Promoting piracy?

[kaboro]

We all know piracy exists. We all agree it is normal for game companies to fight against it. But when game companies sell a product that does not work because of badly programmed game protection, this actually encourages piracy and gives it a good name. I paid good money for a game that does NOT work because of copy protection when i could have downloaded a FREE pirated version that DOES WORK....this is unacceptable and game companies should wake up and realise that their idiocy promotes piracy.

[Angelus_Lacrima]

Well yes, and no. Pirated versions usually do not work as well as a retail version. But the truth of the matter is that Atari uses poor planning and judgement when it comes to protecting its products. When other companies are using serial codes and milder copyright protection, Atari is using a drastic version that will wreck any P2P programs you may have installed and in my case, shut my Nero down making me reload it just so I could finish burning my digital photography homework onto a DVD. And I have heard this is also a problem with NWN2 so i am reluctant to purchase that game.

[gregmcc]

NWN2 runs fine on my machine - a great game, which is more than I can say for Silverfall

[SoulForge]

Pirated versions work the same. Nero isn't a P2P program.

[Sblade]

I´m very interested in this thread guys. Please state your Silverfall version. Steam or Digital Download

[Angelus_Lacrima]

I have the retail version updated with patch. Just got a new computer so I am retesting Silverfall tonight. ^_^ And no Nero isn't P2P. But limewire is. Killed my friends limewire too.

[Yotsuba]

Pirated versions usually do not work as well as a retail version.

Are you speaking from personal experience or based on the "factual" information put out by publishing companies who are always looking for excuses that don't make themselves look bad when they don't manage to reach the profits they forcast?

[MarkQuinn]

NWN2 runs fine on my machine - a great game, which is more than I can say for Silverfall

Funny, as I believe preceisely the opposite. To each his own I guess. :confused:

[reeferisme]

Yotsuba... Most of the time pirated versions run better and you usually you dont have to keep the cd/dvd in the player. However you wont be able to use any patches that come out or expansions.
As I have said elsewhere I have friends that try pirated versions first to check the game , then if they enjoy and dont find to many bugs they go and buy the game. In a way it makes sense, but I am not promoting illegal actions of any kind.

[reeferisme]

Yotsuba... Most of the time pirated versions run better and you usually you dont have to keep the cd/dvd in the player. However you wont be able to use any patches that come out or expansions.
As I have said elsewhere I have friends that try pirated versions first to check the game , then if they enjoy and dont find to many bugs they go and buy the game. In a way it makes sense, but I am not promoting illegal actions of any kind.

[MagikMan74]

Well yes, and no. Pirated versions usually do not work as well as a retail version.

To make that claim shows that either a) you've never dealt with any pirated software and are making unwarranted claims on the matter or b) you've never dealt with any pirated software and are making unwarranted claims. The fact of the matter is that software protection does nothing any longer except hurt the end user that actually goes out and buys the game. Pirated software works "better" than store bought for the simple matter that you don't have to worry about having the CD in. There are only two drawbacks to using pirated: 1) multiplayer on the internet will not work (LAN still does). 2) You can't immediately apply the patch when it officially is released, however, give them a day or two and someone will "crack" the patch as well.

as a matter of fact: Silverfall Update 1.17-ViTALiTY
that was released today. Don't get me wrong, I am not a large supporter of pirating software and never buying it. I am a programmer though, so I keep my eyes on what's going on, and I'm aware the issues things cause. Companies should focus less on copy protection and more on enjoyment. By enabling this copy protection they are limiting there purchasing and expanding the pirating. With that being said, I have downloaded a game or two in my time, if I'm impressed with it and want to keep up with the online aspects, I WILL buy it. To be honest though, I've actually bought games before and then downloaded the cracks so I could remove the copy protection.

My two cents.

[Ominous Gamer]

I've seen anti SecuRom threads for NWN2, TDU, and Silverfall.

Yet all I've seen come out of Atari employees on the matter is that they plan to continue using it, and all issues are problems of SecuRom (owned by Sony) and need to be reported to them.

Talk about not giving a crap about the customer.

[x0rsw1tch]

As I have said elsewhere I have friends that try pirated versions first to check the game , then if they enjoy and dont find to many bugs they go and buy the game. In a way it makes sense, but I am not promoting illegal actions of any kind.

I do the same, but I can say that playing a game without its "copy protection" has many benefits which does include the obvious that you dont need to use the disc, which has its own benefits there as well. Basically, besides the obvious of those; at times I have experienced better performance when the "copy protection" is not there, and I always get a nocd/dvd for every game I bought. After install the discs are placed where they cannot be damaged or worn, no worries about the "copy protection" messing up my system (i run a tight ship so to speak), and like i said earlier sometimes runs better in terms of performance. Hell, I've even read some NFO's where developers messed something up and its fixed in the nocd/dvd.
Honestly, I have never once ran into trouble with any game using them, and I have a lot of games; and I am a true believer in a try beofre you buy scenario. I have saved a lot of money from not buying buggy/unstable games or bad ports, and I do not accept that from any developer/publisher. We as consumers dont have many rights in this regard, so I suggest others to do the same. And remember, if you like it, buy it!

[kaboro]

As the starter of this thread I dont think i like the direction it took and i think the admins should close it before it degenerates even more.
Yes, bad copy protection that prevents legit customers from using the product is stupid but before you guys start going on about how well the pirated software works and how it is better than the original.....please think about it:
1. If piracy wouldnt have spread so much, companies didnt have to come up with protections in the first place.
2. "try before you buy" is a poor excuse for piracy and it only leads to the downfall of smaller software companies that cannot afford the hit, therefore what piracy really leads to is less diversity and quality on the shelves.
3.Not all but quite a few pirated software come with trojans and other mallicious programs that cannot be detected before the program is installed and run.
4.Long ago you could rent and/or take PC games back to store no problem, now you cant do that anymore mostly because of the rampant piracy going on.

[x0rsw1tch]

1. If piracy wouldnt have spread so much, companies didn't have to come up with protections in the first place.
Very true.
2. "try before you buy" is a poor excuse for piracy and it only leads to the downfall of smaller software companies that cannot afford the hit, therefore what piracy really leads to is less diversity and quality on the shelves.
How so? If you buy a product from a store, they give you 14-30 days and if it doesn't work for you, you can take it back for a refund. Why should games be any different? If a game doesn't work no my machine, causes crashes, or is buggy, unfinished or whatever; why I do I have to be out $30-$50? It's a principle thing, and people do abuse it. Everything that exists in the service of a citizen/comsumer gets abused. If I counted the number of games that didn't work as intended on my machine, I would be out several hundred dollars. Sorry, but it is not a poor excuse, but I cannot vouch for the poeple that do abuse it. Developers who create a good quality software more than deserve the money paid for their hard work; there is no dispute there. But when you have things like crappy ports, buggy software, and the like; and when they refuse to fix something broken, then no, they do not deserve the $$$. That goes with anything you purchase.
3.Not all but quite a few pirated software come with trojans and other mallicious programs that cannot be detected before the program is installed and run.
From the people who dont know what they are doing, then yeah. Can't say thats happened to me. I run a tight ship here.

4.Long ago you could rent and/or take PC games back to store no problem, now you cant do that anymore mostly because of the rampant piracy going on.
Yup, its a shame.

btw, I bought silverfall ;) Despite the minor annoyances, its a great game and I'm glad I bought it.

[Yotsuba]

it only leads to the downfall of smaller software companies that cannot afford the hit, therefore what piracy really leads to is less diversity and quality on the shelves.

I know of at least one small UK based software company that managed to make itself popular and stay in business despite refusing to add copy protection to their games. Pirates didn't kill them off, so to claim that it would is something I would ask to see real evidence of, while also taking into account the quality of the products of the company that claims they went out of business due to piracy.

I personally don't pirate games, but I also don't accept the claims that it is what causes companies to go out of business. I see it as a claim made by the creators of copy protection simply to keep themselves in business. Not to mention that the addition of copy protection can actually voilate consumer rights - in particular fair usage rights.

[MagikMan74]

To vouch against the Try Before you Buy scenario in software is asinine. Would you buy a car without jumping behind the wheel first? For that matter, if you went to a store to buy a hinge for a door, would you not open and close it a lot before you made the purchase, to ensure it didn't catch or squeak or any other defect? Of course you wouldn't. Yes software companies release demos so that people can try the stuff out before they purchase it, blah blah. The actual released software, games mostly, is very different than the demo release. A lot of the times the system spec requirements alone are different on the demo. You're right, you can't return software anymore, unless you want to swap out for the exact same piece of software. So why should I get stuck with a $50 piece of code that does nothing more than bug out on me?

As far as your claim that the pirated versions are loaded with malware, well, I'd hate to see where you were either A)getting your software, or B) getting your information.

The fact remains that yes, pirating software in itself is a wrong practice, however, it will not go away. So you can either use it as a venue to ensure that you don't waste your money, or you can not use it at all. Software companies should improve their support, not their "protection", because there will always be cracks for it.

p.s. yes, 90% of people downloading pirated software have no intention of buying it. I do not condone that act in any way, but like was said earlier, everything can be used maliciously.

[Angelus_Lacrima]

To make that claim shows that either a) you've never dealt with any pirated software and are making unwarranted claims on the matter or b) you've never dealt with any pirated software and are making unwarranted claims. The fact of the matter is that software protection does nothing any longer except hurt the end user that actually goes out and buys the game. Pirated software works "better" than store bought for the simple matter that you don't have to worry about having the CD in. There are only two drawbacks to using pirated: 1) multiplayer on the internet will not work (LAN still does). 2) You can't immediately apply the patch when it officially is released, however, give them a day or two and someone will "crack" the patch as well.


My two cents.
Wanna know WHY I don't resort to using pirated games? Because "multiplayer on the internet will not work" and also because sometimes they are loaded with trojans upon download mostly through p2p programs, and sites that boast cd cracks. All of my friends who use pirated games have such problems as maps not working, the game not working and they can't exactly call tech support. And you seem to have a huge amount of knowledge on it yourself for one who seems to think its so wrong.

[MagikMan74]

Wanna know WHY I don't resort to using pirated games? Because "multiplayer on the internet will not work" and also because sometimes they are loaded with trojans upon download mostly through p2p programs, and sites that boast cd cracks. All of my friends who use pirated games have such problems as maps not working, the game not working and they can't exactly call tech support. And you seem to have a huge amount of knowledge on it yourself for one who seems to think its so wrong.

If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them. Isaac Asimov

You can discover what your enemy fears most by observing the means he uses to frighten you. Eric Hoffer

I won't continue with the quotes, I just find them easier than to try to explain matters myself. What you wish to assume about me is of no import whatsoever, however you need to ensure that your opinions don't cloud everything else. Just because I know with whom I deal with, doesn't make them my friends.... I take that back, I'll give you one more quote:

If you know yourself but not your enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. Sun Tzu - Art of War

[Yotsuba]

Wanna know WHY I don't resort to using pirated games? Because "multiplayer on the internet will not work" and also because sometimes they are loaded with trojans upon download mostly through p2p programs, and sites that boast cd cracks. All of my friends who use pirated games have such problems as maps not working, the game not working and they can't exactly call tech support. And you seem to have a huge amount of knowledge on it yourself for one who seems to think its so wrong.

As I already stated, I don't pirate myself, but I do have friends who do. And I don't blame them considering where we live we have *NO* domestic PC game market which means that all games must be imported in, especially if you wish to play them in English. But that's besides the point. The point is, that not one of them has ever suffered from malicious code, key loggers, trojans and so forth. To claim that P2P is rife with trojans and so forth is either a sign of your lack of use of P2P (and therefore subsequent lack of knowledge) or your friends have been using the worng places to start their P2P from! Any one who uses Google can find trustworthy P2P sites with little to no trouble (and Google will actually now *warn* you if a site is potentially dangerous). Multiplayer may not work for all games, but there are certainly pirate versions of games that *do* have functioning multiplayer too.

As for the claim about lack of support? Well lets be honest here, even when you do pay for a game the chances of actually getting any meaningful support is slight. Just look at this very board for an example of that!

Just for the record, I paid 39.95 US dollars for Silverfall over Steam, I would have loved to buy it retail, but that would have pushed the price up to 100 US dollars or more. And what do I get in the way of support? One FAQ answer on Steam that states to come here and ask Atari support, and one sticky topic here from Atari that states I need to ask Steam for support. If that's the level of support I can expect after paying 39.95, where is the real incentive to get me to part with my money in the future? This is almost certainly the last game published by Atari that I buy unless I see a significant improvement.

[x0rsw1tch]

Wanna know WHY I don't resort to using pirated games? Because "multiplayer on the internet will not work"

Okay I am not sure that you know what you are talking about here. I have 6-7 games that I play online with a nocd/dvd.

and also because sometimes they are loaded with trojans upon download mostly through p2p programs, and sites that boast cd cracks.

p2p/bitorrent/UseNeXT all have them, but only morons tend get get them. Anything I have ever gotten (about 99%) has already been tested by 3rd parties and released by the scene.

All of my friends who use pirated games have such problems as maps not working, the game not working and they can't exactly call tech support.

The first half of this statement seems to illustrate where you have formulated your opinion, so your basically saying that you have had no personal experience with it yourself. I have also seen some of my less "tech savvy" friends run into problems of the sort, and I always find myself "fixing" their game.

And you seem to have a huge amount of knowledge on it yourself for one who seems to think its so wrong.


I dont think he seems to have much of a problem with it considering:
To vouch against the Try Before you Buy scenario in software is asinine.

p.s. yes, 90% of people downloading pirated software have no intention of buying it. I do not condone that act in any way...

[kaboro]

To vouch against the Try Before you Buy scenario in software is asinine.
I did not "vouch against the try before you buy scenario" all i said is that its used as an excuse for piracy. What most of them really want is not "try before you buy" but free software.
I find it rather interesting that all piracy supporters didnt come up with the one argument that really favours piracy, because in reality piracy is not all bad: Piracy helps software companies to make their products known and used by a larger audience and that is a great benefit, wealthy companies spend a fortune to do just that.
As long as piracy is kept to a minimum its ok, maybe even beneficial, but left uncontrolled it could easily turn into a plague.

[MagikMan74]

... a poor excuse for piracy and it only leads to the downfall of smaller software companies that cannot afford the hit, therefore what piracy really leads to is less diversity and quality on the shelves...

... because in reality piracy is not all bad: Piracy helps software companies to make their products known and used by a larger audience and that is a great benefit, wealthy companies spend a fortune to do just that...

lol, I'm not sure which side of the fence you stand on. You make a valid observation though, Piracy = Free Advertising. The only downside to that is the company has to actually OFFER something worth purchasing. If this warez kiddie downloads this software for free, what incentive does he have to actually purchase it? I have seen, like someone said earlier, the crackers come out with cracks that actually fix issues caused by the company releasing the game. I'm going to finish my drawn out debate here (unless I get called out again) by stating the obvious... Piracy when used to obtain free software with no intention of purchasing, is wrong, plain and simple. However, consider this, how many of those people who download the software ever really had an intention of buying it anyway? Photoshop - $800, for example. Lots of kids download that, they've no way of actually buying it, yet they could turn into a professional and end up working for a large ad company who ends up buying 200 licenses for Photoshop because that's all the kid knows, and he's teaching everyone else. Hypothetical, yes, but possible. I don't like the fact that most people who download software never intend to buy it, but in the grand scheme of things they aren't hurting the market all that much. If software companies spent more resources on support and development, and less on protection, things might be different... but while we're living in a fantasy world, can I have a pony?

[Yotsuba]

Well as you state yourself, they have no intention of buying it. So their downloading it won't hurt the market at all. No potential revenue was lost as there was no revenue to be gained from them in the first place. This is why demos that are representative of the finished product are very very important. I, and many others like me, simply refuse to even consider purchasing a full-priced game if there is no demo. Sure I could pirate it if I wanted, but why should I have to go to that hassle simply because the original developers couldn't be bothered to create a demo? That to me shows that don't really care too much about selling their product anyhow. Just another observation as to how piracy hardly causes the damage the software publishers would like you to believe it does.

[kaboro]

lol, I'm not sure which side of the fence you stand on. If software companies spent more resources on support and development, and less on protection, things might be different... but while we're living in a fantasy world, can I have a pony?

I dont stand on either side of the fence, people who see things in black and white do. In my humble opinion reality consists of miriads of shades of grey between the black and white.
If companies would not spend on protection development, piracy would go out of hand. I believe copy protection is not meant to eliminate piracy but to keep it within reasonable limits.
I started this thread because i consider faulty copy protection a very serious problem. Under no circumstances should copy protection prevent a legit owner from using a product he paid for. That in my mind is somewhat similar to a faulty legal system that charges innocents.

[kaboro]

Well as you state yourself, they have no intention of buying it. So their downloading it won't hurt the market at all. No potential revenue was lost as there was no revenue to be gained from them in the first place.
Perfectly valid point....as long as piracy is kept within reasonable limits.

[SoulForge]

I don't see how creating/updating a copy protection and then the next day its cracked keep ANYTHING under control. Look at the HD-DVD war right now. Less then a day after things are changed, cracked again. It is a waste of money that could be better spent on improving a product.

[Redfoxmagi]

It's kind of funny that when I install Silverfall, everything goes fine and then I try to play it and it tells me to insert my original DVD. For the first couple minutes I just stare at the screen, then open my DVD drive, stare at the disk, re-insert it, and watch the error happen again. Then I look at the forum and the first thread up here is this one. I actually laughed at the ridiculousness of it all. Out of the two games I've bought in the last two weeks, BOTH have had this problem. Silverfall and Oblivion (though in Oblivion's case, it won't even install correctly because of it). I own Nero and because of that, it seems like I'm being penalized.

Hilariously enough, I went through Oblivion's technical support to try to fix what's going wrong and the person I spoke to told me they would send me an e-mail to help me fix this problem. When I got it, do you know what it said? In a roundabout way, it was telling me to uninstall Nero and keep it that way.

Now, it's not Nero's fault that AFTER it was released, people started making games that would interfere with it. If anything, it's the manufacturer's fault for not fully testing their GAMES. I mean, come on. Right now, Oblivion's collecting dust on my desk and it seems that Silverfall's probably going to join it. The rub of the issue is that I can't even return the games because they've been opened. It's kind of irritating seeing that I have a job in this industry and people are doing this. I don't think I'll deal with Atari or Bethesda anytime soon.

[kaboro]

I have Nero installed and Oblivion worked fine since day one, Silverfall gave me the stupid "insert original DVD" message but that was solved after i installed an IDE dvd drive instead of the SATA drive. I have no virtual drive enabled on my system, wonder if that has anything to do with your probelms.

[Maktaka]

I thought I'd share a story of how a publisher SHOULD handle copy protection.

I bought XIII (nifty game) after having played and enjoyed the demo. However, when I tried to run my new game, it simply crashed straight to the desktop with no error messages before the first intro video even played. This is a classic sign of bad copy protection: it's a good disc, but CP fails to validate properly and just craps out without an error message. I sent a message through Ubisoft's tech support email system. Within just two hours I got a reply back with a file that was essentially a legally cracked executable, bypassing the copy protection mechanism completely. I didn't even need the disc in the drive anymore.

Now THAT'S customer support. The customer has purchased a faulty game, and the company acknowledges that the problem is with their software and provides a workaround. They didn't even try to say "uninstall your legal software that we didn't bother to make our software compatible with" or any crap like that, their first response was to actually fix the problem their copy protection caused.

This is also the same Ubisoft that recently abandoned Starforce completely because of the way it interfered with the games.

[Battlehymn]

As far as piracy goes there are points good and bad to it. I have installed cracked versions of games which I later purchased and others I obliterated from my system. I do recall having installed a pirated version of a game (don't remeber the title) and then purchasing it, only to re-install the nocd crack because the performance was sooooo much better.
I have found that often times demos perform quite a bit differently than full release versions, so I don't neccesarily trust them as a gauge.
There are always exceptions ...
The bad to piracy is obvious and the horse has already been beaten enough.
What I'd actually like to see in copy protection is some form of PKI.

And when is the patch going to be released. I'm deploying soon and would have liked to play Silverfall.

Maybe I'll have to rely on STALKER for entertainment ...

[volle]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way. Crappy/buggy games = gamers who want their money's worth = piracy to compensate for being cheated.

As for Silverfall/Atari killing any P2P programs, no way. I have most popular P2P programs installed and they all work fine.

Also all cracks do is allow the game to run without the CD/DVD in. They don't affect graphics/gameplay/whatever else.



Case in point from Monte Cristo's site (http://www.montecristogames.com/en/index.php).

14.03.2007
Silverfall hits German TOP 10

In its first week of sales, Monte Cristo’s gripping 3D action role playing game has entered as expected the TOP 10 ... Notice how it says "gripping" and "as expected"? Now, of course it's a point of view, but seeing as the game only got like a 60% rating on gamerankings.com, I don't think it's a game worthy of being called gripping. To me, marketing tactics like these are biased and false advertizing, and should be punished.

[Aumvaar]

I have no virtual drive enabled on my system, wonder if that has anything to do with your probelms.

I have Daemon Tools virtual drive on my system, & never had a problem installing retail versions of Oblivion & Silverfall.

Now, if only I could come up with a reason to play either game ..... :confused:

[shady8x]

>>> Pirated versions usually do not work as well as a retail version. <<<


Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha ever buy a game with starforce protection or rootkits in it? If your computer wasn't seriously damaged than you are in the minority...

Also several purchased games don't run on all pc's because of their protections... either they become $60 garbage or proof that you own the game that you now have to steal...

Pirated versions work as well or better then not pirated versions, for one no need to scratch up your purchased copy, two they run faster(especially ones where retail continually checks presance of cd in drive...)
oh and there is this thing about them actually working unlike some originals...(especially originals of games you scratched to the point of not being able to play anymore...)

I wouldn't say the companies are promoting piracy just turning customers away... I have personally sworn never to get any game with starforce in it...

[shady8x]

1. If piracy wouldnt have spread so much, companies didnt have to come up with protections in the first place.
2. "try before you buy" is a poor excuse for piracy and it only leads to the downfall of smaller software companies that cannot afford the hit, therefore what piracy really leads to is less diversity and quality on the shelves.
3.Not all but quite a few pirated software come with trojans and other mallicious programs that cannot be detected before the program is installed and run.
4.Long ago you could rent and/or take PC games back to store no problem, now you cant do that anymore mostly because of the rampant piracy going on.

1)Thats not true, if you have any of your old games than you will notice that most of them need the cds to work...
By the time copy-protections came out with games, there were very few people who new how and where to get pirated games...
by battling the pirates the companies created a lot of news buzz and some customer annoyances...
As with everything, if you want something to spread then you make sure people are aware of it...

I would say that it is the protections that brought pirating to were it is not the other way around...

Also the fact that ALL protections are always cracked, makes it so there is simply no point in using them at all...

2)What if you bought food that turned out to be spoiled? You should eat and be thankfull that you got it right? NO!!! If it is spoiled then you bring it back and get your money back!!!

And if the game you bought doesn't even work, you put it in the garbage and say goodbye to your money... Can't do nothing about it...

Your own number 4 actually gives an excellent reason for try before you buy, if you can't bring back a defective product(defective by design) than shouldn't you have the right to see if it is defective first???

3) Not all but almost all pirated software come without any trojans or viruses...If you can't take five minutes to check the pirate group on google for their reputation then thats your problem...
>>>Some software protections like starforce and rootkits are by definition actual trojans and viruses which spy on you and damage your hardware!!!

4)That was a horrible change and that change is the only reason for the try before you buy argument...


By the way, I am actually against piracy, I just can't see it go away and I can't see protection cause anything but customer annoyances...
I think companies have every right to protect their property I just don't see the point in a two week protection(until game is cracked) vs years of not annoying customers... can you?

Wanna know WHY I don't resort to using pirated games? Because "multiplayer on the internet will not work" and also because sometimes they are loaded with trojans upon download mostly through p2p programs, and sites that boast cd cracks. All of my friends who use pirated games have such problems as maps not working, the game not working and they can't exactly call tech support. And you seem to have a huge amount of knowledge on it yourself for one who seems to think its so wrong.

uhh don't use p2p programs??? or go to the crack sites? or play multiplayer games?
All your friends don't know where to get pirated games...

I don't resort to piracy because I am against stealing...would have been a much much better post...

Basically from what you said, if I was to find a site from which you could find hundreds of problem free pirate sites than you would steal hundreds of games?
It would take me about 1 minute to do that if I felt like it... but I am against piracy simply because it is stealing so I wont tell you...

[acal3000]

Pirate versions a lot of times works when are ISOS from DVDs or CDs not Game RIPs (those doesn't work well sometimes because a lot of the stuff is cut down to make the game more small) and need to be get from a good source programs like limewire or Ares are not good source but torrents has more quality on the files and more control over fakes and virus (also had but in less scale atha other p2p porgrams) but yes MP could not work for serial chek things

Also securom conficting with p2p programs I don't think so With with Alcohol120%, Nero or Daemon tools yes but p2p programs no the problem with limewire it must be that the windows installation got messed or maybe registry problems or lack of resources playing the game (You already know it's never a good idea having p2p programs or antivirus whne running a game since take lot's of resources if the av has progarmmed updates or scans or the p2p program downloading music while the game runs hd slowndown you know that)

I agree Securom can sometimes be nasty for it's stupid black listing not running from the CD/DVD burners and having to use a normal CD/DVD roms drive is just stupid. Alot of people just a a single DVD/rW drive on his/her system and don't have another computer to try also is it's ridiculus blacklists like "Emulation Detected" or craps like that is just idiotic a lot of times you can't even validate the original disk in the drive coz the useless protection want to make you uninstall the programs like Alcohol 120% or others and of course no garbage protection company like Securom has the right to tell me what programs I will to have installed on my machine I had that problem with that game recently (TMNT one from Ubi and uses Securom too ) and I had use the no cd crak I didn't uninstall none of my burning porgram just for a useless protection and never will I really don't care if i did wrong or not coz the useless protection didn't let play the game I bought

Things like updating the firmware of the drive it's just useless and if its not done correctly could damage drive since writes a chip inside it

Securom can be nasty sometimes but the protection is just plain easy to bypass I'd be more worried of malware protections like Starfarce garbage like GT Legends have

Also this emulation programs game companies hates has helped me to install games on vista that I couldn't install from original DVD or CD for crap error. Condemned Cirminal Originas gave me an access error and i have make an image from the original and install from virtual drive coz from the original didn't want to work . Was the same for Stronhold Legends I bought like 2 days ago and Gothic 2 long ago coz didn't want to work from orignal

Other games install fine from original the DVD but some not

This is just ironic the hated program gives remedy to the cd access problems
people has

[herk]

Buenas dias!

Thanks for your comments, everyone! I appreciate your thoughts on Silverfall, copy protection, etc. I know that some of you have had issues with your discs, and I'm sorry if the game is not working properly. These issues may be related to SecuROM and/or the installer (created by the developer). Please check out our FAQs, threads, and tech support related to these issues.

We are in fact re-evaluating our copyright protection strategy and hope to make some significant improvements for future games. Unfortunately, copyright protection is a necessary part of game distribution precisely because of piracy. So it's hard to see how promoting piracy helps the problem. Remember, the costs of piracy are generally passed on to the consumers in any industry involving copyrighted material, thereby making the consumer goods more expensive than they have to be.

We're going to have to lockdown this thread because this is not the appropriate place to have this discussion. However, I hope you continue this debate in more appropriate forum.

Thank you!

herk