2007 Chevrolet Corvette Z06

[Bingham67]

Just seen this not really a fan of American muscle cars but im sure a few on here will like. :)

Looks like an improved version is on the way have to say looks quite nice. :)

http://www.rsportscars.com/eng/cars/corvette_z06.asp

[KoenigViper]

There's nothing improved but a new color and a $5,000 hike in price.

That means it's $70,000 now, and anymore hikes, and it'll be sitting there with the Viper.

[VertigoSFX]

a new color and 105 more horsepower and 70lb-ft of more torque, it did improve, but i dont think its worth it for 25grand more than the base price of the coupe 'vette

[hucurreyrry@gma]

Hm, nevermind, it is the same as the 06. :)

[KoenigViper]

a new color and 105 more horsepower and 70lb-ft of more torque, it did improve, but i dont think its worth it for 25grand more than the base price of the coupe 'vette
No it didn't. That Corvette, aka the new Stingray isn't even out yet with no set price.

This is a plain old $5K more Z06.

[MokoMoko]

Well the colour is not the only reason for the Price raise.
General Motors has raised the price on the 2007 Corvette Z06 to $70,000 — up significantly from last year's $65,700. Why the $4,300 price jump? GM says the new Z06 has a larger glove box, the option of ordering OnStar, and improved interior acoustics. The super 'Vette is also available in a new color — Atomic Orange Metallic.

[mopar4life]

Its creeping up on the Viper's price of 83 grand.

[Diab]

Woah I'm sold !! I mean come on a larger glove box !! Take that Ferrari, Porsche, Lamborghini etc... I can now put 2 pairs in there. Yeah yeah !

[hucurreyrry@gma]

Could be an inflation deal you know... or the bean counters at Chevy decided they weren't making enough to justify building it... Then again, where else are you going to get 3.7 second 0-60 for anywhere near that price?

[KoenigViper]

Um, perhaps a used ACR or GTS-R model Viper?

[VertigoSFX]

okay i understand where ur coming from, i wasnt paying attention to the fact that this was the 2007, and didnt realize this was another version of last year's model, i do understand what u mean now, the only difference i see is maybe 5hp? thats like nothing, so i completely agree with you

[xXShadowStrikeX]

Yea the Corvette in TDU will be a bargain. Cheap power. It's a very nice car, for the price tag.

[shelby-man]

they have 2 that make 600 hp for under 100k the z06 bluedevil and the corevette devilray which is a c6 with a 427 and a little body mods and wider tires and there both under 100k

[KoenigViper]

No, it's 1 car. There is no Devilray, it was Blue Devil, now called the Stingray. It has 600Bhp, but there's no price nor is the car available.

[shelby-man]

No, it's 1 car. There is no Devilray, it was Blue Devil, now called the Stingray. It has 600Bhp, but there's no price nor is the car available.

the devil ray is a aftermarket vette its made by a group called mti heres the link http://www.motortrend.com/features/performance/112_0508_tuner/index.html

[KoenigViper]

Hmm....aftermarket.

That means Chevrolet doesn't have a Devilray.

[shelby-man]

There's nothing improved but a new color and a $5,000 hike in price.

That means it's $70,000 now, and anymore hikes, and it'll be sitting there with the Viper.

thats on;y if u get the new color and u r still at a low price for 505 horsepower and a light body car that beat the viper for almost 25,000 less in msrp its is the worlds cheapest supercar in my view

['63 Vette]

...for almost 25,000 less in msrp its is the worlds cheapest supercar in my view

Pardon me, but some of us Chevy fans prefer to call it "the worlds most affordable supercar."

Proper terminology is important, you know.

;)

[VertigoSFX]

lol '63 vette, well said :)

[hucurreyrry@gma]

Yeah, but nobody wants a Viper...the only way you can handle that cow is to mash the gas and lock the wheels the opposite direction you want to go. ;) Which may be fun, but all the new tires you'll have to buy will have bought you two Z06s.

[KoenigViper]

thats on;y if u get the new color and u r still at a low price for 505 horsepower and a light body car that beat the viper for almost 25,000 less in msrp its is the worlds cheapest supercar in my view
Um, no, the car us $70,000 no matter what you do.

The Viper is $85,000. The Vette is now $70,000. Did you flunk mathematics because that's a $15,000 difference, not a $20,000.

[KoenigViper]

Yeah, but nobody wants a Viper...the only way you can handle that cow is to mash the gas and lock the wheels the opposite direction you want to go. ;) Which may be fun, but all the new tires you'll have to buy will have bought you two Z06s.
Yes, which is exactly why R&T said the Viper was a track car more than Z06 because it responded smoove movements when the driving commanded. The Z06 was concluded as a tail happy, and twitchy car that found bumps in the road.

[shelby-man]

Um, no, the car us $70,000 no matter what you do.

The Viper is $85,000. The Vette is now $70,000. Did you flunk mathematics because that's a $15,000 difference, not a $20,000.

i was thinking the base 06 z06 not the 07

[KoenigViper]

The '06 Vette Z06 was $67,000. Where's this $25,000 difference?

I would quote Chevrolet, but they've updated their site to the now $70,000.

[SVT_MAN]

...for almost 25,000 less in msrp its is the worlds cheapest supercar in my view

Pardon me, but some of us Chevy fans prefer to call it "the worlds most affordable supercar."

Proper terminology is important, you know.

;)

I'm sure Chevy's PR deparment would like it called that too. Too bad the other statement is just as true as yours.

[shelby-man]

The '06 Vette Z06 was $67,000. Where's this $25,000 difference?

I would quote Chevrolet, but they've updated their site to the now $70,000.

its a 20,000 diffrence give or take but i was off sry i f'ed up

[SVT_MAN]

Yea the Corvette in TDU will be a bargain. Cheap power. It's a very nice car, for the price tag.

Who cares how much of a bargain a car is in the game anyway? All indications from reviewers of the final or near final code point to the fact that earning money is very easy.

By the way, I don't understand why people are freaking out over a $15-20k difference in price in that range anyway. Chances are if you can afford $70,000 you can afford $85,000. For any car over $50,000, you have to have some serious cash flow coming in each month. Now the difference between $25,000 and $40,000 -- that's huge. But not what we're talking about here.

That doesn't really change the fact that the Z06 pretty much smokes the Viper in terms of performance anyway. In anything but a straight line, the Viper is absolutely schooled. In addition to the V-10 sounding like a vacuum cleaner. Don't get me wrong, I like how the Viper looks, but it has a lot more shortcomings that the Corvette ..

Even in a straight line, the 7L is up to the task ... and I'm not even a die-hard Corvette fan. Definitely NOT a fan of the new C6 styling. The front nose, and headlights especially look like a Viper on cocaine. It should have retained pop up headlights (even if the drag would have been more) --- they've been a Corvette hallmark since the 1970s.

[Corsis]

Who cares how much of a bargain a car is in the game anyway? All indications from reviewers of the final or near final code point to the fact that earning money is very easy.

By the way, I don't understand why people are freaking out over a $15-20k difference in price in that range anyway. Chances are if you can afford $70,000 you can afford $85,000. For any car over $50,000, you have to have some serious cash flow coming in each month. Now the difference between $25,000 and $40,000 -- that's huge. But not what we're talking about here.

That doesn't really change the fact that the Z06 pretty much smokes the Viper in terms of performance anyway. In anything but a straight line, the Viper is absolutely schooled. In addition to the V-10 sounding like a vacuum cleaner. Don't get me wrong, I like how the Viper looks, but it has a lot more shortcomings that the Corvette ..

Even in a straight line, the 7L is up to the task ... and I'm not even a die-hard Corvette fan. Definitely NOT a fan of the new C6 styling. The front nose, and headlights especially look like a Viper on cocaine. It should have retained pop up headlights (even if the drag would have been more) --- they've been a Corvette hallmark since the 1970s.

Agreed 100%. The pop up lights were a big trademark of the Corvette. Definitley liked the C5 more than the C6. Though till a beautiful car IMO. I dont think the price jump is a big concern of chevy. The average car person will be buying a C6 Coupe or Vert, the Z06 is a specialty sports car and will be bought regardless of its price by hardcore sports car/vette inthusiasts.

[whiplash911]

General motors is loosing money hand over fist right now .... yet the Z06 is all but sold out.... rumor has it they cant build them fast enough .... why ..cause its one of the best bang for the buck rides out there ( and no im not a vette fan ....) but it is a great ride for the money ....not to mention the hardcore vette guys are buying them at 10k to 15k over sticker ( just like the new shelby mustang gt-500 ...36k car being sold for 60k) do i blame GM ... hell no .... if the market allows it and there are guys out there willing to pay ...why not increase profit margin ...besides when you have 65k to spend on a toy ...another 5k is really not going to affect your buying decision especially when a car like that is an emotional purschase (aka Toy)

[Innerg]

Yes, which is exactly why R&T said the Viper was a track car more than Z06 because it responded smoove movements when the driving commanded. The Z06 was concluded as a tail happy, and twitchy car that found bumps in the road.

Umm I think you have got it mixed up. The Corvette is the easier one to drive with a smoother ride. The Viper is the twitchy tail happy car, because dodge offers no driver assistances. No traction control like corvette has to offer. The viper also has a very tight steering ratio, which makes it hard to control under normal driving, where the corvette is not as harsh.

The Z06 has been neck and neck with the Vipers for a long time. Beating them in some areas even. The Z06 is just engineered better hands down. The Z06 when it was 405hp it was neck and neck with a 500hp Viper. 95hp less and just as fast. Now that the Z06 is 505hp, the viper doesn't stand a chance. They have to give the Viper more hp to make up for the poorer engineering. The Z06 is an ease to drive daily were the Viper is not. The Z06 has many luxuries, where the Viper does not. The Z06 has extremely good gas mileage for a V8 Sportcar ( 26 - 28 mpg on the free way ) where the Viper doesn't do well in this catagory at all. Don't get me wrong, Vipers are nice cars, but you just get way more bang for your buck with a Z06. I am not happy that they keep raising the price of the Z06 though. They used to be 60K for a C5 Z06. Then 65K for a C6 Z06. Now they want 70K for a 2007 Z06. I liked it more when there was a 25K difference in price between the Z06 and the Viper and you get a better engineered car.

Apparently in 2008 there will be a NEW Corvette. It will be called the Corvette SS that is pushing a 6.2 liter supercharged V8 producing 650hp. Thats a 145hp more then the current C6 Z06 with 505hp, which is already making Vipers, Ferraris, and Lambo's wet their pants in the night.

[KoenigViper]

It's a Stingray, not a SS.

And that's what the article said, not me. I haven't gotten the chance to drive the Coupe like I thought I was a few months back. Only the Z06 which is twitchy, but I never experienced it enough to get it tailhappy. Which doesn't surprise me. The Viper has never been a very twitchy car.

Few things. A Viper Coupe as 510Bhp. It stands a chance. That's been shown. The Viper can be daily driven, it's the heat in the cockpit that won't allow this. Corvette luxury? In hell, perhaps? Neither cars have anything luxurious about them besides maybe the Corvette's bigger glovebox.
This is a good thing though. They aren't suppose to be luxurious or have luxurious things.

Yes, Chevrolet, V8. The Viper's 8.3-liter V10 gets 12/20 mpg. There's worse out there.
There's never been a $25K difference. It's been $20,000 at most. A Corvette Z06 gets 16/26. So on the streets, it isn't that much better.

Viper poor engineering? I guess those 1-2 seconds behind the Z06 are really poor uh? If it's so poor, why does the Viper have the most manufacturer wins in the FIA GT, and the first American car to win in their class at Le Mans? Poor engineering nothing. The Viper is a successful race car. You couldn't say the same for the Corvette back in the days until the C6R and maybe the C5R.

Makes Ferraris, Lamborghinis, and Vipers scared? Which cars are these? A Gallardo with the 520Bhp has never had giant loss to a Z06. Don't even bring in the Murcielago 6.2 as it's out of production, and I doubt Chevrolet's Z06 got enough power to take on 640 horses out of a 6.5-liter V12. Ferrari? The F430 is the same as the Gallardo, it's never had a giant loss to the Z06. I doubt the Z06 will make any 599GTB cry in its sleep. Viper? See above. 2 seconds behind, wow. The Corvette is great because it's a bang for it's buck.

As for that Stingray, Dodge has a 650Bhp Viper of their own in the works in McLaren Technologies, the same company responsible for the monster that was the Buick GNX.

[Ebiggs]

Heres a quick video of a Gallardo v. a Z06 on the highway. Rolling start, the Gallardo gets a bit of a jump at first, then Z06 pulls away.

http://videos.streetfire.net/search/gallardo/0/352f3bdf-27c7-4ae7-ad1f-a4a6c169aa21.htm

The Z06 has humiliated the F430 in a recent Car and Driver test around a handling course by three seconds. It was better in acceleration, highest speed, best braking, and better handling. The Porsche 997 911 Turbo came close, but was still beaten.

[shelby-man]

Heres a quick video of a Gallardo v. a Z06 on the highway. Rolling start, the Gallardo gets a bit of a jump at first, then Z06 pulls away.

http://videos.streetfire.net/search/gallardo/0/352f3bdf-27c7-4ae7-ad1f-a4a6c169aa21.htm

The Z06 has humiliated the F430 in a recent Car and Driver test around a handling course by three seconds. It was better in acceleration, highest speed, best braking, and better handling. The Porsche 997 911 Turbo came close, but was still beaten.

ive seen the video man its crazy that 60-70 thusand car beat a 200,000 plus lambo

and as i said before i messed up on the price difference ok so drop it koenigviper k i have admitted i was wrong so why do u keep reposting it

[Innerg]

It's a Stingray, not a SS.

And that's what the article said, not me. I haven't gotten the chance to drive the Coupe like I thought I was a few months back. Only the Z06 which is twitchy, but I never experienced it enough to get it tailhappy. Which doesn't surprise me. The Viper has never been a very twitchy car.

Few things. A Viper Coupe as 510Bhp. It stands a chance. That's been shown. The Viper can be daily driven, it's the heat in the cockpit that won't allow this. Corvette luxury? In hell, perhaps? Neither cars have anything luxurious about them besides maybe the Corvette's bigger glovebox.
This is a good thing though. They aren't suppose to be luxurious or have luxurious things.

Yes, Chevrolet, V8. The Viper's 8.3-liter V10 gets 12/20 mpg. There's worse out there.
There's never been a $25K difference. It's been $20,000 at most. A Corvette Z06 gets 16/26. So on the streets, it isn't that much better.

Viper poor engineering? I guess those 1-2 seconds behind the Z06 are really poor uh? If it's so poor, why does the Viper have the most manufacturer wins in the FIA GT, and the first American car to win in their class at Le Mans? Poor engineering nothing. The Viper is a successful race car. You couldn't say the same for the Corvette back in the days until the C6R and maybe the C5R.

Makes Ferraris, Lamborghinis, and Vipers scared? Which cars are these? A Gallardo with the 520Bhp has never had giant loss to a Z06. Don't even bring in the Murcielago 6.2 as it's out of production, and I doubt Chevrolet's Z06 got enough power to take on 640 horses out of a 6.5-liter V12. Ferrari? The F430 is the same as the Gallardo, it's never had a giant loss to the Z06. I doubt the Z06 will make any 599GTB cry in its sleep. Viper? See above. 2 seconds behind, wow. The Corvette is great because it's a bang for it's buck.

As for that Stingray, Dodge has a 650Bhp Viper of their own in the works in McLaren Technologies, the same company responsible for the monster that was the Buick GNX.


http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vdpcontainers/do/vdp/articleId=107200/pageNumber=1

Read this about the Viper. Notice that it says 1/4 times in the low 12's. The C6 Z06 is in mid to low 11's. Its almost a full second faster in the 1/4 mile and has 5hp less then the viper. Like i said... better engineering.

And as far as the Corvette SS name that i mentioned.. here is another article about that.

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=108398

http://www.jalopnik.com/cars/gossip/over-the-back-fence-corvette-ls9-for-2008-138101.php

http://www.digitalcorvettes.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=45423&highlight=LS9

Now i personally don't like them calling it the Corvette SS.. i would much rather call it the Stingray, like you are calling it.. but apparently it has been confirmed that its going to be called the Corvette SS.

And yes, the current C6 Z06 is making the exotics scared. And the 650hp Corvette SS is going to kill the exotics.

And you talking about Chevy not being able to make 650hp out of a 6.2 liter V8, then you don't know much about motors. My GTO that has a LS2 6.0 liter V8, can reach 600hp with only bolting a ATI procharger on it. Then you add heads, cam, headers, exhaust, and then you got more hp. They can get 650hp out of the 6.2 liter pretty easy. The motor is called a LS9 in the Corvette SS. Go research it.

As for the 650hp Viper in the " works " it will need to add another 100hp to match the 650hp Corvette SS. A 750hp Viper will give a 650hp Corvette a match.

And like i said, you could buy a brand new 2004 Z06 405hp for 60k, the viper is 84k+. I'm sorry, its not 25K difference, its 24K difference.. sorry for rounding up.

About Corvette Luxuries... go sit in a brand new loaded corvette, then go sit in a new loaded viper and get back to me. You will see the difference... trust me.

[KoenigViper]

Shelby-Man: I wasn't referring to you.

So, it gains a second. There's been cars with less power and just as fast as a Vette. Drag times don't mean the car is just a better engineered car. It's just a faster car.

I guess a Ferrari F430 is better engineered (obviously). It only works with 483Bhp and can achieve 11.7 on the strip. A Z06 can hit 11.5. Obviously Chevrolet isn't to great anymore. What's worse that a 360 CS from 3 years ago, while not faster on the strip, is arguably a better car on the track.

Given a Gallardo Spyder can pull off a 12.2 Quarter Mile, I'd bet the Coupe with 520Bhp can pull of a 11.5-11.7 which is more than enough near the Corvette.

Porsche can pull a 0-60 close enough to the Corvette with a 415Bhp 911 GT3 (997). Better engineered, yeah....

For such a car, I would have expected it to have at least given the cars in racing a challenge, but it hasn't. The new Viper can keep up with the Vette.

Don't be a Corvette fanboy with the Viper will need 750Bhp. You look stupid with such a comment given neither car are out.

The C5 Z06 came out during the time of the GTS Final Edition. It was $50K at the time with the Viper at $72,000.
Both at nearly equal 0-60s, with the Viper able to be at least a half second quicker than the Z06.

I didn't say anywhere Chevrolet couldn't do it. Don't pull crap out of nowhere, thanks.

The Corvette has no luxuries. It feels nicer, but it's hardly anything to bring about compared to the Europeans.

No exotics are scared of the Corvette. It runs with them, it doesn't scare them. A 650Bhp Vette and Viper are just over kill anyways. And it won't matter how much power you give them. They're Corvettes. The exclusivity of owning one is nowhere. Viper owners know they have the exclusivity given the number of Vipers is nowhere near as high as Z06 sells.

It's just a 505Bhp Corvette that's a bang for a buck. That doesn't mean it can kill anything in its horsepower range. The Europeans have far too much experience in this area. 650Bhp won't be killing anything. By the time it comes out, the LP640 will be near it's production ends, and Ferrari's supercar based off the FXX will be out with a F430 CS. Porsche has another supercar in the works as well.

A 650Bhp won't make any difference then. It'll just be near the pack, but it won't be killing anything. The car doesn't even have better engineering that a Viper. Both run on completely equal levels on the track. The C5R has been not been a success at all in the FIA GT, esp. when the Vipers had the most wins of a model.

As for racing, where engineering really shows, the C6R constantly has to fight with the DBR9s, and in the FIA GT3, only 1 Vette has beat a Viper. 5 Vipers came seconds behind a Z06R which was defeated by 2 DBRS9s for race 2. In race 1, the Vipers won 1-2 with the Corvettes behind them 3-4.
At Spa, in Race 2, the Viper won. The best finishing Corvette was 9th. Race 1, belonged to the Viper as well. The Corvette came 3rd behind a Porsche.

Better engineering because of a drag strip? Hardly. The Viper has always been a more successful race car than the Corvettes, so the engineering really belongs to the Vipers, not the Vette.

[shelby-man]

[QUOTE=KoenigViper]Shelby-Man: I wasn't referring to you.

ok sorry for flippin out on u bro

[Innerg]

and I doubt Chevrolet's Z06 got enough power to take on 640 horses out of a 6.5-liter V12. Ferrari?

This sounds to me like you are saying that chevy can't make an engine powerful enough to equal a 640hp Ferrari... how am i wrong.... And if i remember right, the corvette won the lemans at least a couple of times recently.... hence the corvette Lemans Package on 2004 Corvettes.


Here is an article about the corvette C5R and there wins.

(from GM Press Release) The Chevrolet Corvette C5-R closed out an historic era on Saturday night with a GTS victory at Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca, a circuit in which the championship-winning team had never won. Ron Fellows and Johnny O’Connell took the class victory in their #3 Compuware Corvette C5-R, seconds ahead of teammates Oliver Gavin and Olivier Beretta in the #4 Corvette. The successful endurance sports car racing program closed out the Corvette C5 era with a notable 35th victory in 55 races. Corvette won every single American Le Mans Series event in 2004 as well as the 24 Hours of Le Mans.

“It’s a very special year when you can go undefeated,” said Doug Duchardt, GM Racing director. “It’s great for the team to finally win at Laguna Seca and this was an amazing effort from the beginning until the end. We’re going to work very hard in the off season to continue with the Corvette C6-R in 2005.”

The four-hour event started in sunny and warm conditions, but ended under hard rain and darkness. The #4 Corvette started from the pole position and held the lead for roughly three hours; a close race in the pits sent the #3 Corvette out in front with only an hour remaining. Johnny O’Connell was able to hold off Olivier Beretta under the gathering rain, and took the final checkered flag for the Corvette C5-R.

“This is a great way to send out the C5-R,” said O’Connell. “The sweetest thing in the world was hearing the hiss from the air jacks and coming down on the wheels, in front of the other Corvette. I have been fortunate to be able to have Ron as a teammate and our team won this one for us in the pits.”

Ron Fellows took his 24th win in the Corvette—23rd with O’Connell as a teammate—and was also responsible for the car’s first victory, at Texas in 2000.

“We started testing this car in the Fall of 1997 so it’s quite special to win today in the last race for the car,” said Fellows. “In a way this is the end of the C5 chapter but the beginning of another. We’ve got a full off-season of development and we’re excited to launch the C6-R next year.”

Olivier Beretta started from pole position but the #4 Corvette team surrendered the lead to the #3 Corvette after a pit stop late in the race.

“I congratulate Ron and Johnny today on their victory,” said Beretta. “I am very happy that I was given the opportunity to race with this team and the C5-R is one of the best race cars I’ve ever driven. The team is a very special group of people and I feel as though I have been at Chevrolet for many years.”



Hmm 35 wins out of 55 races... ya corvettes are engineered poorly... It won 2/3's of it races.. Can Viper claim that? Know when you are out of your league Viper fan boy.


" It's just a 505Bhp Corvette that's a bang for a buck. That doesn't mean it can kill anything in its horsepower range. The Europeans have far too much experience in this area. 650Bhp won't be killing anything. By the time it comes out, the LP640 will be near it's production ends, and Ferrari's supercar based off the FXX will be out with a F430 CS. Porsche has another supercar in the works as well. "

Its just another Vette with 505hp eh... i guess when i go buy one and spank you with it, and you are still not able to afford your stupid supercars that cost 1 million dollars.. i won't feel sorry for you. And yes the 650hp Vette will be killing cars. You are just in denial.

Point out another car that can compete with the C6 Z06 in power, handling, luxuries, fuel efficiency, and is 100K or less. You can't. The C6 Z06 is competing with and beating exotics that are 300k+ or more in price.



LOL i just checked out the 2006 Lemans rankings... they are on top again..

American Le Mans Series 2006
(Standings as of July 22) Driver Standings - GT1 Class
1. Oliver Gavin 106 points ( CORVETTE )
1. Olivier Beretta 106 points ( CORVETTE )
2. Tomas Enge 94 points
2. Darren Turner 94 points
3. Ron Fellows 90 points ( CORVETTE )
3. Johnny O'Connell 90 points ( CORVETTE )
4. Stephane Sarrazin 88 points
5. Pedro Lamy 72 points
6. Jan Magnussen 26 points ( CORVETTE )
7. Jason Bright 22 points
8. Nicolas Kiesa 19 points
9. Max Papis 16 points
9. Andrea Piccini 16 points
10. Tom Weickardt 14 points
10. Terry Borcheller 14 points
10. Jean Phillippe Belloc 14 points

Manufacturer Standings - GT1 Class
1. Chevrolet 115 points
2. Aston Martin 104 points
3. Saleen 14 points

Corvette has won 68% of 73 events.


Corvette Racing 24 Hours of Le Mans Record
Year Finish Class Car Drivers
2000 3rd GTS Corvette C5-R Pilgrim/Collins/Freon
4th GTS Corvette C5-R Fellows/Kneifel/Bell

2001 1st GTS Corvette C5-R Fellows/O'Connell/Pruett
2nd GTS Corvette C5-R Pilgrim/Collins/Freon

2002 1st GTS Corvette C5-R Fellows/O'Connell/Gavin
2nd GTS Corvette C5-R Pilgrim/Collins/Freon

2003 2nd GTS Corvette C5-R Gavin/Collins/Pilgrim
3rd GTS Corvette C5-R Fellows/O'Connell/Freon

2004 1st GTS Corvette C5-R Gavin/Beretta/Magnussen
2nd GTS Corvette C5-R Fellows/O'Connell/Papis

2005 1st GT1 Corvette C6.R Gavin/Beretta/Magnussen
2nd GT1 Corvette C6.R Fellows/O'Connell/Papis

Corvette has also been the ALMS Manufacturer Champion since year 2000 - 2005 and soon to be 2006.

[Corsis]

This sounds to me like you are saying that chevy can't make an engine powerful enough to equal a 640hp Ferrari... how am i wrong.... And if i remember right, the corvette won the lemans at least a couple of times recently.... hence the corvette Lemans Package on 2004 Corvettes.


Here is an article about the corvette C5R and there wins.

(from GM Press Release) The Chevrolet Corvette C5-R closed out an historic era on Saturday night with a GTS victory at Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca, a circuit in which the championship-winning team had never won. Ron Fellows and Johnny O’Connell took the class victory in their #3 Compuware Corvette C5-R, seconds ahead of teammates Oliver Gavin and Olivier Beretta in the #4 Corvette. The successful endurance sports car racing program closed out the Corvette C5 era with a notable 35th victory in 55 races. Corvette won every single American Le Mans Series event in 2004 as well as the 24 Hours of Le Mans.

“It’s a very special year when you can go undefeated,” said Doug Duchardt, GM Racing director. “It’s great for the team to finally win at Laguna Seca and this was an amazing effort from the beginning until the end. We’re going to work very hard in the off season to continue with the Corvette C6-R in 2005.”

The four-hour event started in sunny and warm conditions, but ended under hard rain and darkness. The #4 Corvette started from the pole position and held the lead for roughly three hours; a close race in the pits sent the #3 Corvette out in front with only an hour remaining. Johnny O’Connell was able to hold off Olivier Beretta under the gathering rain, and took the final checkered flag for the Corvette C5-R.

“This is a great way to send out the C5-R,” said O’Connell. “The sweetest thing in the world was hearing the hiss from the air jacks and coming down on the wheels, in front of the other Corvette. I have been fortunate to be able to have Ron as a teammate and our team won this one for us in the pits.”

Ron Fellows took his 24th win in the Corvette—23rd with O’Connell as a teammate—and was also responsible for the car’s first victory, at Texas in 2000.

“We started testing this car in the Fall of 1997 so it’s quite special to win today in the last race for the car,” said Fellows. “In a way this is the end of the C5 chapter but the beginning of another. We’ve got a full off-season of development and we’re excited to launch the C6-R next year.”

Olivier Beretta started from pole position but the #4 Corvette team surrendered the lead to the #3 Corvette after a pit stop late in the race.

“I congratulate Ron and Johnny today on their victory,” said Beretta. “I am very happy that I was given the opportunity to race with this team and the C5-R is one of the best race cars I’ve ever driven. The team is a very special group of people and I feel as though I have been at Chevrolet for many years.”



Hmm 35 wins out of 55 races... ya corvettes are engineered poorly... It won 2/3's of it races.. Can Viper claim that? Know when you are out of your league Viper fan boy.


" It's just a 505Bhp Corvette that's a bang for a buck. That doesn't mean it can kill anything in its horsepower range. The Europeans have far too much experience in this area. 650Bhp won't be killing anything. By the time it comes out, the LP640 will be near it's production ends, and Ferrari's supercar based off the FXX will be out with a F430 CS. Porsche has another supercar in the works as well. "

Its just another Vette with 505hp eh... i guess when i go buy one and spank you with it, and you are still not able to afford your stupid supercars that cost 1 million dollars.. i won't feel sorry for you. And yes the 650hp Vette will be killing cars. You are just in denial.

Point out another car that can compete with the C6 Z06 in power, handling, luxuries, fuel efficiency, and is 100K or less. You can't. The C6 Z06 is competing with and beating exotics that are 300k+ or more in price.



LOL i just checked out the 2006 Lemans rankings... they are on top again..

American Le Mans Series 2006
(Standings as of July 22) Driver Standings - GT1 Class
1. Oliver Gavin 106 points ( CORVETTE )
1. Olivier Beretta 106 points ( CORVETTE )
2. Tomas Enge 94 points
2. Darren Turner 94 points
3. Ron Fellows 90 points ( CORVETTE )
3. Johnny O'Connell 90 points ( CORVETTE )
4. Stephane Sarrazin 88 points
5. Pedro Lamy 72 points
6. Jan Magnussen 26 points ( CORVETTE )
7. Jason Bright 22 points
8. Nicolas Kiesa 19 points
9. Max Papis 16 points
9. Andrea Piccini 16 points
10. Tom Weickardt 14 points
10. Terry Borcheller 14 points
10. Jean Phillippe Belloc 14 points

Manufacturer Standings - GT1 Class
1. Chevrolet 115 points
2. Aston Martin 104 points
3. Saleen 14 points

Corvette has won 68% of 73 events.


Corvette Racing 24 Hours of Le Mans Record
Year Finish Class Car Drivers
2000 3rd GTS Corvette C5-R Pilgrim/Collins/Freon
4th GTS Corvette C5-R Fellows/Kneifel/Bell

2001 1st GTS Corvette C5-R Fellows/O'Connell/Pruett
2nd GTS Corvette C5-R Pilgrim/Collins/Freon

2002 1st GTS Corvette C5-R Fellows/O'Connell/Gavin
2nd GTS Corvette C5-R Pilgrim/Collins/Freon

2003 2nd GTS Corvette C5-R Gavin/Collins/Pilgrim
3rd GTS Corvette C5-R Fellows/O'Connell/Freon

2004 1st GTS Corvette C5-R Gavin/Beretta/Magnussen
2nd GTS Corvette C5-R Fellows/O'Connell/Papis

2005 1st GT1 Corvette C6.R Gavin/Beretta/Magnussen
2nd GT1 Corvette C6.R Fellows/O'Connell/Papis

Corvette has also been the ALMS Manufacturer Champion since year 2000 - 2005 and soon to be 2006.

http://www.public.iastate.edu/~benjigil/images/vette_1b.gif
C5R

http://www.bilnyheter.no/Corvette%20C6.R%5B1%5D.jpg
C6R

Corvettes not great performance cars?? :mefiant15:

[KoenigViper]

Viper fan boy? Nice one Corvette fan boy.

I never said Corvettes weren't poorly engineered. I was stating that Vipers weren't.

You showed me a link about the C5R leaving. I don't care how many wins Corvette made in LeMans recently. It was the Vipers who put America on the map for the GT2 class. Where was Chevrolet? In the back. Vipers are no longer in the LeMans series so any standings from today are irrelevant.

You can't say anything about a 650Bhp Corvette beating anything because it's NEVER been tested. Don't make stupid assumtions fan boy.

The 505Bhp Vette has competed with supercars. It hasn't beat anything over $300,000.

Yes, Viper can claim that. FIA GT series. Know when you're out of your league fanboy as you like to say. Vipers have the reign over Ferrari and everyone else. Corvette has practically nothing. Corvettes are also dominated by in GT3 FIA GT racing series by Vipers.

Um, how can Corvette be the ALMS manufacturer champion when they were dominate by, oh what's this? Oh yes, 2 Vipers in 2000.
What's also funny is that Oreca dropped factory backing of the Viper in 2000, 1 year before the Vettes started winning.

You say Corvette has 35 wins out 55? Chrysler has 23 wins in the FIA GT against Ferraris, Listers, Saleens, and the what not. If Corvette is so good at beating them, why is it they're 5th in the series behind Aston Martins and Maseratis?

BTW, FIA GT had cars much more competitive than the DBR9 and Viper for the C5R. So why is it Chevrolet only has 2 wins, the 1st in 2005?

So, here's an idea.

In the future, don't talk about 650Bhp Corvettes beating anything until said car is actually TESTED against them. You look stupid saying it will with nothing to back up your comment.

2nd, compare Corvette wins to Vipers when they actually raced. You'll see Corvette was dominated by Vipers until Orcea dropped them.

Vipers were the dominate cars in their class in 1998, 1999, and 2000. In 2001, when the factory dropped the cars and they were raced by customers, is when the Corvettes actually started winning. Oreca only returned in 2002 which came behind the Corvette.

ALMS is also ONE series. It's about the ONLY series Chevrolet can find Corvette wins since the obviously, the "exotic-killer" Corvettes weren't competitive to take on Ferrari, Lister, and Saleen. Or even in the GT3 series where individual teams run the Z06 R (the "exotic killer") and Viper Competition Coupe, the Z06 R falls behind Vipers.

Don't call anyone a fanboy until you've looked at your own post.

[Elnoly03]

I like the corvette more because it seems more traditional, the Viper has a more racing cockpitt. Altough the Ford GT's cockpit is also pretty racy

[Innerg]

Viper fan boy? Nice one Corvette fan boy.

I never said Corvettes weren't poorly engineered. I was stating that Vipers weren't.

You showed me a link about the C5R leaving. I don't care how many wins Corvette made in LeMans recently. It was the Vipers who put America on the map for the GT2 class. Where was Chevrolet? In the back. Vipers are no longer in the LeMans series so any standings from today are irrelevant.

You can't say anything about a 650Bhp Corvette beating anything because it's NEVER been tested. Don't make stupid assumtions fan boy.

The 505Bhp Vette has competed with supercars. It hasn't beat anything over $300,000.

Yes, Viper can claim that. FIA GT series. Know when you're out of your league fanboy as you like to say. Vipers have the reign over Ferrari and everyone else. Corvette has practically nothing. Corvettes are also dominated by in GT3 FIA GT racing series by Vipers.

Um, how can Corvette be the ALMS manufacturer champion when they were dominate by, oh what's this? Oh yes, 2 Vipers in 2000.
What's also funny is that Oreca dropped factory backing of the Viper in 2000, 1 year before the Vettes started winning.

You say Corvette has 35 wins out 55? Chrysler has 23 wins in the FIA GT against Ferraris, Listers, Saleens, and the what not. If Corvette is so good at beating them, why is it they're 5th in the series behind Aston Martins and Maseratis?

BTW, FIA GT had cars much more competitive than the DBR9 and Viper for the C5R. So why is it Chevrolet only has 2 wins, the 1st in 2005?

So, here's an idea.

In the future, don't talk about 650Bhp Corvettes beating anything until said car is actually TESTED against them. You look stupid saying it will with nothing to back up your comment.

2nd, compare Corvette wins to Vipers when they actually raced. You'll see Corvette was dominated by Vipers until Orcea dropped them.

Vipers were the dominate cars in their class in 1998, 1999, and 2000. In 2001, when the factory dropped the cars and they were raced by customers, is when the Corvettes actually started winning. Oreca only returned in 2002 which came behind the Corvette.

ALMS is also ONE series. It's about the ONLY series Chevrolet can find Corvette wins since the obviously, the "exotic-killer" Corvettes weren't competitive to take on Ferrari, Lister, and Saleen. Or even in the GT3 series where individual teams run the Z06 R (the "exotic killer") and Viper Competition Coupe, the Z06 R falls behind Vipers.

Don't call anyone a fanboy until you've looked at your own post.

LOL you are clueless. I think i'm talking to a 12 year old...probably am. Try researching and comprehending what is wrote before you talk again please. Thanks in advance. Oh and i wonder why they dropped Viper out ..... it must of been because they were winning alot... they usually drop cars out that win alot of races. /sarcasm off

[fourflusher]

With all due respect, koenigviper, you are in some serious denial. You've made many good points, but even more desperate points. I'll admit, I am a die-hard GM man, but it is oh so obvious that you are only sticking up for the Viper to make it sound better than it is. But seriously, face it. This generation ZO6 has edge on the Viper for just about every aspect of performance. Plus, I'm convinced that the Corvette is the more successful of the two.

Now, a comment about gas mileage. My dad's '99 Vette (422 with Pro-Charger F1 supercharger), on the highway, gets on average 35mpg. Yes, you've read correctly. The 6th gear is very long (as is the Viper's 6th), which makes a huge difference on highway (surely, you are aware of this). More so with the Vette since it is a much smaller engine + lighter, more aerodynamic body. Don't even try to say that the Vette gets crappy gas mileage.

"You can't say anything about a 650Bhp Corvette beating anything because it's NEVER been tested. Don't make stupid assumptions fan boy."
Maybe I have mistaken, but I believe your response to the Corvette SS was that it won't beat similar spec cars of foreign region. To me, that seems like a stupid assumption since there are no "tests" to date. Am I wrong?

When I was young, I loved Vipers (every kid loves Vipers, don't they?). So I can't entirely say that I don't like Vipers. But I won't hold up on boasting for the Vette.

I'd just like to add, I've heard you say that someone "looks stupid" for disagreeing with you multiple times. Now it is my turn.
You look stupid for defending and trying to convince people that the Viper is more than what it really is.

So now, take your best shot at me. Try to make me look stupid (I don't doubt you can, we all have our flaws), try to make the Viper look better than the ZO6. If you are up to the challenge that is.

I look forward to reading your reply.

[Cameron H]

Lets see, the viper looks much better than the C6 corvette:down: I'd personally rather have a viper than the corvette. The viper is rarer, better looking...not as cheap looking:bulb: and hell, it has a 8 litre V10 :D. Now Im a "ford fan-boy" so I obviously would rather have the GT-500 and mod it just a little. The inside of the GT-500 looks alot better, from what I have seen the vette's interior looks cheap and bland.

This is cool http://www.seriouswheels.com/pics-2006/2006-Dodge-Viper-SRT10-Interior-1280x960.jpg

This is sexy http://www.seriouswheels.com/pics-2007/2007-Ford-Shelby-GT500-Production-Interior-1280x960.jpg

This is not
http://www.carchaos.com/chevrolet/chevy_corvette/z06/z06_interior.jpg

This is Agressive http://www.swiftindavis.com/sblog/media/1/20050108-06_viper_srt10_debut.jpg

Awesome http://www.nnauto.cn/auto/supercar/2006/1_Ford_shelby_GT500/2007-Ford-Shelby-GT500-Production-White-FA-1920x1440.jpg

Bland http://www.rsportscars.com/foto/07/corvettez0606_01.jpg

A performing car isnt everything...who the hell wants a bland, way too common car when they can get an exciting, agressive car with a 8 litre V-10. Or you can get a cheaper SVT GT-500, that looks A LOT better, especially interior wise...dont get me wrong the Z06 is a great car, bang for the buck and such...but its bland and cheap looking. Im a Ford person but yet I would take the Viper over the Vette....

[kmizzle69]

since u guys are arguing n stuff let me just end it for ya VIPERS ARE BETTER! lol

[mopar4life]

I like both of them.

ZO6
The Good
Better Performance
Cheaper MSPR
Bigger Cabin

The Bad
Cheap interior
Looks like any other Vette
Boring Styling

Viper
The Good
Exotic looks
8.1L V10
Rare
Special events and Clubs for SRT vehicles

The Bad
Small Cabin
Cheap interior
Burn your leg on the door sill after track use
High Price

Overall the Vette is better.The Viper is almost as good as I would drive either of them because they are both AWESOME. It shows Detroit can still build Ferrari beaters.

I may get flamed for this but Im just putting reviews and magazine articles for all this. Correct me if you want.

[shelby-man]

since u guys are arguing n stuff let me just end it for ya VIPERS ARE BETTER! lol

well thats annoying what is the point of saying that if thats all we had 2 do do u think we would stilll b going on this subject umm NO so next time have some proof and if u cant get any DONT POST ANYTHING k

[kmizzle69]

first of all i can post what i want because there is more pointless stuff than that, and second of all i dont need proof for anything with cars that match up like that they will always be rivals because people have favorites and will always stick up for what they like more

[Innerg]

Lets see, the viper looks much better than the C6 corvette:down: I'd personally rather have a viper than the corvette. The viper is rarer, better looking...not as cheap looking:bulb: and hell, it has a 8 litre V10 :D. Now Im a "ford fan-boy" so I obviously would rather have the GT-500 and mod it just a little. The inside of the GT-500 looks alot better, from what I have seen the vette's interior looks cheap and bland.

This is cool http://www.seriouswheels.com/pics-2006/2006-Dodge-Viper-SRT10-Interior-1280x960.jpg

This is sexy http://www.seriouswheels.com/pics-2007/2007-Ford-Shelby-GT500-Production-Interior-1280x960.jpg

This is not
http://www.carchaos.com/chevrolet/chevy_corvette/z06/z06_interior.jpg

This is Agressive http://www.swiftindavis.com/sblog/media/1/20050108-06_viper_srt10_debut.jpg

Awesome http://www.nnauto.cn/auto/supercar/2006/1_Ford_shelby_GT500/2007-Ford-Shelby-GT500-Production-White-FA-1920x1440.jpg

Bland http://www.rsportscars.com/foto/07/corvettez0606_01.jpg

A performing car isnt everything...who the hell wants a bland, way too common car when they can get an exciting, agressive car with a 8 litre V-10. Or you can get a cheaper SVT GT-500, that looks A LOT better, especially interior wise...dont get me wrong the Z06 is a great car, bang for the buck and such...but its bland and cheap looking. Im a Ford person but yet I would take the Viper over the Vette....


Well, these are your opinions.. honestly, i think the Shelby GT 500 looks like any other Mustang out there.. the interior isn't that nice, its nice for a mustang but thats not saying much. The Viper as far as looks go, are pretty ugly in my opinion. The old body style of the viper i liked a whole lot better. The new body style isn't doing much for me at all. The Viper interior looks really bland to me. The Z06 interior is pretty nice in person. The Z06 looks great in person, the pictures don't do the car justice. If you are saying the Z06 looks bland after you look at it in person, then you need to get your eyes checked.

[Innerg]

I like both of them.

ZO6
The Good
Better Performance
Cheaper MSPR
Bigger Cabin

The Bad
Cheap interior
Looks like any other Vette
Boring Styling

Viper
The Good
Exotic looks
8.1L V10
Rare
Special events and Clubs for SRT vehicles

The Bad
Small Cabin
Cheap interior
Burn your leg on the door sill after track use
High Price

Overall the Vette is better.The Viper is almost as good as I would drive either of them because they are both AWESOME. It shows Detroit can still build Ferrari beaters.

I may get flamed for this but Im just putting reviews and magazine articles for all this. Correct me if you want.

If you want to mention car clubs, then the corvette clubs have been around for decades.

[Cameron H]

Well, these are your opinions.. honestly, i think the Shelby GT 500 looks like any other Mustang out there.. the interior isn't that nice, its nice for a mustang but thats not saying much. The Viper as far as looks go, are pretty ugly in my opinion. The old body style of the viper i liked a whole lot better. The new body style isn't doing much for me at all. The Viper interior looks really bland to me. The Z06 interior is pretty nice in person. The Z06 looks great in person, the pictures don't do the car justice. If you are saying the Z06 looks bland after you look at it in person, then you need to get your eyes checked.

I have actually seen a C6 Corvette Z06 I took 2 pictures of it...I know it has the wierd paint, yadayadayadayada. But I saw the interior.....BLAND. And from a distance it looked like any other corvette. And if you say the Mustang looks like every other mustang and the corvette doesnt then YOU need to get YOUR eyes checked


http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j178/iloveralphlauren/Picture20172.jpg

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j178/iloveralphlauren/Picture20171.jpg

[SVT_MAN]

Well, these are your opinions.. honestly, i think the Shelby GT 500 looks like any other Mustang out there.. the interior isn't that nice, its nice for a mustang but thats not saying much. The Viper as far as looks go, are pretty ugly in my opinion. The old body style of the viper i liked a whole lot better. The new body style isn't doing much for me at all. The Viper interior looks really bland to me. The Z06 interior is pretty nice in person. The Z06 looks great in person, the pictures don't do the car justice. If you are saying the Z06 looks bland after you look at it in person, then you need to get your eyes checked.

The GT-500 has a lot more to distinguish it from the standard-issue Mustangs than the Z06 has to distinguish it from the standard issue Corvettes. As far as the interior, even the Mustang GT's interior at $25,000 is nicer than the Corvette's at whatever price you want to talk --- especially with the accents of the interior upgrade package. There is no question there -- unless you're a blind GM fan boy. As far as performance, yes, the Corvette is still above the GT-500, but it's also quite far above the GT-500 in price. They aren't really in the same class either, so it's admirable that the GT-500 even comes close.

As far as looks are concerned, between the Corvette and Viper, it's the Viper all the way. The Viper has always had a presence about it. It commands attention. When I see a Corvette, I rarely even turn my head. It's not that special. I will admit, I really liked what GM did with the C5 exterior. It looked very nice. But, when they replaced it with the C6, I can't stand those new headlights. I also can't stand the way the hood is shaped. The car looks lost. It looks like a mixture of Japanese, American, and German influences. The car doesn't scream "I'm American and proud of it" like the Viper, Ford GT, or most especially and appropriately, the Mustang. I've heard from GM owners, "Wait for the new Camaro, you'll like that." I looked at it in the infield of Indianapolis Motor Speedway, and while it wasn't ugly, it was the same old story from GM. Borrow this, copy that. Front end: forward-slanting, read as Mustang. Rear tail-lights: see Corvette. Angry, slanted eyes: see any Japanese car or the Silverado. The car looks like a conglomerate of several different cars. And, the worst part? I know GM will soften everything about the car for production. Unlike the Dodge Challenger, which will likely retain its character, the Camaro will likely be dilluted down in typical GM fashion.

GM designers can't come up with a good looking original design to save their life. The only original cars I've seen from GM lately are the Solstice and Sky. While they're original designs, they aren't that good looking. The Mazda Miata MX-5 is a lot cleaner design, without resorting to tacky baubles in the body work.

GM needs to start issuing some bold designs if they want to attract some attention. Their powerplants are pretty good. Their interiors are getting better, but they're still not as good as Chrysler or Ford. But, the area that needs the most work is their exterior design. They need to make some statements.

http://api.cdmdata.com/ftproot/DealerFiles/5947/Photos/1G1ZT52855F306218-0.jpg

If GM continues to think that brick-in-the-face snouts are attractive, they'll continue selling to the same people they've sold to for years: People who know nothing but GM.

If you want to see a car that is finally turning around Ford's everyday car design (Mustang was a bold statement, but it was a niche car), the Fusion marked the start of it.

http://www.lubbockonline.com/newcar/2006/images/ford_fusion_390.jpg

Ford's other designs are starting to reflect this mentality and it should pay dividends. Now, all that Ford needs is the 3.5L V6 in more of its vehicles.


The Viper has never been a very twitchy car.

I'm sorry KoenigViper, but that just plain isn't true. The original Viper was a pig to drive around the track. It had so much power and the chassis was squirrely. The new one isn't really like that, but the original was. Some actually prefer the original just because of that. It behaved a lot like the 427 Shelby Cobra.

[Innerg]

The GT-500 has a lot more to distinguish it from the standard-issue Mustangs than the Z06 has to distinguish it from the standard issue Corvettes. As far as the interior, even the Mustang GT's interior at $25,000 is nicer than the Corvette's at whatever price you want to talk --- especially with the accents of the interior upgrade package. There is no question there -- unless you're a blind GM fan boy. As far as performance, yes, the Corvette is still above the GT-500, but it's also quite far above the GT-500 in price. They aren't really in the same class either, so it's admirable that the GT-500 even comes close.

As far as looks are concerned, between the Corvette and Viper, it's the Viper all the way. The Viper has always had a presence about it. It commands attention. When I see a Corvette, I rarely even turn my head. It's not that special. I will admit, I really liked what GM did with the C5 exterior. It looked very nice. But, when they replaced it with the C6, I can't stand those new headlights. I also can't stand the way the hood is shaped. The car looks lost. It looks like a mixture of Japanese, American, and German influences. The car doesn't scream "I'm American and proud of it" like the Viper, Ford GT, or most especially and appropriately, the Mustang. I've heard from GM owners, "Wait for the new Camaro, you'll like that." I looked at it in the infield of Indianapolis Motor Speedway, and while it wasn't ugly, it was the same old story from GM. Borrow this, copy that. Front end: forward-slanting, read as Mustang. Rear tail-lights: see Corvette. Angry, slanted eyes: see any Japanese car or the Silverado. The car looks like a conglomerate of several different cars. And, the worst part? I know GM will soften everything about the car for production. Unlike the Dodge Challenger, which will likely retain its character, the Camaro will likely be dilluted down in typical GM fashion.

GM designers can't come up with a good looking original design to save their life. The only original cars I've seen from GM lately are the Solstice and Sky. While they're original designs, they aren't that good looking. The Mazda Miata MX-5 is a lot cleaner design, without resorting to tacky baubles in the body work.

GM needs to start issuing some bold designs if they want to attract some attention. Their powerplants are pretty good. Their interiors are getting better, but they're still not as good as Chrysler or Ford. But, the area that needs the most work is their exterior design. They need to make some statements.

http://api.cdmdata.com/ftproot/DealerFiles/5947/Photos/1G1ZT52855F306218-0.jpg

If GM continues to think that brick-in-the-face snouts are attractive, they'll continue selling to the same people they've sold to for years: People who know nothing but GM.

If you want to see a car that is finally turning around Ford's everyday car design (Mustang was a bold statement, but it was a niche car), the Fusion marked the start of it.

http://www.lubbockonline.com/newcar/2006/images/ford_fusion_390.jpg

Ford's other designs are starting to reflect this mentality and it should pay dividends. Now, all that Ford needs is the 3.5L V6 in more of its vehicles.




I'm sorry KoenigViper, but that just plain isn't true. The original Viper was a pig to drive around the track. It had so much power and the chassis was squirrely. The new one isn't really like that, but the original was. Some actually prefer the original just because of that. It behaved a lot like the 427 Shelby Cobra.


The GT-500 and the Corvette are not different in price. The GT-500 performance wise isn't even comparable to a base model 400hp Corvette which cost 40K, let alone the Z06 505hp. The GT-500 is supposed to start at 40+K msrp, but the dealers are already selling them for 60K. Lets compare apples to apples.

Maybe i'm just weird, but i have always thought the Ford interiors were far worse then GM interiors. And i believe that the Z06 interior is far better looking then the ugly Viper interior. Fan boy or not, this is what i believe and perfer. One of the best Ford interiors that i have seen is in my Fathers 2003 T-bird ( retro body ). Its black and red, nice looking, but it still doesn't compare to the interior on my pontiac GTO. Its black and red also, but there is no comparison in design and quality between the two.

You can talk crap about GM cars and their crappy interior and exteriors all you want, but there is a reason why GM is the #1/biggest auto manufacturer in the world, if everyone thought that they were horrible like you, then they wouldn't be #1 would they. And in current times, GM is doing better then Ford is, that also tells a story.

To each his own. I'm glad everyone doesn't like everything that i like, it would suck if it was that way, but get back to reality would you please... i'm not saying that a Viper is the ugliest car in the world..exterior or interior wise, nor is the GT-500, i just don't happen to like the Viper's interior as much as the Z06. But you or Cameron H or whatever his name is... are saying that the Z06 is one of the ugliest cars ever made and the interior is crap... come back to reality.. its very evident that you both are GM haters.. its not that i'm a GM fan boy, its that you guys are too far off on the GM hater side to be reasonable.

http://www.2bluesc.com/pictures/Corvette/c6%20z06/black-c6-z06.jpg

http://www.2bluesc.com/pictures/Corvette/c6%20z06/C6-Z06-INT.jpg

http://www.2bluesc.com/pictures/Corvette/c6%20z06/seat.jpg

C5 2 tone interiors

http://www.z06-corvette.com/members/brandon-hughes-05.jpg

[Innerg]

Proof about the price/performance of the GT500 vs base model corvette 400hp.

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/11150/




http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/coupes/0607_2007_ford_shelby_gt500/

This second article, seems a little off to me about the performance of the GT500... it says their best run from 0-60mph is 4.9 seconds, and their best 1/4 mile is 13.1 seconds. My GTO does better then that and it cost me 30K. Thats 12K less then the base price GT500 with no options. I'm guessing that they just had a crappy driver, or they tested it in a higher elevation.. who knows. Or maybe they really aren't that fast of a car, even the first article mentioned that it didn't seem to live up to its 500hp performance that they were expecting. I read in a different article about the weight of the GT500 was over 4,000lbs, but the first articles says its over 3,800+lbs... not sure who to believe, but if the car does weigh over 4,000 lbs then that would explain why the performance isnt that great.

[VOS]

Awesome

[Cameron H]

[QUOTE=Innerg;7894766]

To each his own. I'm glad everyone doesn't like everything that i like, it would suck if it was that way, but get back to reality would you please... i'm not saying that a Viper is the ugliest car in the world..exterior or interior wise, nor is the GT-500, i just don't happen to like the Viper's interior as much as the Z06. But you or Cameron H or whatever his name is... are saying that the Z06 is one of the ugliest cars ever made and the interior is crap... come back to reality.. its very evident that you both are GM haters.. its not that i'm a GM fan boy, its that you guys are too far off on the GM hater side to be reasonable.

QUOTE]


Yeah, so Im a GM hater? Ok then why do we have a 2001 Chevy Suburban...OMG WE HATE GM SOOOOO MUCH we bought a suburban. I Like our expedition ALOT more than the suburban. The Fords ride is smoother, it has AWD, the back seats recline, it has the 5.4 V8..and to me it looks much better on the inside...so im not a GM hater, and never will be. Infact I would rather have a Tahoe than a mustang ANYDAY. I just hate the new corvette. BTW the people who did drive it were horrible. The GT500 is capable of 0-60 in under 4.5 seconds. So yeah.

[SVT_MAN]

Proof about the price/performance of the GT500 vs base model corvette 400hp.

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/11150/




http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/coupes/0607_2007_ford_shelby_gt500/

This second article, seems a little off to me about the performance of the GT500... it says their best run from 0-60mph is 4.9 seconds, and their best 1/4 mile is 13.1 seconds. My GTO does better then that and it cost me 30K. Thats 12K less then the base price GT500 with no options. I'm guessing that they just had a crappy driver, or they tested it in a higher elevation.. who knows. Or maybe they really aren't that fast of a car, even the first article mentioned that it didn't seem to live up to its 500hp performance that they were expecting. I read in a different article about the weight of the GT500 was over 4,000lbs, but the first articles says its over 3,800+lbs... not sure who to believe, but if the car does weigh over 4,000 lbs then that would explain why the performance isnt that great.

The GT500 does weigh a lot, but 4.9 seconds to 60 is wrong - the standard GT has done that! So the driver obviously sucked.

Plus, whoever said that the GT500 competes directly with the Vette -- not really. GT500 MSRP is $41,600 and MSRP on the Corvette is $44,995. That's a difference of $3,395. On top of that, the GT500 has four seats, and is a suped-up pony car. It also has 500 hp versus the Corvette's 400 hp. Sure, it's all power to weight, but 500 for under $50,000 was unheard of until the GT500. All of the reviews I've read have listed the GT500's main problem being a traction limitation because the tires aren't grippy enough. That isn't really a cajones problem, that's a shoe problem. Get some new shoes, and it should keep up with the Vette if not exceed the Vette. I'm not knocking on the Vette, it is what it is, but the GT500 would be my pick any day for the looks, performance, interiors, ergonomics, and comfort.

Anyway, it doesn't really matter that much. GT500s are going to appeal to their audience, and Corvettes are going to appeal to theirs. I don't think a lot of people are going to cross shop. They appeal to entirely different markets.

but it still doesn't compare to the interior on my pontiac GTO

There aren't any American-made interiors that compete with the GTO. Do you know why? The GTO is not an American made car. Think as you might, but when push comes to shove, it's not. It's based off from the Holden Monaro which is produced by GM of Australia who actually knows how to craft an interior. I'm sure you know this, or if you don't, you're probably in denial. (Ford of Austalia has it down too, which makes me wonder why we get crap from Ford compared to what they get too - although it is improving.)


its very evident that you both are GM haters.. its not that i'm a GM fan boy, its that you guys are too far off on the GM hater side to be reasonable.


I'm not a GM hater. I'm not sure how you think I'm too far on the "GM hater" side to be reasonable, but okay. I like Fords better than GM, yes, but I don't hate GM. I think GM makes some pretty good pushrod powerplants. I think that's their forte. Ford has chosen the cammed route with DOHC and SOHC technologies on their heads, which makes for smoother power, but not necessarily more.

I really liked what GM did with the C5 exterior. It looked very nice.

I suppose that makes me a hater too.



You can talk crap about GM cars and their crappy interior and exteriors all you want, but there is a reason why GM is the #1/biggest auto manufacturer in the world, if everyone thought that they were horrible like you, then they wouldn't be #1 would they. And in current times, GM is doing better then Ford is, that also tells a story.

What does GM being #1 in automobile production have to do with their design and quality? To be honest, being big is more of a handicap to quality than it is an asset. The only thing being big has done for GM and Ford is allow them to have a lot of capital input flows into their production. But, that isn't really a good thing right now. Economies of scale aren't really helping Ford and GM right now because they are so big and bloated that their costs exceed any gain they have because of their size. Economies of scale is more an entrance limitation to the automobile industry than a help once you're establishd. Toyota is living proof. You say that GM is the largest manufacturer of automobiles, and this is true, for now. But, if you talk in terms of how much money a corporation has in reserve, and how much profit a corporation has, take a look at Toyota. Toyota's profit margin per vehicle is quite high, as is its cash reserve. There was a time when GM had so much capital, that they were big enough to show up as their own COUNTRY. Yes, that's right, they essentially were a country. But, GM was really caught flat-footed because of this. They became lazy and started ignoring market demands as their cash cows like their pickups and various styles of cars based on the same parts bin were being sold for considerable markup. They thought they were invincable. Flint, MI saw lay off after lay off. This was at a time that GM was recording record profits. But they weren't enough for the CEO at the time. So, he shut down plant after plant after plant in Flint, MI -- ruining what was once a growing town. Unemployment skyrocketed, and many people moved out of town. Flint, MI still suffers from some of the highest unemployment rates in the nation.

Just because GM produces a lot of stuff doesn't make them automatically the best at what you do. In fact, when you consider most items that are produced in high volumes, the quality tends to be lower. Low-production anything, whether it be cars, planes, bikes, tables, whatever you want, is almost always better quality because the quality control measures are easily controlled when things are built in low volumes.

In fact, in this regard, Porsche is the best car company out there. Their profit margins are higher than anybody out there can touch. GM might produce a lot of cars, but in truth, that is more of a hidderance to quality control than it is a help. Toyota is starting to find this same pattern out for themselves. As they continue to grow, they are realizing that even they can fall victim to the ugly face of recall.

As far as GM being in better shape than Ford, neither of us know one way or the other. I personally think Ford has more new products an better products. GM's sheer size alone gives it a disadvantage in its current position. (Crippled with even more health care and retirement payments than even Ford.) The thing I really don't think people understand is that GM and Ford - it's highly unlikely that they'd go under, and no, they won't need government bail outs. The most that will happen, and it's happening right now, is that they'll downsize. Personally I'd rather see GM and Ford deal in smaller volumes anyway. Maybe then they'll make better cars and stop being the punchline in every joke. No more Generally Miserable or Fix or Repair Dailys ...

[Corsis]

The Mustang isnt all as American as the GTO either. An american Car legend like the Mustang cant even clame being American made as it doesnt have the requirements set by the American Automobile Labeling Act. All be it that thing is quite stupid, just interesting that you will poke fun at the GTO for being Australian yet the Mustang is less American then a Toyota Camry.

[Cameron H]

The Mustang isnt all as American as the GTO either. An american Car legend like the Mustang cant even clame being American made as it doesnt have the requirements set by the American Automobile Labeling Act. All be it that thing is quite stupid, just interesting that you will poke fun at the GTO for being Australian yet the Mustang is less American then a Toyota Camry.

Well atleast its a original design, and not a rip off of some other car Ford has or any of the companys ford owns...

[SVT_MAN]

The Mustang isnt all as American as the GTO either. An american Car legend like the Mustang cant even clame being American made as it doesnt have the requirements set by the American Automobile Labeling Act. All be it that thing is quite stupid, just interesting that you will poke fun at the GTO for being Australian yet the Mustang is less American then a Toyota Camry.

:rolleyes: I wasn't poking fun at the GTO. It's better that it is built in Australia. Lord knows they've built better quality cars down there for years! I didn't say they were better looking. I think they're a bit tepid personally.

And, the Mustang is built in America. It's built at AutoAlliance in Flat Rock, MI. Its parts contents might not all be American made, but that has little to do with it as you'll learn from my explanation below. It is an American design built by an American car company for American drivers.

If you want to listen to that bureacratic bull in that act from Congress, a group of people who have studied their own butt cracks for such a long period that I'm surprised they haven't found a cure for rectal cancer yet, go ahead . With this American Automobile Labeling Act, they have made quotas and black inked everything even further, yet what does it accomplish? If we're really on-board with this whole idea of globalization, why do we care where a car's parts are made? Let's take the example of a mansion made in Beverly Hills. Is a building in Beverly Hills, California, considered a Brazilian construction because it uses Brazilian timber? Is it considered Chinese because that's where its door locks were manufactured? Of course not! If it's built by Americans on our soil, why would it be considered a Brazilian-built house or a Chinese-built house? It's just plain loony to say that a car isn't American because it uses parts from other countries. In today's global economy, that is simply not practical. The only reason that we're seeing this kind of labeling is because companies like Toyota are looking to change their perception to consumers. Sure, they are respected for building good cars as a Japanese company, but they figure that if they can play both cards, Japanese quality and American parts they can achieve even greater market share. How are they doing it? With deep pockets and a little help from Uncle Sam. Deep deep pockets from a company like Toyota who is pouring their dollars into the pockets of our American politicians in the form of campaign contributions. Rest assured, Republicans and Democrats have been paid by Toyota and other corporations to get an act like this. I'm sure it was all very legal, but indirect or not, they were paid ..

And before you say it, yes, I know that the act is from 1992. Toyota is an extremely forward-looking company and they deserve extreme respect for their witty manuevers and how well they understand the market. They have an uncanny ability to predict what will happen in the future and cater to the needs of their customers. For that, they deserve extreme respect. I can't say I like any of their vehicles, but I respect them as a company. Their current market growth and dominance is as a result of years of planning and hard work.

With that said, maybe you can see why it really doesn't really matter where the car's parts are sourced from or even where it is built. Regardless of what some fat cats in office say, to me an American car is a car built by Americans for Americans. And, when I say Americans, I include Canada and Mexico, too. Both are part of North America and both Ford and GM have long used Canada to build engines and autos.

All I was saying is that the GTO's body work doesn't look very American at all. Design, to me, is what determines whether a car is American or something else. The GTO --it doesn't look Pontiac. Its soul isn't the GTO we knew. It's Holden Monaro, which is a very different car than the GTO was. The same thing happened to the Mustang during the fuel crisis. Mustangs lacked the original charisma and aura about them until about the 94 models. They just plain didn't look "Mustang." I'm a reasonable person, but people who just look at the parts content on the car are generally looking for reasons other than its character and spirit when they purchase a car. The Mustang embodies the American spirit. The GTO is a great car, I just don't think it looks or feels American. It's not necessarily a bad thing, like I was saying, it just isn't American.

[bimmerlovere39]

Might I say that there are alot of cars that can perform very well in the 75K range, there are other options, such as the DINAN S3-R M3, running a 467bhp 3.2L I6.

And as far as engineering, I am not impressed by the Viper nor the Vette's engine.
500BHP. Impressive. But the way they get it is... antiquated. "Make the engine big." Gee, how High-tech.

Not.

BMW's S54 I6: 3.2L, NA, 333HP, 104HP/L
Dinan's S3-R S54 I6: 3.2L, SC, 467HP, 145HP/L
Mercedes-AMG "65" V12: 6.0L, TC, 604HP, 100HP/L
Porsche 997 GT3 F6: 3.6L, NA, 415HP, 115HP/L
Porsche 997 Turbo F6: 3.6L, TC, 480HP, 133HP/L

Dodge Viper V10: 8.3L, NA, 510HP, 61HP/L
Corvette C6 V8: 6.2L, NA, 400HP, 64HP/L
Corvette C6 Z06 V8: 7.0L, NA, 505HP, 72HP/L

To get the same power, BMW only needs 5.0L, as in the M5 and M6.

Porsche Would probably be able to get it on the new GT2, bu that's just a guess. We know they can get 520HP from the Cayenne Turbo S's Turbo'd 4.5L V8.

Mercedes uses 6.3 Liters.

Dinan can get 467HP out of 3.2L. He's planning a 500hp lowered compression version (so they can run increaded boost)

[SVT_MAN]

Might I say that there are alot of cars that can perform very well in the 75K range, there are other options, such as the DINAN S3-R M3, running a 467bhp 3.2L I6.

And as far as engineering, I am not impressed by the Viper nor the Vette's engine.
500BHP. Impressive. But the way they get it is... antiquated. "Make the engine big." Gee, how High-tech.

Not.

BMW's S54 I6: 3.2L, NA, 333HP, 104HP/L
Dinan's S3-R S54 I6: 3.2L, SC, 467HP, 145HP/L
Mercedes-AMG "65" V12: 6.0L, TC, 604HP, 100HP/L
Porsche 997 GT3 F6: 3.6L, NA, 415HP, 115HP/L
Porsche 997 Turbo F6: 3.6L, TC, 480HP, 133HP/L

Dodge Viper V10: 8.3L, NA, 510HP, 61HP/L
Corvette C6 V8: 6.2L, NA, 400HP, 64HP/L
Corvette C6 Z06 V8: 7.0L, NA, 505HP, 72HP/L

To get the same power, BMW only needs 5.0L, as in the M5 and M6.

Porsche Would probably be able to get it on the new GT2, bu that's just a guess. We know they can get 520HP from the Cayenne Turbo S's Turbo'd 4.5L V8.

Mercedes uses 6.3 Liters.

Dinan can get 467HP out of 3.2L. He's planning a 500hp lowered compression version (so they can run increaded boost)

Who cares how you get the power? It doesn't really mean anything. I think more useful measurements are things like: Does it run on premium or regular fuel? What type of gas mileage does it get?

Those are practical things. These hp / liter numbers are nice for manufacturers to brag about and bench racers to argue about but they don't mean squat on the road.

By the way, I can NOT believe you just compared some forced-induction engines to naturally aspirated engines. :weird:

To get the same power, BMW only needs 5.0L, as in the M5 and M6.

That's because BMW and a lot of other European car companies tune for high revving HP instead of torque. The Corvette has a broader and flatter torque curve than the BMW more than likely, even without DOHCs, a ton of valves, etc.

[mopar4life]

Beemer your comparing a little wanna be turbo engine to a large cubic inch American engine. Like they say there is no replacment for displacment.

SVT I agree with you 100%

[bimmerlovere39]

Beemer your comparing a little wanna be turbo engine to a large cubic inch American engine. Like they say there is no replacment for displacment.

My god! Get over your love of cylinders the sizes of your rear wheels!

Fine. Get red of the turbos and the supers.

What about the M5/6's V10? the M3/Z4M I6? The GT3's F6? The Mercedes "63"? The Audi RS4's 4.2L 420HP V10? Well? None of these cars are torgue-less. I'm not talking about an S2000 here.

And there are 3 replacments:

Forced Induction
Revs
Technology

And my name is bImmer.
NOT bEEmer.

[bigblazer87]

Well, it's not necessarily the size of the cylinder that determines the displacement, the stroke has a lot to do with it too. Cubic inches (or cubic centimeters for metric) is the measure of the combustion chamber's volume at bottom-dead-center (BDC), which is then multiplied by the number of cylinders for the engines total displacement.

[Innerg]

Might I say that there are alot of cars that can perform very well in the 75K range, there are other options, such as the DINAN S3-R M3, running a 467bhp 3.2L I6.

And as far as engineering, I am not impressed by the Viper nor the Vette's engine.
500BHP. Impressive. But the way they get it is... antiquated. "Make the engine big." Gee, how High-tech.

Not.

BMW's S54 I6: 3.2L, NA, 333HP, 104HP/L
Dinan's S3-R S54 I6: 3.2L, SC, 467HP, 145HP/L
Mercedes-AMG "65" V12: 6.0L, TC, 604HP, 100HP/L
Porsche 997 GT3 F6: 3.6L, NA, 415HP, 115HP/L
Porsche 997 Turbo F6: 3.6L, TC, 480HP, 133HP/L

Dodge Viper V10: 8.3L, NA, 510HP, 61HP/L
Corvette C6 V8: 6.2L, NA, 400HP, 64HP/L
Corvette C6 Z06 V8: 7.0L, NA, 505HP, 72HP/L

To get the same power, BMW only needs 5.0L, as in the M5 and M6.

Porsche Would probably be able to get it on the new GT2, bu that's just a guess. We know they can get 520HP from the Cayenne Turbo S's Turbo'd 4.5L V8.

Mercedes uses 6.3 Liters.


Dinan can get 467HP out of 3.2L. He's planning a 500hp lowered compression version (so they can run increaded boost)


Ok smart boy,.... Lets do down your list... first off

1. BMW's S54 I6: 3.2L, NA, 333HP, 104HP/L

IT IS NOT close to the performance of the Viper or Vette. Try again.



2. Dinan's S3-R S54 I6: 3.2L, SC, 467HP, 145HP/L

LOL this is after market. This is not a factory option.


3. Mercedes-AMG "65" V12: 6.0L, TC, 604HP, 100HP/L

Is 180,000 dollars.. not 75K, you are only 105K off.... and the performance still isn't close to the Vette or Viper.

4. Porsche 997 GT3 F6: 3.6L, NA, 415HP, 115HP/L

Is 3600cc
415bhp@7600rpm
405Nm@5500rpm
redline 8400rpm
unladen weight (DIN) 1395kg
Top Speed 310kph/193mph
0-62mph 4.3 seconds
0-99mph 8.7 seconds

Price starting at 120,000 dollars. Hmm thats not 75K... and its still not as fast as the Vette.

5. Porsche 997 Turbo F6: 3.6L, TC, 480HP, 133HP/L

0-60 3.7 seconds
1/4 mile 12.2 seconds
Price is starting at 122,000 dollars. Hmm thats not 75K either, and its still not as fast as the Vette.



NOT ONE of the cars you mentioned is even remotely close to the Vette or the Viper price/performance wise. This is the process you need to do. Understand what is being said. Investigate your idea. Comprehend what you investigated. Then type. Come again.

[bimmerlovere39]

Ok smart boy,.... Lets do down your list... first off

1. BMW's S54 I6: 3.2L, NA, 333HP, 104HP/L

IT IS NOT close to the performance of the Viper or Vette. Try again.



2. Dinan's S3-R S54 I6: 3.2L, SC, 467HP, 145HP/L

LOL this is after market. This is not a factory option.


3. Mercedes-AMG "65" V12: 6.0L, TC, 604HP, 100HP/L

Is 180,000 dollars.. not 75K, you are only 105K off.... and the performance still isn't close to the Vette or Viper.

4. Porsche 997 GT3 F6: 3.6L, NA, 415HP, 115HP/L

Is 3600cc
415bhp@7600rpm
405Nm@5500rpm
redline 8400rpm
unladen weight (DIN) 1395kg
Top Speed 310kph/193mph
0-62mph 4.3 seconds
0-99mph 8.7 seconds

Price starting at 120,000 dollars. Hmm thats not 75K... and its still not as fast as the Vette.

5. Porsche 997 Turbo F6: 3.6L, TC, 480HP, 133HP/L

0-60 3.7 seconds
1/4 mile 12.2 seconds
Price is starting at 122,000 dollars. Hmm thats not 75K either, and its still not as fast as the Vette.



NOT ONE of the cars you mentioned is even remotely close to the Vette or the Viper price/performance wise. This is the process you need to do. Understand what is being said. Investigate your idea. Comprehend what you investigated. Then type. Come again.


Yeah, genius, I the 75K comment only applied to the first paragraph. the rest of the rant was about how atiquated the Viper and Vette engines are.

[bimmerlovere39]

Well, it's not necessarily the size of the cylinder that determines the displacement, the stroke has a lot to do with it too. Cubic inches (or cubic centimeters for metric) is the measure of the combustion chamber's volume at bottom-dead-center (BDC), which is then multiplied by the number of cylinders for the engines total displacement.

I know. It's a figure of speech

[Innerg]

Yeah, genius, I the 75K comment only applied to the first paragraph. the rest of the rant was about how atiquated the Viper and Vette engines are.

LOL you still didn't even come up with a car that is comparable at 75K. Look little kid, you obviously don't know how the engine actually works. Antiquated you say? You don't even know what you are talking about. Out of date... no longer up to times... is this why a N/A Vette and Viper motor is spanking every car that you listed in your rant? Most if not all of them needed forced induction to get their hp numbers. So why is an Antiuated motor beating them? What does that say for the car motors that you listed if its getting beat by an antiquated motor?

[bigblazer87]

LOL you still didn't even come up with a car that is comparable at 75K. Look little kid, you obviously don't know how the engine actually works. Antiquated you say? You don't even know what you are talking about. Out of date... no longer up to times... is this why a N/A Vette and Viper motor is spanking every car that you listed in your rant? Most if not all of them needed forced induction to get their hp numbers. So why is an Antiuated motor beating them? What does that say for the car motors that you listed if its getting beat by a antiquated motor?

I am unbiased in all of this, so don't flame me, but I think it shows "antiquated" motors are big, with the LS7 at 7.0L, and the Viper at 8.1L. The LS7 is a marvel of technology while still using pushrods, because it makes all of that power on pumpgas, reliably, naturally aspirated, and with good fuel consumption. The Viper, is simple in it's approach, make it big to make big power.

[kmizzle69]

hah great

[Innerg]

I am unbiased in all of this, so don't flame me, but I think it shows "antiquated" motors are big, with the LS7 at 7.0L, and the Viper at 8.1L. The LS7 is a marvel of technology while still using pushrods, because it makes all of that power on pumpgas, reliably, naturally aspirated, and with good fuel consumption. The Viper, is simple in it's approach, make it big to make big power.

What this beemer boy wants us to believe is that the Vette and Viper motors are a has been. This is not the case, and i just proved him wrong.

[mopar4life]

Especially with the new Viper tuned by McLaren, and the rumored Corevette SS or Stingray both with 600+ Horsepower.

[Innerg]

Especially with the new Viper tuned by McLaren, and the rumored Corevette SS or Stingray both with 600+ Horsepower.


Beemer Boy doesn't understand that you can take a little motor and force induct it, and get some hp, but when you take a big motor thats already fast with N/A then put forced induction on it.. it makes some really big hp. Hey Beemer boy, let me know when 4 bangers and I5's start taking king of the hill over "Antiquated" V8's in NHRA drag races. The Cylinders in an motor can only make so much hp before they start becoming unreliable. The saying goes the more hp the less reliable. For example, if you have a 300hp I4, thats 75hp per cylinder. Now lets take a 300hp V8, thats 37hp per cylinder... which one do you think is going to last longer? Hmmm maybe the one with half the stress? I think so. The V8 doesn't need to stress each cylinder to get the 300hp like the I4. You can turbo or SC a small motor all you want, but it will not last long, too much stress per cylinder. Sure you can get forged internals but that costs an arm and a leg for you little motor to make it a little more reliable, but the V8 can also do the same. Just know that the bigger motor can alway make more hp then the smaller.

[mopar4life]

Stick it to him. His little inline crap motors are WEAK. If you need a turbo or SC to make power get a scooter.

[elementdude72]

i saw 427 and i was hoping it was a big block... yea i know a 427 small block is lighter, but it would still be kickass to see the big block come back.

anyway looks pretty wicked. :up:

[joemamma]

Adding HP on 4 bangers takes big bucks. Add 4 more cylinders, and cut costs in half. Even if the engines are pushrod activated, they are still technically advanced.

[elementdude72]

Adding HP on 4 bangers takes big bucks. Add 4 more cylinders, and cut costs in half. Even if the engines are pushrod activated, they are still technically advanced.

werd

[LuminousAphid]

I'm glad some people with common sense have taken over this thread and the ignorant and mislead ones have left. :)

In any case, I'd rather put my ears through the roar of a v8 or v10 than the squeel of a high-rev engine or the annoying whistle of a turbo any day.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEdOrCndXxI

Some of the mustangs are bad, but the viper is superb.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-OO6JGldwk&mode=related&search=

And both these just sound weak.

[elementdude72]

nice vids. i loved the sound of that cobras supercharger.

but that was one wicked supra, eh? high 14's in the quarter :lol-sign:

[Brovsky]

A 650Bhp won't make any difference then. It'll just be near the pack, but it won't be killing anything. The car doesn't even have better engineering that a Viper. Both run on completely equal levels on the track. The C5R has been not been a success at all in the FIA GT, esp. when the Vipers had the most wins of a model.

As for racing, where engineering really shows, the C6R constantly has to fight with the DBR9s, and in the FIA GT3, only 1 Vette has beat a Viper. 5 Vipers came seconds behind a Z06R which was defeated by 2 DBRS9s for race 2. In race 1, the Vipers won 1-2 with the Corvettes behind them 3-4.
At Spa, in Race 2, the Viper won. The best finishing Corvette was 9th. Race 1, belonged to the Viper as well. The Corvette came 3rd behind a Porsche.

Better engineering because of a drag strip? Hardly. The Viper has always been a more successful race car than the Corvettes, so the engineering really belongs to the Vipers, not the Vette.
What the **** are you babbling about? The Corvette racing program has won the manufacturers championship in the ALMS for 5 years straight, driver's championship 4 years straight, 1st place in GTS/GT1 class 5 out of the last 7 years at the 24 hours of Le Mans (and a number of those were 1-2 finishes), and a top five finish in every one of the last 7 years.

Show me any significant impact Vipers have had in racing.

Edit: Whoops, should've read the rest of the thread first.

[Diab]

This is why you can never have a decent conversation about cars in a US forum, it always comes down to drag racing which noone but the US really gives a sh!t about anyway. Out of all the US cars you guys have mentioned only the Z06 is really comparable on a track to most of those great Nurburgring runners like the 911, Skyline, NSX, Ferrari's, BMW's etc...

So shove your straight line speed, your from a roll straight line speed up your ass cause I hate coming onto a mainly US board to talk about cars and a select narrow-minded few always take it onto the strip. We don't care about a straight piece of tarmac. Look at our race series' and notice we like to have fun in our cars and concentrate for more than 6-14secs along a 1/4 mile.

The sound of a big V8 is good yeah and they are great cruisers but by hell they can't do f*** all else, read evo magazine instead of your biased US rubbish and find out what a real and respected automotive publication does and says about all these cars.

The Z06 is the only decent car the US has to offer right now, the GT is good too but it still isn't much fun for the driver and this is what most europeans and the rest of the world look for in a car, what it's like to drive, what feedback it gives back to the driver and how it works in everyday situations as well as a real race track.

Come on guys use that brake pedal more than once on a track for once.

[sweetpea 50]

Shove your straight line speed huh:rolleyes: How would you know that a Ford GT isn't fun to drive, have you got time behind the wheel? I guess it comes down to personal prefrence as to what "fun" is. To some it might be the razor sharp handling of a lotus. To others it might be a 9 second blast in 1/4 mile. Whatever floats your boat. It's just funny to me that an "American POS" can down right SMOKE Ferrari 430's in any driving scenario for 70 grand:haha:

[Innerg]

This is why you can never have a decent conversation about cars in a US forum, it always comes down to drag racing which noone but the US really gives a sh!t about anyway. Out of all the US cars you guys have mentioned only the Z06 is really comparable on a track to most of those great Nurburgring runners like the 911, Skyline, NSX, Ferrari's, BMW's etc...

So shove your straight line speed, your from a roll straight line speed up your ass cause I hate coming onto a mainly US board to talk about cars and a select narrow-minded few always take it onto the strip. We don't care about a straight piece of tarmac. Look at our race series' and notice we like to have fun in our cars and concentrate for more than 6-14secs along a 1/4 mile.

The sound of a big V8 is good yeah and they are great cruisers but by hell they can't do f*** all else, read evo magazine instead of your biased US rubbish and find out what a real and respected automotive publication does and says about all these cars.

The Z06 is the only decent car the US has to offer right now, the GT is good too but it still isn't much fun for the driver and this is what most europeans and the rest of the world look for in a car, what it's like to drive, what feedback it gives back to the driver and how it works in everyday situations as well as a real race track.

Come on guys use that brake pedal more than once on a track for once.

Do you really want to bring back this thread and get me started again? The choice is yours... but you will lose.

[Twerp128]

This is why you can never have a decent conversation about cars in a US forum, it always comes down to drag racing which noone but the US really gives a sh!t about anyway. Out of all the US cars you guys have mentioned only the Z06 is really comparable on a track to most of those great Nurburgring runners like the 911, Skyline, NSX, Ferrari's, BMW's etc...

So shove your straight line speed, your from a roll straight line speed up your ass cause I hate coming onto a mainly US board to talk about cars and a select narrow-minded few always take it onto the strip. We don't care about a straight piece of tarmac. Look at our race series' and notice we like to have fun in our cars and concentrate for more than 6-14secs along a 1/4 mile.

The sound of a big V8 is good yeah and they are great cruisers but by hell they can't do f*** all else, read evo magazine instead of your biased US rubbish and find out what a real and respected automotive publication does and says about all these cars.

The Z06 is the only decent car the US has to offer right now, the GT is good too but it still isn't much fun for the driver and this is what most europeans and the rest of the world look for in a car, what it's like to drive, what feedback it gives back to the driver and how it works in everyday situations as well as a real race track.

Come on guys use that brake pedal more than once on a track for once.

Amen! And if Im correct the majority of people in Europe drive manuals.

[Innerg]

Amen! And if Im correct the majority of people in Europe drive manuals.

You know if anything.. if i had to pick between fast in a straight line or nothing but handling.. i would pick the power. You know why? Because i use the power everyday. When do i really get to use the handling that you think is so great and needed for everyday cars? I can drag race people at the stop lights for fun. I can get a rush of adrenaline when i step on it. Handling can't do that for me. I would have to go way.... WAY out of my way to find some road with curves on it.. just to use my suspension if i picked handling. BUT HEY you can go to a track to use your handling! Pfft give me a freakin break. When am i ever going to do that? Like never. You can take your handling and shove it... i don't want it. Have fun using it like 1 time a year. While I use mine everyday.

[Twerp128]

Well, thats great for you, do what you like. But, some of us use it every day, every corner has an Apex, and ON RAMPS! And I get out to several SCCA events and track days a year, and I still have plenty of power, I just dont spin my tires every time Im on it.

[Innerg]

Well, thats great for you, do what you like. But, some of us use it every day, every corner has an Apex, and ON RAMPS! And I get out to several SCCA events and track days a year, and I still have plenty of power, I just dont spin my tires every time Im on it.


Well thats great for you, do what you like, i hope 50 hp is enough for you.

[Twerp128]

Actually, 160 HP. And yes, yes it is.

[Innerg]

Actually, 160 HP. And yes, yes it is.

Ouch.. enough said.

[Twerp128]

Like I said its all about the handling. I have a friend in the SCCA with a Elise, that has left many a arrogant Mustang driver in the dust.

[Cammer]

why are you guys wasting your time trying to convice each other that one form of racing is better than another? any drag racer who tells you they wouldn't enjoy carving around a mountain road and any road racer who tells you they wouldn't get enjoyment out of a brutally quick 1/4 mile run is LYING to you. You can't have it all in any car, so quit talking **** and go play tdu

[dngrusd]

Like I said its all about the handling. I have a friend in the SCCA with a Elise, that has left many a arrogant Mustang driver in the dust.

And that lotus cost how much?
I personally own an old beat up 90 mustang that has a total (including purchas price) of 25k in it. Wana bet my lap times at PIR are a whole lot closer than you think... (to that of the elise)
Just because we choose american iron as our weapon of choice, dont think that we all are hung up on going fast in a strait line....
Do you read car and driver? If so do you know what the Maximum Motorsports "shop car" is? (hint its a stang)
Care to guess how well it carves the twisties?
Im not putting the elise or porsches or whatever down... if I won the powerball Id have a few, but lets be real...
The c6 zo6 put down some of the quickest lap times at Nuremburgh (sp?) ever run by a production vehicle. (top 10 if I remember right) Now in my book that is pretty amazing for an old pushrod v8, in a package thats "only" 65K. Some of the others that ran similar times are 100K+ even 200K+ ferraris, porsches, lambos, etc... thats pretty good company to be in. (espitially for a chevy :D )

Dave

[Twerp128]

I'm sure he payed a pretty penny for that elise, and lets face it there are many mustang owners with stock everything and 19" rims, those are who get smoked. You'd have equal/better times at PIR, but in autocross the elise is the better toy. And the Z06 is not in the top 10 times at Nurburgring, I believe you are thinking of the "Blue Devil" Z06, which although very fast, not in the top 10 either.

[rbcito1977]

I love how they say little I6 or 4cyl..turbo crap..LOL..i love it..Now let me learn you guys who cant see past American Muscle cars or "There is No Replacement for Displacement" grow up and read a little..there is a world past American Muscle..yes it might be less money but you wanna car that you can use everyday..not race everyone from stop light to stop light..
For Example take a Supra TT engine..Stock internals it can handle 1200rwhp the trans in stock form can take over 1600rwhp of launches....now tell me any American Car that can take that abuse on stock internals.. I would love to know..In the past I spent tons of money on my Mustang Forged internals Forced Induction and never got even close..
Truth is the America Car makers do not know how to build a proper car..yeah they will give you all the power you want..but you get short changed on ameneties like interiors..Dont get me wrong the new C6 is one of the vettes best since the 60's but the did not finish it..i mean come on leaf springs in the rear suspension..yeah that took a whole bunch of designing for that..i dont even think pickups even use that anymore..IMO the Z06 could have been great, but it fell short..Now i will be waiting for the following replies> yeah it has this HP and its faster than this for this amount..sorry i am not a bargain shopper or at least not when it comes to cars..For me a car has to perform look great..that is all..
Second my lil V6TT will outrun alot of cars today including new C6's and maybe even a Z06..yes it is upgraded on stock internals..but is so funny looking at people faces when they get smoked on the highway or stop light by my little V6 3.0L..and yes it is old ('91) and was far superior in performance technology compared to American cars even today..
Oh yeah my car gets 26mpg..not 18..I wish i drove it everyday I would see more unhappy faces..

[bigblazer87]

EDITED FOR STUPIDITY

[rbcito1977]

Please do your research before speaking here is some info on your hi tech suspension vettes..i am tired of correcting the people that think they know it all..Corvettes never had coilovers sorry, and please tell me where you found that info..trust me my C5 didnt have it, maybe i did not have the Special Edition one..heres an old link that i used when i needed suspension parts for my C5.. http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/tech/c4/susp_chart.html
Here is some more info on the current C6 Z06..Obviously you need more info on this car..
Transmission
Corvette coupe
Corvette Z06

Type:
Hydra-Matic 4L65-E 4-speed auto.; Tremec 6-speed manual
Tremec 6-speed manual

Chassis / Suspension

Front:
short/long arm ( SLA ) double wishbone, cast aluminum upper & lower control arms, transverse-mounted composite leaf spring, monotube shock absorber
short/long arm ( SLA ) double wishbone, cast aluminum upper & lower control arms, transverse-mounted composite leaf spring, monotube shock absorber

Rear:
short/long arm ( SLA ) double wishbone, cast aluminum upper & lower control arms, transverse-mounted composite leaf spring, monotube shock absorber
short/long arm ( SLA ) double wishbone, cast aluminum upper & lower control arms, transverse-mounted composite leaf spring, monotube shock absorber

Traction control:
electronic traction control; Active Handling
electronic traction control; Active Handling


Anymore info you need?..

[bigblazer87]

Please do your research before speaking here is some info on your hi tech suspension vettes..i am tired of correcting the people that think they know it all..Corvettes never had coilovers sorry, and please tell me where you found that info..trust me my C5 didnt have it, maybe i did not have the Special Edition one..heres an old link that i used when i needed suspension parts for my C5.. http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/tech/c4/susp_chart.html
Here is some more info on the current C6 Z06..Obviously you need more info on this car..
Transmission
Corvette coupe
Corvette Z06

Type:
Hydra-Matic 4L65-E 4-speed auto.; Tremec 6-speed manual
Tremec 6-speed manual

Chassis / Suspension

Front:
short/long arm ( SLA ) double wishbone, cast aluminum upper & lower control arms, transverse-mounted composite leaf spring, monotube shock absorber
short/long arm ( SLA ) double wishbone, cast aluminum upper & lower control arms, transverse-mounted composite leaf spring, monotube shock absorber

Rear:
short/long arm ( SLA ) double wishbone, cast aluminum upper & lower control arms, transverse-mounted composite leaf spring, monotube shock absorber
short/long arm ( SLA ) double wishbone, cast aluminum upper & lower control arms, transverse-mounted composite leaf spring, monotube shock absorber

Traction control:
electronic traction control; Active Handling
electronic traction control; Active Handling


Anymore info you need?..

Admitted my stupidity in the other thread; but I haven't started taking interests in Corvettes until the Z06 comes out, before then I was interested in the more attainable and modifiable cars (lot of forgotten "musclecars", such as the Vega). Again, sorry.

[Innerg]

I love how they say little I6 or 4cyl..turbo crap..LOL..i love it..Now let me learn you guys who cant see past American Muscle cars or "There is No Replacement for Displacement" grow up and read a little..there is a world past American Muscle..yes it might be less money but you wanna car that you can use everyday..not race everyone from stop light to stop light..
For Example take a Supra TT engine..Stock internals it can handle 1200rwhp the trans in stock form can take over 1600rwhp of launches....now tell me any American Car that can take that abuse on stock internals.. I would love to know..In the past I spent tons of money on my Mustang Forged internals Forced Induction and never got even close..
Truth is the America Car makers do not know how to build a proper car..yeah they will give you all the power you want..but you get short changed on ameneties like interiors..Dont get me wrong the new C6 is one of the vettes best since the 60's but the did not finish it..i mean come on leaf springs in the rear suspension..yeah that took a whole bunch of designing for that..i dont even think pickups even use that anymore..IMO the Z06 could have been great, but it fell short..Now i will be waiting for the following replies> yeah it has this HP and its faster than this for this amount..sorry i am not a bargain shopper or at least not when it comes to cars..For me a car has to perform look great..that is all..
Second my lil V6TT will outrun alot of cars today including new C6's and maybe even a Z06..yes it is upgraded on stock internals..but is so funny looking at people faces when they get smoked on the highway or stop light by my little V6 3.0L..and yes it is old ('91) and was far superior in performance technology compared to American cars even today..
Oh yeah my car gets 26mpg..not 18..I wish i drove it everyday I would see more unhappy faces..


:rolleyes: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :rolleyes: Let fix that for you, must of been a typo.. Supras can take upto 600hp on stock internals and stock block... not 1200hp. And can you please post pictures of your uber fast V6TT please.. i'm dying to see it..... the car, the motor and the twin turbos.

[rbcito1977]

:rolleyes: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :rolleyes: Let fix that for you, must of been a typo.. Supras can take upto 600hp on stock internals and stock block... not 1200hp. And can you please post pictures of your uber fast V6TT please.. i'm dying to see it..... the car, the motor and the twin turbos.

LOL..you are too much..Here is some quick info..please post a reply quickly..
"There have really not been enough failures to really pin point a limit for the various power-train components. The motor could fail at factory power levels if it was running dangerously lean. But when well tuned, the motors internals (Pistons, Rods, Crank, Head Gasket etc) are reliable past 700rwhp. But of course at these power levels, if the engine is not set-up and tuned properly, it is literally a bomb waiting to go off, however this would be just as true with a built motor. Some owners have pushed their stock internals to the limit and have well exceeded 800rwhp, and even approached 900rwhp. I still don’t understand how such an over built motor made it past the bean counters at Toyota Corporate."

First of all, if you know Supras (2JZ engine) you would know that they make the strongest engine ever besides Nissans RB26..Please go to supraforums.com and look up a couple of cars especially Ryan Woon car he went 9's without touching the block 1000+Hp..but hey i will gladly post that up for you and then maybe you can apologize as well..
Here are some members from www.to4r.com (http://www.to4r.com) please go through the site and see on the right side it will say pistons and rods oem(engine parts)..i will post as many as i can..also check out the VIP is selling or was..after i sold my C5, in wanted to buy one so my research on this car greatly exceeds yours..the reason i didnt buy one was because i wasnt going to pay 38K '93 w/100k miles wasnt worth it in my book..
http://to4r.com/member.php?show=tommy.banh
http://to4r.com/member.php?show=marcus.frost
http://i-supra.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/561608488/m/3721091471
Here is a Magazine article..please read it..then read it again
http://www.turbomagazine.com/features/0403tur_1998_toyota_supra/
Here is someone that swaped a (2JZ) Supra Motor into a 240sx
http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=91359&page=2&pp=25
"Actually, 900hp and counting.
I think it was in Sport Compact Car magazine, if not then I'm not sure where, but an article on some guy who got into the low 900's at the wheels, I think like 930hp, on a bone stock-blocked supra motor.
Ever since reading that article I've been convinced that the 2jz motor is the best built friggin motor on earth, and a real bargain. If I were ever going to swap another turbo motor into anything, this would be the motor I'd go for."
Here is a stock turbo supra 1/4times..oh yeah look up titan motorsports as well..wink wink..
http://www.titanmotorsports.com/nerodeliwala1.html

again someone with lack of Knowledge that is 15, just learning how to drive and i must teach, i think this might be showing my age..LOL...and yes i will post some pictures of my lil slow Domestic dominated (yeah right)V6TT as a matter fact search my screen name you will see pics of my car i have posted them here..here are some pics:
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b174/97modman/pics018-1.jpg

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b174/97modman/pics025.jpg
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b174/97modman/pics032.jpg

During my motor pull this year after slipping a bearing on the dyno..it suxed..one of the hardest cars to work on..but sometimes you have to pay to play..
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b174/97modman/Oldmotor.jpg

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b174/97modman/topbling.jpg
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b174/97modman/new.jpg




anything you wanna say?...LOL..

[fedaricko01]

yeah how much money you got in that thing?

[rbcito1977]

yeah how much money you got in that thing?

Well the engine this past year i put about $8k with the new turbos i saved tons of money by doing the work with a couple of buddies.. the wheels were custom made for my car because they did not make them for it and Discontinued. I really wanted them so i had to contact a company called Option Motorsport and they contacted Rays in Japan.. They made them for me in a 2 piece design and Forged..$4K and 6 months later they arrived in the US..End Result..18x10 17lbs an 18x9 16lbs..wheels you wont find on another Z32..Priceless..LOL..
Performance Electronics EBC, AFC, WideBands, etc..$1K..
Suspension, Zeal Coilovers and a bunch of other things to work together $3K
Gauges..DEFI..My wife bought me those thank god..she spent under $1000 or so..She drives it when we go to the Poconos or Limerock, she loves driving the car on the track..I am buying her her own though looking at a new project..plus i dont like to share anymore..
I know i am forgeting alot more things but..i would say i have about 15K-18K not including the car..which is valued at (not KBB prices) $18K..mileage is at 80k and i have all my parts to bring it back to OEM..In the End i love my car..even though she is in the garage till next spring..but then again i like driving this daily..
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b174/97modman/pics004.jpg

My Wifes G..she wants me to TT it...yeah right..well maybe..
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b174/97modman/G35.jpg

[rbcito1977]

forgot the most important shot..the Money Shot
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b174/97modman/finished.jpg

[Twerp128]

You forgot to factor in how much you spend on tires!

[rbcito1977]

You forgot to factor in how much you spend on tires!

Well a set of slicks for Road Racing is about $700/per year..so its not that bad..

[fedaricko01]

thats not bad, but im a hardcore chevy fan... so im a lil biased, but nice car. i like the black sleeper loook, and then bam those turbos kick in and you are gone. they shouldve had that car in the game. my cousin has a 300 nissan but it is a non turbo car.

[rbcito1977]

thats not bad, but im a hardcore chevy fan... so im a lil biased, but nice car. i like the black sleeper loook, and then bam those turbos kick in and you are gone. they shouldve had that car in the game. my cousin has a 300 nissan but it is a non turbo car.

Thanks No problem..Different strokes for Different folks..i use to build Mustangs years ago..just got tired of them..i have owned a variety of different cars..I Love Cars..some times i wish my wife was a car i would trade her in every so often..LOL..
As the car sits it dynoed at 590 to the wheels on C16 @ 22psi..i have the BC set in 93 pump to 19psi she does 507rwhp..and for cruising i have it set to 11psi which yields me 425rwhp..not bad..0-60 times 4.2 seconds in the low settings what else do you need?...

[Innerg]

forgot the most important shot..the Money Shot
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b174/97modman/finished.jpg

Am i supposed to be impressed with this info? The only things that are stock on those cars are the pistons. And yet, they are only getting a little over 800hp not even close to 1200hp like you say. Also there is a difference between getting a block to run with that horsepower for a limited amount of time and having that power reliably. 1200hp is possible i'm sure, but it's not reliable like you say.

I also find it funny how you are saying nissan and toyota motors can hold so much hp but your motor blows up on a dyno run. Sounds reliable to me :rolleyes: And what do you mean by " the motor pull this year ".. you make it sound like you have to pull the motor and rebuild it every year...Again sounds reliable...
Also your 4.2 seconds from 0-60 isn't going to take down a stock 2006 base model vette let alone a C6 Z06 like you stated. What are you 1/4 miles times? Lets see some slips. Everyone and their brother knows that the supra motors are dyno queens. And dyno queens only. A Supra running 11.23 in the 1/4 with that much hp? Thats what a stock C6 Z06 runs with 505hp... sounds pretty sad doesnt it. If you want i'll show you a video of a Stock Block LS1 V8 running low 10's in the 1/4. And after some more testing they got it into the 9's in the 1/4. Nothing was done to the motor except adding twin turbo's. And those motors have been brutally tested for reliability for daily driving. Yet, even with the testing, common sense tells me that even that motor will not hold up over time. Its called reality. Something you know nothing about.

If i'm 15 then you must be 3 years old.

[rbcito1977]

Am i supposed to be impressed with this info? The only things that are stock on those cars are the pistons. And yet, they are only getting a little over 800hp not even close to 1200hp like you say. Also there is a difference between getting a block to run with that horsepower for a limited amount of time and having that power reliably. 1200hp is possible i'm sure, but it's not reliable like you say.

I also find it funny how you are saying nissan and toyota motors can hold so much hp but your motor blows up on a dyno run. Sounds reliable to me :rolleyes: And what do you mean by " the motor pull this year ".. you make it sound like you have to pull the motor and rebuild it every year...Again sounds reliable...
Also your 4.2 seconds from 0-60 isn't going to take down a stock 2006 base model vette let alone a C6 Z06 like you stated. What are you 1/4 miles times? Lets see some slips. Everyone and their brother knows that the supra motors are dyno queens. And dyno queens only. A Supra running 11.23 in the 1/4 with that much hp? Thats what a stock C6 Z06 runs with 505hp... sounds pretty sad doesnt it. If you want i'll show you a video of a Stock Block LS1 V8 running low 10's in the 1/4. And after some more testing they got it into the 9's in the 1/4. Nothing was done to the motor except adding twin turbo's. And those motors have been brutally tested for reliability for daily driving. Yet, even with the testing, common sense tells me that even that motor will not hold up over time. Its called reality. Something you know nothing about.

If i'm 15 then you must be 3 years old.

Yes you are suppose to be impressed...Twice...

Brainiac You really are.. well you know what you are..LOL..so i will say this again I said READ and then READ again..obviously you didnt..
Get your head out of your A$$ for once before you talk the car game..and please post some evidence for once with all this stock block nonsense you say, I have posted it why cant you? You have showed here through misinformation that you are not credible in any shape or form.. i need to see evidence like i have posted, all you do is talk and post links that people cant read..

The Supra motors that i posted all have OEM Pistons and Rods..forgot to mention that the..again you didnt read..and are well within the realm of 1200hp..READ!! http://nikalaus.dsl.ge/web/Eng/History/history_mk4.html
"SO THIS IS JUST ANOTHER IMPORT?
The MKIV Supra is far from just another import. Name one other car that can produce in excess of 900hp on factory engine internals! Toyota's attention to detail and philosophy of extraordinary over-engineering for the Supra's 2JZGTE engine makes this possible. Several Supras have trap speeds in excess of 140mph in the quarter mile, on unopened engines. This is a completely alien concept to the old school aspirated v8 brigade." http://to4r.com/faq.php
How much more should i post..? I dont mind doing it because other people will read and learn some cool info about other cars. So there knowledge grows..


Now for the kicker how is me saying "after the motor pull this year" mean that i pull it every year..Did you attend english class out there?..Let me teach you proper tenses and phrases.. School 101.. :
If i would have stated that i do it every year it would have sounded like this "and after another motor pull this year" or "and yet another Motor pull this year"..you see quite simple..now that we have taken care off that let see..
Why did i pull my motor this year?...well it was because i had injector failure in the #6 cylinder..why did i have injector failure? because when i had upgraded to a higher volume injectors the clamp near the "fuel dampner" slipped and was leaking fuel on that injector..Now it caused a "lean" mixture so after a couple of times of boosting in hot weather, well there was your result..after laughing a couple of times, it was time for the new motor that was sitting in the garage to go in, so it worked out..oh yeah my motor is very capable of handling 650hp at the crank..Nissan built my motor with Forged pistons unfortunately not the rods..number one thing that claims my motor when going up in power..

I could not find concrete evidence that supports the new C6 0-60 times some sites i see 4.1(est) others 3.9..ok lets explain why my cars 0-60 times are like that..well you see there is this thing called turbo lag..The C6 is NA with beefy torque thus propelling the car to a quick accel, also the C6 has shorter gearing mine has a taller gearing to provide more use of the turbos at speed..any car person would know this..Now that we got that out of the way..
I have raced a couple C6's..on my low boost setting and they get the jump on me if there a good driver..now i have more power than a C6 on Low..So this is what happens at 40mph..2 seconds later after they jump 2 cars in front me my turbos spool pretty hard and start making ground before we even hit 100mph i am next to him. well by the time i am at 120 he is 4-5 cars back..If you have never rode in a modified turbo car please do you are missing alot of fun..Now if i run it on Hi car is a absolute monster..in 3rd gear under full boost my car will slide into another lane while laying a nice even patch if you let it..
Sorry i dont have any time slips my car was not built for that..plus i got over that along time ago..i am a weekend warrior I like twist and turns and 30minute sessions doing laps..but i bet you live your
"Life a Quarter Mile at a Time" :up: ..LOL..

just some cool vids to pass the time..
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9219177931797830622&q=C6+corvette+vs&hl=en

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2680844391035418824&q=Supra+vs.&hl=en

I havent raced a Z06 but here is a guy on my site that had the opportunity the Z06 is a beast and his girl well she was very Happy..wink, wink..LOL.. also notice how the guy in the 300Z gives the guy props and notice what the guy says to him as well..common courtesy..and maturity..Enjoy..

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5919050213518820887&q=300Zx+vs&hl=enhttp://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5919050213518820887&q=300Zx+vs&hl=en (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5919050213518820887&q=300Zx+vs&hl=enhttp://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5919050213518820887&q=300Zx+vs&hl=en)

[rbcito1977]

A Supra running 11.23 in the 1/4 with that much hp? Thats what a stock C6 Z06 runs with 505hp... sounds pretty sad doesnt it. If you want i'll show you a video of a Stock Block LS1 V8 running low 10's in the 1/4. And after some more testing they got it into the 9's in the 1/4. Nothing was done to the motor except adding twin turbo's. And those motors have been brutally tested for reliability for daily driving. Yet, even with the testing, common sense tells me that even that motor will not hold up over time. Its called reality. Something you know nothing about.



Reading owns you..and its fundamental..

Stock Supra TT 320hp
Stock Z06 505hp

Supra Upgraded to BPU+++ which is max on stock turbo i believe 490hp at the crank..

Oh yeah, the Reality thing..I live it..Thats why i have a College Ed.

[sweetpea 50]

Nice car rbcito:up: I agree with you for the most part about the 2jz. It is a very stout powerplant. But the stock trans handling 1600 hp:weird: I'm not a Supra expert by any means, but I seriously doubt this. By the way, what do you think about the 03+ Cobras?

[rbcito1977]

Nice car rbcito:up: I agree with you for the most part about the 2jz. It is a very stout powerplant. But the stock trans handling 1600 hp:weird: I'm not a Supra expert by any means, but I seriously doubt this. By the way, what do you think about the 03+ Cobras?

it is very true..the Trans was not made by Japan..It's a Getrag 6 speed (German)..the worlds fastest Supra 6 speed has over 1300rwp and stock trans still..dont know how many passes but the car is very fast..just do a search on google video or youtube for 6 speed supra dyno..look at all the cars dynoed over 800rwp..they never change the trans if they want to make it a bonified strip car then they switch to 3speed or 4speed TH400 trans(think thats what its called)..

03 Cobras awesome car...all i could say is that Ford got it right with this car, IRS supension, tons of power and mod friendly, i think by changing the pulley and some other things you got like 60rwp..thats impressive..also some guys either upgrade the supercharger or change to single turbos..that engine is probably the strongest domestic engine i know..when i was into Mustangs a guy had switched to run a turbo setup and had 650rwp on a stock block..that was like 3yrs ago..the only thing that hurts the 03 Cobra is the aero dynamics..its like a brick wall when in highway runs..

[sweetpea 50]

Damn, I had no had idea that the Getrag was rated for that kinda of power. I've also have heard of Supras using th 400's that are strip monsters. I'ts good to see you hold the Cobras in high regard. I'm seriously thinking of getting one next spring. A co-woker of mine has a 2.4 kenne bell charged 03 and it hauls balls. He has not tracked it yet, but with a good driver behind the wheel, and sticky tires, high 10 second 1/4 mile passes are a lock. Good luck with 300zx:up:

[Innerg]

Yes you are suppose to be impressed...Twice...

Brainiac You really are.. well you know what you are..LOL..so i will say this again I said READ and then READ again..obviously you didnt..
Get your head out of your A$$ for once before you talk the car game..and please post some evidence for once with all this stock block nonsense you say, I have posted it why cant you? You have showed here through misinformation that you are not credible in any shape or form.. i need to see evidence like i have posted, all you do is talk and post links that people cant read..

The Supra motors that i posted all have OEM Pistons and Rods..forgot to mention that the..again you didnt read..and are well within the realm of 1200hp..READ!! http://nikalaus.dsl.ge/web/Eng/History/history_mk4.html
"SO THIS IS JUST ANOTHER IMPORT?
The MKIV Supra is far from just another import. Name one other car that can produce in excess of 900hp on factory engine internals! Toyota's attention to detail and philosophy of extraordinary over-engineering for the Supra's 2JZGTE engine makes this possible. Several Supras have trap speeds in excess of 140mph in the quarter mile, on unopened engines. This is a completely alien concept to the old school aspirated v8 brigade." http://to4r.com/faq.php
How much more should i post..? I dont mind doing it because other people will read and learn some cool info about other cars. So there knowledge grows..


Now for the kicker how is me saying "after the motor pull this year" mean that i pull it every year..Did you attend english class out there?..Let me teach you proper tenses and phrases.. School 101.. :
If i would have stated that i do it every year it would have sounded like this "and after another motor pull this year" or "and yet another Motor pull this year"..you see quite simple..now that we have taken care off that let see..
Why did i pull my motor this year?...well it was because i had injector failure in the #6 cylinder..why did i have injector failure? because when i had upgraded to a higher volume injectors the clamp near the "fuel dampner" slipped and was leaking fuel on that injector..Now it caused a "lean" mixture so after a couple of times of boosting in hot weather, well there was your result..after laughing a couple of times, it was time for the new motor that was sitting in the garage to go in, so it worked out..oh yeah my motor is very capable of handling 650hp at the crank..Nissan built my motor with Forged pistons unfortunately not the rods..number one thing that claims my motor when going up in power..

I could not find concrete evidence that supports the new C6 0-60 times some sites i see 4.1(est) others 3.9..ok lets explain why my cars 0-60 times are like that..well you see there is this thing called turbo lag..The C6 is NA with beefy torque thus propelling the car to a quick accel, also the C6 has shorter gearing mine has a taller gearing to provide more use of the turbos at speed..any car person would know this..Now that we got that out of the way..
I have raced a couple C6's..on my low boost setting and they get the jump on me if there a good driver..now i have more power than a C6 on Low..So this is what happens at 40mph..2 seconds later after they jump 2 cars in front me my turbos spool pretty hard and start making ground before we even hit 100mph i am next to him. well by the time i am at 120 he is 4-5 cars back..If you have never rode in a modified turbo car please do you are missing alot of fun..Now if i run it on Hi car is a absolute monster..in 3rd gear under full boost my car will slide into another lane while laying a nice even patch if you let it..
Sorry i dont have any time slips my car was not built for that..plus i got over that along time ago..i am a weekend warrior I like twist and turns and 30minute sessions doing laps..but i bet you live your
"Life a Quarter Mile at a Time" :up: ..LOL..

just some cool vids to pass the time..
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9219177931797830622&q=C6+corvette+vs&hl=en

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2680844391035418824&q=Supra+vs.&hl=en

I havent raced a Z06 but here is a guy on my site that had the opportunity the Z06 is a beast and his girl well she was very Happy..wink, wink..LOL.. also notice how the guy in the 300Z gives the guy props and notice what the guy says to him as well..common courtesy..and maturity..Enjoy..

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5919050213518820887&q=300Zx+vs&hl=enhttp://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5919050213518820887&q=300Zx+vs&hl=en (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5919050213518820887&q=300Zx+vs&hl=enhttp://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5919050213518820887&q=300Zx+vs&hl=en)
[U] :

Yet again you post nothing with that states 1200hp with factory internals. Oem pistons do not count as factory internals. There is far more then just pistons in a block. Again, 800hp is not even close to 1200hp like you stated. You just keep making yourself sound even more stupid the more you talk.

Do you want a video of a stock LS1 V8 running low 10's in the 1/4? Here you go. http://www.slyls1.com/videos/ls1turbo.WMV

Again a real stock motor, not only are the pistons stock, but the cam, rods, crank, springs, everything. Nothing was sleeved for added support. Its a stock LS1 V8. The only thing changed on the motor was the fuel pump and fuel injectors. And obviously 2 turbos. Hmm thats strange.... a real stock motor pulling far more with less hp then your 11.23 supra. Like i said... dyno queens. You want more videos? They even made it into the 9's with an auto and a stall. But you are too stupid to know what thats about.

If your nissan motor can hold up so much hp on stock block, then why did you have to get forged internals just to get to 590hp? Doesn't sound like the stock block can support that, like you say. Sounds to me like you just put your foot in your mouth. Go to bed you stupid little kid, its past your bed time.

Oh and by the way.. your little statement about i don't have drag time slips because i don't do that.... yet you drag race corvettes and state that you win... but wait... you don't drag race.... right? Oh wait.. you just stuck your foot in your mouth again... It sounds to me like your car isn't as fast as your say. Thats why you don't want to show a time slip because it will show the truth, you are just trying to get out of it by saying you don't race it in a straight line. Lets see a time slip on a 1/4 mile track, not a 1/8 track, and also lets see a dyno sheet of your 590hp motor.

I laughed at this. also the C6 has shorter gearing mine has a taller gearing to provide more use of the turbos at speed..any car person would know this.. Like your 300Z has taller gear then a Vette does... The vette gearing allows them to go well over 200mph ( gearing wise ), i'm sure yours doesn't. I guess you are saying your car has a higher top speed then a vette does. Well, you are wrong. Any car person would know this.

I went ahead and researched for you the gear ratios in the ****** and rear end for the 300zx twin turbo ( which has the better gearing in it ) and a 2006 Corvette. You said that the Vette has shorter gearing. Its just the opposite, you have the shorter gearing.

300zx
1st 3.214
2nd 1.925
3rd 1.302
4th 1.000
5th 0.752

Diff 3.692

2006 Vette
1st 2.66
2nd 1.78
3rd 1.30
4th 1.00
5th 0.74
6th 0.50

3.42 diff

The vette clearly has longer gears then you. Even the rearend on the vette has a higher gear ratio then your 300zx. Hey look you are completely wrong and stupid!

[rbcito1977]

Yet again you post nothing with that states 1200hp with factory internals. Oem pistons do not count as factory internals. There is far more then just pistons in a block. Again, 800hp is not even close to 1200hp like you stated. You just keep making yourself sound even more stupid the more you talk.

Do you want a video of a stock LS1 V8 running low 10's in the 1/4? Here you go. http://www.slyls1.com/videos/ls1turbo.WMV

Again a real stock motor, not only are the pistons stock, but the cam, rods, crank, springs, everything. Nothing was sleeved for added support. Its a stock LS1 V8. The only thing changed on the motor was the fuel pump and fuel injectors. And obviously 2 turbos. Hmm thats strange.... a real stock motor pulling far more with less hp then your 11.23 supra. Like i said... dyno queens. You want more videos? They even made it into the 9's with an auto and a stall. But you are too stupid to know what thats about.

If your nissan motor can hold up so much hp on stock block, then why did you have to get forged internals just to get to 590hp? Doesn't sound like the stock block can support that, like you say. Sounds to me like you just put your foot in your mouth. Go to bed you stupid little kid, its past your bed time.

Oh and by the way.. your little statement about i don't have drag time slips because i don't do that.... yet you drag race corvettes and state that you win... but wait... you don't drag race.... right? Oh wait.. you just stuck your foot in your mouth again... It sounds to me like your car isn't as fast as your say. Thats why you don't want to show a time slip because it will show the truth, you are just trying to get out of it by saying you don't race it in a straight line. Lets see a time slip on a 1/4 mile track, not a 1/8 track, and also lets see a dyno sheet of your 590hp motor.

I laughed at this. Like your 300Z has taller gear then a Vette does... The vette gearing allows them to go well over 200mph ( gearing wise ), i'm sure yours doesn't. I guess you are saying your car has a higher top speed then a vette does. Well, you are wrong. Any car person would know this.

I went ahead and researched for you the gear ratios in the ****** and rear end for the 300zx twin turbo ( which has the better gearing in it ) and a 2006 Corvette. You said that the Vette has shorter gearing. Its just the opposite, you have the shorter gearing.

300zx
1st 3.214
2nd 1.925
3rd 1.302
4th 1.000
5th 0.752

Diff 3.692

2006 Vette
1st 2.66
2nd 1.78
3rd 1.30
4th 1.00
5th 0.74
6th 0.50

3.42 diff

The vette clearly has longer gears then you. Even the rearend on the vette has a higher gear ratio then your 300zx. Hey look you are completely wrong and stupid!


Everyone pay attention at his post..He obviously does not read..I have provided substantial info on the things in question.. he replies with some Drag Ls1 from Australia..whatever i have shown videos articles upon articles and he shows me that..oh well..when your Special your Special..but whatever i am done with the whole Supra thing..this guy deserves a Medal for Being Special...i said that a couple of times..and forgot to mention he doesnt read and comprehend..


The vette clearly has longer gears then you. Even the rearend on the vette has a higher gear ratio then your 300zx. Hey look you are completely wrong and stupid!

Ohhh Yeah..HMM...Look at you chart you really made yourself look like a fool.. there is one thing you missed..you have 1 more extra gear..and yes looking at the gearing from 2nd to 5th there almost the same..i have a shorter 1st gear to help with the lag that come from the Turbos..On the gearing it just seemed they always got the jump on me but then again i answered myself with my Turbo Lag and their Torque in the bottom rpm's..
So i stand corrected thank you, i learn a little more everday only makes me a better person..

No where in any of my post did i say that i have a higher top speed than a Corvette..Where did you get that from?..dont say things i never mentioned please your only making yourself look more retarded..

I have beatten C6's on the track (sorry road course) and i have the better power in all occasions..i had a highway run twice with 2 different corvettes one with i guess exhaust and the other one was stock(didnt sound as violent) and i beat them both..my car is well modified theres wasnt..case and point..thats it..I dont sit around waiting for races..LOL.. thats the young mentality that you still have..I got over that a long time ago..

As far as me building my engine..Why would i want to get another stock engine?..yes it is capable but why would i want that limitation?..thats like my house burning down and me rebuilding it exaclty how it was with the same exact furniture..why would anyone do that?...wouldnt you want something better and different with a piece of mind that you have a stronger engine..I Dont understand your Logic..but whatever..

This is the final post you cant beat the dead horse anymore..i am spent..at least you learned something..and dont forget to Reread those articles..

[Innerg]

Everyone pay attention at his post..He obviously does not read..I have provided substantial info on the things in question.. he replies with some Drag Ls1 from Australia..whatever i have shown videos articles upon articles and he shows me that..oh well..when your Special your Special..but whatever i am done with the whole Supra thing..this guy deserves a Medal for Being Special...i said that a couple of times..and forgot to mention he doesnt read and comprehend..




Ohhh Yeah..HMM...Look at you chart you really made yourself look like a fool.. there is one thing you missed..you have 1 more extra gear..and yes looking at the gearing from 2nd to 5th there almost the same..i have a shorter 1st gear to help with the lag that come from the Turbos..On the gearing it just seemed they always got the jump on me but then again i answered myself with my Turbo Lag and their Torque in the bottom rpm's..
So i stand corrected thank you, i learn a little more everday only makes me a better person..

No where in any of my post did i say that i have a higher top speed than a Corvette..Where did you get that from?..dont say things i never mentioned please your only making yourself look more retarded..

I have beatten C6's on the track (sorry road course) and i have the better power in all occasions..i had a highway run twice with 2 different corvettes one with i guess exhaust and the other one was stock(didnt sound as violent) and i beat them both..my car is well modified theres wasnt..case and point..thats it..I dont sit around waiting for races..LOL.. thats the young mentality that you still have..I got over that a long time ago..

As far as me building my engine..Why would i want to get another stock engine?..yes it is capable but why would i want that limitation?..thats like my house burning down and me rebuilding it exaclty how it was with the same exact furniture..why would anyone do that?...wouldnt you want something better and different with a piece of mind that you have a stronger engine..I Dont understand your Logic..but whatever..

This is the final post you cant beat the dead horse anymore..i am spent..at least you learned something..and dont forget to Reread those articles..


LOL! Wow, you amaze me. Do you even read what you are writing? Its truely amazing.

Lets start off with
I have provided substantial info on the things in question.. he replies with some Drag Ls1 from Australia..whatever i have shown videos articles upon articles and he shows me that..
What have you provided that states a stock block can with stand 1200hp reliably? Nothing. Again, it seems you dont know anything about motors. You keep saying " THEY HAVE STOCK PISTONS! " big deal... what about everything else in the block.. of wait.. its not stock. Was the block sleeved.. i bet it was.. again thats not stock. The only thing that is stock is the pistons. HA! I keep seeing only 800-850hp on everyone of those cars. Where are all of the 1200hp stock block cars you are talking about? Of wait.. they don't exist. You are wrong. Face it.

2nd
Ohhh Yeah..HMM...Look at you chart you really made yourself look like a fool.. there is one thing you missed..you have 1 more extra gear..and yes looking at the gearing from 2nd to 5th there almost the same..i have a shorter 1st gear to help with the lag that come from the Turbos..On the gearing it just seemed they always got the jump on me but then again i answered myself with my Turbo Lag and their Torque in the bottom rpm's..
So i stand corrected thank you, i learn a little more everday only makes me a better person.
You have a shorter first gear to help with the lag? EVERY GEAR YOU HAVE IS SHORTER! Are you stupid? Did you even look at the chart? It doesn't matter if the Vette has 6 gears, even the 1-5 gears are longer then every gear you have. There is 3 things going on here:
1. You don't know how to read the gear ratios and diff ratio.
2. You are completely stupid.
3. You are in denial.

Which means that again, you are completely wrong and stupid!

Next

No where in any of my post did i say that i have a higher top speed than a Corvette..Where did you get that from?..dont say things i never mentioned please your only making yourself look more retarded...
Again, this makes me think that you know very little about cars. If you say that you have longer gearing then a Vette, then you are basically saying that gearing alone, you would be able to go faster then a vette. Because you gears are longer. But we found out that you are completely wrong on this also. By the way you are talking, i have to think of extremes that you might be thinking. So this is why you have this. Its hard telling what you are thinking.

I have beatten C6's on the track (sorry road course) and i have the better power in all occasions..i had a highway run twice with 2 different corvettes one with i guess exhaust and the other one was stock(didnt sound as violent) and i beat them both..my car is well modified theres wasnt..case and point..thats it..I dont sit around waiting for races..LOL.. thats the young mentality that you still have..I got over that a long time ago..
You have better power in all occasions.. yet you just said that corvettes get a jump on you because they have a torquee V8... so which is it? Also about those videos you posted about that go racing those 2 vettes. I wouldn't call those a race, the vettes were just toying with him, and it still was no competion. This is probably the same case with you and the vettes you incountered. You were giving your car's all, and they were just toying with you. Thats not a race. And lets see some time slips on the 1/4. I'm confident your car isn't what you say it is. But a time slip will prove it.

As far as me building my engine..Why would i want to get another stock engine?..yes it is capable but why would i want that limitation?..thats like my house burning down and me rebuilding it exaclty how it was with the same exact furniture..why would anyone do that?...wouldnt you want something better and different with a piece of mind that you have a stronger engine..I Dont understand your Logic..but whatever..
Again, this proves my point. You keep stating that toyota and nissan motors can hold some pretty high hp numbers on stock blocks and stock internals. But in your case, with a stock block and internals.. it blew up. You had to sleeve and forge the internals, just to get to 590hp. 590hp! Thats it!? Thats sad. What about the 800-1200hp crap you are talking about. If those motors can do all that you say, then why did you motor blow up with only 590hp? Also, if you have had all of those things done to your motor, and you are spouting 590hp. Then there is some way you have a measurement of that 590hp. Its called a dyno. Lets see your car make those 590hp at the rear wheels like you are saying. Link the dyno sheet.

Since its your last post, good luck in life. Keep telling yourself that those motors are " all " stock internals. Idiot.

[Twerp128]

Dude, your just pissed 'cause his car is cooler than yours. Jealousy is a big, green monster.

[dngrusd]

Well first Ill say that Im not biased against any good performance vehicle, reguardless of what country made it...

The supra is a great ride, several freinds of mine have very nasty mk4s.
My personal must buy if lottery car is a r34gtr.
And I own 2 mustangs, so that lets you know what I think about cobras...

All that being said, where do you guys get these 12-1600hp numbers from?

I mean the guys I know who run (mid 10s and high 9s) in their supras *"only"* make a shade over 800 at the wheels.
The cobras I know of that run low 11s / high 10s on the IRS and 9s on a solid axle are only 600-700s at the wheels.
The "badest skyline in the country" with over $100,000 in it only makes 1130 at the wheels (as reported on this months magazine rack).
The national dyno shootouts are won at supra meets by numbers in the 1000-1100 range.
Then unlimited shootouts are usually tt vipers in the 14-1500s. (and the above are built motors, NOT stock)

So Im honestly curious, other than dedicated drag cars that dont drive on the street (of which blown pushrod v8s far surpass all others:NHRA), where are all these 12-14-1600 whp supras, and skylines, and vettes, and cobras, and etc... Im just wondering? No, honestly, Im not bustin on you, I want to know... cuz if there is other info out there that Im not aware of, I would like to know about it. Seriously...

Dave-

[dngrusd]

Oh, I found some of those times from Nuruburg...


Radical RS8 6:55
Edo 996 GT2 7:15
Porsche Carrera GT 7:28
Pagani Zonda F 7:32
Koenigsegg CCR 7:34
Porsche 997 GT3 7:39
Bugati Veyron 7:40
Porsche 997 turbo 7:40
Mercedes SLR Mcl. 7:40
Ford GT 7:42
Mosler MT900 7:42
Corvette C6 Z06 7:42
Porsche 996 GT3 7:43
Lambo Murcilago 7:43
Pagani Zonda C12 7:44
Ferrari F430 7:55
Porsche 996 turbo 7:56
Ferrari 360 chal. strat. 7:56
Lambo Galardo 7:56
Nissan Skyline r33gtr 7:59
Austin Mart. V8 Vant. 8:03
Ferrari 575 Maranello 8:05
RUF CTR 8:05
Mercedes SL55 AMG 8:06
Honda NSX 8:09
Ferrari 360 Modena 8:09
Audi RS4 8:09
Lambo Diablo SV 8:09
Lotus Esprit 350 8:13
Dodge Viper srt10 8:13
BMW M5 8:13
Mercedes SL65AMG 8:14



Anyhow its just a partial list, different drivers, different times of year, the cars go clear down to the 6 min range but these are some of the cars from the game, or ones that we talk about all the time anyhow...

Kinda interesting though, that "bad suspension" "pushrod technology" "old v8" powered chebby' is in some pretty good company....
for about 1/2 the price. (or less)


I also like that the Skyline which the game makers gave NO RESPECT can walk a 360 modena, or SL55 AMG, or V8 Vantage, or etc.....
Dave

[rbcito1977]

Well first Ill say that Im not biased against any good performance vehicle, reguardless of what country made it...

The supra is a great ride, several freinds of mine have very nasty mk4s.
My personal must buy if lottery car is a r34gtr.
And I own 2 mustangs, so that lets you know what I think about cobras...

All that being said, where do you guys get these 12-1600hp numbers from?

I mean the guys I know who run (mid 10s and high 9s) in their supras *"only"* make a shade over 800 at the wheels.
The cobras I know of that run low 11s / high 10s on the IRS and 9s on a solid axle are only 600-700s at the wheels.
The "badest skyline in the country" with over $100,000 in it only makes 1130 at the wheels (as reported on this months magazine rack).
The national dyno shootouts are won at supra meets by numbers in the 1000-1100 range.
Then unlimited shootouts are usually tt vipers in the 14-1500s. (and the above are built motors, NOT stock)

So Im honestly curious, other than dedicated drag cars that dont drive on the street (of which blown pushrod v8s far surpass all others:NHRA), where are all these 12-14-1600 whp supras, and skylines, and vettes, and cobras, and etc... Im just wondering? No, honestly, Im not bustin on you, I want to know... cuz if there is other info out there that Im not aware of, I would like to know about it. Seriously...

Dave-


Well Supras are not made for drag..not at all..and Innerg is right they are dyno queens never argued on that..basically anyone who is pushing in any street car over 1000+ is because they just wanna have the bragging rights..or they run on the highway..there are some dedicated track supras with auto trans(TH400)..but i am not sire i think they have got into the 7's..
As far as where i got the numbers from, well the research i have done if you check the posts i have some links in there..also the fact that i was looking for something that was easy to work on and great looking..but the fact that they were so expensive made me backed out in the end..

[rbcito1977]

LOL! Wow, you amaze me. Do you even read what you are writing? Its truely amazing.

Lets start off with

What have you provided that states a stock block can with stand 1200hp reliably? Nothing. Again, it seems you dont know anything about motors. You keep saying " THEY HAVE STOCK PISTONS! " big deal... what about everything else in the block.. of wait.. its not stock. Was the block sleeved.. i bet it was.. again thats not stock. The only thing that is stock is the pistons. HA! I keep seeing only 800-850hp on everyone of those cars. Where are all of the 1200hp stock block cars you are talking about? Of wait.. they don't exist. You are wrong. Face it.

2nd

You have a shorter first gear to help with the lag? EVERY GEAR YOU HAVE IS SHORTER! Are you stupid? Did you even look at the chart? It doesn't matter if the Vette has 6 gears, even the 1-5 gears are longer then every gear you have. There is 3 things going on here:
1. You don't know how to read the gear ratios and diff ratio.
2. You are completely stupid.
3. You are in denial.

Which means that again, you are completely wrong and stupid!

Next


Again, this makes me think that you know very little about cars. If you say that you have longer gearing then a Vette, then you are basically saying that gearing alone, you would be able to go faster then a vette. Because you gears are longer. But we found out that you are completely wrong on this also. By the way you are talking, i have to think of extremes that you might be thinking. So this is why you have this. Its hard telling what you are thinking.


You have better power in all occasions.. yet you just said that corvettes get a jump on you because they have a torquee V8... so which is it? Also about those videos you posted about that go racing those 2 vettes. I wouldn't call those a race, the vettes were just toying with him, and it still was no competion. This is probably the same case with you and the vettes you incountered. You were giving your car's all, and they were just toying with you. Thats not a race. And lets see some time slips on the 1/4. I'm confident your car isn't what you say it is. But a time slip will prove it.


Again, this proves my point. You keep stating that toyota and nissan motors can hold some pretty high hp numbers on stock blocks and stock internals. But in your case, with a stock block and internals.. it blew up. You had to sleeve and forge the internals, just to get to 590hp. 590hp! Thats it!? Thats sad. What about the 800-1200hp crap you are talking about. If those motors can do all that you say, then why did you motor blow up with only 590hp? Also, if you have had all of those things done to your motor, and you are spouting 590hp. Then there is some way you have a measurement of that 590hp. Its called a dyno. Lets see your car make those 590hp at the rear wheels like you are saying. Link the dyno sheet.

Since its your last post, good luck in life. Keep telling yourself that those motors are " all " stock internals. Idiot.

You are the biggest idioton this forum go back to your cave..did you READ>>>>READ..tell your MOMMA to SHOW you HOW..wow no matter how many times that i said a had a fuel problem you still insist on putting words in..I never stated my motor exceeded 1200hp..Everyone has read my posts yours are the ones in question..

ARRGGHHH!! go play with your Chrylser Lebaron LE...

[Innerg]

You are the biggest idioton this forum go back to your cave..did you READ>>>>READ..tell your MOMMA to SHOW you HOW..wow no matter how many times that i said a had a fuel problem you still insist on putting words in..I never stated my motor exceeded 1200hp..Everyone has read my posts yours are the ones in question..

ARRGGHHH!! go play with your Chrylser Lebaron LE...

Since when did i say your motor exceeded 1200hp? You need to take your own advice and try reading... I said 590hp for your motor, not 1200hp. You keep saying that a supra motor can run 1200hp on a stock block and stock internals. Which it cant.

[moparornocar72]

hey sorry but do u now if there is any car packs to download besides the r34 and saloon?
Thanks

[LV2XLR8]

My favorite car and it's the car that I drove the most.