Could Guru have been the Ideal Saiyan Buster?

[Timothy2035]

Seeing that Guru is the elder of the Namekian people, looks like he lived a very long time, and that he more than likely trained Nail in the ancient ways of the warrior, do you think if Guru was younger, leaner he could have beaten Frieza on Namek?

Guru was also bigger than most all Nameks and with his eyes closed, he sensed people's presence more than anything else.


so he was mystical as well...

any thoughts?

[Jin Kazama]

Timothy, I dare you to make the 'Official Namekian Chat Thread' Where we can all talk about namekians.

[Dark Sephiroth]

no he wouldent of. His abiltys would have been great(creating dragonballs) and
(awaking the sleeping power of a person) but in phisical no not that strong

[RealQMark]

Nope, he wouldn't have. For 1 simple reason. He wasn't a warrior Namekian. He was a healer. Healer's have natural abilities only to themselves. Like for one Healer's(Who are of Dragon Clan) have a unique ability to create DragonBalls. Warrior Namekians on the other hand cannot.

Here is also some more info from Wiki:

• Combat castes
  • Fighter-type: Fighter nameks are the most powerful of the nameks, dwarfing other nameks in combat ability. Nail and Piccolo Junior are the only two of this type seen.
  • Warrior-type: Described in the Daizenshuu, these are nameks who are proficient in combat, but not at the same level as Fighter-types. Note that this variety only appears in the Dragon Ball Z anime.
  • Soldier-type: Described in the Daizenshuu, these are nameks who are proficient in combat, but not at the same level as Warrior-types.
• Support castes
  • Healer-type: These nameks can heal the wounds of others
  • Dragon clan: These nameks are the only ones capable of creating / manipulating Dragon Balls.

[Jin Kazama]

Am I true about this;

King Piccolo and Kami were once the same person. Good and Evil in one body. The Good and Evil in one body fough ineachother, and finaly they split. When they were split the Alpha Dragonball and Alpha Black Star Dragonballs were made. King Piccolo was a Fighter Type, and Kami a Healer type. King Piccolo was sealed by the Mafuba wave. Leaving only Kami. Kami decided to split the dragonballs apart making two sets, Black Star, and Normal. Black star were WAy to powerful, so he kept them at the Lookout. But the Normal balls were spread around the world. King Piccolo was relesed.
King Piccolo and Kami are two different people. Like Brothers. When King Piccolo was Killed, Piccolo was born. Kami is like Piccolo's Uncle. Piccolo Jr.(Majunior) was Only 3/4 as evil and strong King Piccolo. Piccolo kept training, and surpassed him. He died in the Saiyan Saga, he arrived at King Kai. He trained. He was revived with the Namekian Dragonballs. He fused with Nail, to become stronger. Then He Kept training and training, and finaly combined with Kami, if Piccolo was Still King Piccolo at this time, They would've turned into the original Piccolo. But No, Piccolo was semi-pure hearted, and combined withh a completly pure heart. Making Kamicolo, but still refered to as Piccolo. Piccolo continued to train, as a good guy. But then in Dragonball GT he died in Hell. wuttahell?

[RealQMark]

Jin Kazama, you have to get one thing straight. GT never happened. Period. There was no black star dragonballs.

[Jin Kazama]

Dragonball GT may have alot of holes in it, but it is still part of the Dragonball Franchise. and should be treated as it.

[Timothy2035]

I applaud you Jin on that little synopsis. Very well...

But RealQ, it was said (by Guru in the Frieza saga) that Piccolo was of a powerful Dragon family. And that is why Kami and Piccolo's presence on Earth allowed the DBs to be there. With them gone, their Dragon balls left too. Reason why they needed Piccolo to return to get more wishes as their Dragon Balls would return too.

So with Guru dieing, that last wish from Puronga couldn't be granted, and thus, Guru could have been more awesome a fighter than Piccolo, as he is the eldest Namek and more wise than Kami.

[Jin Kazama]

Anyone remeber on B3, If u visted Guru as Piccolo he says "Welcome son of Katas" or something like that. Maybe that is the name of King Piccolo + Kami! UBER HAX!

[Dark Sephiroth]

it is probaly kami's and piccolos ancestor

[RealQMark]

Originally Posted by Timothy2035

I applaud you Jin on that little synopsis. Very well...

But RealQ, it was said (by Guru in the Frieza saga) that Piccolo was of a powerful Dragon family. And that is why Kami and Piccolo's presence on Earth allowed the DBs to be there. With them gone, their Dragon balls left too. Reason why they needed Piccolo to return to get more wishes as their Dragon Balls would return too.

So with Guru dieing, that last wish from Puronga couldn't be granted, and thus, Guru could have been more awesome a fighter than Piccolo, as he is the eldest Namek and more wise than Kami.

I dont need a re-education on the series. I didnt abide by the Anime like the rest of you. I abided by the Manga. Everything else is non-canon.

Your missing my point completely. Guru could have never been a fighter. He wasnt that of a fighter status. He was more like a Kami of Namek. The only reason Kami was able to create the DragonBalls was because he was of the Dragon Clan.

EDIT: Ah, I see where your Dilema is Timothy. You didnt know that Healer's/NonFighters could not evolve to be fighters. I'll explain the quick breakdown then. On Namek, there are certain types of Namekians. There are fighters, healer's, and soldiers. The healer's could not evolve to be a fighter. It was never explained why, this was just the way it was. Also, the only Namekians able to create/maniuplate DragonBalls are the actual descendants of the Dragon Clan family. Kami was of the family, thus why he was able to create them.

[Timothy2035]

Originally Posted by RealQMark

Your missing my point completely. Guru could have never been a fighter. He wasnt that of a fighter status. He was more like a Kami of Namek. The only reason Kami was able to create the DragonBalls was because he was of the Dragon Clan.

Okay so who trained Nail, and how is it that Guru considered Nail like "a son"?

EDIT: Ah, I see where your Dilema is Timothy. You didnt know that Healer's/NonFighters could not evolve to be fighters. I'll explain the quick breakdown then. On Namek, there are certain types of Namekians. There are fighters, healer's, and soldiers. The healer's could not evolve to be a fighter. It was never explained why, this was just the way it was. Also, the only Namekians able to create/maniuplate DragonBalls are the actual descendants of the Dragon Clan family. Kami was of the family, thus why he was able to create them.

so what is the case with Dende? Being "gifted" as they called it. But is this conflicting with Manga? And how is it that a Namek is "Guardian of Earth" if in fact you can't do something to fight? All the wisdom in the world is no good without some sort of action behind it. Though I get your point, but what we have seen was something different. If in fact Kami tells Piccolo that in reuniting with him, that he will gain Kami's "power" and all "his vast knowledge". So "power" for or from what? And if Kami was a healer, then his fusion with Piccolo, he would have been able to heal himself and keep fighting don't you think (in the Cell saga)? Really Piccolo having a warrior Namek in him in the form of Nail and having his power added to Piccolo (another warrior) plus the merger of the healer should have yielded an almost unstoppable being. See Saiyans have to recoup to fight again, Piccolo having the healing ability restored to him, should have turned around more quickly. It's odd how that story pans out. Looks like they short changed Piccolo in the series then.

Sorry I was away for a bit. I was playing some X-BOX LIVE Godzilla.

[RealQMark]

Sigh, your still not getting it. I don't make up the rules for this stuff. I just argue about them on DBZ forums. :P

Anyway, Nail is a fighter type. He was born knowing how to fight. Just like how when Piccolo aka MaJunior was born he knew how to fight. Nail most likely trained himself in the ways of martial arts.

Kami knew how to fight. He was a fighter type as apparent when he participated in the World Tournament to fight Majunior. This means that during a fight Piccolo neither Kami can heal themselves. Mainly because they aren't healer types.

It also seems your a bit clueless on the fact that everyone on Namek was Guru's son. They were all born through him.

[Timothy2035]

Originally Posted by RealQMark

Kami knew how to fight. He was a fighter type as apparent when he participated in the World Tournament to fight Majunior. This means that during a fight Piccolo neither Kami can heal themselves. Mainly because they aren't healer types.

Yet you say this here...

Your missing my point completely. Guru could have never been a fighter. He wasnt that of a fighter status. He was more like a Kami of Namek. The only reason Kami was able to create the DragonBalls was because he was of the Dragon Clan.

and this also...

He was a healer. Healer's have natural abilities only to themselves. Like for one Healer's(Who are of Dragon Clan) have a unique ability to create DragonBalls.

* Healer-type: These nameks can heal the wounds of others
* Dragon clan: These nameks are the only ones capable of creating / manipulating Dragon Balls.

So now looking at what you said, Guru was more like a Kami. Kami was of the Dragon Clan. So you are hinting that Guru was of the Dragon Clan as even you say he is the father of the Nameks. Plus that Guru was a healer. So the Dragon Balls of Earth were linked to Kami, who was linked to Piccolo. Not to mention that Kami and the original Piccolo were once in 1 body. And with Guru being linked to the DBs of Namek, and also having unique abilities, how is it that Guru couldn't have been a fighter if in fact he is the father of the Nameks on Planet Namek? How can you have diversity if you yourself don't have the abilities or traits for something? That is against natural order.

See you said this here....

It also seems your a bit clueless on the fact that everyone on Namek was Guru's son. They were all born through him.

So those fighting Nameks who went to fight Frieza and Vegeta came from a Dragon Clan Healer. Is that what you are saying?

[RealQMark]

-_- You dont know much Japanese do you? Kami translates to "God". I didnt meant he was like Kami himself. Its just unfortunate that Kami's name was Kami.

Fighter types can be spawned from Healer types and Vice Versa. How long have you been watching or reading DBZ? I dont mean to say this to offend you but you make it very difficult to explain the simplest things.

[Timothy2035]

Originally Posted by RealQMark

-_- You dont know much Japanese do you? Kami translates to "God". I didnt meant he was like Kami himself. Its just unfortunate that Kami's name was Kami.

I know little Japanese. But you didn't specifiy in your post, so I went with what you said.

Fighter types can be spawned from Healer types and Vice Versa. How long have you been watching or reading DBZ? I dont mean to say this to offend you but you make it very difficult to explain the simplest things.

Your point is confusing. I went with what your replies were. I only watched the animes. I didn't buy any manga books or other print material. It was enough just to catch episodes or track them down on DVD. I looked at what you said, with my own counter replies, but my replies are based off what you said in the posts. I matched it up from the logic at hand.

[RealQMark]

Ah, well it was confusing for both of us no less. I watched the Anime but also read the Manga. Any series that is on both, its more appropriate to go with the Manga since that was the original storyline. Anime's tend to create plotholes by adding filler.

Point is, Guru can't be a fighter. He would make a great one with his vast knowledge but he simply wasn't born one. Though, he seems to be far advanced than any Namek for his ability to release hidden powers in a matter of seconds. Which is beneficial to Namekians like Nail.

EDIT: Now I also see where some of the confusion comes in. I never realized I typed that only Healer's can create DragonBalls. What I mean was that only Namekians of the Dragon Clan can create them as indicated by my last few points in one of those posts.

[Mr.Studmuffin]

This entire thread is riddled with opinions and fans speculation. That said, I don't care if Billy Blade trained Guru personally. There's no possible way Guru would ever of been strong enough to defeat Frieza. Then again, that's my opinion. What isn't an opinion, however, is the fact that Guru is not a fighting Namek. Like Dende, Guru is a healer type Namek. And Piccolo and Nail are both fighting Nameks. This is fact!

Furthermore, the breakdown of the Namek classes is explained in detail in one of the Daizenshuu volumes.

[Timothy2035]

Originally Posted by Mr.Studmuffin

This entire thread is riddled with opinions and fans speculation.

O'RLY!!!

That said, I don't care if Billy Blade trained Guru personally. There's no possible way Guru would ever of been strong enough to defeat Frieza. Then again, that's my opinion.

You mean Billy Blanks. Guru was old and rather.....rotound. If in his prime, we may have seen a different view of him.

That's why we have a thread here. To discuss some things.

[RealQMark]

TLS, when's the last time you haven't seen a DBZ thread riddled with speculation?

There really isn't anything here to discuss really. I mean if Guru were a fighter is still only pure speculation. Usually thread's like this seem to get out of hand on these forums and ends up in a flame war. We can wonder all day if Guru would be a great fighter or not if he were the type, but we still wouldnt get anywhere close to the answer because the question itself has no basis.

[Mr.Studmuffin]

Oops! I meant Billy Blanks, not Blades. I hate it when that happens.

In any event, the fact still remains that Guru is "not" a fighting Namek. He has been established as being a healing Namek. This much is not debatable. To be honest, it's difficult to debate this topic because there's nothing to debate. It pretty much a cut and dry discussion. Then again, I guess it's sometimes cool to speculate the "what if" side of a discussion. And "if" Guru were a fighting type I suppose he would be more reminiscent of Super Lord Slug than anyone else. Mainly because of his abnormal size.

[Dbfan]

Who knows, every statement in this thread doesn't mean anything. Akira never stated what Guru was capable of in his prime because there never was anything regarding Guru in his prime.

Therefore this whole discussion is just a blank. Unless you just want to mess around and play the 'what if' game. That gets you no where though.

[Jin Kazama]

Wasn't Kami Both a Fighter and Healer?

Didn't he train Goku?

[Dbfan]

Yes, Kami was a fighter. Was he a healer? I'm not sure.

[Jin Kazama]

He did healing from time to time.

[GothDBZMan]

Originally Posted by Timothy2035

O'RLY!!!

YA RLY!!

Seriously though, I think Guru might put up a decent fight like Nail did (if he were younger) but Frieza would probally be victorious.

[RealQMark]

No, Kami was never a healer. Wherever it showed him healing, is completely filler. This thread can pretty much be closed since there is nothing else to add.

[Dbfan]

Yeah, I thought he was a fighter alone.

Well like I said, we could just go on with 'what ifs', unless you find that boring.

[KayzorKross]

I wanted to pose a question to you guys about the end of Dragonball. There was a namek called Junior... was that just Piccolo under another name? x.x It confused me because I didn't watch the series from beginning to end and I watched DBZ first.

[RealQMark]

The name Junior is only their to conceal the fact that Piccolo was the form of the Evil King Piccolo but younger. He used the name Majunior to enter the tournament but his name changed almost instaneously when the Dragonball Z arc started.