Versus Thread: Avatar state Aang vs. Goku (Non Super Saiyan)

[Timothy2035]

Many of you have watched Aang in Avatar: The Last Airbender. We just see him learning all the ropes to reaching the peak of his power. Well there were some showings of his Avatar state. The Avatar is an awesome being. What if Aang fought Goku? Goku not in super saiyan form, but more like when he fought Vegetta and Nappa in the Saiyan Saga.

Who comes out on top?

I am going to go with Avatar Aang.

[Gogeto]

goku all the way

[Gogetonks SSJ]

goku :)

[woudarules]

goku

[holy_jumbo]

We're talking about Goku, right before he gets ssj and without Kaioken, rigth?

[Timothy2035]

We're talking about Goku, right before he gets ssj and without Kaioken, rigth?

yes :)

[blackman34]

Many of you have watched Aang in Avatar: The Last Airbender. We just see him learning all the ropes to reaching the peak of his power. Well there were some showings of his Avatar state. The Avatar is an awesome being. What if Aang fought Goku? Goku not in super saiyan form, but more like when he fought Vegetta and Nappa in the Saiyan Saga.

Who comes out on top?

I am going to go with Avatar Aang.

you need to be modd'd again :bored:

[Mystic Gohan]

I don't know really. Aang with the one of the Moon Spirits was enough to take out an entire army with little trouble. But you have to be mindful which Goku we are talking about here. Goku in the 10th Anniversary movie what Aang did in a single move, and he was a year younger than he was at the time. If your going by the original TV aired anime...Goku was able to counter and repel a attack that was going to destroy the Earth, using Yonbei Kaioken. Without it he would have lost but we haven't seen Aang use anything remotely close to that kind of power. Not yet anyway.(yeah I still think he is going to use Avatar State despite what happened) Kyoshi kind of did when she separated the the continent but Roku couldn't even stop a erupting volcano, something Goku could do when he was 15. So what hope does Aang have if thats anything to go off of.

[holy_jumbo]

I have to agree with MG, besides Goku is much faster than Aang, he could evade all attacks and then defeat Aang with a punch.

[Vishkugeta]

Like holy_jumbo, I agree with MG.

[Timothy2035]

I don't know really. Aang with the one of the Moon Spirits was enough to take out an entire army with little trouble. But you have to be mindful which Goku we are talking about here. Goku in the 10th Anniversary movie what Aang did in a single move, and he was a year younger than he was at the time. If your going by the original TV aired anime...Goku was able to counter and repel a attack that was going to destroy the Earth, using Yonbei Kaioken. Without it he would have lost but we haven't seen Aang use anything remotely close to that kind of power. Not yet anyway.(yeah I still think he is going to use Avatar State despite what happened) Kyoshi kind of did when she separated the the continent but Roku couldn't even stop a erupting volcano, something Goku could do when he was 15. So what hope does Aang have if thats anything to go off of.

I have to agree with MG, besides Goku is much faster than Aang, he could evade all attacks and then defeat Aang with a punch.

Who knows...being an airbender supreme as his first power, plus in the dark astral plane skin Avatar state will allow him to move like the wind.

Pikkon when facing a much more advanced stage Goku used an attack that was like a tornado. Truly, if you bend something like air, then you have something that can yield trenendous pressure.

[gokusaiyan44]

It dosent matter what form goku would win.

[Mystic Gohan]

Who knows...being an airbender supreme as his first power, plus in the dark astral plane skin Avatar state will allow him to move like the wind.

Pikkon when facing a much more advanced stage Goku used an attack that was like a tornado. Truly, if you bend something like air, then you have something that can yield trenendous pressure.

Are you trying to say Aang can generate enough force to be compared to the likes of Pikuhan? Thats a bit of a stretch don't you think?

[ultimateGoHaN99]

Oh yeah forgot about kaoken

[holy_jumbo]

It dosent matter what form goku would win.
When Goku was a kid he would be raped by Aang.

[ultimateGoHaN99]

When Goku was a kid he would be raped by Aang.
unless he went ape

[holy_jumbo]

Oozaru Kid Goku vs Aang in avatar state... Now that would be a great battle.

[Mystic Gohan]

When Goku was a kid he would be raped by Aang.

Now that I strongly agree with. Sure Goku probably might have been physically strong than Aang at 11 but Aang had much more skill. The fact Goku almost lost his life to the likes of Toa Pai Pai is living proof of that. If I were to play Aang(normal) at a place in Dragon Ball from what I've seen from all three seasons Aang can match or even defeat Tenshinhan in terms skill. Wehn comparing against Aang in the Avatar State? Its like trying to fight an Oozaru without a tail...it just can't be done. Are there attacks that can kill him in that form? Sure, a well-placed, max powered Kamehameha from Kame Sen'nin or a Kikoho from Tenshihan would blow him into oblivion but unlike Oozaru his attacks aren't indiscriminate. He knows who he wants to defeat and will do it in little to no time leaving high powered move users like them at a disadvantage because they require quite a bit of time to charge up their attacks.

[Timothy2035]

Are you trying to say Aang can generate enough force to be compared to the likes of Pikuhan? Thats a bit of a stretch don't you think?

that power move was awesome, but seemed mostly wind based. All of Aangs teachings, even to achieve control over the avatar state have been about "control". It can be an awesome power that Aang has if used in the right way. Kioshi moving a portion of the island away didn't require the avatar state. Plus Aang (in avatar state) allows cosmic energy to flow through him for that state of openness. Aang also could probably disable Goku's spirit bomb, as his first spirit bomb took energy from the 3 of the 4 elements.

[ultimateGoHaN99]

true

[Mystic Gohan]

that power move was awesome, but seemed mostly wind based. All of Aangs teachings, even to achieve control over the avatar state have been about "control". It can be an awesome power that Aang has if used in the right way. Kioshi moving a portion of the island away didn't require the avatar state. Plus Aang (in avatar state) allows cosmic energy to flow through him for that state of openness. Aang also could probably disable Goku's spirit bomb, as his first spirit bomb took energy from the 3 of the 4 elements.

Pressure control was Shura's forte, a person Goku fought when he was 15. He utterly lost to his technique and only won through a strange technicality. He came across the same thing later on but merely counters it by raising his Ki. So whether or not it would have any affect on Goku depends on Aangs Ki(Chakra..or Chuckra as its pronounced in the series) level. Otherwise Goku would have little trouble breaking through.

[holy_jumbo]

that power move was awesome, but seemed mostly wind based. All of Aangs teachings, even to achieve control over the avatar state have been about "control". It can be an awesome power that Aang has if used in the right way. Kioshi moving a portion of the island away didn't require the avatar state. Plus Aang (in avatar state) allows cosmic energy to flow through him for that state of openness. Aang also could probably disable Goku's spirit bomb, as his first spirit bomb took energy from the 3 of the 4 elements.
Kioshi was also a "complete" avatar, that had mastered the elements years before. Her power would be really close to the avatar state if not the same.

[Mystic Gohan]

Kioshi was also a "complete" avatar, that had mastered the elements years before. Her power would be really close to the avatar state if not the same.

That brings us to another point. Wasn't it stated that when in the Avatar State should they have all the power of all the previous Avatars? If so Aang has a pretty huge pool of energy he can draw from, not to mention the cosmic energy. It makes him sound pretty strong but unfortunately it seems character modesty is in these days. Directors don't feel like making their characters seem omnipotent. Its a crime I tell you.

[gokusaiyan44]

No comparison.

[ragnarok]

i'm in book 3.
Aang is learning the fire control ( I just translate it, don't know if in the english version is different).
however, why would goku fight against Aang?????
this is important guys!
that fight is not possible because both are nice people, so we don't know the answer.

in any case, goku will be the winner.

[ultimateGoHaN99]

Yeah both are nice but goku loves a challenge

[holy_jumbo]

That brings us to another point. Wasn't it stated that when in the Avatar State should they have all the power of all the previous Avatars? If so Aang has a pretty huge pool of energy he can draw from, not to mention the cosmic energy. It makes him sound pretty strong but unfortunately it seems character modesty is in these days. Directors don't feel like making their characters seem omnipotent. Its a crime I tell you.
It's not the power, it's the knowledge. It means that Aang can do all the things that the previus avatars did. If it was the power Earth wouldn't be able to survive the Avatar state.

[gokusaiyan44]

He could only stay in it for like 10 seconds lol.

[Uchiha Goku]

goku's movment speed was near the speed of light as a kid... plus all that endurance he has... and tao was one of the strongest fighters on earth.. stronger than roshi. and come on... Kamehameha lol

[Mystic Gohan]

It's not the power, it's the knowledge. It means that Aang can do all the things that the previus avatars did. If it was the power Earth wouldn't be able to survive the Avatar state.

I watched the episode. Its the combined power, knowledge and skill.

[Hisashi-Kun]

goku's movment speed was near the speed of light as a kid... plus all that endurance he has... and tao was one of the strongest fighters on earth.. stronger than roshi. and come on... Kamehameha lol

We got ourselves a real live fanboy people!

Anyways, Goku as a child really couldn't stand a chance against Aang due to the fact that he couldn't beat Master Roshi, and almost lost his life to Tao.

He almost lost to Tien as well. Yamcha couldn't even beat Tien for god sakes.

Now, if you're saying before He fought Nappa and Vegeta without using Kaioken. He may have a chance. Since Aaang has the power of Air, he can increase his speed as fast as he wants to. So they'd probably be matched in speed.

If Goku ever used Kaioken X2 the match would've been over.

Now in terms of power, realisticly..Aang would have to go into the Avatar State to even stand a chance of landing a good hit on Goku.

I swear Goku can take punishment more than anybody in the show. Having you're legs completely crushed by Oozaru feet ain't pretty.

Now since they both have friends to help them out. (I know it's not part of the topic but it's a possibility.) Sokka, isn't really that strong at all. He can fight, but he's nowhere near stronger than Piccolo.

Now as for Katara and Krillin all Krillin would have to do is use his speed since Katara really isn't that fast. Unless she decided to blood bend of course. If she didn't it'd be up to Toph. Which I must say would probably pwn Krillin then try and date him. :P
So it would be a great match but Goku would end up winning in the end.

[Mystic Gohan]

Aang can move fast, but not that fast. Chances are since Roku met hit end to something Roshi could blow up then thats a testiment to Goku's strength at age 15. Aged 12 he would be on par with Aang after drinking the super holy water. Other wise outside of Goku's crazy strength he would only have his instincts to fight on since he really wasn't trained until Roshi.

[SS5 Trowa]

This is a really good thread.By the way nice versus,it breaks apart from goku vs naruto.

Oh and Goku would win.

[ss5]

I know this is an old thread but I just watched "sozins comet" a few weeks ago and with that power anng might just stand a chance in beating Goku before the fight with vegeta. Especially since Anng was actually holding back on the firelord when he was in the avatar state. Anng could have crushed the firelord with all those rocks in the place they were fighting and with sozins comet his fire bending should have also been increased. He could also easily beat kid Goku.:)

[spiritmight]

Are we serious? Goku would turn Aang's face into jelly before he could even react. Hell, Goku from the 23rd would easily make short work of Aang.

[Mystic Gohan]

Not when Aang is in Avatar State he can't. He was still a novice at Bukujutsu, if anything the normally applied for Dragon Ball character strategy of flying above the ring and destroying it would leave Goku with the short stick.

[spiritmight]

Goku Blitzes Aang and hits him with about 40 brick wall shattering punches before he can even react. Aang can haul ass but is nowhere as fast as Goku after Roshi's training.... And Goku has jumped miles into the air so I don't see flying being a big deal for him.

[Mystic Gohan]

Goku can't change direction in mid air unless he propels himself with a Kamehameha. He can't maintain Bukujutsu for a long time, can only use Kamehameha a few times, and Aang it pretty quick himself actually. The first season confirms this with him being able to run quickly on land and water. Sure he can't teleport but that won't be the difference between victory and defeat.

[spiritmight]

Goku still knocks his head off before aang even blinks. Do you not understand how fast and strong goku is in mid DB? He dodges bullets.... he runs/swims across the world... at age 15 he defeats king piccolo, who nukes cities easily. Goku in the vegeta saga is just overkill...

[Mystic Gohan]

Relatively speaking with Sozin's Comet the Firelord could have done the same with time. Goku could have beaten Kame Sen'nin out rigth and he could destroy the Moon, but then again so could Tenshihan. Goku is fast yes but getting from point A to point B isn't as lighting fast as you are implying. We didn't see references of it until after returning from Kaio's training. During the Raditz fight Goku was easy pickings despite his fight with Piccolo. I like to use the race scene as reference. It took Kame Sen'nin 2.7 seconds to run the 100 meters but in the anime it was 1 half second frame. Its deeply exaggerated.

[spiritmight]

Done the same... with time you say? KP basically waved his arm and poof. The entire city was ashes. If ozai could've done the same he wouldn't have needed all those airships with firebenders perched on them. Remember what kid goku did to drum? (Rush in and kick his eyeball out of his head) 23rd and ESPECIALLY vegeta saga goku would easily do the same. And remember what junior did at the 23? In desperation charge all of his ki and let it out, effectivley destroying that entire island? How did goku get out of that one? By clenching his muscles and standing his ground. He didn't move from that one spot. Aang throwing giant fireballs, torrents of water, boulders, or air currents at any goku at that level or above would do nothing at all. I won't bother defending vegeta saga goku because that outcome is insanley obvious. I mean, using kaioken, he easily dispatched of nappa ( who nuked a large section of the world with 2 fingers and took a full on kikoho, only to show some scratches.) Aang is one of my top 5 cartoon characters but come on, he has no chance.

[Mystic Gohan]

I'm not saying Dragon Ball characters are immensely strong but the reality is despite their ability to do those things its always the underdog that finds some loophole to stop it. Just because Goku stomped King Piccolo doesn't mean he can do half the things he could, yet he beat him. The thing is, judging Goku's ability on the ability of his enemies adds up to one big inconsistency. I think Aang can stand toe to toe with Goku in his Avatar State up until the the Raditz fight. Only having the obvious go in Goku's favor when he fights Nappa and Vegeta. I haven't seen anything that could convince me otherwise.

[spiritmight]

How about the immense vaccum in speed, strength, and durability? Aang without his bending is just some kid, young goku rushing him and removing his head from his shoulders is a very distinct possibility..... I just can't see aang hurting him after going back and looking at what goku has done..... I imagine the fight to be like this: *aang goes into avatar state, things get all scary* *goku's fist immeadiatly creates a large hole in aang's forehead. Battle over* Yes, he is that strong and fast. Goku has braced worse than the four classical elements... Aang can throw all the crap he wants but the only thing I see having a shot at young goku is lightning, which he can't generate anyway. I do agree about the inconsistencies though.

[Mystic Gohan]

Well, your opinion is noted and duly ignored.

[spiritmight]

As is yours ;)

[Timothy2035]

Some good debates going on and I'm glad you like the topic. :):up:

Though after seeing the last few episodes of Avatar, Aang would win for sure.

The reason why I say this is due to the ability to blood bend. I know Aang has never done it, and that Kitara did, but keep in mind Aang is the Avatar. Whatever Kitara can do, Aang can do better. Kitara tried teaching Aang water bending techniques and remember how Aang was doing things much more quickly than Kitara thought he would grasp? Even at the point he mastered something in a moment that took her a long time to do.

Just imagine what Aang could do with blood bending. He could control Goku and make Goku defeat himself by self injury. If Trunks sword was able to kill beings like Frieza and his father king, then DBZers aren't as resistant as they seem to be. With knowledge comes power. Aang just needs the blood bending knowledge. I don't think any DBZer would resist blood bending (or any body fluid bending) technique. If the being is made of stone or fire essence, well game over just doing normal element bending.

Aang can beat Goku. :)

Thoughts?

[spiritmight]

Some good debates going on and I'm glad you like the topic. :):up:

Though after seeing the last few episodes of Avatar, Aang would win for sure.

The reason why I say this is due to the ability to blood bend. I know Aang has never done it, and that Kitara did, but keep in mind Aang is the Avatar. Whatever Kitara can do, Aang can do better. Kitara tried teaching Aang water bending techniques and remember how Aang was doing things much more quickly than Kitara thought he would grasp? Even at the point he mastered something in a moment that took her a long time to do.

Just imagine what Aang could do with blood bending. He could control Goku and make Goku defeat himself by self injury. If Trunks sword was able to kill beings like Frieza and his father king, then DBZers aren't as resistant as they seem to be. With knowledge comes power. Aang just needs the blood bending knowledge. I don't think any DBZer would resist blood bending (or any body fluid bending) technique. If the being is made of stone or fire essence, well game over just doing normal element bending.

Aang can beat Goku. :)

Thoughts?

In versus threads, theories like that (Aang can bloodbend) have no standing, you just made an association fallacy. Katara= waterbender/Katara=Bloodbender does not mean that Aang=bloodbender. If you can show me Aang explicitly bloodbending, I'll take your point into account.



I guess you overlooked the fact that while trunks was able to slice through freeza, when KC tried to cut him he blocked it with his hand, and goku blocked it with his finger. It wasn't the sword buddy, it was the strength behind it :bored:

[kr17]

Goku I'd have to say.

Well Z Fighters in general could...like when Vegito Resisted Buuhan' Self- Implosion move....but i dont think it s the same thing...

[spiritmight]

Maybe is Aang got close enough to Goku to do that mind**** spiritbending thing.....Er, nevermind :haha:

[holy_jumbo]

In versus threads, theories like that (Aang can bloodbend) have no standing, you just made an association fallacy. Katara= waterbender/Katara=Bloodbender does not mean that Aang=bloodbender. If you can show me Aang explicitly bloodbending, I'll take your point into account.



I guess you overlooked the fact that while trunks was able to slice through freeza, when KC tried to cut him he blocked it with his hand, and goku blocked it with his finger. It wasn't the sword buddy, it was the strength behind it :bored:He's in avatar state, he can do anything other benders can do.

[Timothy2035]

In versus threads, theories like that (Aang can bloodbend) have no standing, you just made an association fallacy. Katara= waterbender/Katara=Bloodbender does not mean that Aang=bloodbender. If you can show me Aang explicitly bloodbending, I'll take your point into account.



I guess you overlooked the fact that while trunks was able to slice through freeza, when KC tried to cut him he blocked it with his hand, and goku blocked it with his finger. It wasn't the sword buddy, it was the strength behind it :bored:
What if Aang discovers it in a moment of consultation with a past Avatar? There are various ways to find out. What if he applied the removal technique he did on the Fire Lord that removed his bending? If Aang puts his mind to it, he could devastate tremendously. Like I was saying, Aang using blood bending could make Goku severely injure himself.
Maybe is Aang got close enough to Goku to do that mind**** spiritbending thing.....Er, nevermind :haha:

Thing is...the element benders may not give off power readings like what those in DBZ have been showing. What if they register as regular humans?

[spiritmight]

Thing is...the element benders may not give off power readings like what those in DBZ have been showing. What if they register as regular humans?

They do. There is nothing to prove that without bending, benders are any different from you and me.So one hit from Goku=Death.

[Tomiwa11]

hmm though i gota admit goku is insanely fast - aang isnt as pathetic as people make him out to be...ok hes not fast enough to teleport or become pretty much invisible like goku did against krillin back in dragonball - but he can take a few power hits - he was smashed through walls and stuff in the fight of ba sing se and recovered quickly even outside of the avatar state - also rocks have always hurt goku (wen fighters get punched through them and stuff) so mass earthbenders should hurt him - also firebending will damage goku too so hes still (almost) human - and waterbending...technically aang should be able to cut his head off with waterbending while in the avatar state

soo i think aang could win - simply because goku is still suspect to regular stuff like ice and fire despite being so physically powerful - aang could jus fly rely fly and launch attacks at him anyway (if we are talkin bout kid goku whoc cant fly)

[spiritmight]

hmm though i gota admit goku is insanely fast - aang isnt as pathetic as people make him out to be...ok hes not fast enough to teleport or become pretty much invisible like goku did against krillin back in dragonball - but he can take a few power hits - he was smashed through walls and stuff in the fight of ba sing se and recovered quickly even outside of the avatar state - also rocks have always hurt goku (wen fighters get punched through them and stuff) so mass earthbenders should hurt him - also firebending will damage goku too so hes still (almost) human - and waterbending...technically aang should be able to cut his head off with waterbending while in the avatar state

soo i think aang could win - simply because goku is still suspect to regular stuff like ice and fire despite being so physically powerful - aang could jus fly rely fly and launch attacks at him anyway (if we are talkin bout kid goku whoc cant fly)


Er...When?
Aang might whallop kid goku...but only if this was before is training with roshi.

[Tomiwa11]

yes - watch da fight at ba sing se agen - aang did get smashed through rocks by azulas attack and recover and come back
den he got attackd by the dai li - skidded making a kinda crator in the ground and recovered agen
and i jus prety much sed dat aang could beat goku as a kid after he trained with roshi...

[Mystic Gohan]

Some good debates going on and I'm glad you like the topic. :):up:

Though after seeing the last few episodes of Avatar, Aang would win for sure.

The reason why I say this is due to the ability to blood bend. I know Aang has never done it, and that Kitara did, but keep in mind Aang is the Avatar. Whatever Kitara can do, Aang can do better. Kitara tried teaching Aang water bending techniques and remember how Aang was doing things much more quickly than Kitara thought he would grasp? Even at the point he mastered something in a moment that took her a long time to do.

Just imagine what Aang could do with blood bending. He could control Goku and make Goku defeat himself by self injury. If Trunks sword was able to kill beings like Frieza and his father king, then DBZers aren't as resistant as they seem to be. With knowledge comes power. Aang just needs the blood bending knowledge. I don't think any DBZer would resist blood bending (or any body fluid bending) technique. If the being is made of stone or fire essence, well game over just doing normal element bending.

Aang can beat Goku. :)

Thoughts?

Sorry but judging on things we've seen them do I think make the assumption that Aang could blood bend would be sort of a stretch. Not only is it outside of Aang's character to even attempt it, it would also imply that he knows how to do it. That old witch basically told Katara how to do it. Sure the concept looks easy but it probably goes into the realm of metal bending, something only the most advance can do. Aang may not consider getting better at it just for the sake of it. After he mastered water he may have stopped there. He's not the training bum, like Chi-chi says Goku is.

In versus threads, theories like that (Aang can bloodbend) have no standing, you just made an association fallacy. Katara= waterbender/Katara=Bloodbender does not mean that Aang=bloodbender. If you can show me Aang explicitly bloodbending, I'll take your point into account.



I guess you overlooked the fact that while trunks was able to slice through freeza, when KC tried to cut him he blocked it with his hand, and goku blocked it with his finger. It wasn't the sword buddy, it was the strength behind it :bored:

In versus threads, hypothetical descriptions of how you think the battle will go have no standing.

Personally I take three things into consideration.

Character
Ability
Unknown

Thats why I have the spirit of indecisiveness. Stating "blah blah blah" would win is a form a favoritism. Suggesting "blah blah blah" could stand a chance is diplomacy.

[spiritmight]

Are versus threads allowed in here? I might start one.

[dbzkid12345]

:cool: goku would simpley just punch threw the avatar :mad:

[mbgumby28]

Who's Goku?

[gdf]

jeez, too many good points. my brain hurts. i can't decide

[Mello]

definitely Goku:)

[RemedyX]

Avatar Aang...