Rock Lee vs Neji

[Omid]

I know this is an very close battle but who do you think would win the battle?

I am going to defend Lee on this one, anyone who thinks Neji can beat Lee; bring it on. ;)

[St0rM04]

If it was just a normal fight (without Lee opening the gates) then Neji would win, If Lee opened his gates then Neji would be splat.

[Omid]

If it was just a normal fight (without Lee opening the gates) then Neji would win, If Lee opened his gates then Neji would be splat.
Wrong, Drunken Lee Style > Neji.
That's the main reason I think Drunken Lee would beat Neji. Logically, it seems like it would take a very precise hit to damage the tenketsu, since the tenketsu are so small. When someone's movements are as unpredictable as Drunken Lee's, landing such a precise hit becomes near-impossible, imo--even Kimi was having a lot of trouble.

Come again?

[St0rM04]

Wrong, Drunken Lee Style > Neji.
That's the main reason I think Drunken Lee would beat Neji. Logically, it seems like it would take a very precise hit to damage the tenketsu, since the tenketsu are so small. When someone's movements are as unpredictable as Drunken Lee's, landing such a precise hit becomes near-impossible, imo--even Kimi was having a lot of trouble.

Come again?

Actually i was right because i said and i quote "If it was a normal fight", which means if he was sober then Neji would win.Yes you are correct in the fact that drunken Lee would beat Neji.

[Omid]

Actually i was right because i said and i quote "If it was a normal fight", which means if he was sober then Neji would win.Yes you are correct in the fact that drunken Lee would beat Neji.
So hold on a second, you tell me that Neji can go on full power while Rock Lee goes on what, 30/40% of his strenght? that's kinda unfair.
I am suprised the Neji fans haven't replied yet. :haha:

[St0rM04]

So hold on a second, you tell me that Neji can go on full power while Rock Lee goes on what, 30/40% of his strenght? that's kinda unfair.
I am suprised the Neji fans haven't replied yet. :haha:


I don't think there are many Neji fans here.

[Omid]

I don't think there are many Neji fans here.
I thought there were, many people automatically assume Neji's Kaiten would own Rock Lee. :haha:

[St0rM04]

I thought there were, many people automatically assume Neji's Kaiten would own Rock Lee. :haha:


Could happen if Lee gets caught of guard...

[Omid]

Could happen if Lee gets caught of guard...
Neji may have kaiten, but lee might be able to out speed that. Image lee with some gates opened AND drunk. Lee's speed > Neji's Kaiten,

[SS4Zach]

Neji would when because he will poke his chakra points.:p

[MysticGospel]

Yea, but only problem would be that lee dosen't use nin or genjustu, but he can still do serious damage if hehits say his heart, it really is a battle that can go either way. Also, Neji has the rotation as his def too, but they are pretty much even. However, we haven't seen a full fight of lee vs naruto after the Chunin exam, so we can't really make a power chain yet. So I stand undecided for now.

[Omid]

Neji would when because he will poke his chakra points.:p
Lee being a natural user of the drunken fist, holds all the advantages of what drunken fist entails. Amazing strength, unpredictability, plus all the advantages held by mastering a style. I think Lee would take neji out even with kaiten. I could see it now...

*lee runs* *neji starts kaiten* *lee falls before reaching neji* *kaiten stops* *lee attacks*

Yea, but only problem would be that lee dosen't use nin or genjustu, but he can still do serious damage if hehits say his heart, it really is a battle that can go either way. Also, Neji has the rotation as his def too, but they are pretty much even. However, we haven't seen a full fight of lee vs naruto after the Chunin exam, so we can't really make a power chain yet. So I stand undecided for now.
Ok, picture in your mind, picture lee going to use the lotus on neji. When he does that disappearing thing, he appears in like 0.50 seconds again and hits him in the stomach right? Can neji do a complete kaiten in 0.50 seconds? and after that its lee's lotus but neji should have gotten so damaged that he cant use kaiten in the air anymore.
Lee drunk would also be able to dodge Gentle Fist and the 64/128 Strikes. At one point when he was fighting Kimi while drunk, Kimi was like "Why can't I land any hits?" And Kimi is probably at least jounin level and has an advanced bloodline. If Lee can dodge blows from one of Oro's best fighters, he can probably dodge blows from a genin (a genius genin, but still a genin).;)

[SS4Zach]

Druken Lee....he's all right.I think he's better when he is normal with his omate renge and ura renge.

[Omid]

Druken Lee....he's all right.I think he's better when he is normal with his omate renge and ura renge.
He is incredible powerfull, fast and unpredictable (plays a very good part) when he is Suikode user. :up:

[SS4Zach]

I want to see Matio Gai drink it.:haha:

[Omid]

I want to see Matio Gai drink it.:haha:
Lol, I think Drunken Lee > Drunken Gai. :haha:

[Aaroniero]

Lol, I think Drunken Lee > Drunken Gai. :haha:

DRunken gai>drunken lee

[SS4Zach]

Too bad Jiraiya is not a drunken master.:p

I guess Rock Lee's theme song is FLOW!(a theme song of Naruto)because it says "you fight like a drunken fighter"!:haha:

[Omid]

Too bad Jiraiya is not a drunken master.:p

I guess Rock Lee's theme song is FLOW!(a theme song of Naruto)because it says "you fight like a drunken fighter"!:haha:
Lol! that would be interesting, though, I think he usually is drunk with the girls and stuff. :haha:

It is, It is!:haha:

@superbuu, we never seen Gai drunk before.

[chronicdevil]

You overestimate Drunken Lee, he's a comical character, he's not to be taken seriously, it's pointless to use him in a discussion. It's obvious Kimimaro wasn't taking him seriously, that whole fight was a joke, and a pretty funny one, but that's all it was. Drunken Lee does seem to have more speed, but note that he's drunk, he doesn't actually know what he's doing. Because he's unpredictable, it's impossible to say who would win, and there's no point trying.

Anyway:

Neji > Lee without weights
Lee with 5 gates open > Neji

There's no point arguing this, it's more or less supported by the story. We can discuss 'what if's' and stuff, but it would be pretty pointless.

[SS4Zach]

I know that Neji would win if they ever had a battle.

[Omid]

You overestimate Drunken Lee, he's a comical character, he's not to be taken seriously, it's pointless to use him in a discussion. It's obvious Kimimaro wasn't taking him seriously, that whole fight was a joke, and a pretty funny one, but that's all it was. Drunken Lee does seem to have more speed, but note that he's drunk, he doesn't actually know what he's doing. Because he's unpredictable, it's impossible to say who would win, and there's no point trying.

Anyway:

Neji > Lee without weights
Lee with 5 gates open > Neji

There's no point arguing this, it's more or less supported by the story. We can discuss 'what if's' and stuff, but it would be pretty pointless.
I disagree, you can use Drunken Lee in a discussion because it's canon and Kimmi took the fight serious, though it was Lee's unpredictable movements which made Kimmi guess when to strike. Lee > Neji because of his Speed, power and unpredicting movements.

Anyway:

Neji is not that fast, I don't think Neji is as fast (or closely) as Lee , the only reason why Neji still wupps Lee's ass , is because of his ultimate deffense, and even Naruto could brake through that deffence in the chuunin exams (And even then , Naruto wasn't as fast as lee !!!!)
I wonder what you think about Kidomaru, do you think Lee could beat him?

[Aaroniero]

Neji is not that fast,

He has a 3 in speed , in the databook

[chronicdevil]

I disagree, you can use Drunken Lee in a discussion because it's canon and Kimmi took the fight serious, though it was Lee's unpredictable movements which made Kimmi guess when to strike. Lee > Neji because of his Speed, power and unpredicting movements.
Kimimaro didn't take it seriously, he was serious against Gaara. Did you see how easily Kimimaro snapped Lee out of his drunken state straight after activating a bit of the curse seal. Curse seal 2 Kimimaro would have slaughtered Drunken Lee. Kimimaro with a bit of curse seal power was also able to stop Lee's Omote renge, he instantly caught Lee's foot, even though he was moving at an incredible speed, how easily would he catch Drunken Lee's attacks. After all Lee using Omote renge > Drunken Lee in terms of speed.
Neji is not that fast, I don't think Neji is as fast (or closely) as Lee , the only reason why Neji still wupps Lee's ass , is because of his ultimate deffense, and even Naruto could brake through that deffence in the chuunin exams (And even then , Naruto wasn't as fast as lee !!!!)
I wonder what you think about Kidomaru, do you think Lee could beat him?
Neji is very fast, his hand movement is precise AND extremely fast.

Also Naruto never broke through Neji's Kaiten, it was more or less a draw, and this is a Kyuubi powered Naruto and a rushed Kaiten we're talking about.

I reckon Lee without weights could beat Kidoumaru.

[Dbfan]

Lee<Neji
Lee (aloud to use gates) > Neji

Drunken Lee...I doubt he could escape Neji's attacks.

[Aaroniero]

Lol! that would be interesting, though, I think he usually is drunk with the girls and stuff. :haha:

It is, It is!:haha:

@superbuu, we never seen Gai drunk before.


i know :bored:

[Omid]

Kimimaro didn't take it seriously, he was serious against Gaara.
Kimmi was serious, he could not win against Drunken Lee. The normal Lee was much easier to dealt with than Drunken Lee. Also remember that Lee only used his first gate against Kimmi, not even close to what he shown to Gaara during the Chunnin pre matches.

Did you see how easily Kimimaro snapped Lee out of his drunken state straight after activating a bit of the curse seal.
I did but you must obviously not realise that Drunken Lee= Kimmi. He said at the beginning that Lee's attacks were too ''direct'' before Lee became drunk because of that Saké and became ''unpredictable'' with his movements. Why did Kimmi tried to snap Lee out of his Drunken stadium? why? because, he couldn't beat Lee when he was drunk.
Drunken Lee will win for sure unpredictable movements increased strength and speed, plus the ability to open gates, remember when we saw drunk lee he had just gotten out of surgery, I even beleive sober lee could beat neji and plus drunken lee has a personality where as nejis a hard ass.

Curse seal 2 Kimimaro would have slaughtered Drunken Lee. Kimimaro with a bit of curse seal power was also able to stop Lee's Omote renge, he instantly caught Lee's foot, even though he was moving at an incredible speed, how easily would he catch Drunken Lee's attacks. After all Lee using Omote renge > Drunken Lee in terms of speed.
Okay if you want to play it that way then rewatch the episode when Gaara came in and had a convo with Lee before his fight with Kimmi:
''Rock Lee: This person is incredible powerfull''
''Gaara: This time, you didn't even put your spirit in the attacks''
I am sure Gaara saw that that wasn't Lee's full power, remember that Lee was already sober when Gaara joined the fight.
It took Gai AND neji to restrain Lee, neji most likely would'nt be able to touch lee in his drunk state, let alone him using the gates would up the chances.

Neji is very fast, his hand movement is precise AND extremely fast.
Haven't you read my previous posts? I said that Drunken Lee is too unpredictable with his movements, even Neji has to gamble.

Also Naruto never broke through Neji's Kaiten, it was more or less a draw, and this is a Kyuubi powered Naruto and a rushed Kaiten we're talking about.
You'd still have to take into account that Lee using the 5th gate could surpass kyubi Naruto chackra wise, I mean, we all saw what he did to gaara if it was'nt for all that sand.

I reckon Lee without weights could beat Kidoumaru.
For once I agree.


Drunken Lee...I doubt he could escape Neji's attacks.
Sorry to intrude but Drunken Lee's movements are too unpredictable for Neji's attacks.

[chronicdevil]

Kimmi was serious, he could not win against Drunken Lee.
You're delusional. Kimimaro can't be beaten by Drunken Lee's taijutsu, it's so unbelievably obvious. The ONLY way Lee could even hope to beat Kimimaro is if he opened the gates, even then there's a chance Kimimaro could win. Kimimaro is the worst match up for a taijutsu user, although it wasn't stated, Kimimaro has an absolute defense stronger than Gaara's armour of sand.
Also remember that Lee only used his first gate against Kimmi
Drunken Lee can't use the gates. Don't even bother saying he might be able to, because it's pointless, there's nothing to prove otherwise.
I did but you must obviously not realise that Drunken Lee= Kimmi.
No. Do you also believe that Drunken Lee is stronger than all of Gaara's attacks? Because he's not.

CS2 Kimimaro > Gaara > Lee with 5 gates open >>>>>>>>>>>>> Drunken Lee

This is a fact, seeing as it's supported by the manga and anime, don't bother arguing it.
Why did Kimmi tried to snap Lee out of his Drunken stadium?
He didn't try, Lee just happened to get snapped out after Drunken Lee was injured with such ease.
Drunken Lee will win for sure unpredictable movements increased strength and speed, plus the ability to open gates
The 8 gates require an immense amount of talent, skill and concentration, what makes you think a drunk person can use them?

And this is why you shouldn't use Drunken Lee in a debate, all you keep saying is he's unpredictable. You can't use unpredictability in a discussion, it could mean anything, good or bad, which is why it's unpredictable. Don't mention that again, it's pointless. If you do i'll probably just ignore it.
plus drunken lee has a personality where as nejis a hard ass.
That has nothing to do with anything :weird:
''Gaara: This time, you didn't even put your spirit in the attacks''
Actually he said something more along the lines of "last time your moves had more edge."
remember when we saw drunk lee he had just gotten out of surgery
Lee has only ever been at full health twice in a fight, and that was against Sasuke and the Sound nins. Lee at full health isn't significantly stronger than he is at lower health.
It took Gai AND neji to restrain Lee
Gai and Neji weren't trying to injure him, hence why both of them needed to help. Gai even said that he could have done it himself.
neji most likely would'nt be able to touch lee in his drunk state
Wishful thinking, and it's getting annoying.
You'd still have to take into account that Lee using the 5th gate could surpass kyubi Naruto chackra wise, I mean, we all saw what he did to gaara if it was'nt for all that sand.
:weird:
Neji > Lee without weights
Lee with 5 gates open > Neji
Sorry to intrude but Drunken Lee's movements are too unpredictable for Neji's attacks.
:rolleyes:

[Omid]

You're delusional. Kimimaro can't be beaten by Drunken Lee's taijutsu, it's so unbelievably obvious. The ONLY way Lee could even hope to beat Kimimaro is if he opened the gates, even then there's a chance Kimimaro could win.
Why is it so obvious? why did Kimmi want to snap Lee out of his drunken state? :confused:

Kimimaro is the worst match up for a taijutsu user, although it wasn't stated, Kimimaro has an absolute defense stronger than Gaara's armour of sand.
Funny that he fell so easily on the ground once Lee kicked him by suprise. :haha:

Drunken Lee can't use the gates. Don't even bother saying he might be able to, because it's pointless, there's nothing to prove otherwise.
It might be possible, you never know how a suikode user acts.
Regardless of if neji is invincible or not, Kaiten takes up quite a lot of chakra, like all the ultimate defences do. If Lee is, and to quote from the anime, too "unpredictable" for a perfectly "unwasteful" taijutsu master, then i fail to see how neji has the time to activate kaiten. Despite having 2 stages, the first does little damage, giving lee the time to move back before neji whirls, since that would require neji to move his feet, which obviously aren't on par with Lee's. There's a reason neji didn't run around during the Kido fight: he's just not THAT fast. Unless he's using divination, a skill which Lee can easily move away from (seeing as Lee commented that he would NEVER attack from the front, unless he could see and counter an attack). Divination also starts with slow strikes, and builds up the full speed when using the 2,4,8 method, giving rock enough time to put a spinning dropkick in neji's head.

Next, Neji's reaction speed isn't quite that awesome if he needs a full 50 meters of warning to barely dodge kunais (he's probably the only person taken down from afar by a small ninja weapon in the anime). 50 meters is around 10 classroom lengths, for those in high school, or around 20 cars. at that distance, using a wee bit of physics, if the impact of the kunais with the ground resulted in a penetration of less than 10 cm, then (using average ground resistance, which would actually be LESS if the ground was fertile and grassy), then the kunais could not be travelling at speeds over 100kph (which is 3.6m/s). you try it. take a spade, throw it at the ground. you get around 5 cm of penetration, from an unsharpened object. that gives neji around 14 seconds of anticipation vs. objects he was barely able to avoid, vs. the fraction of a second he needs to stop Lee's attacks. That not enough? Lee's drunken strike on Kimi at the end of him dodging tsubaki no mai launched him flying, sending at least enough kinetic energy into kimi's ribs to launch him 20 meters away, and to make him drop his bone sword. Again, for a taijutsu master to lose his grip on his weapon, that must have been a strong hit.

now, think kimi's a speed slouch? watch when he takes the barrel from naruto and shikamaru. He moves so fast that by the time their hands reach where the barrel had been, he's on another branch.

Besides, even tsunade and gai believe that with an entire bottle of sake, his power would be "inconcievable".

[chronicdevil]

Why is it so obvious? why did Kimmi want to snap Lee out of his drunken state?
It's obvious because Kimimaro (who was suffering from a life threatening disease at the time) was able to survive every single one of Gaara's best attacks. Attacks that are much stronger than the ones he used against Lee.

And you conveniently missed the rest of my post which answered that 2nd question.
It might be possible
It might be, but you can say that for everything. For example Konohamaru might have the strongest jutsu in the series. Sasuke might be (and most likely is) a homosexual.

I've already explained exactly why I don't like to debate about Drunken Lee, so please leave it that way, it would save a heck of a lot of time.

[Omid]

It's obvious because Kimimaro (who was suffering from a life threatening disease at the time) was able to survive every single one of Gaara's best attacks. Attacks that are much stronger than the ones he used against Lee.
Yet he was so persistent on making Lee sober again, yeah right.

And you conveniently missed the rest of my post which answered that 2nd question.
Funny, you obviously agree with the rest of my post which saves a lot of time.

It might be, but you can say that for everything. For example Konohamaru might have the strongest jutsu in the series. Sasuke might be (and most likely is) a homosexual.
That's not fair. :p

I've already explained exactly why I don't like to debate about Drunken Lee, so please leave it that way, it would save a heck of a lot of time.
Sjeez, just because D.Lee > your idol Neji, doesn't mean that it can't be used in a debate. :bulb:

[SpiritOfFire]

Yet he was so persistent on making Lee sober again, yeah right.


Funny, you obviously agree with the rest of my post which saves a lot of time.


That's not fair. :p


Sjeez, just because D.Lee > your idol Neji, doesn't mean that it can't be used in a debate. :bulb:I was under the impression that Rock Lee is chronic's favorite character.

[chronicdevil]

Yet he was so persistent on making Lee sober again
Are you saying stuff like that to wind me up? It seems you see only what you want to see, and understand only what you want to understand. And if not, you imagine things and say they happened. Trust me he wasn't trying to make him sober, he was trying to kill him.
Funny, you obviously agree with the rest of my post which saves a lot of time.
I never actually read that long paragraph, I assumed it had something to do with Drunken Lee's unpredictablility, so I just ignored it. Either that or it was more farfetched assumptions that aren't supported by the story.
jeez, just because D.Lee > your idol Neji, doesn't mean that it can't be used in a debate.
Unlike other more simple minded people, I don't succumb to provocations. You can provoke as much as you like though, it might work.

The usual pattern that occurs in our recent debates lately Omid is this:

-You make a farfetched assumption
-I correct it and provide evidence from the story as well as logical ideas and assumptions.
-You change the topic completely and or back your first assumption with another one. Usually something that contradicts something that I already proved or provided sufficient reasoning for.
-Often you say things that I already said and act like you were the one who said it, and or pretend I was the one who made the farfetched assumption that you made and proceed to correct me with my own explanation.
-I get kind of annoyed after wasting a lot of time typing up something that's just ignored.
-The cycle continues.

[SS4Zach]

Just give up Omid!

Neji will win when he is normal or drunken Lee.:rolleyes:

http://s23.photobucket.com/albums/b398/SS4Zach/?action=view&current=RequestedVideo006.flv

[Omid]

Are you saying stuff like that to wind me up? It seems you see only what you want to see, and understand only what you want to understand. And if not, you imagine things and say they happened. Trust me he wasn't trying to make him sober, he was trying to kill him.
Not at all, I just try to say that you should look it through another perspective too, didn't intend to wind you up.:bulb:
I am not seeing what I want to see, I am open for other views but they should atleast be a bit make sense.

I never actually read that long paragraph, I assumed it had something to do with Drunken Lee's unpredictablility, so I just ignored it. Either that or it was more farfetched assumptions that aren't supported by the story.
Ok it's obvious that you aren't open for interesting facts about D. Lee.

Unlike other more simple minded people, I don't succumb to provocations. You can provoke as much as you like though, it might work.

The usual pattern that occurs in our recent debates lately Omid is this:

-You make a farfetched assumption
-I correct it and provide evidence from the story as well as logical ideas and assumptions.
-You change the topic completely and or back your first assumption with another one. Usually something that contradicts something that I already proved or provided sufficient reasoning for.
-Often you say things that I already said and act like you were the one who said it, and or pretend I was the one who made the farfetched assumption that you made and proceed to correct me with my own explanation.
-I get kind of annoyed after wasting a lot of time typing up something that's just ignored.
-The cycle continues.[/QUOTE]
I am not trying to do that, you make me look like I am the bad guy here which I am not.

Just give up Omid!

Neji will win when he is normal or drunken Lee.:rolleyes:

http://s23.photobucket.com/albums/b398/SS4Zach/?action=view&current=RequestedVideo006.flv
I pointed out that Neji gets owned by Drunken Lee, if lee is unpredictable, then neji reads lee wrong, kaitens when he thinks lee is about to attack, lee watches him spin, then lee hits neji as he slows down (also your vid is Neji vs Kakashi, not Lee :bulb: ) With what does he hit? if Lee hits with primary lotus, which he has time to prepare due to neji spinning, neji loses, since his ability to release chakra hasn't been shown to rip objects that aren't reliant on chakra flow, and being trapped in the arm wrappings will prevent him from spinning. even without that (i.e. drunken lee can't use the gates), Neji is opened to a rather forcible strike.

[SS4Zach]

I know it's Kakashi

Neji can use his eyes to beat him (O) (O).

[chronicdevil]

Not at all, I just try to say that you should look it through another perspective too, didn't intend to wind you up.
I am not seeing what I want to see, I am open for other views but they should atleast be a bit make sense.
That's the thing, I do explain everything. If you don't understand what I've said, ask and I'll make it clearer. I've already said that using unpredictability in a debate is pointless, it's just like using luck in a debate, it doesn't work.
Ok it's obvious that you aren't open for interesting facts about D. Lee.
I know all there is to know about Drunken Lee, and what you say aren't facts that help in this discussion. It's a fact that he's faster than normal Lee. It's also a fact that he's unpredictable. But it's also a fact that Drunken Lee is a totally different fighter to Rock Lee. He doesn't fight like Rock Lee, and therefore can't use Lee's techniques. HE'S DRUNK FOR CRYING OUT LOUD! He's a comedy character, NOT to be taken seriously, so why are you taking him seriously.
I am not trying to do that, you make me look like I am the bad guy here which I am not.
I'm not trying to make you look like the bad guy, and sorry if I made you think that. I'm just saying what's been going on. I spend a lot of time typing up responses in discussions, and you don't seem to be considering my statements seriously. It's like you'll do anything to make it seem like you're right, when you're not.


OK hopefully this is the last time I need to explain this:

Lee without weights cannot beat Neji. Why? Because if Lee could, he would not have revealed his weights to Neji so reluctantly. Neji is on his team, Neji knows about Lee's weights, and therefore knows he can beat him. Even Lee knows this, as he still works hard to surpass him.

Gai proves that Lee cannot defeat Neji without the Gates because he says something like "the secret to beating Neji is this high speed combo" (i.e. the Ura renge). Neji (who's always calm and collected, was surprised to see Lee open the gates, indicating that he never knew about it, as Lee was saving the Ura renge to beat him, and not his weights). Gai knows about Drunk Lee, so if Drunk Lee could beat him, he would have said so, afterall he trains both of them and knows they're capability.

[Omid]

That's the thing, I do explain everything. If you don't understand what I've said, ask and I'll make it clearer. I've already said that using unpredictability in a debate is pointless, it's just like using luck in a debate, it doesn't work.
Alright I will take that in account. :up:

I know all there is to know about Drunken Lee, and what you say aren't facts that help in this discussion. It's a fact that he's faster than normal Lee. It's also a fact that he's unpredictable. But it's also a fact that Drunken Lee is a totally different fighter to Rock Lee. He doesn't fight like Rock Lee, and therefore can't use Lee's techniques. HE'S DRUNK FOR CRYING OUT LOUD! He's a comedy character, NOT to be taken seriously, so why are you taking him seriously.
Fair enough but since I don't understand one thing here, then I will ask a simple question: why didn't they put Lee in the fillers? I mean, I may be mistaken but I've learned that episode 1 untill 135 are suppose to be canon.
Then ok I guess you're right about him being a comedy character, I just thought that Drunken style Kung Fu was an martial arts.

I'm not trying to make you look like the bad guy, and sorry if I made you think that. I'm just saying what's been going on. I spend a lot of time typing up responses in discussions, and you don't seem to be considering my statements seriously. It's like you'll do anything to make it seem like you're right, when you're not.
Well I appreciate that and took it in account for future debates. :up:
Getting feedback is good actually, it can improve your debatting skills.

OK hopefully this is the last time I need to explain this:
Let's see.

Lee without weights cannot beat Neji. Why? Because if Lee could, he would not have revealed his weights to Neji so reluctantly. Neji is on his team, Neji knows about Lee's weights, and therefore knows he can beat him. Even Lee knows this, as he still works hard to surpass him.
That's an reasonable assumption.

Gai proves that Lee cannot defeat Neji without the Gates because he says something like "the secret to beating Neji is this high speed combo" (i.e. the Ura renge). Neji (who's always calm and collected, was surprised to see Lee open the gates, indicating that he never knew about it, as Lee was saving the Ura renge to beat him, and not his weights).
I see, but I wonder though; would Lee really use an suicidal technique against his rival, Neji? I mean, sure he learned it but since they kinda got used to eachother through becoming friends, it seems that Lee. Remember, I am just asking.

Gai knows about Drunk Lee, so if Drunk Lee could beat him, he would have said so, afterall he trains both of them and knows they're capability.
That makes sense.

[chronicdevil]

OK not saying what you think is even worse than what I was complaining about above. You shouldn't hold back your thoughts just because you think I'm going to bite your head off, because I'm not :haha:

All I was saying was that you need to really carefully consider what I mentioned when typing your statements, just so that no one has to repeat themselves.
Fair enough but since I don't understand one thing here, then I will ask a simple question: why didn't they put Lee in the fillers? I mean, I may be mistaken but I've learned that episode 1 untill 135 are suppose to be canon.
Then ok I guess you're right about him being a comedy character, I just thought that Drunken style Kung Fu was an martial arts.
I wouldn't know, I don't watch the fillers.

And Drunken Kung Fu is a real style, of course it doesn't really increase speed or anything. And practitioners usually actually know what they're doing, unlike Drunken Lee, who's actually genuinely drunk. Which is why I don't like discussing him, because he's not aware of anything.
I see, but I wonder though; would Lee really use an suicidal technique against his rival, Neji? I mean, sure he learned it but since they kinda got used to eachother through becoming friends, it seems that Lee. Remember, I am just asking.
Not sure, he was probably saving it for Neji, even though if it did come down to it, he probably wouldn't use it, because he can only use it to protect many important people as well as protect his way of the ninja. Although he might use it, just so as not to insult Neji by holding back.

[Omid]

OK not saying what you think is even worse than what I was complaining about above. You shouldn't hold back your thoughts just because you think I'm going to bite your head off, because I'm not :haha:
Hahaha that's true indeed, but better to keep an old friend rather than lose one because of an debate. :haha:

All I was saying was that you need to really carefully consider what I mentioned when typing your statements, just so that no one has to repeat themselves.
Yes I took them in account though but I wonder though; do you think Neji's ultimate defense; Kaiten; would be effective against Rock Lee's tajitsu?

I wouldn't know, I don't watch the fillers.

And Drunken Kung Fu is a real style, of course it doesn't really increase speed or anything. And practitioners usually actually know what they're doing, unlike Drunken Lee, who's actually genuinely drunk. Which is why I don't like discussing him, because he's not aware of anything.

Not sure, he was probably saving it for Neji, even though if it did come down to it, he probably wouldn't use it, because he can only use it to protect many important people as well as protect his way of the ninja. Although he might use it, just so as not to insult Neji by holding back.
Just a note, which i want to point out: Rock Lee's speed is totally natural, and unlike sasuke, he doesn't run out of energy fast. Sasuke was able to copy his movements with sharingan, but couldn't keep it up for very long because he hasn't trained as physically extensively as Lee has.

During the Gaara fight, Lee read Gaara's defences, and figured out a way to get through them... He has, however, been plain outclassed in every fight. He went up against Gaara, the most retardedly powerful gennin there is. It took both sasuke and naruto their entire chakra reserves to disable him. He went up against the 3 sound nins, and outmaneuvered them pretty well, but couldn't stand up to the fact that there were 3. He went up against Kimi, who is currently like the 3rd/4th strongest person in the series, before Itachi and Oro (and kisame, but we haven't seen him break out his funky fresh moves yet). He wrecked Gaara, Naruto and Lee, only losing to disease.

The only fight he had against someone of his league was sasuke: even the sharingan couldn't help sasuke predict and defend in time.

Besides, the fight between Hinata and Neji wasn't used to show anything except the way jyuuken works: You can't hit someone in the finger and kill them, you need to flow the chakra into the inner coils system, which is at the chest. Hiashi strikes the torsos of the sand ninjas, not their arms because of that.

CD, I got hinted that rock said that jyuuken didn't need to forcefully hit someone physically, and that even a light poke was dangerous. Having said that, jyuuken has never hit someone without a contact, save for the web tube attack. The only people we know that can use chakra at non-point blank ranges are temari, asuma, and kabuto ;) out of all of those, kabuto's chakra scalpel is most similar to jyuuken, and even he, a jounin, says that its hyper short range, and that its not too accurate.
Lets examine that although note that it's not serious, byakugan/Jyuuken is built on redirection and counter attacks right?
Sharingan/Standard Uchiha is based on prediction and ninjutsus.
I think D.S. against Sharingan, i'd say that its a huge liability. Why? Sharingan takes away ALL advantage that the drunken style confers, and ninjutus, specifically fire, takes advantage of all its weaknesses. Also, fire causes alcohol to burn... which really has nothing to do with the fight, but it would be a cute little side event: "oh no! you've destroyed my sake!!!! for that you will pay!" just kidding, I know you don't want to talk about the drunken part so I know I know I just shut up for now about Drunken Lee because it's not usefull in debates. :haha:

[chronicdevil]

Hahaha that's true indeed, but better to keep an old friend rather than lose one because of an debate.
A debates a debate, I don't really keep stuff like friendship in mind in a debate, meaning friendship is unlikely to be affected because of one...unless we were to verbally insult each other or something like that.
do you think Neji's ultimate defense; Kaiten; would be effective against Rock Lee's tajitsu?
Neji's defense is effective against most things, which is why it's an absolute defense. And Taijutsu is generally the weakest compared with Genjutsu and Ninjutsu, so I don't know why it wouldn't be effective. It's a chakra defense, you can't really break through it with just Taijutsu.
jyuuken has never hit someone without a contact, save for the web tube attack
Actually if you're not including the Kaiten (which is a Gentle fist style attack), Neji also has another attack he uses after the time skip, it's called Hakke Kusho, a move that works like the Kaiten, but instead of using the chakra like a dome defense, he directs and controls the chakra and can attack with it without making physical contact. With Byakugan, he can use a similar method to fire his chakra at the tenketsu without touching them, how cool is that?
The only people we know that can use chakra at non-point blank ranges are temari, asuma, and kabuto
Actually a lot of people can use techniques outside point blank range. In fact almost everyone can or could.

[Omid]

A debates a debate, I don't really keep stuff like friendship in mind in a debate, meaning friendship is unlikely to be affected because of one...unless we were to verbally insult each other or something like that.
Hehehe good to hear that. :up: :D

Neji's defense is effective against most things, which is why it's an absolute defense. And Taijutsu is generally the weakest compared with Genjutsu and Ninjutsu, so I don't know why it wouldn't be effective. It's a chakra defense, you can't really break through it with just Taijutsu.
Interesting but do you think that Lee (opened the fifth gate) can break through Kaiten? I mean, his attacks are Taijutsu style afterall. :confused:

Actually if you're not including the Kaiten (which is a Gentle fist style attack), Neji also has another attack he uses after the time skip, it's called Hakke Kusho, a move that works like the Kaiten, but instead of using the chakra like a dome defense, he directs and controls the chakra and can attack with it without making physical contact. With Byakugan, he can use a similar method to fire his chakra at the tenketsu without touching them, how cool is that?
Lol that's the part I did not read yet about Neji, I think I am going to read some Manga now shortly before I embarras myself even more...

Actually a lot of people can use techniques outside point blank range. In fact almost everyone can or could.
Point taken.

[Dbfan]

I seen someone say Kimi. Well, if Chronic didn't already say this, Kimi was sick when he battled Lee. He was nearly dead. Kimi, fully healthy, he'd take Lee and rip him apart.

[Majin Trunks]

I think Rock Lee and Neji fighting without gates opened Neji would totally win.
Lee gates opened,well I don't know result from my opinion Neji is better

[*DDB_Knuxy]

Well, after the time skip, little is to be seen about what either of them have learned, so it'd be hard to tell right now...

But if you were going from when they were in the Chunnin Exams, then Rock Lee, noooooo doubt. The 5 gates that he can open are killer. Sure, Neji could use his "absolute defense" but how long can he really keep that up against all the fast, hard hits that Lee would be bringing down on him? I think the Kaiten only lasts a few seconds anyway, so with his speed and stamina, I think Rock Lee would whoop Neji.

Err. But anyway, yeah, Rock Lee in pre-timeskip.

I seen someone say Kimi. Well, if Chronic didn't already say this, Kimi was sick when he battled Lee. He was nearly dead. Kimi, fully healthy, he'd take Lee and rip him apart.

Well, in my opinion, if Garra hadn't showed up, Lee would've been dead meat against Kimimaro.

[blackman34]

if rock can somehow attack him at the blind spot then prolly

[Ekco_Star]

Lee would throw Neji around like a rag doll. Considering the fact that when he takes off his weights he is extremely fast, If he unlocked the 6 gates he would be so fast he would plummel Neji into the next Chuunin Shiken. The only chance Neji would have is to hit his chakara points somehow. I doubt even the 128 point strike would work, Lee is just too fast. Let's not even get Drunken Lee into this. He would decimate him. If he put up a fight with Kimimaro while he was still injured, he would ruin Neji. Drunken Lee with 6 Gates unlocked would be a powerful force.

[YukishiroEnishi]

I honestly have no clue....I suppose Lee would win in the end.

[UFCHAMP]

Actually i was right because i said and i quote "If it was a normal fight", which means if he was sober then Neji would win.Yes you are correct in the fact that drunken Lee would beat Neji.

i dont think that lee would ever beat neji even if lee opens his 5th gate

[Majin Trunks]

I think the same too.Lee gets his beaten cause his brows are too heavy!:haha:

Seriously,Neji would be scared to death from Rock Lee Unibrow wink!