ToEE had a pretty quick development cycle...

ellonaias · 09-14-2003, 02:34 AM

Like twenty months or something, right? So those Troika guys should be able to crank out a high-quality sequel by next Fall if they get cracking on it on Monday! From the screenshots I would say there is no need to change the engine. (Hopefully Troika didn't pull a NWN and code themselves into any kind of corner.) But I digress...

*cracks whip*

NO TIME OFF! You guys are just too good and the world needs your games. Oh and by the way I have a small wishlist: subraces. Really, that's it. I have a deep gnome paladin character (charisma penalty, I scoff at thee) that I have been unable to bring on any adventure since IWD2. Which, incidentally, I thought was fun.

09-14-2003, 02:36 AM

Probably because you got your Deep Gnome Pally.

ellonaias · 09-14-2003, 02:40 AM

That was definitely part of it. With all of the subraces there were lots of great and unusual character options. Ghostwise halfling 15 druid/ 15 barbarian (basically a Ghostwise shaman) was another favorite.

But I also enjoyed the relative complexity of the villains, and even though it was a dungeon crawl I found myself into much of the story. Linear, which is not my favorite, but at least it was well-done linear.

But that is really just sort of an aside. Mostly this thread aims to *intimidate* the troika gang into getting right back to work on another greyhawk game.

Okay, that isn't really the underlying meta-point, it's just a bad D & D joke (are there any good D& D jokes, by the way?). The underlying meta-point is that the combination of my anticipation of this game and four months of constant sleep deprivation (I have a four month old daughter who is entirely too playful and cute at 4:30 every morning) is making me a little crazy. And I really am hoping for a sequel. As soon as possible after I finish the game. And then they can just go ahead and keep on making them. If only I had the money to just contract with them personally. Bill Gates really should be the happiest nerd on the planet. I get the feeling he's not, though--could be the lack of a soul.

09-14-2003, 02:44 AM

According to Tim Cain the other night (see chat link on first page of the TOEE website) Atari has not yet approached them about a sequel. Hopefully TOEE does well enough that they will lock Troika in quickly, as TC indicated they have other offers to consider as well once they finish all their TOEE obligations and give the team some time off.

Banedir · 09-14-2003, 12:20 PM

They should make a sequel anyway and burn it onto CDs in their basements.

Publisher? We don't need no stinkin' publisher!

*realising where he is* Uh, I mean...go Atari...

09-14-2003, 12:30 PM

You said it yourself: they made this game in twenty or so months. They're horribly, horribly tired, you know. Cut them some slack!

09-14-2003, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sarkus
According to Tim Cain the other night (see chat link on first page of the TOEE website) Atari has not yet approached them about a sequel. Hopefully TOEE does well enough that they will lock Troika in quickly, as TC indicated they have other offers to consider as well once they finish all their TOEE obligations and give the team some time off.

What you said is true, but is also a negotiation ploy.

Game is good -- game sells well.

Game sells well -- publisher wants sequel.

Troika says, "We would really like to but we have other offers."

Publisher says "we will give you a better deal."

Sequel made.

09-14-2003, 01:23 PM

well, you have to remember the engine was already complete when Atari contacted them. All they had to do at that point was add content. And they had a fully-flesh out construction plan already made out for them in the form of the ToEE module. So the relatively short development time is understandable I think.

Banedir · 09-14-2003, 01:31 PM

Yeah, and the sequel should be even easier, as they have more modules to use and the entire engine and a large amount of content already in place

09-14-2003, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tpigeon
What you said is true, but is also a negotiation ploy.

Game is good -- game sells well.

Game sells well -- publisher wants sequel.

Troika says, "We would really like to but we have other offers."

Publisher says "we will give you a better deal."

Sequel made.

True, but sometimes publisher's take their time to make a decision and developers move on in the meantime. If Atari waits until after Christmas, for example, Troika may have already moved on with the TOEE development team. Comments from Tim Cain in the past have indicated that there are limits to how big he'd like Troika to get, so it's not as simple as just hiring another team.

09-14-2003, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sarkus
Comments from Tim Cain in the past have indicated that there are limits to how big he'd like Troika to get, so it's not as simple as just hiring another team.

3 teams max, that's what Tim's said. He doesn't want to loose the ability to actually work hands-on with the games and step back as top dog and boss-man. I don't blame him.

09-14-2003, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sarkus
True, but sometimes publisher's take their time to make a decision and developers move on in the meantime. If Atari waits until after Christmas, for example, Troika may have already moved on with the TOEE development team. Comments from Tim Cain in the past have indicated that there are limits to how big he'd like Troika to get, so it's not as simple as just hiring another team.

I think we know within 2 weeks if there will be a sequel. There is no way a sequel doesn't get done given good sales of this product. It is just too easy. You have content (any number of modules), the engine, and all the momentum from TOEE on the marketing side, including a large built-in user base. From Troika's point of view, TOEE sequel makes them more money faster than almost any other project they can take on and they can negotiate a much better take with the publisher than with a new game. From a publisher's point of view, there is much less risk and fewer expenses by releasing a sequel than starting a whole new game.

09-14-2003, 07:08 PM

Why bother with a sequel? Why not make a new game based on an old campaign -- I'm voting for Dark Sun... ooh, the memories of Wake of the Ravager...

Personally, I'm kinda sick of sequels. The road from BG1 to Throne of Bhaal was long and tedius. Besides, it makes more financial sense to go for a new storyline altogether -- that way, when it's released in two years or so, people new to the game won't say, "Hey, cool game! Too bad I don't have enough money to buy the first one, and look at those graphics! It wasn't even in 3D!"

Just a thought.

09-14-2003, 07:21 PM

I like the idea of doing the modules. There's enough room for the team to be creative, and enough of a framework to still produce a recognizable game.

Do them all! I'll buy them.

ellonaias · 09-14-2003, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Txiasaeia
Why bother with a sequel? Why not make a new game based on an old campaign -- I'm voting for Dark Sun... ooh, the memories of Wake of the Ravager...

Personally, I'm kinda sick of sequels. The road from BG1 to Throne of Bhaal was long and tedius. Besides, it makes more financial sense to go for a new storyline altogether -- that way, when it's released in two years or so, people new to the game won't say, "Hey, cool game! Too bad I don't have enough money to buy the first one, and look at those graphics! It wasn't even in 3D!"

Just a thought.

Look at the graphics? From the screenshots I've seen, they are sweet. Lack of skin color variation is a minor disappointment, but the game is one of the prettiest I've ever seen.

Sequels for me, please. Serve 'em up.

I actually agree with your assessment of BG2 and ESPECIALLY ToB. SoA was not a bad game, but I found it less compelling than BG1/ToSC. ToB was just plain LAME in my opinion. The only cool thing about it was the wild mage. Talk about a disappointing end to a series in which I had invested a lot of time.

Venn · 09-15-2003, 12:00 AM

Please let there be sequels... if only cause I miss the glorious days of the Gold-Box games where you had the same party and saw them grow over 3/4 games... to wicked XP levels... Dark Queen of Krynn Level 36 Knight of the Crown... ahhhhhh *orgasms*

Man I need a Dragonlance series of games... that's special! No more FR ****, please!

troika_hnguyen · 09-15-2003, 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Venn
Please let there be sequels... if only cause I miss the glorious days of the Gold-Box games where you had the same party and saw them grow over 3/4 games... to wicked XP levels... Dark Queen of Krynn Level 36 Knight of the Crown... ahhhhhh *orgasms*

Man I need a Dragonlance series of games... that's special! No more FR ****, please!

[OT]

i picked up the new (?) Dragonlance D20 sourcebook the other day! i didn't even know it was coming out, so it was kind of pleasant surprise.

...haven't really had a chance to go thru it but i hope it's good. i sincerely hope they aren't assuming campaigns to be played in that dumb "Age of Mortals" thing...

09-15-2003, 01:13 AM

Are developers allowed to post OT?

Chris Woods · 09-15-2003, 02:09 AM

Not in threads demanding a sequel. The only developer posts allowed here are "We expect the sequel to be out in about 14 days."

Venn · 09-15-2003, 02:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by troika_hnguyen
[OT]

i picked up the new (?) Dragonlance D20 sourcebook the other day! i didn't even know it was coming out, so it was kind of pleasant surprise. ...haven't really had a chance to go thru it but i hope it's good. i sincerely hope they aren't assuming campaigns to be played in that dumb "Age of Mortals" thing...

Yeah I stopped following the DL timeline after the War of the Lance. So I actually have no idea what the Age of Mortals is but I hope it comes after that.

PS: ~~~youuuuuuu willllll maaaaake a deeeeeeeeeee elllllllllllllll gaaaaaaaame~~~

MoonDancer · 09-15-2003, 09:12 AM

Yep , Dragon Lance based game might be fun but I rather prefer story about Ravenloft or Planscape

Raven_WindSong · 09-15-2003, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MoonDancer
Yep , Dragon Lance based game might be fun but I rather prefer story about Ravenloft or Planscape

Having very little PnP experience I have always longed to play in the Ravenloft setting. *sighs*

Venn · 09-15-2003, 09:21 AM

Yeah my choice would be RL first, then DL.
I thought a while ago that would be impossible... of course I never even considered a Greyhawk game so there might still be hope.

ellonaias · 09-15-2003, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chris Woods
Not in threads demanding a sequel. The only developer posts allowed here are "We expect the sequel to be out in about 14 days."

That's what I'm talking about. Actually, 2 months would be perfect for me, since I no longer have the freedom to spend seven straight days working my way through a game. 2 months--that sounds reasonable, right? Troika?

Hawkstrike · 09-15-2003, 10:03 AM

I could handle Ravenloft if and only if it was the original I6 module.

Dragonlance ... meh ... perhaps. I'm not a fan of the later versions of the setting.

Mostly what I'd like to see is more Greyhawk.

09-16-2003, 06:09 PM

The new DL campaign book...
found it to be rather crappy, myself.
Theres quite a bit of backpedalling and trying to work that whole age of mortals thing in.

The player races are wacky. A lot of them have ECLs, and most have a penalty to wisdom. (which explains a lot about the DL setting). The put the Baaz and Kapak draconians in as possible player races, but they have so many special abilities, its fairly ridiculous.

The only really cool thing is the mystic class. Spontaneous divine casters like sorcerers. Get clerics BAB, and saves, sorcerers spell progression and spells known, and a single domain. They have a couple exclusive domains to chose from.

09-14-2003, 02:34 AM	#1
ellonaias Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 88	ToEE had a pretty quick development cycle... Like twenty months or something, right? So those Troika guys should be able to crank out a high-quality sequel by next Fall if they get cracking on it on Monday! From the screenshots I would say there is no need to change the engine. (Hopefully Troika didn't pull a NWN and code themselves into any kind of corner.) But I digress... cracks whip NO TIME OFF! You guys are just too good and the world needs your games. Oh and by the way I have a small wishlist: subraces. Really, that's it. I have a deep gnome paladin character (charisma penalty, I scoff at thee) that I have been unable to bring on any adventure since IWD2. Which, incidentally, I thought was fun.

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09-14-2003, 02:36 AM	#2
Dromin Guest Posts: n/a	Probably because you got your Deep Gnome Pally.

09-14-2003, 02:40 AM	#3
ellonaias Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 88	That was definitely part of it. With all of the subraces there were lots of great and unusual character options. Ghostwise halfling 15 druid/ 15 barbarian (basically a Ghostwise shaman) was another favorite. But I also enjoyed the relative complexity of the villains, and even though it was a dungeon crawl I found myself into much of the story. Linear, which is not my favorite, but at least it was well-done linear. But that is really just sort of an aside. Mostly this thread aims to intimidate the troika gang into getting right back to work on another greyhawk game. Okay, that isn't really the underlying meta-point, it's just a bad D & D joke (are there any good D& D jokes, by the way?). The underlying meta-point is that the combination of my anticipation of this game and four months of constant sleep deprivation (I have a four month old daughter who is entirely too playful and cute at 4:30 every morning) is making me a little crazy. And I really am hoping for a sequel. As soon as possible after I finish the game. And then they can just go ahead and keep on making them. If only I had the money to just contract with them personally. Bill Gates really should be the happiest nerd on the planet. I get the feeling he's not, though--could be the lack of a soul.

09-14-2003, 02:44 AM	#4
Sarkus Guest Posts: n/a	According to Tim Cain the other night (see chat link on first page of the TOEE website) Atari has not yet approached them about a sequel. Hopefully TOEE does well enough that they will lock Troika in quickly, as TC indicated they have other offers to consider as well once they finish all their TOEE obligations and give the team some time off.

09-14-2003, 12:20 PM	#5
Banedir Community Veteran Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 586	They should make a sequel anyway and burn it onto CDs in their basements. Publisher? We don't need no stinkin' publisher! realising where he is Uh, I mean...go Atari...

09-14-2003, 12:30 PM	#6
Spazmo Guest Posts: n/a	You said it yourself: they made this game in twenty or so months. They're horribly, horribly tired, you know. Cut them some slack!

09-14-2003, 01:23 PM	#8
Vaeron Guest Posts: n/a	well, you have to remember the engine was already complete when Atari contacted them. All they had to do at that point was add content. And they had a fully-flesh out construction plan already made out for them in the form of the ToEE module. So the relatively short development time is understandable I think.

09-14-2003, 01:31 PM	#9
Banedir Community Veteran Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 586	Yeah, and the sequel should be even easier, as they have more modules to use and the entire engine and a large amount of content already in place

09-14-2003, 07:08 PM	#13
Txiasaeia Guest Posts: n/a	Why bother with a sequel? Why not make a new game based on an old campaign -- I'm voting for Dark Sun... ooh, the memories of Wake of the Ravager... Personally, I'm kinda sick of sequels. The road from BG1 to Throne of Bhaal was long and tedius. Besides, it makes more financial sense to go for a new storyline altogether -- that way, when it's released in two years or so, people new to the game won't say, "Hey, cool game! Too bad I don't have enough money to buy the first one, and look at those graphics! It wasn't even in 3D!" Just a thought.

09-14-2003, 07:21 PM	#14
Dromin Guest Posts: n/a	I like the idea of doing the modules. There's enough room for the team to be creative, and enough of a framework to still produce a recognizable game. Do them all! I'll buy them.

09-15-2003, 12:00 AM	#16
Venn Community Veteran Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 263	Please let there be sequels... if only cause I miss the glorious days of the Gold-Box games where you had the same party and saw them grow over 3/4 games... to wicked XP levels... Dark Queen of Krynn Level 36 Knight of the Crown... ahhhhhh orgasms Man I need a Dragonlance series of games... that's special! No more FR ****, please!

09-15-2003, 01:13 AM	#18
Dromin Guest Posts: n/a	Are developers allowed to post OT?

09-15-2003, 02:09 AM	#19
Chris Woods New Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 26	Not in threads demanding a sequel. The only developer posts allowed here are "We expect the sequel to be out in about 14 days."

09-15-2003, 09:12 AM	#21
MoonDancer New Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 8	Yep , Dragon Lance based game might be fun but I rather prefer story about Ravenloft or Planscape

09-15-2003, 09:21 AM	#23
Venn Community Veteran Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 263	Yeah my choice would be RL first, then DL. I thought a while ago that would be impossible... of course I never even considered a Greyhawk game so there might still be hope.

09-15-2003, 10:03 AM	#25
Hawkstrike D&D Gamer Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 567	I could handle Ravenloft if and only if it was the original I6 module. Dragonlance ... meh ... perhaps. I'm not a fan of the later versions of the setting. Mostly what I'd like to see is more Greyhawk.

09-16-2003, 06:09 PM	#26
kvossler Guest Posts: n/a	The new DL campaign book... found it to be rather crappy, myself. Theres quite a bit of backpedalling and trying to work that whole age of mortals thing in. The player races are wacky. A lot of them have ECLs, and most have a penalty to wisdom. (which explains a lot about the DL setting). The put the Baaz and Kapak draconians in as possible player races, but they have so many special abilities, its fairly ridiculous. The only really cool thing is the mystic class. Spontaneous divine casters like sorcerers. Get clerics BAB, and saves, sorcerers spell progression and spells known, and a single domain. They have a couple exclusive domains to chose from.