PETITION: NWN2: Removal of SecuROM

[KoE_Dae'Loki]

I get about double the FPS in NWN2 than I did in the Witcher.

AMD Live! 64 X2 Dual Core 4400+ Each CPU is about 2.4 Ghz
Nvidia Geforce 8800 GTS 640MB PCI express
2MB Corsair DDR2 RAM
Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate 32bit Edition

NWN2 ~38-45 FPS med graphics max view distance 4x AA.
Witcher ~15-23 FPS med graphics with 4x AA.

[kalniel]

Somethings not right with your witcher/drivers then. I get 40+ FPS with everything on max, with a much slower system than yours. But maybe take this to the Witcher forum It's not possible to run 4xAA with the Witcher though, it only supports 2x.

[KoE_Dae'Loki]

Originally Posted by kalniel

Somethings not right with your witcher/drivers then. I get 40+ FPS with everything on max, with a much slower system than yours. But maybe take this to the Witcher forum It's not possible to run 4xAA with the Witcher though, it only supports 2x.

Nvidia Control Panel>Force 4x AA.

I am running Nvidia Official 169.25 WHQL drivers, tried it with the new Omega 169.25 Vista Drivers, and I get about 40-45 FPS with the Witcher.

[lapinos]

you have vista, actually witcher got some problem it will be fix in 1.3. I'll be back here when 1.3 will be out, I will ask you again a bench, and surely you will notice the actual difference between the 2 games. this will be the difference I can notice under XP...

[crystallace1]

The More I read your replies Kalniel , the more you discuss me, The more people try to tell you that what you have and what they have is different the more you are set in stone that you are right. NOT every one is a computer genius, NOT every one can *make things work* around all the normal channels. Some of us actually need to have things simplified. Problem that your not looking at such as many went out bought a high end computer to run this trash, that Atari has not given much support for, Because of there security *ifs* this person does this or that illegally. Many spent thousands of dollars getting set up for this game and you have the ....... Well gull to tell people that they are still thief's and do not understand that poor ole Atari has problems yet they have set up OTHER games with out the one that caused them to change in the first place. Through all that, all you can do is degrade the ones that are still trying to get Atari's attention to fix the original . What part of , They cannot play the game at all, do you not understand ? I had to PAY to have my machine completely wiped because it was screwing up my Windows program . It interfered with other programs I had on my machine every day programs I seeked help from Atari and you know what?, NOT a single person got in contact with me since January of last year . Only a form letter telling me to wait till one had the time. Between you and BattleApple you have helped me make a decision that I will never buy another new game from this company . I will however keep up NWN1 . Its worth it. For it gives something that NWN2 can not . The ability to play with out invasion of a 200.00 + program that is needed to run a computer . Customers do not like being called a thief , they do not like ESPECIALLY if they are honest customers , like being treated as though there less then the dirt under the company's feet . When people say they have had enough of the insults , and threats You have lost the battle long before hand . That's what you have done here lost prospective customers and trust . When BattleApple pushed his comments about not following through I went back again and second time , sent in request for support . I have as yet to hear of any answer on that one so . Good bye , Hope you two enjoyed your , I am so much more intelligent and better then you are quest. The only thing You both have proven to me is that your Loyal to Atari , they should be thank full for that at least . Oh and by the way kalniel not every one lives in the UK , and Atari knew that when they made this game and its rights to each country . Looking for a cop out for them is lame ! Any ways Good bye ,

[X900BattleApple]

Originally Posted by crystallace1

When BattleApple pushed his comments about not following through I went back again and second time , sent in request for support . I have as yet to hear of any answer on that one so . Good bye , Hope you two enjoyed your , I am so much more intelligent and better then you are quest.

It was a legitimate suggestion and intended to help you. Over the past few months I did a large amount of work centered on:

1. Key titles which it may make sense to release source code on.
2. Documenting the tangle of mergers, purchases, and sell offs to try and determine exactly what properies are in Atari Incs. portfollio (I do not doubt that at this point they really aren't sure themselves regarding some of it).
3. Documenting a variety of ways that tech support could be improved and streamlined to make customers happier and reduce time/cost for Atari
4. Broker a deal with a CEO I know to bring various Atari titles to the casual gaming market (flash, pocket pc, pda, cell phone, etc.)
5. Make recommendations on titles that should receive a squel, and upon hearing about one that Atari agreed with me on actively culled experts on the game's subject matter to be free design advisers.
6. Bring to the light the abysmal handoff that occured once Infogrames sold Hasbro rights back to Hasbro which is a disaster for customers.

Unfortunately, after various discussions and agreements in principle with Atari's CEO he up and resigned. So, I am sorry if you perceive my input as something else, but you might want to consider that your perception isn't 100% right Good luck everyone.

[chaoscommencer]

Has anyone brought up the people who designed Half-Life and Counter-Strike. Steam is an incredible tool, that allows verification of purchase. For all of their games you must sign in to your online account, and then you can play as much as you like with no disk. Even their Portal game which is entirely single-player, must be played online. This forces verification without the problems of a disk in the drive and copy protection software. As someone said on the first page of this thread, all consumers of NWN2 must have a high-end machine to run it, and, thus, are most likely to have the internet already. Anyway, just a thought.

Anyway, X900BattleApple, do you read all the new threads that are posted, because there are a few threads that have not been responded to, including my own, and people like me need your advice in order to continue with the game, as it appears the problem I have is a software issue. Thanks for the help.

P.S. I'm sorry about coming into this conversation now. I didn't read the last pages when I posted this and did not realize this discussion had reverted to an argument. I do not mean for this post to be insulting and hope that it can be read with an open mind. Thank you.

[kalniel]

Originally Posted by KoE_Dae'Loki

Nvidia Control Panel>Force 4x AA.

Look at the game though - it only runs 2x even when you force it (on my computer at least - maybe you've around this somehow).

[X900BattleApple]

Originally Posted by chaoscommencer

Anyway, X900BattleApple, do you read all the new threads that are posted, because there are a few threads that have not been responded to, including my own, and people like me need your advice in order to continue with the game, as it appears the problem I have is a software issue. Thanks for the help.

P.S. I'm sorry about coming into this conversation now. I didn't read the last pages when I posted this and did not realize this discussion had reverted to an argument. I do not mean for this post to be insulting and hope that it can be read with an open mind. Thank you.

I don't. Not enough time, very busy with my job, and I worked at Atari and so while part of me wishes to help Atari and those who play its games, another part is a bit tired of hitting the proverbial head against the proverbial brick wall. I can try to do larger scale work, as posted above, and some other minor stuff, but I'm not that well versed in various issues for newer games, or that are very specific to the game / Vista versus more basic tech help.

Anyway, maybe I'll give the 'big stuff' above another go in 2008 once I muster enough energy to try. It's not easy to even get an ear, let alone effect change as happened when David up and left.

I'm fairly open minded, don't worry about. Some don't like me because there was a conversation way back about phone support and me suggesting they'd contacted the wrong dept. as Atari, Inc. has no phone support. Turns out they were contacting Atari Europe / Infogrames (which is *not* Atari, Inc.) which does have phone support. Given that these forums are U.S. run it didn't occur to me they were not contacting Atari Inc., nor to them that Atari Inc. is a totally different company from the one they contacted Old news, anyway gl to ya.

[farvardin]

SecuROM is a real pain for linux users who would legally play games using the "wine" emulator.
I've bought NWN 1 also because it was supporting a linux client, but I won't buy NWN 2 if it's windows only and clibbled with the securom annoyance.

[Novanensis]

Originally Posted by farvardin

SecuROM is a real pain for linux users who would legally play games using the "wine" emulator.
I've bought NWN 1 also because it was supporting a linux client, but I won't buy NWN 2 if it's windows only and clibbled with the securom annoyance.

As a previous NWV1 owner, I was surprised to discover that I needed to keep the DVD in the drive all the time while playing NWV2... Worse, I was a bit upset when I discovered that the game DVD was not recognized by my hardware . I had to wait for a firmware patch by the hardware vendor.

That's when I discovered about SecuROM. I actually felt a bit of an ignorant: it seems such a common thing around...

As a partial excuse to my ignorance I can state that I primarily use linux. The rare instance I have to use MS Windows, is indeed to play some game (like NWV 1), with some strange guilt feeling for the time stolen to work, family etc. In fact, when my workstation failed to read the game DVD, I felt like it was a sign I had to repent for my sin...

So, my point? I would gladly subscribe (on paper, digitally, whatever) this petition for the removal of SecuROM, and, while I am at it, for the issue of a Linux version of the game in a not too distant future...

[Sblade]

Congratulations, it seems finally people got tired of Securom. Or tired of NWN 2 because of this.

That does not give you the reason Mr. technical director, only proves your ears are a little closed.

Launch second XP and remove this doom for the sake of NWN 2.

[stoneequinox]

Originally Posted by X900BattleApple

How is it preventing legitimate customers from using the product exactly?

I can't run my copy!

"A required security module can not be activated. This program can not be executed."

That's the little message I payed $$$ to see.

[stoneequinox]

Originally Posted by X900BattleApple

it's not us you should be mad at for being unable to admit that SecuROM has compatibility problems

Oh. Thanks for clearing that issue up.

[Sblade]

Originally Posted by stoneequinox

I can't run my copy!

"A required security module can not be activated. This program can not be executed."

That's the little message I payed $$$ to see.

Have you tried my sticky FAQ at the support area?

http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums...d.php?t=605340

I oppose to Securom, this is the reason why I help with this DRM. I´m getting PM about supporting Securom.

a big NO
Bon weekend
Sblade

[Angora]

I Want you to remove the Securom protect system.

[stoneequinox]

Originally Posted by Sblade

Have you tried my sticky FAQ at the support area?

http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums...d.php?t=605340

I oppose to Securom, this is the reason why I help with this DRM. I´m getting PM about supporting Securom.

a big NO
Bon weekend
Sblade

I did look over it. I didn't find out what exactly was the problem though. I got the Direct2Drive.com version that has no CD. So I can't figure out what it is exactly that SecuRom doesn't like. I have been running it now by disabling a lot of processes, which I can deal with for now. SecurRom is lame, it does seem like a rootkit.

If I didn't know more about computers I would give up and never buy from this company again.

[kalniel]

Originally Posted by stoneequinox

If I didn't know more about computers I would give up and never buy from this company again.

Atari have stopped using securom now.

[Sblade]

Originally Posted by kalniel

Atari have stopped using securom now.

Only in new games, so we still make us be heard here until they remove it from NWN 2

[Sblade]

Stoneequinox are you running XP or Vista?

[stoneequinox]

Originally Posted by kalniel

Atari have stopped using securom now.

That's great. My game still has it.

[stoneequinox]

Originally Posted by Sblade

Stoneequinox are you running XP or Vista?

It's XP. I'm content to just use process explorer to narrow it down. I can usually play it without spending too much time. I'm starting to think it might be one of my old shell emulators that wasn't uninstalled correctly.

[Sblade]

Originally Posted by stoneequinox

It's XP. I'm content to just use process explorer to narrow it down. I can usually play it without spending too much time. I'm starting to think it might be one of my old shell emulators that wasn't uninstalled correctly.

Yeah, in very technical terms any weird RING0 (emulation always by definition of emulating hardware runs at RING0) application is considered emulation (if it is included in Securom blacklist) or debugger by Securom then you will see the infamous message

[ShadowX8m]

Just signing my name to the petition as well as a bit of a rant.

Sadly, it seems as if gaming companies using SecuROM just don't care that people that BUY their games can't play them, just so long as people that don't buy their games can't play them either. I think it's just downright irresponsible of companies to pass the buck on to SecuROM, telling gamers to email SecuROM with their problems, instead of taking responsibility for the problem themselves and forcing SecuROM to correct the problems it causes. Oh well, I guess it's easier to make money selling games that may not be playable (even if you meet or exceed the system requirements stated ON THE BOX), and rip off the consumer, than to sell games that might be copied. Games should come with a warning (WARNING: Protected by SecuROM and may not work your system!) so that we know which games not to buy...

ShadowX

[Windwalker037]

Originally Posted by X900BattleApple

How is it preventing legitimate customers from using the product exactly?

its preventing me from using it

bought the bloody thing over a week ago from walmart
i get an error message saying the original disk cannot be found or authenticated
mailed atari about it on day one, still havent gotten a reply to that one..........securom has at least tried once or twice but stopped replying to me days ago after sending me a new exe file that didnt work

so here i sit, a legitimate customer who forked out hard earned cash for something that is unuseable to me because of it

[Novanensis]

Originally Posted by ShadowX8m

... Oh well, I guess it's easier to make money selling games that may not be playable (even if you meet or exceed the system requirements stated ON THE BOX), and rip off the consumer, than to sell games that might be copied. Games should come with a warning (WARNING: Protected by SecuROM and may not work your system!) so that we know which games not to buy...

I already signed this petition. And I 100% agree on you. In fact, I think it would be interesting to start a new petition about Informing customers about the protection system used.
The petition would be something like that:

We believe that the customer is entitled to all the technical information needed to evaluate the product prior to the purchase.
Normally, the customer is only informed about minimum/recommended system requirement. No mention is made about the (possible) protection system used.
Since some (if not all) protection systems are known to be incompatible with some hardware, and - regardless of hardware issues - since many potential customers have legitimate ethical and legal concerns on the use of such protection systems, we urge you, Atari:

to make available to the customer all necessary information about the protection system employed for the game alongside information on system requirements.

And with "make available" we do not mean to publish it, for instance, on some web site which the customer has actively look for. We mean that that information should be given on a par with the minimum/recommended system requirements for the game. E.g.: on the retail box.


I just drafted this down, and I am sure the thing could be written a bit more carefully (plus: English is not my mother tongue), but I think it could be a good starting point.

Moderator, would it be possible to fork this thread to start this new petition?

Novanensis

[kalniel]

Originally Posted by Novanensis

Moderator, would it be possible to fork this thread to start this new petition?

Novanensis

Why not just edit your post, cut out the new partition and paste it into a new thread?

[Novanensis]

Originally Posted by kalniel

Why not just edit your post, cut out the new partition and paste it into a new thread?

I will, if I get confirmation that it is not going to be regarded as "disruptive behaviour".

From the Message Board Terms of Service:

Disruptive Behavior - ... This includes, but is not limited to: ... posting multiple identical or near-identical messages or topics, ...

[kalniel]

Good point. I'd have thought a suggestion for improving the technical specification listings on the box would be quite different from a thread asking for the removal of securom in nwn2 only.

[drkl0rd2000]

Originally Posted by ShadowX8m

Just signing my name to the petition as well as a bit of a rant.

I think it's just downright irresponsible of companies to pass the buck on to SecuROM, telling gamers to email SecuROM with their problems, instead of taking responsibility for the problem themselves and forcing SecuROM to correct the problems it causes. Oh well, I guess it's easier to make money selling games that may not be playable (even if you meet or exceed the system requirements stated ON THE BOX), and rip off the consumer, than to sell games that might be copied. Games should come with a warning (WARNING: Protected by SecuROM and may not work your system!) so that we know which games not to buy...

ShadowX

Age old argument, I have been a strong voice all over lucasarts and gamespots forums arguing that by not listing this on the stated requirements game companies are running a deceitful practice. I, like everyone else base our game buying on a multitude of things a large one being "Can my system run this game"

When the stated requirements on the box are met I should be somewhat sure that this product will run on my computer. And this is simply not true, game companies include a protection scheme that ALTERS the listed compatibilities on the box so that some systems simply will not run. However nowhere on the box is a warning of the likes "this copy protection scheme may alter listed system compatibilities". (real world example- how many of us would be happy if we bought a car that lists 30/mpg and then find out that is only true if you use a certain grade of gas...hmmm didn't see that on the sticker) It's called deceptive advertisement, when a company lists the products specifications and then fails to list something that greatly alters that list of specifications and could render the product non operational even though we meet all the listed specifications.

AND has all this humdrum of copy protection really stopped pirates? Nope not even slowed them down(well maybe by a day or two) all this has done is hurt the honest consumer who buys a product to find out it will not work.

As I recall Bestbuys policy is not to accept back an opened software package except as an exchange for exact title. So great spent 40 bucks and get screwed cause you can't return it and if Atari is anything like lucasarts their legal department will tell you to go screw yourself as lucasarts legal department told me when I demanded retail price refund and shipping costs to them for the return for a defective product(battlefront 2) which suffered the famous "a security module cannot be activated"