Atari Kills Legend - Et Tu Atari ???

[Werelock]

Wow again. I'm gone for nearly 30 hours this time and Atari has added nothing. Nada, zero, zip, zilch, absolutely squat to this thread.

We're still waiting to be treated like respected paying customers - most of whom have asked very relevant and intelligent questions while behaving like adults. Can you do no more than give us rote answers that someone came up with in 30 seconds? Someone, somewhere within Atari has answers to a lot or our questions, if not all. Why are they not speaking to us or the gaming media???

We'll take an answer either way, so long as it answers questions.

[L0cky]

Everything else aside...

XMP is a jewel that's being kept in a box where nobody can see it.

I remember the old Atari before Infogrammes bought their name. If the old Atari had a game as good as XMP under their wings they'd be excited about it, you wouldn't be able to shut them up. The new Atari doesn't even seem like it plays games; instead it jumps on brand names and cuts business deals.

XMP is a poignant accomplishment of team based gaming.

As I said earlier, at the end of the day it's about the games; but if my gaming experience is spoiled by a feeling of corporate persuasion, then that experience isn't fun. If Atari fail to support and advertise XMP then buying UT2k4 will leave a sour taste in my mouth. Like many others, I won't do it.

[Dork]

If anyone has a channel to Bruno Bonnell could they remind him what he said when Infogrames took over the Atari name (June 2001):

We gained the Atari name as part of the Hasbro deal and we like it a lot. It will become a major brand again, probably from October. We will use the Atari name on big games like Stuntman and the Unreal series. Hasbro used Atari as a classic arcade brand, but we're going the other way. If Atari decided to launch as a company today, it wouldn't do Pong, it would do a leading edge game.

That was great, and sounded a bit like commitment.
Somehow, the last sentence ending ". . . it would do a leading edge game and then shut down the team that developed it." doesn't sound right.
Is this a Bruno Bonnell strategic 'improvement'?

[girl_1]

----- Original Message -----
From: "agreaves"
To: <matt.frary@atari.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2004 8:57 AM
Subject: atari forums


> Please reply, there are a lot of people waiting....
>
> http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums...0&pagenumber=6
>

[950Ravage]

Originally posted by Dork
If anyone has a channel to Bruno Bonnell could they remind him what he said when Infogrames took over the Atari name (June 2001):That was great, and sounded a bit like commitment.
Somehow, the last sentence ending ". . . it would do a leading edge game and then shut down the team that developed it." doesn't sound right.
Is this a Bruno Bonnell strategic 'improvement'?

Actually, I just realized something. XMP doesn't even display the Atari name when it launches. It requires Unreal 2, which does show the Atari branding (afterthought, apparently), but XMP itself doesn't. I think that will live on as proof that Atari didn't support XMP, and doesn't intend to.

I remember that statement now. Thx for reposting it Dork.

[L0cky]

The new Atari doesn't even seem like it plays games; instead it jumps on brand names and cuts business deals.

We gained the Atari name as part of the Hasbro deal ... Hasbro used Atari as a classic arcade brand, but we're going the other way.

Maybe Bruno was listening to a mother's old adage - 'Begin as you mean to go on'

[PR_Flak]

Originally posted by girl_1
----- Original Message -----
From: "agreaves"
To: <matt.frary@atari.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2004 8:57 AM
Subject: atari forums
> Please reply, there are a lot of people waiting....
>
> http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums...0&pagenumber=6
>

Thanks for the email and for staying on top of me on this. I know responses are a bit slow in coming, but I am trying to get answers to your questions. The answers I'm giving you are the only answers I have at this point... and I totally understand that these answers have not been completely satisfying.

(As for support of the game, as I stated above, Atari’s technical support group, working in collaboration with internal development, will manage the distribution of any patches and updates for the product that are deemed necessary.)

I'm really concerned that this strong groundswell of protest here in the forums will go unheard. Frankly, the message board isn't the best way for the fans to be properly heard by the people that need to hear them. I think you all have proved that this needs to be taken up a level in activity. Here's what I suggest:

**I want those of you who feel strongly enough about this to email me (matt.frary@atari.com), sending a letter expressing your opinion on Legend's closing, your questions about XMP support, and your doubts about Atari as a company, if that is the case, or anything else you want voiced on this issue. I will then collect those emails and present them upwards so that your opinion can be heard. Please send emails to me with the subject line: "LEGEND/XMP FEEDBACK"** One each please...

I think that by instituting a more coordinated and formal method of feedback that I can collect and sort and summarize for people, we'll be able to make an impact and have your voices properly heard.

Does this sound good?

A NOTE ON THE EMAILS: what I am looking for here is constructive and meaningful reaction, questions, concerns and opinions on the matter. Emails that are simply attacks that "Atari sux and I hate you now" are not worth anything in a community effort like this. Those emails would only serve to diminish the validity of your opinions, so please, do everyone a favor and avoid these types of rant emails!

You have a commitment from me to read, sort and pass along your feelings and concerns to decision makers. I hope this helps. Although, I'm sure I will find out if it does in a matter of minutes...

[girl_1]

Now THAT'S what I'm talkin' about....

However let me take it one step further. I've posted the following petition:


To: Atari Inc.
This petition is in response to PR_Flak Matt Frarys' request for feedback regarding the closure of Legend Entertainment as well as the support for their release Unreal 2 Expanded Multi Player (XMP).

To Wit:

Dear Mr.Frary,
As a concerned participant in the gaming community I would like to see Atari address the following issues ASAP:

1. Recognition and promotion of XMP as a Atari product.
2. A commitment to provide ongoing support for XMP and Unreal 2 as regards to "patches" for playability flaws as well as a reporting system to make these flaws known.
3. A statement of recognition for the efforts put into the development of Wheel of Time, Unreal 2 and XMP by the former Legend Entertainment team.
4. A commitment to consider continued development of content under the Unreal Engine.
5. An understanding of the need to gather accurate and thorough marketing information from the customers in future, similar situations

Sincerely,

The Undersigned


http://www.petitiononline.com/Legend/petition.html

[PR_Flak]

That will work as well. I'd personally prefer to hear personal reactions from people in my email that I can put together as a package of feedback for people, but I'll take it either way!

Thanks, girl_1, for taking the lead...

[MachDelta]

TY Flak

[L0cky]

I think Flak is more after opinions on Atari, researching how the company is viewed by it's customers; this is his job after all (and I'm not trying to slide in any incongruos meaning by that ).

I'm composing an email that'll serve both purposes.

btw girl, I don't get this

4. A commitment to consider continued development of content under the Unreal Engine.

[L0cky]

Warning: longwinded

This email is in response to the request made by Matt Frary on the Atari Community forums (http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums...25#post4585488)

As a customer (and a veteran player of many Atari/LE/Epic games), I was left with a few doubts about Atari since Legend Entertainment was closed. My first reaction was to wonder wether Atari actually cared about making good games, or if they were more interested in just getting games off of the shelf and making a quick buck via publicity. Afterwards, when the shock had worn off I came to the rational conclusion that Atari are a business and they have their decisions to make, with respect.

However, it still leaves those of us who purchased Unreal 2 and play XMP with concerns about support for the game. We have since found out that Atari will continue technical support for XMP although this leaves some uneasiness about unrelated staff updating a product without the experience of having conceived it. My hope is that they will strive to retain the XMP 'feel' and gameplay when fixing software issues.

The main problem with most of the community is the publicity XMP is getting (or not). Those of us who have been fortunate to have learned about the game feel that it is a great experience; even a new benchmark in online teamplay. However, we're saddened and anxious about it's small community from the start, caused by it's awkward release and low level coverage (Most people have never heard of it, and most of those who have think it's a small feature added to a game they don't own or don't like).

No amount of technical support will make an online game enjoyable without players. We believe XMP to be greatly eligable for competition play, and a perfect game for many communities, yet nobody knows what it is.

I know that Atari has another game, UT2004 in the wings for a release soon and it looks from this end that it is being prioritized. I personally would have more faith in a games publisher that has more faith in us, the games player to decide for ourselves what we think is a great game and what isn't. With fair publicity and exposure it is left to us to make or break a game. Promoting a product to beat the competition is both understandable and fair, but for a company to push one of it's own products of such quality into the shade for the sake of another casts doubt upon itself in the eyes of the customer as to how much the company shares it's enthusiasm with the customer for what they are doing.

To put it bluntly, if I feel we're being pushed to play certain games by way of persuasion and favouritism, I'm going to play someone elses games; so my first doubts are returning. Quality should speak for itself.

I'm not implying that these are Atari's intentions, only how they appear to be.

I appreaciate the invitation,

Darren Gordon
L0cky

p.s. If I magically became head of Atari for the day I'd release a true standalone version of XMP and do a little promotion, with the enthusiasm that one of my great games deserves.

[PR_Flak]

Originally posted by L0cky
I think Flak is more after opinions on Atari, researching how the company is viewed by it's customers; this is his job after all (and I'm not trying to slide in any incongruos meaning by that ).

Got your email -- thanks for it!

I'm not focusing on Atari feedback, really. I really just want to be able to pass on the word that the community very much wants continued support of XMP and is feeling betrayed by the closing of Legend. Feedback on Atari is welcome as well, but it's not the thrust of what I'm looking for.

Thanks to those who have emailed so far -- keep 'em coming.

and What about Unreal II for the Xbox. Will that be supported as well? I think not they may release a patch but I seriously doubt if they'll give us any new maps. Legend was IMHO one of the best fps devs out there. Maybe atari will buy the company that makes Doom so it can screw that **** up too. That way we'll all be forced to play quake.

[MachDelta]

U2 for the Xbox is being done by Tantalus, Legend has/had very little to do with the development (other than handing over the code and art ).

[SquirrelFire]

just out of curiousity is Atari a publicly traded company? because if it is and all of us went out and bought stock in the company and spoke with one voice we could have alot of impact on the company...just a though

[Werelock]

Squirrel: From the Investor' Relations page on Atari.com:

----
ATAR (Common Stock)
Last Trade $4.60
Change (%) 0.15 (3.16%)
Exchange NASDAQ
Volume 1,019,312
01/22/04 4:00 PM ET

----

I don't have any money at the moment as I just finished my bachelor's and am in between jobs at the moment. Not a bad idea though - if you can get about $100,000 worth of stock purchased total.

Also, anyone on high bandwidth want to kill about 30 minutes watching their 11/03/03 Q2 2004 Earnings conference call? Might be relevant to the discussions here.

Macabre - Why did you go and copy/paste emails from random people and incite others to spam them? What kind of moron are you?

I know that you've included at least one private email address there that has NOTHING to do with gaming news sites AT ALL. You are so incredibly stupid you weren't capable of even reading the webpages you copy/pasted from.

You may think this is "getting publicity". Instead, it's triggered a request for getting your post (and possibly the thread) deleted.

Frankly, it beggars belief that you had the cohones to use the phrase "common courtesy". If you had an ounce of courtesy, you would have spent the - what, thirty seconds? - necessary to find the email addresses for news editors.

[girl_1]

58 sigs in under 12 hours and counting....

[Karthik]

I think the reason why Atari closed Legend is because:

1) The PC version of Enter the Matrix sold poorly.

2) T3: Rise of the Machines used up alot of their funding and bombed.

3) T3: War of the Machines bombed big time, which is no suprise as it was released as a beta version.

IMHO, Infogrames used the name Atari to hide behind it. In fact I blame Infogrames for doing really horrible decisions like not allowing Imperium Galactica series to be continued and screwing up the Alone in the Dark franchise.

Here's why AitD sequels went downhill:

Soon after Popcorn, Fred had gone into game design seriously. A 22 year old with a wild project on his hands, he soon met Bruno Bonnel, founder of Infogrames 1983, together the signed a deal which turned out to be in no favor for Fred. Fred had developed Alone in the Dark with a team of 7 people. The game was released in 1992. At its release the game was a hit, making millions of franks, though Fred wasn’t given a share of any of it! That too with the idea of having to make the sequel in less than a year, devastated Fred who continued his game designing career.

You can read all about it here:http://www.twinadv.com/index.php?action=view&id=6

[Milamber*]

lol! That sig is hilarious Karthik. I was looking forward to that game too...aww well, at least I got a good laugh out of it.

[Ultron]

I've been away for the last 2 weeks on business so I've missed all of this, but I'll say this:

Flak is one of the good guys. I can't speak for Degs or the other Atari person who spoke, as I don't know them at all, but logically-speaking, I can't disagree with any of the arguements Degs has made, and I see him as trying to help.

But let there be no mistake here, I'm 100% behind girl_1 here at being outraged at what happened.

I realize you guys can't just write a "tell all" peice about this, either due to NDA's, job security, or just not being totally in the loop on everything. But we need to work together to help out the LE people as best as we can, and do whatever is needed to keep XMP supported as best as possible.

As far as projects go, and I speak as a professional here, it's totally plausible for LE to work on a project on their own, while they are waiting work from Atari on an official product. Publishing and software houses work differently than other arrangements and if they aren't being given something by Atari (for whatever reason) then it doesn't hurt them to work on something on the side to keep everyone fresh and keep teamwork going.

[[-M-]acabre]

Geez... are these the kind of flames the current generation is producing? "Incredibly stupid" and "moron" are just plain unispired. Stop wasting my time with drivel that can pour out of any 6 year-old's mouth.

*shrugs* Asside from the boomtown.net people, there were only 2 personal email addresses. Both of whom I know and asked thier permission to post thier email. As for the BT.net, I know a couple of them as well and one suggested that I just post thier whole PC game section. So it appears I am at least a courteous "moron."

"Inciting people to spam." I'm not even going to touch that (well maybe just a tad). Not even in the Twilight Zone could you construe my post to have that effect. As you mentioned, even in the post that is deleted, I asked people to be kind and use the "BCC." Yes, clearly these are the actions of a rabid-spam-hound spat out of Hell. Clearly, I am seeking to further my nefarious plot.

If the moderators choose to delete a post of mine, that's ok with me. It's their BBQ. I haven't been banned off these boards since '98 and I would like to keep it that way. So, here is the deal. I will stop posting in this thread. In return, you promise never, ever, to post in the same thread as me again. Even your silly 'mashed-on-the-keypad-because-I-couldn't-think' name gives me a throbbing migraine. Future conversations could incapacitate me for life. Since I don't want to live as a vegi, hooked up with a jarvix and a respirator, I'll bow out now.

[MachDelta]

Originally posted by Ultron
As far as projects go, and I speak as a professional here, it's totally plausible for LE to work on a project on their own, while they are waiting work from Atari on an official product. Publishing and software houses work differently than other arrangements and if they aren't being given something by Atari (for whatever reason) then it doesn't hurt them to work on something on the side to keep everyone fresh and keep teamwork going.

I disagree here Ultron. Possible yes, plausible... eh, maybe not. Judging by the amount of enthusiasm the LE guys had/have for XMP, I don't think that, given a choice, they'd be working on something else. So whatever their mystery project was, I don't think it would have been a "motivational product", so to speak. If they were forced to work on it, that sounds to me like they had a timeline/deadline - things you get from a publisher.

Given the way Atari handled the rest of this situation, I don't find it a stretch of the imagination to believe they were lying about the "no more projects thing". (Though it is possible that only a handful of people in Atari knew about the project because it hadn't been finalized or whatever. Still doesn't make me any less angry with em though )

[[HotH]Trennik]

man, the whole "deleting contact names/e-mail addresses/numbers so we aren't encouraged to voice our opinion" thing is getting old. That's super-lame.

[Milamber*]

Actually, I know of a project Legend did have. In fact, the concept for it was bumped because work on Unreal 2 took precedence. A little bit of information on the project was leaked a few years ago, but the post has been deleted since Pezman cleaned out the archives.

There were a few things on the plate...but Atari most likely decided they were not lucrative enough despite the fact that several gamers (including myself) were looking forward to them.

Much like Enter the Matrix and T3, I'm sure Atari's precious resources will go towards another craptacular movie-related game that will absolutely bomb. Any takers on what's next? I say The Punisher. I'll even go as far as to predict a quote for the generic gaming magazine review. "Playing this game is punishment."

I'm calling it here and now.

[grex-ceo]

Originally posted by [-M-]acabre
[b]
*shrugs* Asside from the boomtown.net people, there were only 2 personal email addresses. Both of whom I know and asked thier permission to post thier email.

As an innocent bystander in whatever's going on here, I can confirm you are either mistaken or a liar - you included *my* personal address (ceo @ ...) without contacting me, and as far as I know I've never heard of you, let alone know you. I have nothing to do with GameDev.net (although my name *is* Adam), and never have done. Please edit your post and remove my address.

The first email I received from you lot was mildly interesting; subsequent ones are becoming very dull indeed, so please stop sending them.

Originally posted by [HotH]Trennik
man, the whole "deleting contact names/e-mail addresses/numbers so we aren't encouraged to voice our opinion" thing is getting old. That's super-lame.

Erm, so you don't mind if I take YOUR personal email address and sign it up to all those "porn in your inbox" things?

I really don't care about Atari, legends, or anyone else in this saga. I don't know why I've been picked as a target for your complaints (I have *never* had anything to do with Atari).

Whatever your problems with Atari, I suggest they won't be solved by randomly contacting people who aren't involved and have no interest whatsoever. Perhaps you should try writing a "Soapbox" article for GameDeveloper magazine? "rants are welcome, don't mince your words" is what they say, and it gets your words out to most pro games developers worldwide...

[SquirrelFire]

ok...ur post just confused the heck outa me...so u have an email addy that is @ some game magazine?

and the point of the email campaign is to bring the actions of atari (through gaming magazines and web sites) to the attention of all players idealy raising a giant ruccus that will force atari to re think its destrustion of legends...but we will settle for an article that points out the many stupid things atari has done as of late

so @ u

[Karthik]

I predict the next bomb will be Driv3r!

[girl_1]

It was deleted squirrel - I was lucky enough to get a quick glimpse before it went bye bye.

I looked pretty harmless to me, although someone claimed it had a private email in it.

So far this post has had a spectacular amount of editing by non-authors in it. Almost exciting to see what's going to dissapear next.

AHOY Mr.FLAK :

I hope you plan on sharing with us the results of your efforts to bring the emails/petitions to the attention of your management. Could we get a ballpark date as to when this might happen (next week, next two weeks, next eon...)?