Heel Toe Clutch

[wrm41887]

is anyone else disappointed that the steering wheel doesnt have a clutch or realistic shifter i dont know aboutyou guys but im use to Heel-Toe Clutch when im racing (im not a streetracer) or even driving.

[iamwutiam]

all we can do is hope that they do make one some day hopefully soon. i'm use to heel toe clutch as well during racing and i'll mess around on the street every once in a while just to make people look at me like "howd he do that"(mainly the civic ricer guys)

[KoenigViper]

Just buy the PC version and the G25 wheel. Then you can act like you're heel toe shifting.

[bimmerlovere39]

It won't matter if he has the PC version and the G25 (which would cost a grand total of $340 plus tax, assuming your current comp can run it!), If test drive doesn't support a clutch feature (which I don't think it will) or an H-Gate shifter (which I don't think it will), it doesn't matter what you do, you can't heel-toe or double clutch.

I love the G25 in theory, but there are two things I dislike:
1) The price tag (you could get a 360 Core, a Wii, or a PS2 plus the GT4 wheel for what it costs.
2) The fact that not many games support the H-Gate shifter or the clutch.

I for one, while I would love to have a G25 that would be fully functional for TDU and the 360, but, sadly, many people prob couldn't use it... I read in Roundel that only 15% of driver CAN drive a stick. Even less actually do, or so I would think.

[SVT_MAN]

every once in a while just to make people look at me like "howd he do that"(mainly the civic ricer guys)

That's somewhat funny because most of the ricer guys have seen Fast and the Furious 100,000 times so they've heard Vin Diesel say that so and so isn't double clutching so he isn't "good." It's hilarious -- anybody who double clutches is wasting their time. The gearboxes have synchros for a reason these days :rolleyes: It's funny how little a lot of the ricers actually know.

[KoenigViper]

It won't matter if he has the PC version and the G25 (which would cost a grand total of $340 plus tax, assuming your current comp can run it!), If test drive doesn't support a clutch feature (which I don't think it will) or an H-Gate shifter (which I don't think it will), it doesn't matter what you do, you can't heel-toe or double clutch.

I love the G25 in theory, but there are two things I dislike:
1) The price tag (you could get a 360 Core, a Wii, or a PS2 plus the GT4 wheel for what it costs.
2) The fact that not many games support the H-Gate shifter or the clutch.

I for one, while I would love to have a G25 that would be fully functional for TDU and the 360, but, sadly, many people prob couldn't use it... I read in Roundel that only 15% of driver CAN drive a stick. Even less actually do, or so I would think.

The G25 is fully supported by TDU. You don't need a comp of high power to run it, so I don't know why you think that. It's not a game or program.

The G25 is built for simulation games, ala LFS, Driver's Republic, and GTR(2). Given the people who play these games probably have $300 to spare, and are serious about realism, they'll play it.

It's not an H-Gate either. You don't have to drive with a stick. You can set the game to automatic or use the padels.

Have you done any research on this wheel?:weird:

[bimmerlovere39]

Yes, I have. What I meant about the comp was that if he was planning to get TDU for the 360, and he got it for PC instead because of the G25, his PC might not be able to handle it (the GAME).

Yes, but is TDU a sim? No.
"a six-speed gated shifter." http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/products/details/US/EN,CRID=2217,CONTENTID=11867 I took that as an H-Gate 6-Speed. And duh you can drive an auto or drive with the paddles. If you couldn't 360 players that don't have a wheel would be screwed.

Yes, I have.

[KoenigViper]

No, it's not, but that's the G25's PURPOSE. The DFP was never endorsed as a PC wheel, and now look at it.

Bottom line, the G25 will be fully compatible with the PC Version.

[memphisbelle]

Does anyone know if any company makes a steering wheel with a clutch and h gate shifter and I'm dissapointed too!!!!!!!!!

[John DiFool]

http://forum.rscnet.org/forumdisplay.php?f=814

Knock yourself out.

[memphisbelle]

Okay I ment is there any company that makes a wheel with three pedal and an h gate for the x-box 360

[BuzZz Killer]

As of right now there are only 2 wheels available for the 360. The Mad Catz MR2, and the Logitek Driveforce (I think that is the name). Microsoft is going to be releasing one sometime next year, but the short answer is no. There are no wheels with clutches or shifters available for 360.

[osj911]

cant u run the g25 on the 360 or no? i hope forza 2 has it

[Jazzy]

okay i got two questions that are stupid, especially since i'm a car fanatic..

First of all, what is a sequential gearbox?

And second, how do you shift with the heel-toe method??

:)

[Technosavant]

Sequential Gearbox: Instead of an "H" gate, a sequential gearbox is where you move the lever one direction to upshift, another to downshift. Motorcycles use this, as well as "manumatic" (automatics with a self-shift feature) transmissions and many purpose-built race cars.

Heel and Toe: Placing the right foot on the brake and accelerator pedals at the same time, so you can match revs while completing a shift. The ability to do this depends greatly on pedal layout. The left foot is busy operating the clutch, so the right foot has to do the others; usually the ball of the foot is on the brake pedal and the heel is on the accelerator.

Heel and toeing is a dying art, mainly because of the crappy pedal placement in many modern cars, as well as the improvements in transmission technology that make it obsolete. There's no point in heel and toeing a clutchless manual transmission with shifter paddles. If you really want to do some of this, hunt up an MG roadster like a MGB or a Midget. Cheap and fun.

[quaddity]

Sequential Gearbox: Instead of an "H" gate, a sequential gearbox is where you move the lever one direction to upshift, another to downshift. Motorcycles use this, as well as "manumatic" (automatics with a self-shift feature) transmissions and many purpose-built race cars.


My wife's Hyundai Tuscon SUV has this. I thought it was pretty funny to put it in "sport" mode and then you shift it up and down. It will downshift to 1 automatically if you come to a stop but won't upshift for you if you are high in the RPMs.

[Technosavant]

My wife's Acura TL has a manumatic too. Not really worth the trouble to fiddle with. Kind of useful to force kickdowns before passing, but that's it.

[hdlss ghstrdr]

Heel toe clutch? You don't heel-toe clutch...you heel-toe throttle and brake while you clutch with your left foot.

[Twerp128]

Never heard anyone call it heal toe cluth method, sounds like it implies the left foot operates the clutch and brake that way. An illustaration:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxkQmcDsulU

And I can't thin of anything you double clutch on except a dump truck, but, I think they try not to use the clutch at all.

[jbix]

I have a buddy who drives semi's for a living, he says in his experience it's pretty much a necessity to double-clutch on those. I've never double-clutched while driving a regular vehicle, it's a waste of time and effort, let alone unneccesary wear to the throwout bearing and pedal return spring. Plus the risk of missing your timing and grinding horribly. You gotta love what the fast and the furious did to the ricer generation. :haha:

I've never called it heel-toe clutching, I believe it's heel-toe downshifting, by which you use the right foot to brake AND blip the throttle to match the engine revs for a smoother downshift while braking. Takes some practice to master, but mostly you need to know your car, and like technosavant said, it relies heavily on pedal placement. Road and Track and Car and Driver discuss this method a lot about any manual trans performance car they drive.

[htweelz]

Never heard anyone call it heal toe cluth method, sounds like it implies the left foot operates the clutch and brake that way. An illustaration:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxkQmcDsulU

And I can't thin of anything you double clutch on except a dump truck, but, I think they try not to use the clutch at all.

I saw no heel toe action in that video. I saw left foot braking but that was it.

I do agree the only thing you double clutch is an old truck or car that has no syncros in the ******. There is no need to double clutch a modern car but you can still do it. F&F cracked me up on how much BS came out of that movie. Every kid with a fart can and neon on his Honda thought he had a race car.:lol-sign:

[Jazzy]

Thanks for the replies :)

Will try that when I get my licens (and my car)..

[Twerp128]

I saw no heel toe action in that video. I saw left foot braking but that was it.

I do agree the only thing you double clutch is an old truck or car that has no syncros in the ******. There is no need to double clutch a modern car but you can still do it. F&F cracked me up on how much BS came out of that movie. Every kid with a fart can and neon on his Honda thought he had a race car.:lol-sign:

About half way through the video, it looks like hes on the brake and throttle as he downshifts, thought I could hear the engine rev up as he downshifted. But, its hard to tell?

[Vasilia]

I learned to drive on a Lotus Elan back in the day: 1600 cc w/ dual overhead cam, dual Weber carbs, mechanical clutch w/ 1/2" play. You could feel your friction points. The gearbox was an unforgiving *******. Never had to double clutch except in the '65 Mustang and only then because of the lack of synchro in the stock transmission.

The clutch pedals today are way too high and have virtually no "feel" to them. I still drive a manual. Driving a stick is a lost art.

[jbix]

I still drive a manual. Driving a stick is a lost art.

Yeah, driving stick is a dying art for us lazy Americans. I believe that over 90% of cars purchased in the US are autos. In England I think like 70% or more cars there are manual trans.

[htweelz]

Yeah, driving stick is a dying art for us lazy Americans. I believe that over 90% of cars purchased in the US are autos. In England I think like 70% or more cars there are manual trans.

I love driving a manual unfortunately the only manual I have is my '01 Mustang GT convertible that I take out just for fun. All of my cars were manual until I bought my F-150 back in '97. My father made sure that both my sister and I learned to drive a manual and I will with my kids as well.

I wouldn't say we are lazy just busy. You know you have to eat, shave, drink, read, put on makeup and talk on the phone while you "drive". I get so pissed coming to work every morning watching the people. No wonder there are so many accidents. People do everything BUT drive when they are in their cars. I love getting right next to someone reading a book or newspaper and just honking the horn and watch them through it in the air as they try to figure out what is going on.

[Twerp128]

Wonder why old european cars dont have cupholders? Because europeans wouldn't dream of eating, drinking, reading when they drive, I have seen them on cellphones. It was us fat americans. Thats why they started puting cupholders in.

[jbix]

http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=540419

This video, on one of the active threads, shows a lot of good heel-toe downshifting. Watch the foot cam as they are braking for the corners.

[Vasilia]

That's the way I was taught. My first BF used to race. It was his Lotus. Is there another way people clutch (other than slow as molasses in the shifting)? I've only owned one "auto" which was when i was married and that was because my ex-husband wanted one, but I kept my Audi. ;)

[Technosavant]

My switch from manual to automatic transmissions had more than just plain laziness involved:

1) I got married. My wife doesn't drive manual transmissions, and the ability to swap cars can be nice.
2) I got lazy. If that's what you call it, it's lazy. I spend a fair amount of time anymore just sitting in traffic, and it's no fun operating a stick in 10 miles of stop and go traffic.
3) Cost. Although autos cost more to buy, nowadays they are pretty much "life of the car" components. With manuals, you have to replace clutches and throwout bearings eventually. The fuel economy difference is nonexistent or negligible (1mpg can be recovered by how you drive).

I still miss my 02 Sentra SE-R, but I manage without crying myself to sleep at night.

Manual transmissions are things of beauty, and I will always enjoy driving a good one. At the same time, for 95% of the driving most people do, an automatic is not only good enough, but preferable. The curvy roads of yore that I might have blasted down have now been straightened out and widened, complete with new stoplights. Safer but more boring.

[Vasilia]

it's no fun operating a stick in 10 miles of stop and go traffic.

word.

What I find fun is going up to Mt. Rainier in the winter. Hardly anyone is on the roads. Paradise doesn't require chains usually. The scenery is gorgeous. And if you run into some snow, there is nothing better than a manual, especially if you have front wheel drive.

For "F" class, I'd really like to see them put the Mazda 3 in the game. It's built on a Volvo chassis w/ 150 hp on the 5 speed. I don't know what it'll top out at. I've had mine up to 110 and it felt like it was loafing. "E" class, Mazda 6, and Mx 5. And "D" class the Mazda Rx 8. Just to give a bit more selection.

[jbix]

The MAZDASPEED 6 will actually out-accelerate an RX 8. Plus it would add to the awd family. RX8 will prolly take it in the long run, but it won't catch up until after the century mark, but the speed 6 is still pullin strong. But those are all good cars to add.

[calumniate]

because of my crappy wheel in tdu i use my right foot for the gas and my left foot for the brake.. i've gotten used to it! my clutch is a button on the wheel. it seems push-button clutches worke well in tdu (my shifts are instantaneous). The only thing - starting is sometimes a problem.. i just have to really drop the clutch and it goes.

[stonerkid]

me and my friends try to heel-toe-downshift it's so damn hard i just don't have the coordination

[SVT_MAN]

me and my friends try to heel-toe-downshift it's so damn hard i just don't have the coordination

It's basically worthless unless you are racing anyway. I've seen some ricers look like real idiots if when they mess it up while driving on the road.

On modern cars you don't even need to downshift in sequence. I usually do just to remember what gear I'm in, but it's not completely necessary. Modern cars have good enough brakes that you can avoid letting the clutch out to allow for engine braking. When I come to a stop in our Mustang, I just apply the brakes and when my gear runs out, I push in the clutch and shift to the appropriate gear for my speed.

thought I could hear the engine rev up as he downshifted. But, its hard to tell?


Isn't the engine revving higher the point of downshifting? Oh wait, nevermind. You're saying AS he downshifted. Got it. But, I still didn't see that in the video. I didn't see any heel-toe downshifts, just a lot of left foot braking. The funny thing is, on games I brake with my left. But, in real life, I brake with my right.

[Outlaw40]

I think having a clutch of the 360 Racing wheel would have been somthing cool to consider.

[Outlaw40]

I like the SPEED 6, my friend's got one with a 6-speed and once you find some road where you can really unwind the turbo that car will haul

[Jake33]

Never heard anyone call it heal toe cluth method, sounds like it implies the left foot operates the clutch and brake that way. An illustaration:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxkQmcDsulU

And I can't thin of anything you double clutch on except a dump truck, but, I think they try not to use the clutch at all.

Better quality, Click here.
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ts29KKhKXds)