My ride on Goliath (SFoG)

[Beldin]

I made a short video of the ride. You can download it here (http://68.209.88.219/six_flags_2006/). It's an 18.6MB WMV file. Enjoy. I certainly did! :)

[Matandmel05]

Sweet! I know it was hot as h-e-double hockey sticks that day!

[soundgodz]

Looks great.

[Beldin]

I've also got the video posted on Google Videos. Here's the link to that:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1717295821547470197&q=belgarath

[David Ellis]

I was very impressed with Goliath when I rode it Monday. About 22.5 seconds of airtime, very floaty and fun. Very re-rideable, although it is difficult to rate it against other coasters as it is almost "too smooth"...it seems to lack something, that feeling that you have survived. Can something be so well built that it becomes a negative point? An interesting issue.

David.

[soundgodz]

David, some of what you suffered was that dreaded "B&M new coaster ride". It's kind of like that new Murano I brought home the other day. It's just factory tight. I remember Hulk when it first opened, it was so smooth. So were the Dragons. But after they broke in for a few years, the roughness crept up. As will that new car. I hope my drivel made sense.

On reflection: maybe this Goliath is a perfectly balanced machine? You ask if a too perfect coaster is a bad thing. I haven't ridden it, but I'm using my memories of Nitro, Apollo's Chariot, and Raging Bull to imagine Goliath. I can almost picture this train gliding along, the track making that characteristic B&M roar. All of the forces of gravity balance as you soar over the park entrance. Damn, I gotta get up there this summer.

[Squid2]

Well, when Bollinger calls it "The best coaster I've ever built" it's got to be good. And, for me, it is the best coaster I've ever been on. Nice, smooth, just a little roughness at the bottom of drops one and two.

However, nothing beats the pitch black rides I just got on Apollo's Chariot. Nothing like not being able to see the bottom of the 1st drop.

Goliath - Best overall coaster
Apollo's Chariot - Best night rides

Squid2

[soundgodz]

Walter said it's his best? Delta counter, here I come!!!

[TheSkipper]

Well, the first link is real slow, the Google one wants me to install another player. I gonna pass.....

[Squid2]

Yep, Walter said it's his best coaster. At first, he said that there's only one thing he would change, (which was the very last hill, located in front of the brakes,) but then he changed his mind and said it's the best he's ever built. And no, we don't mean the best hyper he's built... the best, period. It really feels incredible.

So, soundgodz, when are you coming down? I'll come and give you the grand tour of the park, if you want.

Squid2

[Beldin]

Um.... The google player (as far as I know) just uses Flash. You could try the one that I've got on myspace. I know for sure that it only requires Flash 8:

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoID=832834070&n=2&Mytoken=147F92B1-F243-EA72-3A7414A289F52ABC5366571

Well, the first link is real slow, the Google one wants me to install another player. I gonna pass.....

[soundgodz]

Squid, I'm not sure when or if I'm coming up. If I plan something, I'll let you know. I don't know how much of a grand tour I need. I have ridden Georgia Scorcher all by myself, that is, me and 31 empty seats. I've been taken off Ninja when it went down. I've even had my huevos jammed into my throat on Acrophobia. Company is welcome though.

[Squid2]

Yep, you don't need a grand tour. However, Squidette and I will be glad to keep you company. She's ridden Goliath more times than I have... she can power ride much more easily than I can.

Squid2

[Hemmy]

super man ultimate flight was closed last time i was there...what a shame

Good park overall though

[soundgodz]

When I climb the lift hills on any flyer, either Supermans or Vekoma Flying Dutchmen, I close my eyes and relax. I really love just going limp in the B&M rigs. They're so comfortable.

[Z@X]

How did you keep holding the camera!? I would of dropped it at the first hill!

[Beldin]

It actually wasn't that difficult. The hard part was getting the camera back out of the wife's hip pack while on the lift hill. They wouldn't let the train leave the station until we had put the camera away. During the entire ride, I had my elbow on the armrest with the camera gripped tight and the camera strap around my wrist and twisted several times to make it tight. My other hand was free to hold on if need be, but I didn't hold on much. Next time, I won't be holding a camera and I'll be totally hands free. :D

[Squid2]

Just as a note: There have been dozens of cellphones, wallets, cameras, loose change, gum, glasses, hats and other things ejected from this ride. Items WILL come out of nonsealed pockets. It does not matter if you're sitting on them or not. All loose items need to be either left in a locker or on the station dock. And no, an item ejected from the ride while riding is not recoverable. (Generally, they're destroyed upon impact with the ground.)

Also note that this ride spends a large portion of the ride going over public sections of the park, such as Georgia Scorcher, the USA section, Log Flume, the entrance to the park... people on the ground have almost been struck by objects flying from the coaster. We're talking within a foot of impact. Please, please, please, do not bring any loose articles onto the ride unless they are properly secured. (Glasses with straps seem to be fine, for example. Hats aren't. And Goliath loves to eat cellphones.)

One other thing: If you have a cast on, the ride ops will not let you ride. B&M has informed the park that the ride will rebreak bones in a cast... the forces are that strong.

Squid2

[Matandmel05]

My brother lost his cell phone on The Mummy Returns at Universal this past week but, I guess in one part of the ride it switches directions rather abruptly. Universal found the phone and said that they'd mail it back to him at no cost which I thought was cool of them to do. He had the phone is a pocket on the side of his shorts that was held closed with velcro.

[Beldin]

I used a sport strap on my eyeglasses. I attached my ball cap to my belt securely. Everything else was in our zippered hip packs. The camera was the only thing that I worried about and I had a death grip on it.

[Squid2]

Beldin, you at least used common sense. I'm trying to figure out a rig that can be transported onto a ride as part of a rider's clothing, and can't be flung from the rider. I'm thinking something like a pinhole camera attached to a recorder in a double strapped ***** pack. Something that, for it to be flung from the ride, would require that the rider go with it... and at that point, you don't care anymore what happens to the dang camera.

And regarding your name... does that make you just Din?

Squid2

[leonardofury]

You were quite luckily not to be spotted with the camera. Last time I was at Alton Towers, they stopped Nemesis on the lift hill after they spotted someone trying to film the ride on his phone. A ride op then had to climb up the catwalk to relieve that person of their phone for the duration of the ride. He got quite severely mocked by the rest of the train.

[Matandmel05]

I had a video camera taken away on Ninja @ SFoG just as we were about to leave the station....
This came after I had already video taped evey other coaster in the park including Batman. Ninja would have been a piece of cake to record after Batman.

[David Ellis]

I cannot understand why anyone would want a video keep-sake of Ninja, other than the fact that watching it in your armchair at home on TV is far far better than actually riding it! :haha:

This is an interesting and delicate subject, filming on rides. I have filmed on literally hundreds of coasters around the world, and am pretty experienced in riding without holding on. My on-ride filming on many of the coasters has been openly permitted or, at least, not prohibited by the parks, however I openly admit I have sneaked footage on many coasters all around the world. I always adopt a "sensible" approach to it though, in that if I have even the slightest doubt as to whether I could do it safely I don't do it.

However, the fact is that filming on many coasters is breaking park rules, whether you hold on tight or not. With my own sneaked footage I keep it for myself or put it on Trip DVDs for friends to enjoy. I am just a little worried though that sharing "illegally obtained" footage on the Internet and telling people about it on these forums could be seen in a dim light by park managememt if they were so inclined to read these sort of forums. Should we be encouraging an activity that is against park rules by sharing stories about it? A tricky one!

As I have said above, I am as guilty as anyone else who has filmed when it is not allowed, although I never compromise the safety or myself, other riders or the public by risking something that could be dangerous. The problem is made worse by the fact that more and more parks, particularly in USA, are adopting no camera rules on all their rides, which makes it more difficult to get that front seat footage in a legal manner.

This is a tricky subject, and one that probably warrants a separate thread, but I thought I would share my own thoughts as the subject had been raised.

David.

[Harpo]

When a TV news crew interviewed me on a couple of coasters in 2004 at Lagoon Amusement Park in Utah, I found it quite amusing how the park insisted on supervising the attachment of the handheld camera to the cameraman's hand. They had that thing so strapped on, it couldn't possibly have flown off without taking the cameraman with it!

It was a bit inconvenient for him, as he couldn't use his right hand for anything other than holding the camera. As a result, he had to be assisted getting into and out of the coaster.

[Beldin]

Beldin, you at least used common sense. I'm trying to figure out a rig that can be transported onto a ride as part of a rider's clothing, and can't be flung from the rider. I'm thinking something like a pinhole camera attached to a recorder in a double strapped ***** pack. Something that, for it to be flung from the ride, would require that the rider go with it... and at that point, you don't care anymore what happens to the dang camera.

And regarding your name... does that make you just Din?

Squid2

That would be cool. A lipstick camera attached to a recorder. I don't know how small they are being made now, but something suitable is probably available. I'd want to make it waterproof as well. I've got season tickets to Paramount Carowinds and there is a Roller Soaker Coaster there. It would be fun to tape that ride.

Regarding my name... I used to be Din, but after becoming a Disciple of Aldur, he added the Bel to my name. I've been Beldin so long, I'd forgotten about my original name of Din. Not really something that I like to think about anyway considering my village hated me because of my appearance. My childhood has nothing that I want to remember.
;)


You were quite luckily not to be spotted with the camera. Last time I was at Alton Towers, they stopped Nemesis on the lift hill after they spotted someone trying to film the ride on his phone. A ride op then had to climb up the catwalk to relieve that person of their phone for the duration of the ride. He got quite severely mocked by the rest of the train.

I think the attendant (who was a rather cute girl, by the way) knew what I was going to do. When we put the camera away before leaving the station, she gave me a sly smile. Actually, I was spotted with the camera. You could clearly see the camera in my hand in the on-ride photo. I wish I had purchased the photo, but alas, I didn't.

I cannot understand why anyone would want a video keep-sake of Ninja, other than the fact that watching it in your armchair at home on TV is far far better than actually riding it!

I have to agree with that!

This is an interesting and delicate subject, filming on rides. I have filmed on literally hundreds of coasters around the world, and am pretty experienced in riding without holding on. My on-ride filming on many of the coasters has been openly permitted or, at least, not prohibited by the parks, however I openly admit I have sneaked footage on many coasters all around the world. I always adopt a "sensible" approach to it though, in that if I have even the slightest doubt as to whether I could do it safely I don't do it.

I had no doubt about it. I knew I could do it safely because I've done it before. I was more worried about my dentures that I was about the camera. When I rode the Rockin' Roller Coaster at WDW, I darned near lost my dentures. It was an pretty intense "take off."

However, the fact is that filming on many coasters is breaking park rules, whether you hold on tight or not. With my own sneaked footage I keep it for myself or put it on Trip DVDs for friends to enjoy. I am just a little worried though that sharing "illegally obtained" footage on the Internet and telling people about it on these forums could be seen in a dim light by park managememt if they were so inclined to read these sort of forums. Should we be encouraging an activity that is against park rules by sharing stories about it? A tricky one!

I didn't see any signs stating that filming on rides is prohibited, but that doesn't really mean anything. I didn't read all the fine print on the brochure or on all the signs. As far as posting it on the net, I don't know that it should cause any problems. I dunno, you may be right. I'll have to think on it.

As I have said above, I am as guilty as anyone else who has filmed when it is not allowed, although I never compromise the safety or myself, other riders or the public by risking something that could be dangerous. The problem is made worse by the fact that more and more parks, particularly in USA, are adopting no camera rules on all their rides, which makes it more difficult to get that front seat footage in a legal manner.

I wouldn't have even tried it if I thought there was any danger. The camera was not going to leave my hand. I made sure of that. The only way it would have been more secure was if I had duct taped the thing to my hand.

This is a tricky subject, and one that probably warrants a separate thread, but I thought I would share my own thoughts as the subject had been raised.

David.

Your thoughts are appreciated and I will consider them with much thought of my own. Thanks.

Bel

[David Ellis]

Interestingly, there were a few parks I visited in 1999 and 2001 who allowed camcorders on the coasters then but have strict no camera policies now.

I asked on our recent trip if it was OK to have my camcorder duct-taped to my hand, but they still insisted that under no circumstances were cameras allowed on the ride. Shame.

In Europe, especially mainland Europe, using camcorders and cameras on rides is allowed quite a lot. I have visited some parks that have allowed filming using duct tape...as an enthusiast I don't mind this at all...I just wish that US parks could be more sensible, a camcorder that is securely taped to my hand is not a health & safety risk, so why do staff remain so inflexible?

I believe at SFOG all the main coasters have "no camera" warnings on the ride information boards at the queue-line entry point. I noticed it on most, if not all coasters there.

I was very tempted to get some footage on the coasters there, but the European Coaster Club have given clear guidelines that the first club rule is that all park rules must be complied with. Shame again!

Thanks for your comments though. There are too many people out there who flout the health and safety rules, which account for many park accidents, and often someone misbehaving (such as the ACE member who died on the Raven) can bring about the type of policies that reduce the amount of fun we can all have (no cameras, seatbelts on everything, OTSRs on non-looping coasters, stapling by operators, etc).

David.

[Harpo]

I'm not sure how the legal environment is in the U.K. and in Europe, but the U.S. tends to be a bit sue-happy.

If a person duct-taped a camcorder to their hand, then, on the ride, banged themselves in the head with it, they could sue the amusement park for allowing them to duct-tape the camcorder to their hand. Worst of all, in most parts of the U.S., they'd probably win.

The general trend is something that bothers me a whole lot. It's becoming the case where people no longer have to take responsibility for their own actions -- it's always someone else's fault for allowing the action to have happened. Spill hot coffee on yourself and get burned? Clearly, it's the fault of the restaurant for making the coffee too hot. Eat too much fast food and get fat? Must be the fault of the fast food chains for making unhealthy food so easy to obtain. Accidentally run over and kill someone with a riding lawn mower? Naturally, it's the fault of the lawn mower company for not making the mower automatically shut off when the driver isn't paying attention. (I believe that lawsuit is currently pending.)

Heck, even in the case of the Raven, where there were witnesses indicating that the rider intentionally defeated the safety systems, the family still sued Holiday World because their daughter was able to find a way to defeat those systems. (While I thought the death was tragic, I was pleased that this lawsuit was dismissed, as it was the rider's own actions that led to the accident. If Holiday World were located in many other parts of the country, such as California, I believe the family probably would have won.)

With the way the U.S. tends to be lawsuit-happy, I don't blame the parks for being strict. However, I really wish people would take responsibility for their own actions, and the courts would stop rewarding idiocy, so the parks wouldn't have to have so many restrictions.

The U.S. government appears to be trying to idiot-proof the country. The problem with idiot-proofing, however, is that it just results in the building of a better idiot who still finds a way to defeat the idiot-proofing.

Ever watch the TV show "Sliders?" There was an episode where they slid into a world where lawsuits were out of control. They couldn't even order food at a fast food restaurant without having a stackload of liability waiver forms.

[Beldin]

I believe at SFOG all the main coasters have "no camera" warnings on the ride information boards at the queue-line entry point. I noticed it on most, if not all coasters there.

David.

Ah! That's why I didn't see the sign. I didn't enter the que. We were using the FlashPass so we didn't have to wait in line to ride.


Snip

You are absoultely right. Instead of Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness, it's now... Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Litigation.

[David Ellis]

The general trend is something that bothers me a whole lot. It's becoming the case where people no longer have to take responsibility for their own actions -- it's always someone else's fault for allowing the action to have happened.

I really wish people would take responsibility for their own actions, and the courts would stop rewarding idiocy, so the parks wouldn't have to have so many restrictions.

The U.S. government appears to be trying to idiot-proof the country. The problem with idiot-proofing, however, is that it just results in the building of a better idiot who still finds a way to defeat the idiot-proofing.


I fully agree Harpo, unfortunately over this side of the pond things are moving in the same direction, largely influenced by the "No win no fee" lawyer epidemic that the US appeared to have pioneered.

People always seem to have someone to blame, except themselves. That is daft. There was a classic email that has done the rounds over here about how growing up in the 1980s people weren't wrapped in a safety blanket as they went through life like they are now, and it made us all the more stronger for it. The over-protection children grow up with today is the main reason why they are so susceptable to colds and viruses...they have never had the chance to experience the germs and develop the anti-bodies.

I am not sure how the US government can succeed in idiot-proofing the country, when most people agree they are led by one LOL

Anyway, to get things back on topic...I loved Goliath, the floaty airtime is so amazing on that ride, more so than on the Voyage in my opinion. I was tempted to get some film on it, and on any other occasion I would have done so...it is the front seat footage that enthusiasts love to watch when the parks are closed for the winter.

I have produced a number of videos and DVDs over the last few years with lots of front seat footage...if I was not allowed to get any sneaked footage anymore then my future DVDs won't be anywhere near as popular as my older stuff.

David.

[bowler4ever]

David, when you went to SFNE, was Mind Eraser a good ride in your opinion?
Sorry for going off-topic :)

[David Ellis]

That's an easy one to answer...it's a Vekoma SLC. The words "good" and "SLC" are NEVER seen in the same sentence!

Actually that is not true...I rode that particular SLC in 2001, so as I didn't have to ride it again, I didn't, and that was GOOD.

I only tend to ride them once...just for the count, I don't find them particularly enjoyable. A thrill, I guess, but pleasurable - no.

David.

[Harpo]

Maintenance can make an amazing difference in those SLCs.

Before we were married, I took my wife to Kentucky Kingdom, where she rode on their SLC and absolutely hated it, saying she'd never do that one again.

On another trip, I took her to Geauga Lake, where I knew that the SLC had been completely refurbished by Cedar Fair over the winter. So, before riding, I took a bit of a chance and didn't tell her it was a Vekoma SLC, and she wasn't familiar enough with them to realize it. I told her after we exited the ride. She said she was glad I waited to tell her, because if she'd known, she wouldn't have gone on it. However, as it turned out, it was her favorite coaster at Geauga Lake. It isn't my favorite there, but it was a LOT better than before the refurbishment.

So, with proper care, I think even a Vekoma SLC can be a decent ride! :D

[leonardofury]

Certainly the newer trains seem far smoother. I've only ridden 2, Traumatizer at Pleasureland Southport (Standard model) and Kumali at Flamingoland (Custom). Traumatizer was built in 1999, Kumali in 2006. While I quite liked both of them, Kumali was far smoother than Traumatizer, a fact I believe was helped by the newer trains, with redesigned harnesses to soften the earbashing. I believe the custom design also helped, and it was admittedly still no B&M, but it looks like Vekoma have worked out how to make smooth rides!

[David Ellis]

I didn't find T2 at Kentucky that bad when I rode it in 1999, I could name plenty of other SLCs I have disliked more...Top Gun at Canada's Wonderland springs to mind.

I thought Geauga Lake's SLC was OK this year, but had no inclination to re-ride. I was happy to re-ride the Big Dipper, which was smoother this year than on previous visits, and the floorless, Dominator, which had no lines and was great.

David.

[David Ellis]

Certainly the newer trains seem far smoother. I've only ridden 2, Traumatizer at Pleasureland Southport (Standard model) and Kumali at Flamingoland (Custom). Traumatizer was built in 1999, Kumali in 2006. While I quite liked both of them, Kumali was far smoother than Traumatizer, a fact I believe was helped by the newer trains, with redesigned harnesses to soften the earbashing. I believe the custom design also helped, and it was admittedly still no B&M, but it looks like Vekoma have worked out how to make smooth rides!

Traumatiser was VERY smooth when it opened, as many SLCs are...they just tend to deteriorate very quickly into rough headbangers. I wouldn't mind betting that if you ride Kumali in a year or two it will feel just like Traumatiser does now.

David.

[Beldin]

I was surprised by Mindbender at SFoG. I know it's not a Verkoma, (it's a Schwarzkopf built Ingenieur Büro Stengel design). It was just as smooth as when it first opened in 1978. I still love that ride. I think it's a toss-up for my wife. She liked Batman and Mindbender both about equally. Of course, her favorite was Goliath as was mine. You can hear her say, "I love that air time." on the video as we went over that last little bunny hill before the brakes.

[Squid2]

Mindbender, over the past two years, went through a major rehab where the trains were rebuilt from the ground up. They got new fiberglass bodies and new poly wheels. It's running now better than I've ever seen her do before, and it's much quieter. If you haven't ridden Mindbender in the past two years, go ride it! You're missing out on an incredible ride.

Squid2

[David Ellis]

Regarding Mindbender, what are your opinions on the park's claim that it has 3 inversions?

In my own opinion, that inclined loop is just a slightly banked helix, and in no way constitutes an inversion. I didn't think it felt like an inversion either.

For me it has 2 inversions.

David.

[Squid2]

I've never felt that the dive loop was an inversion, either. However, Schwarzkopf apparently did. It's always been marketed as a three inversion coaster, but most people say it has only two. It does put you through a lot of Gs at the bottom of the dive loop... easily as much as a normal loop.

Squid2