Congrats To Obama

[Lewynator]

WAY TO GO!! :)

[Deer Destroyer]

+1 :up:

[Kkrogslund]

European congrats :up:

[Oneshotchris]

:down: Yep 4 years of hell coming.

[JupiterJoe]

Atari should develop a game where you can hunt ignorant white supremacists from Texas :bulb:

[Deer Destroyer]

Atari should develop a game where you can hunt ignorant white supremacists from Texas :bulb:

Haha! :haha:

[SmokenStien]

Also a big congrats from Canada!!!!
Believe it or not we have followed the presidental election with great interest and the best MAN did win!!!

[Oneshotchris]

Atari should develop a game where you can hunt ignorant white supremacists from Texas :bulb:

yep that would be funny, and while we are at it we could get people from other countries that are not part of our elections to stay out of it. :D

Just because I voted for a person that has experience over a guy that is wanting to change our flag, national Anthem along with a ton of other stuff does not mean that I hate Black people.. That is pretty "Ignorant" as you say it. See, this point exactly is what is going to cause these wars. Everything already has become a race issue. Nothing was EVER said by me about him being black. Hell the guy is half white and half black, so if I was racist I could only hate half of him! LOL

Seriously, just drop it, as you are probably one of those that looks at everything from a far and thinks that it is all President Bush's fault. It is sad but people do not even know our own gov structure to know that the President does not have the power to make all the things go wrong that have. In fact if you want to point fingers, a majority of this stuff started in the Clinton years. This is just carry over.

I will end it there, but please do not even start calling me a racist, I do not like the man, but it is not because of his skin color it is because he wants the United States to be a socialist country.

[Deer Destroyer]

Just because I voted for a person that has experience over a guy that is wanting to change our flag, national Anthem along with a ton of other stuff does not mean that I hate Black people...

Are you sure you are from the United States of America? Because you don't seem to know nothing about this issue what so ever, the only person ignorant here is you.

And just because I'm not an american, doesn't mean I don't have a valid opinion.

And what on earth is wrong with socialsm? Are you a Misanthrope of some sort?

[Dadfish]

Well, JupiterJoe DID call him a white supremacist even before socialism was even mentioned, and you seemed to think that was hilarious. So that seems to tell me that there is racial opinion there, and that is sad.

Nothing was mentioned in his(OneshotChris) post about the color of the mans' skin, yet some of you decided to turn it into a race issue.

[Deer Destroyer]

Well, JupiterJoe DID call him a white supremacist even before socialism was even mentioned, and you seemed to think that was hilarious.

Of course it was hilarious! :D

[Dadfish]

And what made that hurtful comment hilarious to you?

Do you think it is funny what humans did to each other in the past? Is it funny to burn a cross on a family's doorstep, to hang a person based on his skin color alone, or to put living people into an oven based solely on their religion?

[SmokenStien]

Can't see this thread lasting long, I'm unsubscribing to this one!!!:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Deer Destroyer]

And what made that hurtful comment hilarious to you?

Do you think it is funny what humans did to each other in the past? Is it funny to burn a cross on a family's doorstep, to hang a person based on his skin color alone, or to put living people into an oven based solely on their religion?

Hurtful comment? I sure would like to know why it was so hurtful? I don't sympathize with white supremacists? I actually liked the idea of making a game were you could shoot the **** out of them. The same things you mentioned are still being done if not against black minorities in America these problems occur all over the world. I have witnessed it first hand, when I was a child I was forced to flee for my life, because I belonged to an ethnic and religious minority. I don't know if ex Yugoslavia says anything to you, but I know how it feels. So stop making accusations of me being a racist or anything just because I look at white supremacists with scorn.

[Dadfish]

When you think it's funny when someone else make a racial comment, what was I supposed to think?

[Deer Destroyer]

I didn't see it as an racial comment? More of a critical statement, but let's not dwell on this issue anymore.

[Dadfish]

Ok..I'm past it....

:)

[Oneshotchris]

Last comment on here because it is pretty pointless, but think about what you just said. I have no problems with people from other races, some of my best friends are black, some other races, that is not a problem with me. IT IS a problem however when we are called white supremacists with absolutely nothing said about race. This is the reason it is going to be a long 4 years. You proved my point without even knowing it. You brought up race with no mention of it from me, just accused me of it because I did not like him. It is not because of his skin color. That said, have fun.

[XyClone]

:up: Not only for Obama, but for the US and the rest of the world

:down: Yep 4 years of hell coming.

8 Years of hell ending!
And 8 years is comming, cleaning up the mess left behind by the Bush administration!

[kingmaximus]

You know what cracks me up? The same people who've been defending President Bush and continue to do so always go to the "one man doesn't have that kind of power" statement in one form or another while describing the problems we now have. He's not responsible for the mortgage mess, unempolyment, gas prices, etc.

HOWEVER, they seem to think now that Obama will be in the White House, we can expect him to "change our flag" or "take away our guns" or any number of other things that are FAR out of reach of any one man, let alone unconstitutional.

It works both ways people. Listen to yourselves and grab a little dose of reality. When you make irresponsible and untrue statements about a man it cheapens your real view. Dislike him for being a Democrat, a liberal, for being pro-life and yes, for that matter, being half black, at least those are all true. But don't subject us all to irrational or impossible futures that have been dreamed up by hate mongering idiots. We're all better than that.

We don't have to like it, but it's all we have, and no one man will change that.

[Dreadnaught]

And what on earth is wrong with socialsm?

Plenty is wrong with socialism. :bulb:

Hurtful comment? I sure would like to know why it was so hurtful? I don't sympathize with white supremacists? I actually liked the idea of making a game were you could shoot the **** out of them. The same things you mentioned are still being done if not against black minorities in America these problems occur all over the world. I have witnessed it first hand, when I was a child I was forced to flee for my life, because I belonged to an ethnic and religious minority. I don't know if ex Yugoslavia says anything to you, but I know how it feels. So stop making accusations of me being a racist or anything just because I look at white supremacists with scorn.


With all due respect, what happened in the former Yugoslavia in the 1990s is not at all comparable to the US in the 1990s. The history of Yugoslavia and Obama's rise to power have nothing to do with each other. Characterizing anyone who voted for McCain (or against Obama) as white supremacists is fairly extreme.

[dmb3428]

Are you sure you are from the United States of America? Because you don't seem to know nothing about this issue what so ever, the only person ignorant here is you.

And just because I'm not an american, doesn't mean I don't have a valid opinion.

And what on earth is wrong with socialsm? Are you a Misanthrope of some sort?

This country became great due to people having a dream of a better life and wanting to work hard to earn it. Not work hard and have the government take it away from you and distribute to some lazy bum. If socialism is the answer people would be leaving this country by the thousands. But guess what, there are lines of people wanting to get in!

[Oneshotchris]

LOL yep, I will quit my job and hang around with the other bums and get free money. why not. I can make it and give to others, or hang out and get it free. Remember, I am a white supremacists! :D

[Apple Creek]

Are you sure you are from the United States of America? Because you don't seem to know nothing about this issue what so ever, the only person ignorant here is you.

And just because I'm not an american, doesn't mean I don't have a valid opinion.

And what on earth is wrong with socialsm? Are you a Misanthrope of some sort?it is because your not american you know very little about our country, stay in your country while your neighbors are friendly on your block, as to oneshotchris i think its about time i need to sell my house in the usa before something bad happens.

[Deer Destroyer]

Well I don't know... I am studying Philosophy and I have read hundreds of books regarding this "little" issue, I always tend to keep my subjectivity to myself, the notion that Socialism is bad is a product of capitalistic ideology trying to defend itself against anything that would rival it. But believe me when I say that the land of opportunity is a farfetched fairytale. I guess I only need to point out the millions of people who are living on the streets because of poverty and the laughable healthcare system, Socialism is the best human, ethical and morally superior Philosophy and political system imaginable, and no its not Communism, there would be free trade whatever the ideology, the notion of a government controlling every aspect of the capital cannot exist anymore. Obama will not drastically change the country, but it might point it towards a better direction.

[Dreadnaught]

And the notion that socialism is the "best human, ethical and morally superior Philosophy and political system imaginable" is just socialist ideology defending itself against the fact that it's a failed ideology that abrogates human rights and ambitions.

The homeless population of the United States is estimated to be somewhere (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/30/us/30homeless.html) between 120,000 and 170,000, in a nation with a population of 300 million. It's bad, but let's not exaggerate numbers here.

I think it's telling that you refer to socialism as a "political system". It seems you're admitting that socialism requires political coercion to mold the distribution of capital and other resources.

[Deer Destroyer]

Yes, Socialism can only work thoroughly if used in the political environments as well. Capitalism is no different by any means, and I think you should consider your statement that Socialism abrogates human rights, history might not have been in Socialisms favor, due the many dictatorships which used Socialism as a cover up, but ignoring that Capitalism abrogates human rights on a far bigger scale would be ludicrous.

[Apple Creek]

And the notion that socialism is the "best human, ethical and morally superior Philosophy and political system imaginable" is just socialist ideology defending itself against the fact that it's a failed ideology that abrogates human rights and ambitions.

The homeless population of the United States is estimated to be somewhere (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/30/us/30homeless.html) between 120,000 and 170,000, in a nation with a population of 300 million. It's bad, but let's not exaggerate numbers here.

I think it's telling that you refer to socialism as a "political system". It seems you're admitting that socialism requires political coercion to mold the distribution of capital and other resources.dread, you live in new york im sure you can see some of the homeboys out there, i doubt obama could fix the neighborhoods up and the hoods will just keep growing.

[Dreadnaught]

Yes, Socialism can only work thoroughly if used in the political environments as well. Capitalism is no different by any means, and I think you should consider your statement that Socialism abrogates human rights, history might not have been in Socialisms favor, due the many dictatorships which used Socialism as a cover up, but ignoring that Capitalism abrogates human rights on a far bigger scale would be ludicrous.


If the political environment of capitalism is free elections, tolerance for different views and freedom of commerce, then yes, capitalism is also a political system. :weird:

Socialism is about the government imposing itself and micromanaging economic life. That's why it abrogates human rights, unlike capitalism, which has more of a propensity to ignore human rights if people/customers are willing to ignore human rights.

But there is nothing about capitalism that is intrinsically anti-human rights. Capitalism is mostly human nature with a set of rules and standards attached. It's up to the members of a capitalist society to express concern for rights and justice.

My standard here is what system allows people to engage in the widest array of activities without government intervention that don't harm others.

dread, you live in new york im sure you can see some of the homeboys out there, i doubt obama could fix the neighborhoods up and the hoods will just keep growing.

I don't follow what you're saying. :confused:

[Deer Destroyer]

Dreadnaught, I am afraid that you haven't tread deep enough on this to fully understand how Capitalism is bending justice on a massive scale, justice for the individual or for the masses are two separate aspects which are divided by egoism and empathy, capitalism is driven by egoism and the drive to profit no matter the "humanistic" cost. In a capitalistic environment there are covered facts and the statement that we are "free" to do what we want and that the government will stay clear from micromanaging certain aspects of society is totally untrue. Capitalism enforces interest in capital, that states it as beeing top priority, all humanitarian justice is therefore suppressed to a point where it barely even exists When people suffer nothing happens, but when money is an issue the goverment reacts quickly. Look at it this way wouldn't you like it if the government of the United States of America for example took it upon itself to value the interests and well being of its population by enforcing the financial micromanagement of healthcare so that it would be available to anyone without huge costs attached to it? Wouldn't it be more practical if a certain amount of funds would be centered for the purpose of medical treatment and research instead of being halted in favor of those who control which research would give more profit and what wouldn't. You see now that Capitalism is a state of private ownership rather than a "free" concept and is the source of unfair discrimination which is mainly maintained by individuals who are favored by the government.

[Flexible]

The homeless population of the United States is estimated to be somewhere (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/30/us/30homeless.html) between 120,000 and 170,000, in a nation with a population of 300 million. It's bad, but let's not exaggerate numbers here. I think it's telling that you refer to socialism as a "political system". It seems you're admitting that socialism requires political coercion to mold the distribution of capital and other resources.

I beg to differ with you on that one. Chronically homeless people represent a small minority of the total homeless population in this country. Re:

The Department of Housing and Urban Development collects the statistics as part of its Annual Homeless Assessment Report to Congress. Nationally, the total number of homeless people counted on a single night in January — the measure used to count homeless families on the streets and in shelters — dropped to 666,295 in 2007, from 754,147 in 2005.

The report said that 1.6 million people spent time in homeless shelters between Oct. 1, 2006 and Sept. 30, 2007. Seventy percent of those people were individuals; the rest were families with children. About 13 percent of all homeless adults living in shelters were veterans.


That's a realistic assessment.............................nearly 1/3 are families with children.

[Dreadnaught]

Dreadnaught, I am afraid that you haven't tread deep enough on this to fully understand how Capitalism is bending justice on a massive scale, justice for the individual or for the masses are two separate aspects which are divided by egoism and empathy, capitalism is driven by egoism and the drive to profit no matter the "humanistic" cost. In a capitalistic environment there are covered facts and the statement that we are "free" to do what we want and that the government will stay clear from micromanaging certain aspects of society is totally untrue. Capitalism enforces interest in capital, that states it as beeing top priority, all humanitarian justice is therefore suppressed to a point where it barely even exists When people suffer nothing happens, but when money is an issue the goverment reacts quickly.

I'm not following you here. It sounds like your trying to argue that personal ambition and innovation is actually "egotism". I'm not convinced, nor am I convinced that states are enforcing an interest in being part of a money-based economic system.

Money is just an expression (or a tool) of our natural desire to trade goods. Trade, exchange, diversity, these are all good things. Unless you see some particular value to living some sort of medieval subsistence economy. In which case you may want to consider getting rid of that computer and those clothes. :confused:

But this goes back to what I said in my earlier post: Capitalism is mostly human nature with a set of rules and standards attached. When you try and curtail it, you end up with black markets, as we've seen in states where open-ended commerce is restricted.

Look at it this way wouldn't you like it if the government of the United States of America for example took it upon itself to value the interests and well being of its population by enforcing the financial micromanagement of healthcare so that it would be available to anyone without huge costs attached to it? Wouldn't it be more practical if a certain amount of funds would be centered for the purpose of medical treatment and research instead of being halted in favor of those who control which research would give more profit and what wouldn't. You see now that Capitalism is a state of private ownership rather than a "free" concept and is the source of unfair discrimination which is mainly maintained by individuals who are favored by the government.

I would be horrified if the government tried to micromanage healthcare. They already manage it too much, imposing huge taxes, costs and compliance fees without having to actually think about how this impacts patient care. Change and innovation is good, and government bureaucracies trend towards stagnation.

I prefer a healthcare system where people compete to treat you. Ideally, the government would give people well-enforced tax deductions for healthcare spending. That way, people have more flexibility to spend and can choose where to spend it.

BTW, this doesn't I think healthcare should be unregulated. But it should not be regulated to the point where the state has a monopoly on my healthcare options.


I beg to differ with you on that one. Chronically homeless people represent a small minority of the total homeless population in this country. Re:



That's a realistic assessment.............................nearly 1/3 are families with children.

You are correct to distinguish chronic homelessness from irregular homelessness. Though that still doesn't substantiate his idea that there are "millions" of homeless people in the US (and I got the sense he was referring to chronic homelessness).

[Oneshotchris]

yes, if you want to see a government run health clinic, go check out a VA (Veterans Andiminstration) clinic. These are a joke.

[Lewynator]

yes, if you want to see a government run health clinic, go check out a VA (Veterans Andiminstration) clinic. These are a joke.


True That!!! Although, I believe that some sort of orginization would be nice if it were to offer lower cost options that everyone can afford. Sort of like a sliding fee scale that would range from 0% for poor (homeless) to 80% for the rich (Bill Gates and Oprah people). Of course, this would also mean that prices for services would have to be regulated as well so that no matter what doctor you go to, the cost would be the same.

I have been to 4 different dentists in the past two weeks to get estimates on work I need done and every one of them was a different cost for the same work. The range difference in the 4 was almost $1200.00 from low to high estimate. That's a joke.

I am currently paying 975.00 a month for my health insurance (family) and I have an 80-20 plan with a 200.00 deductable before the 80-20 even kicks in. And for my dental, they only pay a percentage on services and they cap out at 1200.00 a year per person. I need close to 3800.00 in dental work done that has to be done all at one time, not in stages, and with a 1200.00 cap per year, I have to in a sense, have all this work done over 3 years. How can I do that when it all has to be done at the same time? Do I not get anything done then?; because I cannot just do part of it.

My health insurance sucks!! I am spending 975.00 a month (11700.00 a year) JUST ON PREMIUMS!!! That's not counting my 200.00 deductable per year and then the 20% after that I am stuck with. I maybe go to the doctor once a year. What's an office visit cost, 50.00? X-Rays, 80.00? maybe a total of 300.00 to 400.00 for one visit? 300.00 to 400.00 a year sounds a whole lot better than 11700.00+ a year, but I dont have a choice of plan because it is through work and because I am UNION, I cannot opt out of having it either (but that's a union issue I have).

Sorry to rant.

[Dreadnaught]

What if you could file paperwork and deduct legitimate healthcare expenses from your taxes?

[Lewynator]

What if you could file paperwork and deduct legitimate healthcare expenses from your taxes?


File paperwork? Yea right. Like I got time to wait 6 to 8 weeks for anyone to proccess my paperwork and if I don't already have enough crap to do on a daily bases as it is.

I say health care should be on a sliding scale such as below.......

Yearly Income level - - - - Percentage you pay based on income

0 - 10,000 - - - - - - - - - 0%
10,000 - 20,000 - - - - - - 10%
20,000 - 30,000 - - - - - - 20%
30,000 - 40,000 - - - - - - 30%
40,000 - 50,000 - - - - - - 40%
50,000 - 60,000 - - - - - - 50%
60,000 - 70,000 - - - - - - 60%
70,000 - 80,000 - - - - - - 70%
80,000 - 90,000 - - - - - - 80%
90,000 - 100,000 - - - - - 90%
100,000 - and up - - - - - 100%

[Dreadnaught]

What I mean is your taxes. When you file your taxes, you can deduct certain costs. You just have to prove that those costs you're deducting are real and legitimate. So as long as you can provide paperwork and the medical treatment is legitimate, you could deduct medical expenses from your taxes. And you would still get you choose your doctors, treatment, etc.

This deduction would all be post-insurance.

[Lewynator]

What I mean is your taxes. When you file your taxes, you can deduct certain costs. You just have to prove that those costs you're deducting are real and legitimate. So as long as you can provide paperwork and the medical treatment is legitimate, you could deduct medical expenses from your taxes. And you would still get you choose your doctors, treatment, etc.

This deduction would all be post-insurance.


Problem is, people like me have a hard time paying for it in the first place, mainly because doctor's fee's are completely out of control and WAY over priced. There fee's should have a ceiling level that they cannot go over, thus, making it more affordable to everyone. There is no reason services like an MRI or CAT SCAN should cost 3000.00 and an ambulance ride 400.00 to 700.00. These prices are just rediculas.

Great, I get it back at the end of the year, but I still have to pay for it up front. Don't do me or any other person who's budget is strapped any good. We still don't have the money NOW to pay for services we NEED NOW.

[Dreadnaught]

Except that's what those things do cost once they deal with their own insurance, supplies, training, etc.

There are lots of creative ways to cut the costs, mainly by reducing ridiculous regulations and making it hard for ambulance-chasing lawyers to sue. Do you know how much many small-town doctors pay more in malpractice insurance?