DM-ADVMAN-02-alpha4 [Pics] [Alpha] [Updated]

[advman]

Name: DM-Noxious-Fumes-beta-01
Version: Beta 01
Compatibility: UT2004

ATTENTION PLEASE: This map has been released in the meantime. Please take all discussion over to the release announcement thread.

News: As far as I can tell, this map is finished. There were no gameplay-relevant changes since the last Alpha in June, thus I expect it to be still playable

It is possible that the odd BSP hole or some collision problems have escaped QA, thus this beta. If there are no severe technical problems, then I will release the final next weekend.

Thanks to all who gave me feedback during the Alpha phase. This would not have been possible without you.

Description: The map consists of three areas that are interconnected on three levels and in various ways. It features all but superweapons (I still don't like them), has a wildcard pickup, three medium health pickups, some vials, some adrenaline, sparse ammo (two per weapon), three multi-directional jump pads and hopefully FLOW. It is fully pathed for bot play and I suggest 4-8 players.

Screenshots:







You find more screenshots and more on construction principles on my homepage. In order to foster discussion, please give feedback directly in this thread.

Credits: Based on good advice in the forum threads Which maps do you like for their FLOW ??? and What makes a good Deathmatch map?

Original music "Taiko Overtone Quartet" by ON ENSEMBLE, used according to its Creative Commons License

Textures "bricklined9" and "basemetal2" from "HourIndusX", "grint" from "HourPitores" by Hourences, used with kind permission.

Homepage: http://purl.oclc.org/NET/advman/maps/

Download: Not available any more.

[ThunderTom]

Dl-d. Trying it out now. Will post back in a sec.

[Richyb]

Hey man good to see you are working on layout first ill post back once ive looked at it.

[ThunderTom]

First things first: This map has potential.
Wide hallways, also high enough for double jumping and dodging.
Nice layout. I'd keep it as clean as possible.
Bots do their job well (I think, but I suck at UT, so don't take my word for it )
As far as flow is concerned, I think the flow is good. I could jump from one walkway to another, no problem! I really like that. I also didn't get stuck behind walls, when running backwards. This is why I said earlier to keep it as clean as possible.

Mainly I only have one issue with this map: I can't get to the higher levels easily enough. I really had to search for area's with jumppads to get to some bot who's kicking my ass on the 3rd floor. In my opinion, when I see a bot / player, I don't want to search for a way to get him.

Hope these images will help as well.




Nice work. Maybe I'll post back later!

[eviL<3]

Nice review, i have to disagree about the Reaching of the Levels though, try Shieldjumping

I would like to see a Lift in this Map!

[ThunderTom]

Originally posted by eviL<3
Nice review, i have to disagree about the Reaching of the Levels though, try Shieldjumping

I would like to see a Lift in this Map!

Hmm, I can't pull out a shield jump that fast. I want to get there the easy way. IMO you might only have to use a shieldjump when trying to reach a superweapon or 100a. But maybe I'm just an UT2k4 noob.

About the lift: True! That might also help when trying to reach the upper levels. For instance the lift could go to level 2, but when liftjumping you could reach lvl 3 as well. You also have more influence on where you want to go on the 3rd floor. With jumppads it's more or less a set path.

[advman]

Originally posted by ThunderTom
Bots do their job well (I think, but I suck at UT, so don't take my word for it )

Haha, so do I

Mainly I only have one issue with this map: I can't get to the higher levels easily enough.

What exactly is the problem?

• [a]Getting from bottom floor to middle?[b]From middle to top?[c]Or only from bottom to top?

If the problem is mainly (c): is it ok if I keep the current jump pads and ramps, and add jump pads or lifts in areas "pink" and "green"?

Hope these images will help as well

• Regarding bumping your head (first shot): I wanted to make the rooms higher anyway, most probably by reducing the ceiling/floor distance from 256 (now) to 128.
  
• Second image. Yes, that's the only way from this side. Other ways are via jump pad from room 24 to 01 (and then all the way across, or from 11 the ramp via 09 up to 02 and then through 03 to 05 (which is, from where you took the shot).
  
  Visual indicators for the jump pads will be included. In fact they were in the pads that I ripped from DM-Phobos2, but they pointed into the wrong direction and I could not figure out in an instance, how direction was specified. Thus I removed them
  
• Regarding your comment "Got one already" in image 3: do you feel that the Assault gun should be left out? Hmm ... I always like to have two of them and normally your enemies already have a better weapon when you kill them.
  
• In image 4 you say "Nice". Is that it, or did I miss something. What detail exactly do you mean?
  
• I will see what I can do about image 5

[ThunderTom]

Originally posted by advman
Haha, so do I

• I mosly have trouble getting to level 3. Also as I stated earlier I find jumppads very directive. You can't change where you're heading easily. Liftjumping offers more variation in that way IMO
• About the visuals: That's what I was hoping for.
• Regarding the Assault rifle; Two is better ofcourse. But I'd rather have a shockrifle!
• About Image4; I just liked the layout. That's it.

[Richyb]

How big are your jump pads?: I would also like to know what theme map this is?

[Mr.suicide__]

Originally posted by Richyb
I would also like to know what theme map this is?

There is no theme, its a layout to see if the map has good gameplay. once gamplay has been fixed and have all the ramps and jumpads/lifts the way he wants it he will put in eye candy.

[J112]

Hmm not bad.

The layout has some potential but for me its a little bit to open In some places. It kept me entertained for a good period of time although i did find myself searching for the players instead of them always being in your face ( Im a tight DM guy myself )

I'd try to put a roof of some kind on the top of the buildings outside because it would create a good effect.

Overall I think that the weapon placement and ammo ammount/location is pretty damn good but there's some flack ammo in there but i couldn't find the cannon, sos if i missed it

Hope that helps

[Richyb]

There is no theme, its a layout to see if the map has good gameplay. once gamplay has been fixed and have all the ramps and jumpads/lifts the way he wants it he will put in eye candy

I understand that but i all ways have a theme in mind other wise hes mapping blind, thats no good for any one.

[Mr.suicide__]

Oh...

[Richyb]

The layout has some potential but for me its a little bit to open In some places. It kept me entertained for a good period of time although i did find myself searching for the players instead of them always being in your face ( Im a tight DM guy myself

I second that but i did notic you built it in blue does this mean theres going to be a huge out side part like sweet death?

[advman]

Originally posted by ThunderTom
I mosly have trouble getting to level 3. Also as I stated earlier I find jumppads very directive. You can't change where you're heading easily. Liftjumping offers more variation in that way IMO

OK, I'll do something about getting to level 3, maybe another jump pad, maybe a lift, depends on what fits better. Intuitively I'd prefer a lift because some people like liftjumping.

[advman]

Originally posted by J112
... for me its a little bit to open In some places.

Can you refer to those places by the numbers in the floorplans above, e.g. "the view from 08 through 03 to the ramp in the green area should be blocked" or something like that. Would help a good deal.

It kept me entertained for a good period of time although i did find myself searching for the players instead of them always being in your face ( Im a tight DM guy myself )

Hmm ... why did you have to search? Wouldn't you have to search even more if the layout were less "open"? I'm still not sure if I understand what you really mean. Could you name a retail or CBP map that feels like what you look for?

I'd try to put a roof of some kind on the top of the buildings outside because it would create a good effect.

Most likely there will be some kind of enclosure made of glass. The skybox I have waiting for it is pretty impressive, thus I'll need glass to show it off.

... but there's some flack ammo in there but i couldn't find the cannon, sos if i missed it

Middle level, room 20, just in the densest part, where it is most effective

[advman]

Originally posted by Richyb
I understand that but i all ways have a theme in mind other wise hes mapping blind, thats no good for any one.

I do have a theme in mind, I just did not expose it yet

I second that but i did notic you built it in blue does this mean theres going to be a huge out side part like sweet death? [/b]

Don't know why you associate the color blue with huge outdoor spaces, but, no, there will be no outdoor spaces at all. Layoutwise this is it. I may make some adjustments, mostly depending on what more feedback I get, but this time the idea is, to please the hardcore crowd. I will use static meshes, but not in a way that they could interfere with gameplay.

Some more words about the theme. The map is to be called "DM-Noxious-Fumes". Most likely it will be rundown industrial/sci-fi. Basically at the moment I have not decided if I use corroded metal as the main textures, or if I go for stone.

I'd prefer stone, but the problem with stone is, that, in order to fit with the skybox, it would have to be a shade of blue. Blue in the environment, otoh, may give an unfair advantage to the blue team in TDM. Any opinions on blue as the main color? Some medium blue like the lighter one in this forum, washed down, dirty, with metal trimmings, greenishly corroded?

Any opinion on blue and TDM? Anyone?

[J112]

I would have to say DM-1on1-Idoma and DM-1on1-Spirit for the type of "Gameplay" I look for in this style of map(but they are 1on1's :P. I have no problem with open spaces if the theme allows it E.G. a map like DM-Rrajigar has a theme that allows open spaces because caves are open and . . well . . cavernous. In general, maps with a style such as this for a DM are cramped, if ya get what i mean

My ideal DM is cramped and medium sized. I like to play Either Dom, CTF or ONS if I want any larger spaces.

I like the Idea of Glass cover "I love glass in maps "

Sorry that i missed the flack cannon but it seemed pretty hidden

hope that helps

[Bier]

Looks good.

But there's one big thing I would defenitely change:

E. g. SHOCK + SNIPER should be located on the lower levels.

E. g. weapons like RL & FLAK should be located on top.

[advman]

Originally posted by J112
I would have to say DM-1on1-Idoma and DM-1on1-Spirit for the type of "Gameplay" I look for in this style of map

I'll have another look at them to see where the structural differences are. I may have to make some changes anyway to make the top floor more accessible.

[advman]

Originally posted by Bier
... there's one big thing I would defenitely change:

E. g. SHOCK + SNIPER should be located on the lower levels.

E. g. weapons like RL & FLAK should be located on top.

Hmm ... tewicc already mentioned that in another thread. I didn't think of it as a hard rule though. I'll try it and do some shuffling around. We'll see.

[Bier]

I wouldnt call it a rule but usually maps have either a shock low and sniper high or the direct opposite

Or both low.

[advman]

Just a little progress report in case you care

Currently the three most prominent issues are accessability of the top level, non-intuitive jump pads and weapon placement.

After quite some experiments with combinations of lifts and ramps I have decided for alpha2 to stick with jump pads, but with special ones. Basically they are indicated by a mesh, but actually have jump pad actors on all sides. The idea is, that when you approach the jump pad from any side, it will propel you in the direction of your movement. So on one spot you actually have 4-6 jump pads. The bots like the idea and it should fix issues one and two. We'll see if this makes the map too bouncy. It positively accelerates gameplay, though.

Issue three is, that hitscan weapons should be placed at the lower level and flak/rocket launcher at the top. I've changed that as well.

At the moment I redesign the atrium structure to facilitate top-down movement. Basically it should always be possible to drop down one level. The blue area is already changed, the red area comes next. I am not sure what to do with green and pink, though. Probably I keep pink being more interior-style (quite like gameplay there, especially the nasty surprises when you go for the health in the basement). Green needs to be fleshed out more, though. It's a bit lifeless there.

Other experiments I've done, were with textures. The skybox I already have, suggests that stone, if used at all, should be of a light to middle blue/cyan. I have tried to recolor some retail textures and found, that the blue's interaction with colored light is horrible. Nothing I haven't already read in one of Gui's comments to some map a long time ago, but hey, you have to try it always yourself

I'll invest some more time, but most likely this means, that the map will use a metal or shiptech theme, with humanoid architecture still being an option.

[Richyb]

I even got an invitation for a mod project. I had to decline, but I do feel honored.

Hi ad what mod was you asked to work on. Its a shame you said no you are real good at eye candy and stuff and i like your site man real cool. On to your map sound good what you just said when will you update your download so we can get the update

[advman]

Originally posted by Richyb
Hi ad what mod was you asked to work on. Its a shame you said no you are real good at eye candy and stuff and i like your site man real cool. On to your map sound good what you just said when will you update your download so we can get the update

Something in the American civil war. They need lots of outdoor maps

Thanks for your interest. I guess alpha2 will be ready at the end of this week, probably early next. At the moment I am a little low on time.

[Richyb]

Something in the American civil war. They need lots of outdoor maps

Cool must of the mod teams that work on civil war type stuff are realy good so you must have inpressed them alot nice one. I cant beleive you turned them down O yea is that a pic of you on your web site top of paging holding some think. Im nozy i ask every think

[meKilgore]

You should listen well to ThunderTom.

If a player has to run all over the map to reach another level, then that's mucking with the flow.

Flow is about continuous movement that draws the player through the map. Weapon and ammo placement and jumppads are located in places that a player would expect it to be.

For instance, if you have a room, with a balcony from a second floor above, then the player below should have close access to the balcony by jumppad or lift. He shouldn't have to run out the room through another room, to yet another room to hit a jumppad or lift.

Work the map so people can easily navigate, I'm not saying easily move (that would be nice though), but easily navigate. I downloaded the map and will give it more time and thought than I normally would seeing both the mature approach you have taken to the subject and how much work you have put into making this thread.



O.K. I ran through it once with some bots. Just ignore what I said above, except for the part about listening to ThunderTom. So I'll just make a couple quick remarks here and then post more later.

I think the layout is a significant improvement over SweatDeath. I know SweatDeath is its own map, but I think this map flows much much better than SweetDeath. If you put as much work into this map as you did SweetDeath, this map should turn out to be a damn good deathmatch map, in fact this map should rock.

At this early point, I want to strongly urge you not to completely cover the walls with staticmeshes. The bots and I were doing some crazy walldodging in there.

I know your focusing on the layout right now, but the jumppads are going to need work. I think I now understand what ThunderTom was speaking of (though I can't speak for him). With your comment that the jumppads have more than one jumpspot, I noticed you angled the jumppad emitter in a manner that would suggest the direction the player will be boosted.

I've noticed some of the jumps are not in the direction I would have assumed based on the direction the corners of the emitters are facing (assuming that is the role of the emitter).

I think you should devise a better way to indicated direction. I suggest working on a floor texture with arrows, circles or lines, that can go around the jumppads. Also, are you sure you want jumppads that big, or are you planning on scaling them to fit better with the surrounding architecture?

Also, I don't like where the shock rifle is located.

And the last thing I will mention here, is that the map needs to be better optimized (have you done any?). In some parts of the map, the game slowed to a crawl, and you haven't even place meshes yet.

[Xaero*nz]

that actually LOOKS quite cool... i can see definite potential in a modern concrete, clean like aesthetic. the lighting looks really cool with just the straight bsp.

see: frank lloyd wright - fallingwater

combines brick with large concrete elements...
or alot of modernist architecture...
lol this is an unusual perspective from an architecture student/ut player/mapper >_<

[ThunderTom]

Originally posted by Xaero*nz
that actually LOOKS quite cool... i can see definite potential in a modern concrete, clean like aesthetic. the lighting looks really cool with just the straight bsp.

That is nice.

[advman]

Originally posted by Xaero*nz
see: frank lloyd wright - fallingwater

Haha, cool

I doubt though, that FLW would have built where my map will be located. Just wait for my skybox