Comparing SPIKE and DIMPS

[xxnike629xx]

...in regards to improvements made through their games, which do you think did a better job thus far?

I know that there's a chance that BT3 could drastically improve the game, but for now which do you think improved the most?

I think DIMPS showed a lot more improvements than SPIKE.

Budokai 1 started out as a 3D DBZ game with not that many characters. On top of that, it only covered up to the the end of Cell, and nothing to do with fusion or Buu.

Budokai 2 kinda "completed" where Budokai 1 left off, added cel-shaidng graphics, and had a significantly improved roster.

Budokai 3 topped it off by adding more to the roster and significantly (and noticebly) improving the graphics.

With SPIKE, Budokai Tenkaichi 1 started off with cel-shading and covered most of Z and a little bit of GT. It had some GT characters & forms, but for the most part, the roster was severly lacking. The graphics and gameplay was nice, and the Z Evolution was a great idea.

Budokai Tenkaichi 2 significantly improved upon the roster and not too much on the graphics.

Graphically speaking, Budokai Tenkaichi needs to have these things fixed up/improved:

- in game graphics for hands (looks like small blocks)
- opening sequence (should be anime not some average quality fmv opening)
- in game graphics for the aura (could use a refining)
- charging the ki needs to look and "feel" more dynamic
- facial expression during cut scenes
- transforming needs to feel more like the anime (felt too generic in budokai tenkaichi 2)

I hope that Ryo Mito and the other people over at SPIKE can pull this off and make Budokai Tenkaichi 3 a gigantic leap from the first two.

Heck, I'm going to go re-purchase Budokai Tenkaichi 1 for the Disc Fusion thing as well, so I hope I get my money's worth with Budokai Tenkaichi 3.

[Boku77]

personally i like wut spike did for DBz Games and as well dimps...but they're equal company's and i guess if i had to choose between them...SPIKE!

[xxnike629xx]

I wish they took the people who worked on the anime opening and graphics for Budokai 3 and the people who worked on Budokai Tenkaichi (series) gameplay and character roster and put them together.

[P-Buddy]

Spike

- Free Roaming Battles
- Destructible Environments
- Enormous Amount Of Characters

Dimps

- Unique Characters
- Sufficient Amount Of Combination's
- Fantastic Special Effects
- Facial Emotions
- Fluent Character Movements

[xxnike629xx]

Spike

- Free Roaming Battles
- Destructible Environments
- Enormous Amount Of Characters

Dimps

- Unique Characters
- Sufficient Amount Of Combination's
- Fantastic Special Effects
- Facial Emotions
- Fluent Character Movements

Well summarize. :up:

[Boku77]

you can say that again... i've tought about it again and Dimps is kinda better

Its like they brought a soul into the games

[Kazuha Vinland]

Yeah, they truly did. I think it will be difficult for Spike to create a good atmosphere in Tenkaichi 3 without facial expressions, fluent movements, unique characters and everything else that made Budokai 3 a good game:) But as a DBZ game it is good though.

[Boku77]

But Dimps lacked in some stuff and thats where Spike came in..or so i think

[goten+trunks]

It just seems like if something didn't work for Dimps they would drastically change it while with Spike, they wanted to stick with their original plan and just keep adding to it....Dimps were always thinking of huge things they could add or change which really made each game in the trilogy alot different...


EDIT: I also think it was easier for Spike to start making these games because they already knew where Dimps left off and what things in the games were good ideas and what weren't...Think about it, if Tenkaichi 1 had as many characters as Budokai 1, people would have hated the game.

[Boku77]

It just seems like if something didn't work for Dimps they would drastically change it while with Spike, they wanted to stick with their original plan and just keep adding to it....Dimps were always thinking of huge things they could add or change which really made each game in the trilogy alot different...
Excactly!

[duda_pf]

I hope this isn't another ungrateful thread..

Dimps did a great job on B3.. never played any other game, though Shin Budokai 1/2 look great.. the poses, the blasts, costumes, scenarios and story.. especially the Story Mode from B3.. loved it.. flying around and being one character was really cool.. liked especially Tien's clothes.. pretty cool!

but Spike made an important step fro DBZ games which was 3D.. you can't have DBZ games 2D anymore.. Dimps was pretty amazing but Spike took it to another level.. now let's see who's taking it from here!

the models Dimps made appealed to me the most cause it's more Manga and Cartoon that 3D models.. if Spike could make those 3D models of theirs look really Manga like.. i'd buy that game!

[SS5 Trowa]

Spike

- Free Roaming Battles
- Destructible Environments
- Enormous Amount Of Characters

Dimps

- Unique Characters
- Sufficient Amount Of Combination's
- Fantastic Special Effects
- Facial Emotions
- Fluent Character Movements

I am with you on that one,also I think Dimps did a lot better with the gameplay.And I like what Spike did with the behind-the shoulder camera angles is great also Spike made the stages bigger.Well I like Dimps a little better.

[Boku77]

Dimps Basically know wut fans wanted!

[xxnike629xx]

I'm not trying to be ungrateful or anything here.

I'm just being very optimistic about what Budokai Tenkaichi 3 could bring.

SPIKE really did have an upper hand in that they saw DIMPS's progress from Budokai 1, Budokai 2, and Budokai 3. They saw DIMPS's style and probably understood where they were going with it.

I think SPIKE just needs to work mainly on the presentation aspects of the game while working on improving the roster.

Gameplay-wise, SPIKE has done a great job (for the most part).

[DBZ_KILLER]

One of these again i see...
well, i like Dimps simply because of one reason, or you could say more.
They don't lie, and give out fake info like spike do. (chars)
they actually listen to the fans.

[jeffhardyfan]

Dimps Basically know wut fans wanted!
And that's the bottom line. End of story.

[SS5 Trowa]

It just seems like if something didn't work for Dimps they would drastically change it while with Spike, they wanted to stick with their original plan and just keep adding to it....Dimps were always thinking of huge things they could add or change which really made each game in the trilogy alot different...


[quote=duda_pf;9331790]I hope this isn't another ungrateful thread..

Dimps did a great job on B3.. never played any other game, though Shin Budokai 1/2 look great.. the poses, the blasts, costumes, scenarios and story.. especially the Story Mode from B3.. loved it.. flying around and being one character was really cool.. liked especially Tien's clothes.. pretty cool!

but Spike made an important step fro DBZ games which was 3D.. you can't have DBZ games 2D anymore.. Dimps was pretty amazing but Spike took it to another level.. now let's see who's taking it from here!

the models Dimps made appealed to me the most cause it's more Manga and Cartoon that 3D models.. if Spike could make those 3D models of theirs look really Manga like.. i'd buy that game!

I agree with both of you:up:!

[goten+trunks]

One of these again i see...
well, i like Dimps simply because of one reason, or you could say more.
They don't lie, and give out fake info like spike do. (chars)
they actually listen to the fans.


Yes I definitely agree with that. I remember waiting for B3 and reading previews for it. The things Dimps talked about always sounded cool and inovative. Then, once the game came out, the features were just as good (and sometimes even better) as I expected them to be. Spike on the other hand advertises aspects of the game that they shouldn't...They don't lie to fans, they just use certain words to make you hype the game up for yourself to make it seems better than it actually is. Then once the game is out they didn't TECHNICALLY lie about anything...

EDIT: Wow, I've been here almost two years and I just now got my 1,000th post!

[Kazuha Vinland]

Two perfect examples:

1 - Character Rooster: They use the definition of the word "character" incorrectly on purpose in order to attract players. 161 forms is not the same.

2 - "We're going to make cinematic cutscenes more like those from Budokai 1" which is basically Spike's saying for: "We have added subtitles to the battle. You will now be stopped in the middle of the battle because of that a character have to say something. Then you shall be allowed to continue.....":p

[Majin Vegeta2]

they actually listen to the fans.

You're only saying they "lie" to us because we're getting the short end of the stick. Let's face it then, NEITHER of them listened to us. Let's just parade it around. Dimps didn't listen to us by not giving us GT Goku, Spike didn't listen to us by not following Dimps' way of DBZ games, Dimps didn't listen to us because we didn't get free roaming, Spike didn't listen to us because we aren't able to walk/run, Dimps didn't listen to us because we didn't get 3D cutscenes like B1, Spike didn't listen to us because we didn't get actual full blown cities that weren't sandboxes, Dimps didn't listen to us because we didn't get to even EXPLORE LAND, Spike didn't listen to us because we didn't get GT Goten, and the list is nearly ****ing endless for what BOTH didn't listen to us about.

It's a matter of looking at what they didn't give us, you can't say that either ONE of them listened to us because the list of things they didn't listen to are nearly ****ing endless. And people will always think of something ELSE to get on their backs about that isn't in the game. As I said earlier, it's a nearly endless list of things neither developer listened to. NEITHER one listened to us, that's my point. You may as well JUST say that then. I, nor anyone else can see to convince most of the people on these forums about who listened to who because they didn't ANYWAY.

They don't lie, and give out fake info like spike do. (chars)

Okay, Dimps NOR Spike LIED. If Dimps didn't lie, Spike didn't lie. It's just a thought shoved into everyone's mind because of all the ****ing rumors that go around or words being twisted into our favor by others when that isn't the case. AT ALL. Show me one piece of information Spike has lied to us about, give me one piece of information. It can be old, recent, or even new I don't give a damn just show me where you think they lied and I'll tell you the truth of it.

And, don't give me that **** of the French interview, that doesn't count as that isn't Spike. Also, what "fake" information has Spike given out? Or wait! The word you're looking for isn't fake, it's "false" which would also be considered "lying" so technically, it's just one reason why you prefer Dimps. Show me anything that proves Spike as liars and I'll retract my statement of "If Dimps didn't lie, neither did Spike."

Right now, I don't see anything that made Spike liars. It's just a bunch of idiots reading way too much into things and twisting it into our favor because of "NO NEW INFORMATION". It's basically, cannabilism at its finest for news.

As far as I'm concerned, they haven't lied and if they have you'll have to show me. Because clearly, they're misinterpreted or misunderstood.

Until I see evidence or proof of them lying, get over yourselves.

[Kazuha Vinland]

Two perfect examples:

1 - Character Rooster: They use the definition of the word "character" incorrectly on purpose in order to attract players. 161 forms is not the same.

2 - "We're going to make cinematic cutscenes more like those from Budokai 1" which is basically Spike's saying for: "We have added subtitles to the battle. You will now be stopped in the middle of the battle because of that a character have to say something. Then you shall be allowed to continue.....":p
I'll just repeat this post for Majin Vegeta.

[P-Buddy]

Bump. :downcast:

I like this thread. For once people are having a friendly debate.

[DBZ_KILLER]

Your Post

well Dimps did listen more to the fans, and ofc company's have to lie, Dimps in some way lied to, but the fact is Dimps did a better job then spike, and made more fans happy...

[jeffhardyfan]

Bump. :downcast:

I like this thread. For once people are having a friendly debate.
It probably won't stay that way for long.

[P-Buddy]

It probably won't stay that way for long.

:haha:

I hope it does.

[DBZ_KILLER]

it depends on who enters the debate ;)

[jeffhardyfan]

well Dimps did listen more to the fans, and ofc company's have to lie, Dimps in some way lied to, but the fact is Dimps did a better job then spike, and made more fans happy...
Dimps didn't need to lie about anything. So they didn't. Spike on the other hand is incompetant so they feel the need to cover up their asses with a bunch of lies or in a nicer way : with deceitful advertising

[DBZ_KILLER]

Dimps didn't need to lie about anything. So they didn't. Spike on the other hand is incompetant so they feel the need to cover up their asses with a bunch of lies or in a nicer way : with deceitful schemes
Correct in some way.......

[Cpu_PT]

It's nice to see a good friendly debate in the forum =). Well I have to say I prefer spike's work, they took DBZ games to another level with the 3D destructible environments and the improved character roosters. Still many characters doens't mean good characters and there Dimps beat spike. Their characters were unique in their attacks and the way to combine them with combos. The best Dimps did was the uniqueness of the characters and the expressions they gave to them. But to me Spike is closer to the anime/manga and to me that's the most important.

[jeffhardyfan]

To me the only thing spike did good was make the games 3D. Some people say they did good by adding a lot of characters, but what is the use of all those characters if most of them are mere carbon copies of one another? That's where Dimps manifested superior decision-making skills. They didn't add characters unless they could make them unique.

[Majin Vegeta2]

I'll just repeat this post for Majin Vegeta.

I'll...say my dues for each one. :p

1. I see that point. I've noticed that myself, I don't think I need to say more to it.

2. This...could be debateable. Because it's really taken out of context of the question IMO. They haven't technically advertised it yet in any ads of sorts that I can see, so they're technically not lying about it. I'm not trying to cover it up, I'm just trying to say that it's mostly debateable because of these factors.

It's taken out of context because it was an answer to a question in an interview. It's not like they're advertising it in their trailers like they are the character roster so it isn't as bad. I'd really more or less, appreciate it if that statement weren't taken out of context of the original interview. If you're going to post something from an interview, it's better to not go off of it from memory and to just post the original part of the interview where it came from.

I'd rather like it more if it were posted in context than just without the question at hand (which is out of context). So, it's debateable really...:bulb:

But, honestly, aside from maybe one lie, are Spike crooks? No. At least, they're not spouting off information like Donny does. Remember BT1? "60 stories! Black haired Goku!" It's really Donny who doesn't know what he's talking about, not Spike. :haha:

And, the whole 40 hours of story mode for BT2 was actually false advertisement which is a marketing strategy. They do it purposely, it's supposed to make you buy it for that reason. I just figured I'd point this out since it'd probably be mentioned well into this thread anyway. :p

My point is Spike hasn't really lied to us as bad as you and everyone else make it seem. The characters thing is indeed a marketing strategy as well, I'm only going to consider it a "lie" so to speak because it isn't true with the "characters" bit and should really be changed to "forms". But, everything else is undeniably a markerting strategy/false advertisement that shouldn't be taken to heart.

And the whole B1 cutscene fiasco is debatebale and really needs the question and actual statement of the answer posted. Because I don't know if what you're saying is the actual answer or not. I can't take that out of context and be fine with it, y'know what I mean? Not saying I don't trust your words, I'd just prefer to be on the safe side of things. :cool:

[Kazuha Vinland]

Get ready to be owned!:p

But, honestly, aside from maybe one lie, are Spike crooks? No. At least, they're not spouting off information like Donny does. Remember BT1? "60 stories! Black haired Goku!" It's really Donny who doesn't know what he's talking about, not Spike. :haha:
Donny Clay represents Spike. He is given the instructions from Spike, pointing at Spike being the ones lying.

And, the whole 40 hours of story mode for BT2 was actually false advertisement which is a marketing strategy. They do it purposely, it's supposed to make you buy it for that reason. I just figured I'd point this out since it'd probably be mentioned well into this thread anyway. :p
Actually, it was 60 hours. And it is not a legal marketing strategy if it got no rot in reality. It was a lie:sour: I'll rest my case.

[Cpu_PT]

In the marketing war everything goes xD. When they feel desperate they say more than they should, and start exaggerating the facts. And spike seems to be a master at that department...

[Kazuha Vinland]

No, it is the law. You cannot lie about your own products like that without informing the customer about it.

[Cpu_PT]

In portugal that sometimes doesn't really work like that XD.

[goten+trunks]

Well the 60 hours of gameplay thing wasn't really lying. If a person beats it before then, they could say "You're an above-average player" or "You didn't level up every character in the leveling mode" or something like that. There's easy ways of getting around that.

I seem to recall Donny saying there would be mini games in the last game too. Even on Atari's official site it says "-Mini-games and in-game transformations" when no mini-games were including. The only thing was the loading screen "game". So, again, it was a huge exaggeration but...it wasn't technically lying.

See, they just build up the hopes of fans without ACTUALLY lying...Like you guys said...it's all about marketing

[jeffhardyfan]

Well maybe spike can get away with false advertising in Japan. It's against the law here though.* I want an american dbz game developer dammit!* *sarcasm*

[Cpu_PT]

That's kinda hard since DB is a japanese series...

[Three eyes]

Well maybe spike can get away with false advertising in Japan. It's against the law here though. I want an american dbz game developer dammit!

You know any decent fighting games developers in USA? Or in whole America/Europe? I know only about Mortal Kombat series and they aren`t good gameplay wise, anything else? Even wrestling games(raw vs smackdown) are developed in Japan.

1 - Character Rooster: They use the definition of the word "character" incorrectly on purpose in order to attract players. 161 forms is not the same.

Not really, if i can select 161 "forms" from character select menu then i see nothing wrong with calling them characters. If i`m not mistaken Devil Jin is called character in Tekken 5.

[jeffhardyfan]

fix'd

[Wicked Poster]

Dimps>Spike.

[Kazuha Vinland]

Well the 60 hours of gameplay thing wasn't really lying. If a person beats it before then, they could say "You're an above-average player" or "You didn't level up every character in the leveling mode" or something like that. There's easy ways of getting around that.
It took most people between 10 and 15 hours. How do you get that to be "above-average"?

Not really, if i can select 161 "forms" from character select menu then i see nothing wrong with calling them characters. If i`m not mistaken Devil Jin is called character in Tekken 5.
It is okay to call fusions in DBZ for own characters. But that doesn't have anything to do with it really. Tekken is a completely different game. Transformations are not normal in that game. And your "character selection" argument is also wrong. It does only display the base form for each character. You have to switch up or down on an already existing character to go to that form.

[Cpu_PT]

SSJ5Vegeta is right. Forms and characters are different things, a character is a unique "persona" and a form is a transformation for that character.

[ITISIYA]

Comparing Spike to Dimps is like comparing apples to oranges; you just can't. Their games differ too much.

I'm still WAY more excited for a possible Budokai 4, then I'll ever be for a future Tenkaichi installment.

[goten+trunks]

It took most people between 10 and 15 hours. How do you get that to be "above-average"?


It took me somewhere around 25 hours to beat the story mode because I started off playing on the hardest difficulty. If you beat the game (letting EVERY dialogue scene run all the way through) by stopping at each circle, taking all the challenges, and finding everything you could it would come out to equal a lot more time. And if you took the time to level up each character and collect every item from the shop, it would increase it by even more. If you could do all of this in under 60 hours (which would be crazy...) then they could still use the "above-average" excuse.

Though I do agree with you about character selection though. Devil Jin is just an evil personality of the already existing character right? Well, that is the exact same as Majin Vegeta (who was rightfully a different character). But transformations such as Super Saiyan are still THE SAME CHARACTER just with greater power...nothing else...So I agree 100%

[jeffhardyfan]

Comparing Spike to Dimps is like comparing apples to oranges; you just can't. Their games differ too much.

I'm still WAY more excited for a possible Budokai 4, then I'll ever be for a future Tenkaichi installment.
Not really. They are both dbz games; I would also love a budokai 4 but I don't think that will happen.

[Nate321]

1st. I thought this thread was about comparing not contrasting, they both had there vision when it came to there games, one went in the direction of original fighting games and the other went in the direction of the anime. They both tried to please there audience.
2nd. Some of you guys act like you never been lied to. So what if they stretched the truth, grow up every game developer has lied about something when there game came out. Theres to many threads on this one subject and it needs to stop. How about you spike haters save you hate and get on spike after bt3 comes out.
3rd. You will never get what you want if spike wants to make another dbz game after this they will, if the dont it wont be because of some of you guys. And just face it dimps is done making the budokai series games. Some of your excuses for posting in this forum is because you want spike to stop, well pm me when they stop production of bt3 because it is not going to happen. So stop wasting your time hating and talk about something that needs to be improved.

[Kazuha Vinland]

It took me somewhere around 25 hours to beat the story mode because I started off playing on the hardest difficulty. If you beat the game (letting EVERY dialogue scene run all the way through) by stopping at each circle, taking all the challenges, and finding everything you could it would come out to equal a lot more time. And if you took the time to level up each character and collect every item from the shop, it would increase it by even more. If you could do all of this in under 60 hours (which would be crazy...) then they could still use the "above-average" excuse.
Sorry, no offense or anything, but it took me 12 hours at hardest difficulty. I did read through all the text and explored the maps quite some times. I did fairly enough not unlock every single potara though. But Spike did speak about completing the story mode, like in "go through it once". So even if it took you that long, it is still less than the half they promised;)

Though I do agree with you about character selection though. Devil Jin is just an evil personality of the already existing character right? Well, that is the exact same as Majin Vegeta (who was rightfully a different character). But transformations such as Super Saiyan are still THE SAME CHARACTER just with greater power...nothing else...So I agree 100%
Exactly:up:

[dbz kakarot]

not another spike v.s dimps thread there both to diffrent dbz game sereis so they can't be compared becace there diffrent franchises but what ever...
spike
-huge character roster
-lots of stages
-free roam around stage
- and what ever the hell else there is.

[Kazuha Vinland]

I do not see the logic in the argument about that you cannot compare those two games. They are both DBZ games, they are both for the PS2, they do both have a lot of the same features, they do both have weaknesses and strong points and they are fully comparable!

[Three eyes]

So Majin Vegeta is fine as a "seperate" character but Great Ape is not? :)

If i was in their place i would also call them characters. First thing- marketing, sorry but it sounds like crap "60 characters and 50 forms!", "over 100 characters!" sounds like 10 times better. Second thing- it`s not lying, they are selectable before battle, they have different move sets(well SSJ Goku is as similar to Goku as Vegeta is to Majin Vegeta), different looks(some are very similar, but some are not, like Bojack for example).
Yes, SSJ Goku plays like Goku, but Goku also plays like Trunks. There aren`t many unique characters in BT2 so their transformation are also similar. If we want we can say, by extention, that BT2 has like 10 character and lots of alternate costumes and forms.

And your "character selection" argument is also wrong. It does only display the base form for each character. You have to switch up or down on an already existing character to go to that form.

Thats called grouping, when you have so many characters/forms you must do it because otherwise you character select menu will look like crap.

[jeffhardyfan]

Tenkaichi-only fans don't like people to compare b3 and tenkaichi beacause they know tenkaichi is inferior they just don't want to except it.

[Avi DBZ MASTER1]

They are both good at what they do.

[jeffhardyfan]

They are both good at what they do.
Yeah, Spike is good at adding a crapton of useless and xerox characters and failing miserably at copying b3.

[dbz kakarot]

would people quit complaining all's people do is complain,complain,complain i'm done with this damn thread that was started for flame war kicks.:bored:

[P-Buddy]

would people quit complaining all's people do is complain,complain,complain i'm done with this damn thread that was started for flame war kicks.:bored:

Your the only one complaining. Everyone else is stating their opinions in a reasonable manner.

[DBZ_KILLER]

Your the only one complaining. Everyone else is stating their opinions in a reasonable manner.

QFT !

[Avi DBZ MASTER1]

[quote=jeffhardyfan;9332895]Yeah, Spike is good at adding a crapton of useless and xerox characters and failing miserably at copying b3.[/quote

Now I personal think that those who think TENKAICHI is a poor fighter thats because u either don't know how 2 play it or u just have not got variety in ur moves.
Now me I make it as fun as possibe not jus pressing one button or Blasting wave becasue that sucks.
My point being those who don't like it because they suck at the Game.:haha:

[Cpu_PT]

Your the only one complaining. Everyone else is stating their opinions in a reasonable manner.
You're right. I think this is one of the most well discussed threads I've seen in this forum. Ppl aren't flaming, they're posting they're ideas and opinions in an organized and civilized way.

[Kazuha Vinland]

So Majin Vegeta is fine as a "seperate" character but Great Ape is not? :)

If i was in their place i would also call them characters. First thing- marketing, sorry but it sounds like crap "60 characters and 50 forms!", "over 100 characters!" sounds like 10 times better. Second thing- it`s not lying, they are selectable before battle, they have different move sets(well SSJ Goku is as similar to Goku as Vegeta is to Majin Vegeta), different looks(some are very similar, but some are not, like Bojack for example).
Yes, SSJ Goku plays like Goku, but Goku also plays like Trunks. There aren`t many unique characters in BT2 so their transformation are also similar. If we want we can say, by extention, that BT2 has like 10 character and lots of alternate costumes and forms.
Majin Vegeta is not a separate character in Budokai 3:noob: And oozarus can barely count as multiple forms. They are remodeled after each other anyway.

Well, there are people like me that prefers a honest reputation, not being known as a cheater and liar. They could always just say "90 characters, 161 forms all together!". That would still be impressive enough for me. There are often games that contain characters with some form for "hyper mode" that lets your character transform and get other attack. Bleach: Shattered Blades for an example. So different move-sets doesn't really matter. They could just write that additionally to the character information. They do all pretty much play the same. It is just that some characters are able to turn the opponent around with a punch and small details like that. But nothing too extreme. So I would rather say about 5 characters, but with tons of alternate outfits with different fighting animations and special moves. That's about it.


Thats called grouping, when you have so many characters/forms you must do it because otherwise you character select menu will look like crap.

Yeah, it will. Since then it would looked like if there really were that many characters. Don't you see the logic in it? That is exactly why they are forms and not characters. You admit yourself that it would look very badly if each form stood at the side of each other:o

[jeffhardyfan]

[quote=jeffhardyfan;9332895]Yeah, Spike is good at adding a crapton of useless and xerox characters and failing miserably at copying b3.[/quote

Now I personal think that those who think TENKAICHI is a poor fighter thats because u either don't know how 2 play it or u just have not got variety in ur moves.
Now me I make it as fun as possibe not jus pressing one button or Blasting wave becasue that sucks.
My point being those who don't like it because they suck at the Game.:haha:
It doesn't bother me if that's what you want to think but that's not the case at all. The bottom line is: a fighting game needs more than one attack button.

[DBZ_KILLER]

[quote=Avi DBZ MASTER1;9332926]
It doesn't bother me if that's what you want to think but that's not the case at all. The bottom line is: a fighting game needs more than one attack button.

I agree here.
Very stupid move done by spike, to have a kick, and punch button is really important in a fighting game.
look how well it worked in B3.
and it would open up for more combos.

[goten+trunks]

Well, there are people like me that prefers a honest reputation, not being known as a cheater and liar. They could always just say "90 characters, 161 forms all together!". That would still be impressive enough for me. There are often games that contain characters with some form for "hyper mode" that lets your character transform and get other attack. Bleach: Shattered Blades for an example. So different move-sets doesn't really matter. They could just write that additionally to the character information. They do all pretty much play the same. It is just that some characters are able to turn the opponent around with a punch and small details like that. But nothing too extreme. So I would rather say about 5 characters, but with tons of alternate outfits with different fighting animations and special moves. That's about it.



Though that does make a lot of sense, spike would never think that way because, well to be honest, the number of characters is about the main thing they have advertise, so what else could they be shouting all the time? :haha: They just about nothing else to offer...

[ITISIYA]

They are both dbz games...

And that's where the similarities end. They're both based on Dragon Ball...

Aside of that little shared feature, both series are so very different. I could make an entire list of differences between Spike's and Dimps' respective games. But to make a hypothetical long story short; Budokai 3 lays its focus on the fighting itself, Tenkaichi aims to create the perfect DBZ experience.

[jeffhardyfan]

Tenkaichi aims to create the perfect DBZ experience.
By adding a bunch of characters that play the same? Not my idea of the ultimate dbz experience.

[DBZ_KILLER]

By adding a bunch of characters that play the same? Not my idea of the ultimate dbz experience.

Exactly

[jeffhardyfan]

... and don't get me started on the storymode. Good Gawd!

[DBZ_KILLER]

But, they are aiming to make the ultimate DBZ Game, sadly they failed horrible!!!

[jeffhardyfan]

I don't even think spike believes that themselves.

[DBZ_KILLER]

I don't even think spike believes that themselves.

they really think that, believe me, just their attitude, it's like, we rule, we make the best DBZ game ever because of the characters.
just sad:downcast:

[Kazuha Vinland]

Well well, I would not say that they have such a cocky attitude really. They do just intend to speak out about features that do barely have a rot in reality. It is of course a strategic they're using on purpose, and that is also a bad thing. But an high and almighty attitude is not exactly what I would describe it like;):up:

I have to agree with Jeff though, they do probably not believe in it themselves. They are using it as an argument to keep the sales up. That's it. I can really not imagine that the people behind Tenkaichi 3 (which knows it in and out) couldn't possibly recognize the weaknesses like we do.

[ITISIYA]

By adding a bunch of characters that play the same? Not my idea of the ultimate dbz experience.

No, not really. Kamehameha's, teleporting, explosions, crumbling environments...all over the place! That's DBZ, and that's exactly what the Tenkaichi franchise is offering.

However, I fully agree with the fact that Tenkaichi's fighting system lacks severely. I've noted this letdown countless times on these forums. But yea, Tenkaichi is definitely the best DBZ game out there.

[UltimateGoku23]

No comparison Dimps is the best Spike is only good for adding an alright character roster.

[jeffhardyfan]

No, not really. Kamehameha's, teleporting, explosions, crumbling environments...all over the place! That's DBZ, and that's exactly what the Tenkaichi franchise is offering.


They do offer these things to some extent, but not on the scale that it needs to be. I think you know what I mean.

[Kazuha Vinland]

Well, the cinematic cutscenes in Budokai 1 took me on a far more exciting ride than any other game. So if I should rate any game just after their DBZish factor, then Budokai 1 would be high ranked. Probably as number two or three.

But I know what you are referring to. But at the same moment you cannot say that they deliver the DBZ experience very well. Yes, they do include all the features known from the manga and anime. But they aren't on par with them by any means. Each beam attack looks generic, teleporting is highly limited, explosions look like mild clouds or steam, the environments are not fully destructible etc.

So yeah, if it comes to adding the most features from DBZ, then sure. Spike wins hands down. But the quality of the game won't necessarily improve upon that.

[DBZ_KILLER]

Well well, I would not say that they have such a cocky attitude really. They do just intend to speak out about features that do barely have a rot in reality. It is of course a strategic they're using on purpose, and that is also a bad thing. But an high and almighty attitude is not exactly what I would describe it like;):up:

I have to agree with Jeff though, they do probably not believe in it themselves. They are using it as an argument to keep the sales up. That's it. I can really not imagine that the people behind Tenkaichi 3 (which knows it in and out) couldn't possibly recognize the weaknesses like we do.

i just think, they really think they are making an ultimate dbz game.

[Three eyes]

Majin Vegeta is not a separate character in Budokai 3:noob: And oozarus can barely count as multiple forms. They are remodeled after each other anyway.

But if the game had only one Great Ape(lets say Great Ape Vegeta) would you agree that that is a seperate character? And would you mention it in advertisiments?

Well, there are people like me that prefers a honest reputation, not being known as a cheater and liar. They could always just say "90 characters, 161 forms all together!". That would still be impressive enough for me. There are often games that contain characters with some form for "hyper mode" that lets your character transform and get other attack. Bleach: Shattered Blades for an example. So different move-sets doesn't really matter. They could just write that additionally to the character information. They do all pretty much play the same. It is just that some characters are able to turn the opponent around with a punch and small details like that. But nothing too extreme. So I would rather say about 5 characters, but with tons of alternate outfits with different fighting animations and special moves. That's about it.

If you accept that 90% of the companies(not only game companies) are liars then i accept that this thing about characters is a work of liar.

And by the way, you know what hype is?


Yeah, it will. Since then it would looked like if there really were that many characters. Don't you see the logic in it? That is exactly why they are forms and not characters. You admit yourself that it would look very badly if each form stood at the side of each other:o

Missed the point completely. Characters are grouped in character select menu to make it more efficient. First line- main heroes. Second line- more of a secondary heroes. Villains from the same arc are next to each other(like Ginuy force and Frieza, androids and cell, majin stuff, GT ****). Next there is characters from movies. Near the end we have more of a bonus characters from original DB(kid goku, tao pai pai, yajirobe and so on) and at the very end we have custom characters. Same thing with transformations- they are grouped insade a sub menu for easier navigation.
They could have placed every transformation not in sub menu but in main character select menu but then it would be like three times bigger- not efficient. Would you really like to scroll through 150 characters until you find Final Form Cooler? I wouldn`t and i`m glad that Spike at least understands such basic things.

[jeffhardyfan]

So yeah, if it comes to adding the most features from DBZ, then sure. Spike wins hands down. But the quality of the game won't necessarily improve upon that.
What?:eek: I've agreed with everything you've ever said until that. Spike does NOT capture the power of dbz. The best thing, the only thing, good about tenkaichi is the fact that it's 3D.

[Majin Vegeta2]

What?:eek: I've agreed with everything you've said until that. Spike does NOT capture the power of dbz. The best thing, the only thing, good about tenkaichi is the fact that it's 3D.

Erm, how can you say Spike hasn't captured the power of DBZ? I think they have, and it'll only improve in the third installment. To not see that work, is like, me not having anything to retort.

If all you think Spike has done good is 3D, you need to do some replaying of BT2 because I think that's crazy to think that's all Spike has done. :bulb:

[jeffhardyfan]

Even the world destruction in tenkaichi looks weak in comparison to b3.

[Kazuha Vinland]

But if the game had only one Great Ape(lets say Great Ape Vegeta) would you agree that that is a seperate character? And would you mention it in advertisiments?
I would not count them as separate characters really. They are part of the character just like any other form. But I would perhaps include the word "giants" when describing the type of characters being in the game.

If you accept that 90% of the companies(not only game companies) are liars then i accept that this thing about characters is a work of liar. And by the way, you know what hype is?
Now where did you get that number from? I do not think you will ever be able to calculate such a thing. It does of course also vary from country to country. But I can guarantee you that not many companies would be comfortable with having negative criticism hanging around them all the time. So most markets achieve their goals through "clean" commercials. Sure they are to attract people to buy things they don't really need, but the products are not all out false. Hype is btw used often to attract attention from the audience through previews, pictures, videos and cold facts. Statements with no rot in reality is something very different.

<Order for character selection>
So why do you think that they make subcategories for transformations then? Simply because of that they are part of the character. Or else it wouldn't be possible to have such a system at all.

What?:eek: I've agreed with everything you've said until that. Spike does NOT capture the power of dbz. The best thing, the only thing, good about tenkaichi is the fact that it's 3D.
I think there might have been a communication error. What I meant was that Tenkaichi 3 do have most things from the anime, such as teleporting, special moves, 3D environments etc. BUT each of these are made so badly, that it won't necessarily lead to the game being good because of it:up:

[jeffhardyfan]

I see.

[Jango_zilla]

Spike

- Free Roaming Battles
- Destructible Environments
- Enormous Amount Of Characters

Dimps

- Unique Characters
- Sufficient Amount Of Combination's
- Fantastic Special Effects
- Facial Emotions
- Fluent Character Movements


You forgot "Total Fanboy game" for spike

[Kazuha Vinland]

Get out of the thread if you got nothing useful to say:o

[xxnike629xx]

@ Jango_zilla
Please do not post in here if you have nothing constructive with at least an attempt to back up your claims with some useful criticism or opinions.

All you're doing is proving that you are a troll, taking up space in my thread, waste people's time, etc.



Anyway...

I'm just surprised to see how quickly this thread is filling up. I mean it's already on its third page.

Going back on topic, I hope that SPIKE actually tries with this game. Graphically, this game could definitely use touch ups here and there. Let's just hope that SPIKE actually did improve as much as they've been claiming that they did.

Thus far, their presentation of the game at conferences and shows (like E3) have been lackluster and very disappointing. So we'll have to see what they can show us at Liepzieg which will start in a few days.

Something I never liked about the Budokai Tenkaichi games were the in-game graphics used on hands (looks blocky, lacks fingers and whatnot), the ki charging animation (seems to be better with BT3), transformation sequences (seems to have improved with BT3), lack of facial expression during cut scenes, and lack of few key transformations (i.e. hildegarn's base form), and especially the 3D opening sequence (it's nice when they actually work on it, but SPIKE should definitely go with the anime style).

I hope that Budokai Tenkaichi 3 will actually be worth the full $39.99 MSRP that I will pay for the game later when it is released.

[Majin Vegeta2]

Well, there's a reason for certain people without a base form.

There's no real use for the base form, there's no real moves they can get from it from the show. Which is why Hildegarn and Nova Shenron both don't have a base form, not enough substantial moves to grab that aren't already apart of the transformation. The way I see it, if they had their base forms, you'd have a generic moveset for the base forms and then a unique moveset for the transformation. Now, as I recall, we don't want generic movesets for characters, amirite? Or amiwrng?

Yeah, I don't see the big difference in movesets between Hildegarn Base and Hildegarn Final form. They both did the samethings, the only difference that I could see was there power/strength. Not much else to go by that differentiates them enough to have a base form iirc.

That's the basic explaination, as far as I can tell anyway.

[DBZ_KILLER]

@ Jango_zilla
Please do not post in here if you have nothing constructive with at least an attempt to back up your claims with some useful criticism or opinions.

All you're doing is proving that you are a troll, taking up space in my thread, waste people's time, etc.



Anyway...

I'm just surprised to see how quickly this thread is filling up. I mean it's already on its third page.

Going back on topic, I hope that SPIKE actually tries with this game. Graphically, this game could definitely use touch ups here and there. Let's just hope that SPIKE actually did improve as much as they've been claiming that they did.

Thus far, their presentation of the game at conferences and shows (like E3) have been lackluster and very disappointing. So we'll have to see what they can show us at Liepzieg which will start in a few days.

Something I never liked about the Budokai Tenkaichi games were the in-game graphics used on hands (looks blocky, lacks fingers and whatnot), the ki charging animation (seems to be better with BT3), transformation sequences (seems to have improved with BT3), lack of facial expression during cut scenes, and lack of few key transformations (i.e. hildegarn's base form), and especially the 3D opening sequence (it's nice when they actually work on it, but SPIKE should definitely go with the anime style).

I hope that Budokai Tenkaichi 3 will actually be worth the full $39.99 MSRP that I will pay for the game later when it is released.

Well, IMO.
Spike is doing what they can, Spike is not that good and not as experienced as for an ex Dimps is.
thats not an excuse to lie however.
Spike need to say something good for once, and actually start working and talking about other stuff then characters.
Like the things you said.
And talking about character, its a bad sales technique using characters, but it would make it a whole lot better if the characters were you unique, and they learned that a transformation isn't a character.

[GreatOX1223]

Well i can't say if dimps lied cause i didn't know about the Atari boards untill this year. Spike is only using the 161 forms because each character has a different moveset each time they transform. Dimps didn't count the forms because there were no changes in the moveset if you transformed apart from your finisher becoming available and goku's 10x Kamehameha and Vegeta's Final shine

[Three eyes]

I would not count them as separate characters really. They are part of the character just like any other form. But I would perhaps include the word "giants" when describing the type of characters being in the game.

Then we might get back to Devil Jin again. Great Ape has more differences with Vegeta(scouter) than Devil Jin has with Jin but nobody is saying that Devil Jin shouldn`t be called a character. Don`t forget that at this moment we are assuming that Great Ape Vegeta is only transformation or if you want only transformation to Ape.

Now where did you get that number from? I do not think you will ever be able to calculate such a thing. It does of course also vary from country to country. But I can guarantee you that not many companies would be comfortable with having negative criticism hanging around them all the time. So most markets achieve their goals through "clean" commercials. Sure they are to attract people to buy things they don't really need, but the products are not all out false. Hype is btw used often to attract attention from the audience through previews, pictures, videos and cold facts. Statements with no rot in reality is something very different.

First thing, every bigger company has negative criticism, even Blizzard is receiving negative criticism all the time, or do you think that Blizzard are crappy game developers?

http://www.google.lt/search?hl=lt&defl=en&q=define:HYPE&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title
Spike are not liars, they are hypeing their product like most deveelopers are doing. Tell which statment has no rot in reality? Gameplay hours? Well there was 15 hours of story mode so there is rot. Characters? All transformations and forms are presented in game like sperate characters, so again there is rot.


So why do you think that they make subcategories for transformations then? Simply because of that they are part of the character. Or else it wouldn't be possible to have such a system at all.

i just explained that character select menu with 160 character would be not efficient.

Main point here is that all transformations and forms are presented like seperate characters in the game so they are not lying because their game has 160 selectable characters. Are most of those characters crap? Definetely. They have same(or very similar) move sets? Absolutely. Most of them has same gameplay? Yes. Some of them look same with a bit different colors? Yes. Still they are presented as seperate characters so Spike aren`t lying in their advertisiments. They could say "Over 150 crappy characters", they still wouldn`t be liars, yet there is no use in saying that they are crappy.

What?:eek: I've agreed with everything you've ever said until that. Spike does NOT capture the power of dbz. The best thing, the only thing, good about tenkaichi is the fact that it's 3D.

Don`t tell me that B3 captured power of dbz with juggles :confused:

[Da_Black_Goku]

DIMPS WAS OK,but i prefer SPIKES engine because it made us experience dbz n feel like we fighting in the show more/way better

[Kazuha Vinland]

Then we might get back to Devil Jin again. Great Ape has more differences with Vegeta(scouter) than Devil Jin has with Jin but nobody is saying that Devil Jin shouldn`t be called a character. Don`t forget that at this moment we are assuming that Great Ape Vegeta is only transformation or if you want only transformation to Ape.
Well, how many characters in Tekken got transformations? Jin... That game is not heavily based on a large character roster with countless of transformations. The characters are not able to change like in DBZ. They stay how they are. So if 1 character is counted as separate because of him being an evil version, then so what? It is on a completely other scale you are comparing it to.

First thing, every bigger company has negative criticism, even Blizzard is receiving negative criticism all the time, or do you think that Blizzard are crappy game developers?Blizzard were good with the original Warcraft games, but WoW is a bunch of crap. When it comes to such big money, then yes. Some developers do intend to play dirty. But 90% of them? I think not:haha:

http://www.google.lt/search?hl=lt&defl=en&q=define:HYPE&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title
Spike are not liars, they are hypeing their product like most deveelopers are doing. Tell which statment has no rot in reality? Gameplay hours? Well there was 15 hours of story mode so there is rot. Characters? All transformations and forms are presented in game like sperate characters, so again there is rot. Learn your math, kid:noob: 15 hours is not equal to 60 hours in any way. So that statement does not have any rot in reality, as it would never happen. The definition of characters do not include forms, which means that they shouldn't be able to present the forms as characters, unless they were trying to give out false information.

i just explained that character select menu with 160 character would be not efficient. That it is efficient is cool enough, but that doesn't hide the fact that it is the forms that are made into sub categories. A form is a part of an already existing character. Simple as that. End of story.

Main point here is that all transformations and forms are presented like seperate characters in the game so they are not lying because their game has 160 selectable characters. Are most of those characters crap? Definetely. They have same(or very similar) move sets? Absolutely. Most of them has same gameplay? Yes. Some of them look same with a bit different colors? Yes. Still they are presented as seperate characters so Spike aren`t lying in their advertisiments. They could say "Over 150 crappy characters", they still wouldn`t be liars, yet there is no use in saying that they are crappy.
They are indeed lying. There is about 90 selectable characters, 161 forms in total. Spike can tell you anything, but does that make it true? No. They do simply use the wrong term for characters. It is Spike that SHOULD had presented them like 90 characters.

Don`t tell me that B3 captured power of dbz with juggles :confused:This video is a bit out of sync, but I think you will get the definition of power after watching it...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMUkjcI1s3M (http://youtube.com/watch?v=ynebqL9_gqg)

[Le Passant]

This video is a bit out of sync, but I think you will get the definition of power after watching it...
At a certain period, I would have been agree. But I tried to replay to B3, and I honestly can't take pleasure. Even if, in a certain measure, I prefer Budokai's ultimate. But I think all the war between Budokai's fans and Tenkaichi's fans is a bit...stupid ? No, not a bit. Perfectly stupid.

[Kazuha Vinland]

Stupidity is never perfect. I do still play both Tenkaichi 2 and Budokai 3. I prefer Budokai 3 because of the fluid movements though.

[The Solution]

Spike > > > > > Dimps in making the games more DBZish. Dimps > > > > > Spike in making a good game :haha:

[Three eyes]

Here we go again...

Well, how many characters in Tekken got transformations? Jin... That game is not heavily based on a large character roster with countless of transformations. The characters are not able to change like in DBZ. They stay how they are. So if 1 character is counted as separate because of him being an evil version, then so what? It is on a completely other scale you are comparing it to.

Read my whole post, not only parts of it. You forgot that i was asking you about Great Ape if there was only one of them in whole damn game? So your comment about Tekken having only few transformations isn`t valid at such situation because at that situation Great Ape would be as unique as Devil Jin is.

Blizzard were good with the original Warcraft games, but WoW is a bunch of crap. When it comes to such big money, then yes. Some developers do intend to play dirty. But 90% of them? I think not:haha:I wonder, are you that naive or are you just pretending? Every bigger company receives negative criticizm, if you don`t see that then you probably aren`t looking.
Learn your math, kid:noob: 15 hours is not equal to 60 hours in any way. So that statement does not have any rot in reality, as it would never happen. And thats called hype. Was there decent number of storymode hours? Yes. They just hyped it much more than it was.
The definition of characters do not include forms, which means that they shouldn't be able to present the forms as characters, unless they were trying to give out false information. And where you found that definition?
That it is efficient is cool enough, but that doesn't hide the fact that it is the forms that are made into sub categories. A form is a part of an already existing character. Simple as that. End of story.So my argument stands, they are in character select menu(in sub-menu to make menu more efficient) and are selectable before fight- thats what them makes selectable characters- presentation.

They are indeed lying. There is about 90 selectable characters, 161 forms in total. Spike can tell you anything, but does that make it true? No. They do simply use the wrong term for characters. It is Spike that SHOULD had presented them like 90 characters.But they presented them like 160 chracters in game so whats wrong with calling them that? I don`t really understand why we are arguing, we both agree that they are bland copies of each other, we agree that they should be improved. Only thing is calling them characters. Are they playing dirty? Yes, are they lying? No, because these crappy forms are represented like seperate characters in game. Like multiple forms of Vegeta, same character, i would like if they merged some of them but no, they are keeping them seperate because they could call them characters for marketing reasons.

This video is a bit out of sync, but I think you will get the definition of power after watching it...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMUkjcI1s3M (http://youtube.com/watch?v=ynebqL9_gqg)Yes i get power after that but do you get power after watching "juggles" in B3? Imho "juggles" completely contradict everything about DBZ while BT2 had nothing like that.

[Kazuha Vinland]

Read my whole post, not only parts of it. You forgot that i was asking you about Great Ape if there was only one of them in whole damn game? So your comment about Tekken having only few transformations isn`t valid at such situation because at that situation Great Ape would be as unique as Devil Jin is.
I answered that question in my reply before that. Oozaru is just another transformation. The size does not really matter. So even though it is just as different as Jin good/evil, it still isn't the same. Tekken is not based upon a huge character roster with countless of transformations. Therefore it is natural that Devil Jin is not a transformation, but a separate character.

I wonder, are you that naive or are you just pretending? Every bigger company receives negative criticizm, if you don`t see that then you probably aren`t looking.
No, there are not many gaming companies that stands forth and says "we are now going to have a duel mode in the game!" and then it is just part of the practice mode. It doesn't work like that. They can play with words and make it sound really good, but they won't lie about the features added to the game.

And thats called hype. Was there decent number of storymode hours? Yes. They just hyped it much more than it was.
And where you found that definition?
60 hours is a totally unrealistic estimate, when the average player completes it in 15 hours. You got to realize that, okay?;) It is not normal to present transformations and other forms as characters in the game. You do not need to know anything more than that. The word "character" does not cover forms as well. Forms are in other words not separate characters. They are part of the characters. And when you're part of a character, then you're not a separate character. That's simple, undeniable logic.

So my argument stands, they are in character select menu(in sub-menu to make menu more efficient) and are selectable before fight- thats what them makes selectable characters- presentation.
It doesn't matter how they designed the character select menu. If they truly had considered transformations as characters, then they should be just as worthy to line up aside with the base from of the character. Something they are not. I repeat, they are part of the characters, not new characters.

But they presented them like 160 chracters in game so whats wrong with calling them that? I don`t really understand why we are arguing, we both agree that they are bland copies of each other, we agree that they should be improved. Only thing is calling them characters. Are they playing dirty? Yes, are they lying? No, because these crappy forms are represented like seperate characters in game. Like multiple forms of Vegeta, same character, i would like if they merged some of them but no, they are keeping them seperate because they could call them characters for marketing reasons.
They should not be allowed to present the forms as characters. That is exactly the issue we are talking about. They can call it whatever they want to, but the fact remains the same. There are 90 characters in Tenkaichi 3! So that statement their using is irrelevant, also popularly known as a lie. The Vegetas in the game brings me back at the character selection. If they really should had made it that efficient, then why wouldn't they just put all the Vegetas under one single slot? The answer is because of that they are actually new characters. So yes, you count all the Vegetas as several characters. No, you do not count forms as characters. That is an invalid term to use. You simply cannot do it. If you do, then you lie.

Yes i get power after that but do you get power after watching "juggles" in B3? Imho "juggles" completely contradict everything about DBZ while BT2 had nothing like that.
The stiff movements and sever lack of facial expressions contradict DBZ more than that.

[Coolerthancool6]

In my opinion, Spike and Dimps shoul team up to build a game!
It would be great :D

[Kazuha Vinland]

No, Spike would only hold Dimps down. Seriously, Dimps is a very experienced developing company. Spike is new and inexperienced. You cannot expect them to keep up the same tempo as Dimps are known for.

[B_Wallace]

No, Spike would only hold Dimps down. Seriously, Dimps is a very experienced developing company. Spike is new and inexperienced. You cannot expect them to keep up the same tempo as Dimps are known for.
http://www.gamefaqs.com/features/company/73167.html
I just see crap games in this list