Russian Snipers

[Toonboy]

In the first patch I would like to see something done to balance out this unit. In my opinion they are far too over powering in the early game especially on small maps. In a competitive 1v1 or 2v2, (which is basically two 1v1's) there is no real way to stop this type of rush. Because there isn't the time to build up a counter, which is much higher up the tech tree, I think the researching of this tech should be moved to another building e.g. engineering or arty.

[Valdarez]

Sure there is.... build 1 Infantry HQ, then a Mechanised HQ, then 2 standard Inantry units, and then 2 half tracks units. This all costs about the same as building the russian snipers and it will stop any russian sniper rush on the normal game settings.

The key here is that Snipers can't do jack against the half-tracks.

Be sure to explore all posibilities before you say the game is unbalanced.

Although I do agree, something this powerful should be found as an upgrade in the Artillery or Mortar buildings.

[Tomfan]

[Toonboy]

I don't know what games your playing in but, the cost involved in building a inf hq, mech hq, 2 half tracks, and 2 infantry. ( a cost of 850 gold). let alone the time doesn't make sense. A Russian player can out mass you before you can set up a defence like that (at a lesser cost I might add). On the smaller maps with the one supply depo and inf hq can have supply lines just out side your corps hq and can have 2, maybe 3, sniper divisions attacking before you can get your halftracks out.

Another possiblity for balancing might be to increase the research cost of the sniper tech and increase the length of time for research.

[Valdarez]

Please… you’re going to make me do the math now?

Sniper Rush Build
$ 250 – 1 Infantry HQ
$ 250 – 1 Infantry HQ
$ 100 – Sniper Tech
$ 50 – 1 Infantry Unit (created prior to sniper tech being complete)
$ 375 – 5 Sniper Units
--------------------------
$1025 – Total

Defense Build
$ 250 – 1 Infantry HQ
$ 300 – 1 Mechanized HQ
$ 100 – 2 Infantry Units (let them get entrenched)
$ 200 – 2 Halftrack Units
-------------------------------
$ 850 – Total

Now tell me, seriously, which is cheaper??? Numbers don’t lie, but feel free to let me know if the math is wrong.

The defense build is just to defend. If you create another Halftrack unit, at the cost of $100, and another Infantry unit, at the cost of $50, that’s still only $1000. 3 Halftracks and 3 Infantry Units will tear a whole into 6 Sniper Units (or the initial 5-1 combo listed above).

With the above build, I still try to take the towns (remember he doesn’t start building until the sniper tech is complete). I can usually take 2, maybe 3 at the most. A Sniper Rusher will be able to take them back, and you have to be careful so you don’t lose your units.

So, as you see it can be done if you know how to do it.

However, as stated before, it is a HUGE advantage, especially when playing against inexperienced players. The sniper tech should be placed on another building such as the Artillery (even increasing it to $150 would not be enough to stop people from using it if it remains on the Main HQ).

As a general rule, the 320 map is just too small. I don't even play it. Instead, for 2 vs 2, stick with the 384 x 384 map.

Good luck!

[Toonboy]

The build order that you gave isn't really one that I've seen used as far as a sniper rush, speed is key so most players I've seen that use this skip the second hq and push hard and fast right off the bat. Again I'm talking about the small maps and I would obviously do a different build order for a larger game where a rush would be unlikely to succeed and one has to consider your income for the longer game.

1 inf hq ...250
sniper tech...100
6 sniper divisions...450

for a grand total of 800

like I said earlier because snipers are so overpowering on the small maps I just need to move in on you with a group of 6 and you don't have much of a chance. Even with entrenchment the infantry divisons will fall or route in the first shot. Which would leave you with the halftracks and at a 3 to 1 ratio. I'm not saying that it would be a cake walk but if given the choice of what side to be on I'll take the infantry. If playing with Konev the russian player has Maskirovka general power available to them in addition to the infantry to deal with the halfs. And most players do because of the carpet bombing power.

[Valdarez]

What you fail to take into consideration is that while they are rushing you, you are still generating money. Thus, during the rush, you can usually get another halftrack down, making it 3, and possibly another infantry unit.

I'm online a lot and use the same nick that I am posting with in this forum. Find me there, and try to rush me. 9 out of 10 times it will fail. In fact, I make it a point to play players that try this approach because it's a cheap way to kill new players.

[blackj3sus]

i showed val that strat... he helped me develop it actually...
it works... come let us show u sometime...