[REL] Custom Content Organiser (fully working version, but still without a guide!)

[apet08]

Latest version here!

*Rapidshare link*


[Old post]:

Download v. 0.1 here.

This is going to be a very long post. Please, read it very carefully before answering and/or contributing to what I am doing.

I wasn't going to announce the creation of Custom Scenery Organiser (CSOr), but seeing that Wingsofhalo created a thread for a similar project, I think I should do it now, in order to avoid letting people work on something that is already under way. Read on to understand.

Some of you may remember me as the one who updated the complete list of CS sets, before errt and RCT-Spanky graciously took over. While I was away from these boards, I occasionally checked them for keeping up with anything new. One of the most interesting posts was one of Belgabor's in the pinned complete CS list (#41). Go on and read it. The idea sounded great, but my experience from CS (and I have all of them in every single game I play), I realised that it had to be done methodically and in a very organised way, if such an endeavour was to be of any use. So, I started making a list of my own in Excel format.

What I have already done is a list in Excel (which I simply call "CS list") with the following columns:

1. Set
2. Downloaded file
3. Folders in Style\Themed
4. Creator

The Downloaded file column contains the name of the archive I have downloaded from the internet. This may sometimes be different from what you have, simply because the original creator may have re-uploaded it somewhere else and changed the name slightly (or not).

The Set column contains the name of the set, most of the times being identical to the one from the official complete list. When it is not identical, I use alternate names in parentheses, so that if you cannot immediately find what you are looking for, you can always press Control+F to look for it.

The Folders in Style\Themed column is, for the moment, the most useful one, because it lists the name of the folder(s) each CS set installs in Atari\RollerCoaster Tycoon® 3\Style\Themed. When used in combination with other parts of CSOr (more on that later), it's a handy tool. For example (and I'm sure you'll find other uses as well), let's say you create a ride and want to place a ride fence that is not visible from the ride fence menu, because it is cluttered. If you know for sure what sets (containing ride fences) you are not going to use, you may temporarily move their relevant folders from Atari\RollerCoaster Tycoon® 3\Style\Themed to another place on your hard disk, until you finish what you're doing, after which you may put them back. Some people prefer to only install what they are going to use for each park, but the ones I had in mind when creating the CSOr were those who have all CS installed and just want to pick and choose on the go.

The Creator column is self-explanatory.

Notes:
1. If the latest and most complete (or only) version comes from Net-On, this is listed instead in column 2.
2. If a CS archive (column 2) contains more than one folder to be placed in Atari\RollerCoaster Tycoon® 3\Style\Themed, it has the equivalent amount of entries.
3. If a CS set (column 1) has more than one downloaded archives, it has the equivalent amount of entries.
4. If a CS set contains folders and/or files that need to be placed somewhere other than Atari\RollerCoaster Tycoon® 3\Style\Themed (like hotroddude's park Xtraz, for example), it gets an extra entry and column 3 (Folders in Style\Themed) also mentions which place that is.

This list is already finished and contains every single CS set, including the newest ones. It is far from complete, though. This was the first phase of my project and this list will be completed in the third and final one. More on that later.

The second phase (on which I am currently working) concerns a second Excel list titled (surprisingly) Custom Scenery Organiser. This is the really complicated list and a very useful one.

This Excel file contains different worksheets, each for every place in-game where you can find custom scenery. It currently contains the following:

- Ride entrances
- Ride exits
- Shops & Facilities-Food
- Shops & Facilities-Stalls
- Shops & Facilities-Facilities
- Scenery-Foliage
- Scenery-Fences
- Scenery-Walls, Roofs etc.
- Scenery-Path Extras
- Scenery-Scenery Items

I am working on the last worksheet, but all the previous ones are finished. After that, it will include ride events, terrain blocks, park entrances and billboards.

The first column of every worksheet contains the name of every single entry in the equivalent tab in the game, including the vanilla objects. I did it so, because I wanted the user (including me, naturally) to be able to find it easier. Had I excluded the vanilla objects, one could get lost, especially in tabs like Scenery-Scenery Items. That means that, in the latter, for example, there are currently no less than 475 entries. If a set (custom or not) is expandable (with the plus sign) in-game, I do not list the pieces contained therein. Again, this is because I'm interested in the user knowing where to find it; the name of each piece is, I believe, of little importance.

There are several things to note here. RCT3 does not list items in the normal alphabetical way, since a CAPITAL letter takes precedence over the small one. Somewhere in the Scenery-Scenery Items worksheet, for example, the list is as follows:
- Kumali Cave
- Kumali Text
- LG_HarbourSet
- Large Mayan statue
- Large Sized Coral Reef
- Large boulder
- Lasso Larry animatronic
- LittleMac's Vendor Carts
Normally, LG_HarbourSet should go after Lasso Larry animatronic, but since its second letter is a capital "G", it goes before Large Mayan statue, whose second letter is a small "a". I have kept the order exactly as it appears in-game. That is also the reason all of shyguy's sets are found at the bottom of each list, since they start with a small letter. Whenever a set does not have a name in-game, I have kept it in its place and written a description of its icon. The beginning of the worksheet I'm using as an example starts like this:
- [Plain grey icon - beginning of list]
- [Plain green icon]
- [Xistics Water]
- [Xistics Fire]
- [Bowling Alley]
- 1920's car [1st in order]
- 1920's car [2nd in order]
- A-Goodies for Coaster Set, flat part
- AJM+ Jonnyears- DEMON DROP

I will now list the columns each worksheet has and will explain what is needed as I go along. I will not provide notes for the columns that are already explained in a previous worksheet. Keep in mind that this is work that has already been done.

- Ride entrances
-- Custom [Note: yes if it is from a custom set; if not, I leave it blank. I use the same method for every column that requires a yes/no data entry]

- Ride exits
-- Custom

- Shops & Facilities-Food
-- Custom
-- Expansion [Note: this is useful for those that don't have Soaked! and/or Wild!, so that they could make these entries not to appear in the Excel file]
-- Theme [Note: Generic, Spooky, Atlantis etc.]
-- Recolourable?

- Shops & Facilities-Stalls
-- Custom
-- Expansion
-- Theme
-- Recolourable?
-- Working Billboard? [Note: you can place billboards through the shop's menu]

- Shops & Facilities-Facilities
-- Custom
-- Recolourable?

- Scenery-Foliage
-- Custom
-- Expands? [Note: yes if it contains a plus sign and can be expanded]
-- Expansion
-- Theme
-- Trees? [Note: this piece, or at least one piece in the set, if the set contains more than one pieces, can be seen if only the Trees filter is selected]
-- Plants? [Note: this piece, or at least one piece in the set, if the set contains more than one pieces, can be seen if only the Plants filter is selected]
-- Shrubs? [Note: this piece, or at least one piece in the set, if the set contains more than one pieces, can be seen if only the Shrubs filter is selected]
-- Flowers? [Note: this piece, or at least one piece in the set, if the set contains more than one pieces, can be seen if only the Flowers filter is selected]
-- Recolourable? [Note: yes if this piece, or at least one piece in the set, if the set contains more than one pieces, is recolourable]
-- Collision? [Note: yes if this piece, or at least one piece in the set, if the set contains more than one pieces, has collision detention]
-- Conforms to terrain? [Note: yes if this piece, or at least one piece in the set, if the set contains more than one pieces, conforms to terrain]
-- Swaying/Animated/Particle effects? [Note: yes if this piece, or at least one piece in the set, if the set contains more than one pieces, is animated in any way, including animated textures, or contains particle effects]

- Scenery-Fences
-- Number of items [Note: useful only for these items, because of the ride fence problem; if the user wants to temporarily remove some fences that clutter the ride fence menu, it helps to know how many fences a CS set contains, as this information also tells how much space the user will gain by doing so]
-- Custom
-- Expands?
-- Expansion
-- Theme
-- Recolourable?
-- Collision?
-- Conforms to terrain?
-- Light emitter? [Note: yes if this piece, or at least one piece in the set, if the set contains more than one pieces, is a light emitter. By "light emitter" I mean pieces that illuminate their surroundings (lamps, lights, whatever); pieces that glow but do not illuminate their surroundings are not considered to be light emitters (at least in CSOr)]

- Scenery-Walls, Roofs etc.
-- Custom
-- Expands?
-- Expansion
-- Theme
-- Misc? [Note: this piece, or at least one piece in the set, if the set contains more than one pieces, can be seen if only the Misc filter is selected]
-- Walls? [Note: this piece, or at least one piece in the set, if the set contains more than one pieces, can be seen if only the Walls filter is selected]
-- Roofs? [Note: this piece, or at least one piece in the set, if the set contains more than one pieces, can be seen if only the Roofs filter is selected]
-- Corners? [Note: this piece, or at least one piece in the set, if the set contains more than one pieces, can be seen if only the Corners filter is selected]
-- Recolourable?
-- Collision?
-- Conforms to terrain?
-- Animated/Particle effects? [Note: yes if this piece, or at least one piece in the set, if the set contains more than one pieces, is animated in any way, including animated textures, or contains particle effects]
-- Working Billboard? [Note: yes if this piece, or at least one piece in the set, if the set contains more than one pieces, can act as a billboard, ie. you can place billboards through the item's menu]
-- Working Seat? [Note: yes if this piece, or at least one piece in the set, if the set contains more than one pieces, is a place that peeps actually sit on]
-- Working Bin? [Note: yes if this piece, or at least one piece in the set, if the set contains more than one pieces, is a piece that peeps actually throw garbage in]
-- Working Loud Speaker? [Note: yes if this piece, or at least one piece in the set, if the set contains more than one pieces, can act as a loud speaker, ie. you can assign songs to be heard from the item through its menu]
-- Light emitter?
-- Has to be placed on path [Note: yes if this piece, or at least one piece in the set, if the set contains more than one pieces, can only be placed on a path edge]

- Scenery-Path Extras
-- Custom
-- Expands?
-- Expansion
-- Theme
-- Lamps? [Note: this piece, or at least one piece in the set, if the set contains more than one pieces, can be seen if only the Lamps filter is selected]
-- Bins? [Note: this piece, or at least one piece in the set, if the set contains more than one pieces, can be seen if only the Bins filter is selected]
-- Seats? [Note: this piece, or at least one piece in the set, if the set contains more than one pieces, can be seen if only the Seats filter is selected]
-- Signs? [Note: this piece, or at least one piece in the set, if the set contains more than one pieces, can be seen if only the Signs filter is selected]
-- Other? [Note: this piece, or at least one piece in the set, if the set contains more than one pieces, can be seen if only the Other filter is selected]
-- Recolourable?
-- Collision?
-- Conforms to terrain?
-- Working Billboard?
-- Working Seat?
-- Working Bin?
-- Light emitter?
-- Working Sign? [Note: yes if a scrolling sign or a "No entry" sign can be assigned to this piece, or at least one piece in the set, if the set contains more than one pieces]
-- Working Photo Spot? [Note: yes if this piece, or at least one piece in the set, if the set contains more than one pieces, is a piece that peeps actually stop by to admire the view or take pictures]
-- Working Loud Speaker?
-- Working Passport Machine? [Note: yes if this piece, or at least one piece in the set, if the set contains more than one pieces, is a piece that peeps actually stop by to place a stamp on their passport]
-- Can be placed outside path [Note: yes if this piece, or at least one piece in the set, if the set contains more than one pieces, can be placed outside a path]
-- Animated/Particle effects?

- Scenery-Scenery Items
-- Custom
-- Expands?
-- Expansion
-- Theme
-- Small? [Note: this piece, or at least one piece in the set, if the set contains more than one pieces, can be seen if only the Small filter is selected]
-- Medium? [Note: this piece, or at least one piece in the set, if the set contains more than one pieces, can be seen if only the Medium filter is selected]
-- Large? [Note: this piece, or at least one piece in the set, if the set contains more than one pieces, can be seen if only the Large filter is selected]
-- Animatronic? [Note: this piece, or at least one piece in the set, if the set contains more than one pieces, can be seen if only the Animatronic filter is selected]
-- Visible when no filters selected?[Note: this piece, or at least one piece in the set, if the set contains more than one pieces, can be seen if no filters are selected. This tab is the only one that contains such pieces, both from CS sets and from the game and its expansions]
-- Recolourable?
-- Collision?
-- Conforms to terrain?
-- Animated/Particle effects?
-- Light emitter?
-- Working Billboard?
-- Working Seat?
-- Working Bin?
-- Working Loud Speaker?
-- Working Passport Machine?
-- Has to be placed on path

Can you see a pattern here? Going back to Belgabor's post mentioned in the beginning of this post, you can see that much is left out.

After a lot of thinking, I decided to break down the description of a set into three categories: location, functionality and appearance. The second phase I am currently working on deals with the first two. "Location" is about the theme of the set and the filters that apply to it, as well as the place it can be found in-game and its position in the game's peculiar alphabetical order. This can be done in an objective manner. "Functionality" is about the function a piece can perform in-game and includes such categories as "light emitter", "collision", "working seat" etc. This can also be done in an objective manner.

What cannot be done in an objective manner is the appearance part, which was also what Belgabor was talking about. Which set contains Disney pieces or comic book heroes? Where can you find walls and path borders, or even path covers? Ride supports? Chinese pieces? The list can go on and on forever.

When the second phase is finished, after which I will release these lists as a tentative version 0.1 of the CSOr, half of the questions frequently being asked in these borders will be able to be answered; that is, all these questions asking for lights, benches, new billboards etc. That's the "functionality" part of the description of a set.

For the "appearance" part, I will need your help. As you understand, this is a very difficult task and I would hate to go through the sets more times than is necessary. I (obviously) am a masochist, but not that much. So, while I am finishing phase 2 (hopefully before the end of next week-end), I'd like the community to help me create a list of the so-talked keywords that are reasonable and helpful, but only those that pertain to the appearance of a set. The current CSOr already answers those questions regarding functionality. I can already think of several keywords (walls, seats, roofs, windows, disney, china and so on), but I think it would be tremendously helpful if we started a discussion now on what is necessary, useful and reasonable to add. Common sense must definitely prevail.

So, I rushed to make this thread because of Wingsofhalo's one. I didn't post anything there, because it would be rude. Wingsofhalo, if you read this, I thought it would be only fair from me to tell you what I have already done, so that you don't do needless work.

Any other suggestions, apart from the discussion I asked you to start, are always welcome. Again, be reasonable. It's been a tedious work, very, very, VERY not fun at all, but it's the only way.

Oh, one last thing concerning CSOr and the complete list of CS. CSOr, when finished, will always be available as a couple of Excel documents (when it comes out, some of you may want to help me make it look better), so that you can easily use it when playing the game, or even print parts of it. If possible, certain of its functions will be added to the CS list, but only those that are feasible. I have discussed it already with errt, but RCT-Spanky is the one who will tell me what can be added (and easily updated, of course) and what cannot.

If you've read this far, congratulations!

[EDIT: I forgot to add something very important: in the third and final phase, I will also list which CS set places what and where, thus linking the "CS list" file to the "Custom Scenery Organiser" one.]

[-Nuclear Fish-]

First of all, it's GREAT off you to have spent the time doing all this. I've been annoyed how disorganised CS is becoming for the past several months and how few people seem to bother, so thank you very much for helping to get it all better organised. This should really help everyone sorting out which sets contain what and finding what they need and stuff.

So, about these keywords... the sorts of keywords we need can probably be fit into two category's - objects and themes. Objects would be keywords like seats, walls, roofs, particles, supports, rocks, path covers, lights, etc. Themes would be things like China, Disney, Spooky, Atlantis, Snow, Space, Sci-fi, Castle, etc. Something like that. I'll have a think about more keywords...

[wabigbear]

WOW! What a huge amount of work you've already put into this! First, a sincere thank you for all you've done so far.

A couple keywords I thought of are interior, trim, ceilings, windows, doors, and for theme keywords I'd suggest Historical or Main Street

[apet08]

Thanks for the kind words!

Yes, it's been a lot of work, but I'm glad to say phase 2 is now finished! I've temporarily uploaded v. 0.1 at RapidShare, but I'm looking for a permanent host, which must, however, allow me to upload an updated version whenever I want. Which one should I choose?

Anyway, I've made a couple of changes (additions, actually), but the idea and the structure remains the same. Please note that as it stands now, CSOr doesn't help you find which CS contains the pieces you want. What it does, however, is actually organise all your CS you have downloaded. Even if you haven't downloaded all of them, I think you will find many uses for it. I think it is obvious how to use it, but I'm waiting for some feedback before I also write a guide, in case some people are not that familiar with Excel.

I like the idea of two categories of keywords, it will help us find as many as possible. I'm not creating a keyword list yet (here, in this thread), because I'd like more people to say what they are looking for in custom scenery in general.

I hope you enjoy what I have done so far!

[Maverick2007]

There's one thing I'd suggest. If every set needs to be in the excel sheet, an updater would be a great feature.

[apet08]

Originally Posted by Maverick2007

There's one thing I'd suggest. If every set needs to be in the excel sheet, an updater would be a great feature.

What do you mean by that? I am going to update it and from time to time upload the updated version. Is that what you're suggesting? And as I said, every single CS set is going to be included. Right now, for example, I've also included 741852963951753's Wall Set, but it's not in the uploaded version.

OK, it seems some organising is needed. Here are the keywords I can come up with - I'm following Nuclear Fish's suggestions concerning categories. In addition, I thought of another category that is very useful: texture/material

Objects:

airplane, animals, arcades, arch, balls, beams, benches, billboards, bins, blocks, boats, borders, boxes, bridge, bridge supports, buses, bushes, canoe, cars, castle, catwalk, cave, ceilings, chain, chairs, cliff, clock, domes, doors, drains, facilities, fences, figures, flags, floor, flowers, furniture, gates, girders, ground covers, hedges, interior, lamps, laser, letters, lights, loud speakers, monument, neon, paintings, park map, particles, path covers, photographs, photos, pictures, planters, plants, poles, pool coverings, portraits, projectors, pyramid, railings, ramp, ride entrances, ride events, ride exits, ride signs, rockets, rocks, roller coaster, roller coaster supports, roofs, rope, ruin, seating, seats, shelters, ships, shops, signs, spacecraft, spaceship, spheres, spotlight, stairs, statues, tables, tent, terrain surface, toons, topiaries, tower, toys, trackbeds, trash, trees, trim, trucks, tubes, tunnels, turnstile, vaults, vehicles,
vending machines, vendor carts, walls, windows

Texture/Material

brick, concrete, granite, glass, grass, metal, rock, rust, sand, steel, stone, stucco, water, wood

For the themes, I will go as I check every set, but I really need you to tell me themes that are not easily identifiable, yet quite needed (real life park names, themes suitable for multiple sets, like sports, ancient, airport, etc.).

Again, I'm waiting for contributions.

[RCT-Spanky]

This is a very good idea and I'm surprised how far you are with this project.

But don't forget to mentioned, that you also back in the CS-List-Team. So with your help and ideas, I'm sure the Complete List of Custom Scenery will be always current and with your tool always well organized.

BTW: Maybe you can get some help from errt, because the CSO²-Database has a similar idea, but not so many options. But I know, that errt has also a few ideas to expand the list and make it more usable.

Too bad, that not any CS-Artist appreciate this work. I wish they would support us a little bit more with current links to their downloads. It's not always funny to read any thread, if a new set was relesed or just WIP.

Keep it up ...

[Maverick2007]

Originally Posted by apet08

What do you mean by that?

Now that I downloaded it, nevermind.

[apet08]

Originally Posted by RCT-Spanky

This is a very good idea and I'm surprised how far you are with this project.

But don't forget to mentioned, that you also back in the CS-List-Team. So with your help and ideas, I'm sure the Complete List of Custom Scenery will be always current and with your tool always well organized.

BTW: Maybe you can get some help from errt, because the CSO²-Database has a similar idea, but not so many options. But I know, that errt has also a few ideas to expand the list and make it more usable.

Too bad, that not any CS-Artist appreciate this work. I wish they would support us a little bit more with current links to their downloads. It's not always funny to read any thread, if a new set was relesed or just WIP.

Keep it up ...

Thanks, RCT-Spanky, I'm also glad that I am going to help with the list. I'll send you a PM later tonight or tomorrow about the list. I think I've figured out how it works, but I want to be sure.

I think I've seen the categorisation of CSO²-Database, but the main difference is that in CSOr a set will have multiple keywords, rather than be assigned to a simple category. I'll definitely discuss it with errt.

And don't worry about newly released sets. Both you and errt are also scenery makers, which I'm not, meaning I have the time to pester the creators about hosting their sets elsewhere when they are no longer available.

Originally Posted by Maverick2007

Now that I downloaded it, nevermind.

Did you find it difficult to use? ARE you going to use it? Can you suggest anything to make it more user-friendly? You're the first one who I know for sure has downloaded it, so any feedback will be greatly appreciated.

[errt]

Please don't talk about a CSO²-database CSO² is the (old and not very good) programm (which will hopefully be redone soon) using the database, the database itsself is only called (RCT-Net) CSO-DB

I didn't think of our keyword-system for the list, I will explain you in a PM what I thought could be used.

[wabigbear]

Sorry ape08, I haven't been able to take a look yet, but it's on my agenda for today!

[apet08]

Originally Posted by wabigbear

Sorry ape08, I haven't been able to take a look yet, but it's on my agenda for today!

I'm eagerly waiting for your opinion.

[baz6174]

This is a great idea, downloading now.

A suggestion for you: under the Texture/Material heading could we have glass too? There are a lot more glass pieces now and i think this would be helpful.

Thanks for sharing.

[LightGrenades]

I just took a look around, and wow. All I can say is incredible job! everything is so organized.

[coinich]

Oh my gosh, thank you so much!

[wabigbear]

Great job! I can clearly see the possibilities with this program.

The one thought I had right off the bat with the CSor is that I would consider adding a column for the designer's name.

The reason I suggest it is that I, like many others, download most CS released, and I've always installed, opened and looked at the set to see what's there. I have a mental image to go with the set, but I usually associate with the designer's name more than just relying on the name of the set or the name of the individual piece. This isn't a problem if the designer's name is included in the set's name, but that doesn't always happen. Take for instance the first two entries under Shops & Facilities/Food...002 Blue Shop 001 doesn't ring any bells in my mind - I don't recall who created it. Same with Shops & Facilities/Stalls...because LittleMac's name is in his Vendor Cart's name, I have an instant picture in my mind of it and the entire set. But Kiosk (recolorable) caused me to pause because I didn't have a name to go with it until I remembered that most likely is Vodin's work.

So far that's the only suggestion I have, but I'll continue to explore it. Nice work!

[errt]

The blue shop should be from Eddi22's Xistics Modern Art Blue, I think. But I miss a creator column, too.

[apet08]

Don't worry, this will be included during the third and last phase. This is still a work in progress. In the third phase I will go through every single set, one at a time, so that I make sure the only custom material I have in the game comes from a single set, and note down what it adds and where. Then I'll add the creator and the set's name, exactly as it is found in the "CS list.xls" document, thus somehow linking it to "Custom Scenery Organiser.xls". At the same time, I will check (again) what's in each set and assign the necessary keywords to it, probably in a third .doc document. This is not the complete CSOr, just part of it. Look at it as the foundation of what is to come, which is why I started this progress in the first place: to know which set adds what.

[apet08]

Sorry for the double post, but I think it's better than starting another thread.

I have a few questions for all scenery makers (or anyone else who might know).

As we all know, each custom scenery set places a folder in Atari\RollerCoaster Tycoon® 3\Style\Themed, sometimes more than one. Each of these folders corresponds to a custom scenery set in-game, which can be either one or several single objects (that do not contain the plus sign next to their name in the game and, therefore, cannot be expanded) or a set WITH the plus sign that can be expanded (which sometimes contains a single object, but that's irrelevant). I am interested in those "expandable" sets.

In quite a few cases, a CS set can appear with the same name in different places. Romana Asmosia by Sir Asmo (Asmodis), for example, appears in Scenery Items, in Path Extras, in Walls, Roofs and Buildings and in Foliage. In all of these places, it appears with the same name (which is "expandable"): Romana Asmosia.

1. Is it possible that a single (custom scenery) folder found in Atari\RollerCoaster Tycoon® 3\Style\Themed places custom scenery in-game under more than one name? In the example above, the set places a folder named "RomanaAsmosia" in Atari\RollerCoaster Tycoon® 3\Style\Themed; could scenery added by this single folder appear in-game under multiple names? For example, could that folder also place different CS pieces found in the Walls section under the name of "Romana Asmosia Extras" (hypothetically speaking)? Or would a second folder be needed for that?

2. Is it possible that a single folder as described above places both "expandable" names and non-"expandable" ones? With the Romana Asmosia example, could its folder also create a single piece in the Fences section (non-"expandable") with the name of "Roman Fence"?

In both of these questions, I'm actually asking whether the current CS Importer makes these situations possible or not, should a CS creator choose to do so.

The reason I'm asking is that, as I've said, I've entered the third phase of the CSOr and it would help me go through the sets much faster if I knew for certain that, once I find a CS set in-game anywhere under a specific name, I don't have to look for it under another name elsewhere. I'm running my game with a single CS folder in Atari\RollerCoaster Tycoon® 3\Style\Themed at a time, but I still have to go through all the trees, scenery items etc. to make sure I don's miss anything and that has already got very tiring (and time-consuming).

I hope I've made clear what I'm asking exactly.

Thanks in advance for your answers.

[errt]

Yes, all of this is possible. It's just the group setting in the scenery dialog.

[apet08]

Thanks a lot, errt. I guess it's gonna be the hard way...

[Vodhin]

To understand the situation- you can have multiple piece groups (walls in Scenery Walls > "my-wallset-walls" and also have walls in Scenery Items > "my-other-wallset-walls" based on a selected group. If the group option is disabled for a piece, it appears in the master list.

On top of that, the items can be further "Filtered" under a ThemeStyle (all pieces affected) and also in a category filter (wall straight, wall corner, wall roof, etc).

Lastly, it is possible to make different groups (as per point 1) so I have what appears to be multiple sets that actually exist in one common folder. My Cafe Kit does this as does the upcoming Oz (5 sets in one, and that's just the walls).

Hope that helps

[apet08]

OK, I need your help once again.

These are the textures on my list at the moment:

Texture/Material/Patterns
asphalt, brick, carpet, caustic, chrome, clay, cobble-stone, concrete, corrugated, crazy paving, crenellation, dirt, glass, glow, gold, granite, grass, gravel, marble, metal, mosaic, rock, rust, sand, snow, starry, steel, stone, striped, stucco, tiles, uneven, water, wood

The thing is, after having finished approximately 50 sets, I realised it would be nice to add which set has pieces with the caustic effect (my latest addition to the list). This means I now have to go through all 50 sets again to check for this texture, before I go on.

What I'm asking is this: are there any other textures I should be adding? I'm not talking about materials (like stone, dirt etc.) or patterns (like striped), because I can easily detect those on the way. I'm talking about effects like chrome and caustic. For those of you into computer modeling, are there any other effects I should be looking out for?

[errt]

What about unlit textures?

[apet08]

What are those? I've put "glow" in there, if that's the opposite of what you're talking about (those textures that can be seen at night without emitting any light, like the set you're working on), so, if it's not there, that would be an "unlit" texture. Is that it? Or is it something completely different?

[errt]

Unlit is exactly this. Unlit means, they glow at night (which is completely different to my lasers, they are real light) The Neon Lighting Set is made with unlits for example. Unlit, because the game doesn't light and doesn't shade them, so they are allways full bright.

[apet08]

Not knowing the technical word for it, I used "glow", but in the guide that will come along with the full release I'll mention that "glow" stands for the unlit texture. Thanks, errt!
Any other effects?

[EDIT: I've found out there are four texture styles that are similar: Chrome, Reflection, Gloss and Specular. I've got them from here. What are the differences between them? Are they easy to detect? Should I put them in the list as a searchable keyword?]

[RCT-Spanky]

I think, they have a different kind of reflections. Chrome is more metallic, gloss looks more wet.

[Belgabor]

Gloss gives you a wet like effect (governed by the "alpha" channel), but no reflection.
I currently can't remember the difference between Chrome and Reflective.
For the sake of this list you can forget about specular, it only governs some lighting details but no real effect difference.
There are also Emissive texture styles which are a special effect, but I don't think any CS creator has used them yet (might be wrong though).

[apet08]

I have uploaded version 0.2. Again, I will need feedback.

In this version, I have merged the two previous Excel documents in one; now, "Custom Scenery Organiser.xls" contains another worksheet, which is the list of all the scenery sets and where they can be found. Check it out to see what I mean - this is how I was thinking to "link" this list with the rest of the worksheets. It's not finished yet, but this is the final form. Only the data are missing.

The second document (CSOr Appearance.doc) is what I need your feedback on. This, I believe, is what most of the users will first go through in order to look for a specific item or set that best suits their needs. It's the "appearance" aspect of a set description, as I mentioned in my previous posts.

In the beginning is a list with all the keywords (or key phrases) used in the list, alphabetically sorted and arranged in three subcategories: "Objects", "Texture/Material/Patterns" and "Themes". The first one is the most important, so I'll deal with it in the end.

As you can see, each of the sets that have already been included contains at least one keyword in both "Objects" and "Themes". This is not the case with "Texture/Material/Patterns", because in some situations no obvious texture can be detected. (Just a reminder: the ability of a piece to be recolourable is contained in the "functionality" aspect of a set's description, so it is listed in the "Custom Scenery Organiser.xls" document; this part is finished and updated).

Please, take a look at the sets that have been included up to now (in "CSOr Appearance.doc"). You will notice that every keyword or phrase in the table is preceded AND followed by an asterisk (*), separated from the former by a single space. This is so that it is easy to search for a specific keyword. For example, in the "Themes" part of the list of keywords in the beginning, you will find, among others, the phrase "park entrance". This is for those sets whose pieces are specifically made to be used for the entrance of a park, or those that contain pieces that are mostly useful there. If you search for this term (in the Word's search field, you should also put the asterisks, like this: * park entrance *), for the moment you will get these four sets: Custom Entrance set BETA by {Freak}Rct3, Drehkreuz Set 2.2 by Caederus, Drehkreuze / Turnstiles 1.7 by Caederus again and Big Building by coaster-inc. Because of the asterisks, you will not find this term in the list of keywords at the beginning. Now, if you look in the list of keywords for "Objects", you will notice there is a key phrase called "park entrances" (in plural form). Now search for that (* park entrances *). Only Big Building by coaster-inc turns up, because this is the only set (of those listed up to now) that contains a piece that appears to be a park entrance. (If you look for it in "Custom Scenery Organiser.xls", you will notice it doesn't say anything on its being a functional park entrance, because it is not. It looks like one, though, so this is why it is listed so in "CSOr Appearance.doc").

To recapitulate: a keyword or phrase cannot be found with the exact same name in more than one of the three categories of keywords. Other examples are flag (in Objects) and flags (in Themes), castle (in Objects) and castles (in Themes), cobble-stone and stone (in Texture/Material/Patterns) and rocks and stones (in Themes) and so on. This will make your search accurate and precise. Naturally, in the guide that will be included in the complete version, I will explain my choices for those ambiguous keywords or phrases.

Now, on to the content of these keywords.

Feedback n. 1:
What do you think of the "Themes" keywords so far? As with the rest of the keywords, more will be added as I go along, but do you have any kind of observation concerning what's there already?

Feedback n. 2:
This is about "Texture/Material/Patterns" and is closely related to the previous posts. It more specifically concerns texture (or texture effects). For the moment, these effects are contained: caustic, chrome, glass (both for pieces that look like a piece of glass, as well as for those the one can see through, even if they do not look like glass), glow (the equivalent to "unlit", for those who create custom scenery), reflection and water.

The first issue I want your help with is about "glass" and "water". I haven't found any "water" pieces yet (I've only gone through about 60 CS sets). I know there will be pieces that look like water, but, if I remember well, it will mostly be a "caustic" effect. Additionally, I'm also using "glass" for something that either looks like a piece of glass, or gives you the ability to see through, as I said above. My question is this: should I skip this keyword (water) altogether? Should I keep it for those pieces that actually contain water (like fountains, etc.), disregarding thus any effects/properties the word "water" might implicate as far as modeling is concerned? In a PM I was told that water, the way RCT3 has made it, cannot be done with CS; I also got the impression that "glass" is actually achieved with different techniques, so (if I understood correctly) there is no distinction (technically) between "water" and "glass" in RCT3 modeling (or it is inconsequential to try to separate these two). What do you suggest?

The second issue is about "chrome" and "reflection". In post #27 above I mentioned four "texture styles": Chrome, Reflection, Gloss and Specular. I've understood what "gloss" and "specular" stand for and I've decided to scrap them altogether. As far as "chrome" and "reflection" are concerned, however, there IS a difference, although I'm not sure I can easily distinguish them. What I'm asking is this: is it important that I leave both of these keywords and try to find pieces with either of these properties? If so, could you give me as many examples of custom scenery pieces that have either "chrome" or "reflection", so that I can more easily spot the difference in the future? The alternative would be to keep only one of them (chrome) and mention in the guide that this term also applies to the pieces that have the "reflection" property, or use a different term that applies to both. Obviously, if you think I should include gloss and specular as well, I'd be grateful if you could give me some custom scenery examples that could help me spot them on a CS piece.

Feedback n. 3 (and most important!):
This is about the individual pieces (keywords under "Objects").

You may have noticed that this category contains keywords that really apply to a specific CS set only (like "bowling pins"). It also contains some keywords or phrases, however, that are more generic in nature. Beams, walls, path covers, trim, signs etc. are pieces that many sets contain. I have already made some more accurate descriptions for certain pieces.

Check out "walls", for example. Apart from this keyword, I have also included "curved walls" and "diagonal walls". Apart from "path covers", I have also included "half path covers", "curved path covers" and "diagonal path covers", as well as an alternative keyword ("ground covers"). The same with "windows" ("curved windows").

My first question concerns these cases: should I include more specific key phrases for other generic pieces as well? In a recent PM, Vodhin told me the following, which I reproduce here: "I don't think folks will need to search for the properties of any piece, but the piece itself- someone might look for chrome trim. They also might look for shiny trim. but what type of trim will be more important- trim for cars? trim for buildings? Interior or exterior? etc." (This consideration, actually, prompted me to make this post and release a v. 0.2 of CSOr for your feedback). So, what other more specialised key phrases should I put? What do you, people, most frequently look for when creating your parks, that would be useful to be included in CSOr?

The second question is about the interior/exterior distinction. Although I have included "interior" as a keyword, I haven't added "exterior", because it would have to be put in many sets. Although I can understand the need for interior/exterior separation, how easy is it to spot it? Should I simply go with what a CS creator names his/her pieces? It is possible that a park creator uses "exterior" pieces for interior settings and vice-versa. Should I go with my intuition and choose accordingly? (I have already used that in some cases. Look for Edward's Western AddOn (Porch Poles, Edward's Western Add-On) by _Edward_ in "CSOr Appearance.doc", for example. Although the set is about wooden coaster supports, among other things, I've also included the keyword "fences" in the "Objects" column, because I think that some of these pieces look like fences, regardless of the creator's original intention).

So, these are the questions I have. If you have read this long (again) post AND downloaded the new version, please leave some feedback. I really need it before I go on. And I don't mean some negative/positive comments (although these are welcome, of course), but specific answers to what I'm asking.

Thanks for reading!