Japan needs improvements for multiplayer

Toonboy · 02-10-2005, 12:13 PM

I was looking at the "Stats" for the online gaming community today, and I was suprised to see how low Japans stats have fallen. The Japs are only used like 6% of the time. I personally find them useless, with their lack of heavy armor and anti tank halftracks that are far below the standard. I was trying to think of ways to improve japans playablity while still keeping with the historical fact that they didn't have much as far as tanks. I came up with 2 suggestions.

First, give Japan an economic bonus similar to that of America's. Have the Corps HQ and infantry HQ's produce 5 extra cash. This would let the a Japanesse player get more units on to the field of battle to combat every other nations superior units. I would also slightly increase the speed of the Japanesse infantry, so they could keep up with a bit more with mech divisions and tankettes. This would allow a player to use infantry much more effectively in combination with other types of units.

Second, increase the # of tankettes in a regiment. You really can't make them too much stronger with out throwing balance off (as they really trash halftracks), but they do need more "staying power" vs anti tank halftracks. I think increasing the regiment size would do this.

Valdarez · 02-10-2005, 01:27 PM

I agree with the money, but even if you do that, it's still not enough. Playing a decent player in a 1v1 game with Japan is suiciadal. They need to have some of the same upgrades as other countries for their mechs, or they will remain useless.

In a Team based game on a decent sized map, the tankettes are, at best, annoying. They can come in attack quickly and then retreat, but can almost never finish off units. And once opposing countries get heavy tanks and artillery, then the tankettes are useless.

The only time I play Japan is if I am playing a newer player, or a player with a really low win %. It helps even out the battle by giving them a military strength advantage.

Toonboy · 02-10-2005, 04:35 PM

I think the money increase would help greatly for the 1v1. At least it would bring them inline with russia, and germany. (Now I say this assuming that the game does not go too long and stays with infantry.)

You are correct when talking about the tankettes... My suggestion to increase the unit size might let them stand up against anti tank mechs. IF the tankette could stand toe to toe with AT it would make Japan far more competitive durring the mid game stretch. With fast infantry for support one may have a chance to finish someone off early, before things shift to the real armor.

Another possible late game alteration would be to decrease the cost of air operations for Japan. (as the cost for an actual strike and the cost of the airbase). They may not beable to stand up on the front lines but it would make them very useful as a teammate, chipping away at the enemies economy.

What else would you suggest Vald???

Valdarez · 02-11-2005, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Toonboy
I think the money increase would help greatly for the 1v1. At least it would bring them inline with russia, and germany. (Now I say this assuming that the game does not go too long and stays with infantry.)

Agreed. That would help, but Japan would still need to be able to have some type of upgrade that would allow their tankettes or mech to be able to stand toe to toe with another players mechs. There's a deliciate balance between $$$ and military strength. Extra $$$ will only help at the beginning of a game if a country lacks the necessary military strength.

Quote:

Originally posted by Toonboy
You are correct when talking about the tankettes... My suggestion to increase the unit size might let them stand up against anti tank mechs. IF the tankette could stand toe to toe with AT it would make Japan far more competitive durring the mid game stretch. With fast infantry for support one may have a chance to finish someone off early, before things shift to the real armor.
[/b]

Even if they double the tankette regiment from 4 to 8, I do not believe that 6 tankettes could stand against 6 mechs. I might be wrong, but I know when I attacked 4 anti-tank mechs (not sure if they were upgraded), with 12 tankettes, that while I ended up destroying all the mechs, I lost 2 tankettes in the process. The tankettes just take damage to easily and end up dying too fast.

Quote:

Originally posted by Toonboy
Another possible late game alteration would be to decrease the cost of air operations for Japan. (as the cost for an actual strike and the cost of the airbase). They may not beable to stand up on the front lines but it would make them very useful as a teammate, chipping away at the enemies economy.
[/b]

This would only work in a really long game, and would not help out in a 2v2, or 3v3 game (small map) as these games are fast paced with battles being joined early, thus the games typically don't allow build orders that utilize air power.

Quote:

Originally posted by Toonboy
What else would you suggest Vald???
[/b]

Increased money would help, but I would rather see stronger units introduced. A mech or tankette upgrade to increase the defense/health of the units or some type of upgrade to increase their attack power.

Toonboy · 02-11-2005, 06:42 PM

Hmm Upgrading the tankette might be an option too. Although much testing would have to be done to work out a good balance. Tankettes are cheaper than mechs making them too tough in too great of numbers could be just as bad for over all game balance issues.

junwang0808 · 08-18-2006, 04:18 AM

you know what guys screw the dirty japz

dabeaverbuilder · 08-18-2006, 10:35 AM

For a Japanese company, Atari didn't do a good job of simulating Jap fanatics. Japanese infantry were famous for being high morale. It would have been easy to make Japan's infantry the same as the other countrys.

Why is Japan's infantry weaker against bullets than other infantry? It should be stronger! They had great resistance to pain because of their love of the emperor. There are examples of Japs getting shot seven times before dying.

Japanese were also used to marching a lot, so all japanese units should go faster!

Japanese were also famous fo using bayonets in order to save ammo. The Marines in the game have bayonets, so why not the Japs? Officers should have swords too! It wouldn't make much of a difference, but it would let Japanese attack entrenched enemies better. Also, because of their bayonets, Japanese regiments should require less upkeep to keep going.

Finally, Banzai Charge should cost less exp.

Still, even if all of these things were modded in, it wouldn't help Japan much in the middle game. Jap tankettes, tanks, and mechs are too weak. A infantry army in WW2 mode of A&A is easily able to kill a Jap mechanized army. Japan is pretty much only good for defence in a multiplayer game. But then again, they spent most of the war doing just that.

02-10-2005, 12:13 PM	#1
Toonboy New Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 35	Japan needs improvements for multiplayer I was looking at the "Stats" for the online gaming community today, and I was suprised to see how low Japans stats have fallen. The Japs are only used like 6% of the time. I personally find them useless, with their lack of heavy armor and anti tank halftracks that are far below the standard. I was trying to think of ways to improve japans playablity while still keeping with the historical fact that they didn't have much as far as tanks. I came up with 2 suggestions. First, give Japan an economic bonus similar to that of America's. Have the Corps HQ and infantry HQ's produce 5 extra cash. This would let the a Japanesse player get more units on to the field of battle to combat every other nations superior units. I would also slightly increase the speed of the Japanesse infantry, so they could keep up with a bit more with mech divisions and tankettes. This would allow a player to use infantry much more effectively in combination with other types of units. Second, increase the # of tankettes in a regiment. You really can't make them too much stronger with out throwing balance off (as they really trash halftracks), but they do need more "staying power" vs anti tank halftracks. I think increasing the regiment size would do this.

08-18-2006, 10:35 AM	#7
dabeaverbuilder Registered User Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 19	For a Japanese company, Atari didn't do a good job of simulating Jap fanatics. Japanese infantry were famous for being high morale. It would have been easy to make Japan's infantry the same as the other countrys. Why is Japan's infantry weaker against bullets than other infantry? It should be stronger! They had great resistance to pain because of their love of the emperor. There are examples of Japs getting shot seven times before dying. Japanese were also used to marching a lot, so all japanese units should go faster! Japanese were also famous fo using bayonets in order to save ammo. The Marines in the game have bayonets, so why not the Japs? Officers should have swords too! It wouldn't make much of a difference, but it would let Japanese attack entrenched enemies better. Also, because of their bayonets, Japanese regiments should require less upkeep to keep going. Finally, Banzai Charge should cost less exp. Still, even if all of these things were modded in, it wouldn't help Japan much in the middle game. Jap tankettes, tanks, and mechs are too weak. A infantry army in WW2 mode of A&A is easily able to kill a Jap mechanized army. Japan is pretty much only good for defence in a multiplayer game. But then again, they spent most of the war doing just that. Last edited by dabeaverbuilder; 08-27-2006 at 10:26 AM.

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02-10-2005, 01:27 PM	#2
Valdarez Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 184	I agree with the money, but even if you do that, it's still not enough. Playing a decent player in a 1v1 game with Japan is suiciadal. They need to have some of the same upgrades as other countries for their mechs, or they will remain useless. In a Team based game on a decent sized map, the tankettes are, at best, annoying. They can come in attack quickly and then retreat, but can almost never finish off units. And once opposing countries get heavy tanks and artillery, then the tankettes are useless. The only time I play Japan is if I am playing a newer player, or a player with a really low win %. It helps even out the battle by giving them a military strength advantage.

02-10-2005, 04:35 PM	#3
Toonboy New Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 35	I think the money increase would help greatly for the 1v1. At least it would bring them inline with russia, and germany. (Now I say this assuming that the game does not go too long and stays with infantry.) You are correct when talking about the tankettes... My suggestion to increase the unit size might let them stand up against anti tank mechs. IF the tankette could stand toe to toe with AT it would make Japan far more competitive durring the mid game stretch. With fast infantry for support one may have a chance to finish someone off early, before things shift to the real armor. Another possible late game alteration would be to decrease the cost of air operations for Japan. (as the cost for an actual strike and the cost of the airbase). They may not beable to stand up on the front lines but it would make them very useful as a teammate, chipping away at the enemies economy. What else would you suggest Vald???

02-11-2005, 06:42 PM	#5
Toonboy New Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 35	Hmm Upgrading the tankette might be an option too. Although much testing would have to be done to work out a good balance. Tankettes are cheaper than mechs making them too tough in too great of numbers could be just as bad for over all game balance issues.

08-18-2006, 04:18 AM	#6
junwang0808 Registered User Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 14	you know what guys screw the dirty japz