Living Small

[GGT]

Real estate agents (around here) have a reputation worse than used car salesmen.

[Widows Peak Oz]

Why all the REA hate?

[Chaloobi]

Originally Posted by Widows Peak Oz

Why all the REA hate?

Because agents pretend to represent the buyer and/or seller's interests but have giant inherent conflicts of interest that they act on practically as a rule. And they don't typically do anything for their money except fool their clients, who often trust them, into making deals that all too often suck.

[GGT]

You've read about our real estate bubble popping? Agents and brokers encouraged house-flipping and REIs.

And what choo choo said

[GGT]

Double post to share this:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/08/re....html?_r=1&hpw

That guy looks like a mannequin, or heavily medicated.

Those people pods are clever but also sort of creepy.

And maybe it's just me, but those in their 30s who pay that much in rent, to fill baby pools with pillows for hosting movie parties, are especially creepy.

[Widows Peak Oz]

Originally Posted by Chaloobi

Because agents pretend to represent the buyer and/or seller's interests but have giant inherent conflicts of interest that they act on practically as a rule. And they don't typically do anything for their money except fool their clients, who often trust them, into making deals that all too often suck.

On the contrary, REAs are typically typecast as the gold watch-wearing swindlers, their profession has been blacklisted, but most are simply desperate to make a living, being an extremely cutthroat business.

[Chaloobi]

Originally Posted by Widows Peak Oz

On the contrary, REAs are typically typecast as the gold watch-wearing swindlers, their profession has been blacklisted, but most are simply desperate to make a living, being an extremely cutthroat business.

Desperation brings out the worst in people. (Lucid objectivity / empathy noted.)

[Widows Peak Oz]

And the best too, because apparently an inordinant amount of people have 'suffered' from the wiles of teh evil real estate agent, so they must be pretty convincing.

[Chaloobi]

Originally Posted by Widows Peak Oz

And the best too, because apparently an inordinant amount of people have 'suffered' from the wiles of teh evil real estate agent, so they must be pretty convincing.

They control access to the MLS and to the process of buying/selling. Most don't want to educate themselves and make the requisite contacts to make a deal go through.

[']['ear]

Originally Posted by Chaloobi

Because agents pretend to represent the buyer and/or seller's interests but have giant inherent conflicts of interest that they act on practically as a rule. And they don't typically do anything for their money except fool their clients, who often trust them, into making deals that all too often suck.

Exactly.

They have virtually no skills. No education required, certification a joke, and as long as they can talk reasonably quickly, they can make a living. No-talent bottom dwellers. OK, that's not fair. True bottom dwellers don't have the energy to actually work. REAs work, sure. That's about all that can be said of them. They certainly get paid substantially more than they are worth. Their fees are set ahead of time, and don't reflect their actual performance in the deal at hand.

In other words, very much like car salesmen. Mostly people who get along with other people, but can't do anything substantial with their lives.

[Chaloobi]

Originally Posted by ']['ear

Mostly people who get along with other people, but can't do anything substantial with their lives.

An age old survival characteristic, though. Many a time I've wished I had that natural persuasion quality I see in some people. Not that I could take advantage of people like that. Maybe that's more or less why I don't have that quality. La lee la dah da.

[']['ear]

No, I suck at it. I can't "sell" something if I don't believe it's true, and I'm lousy at convincing myself that something is true if it ain't. Many would consider that a dangerous character flaw. It's not a survival skill.

[GGT]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1258...%3Dinteractive




Garages up front are fugly IMO. Alleyways look and work better.

[Nessus]

Originally Posted by ']['ear

No, I suck at it. I can't "sell" something if I don't believe it's true, and I'm lousy at convincing myself that something is true if it ain't. Many would consider that a dangerous character flaw. It's not a survival skill.

I thought I had replied to this post but I guess I forgot

Lying is definitely a survival skill, as is selling things you know to be untrue. Never mind the obvious politician jokes, everyone embellishes their own value in front of prospective mates, people thinking of providing them food/money, so on. As a species of societies, I cannot believe you would argue selling lies is not an essential survival skill. Particularly given that as we are "progressing" further and further into an inter-woven society, the definition of which is that less and less people have to devote their time into producing essential goods.

[GGT]

I read that to mean "lying to sell" is a survival skill, and if one doesn't have that ability, it can be seen as a character flaw.

[Chaloobi]

Originally Posted by Nessus

I thought I had replied to this post but I guess I forgot

Lying is definitely a survival skill, as is selling things you know to be untrue. Never mind the obvious politician jokes, everyone embellishes their own value in front of prospective mates, people thinking of providing them food/money, so on. As a species of societies, I cannot believe you would argue selling lies is not an essential survival skill. Particularly given that as we are "progressing" further and further into an inter-woven society, the definition of which is that less and less people have to devote their time into producing essential goods.

The first lie had to come close on the heels of the first word. There is such advantage in misrepresenting things to others.

Of course I love you, honey.

Nope, no buffalo over that hill, try the other direction.

Sure, you make ten of those awesome flint spear heads for me and I'll kill twenty deer for you.

No, that's not real gold, its fools gold.

[Chaloobi]

Originally Posted by GGT

I read that to mean "lying to sell" is a survival skill, and if one doesn't have that ability, it can be seen as a character flaw.

It used to be a survival skill. Presumably humanity would survive just fine if everyone was more or less honest. But we are always jockeying for advantage. Wether we need to or not.

[GGT]

Originally Posted by Chaloobi

It used to be a survival skill. Presumably humanity would survive just fine if everyone was more or less honest. But we are always jockeying for advantage. Wether we need to or not.

Selling used things for profit is predominately a performance stage.

Cars or homes or artwork, until we pull the back-stage curtains apart and examine the props from the merchandise and the auctioneer, or the terms of sale, it's not much more than snake oil sales from gypsies in wagons.

[']['ear]

Nessus is right. My bad. It is a survival skill. If scumbags didn't have a good way of passing on their genes, there'd be nowhere near so many of them now. It's like the "homosexuality must be important" argument, but ten fold greater.

[GGT]

Wait, I am confused (as usual).

Which is the preferred evolutionary trait, lying or honesty?

People have always boasted, strutted and preened, like peacocks. But we never got it right, any more than peacocks.

(The fancier tailed males with more attractive and colorful "eyes" on their feathers turned out to be less virile, just like the male lion with a dark mane)

As far as housing goes, it's a slowly closing gap.

Rather like trophy wives without the plastic surgery or male erectile dysfunction meds.

[Chaloobi]

Originally Posted by GGT

Which is the preferred evolutionary trait, lying or honesty?
.

Both. Different strategies.

[Widows Peak Oz]

Originally Posted by Chaloobi

They control access to the MLS and to the process of buying/selling. Most don't want to educate themselves and make the requisite contacts to make a deal go through.

Multiple Listing Service I presume?
I'm not going to pretend to be familiar with how yank REAs conduct business, but educating themselves? I'd like you to elaborate if possible, quite a lot of generalising there.

Originally Posted by ']['ear

They have virtually no skills. No education required, certification a joke, and as long as they can talk reasonably quickly, they can make a living.

Rubbish, if you weren't so blinded by the haggard, archaic and stubborn old stereotype, you'd see how ignorant you sound, and from that how little experience you've presented as the basis for that aggressive opinion.

Consider the networking and communications they have to placate, the integration of technology and for many, teaching themselves how to overcome their traditional inertia and open their business to E-possibilities. The sheer amounts of procedural paperwork, the process itself, listing, inquiries, walk-throughs, building enough trust in the customer, I could go on and on.

REAs work, sure. That's about all that can be said of them. They certainly get paid substantially more than they are worth. Their fees are set ahead of time, and don't reflect their actual performance in the deal at hand.

Again, ignorance, stop making blanket statements that fuel the tired old diatribe about the infamy of real estate. Most REAs struggle through fickle markets, and imagine attempting to persuade the unsure and totally clueless client to part with their dwelling or acquiring another, then you have first-home buyers, renters, development projects, housing commission troubles, etc etc.

It's nearly as cutthroat as the industry segment that I myself operate in, your livelihood and in 90% of cases your success, depends on one of two words from a client. You have to spend a good 5 years in the market before you garner enough goodwill and rep via word-of-mouth to establish yourself and thus achieve some modicum of 'success'.

In other words, very much like car salesmen. Mostly people who get along with other people, but can't do anything substantial with their lives.

To put it bluntly, it's a desperate trade, very easy to sit around the cooler and condemn those who attempt to make a living off dealing with the average ****ing moron, so it may be good practice not to appear as one of them Tear.

Originally Posted by ']['ear

No, I suck at it. I can't "sell" something if I don't believe it's true, and I'm lousy at convincing myself that something is true if it ain't. Many would consider that a dangerous character flaw. It's not a survival skill.

That makes utterly no difference at all, one can hack up any old psychological rationale to throw over the salesman, morality is a delicate line to walk. I have NEVER lied to a customer, there is an entire field of company research and implemented systems devoted to making it unnecessary TO lie.

Originally Posted by Chaloobi

It used to be a survival skill. Presumably humanity would survive just fine if everyone was more or less honest. But we are always jockeying for advantage. Wether we need to or not.

I like entertaining the idea of complete and utter pretence, certainly more violence as a result, but perhaps a greater universal understanding?

Originally Posted by GGT

Selling used things for profit is predominately a performance stage.

Cars or homes or artwork, until we pull the back-stage curtains apart and examine the props from the merchandise and the auctioneer, or the terms of sale, it's not much more than snake oil sales from gypsies in wagons.

Why do CCers like to employ common (poor) assumptions as statements of veracity?
Snake oil sales?
Really?

[Chaloobi]

Originally Posted by Widows Peak Oz

Multiple Listing Service I presume?
I'm not going to pretend to be familiar with how yank REAs conduct business, but educating themselves? I'd like you to elaborate if possible, quite a lot of generalising there.


I like entertaining the idea of complete and utter pretence, certainly more violence as a result, but perhaps a greater universal understanding?

? ::

Yes, multiple listing service. And by self education, I mean people selling their houses . We don't know how to close the deal ourselves so we hire agents....

Please explain more what you mean about utter pretense and universal understanding. Paradoxical.

[']['ear]

Originally Posted by Chaloobi

Yes, multiple listing service. And by self education, I mean people selling their houses . We don't know how to close the deal ourselves so we hire agents....

Exactly. I will never use an REA again. For the most part they are parasites. 6% of the selling price? It's a ****ing joke. The inspectors, lawyers, even mortgage broker perform far more important roles, yet they get paid far less.

But, for first time buyers, the whole process is so overwhelming that an REA is probably necessary.

[GGT]

I acted as my own agent once, and sold my home that way. Took quite a bit of time and effort, tho. Weeding out the serious buyer from the Sunday shopper, plus the safety factor of strangers in my house. Some realtors even tried to bring clients and charge double fees, until I said the realtor's fee could be paid by the buyer or I'd jack up the price accordingly.

I saved a lot of money and hired a real estate attorney to check the documents and represent me at the closing.....but I wouldn't do it again. The internet makes things much easier now, but the legal climate has changed so much. Especially with agents and conflict of interest/buyer or seller rep that varies state-to-state.

I think our local agents in Pa all charge a 10% fee now, split between buyer and seller only if they're not with the same agent, but not totally sure. It's a complicated process.

[[T]Baxter]

Originally Posted by GGT

Some realtors even tried to bring clients and charge double fees, until I said the realtor's fee could be paid by the buyer or I'd jack up the price accordingly.

My experience with realtors was the first time I adopted the phrase "you are the reason I won't donate blood or sign an organ donor card". They are the sleaziet most disgusting bastards on the planet. I'd rather deal with a rapist to sell my home...

[']['ear]

Originally Posted by GGT

I think our local agents in Pa all charge a 10% fee now, split between buyer and seller only if they're not with the same agent, but not totally sure. It's a complicated process.

Egad. 10%!!! Holy ****! It's 6% here.

Think of that. $20,000 on a 200K house? What exactly do these people DO for 20K? You can rip out your entire kitchen and get it replaced with high end stainless steel appliances and granite counter tops for that. You can build a small addition for that.

The whole thing is racket. As you mention, I'm happy to pay a lawyer for the paperwork, but REAs don't even do that (IIRC the lawyer was maybe $400? No objections to that.)