CAS if supporting infantry, prioritizing bombers if protecting an installation, etc. In pretty much all situations though, any AA unit will always open fire at any valid target -- they would never hold their fire because someone else already opened fire. Only when they have several valid targets at once would the platoon commander prioritize the biggest threat to their protection objective -- and since all platoon commanders go through the same threat assessment process -- they'll all fire at the same target

yup, you're right.

BTW, on an unrelated note..

If you use the cheat code 'ineedalltechnos' in engagement in the demo, you can get access to illegal merc units, including that TOS1. The TOS is quite hilarious. A single TOS unit seems like 3x the power of an MLRS and the voice acting while enemy base is being blown is just funny :)

[Marilyn Yeltsin]

OCSW range is also shorter than a sniper. Put a sniper prone, and that allows you to kill 1 or 2 OCSW
No, OCSW and snipers have exactly the same range, plus sniper reloads first, and shoot only after (wtf). I have used 2 snipers against OCSW and it effectively killed both of my snipers, and they didn't even had a chance to fire. What would happend if they were in prone position? I guess they would be able to damage OCSW, but not to destroy it.

PS Believe it or not, but yesterday somebody tried to use titan spam against me on the naval map.

[Silentscoper]

PS Believe it or not, but yesterday somebody tried to use titan spam against me on the naval map.

Funny that, but almost every game I've played against another person on the Naval map online has spammed those f'n Tacit rockets against me, some good AA Turrets, and other AA unit placement soon held them at bay. (Spinners, Buggies, Planes, planes are good cause they seem to increase the spotting range if you keep making them fly over your base, which helps the other AA units fire at them sooner)

[Nacho6]

i personally don't find spamming of anything to be a problem.

all the stories i hear from people giving examples of the Titans being too strong are telling stories about "well, i attacked with 20 shield units...."

this isn't C&C guys. you gotta have mixed units in order to win anything. the thing i love about AoW is that i can use a force about half the size of the enemy force and still win. just like in real life.

if someone builds 30 spinners, great. someone builds 30 titans, that's cool. build 30 aircraft. that's good too. as long as you build only 1 unit type and spam me, i will always win.

that's why i was a horrible C&C player and that's why out of the last 8 games of AoW i've played, i've lost once. very rarely do people mix unit types. the vast majority i see build 50 of the same unit type, try to attack, and when they don't bust through, they surrender. do you know how long it's been since i've seen an attack with mainly tanks that had ANY infantry with them? hardly ever.

heh. i type this like someone is actually gonna listen to me. i know you guys are just gonna keep building the same thing 100 times.

[Hero_Aadam]

TFT suck anyway ppl play CON for all games unless u know its 15mins no rush/sw then take USA ... TFT = bad man

u rush 4 tanks ok np 1 bomb truck
u rush 4 tanks 1 not upgrade +2 tft men ok np 2 fat-v +merco = all dead

PS TFT = need really new new units/building

[STCAB]

heh. i type this like someone is actually gonna listen to me. i know you guys are just gonna keep building the same thing 100 times.
Give it up nacho, you can't train noobs :D :up:

[Nacho6]

Give it up nacho, you can't train noobs :D :up:

perfect example. played tonight again. the same guy twice.

the first time, he builds about 40 titans. he does some damage. sinks 2 USS San Antonios, 2 seawolfs and a DDX. eventually my FA -35s took em out and then he surrenders.

i asked him if he used to play C&C Generals. he says "yeah, how can you tell?" i said "because you tried to expand on the middle and you built 4 barracks and about 20 heavy snipers with no support. then on the mainland, you built 40 titans with no support. that works great in Generals, but not here."

the very next game we play, he builds 5 air towers and nothing but aircraft. in less than 10 minutes he surrendered again.

what is it with these guys?

[DaBiggy]

In a 1on1 the Titans are too weak.
Really!!!
I played Bloody Marina against SKSUS and i build some of them, but they are so easy to counter, that its a waste of money to build them!!
If you attack you opponent often, he hasnt got the money to build titans.
If he has, you did something wrong and should be glad, that he uses titans, instead of spinner, which are with upgrade much more effective!!

[MarkW]

Were only getting one army. Both the US and CST have a cheap, and effective AA unit, which will probily be VERY effective vs TACIT RAINBOW. Has anyone also played on the 1v1 map and accualy gotten to TACIT RAINBOW also.


Please do me the favour and try to stop a TFT Player, who has got 25 Tacits and so many AA, that no plane has a chance to come through. It is simply impossible!!

You are right, the AA are cheap, but their AI doesn't work against Tacits. The problem is, that all your AAs fire at the first Tacits, who come in sight, AT THE SAME TIME. So, when the rest comes, let's say about 20 your whole bunch of AAs are reloading and therefore completely useless.

The developers either have to change the AI of the AAs so that every one of them fires at a different Tacit, or they have to give the TFT a new artillery similar to MLRS or Piranha

[Salsifi]

One tunguska for four titans ... this is the ratio that save you...

[Nacho6]

Please do me the favour and try to stop a TFT Player, who has got 25 Tacits and so many AA, that no plane has a chance to come through. It is simply impossible!!

wanna know how to stop em? don't let the enemy build 25 titans. that's ridiculous. how much does that cost? $75,000? if you think i'm gona let the enemy get $75,000 just so he can build Titans, you should think again.

if the enemy has time to save up that much money and pump out a long range tank unit, then that means you're not doing your job by keeping the heat on him and forcing him to buy less expensive units and buy more diverse units.

he deserves to win, and you deserve to lose.

[blahdy]

Please do me the favour and try to stop a TFT Player, who has got 25 Tacits and so many AA, that no plane has a chance to come through. It is simply impossible!!

You are right, the AA are cheap, but their AI doesn't work against Tacits. The problem is, that all your AAs fire at the first Tacits, who come in sight, AT THE SAME TIME. So, when the rest comes, let's say about 20 your whole bunch of AAs are reloading and therefore completely useless.

The developers either have to change the AI of the AAs so that every one of them fires at a different Tacit, or they have to give the TFT a new artillery similar to MLRS or Piranha


I have a good idea for next sequal to Act of War.

Add a new building unit that you can install after you research to higher tech level: Fire Control Radar (FCR)

Once you install the building, all defense turrets surrounding the FCR in a limited circular area (just like the range for electronic fighting vehicle) will have coordinated targetting to all incoming air threats. Each turret will be assigned of their incoming threat target, so the more turrets you have surrounding the FCR, the more distributed your anti-aircraft fire will become, effectively making 'spamming' useless. This is realistic too..

obviously i think only defense turrets and may be ballistic defense (to defend from ballistic weapon spamming in high-resource maps) should be able to use the FCR. I dont think normal human-based AA (i.e. stinger) or vehicles should be able to use the FCR, as it would make it too powerful.

[Salsifi]

wanna know how to stop em? don't let the enemy build 25 titans. that's ridiculous. how much does that cost? $75,000? if you think i'm gona let the enemy get $75,000 just so he can build Titans, you should think again.

if the enemy has time to save up that much money and pump out a long range tank unit, then that means you're not doing your job by keeping the heat on him and forcing him to buy less expensive units and buy more diverse units.

he deserves to win, and you deserve to lose.

If you read the whole thread, you saw that we already discussed this thing... if you play in teams, one player can build several rainbows without problems.

[Nacho6]

If you read the whole thread, you saw that we already discussed this thing... if you play in teams, one player can build several rainbows without problems.


but one player can't defend himself and his partner alone. again, this is due to players not being aggressive enough.

i can tell due to the surrender times. when i make a commitment to hit em fast and hard and don't let up, they almost always surrender. why? because they aren't used to constant attacks because people aren't doing it. they are turtling up and sitting there and complaining about the rainbows.

in order to get em, you have to have Drone tech, shield tech and the spinner control center.

buddy, if you've gotten that far, then you're a great player because i would be forcing you to crank out Strykers and men non stop from minute 1. your tankers would be constantly under attack and there would always be someone at your front door.

so tell me. with all of this going on, what makes you think you could build 20 titans?

[Warnstaff]

Nacho, you do have a point there :)

I think that alot of people tend to want to turtle, and with TFT as your opponent, turtling isn't really an option, as they can get titans very fast when not under pressure. I've been playing games for most of my life, and I've found that games with a late game unit that can be absolutly devestating are often won by simply being extremely aggresive, attacking resources, taking out production buildings with "suicide" units (go in there, kill the building, but be trapped). This works on mostgames with at least a little balance.

I should point out that when I say aggresive, I mean throwing everything, including the kitchen sink at the enemy, but have to be smart about it, don't just set rally points into the enemy bases and hope.

[Nacho6]

I should point out that when I say aggresive, I mean throwing everything, including the kitchen sink at the enemy, but have to be smart about it, don't just set rally points into the enemy bases and hope.

even that would be better than what some of these guys do.

true story. i do this on rare occasions. when i see that my enemy is making zero effort to attack me, i will actually go downstairs, make a sandwich, then bring it back upstairs to find my base and all of my units in tact.

i was playing the demo last week and i even told the guy "i'm going to make some food. just attack me whenever you want. i hope i make it back in time."

i came back and he had not even made an attempt on my base.

i come from the online days of Red Alert. real carnage and real aggressive playing. TA made it even more intense. for some reason now a days, it seems like guys are afraid to fight, or afraid to lose units or something. even in Direct Action, i would see people mass spiner drones and use them.

we're not playin SimCity guys. people are gonna die. now please, get out there and fight back for a change so i don't fall asleep at the wheel anymore.

[Marilyn Yeltsin]

I haven't played demo for long, and had no chance to play 2v2 games with both teammate and enermies good. But in 1v1 games i have beaten several players, who tended to turtle with titans. Probably just the same goes for 2v2, you guys could have a point there.

[Salsifi]

No tend to turtle, just good mates... with good players in 3vs3 for example, one can tech easily without problems.

Rush rush rush, with this if you fail you are dead.